'Twinned' Weapon Quality: Making TWF Not Make the Treasury Cry [3.5 Item]

[Lix Lorn]

Twinned Weapon
This quality may be applied to any masterwork weapon, as long as you are capable of wielding a second. If you do, then you may purchase a second copy of the weapon, with all the same enchantments, abilities and stastics, but costing only half of it's total price.

These weapons are intended to be wielded together, and as such suffer a -2 penalty on top of all others when used singly, or with any other weapon.

[Temotei]

It's weird that having one really nice weapon makes merchants suddenly sell a weapon to you for half price...

[Kobold-Bard]

I made this a houserule to make TWF more affordable.

-You can get two weapons at the same cost as getting one (excludes base costs but includes masterwork costs and magical enhancement).
-They must be enchanted evenly.
-If used in tandem they act as normal weapons, but if they aren't they become normal or masterwork, whichever is lower, and you take a -2 penalty whole using the single weapon.

So basically you forge them to work in sync, rather than getting a second one for free.

Works out cheaper than yours, but as I said mine was to make TWFighters more economically viable.

[Lix Lorn]

It was the cleanest way mechanically. What it represents is buying two weapons at once made to work with each other.

Whoops, ninja.
Uh. Did you typo in that first line? You can get two for the same price as getting two? Doesn't seem to make sense. DXD

[DracoDei]

I would consider dropping the +1 bonus, and say "WIELDED together" so that you aren't additionally gimped when making standard action attacks with one of a pair of weapons. Other than that and finding a less awkward wording this looks very good.

[IonDragon]

I think I remember a friend telling me about an enhancement somewhere... I posted a thread in the RPG board but it fell off.

I think it was something like this:
Twinned +1 Weapon Enhancement:
When you wield this weapon, a second, identical weapon with all of the same properties (enhancements, and materials) appears in your other hand. Can only be applied to One-Handed or Light Weapons.

[Nero24200]

If you're looking to make TWF cost less an idea might be to make it that one-handed weapons only cost half as much to enchant (E.G 1000 gp for a +1 weapon).

This means that someone buying an enchanted...
One-handed weapon and shield
Two One-handed weapons
A two-handed weapon

...all cost the same to enchant. Plus, in my opinion, it makes enchanting weapons a little more realistic (seems a little off that applying magical properties to a small dagger costs as much as applying the same properties to a golaith greatsword.)

[IonDragon]

If you're looking to make TWF cost less an idea might be to make it that one-handed weapons only cost half as much to enchant (E.G 1000 gp for a +1 weapon).

This means that someone buying an enchanted...
One-handed weapon and shield
A two-handed weapon

...all cost the same to enchant.
That is a very good point, and I think I will begin implementing that in my games, in the future.

[Kobold-Bard]

That is a very good point, and I think I will begin implementing that in my games, in the future.

What about Bastard Swords? Do you get a discount for beig able to use them 1 handed?

[Milskidasith]

What about Bastard Swords? Do you get a discount for beig able to use them 1 handed?

No, you just use Sun Swords instead. Bastard swords, but count as short swords whenever beneficial (if you are good aligned, anyway). They are my favorite TWF weapons.

[IonDragon]

What about Bastard Swords? Do you get a discount for being able to use them 1 handed?

Bastard Swords don't exist, I don't know what you're talking about. We don't take kindly to your kind 'round here.

[Lix Lorn]

Bastard Swords don't exist, I don't know what you're talking about. We don't take kindly to your kind 'round here.
Katanas deserve better. Much, much better.

[Kobold-Bard]

Katanas deserve better. Much, much better.

Oh God what have I done :smalleek:

[Lix Lorn]

Heh.
Unleashed a monster?

[DM-Ninja]

NOOOO!!!!
why would you do such a thing
think of the children

[DrWeird]

So...let me try and get this straight; you're blowing a +1 to get two of the same masterwork weapon for the price of one?

That's a good one, that's...that's great. By the time you could get a +1 masterwork finesse-able weapon, you can afford another one; why is this important?

[Lix Lorn]

For the price of one and a half.

[DrWeird]

My point is, is it really worth that 1/2 weapon cost reduction? Maybe it's just me who'd prefer the +1. In any case, maybe a twinned weapon should have some special attunement; say, unless you'd lose both, you can't be disarmed.

[Lix Lorn]

I'm confused.
What +1?

[Waargh!]

Katanas are just swords. They weren't even the main weapon of the Samurai in the Shogun period...

[DrWeird]

The fact that you could either have a +1 or a Twinning effect; the outlining that a special quality opposes a +1 in equivalency, unless I've been misinformed that it's an equivalent tradeoff - in certain cases. Admittedly, it's not perfect, but that's how I've been told that a +4 longsword and a +3 ghost touch longsword could be found in the same treasure chest. Of course, that might have been a house condition my Uncle made.

My first point was, maybe Twinning should have some additional benefit.

[Lix Lorn]

Not always. This doesn't have a cost, beside that of the two weapons.


Katanas are just swords. They weren't even the main weapon of the Samurai in the Shogun period...
And... the internet doesn't care in the slightest. 'KatanasAreJustCooller.'

[DrWeird]

That reminds me; was that little short sword and 'slightly-littler-than-a-katana' sword they carried ever statted?

Also, what do you think about granting another benefit to Twinning, like I suggested a few posts above? While +1 arguments aside, Twinning seems a bit weak in the current form.

[Lix Lorn]

Wouldn't that be a short sword and a longsword?

[DrWeird]

No idea; I would have just suggested the katana be a curved longsword, but it seems I was wrong, so I assumed the other two would have been statted.

[Lix Lorn]

Katana is a bastard sword equivalent.

[DrWeird]

I guess it is; I couldn't really say, I've never used one in a game.

[IonDragon]

The fact that you could either have a +1 or a Twinning effect; the outlining that a special quality opposes a +1 in equivalency
In my suggestion, you would pay a +1 for a weapon that is identical in every way, including enchantments to the one you have. So you could have either a +4 Bastard Sword, or two +3 Bastard Swords, or two +2 Ghost Touch weapons if you so chose.

Katana is a bastard sword equivalent.
No, the Katana and the Wakasashi were both statted up in Oriental Adventures. The Katana is a Bastard sword that costs an extra 65 gold for no added benefit and the Wakasashi... I actually don't remember off of the top of my head.

[Waargh!]

I generally favor the idea of a double-edged weapon with two exceptions
1) You need 1.5 the price to enchant both edges
2) It doesn't actually have to be one thing. It can be separated. The only requirement would be for the two swords to be wielded by one creature. You can specify that they have like an invisible link that doesn't let you physically seperate them more than a few feet when not wielded to avoid the "what happens if you lost or sell one". If they are not wielded the will have an actual invisible chain.

How to make them linked/twinned? There can be a small fee. Or you can specify that you link them with a mithril chain or another light-but-strong material. The cost would be something small (100gp x something for size if physically linked or 300gp or something if magically linked).

Then you will need some rules to change the make other combinations like linking different swords if you want that feature. The best would be to have a master-and-slave type, where one sword actually has the enchantments and it provides them to the other. If you combine two master swords you could choose one of them as a master (free action to switch).

[DrWeird]

Actually, that leads to a very excellent creative realm, where Twinned weapons share a 'pool' of enhancements, each taking certain ones every 24 hours, maybe. Like a twinned pair of shortswords would have a +3, keen and icy to share, so one takes +2 and keen, and one takes +1 and icy for a certain length of time.

That is, if the idea of them gaining some double-quality like not being able to be disarmed or stolen unless both would be isn't good enough.

[Jane_Smith]

Something I worked on last year. Might help you guys out - use it as you please/if at all.



~~~Masterwork Equipment

Masterwork gives a +1 'masterwork bonus' to weapon attack and damage rolls. This bonus stacks with enchantment bonuses to attack and damage from enchantment values. The physical quality and magical quality of weapons are quite distinct, and both impact its abilities differently, their should be no reason why these effects cannot stack.

Masterwork armor and shields gives a +1 masterwork bonus to armor class, and reduces the armor check penalty by one.

When crafting a masterwork object, the crafter need only to spend resources and progress in crafting based on the objects base market value. Upon completion, the objects value is increased as shown below.

Masterwork Costs;
Two-Sided Weapons - +300 gp*
Two-Handed Weapons - +300 gp
One-Handed Weapons - +200 gp
Light Weapons - +100 gp
Ammunition (x20) - +40 gp
Ranged Weapons - +200 gp
Heavy Armor - +150 gp
Medium Armor - +100 gp
Light Armor - +50 gp
Buckler - +50 gp
Light Shields - +50 gp
Heavy Shields - +100 gp
Tower Shields - +150 gp
Other Items - Base market value x crafter's Int modifier (Max Value)






~~~Non-Magical Weapon Enhancements

A set of armor, a weapon or a shield may only have a single enhancement at a time. Enhancements can be modified with a craft check related to weapons or armor as if the craftsmen was making a repair.

Armor Piercing
Applying this to a peircing weapon or ammunition allows it to strike more deeply into enemys with thicker skin. Against an enemy that possesses a combination of +4 or higher armor bonus and/or natural armor bonus to his armor class, the attack made with a armor piercing weapon is done at a +2 attack bonus. In addition, the weapons critical multiplyer is increased by 1.
Item Value: +100 gp
Requirement: Piercing weapons or ammunition only.

Mercurial
Applying this to a blunt or slashing weapon allows it to strike with much greater force, as the inside weapon head is made hollowed and filled with liquid mercury. As the weapon is swung, it carrys more momentum as the liquid pushs to the end. All base damage of mercurial weapons is improved by one size catagory, and the critical multiplyer is increased by 1.
Item Value: +125 gp.
Requirement: Blunt or slashing melee weapons only.

Weighted
Applying this to a blunt or piercing weapon allows it to strike much harder and deeper, but at the cost of excess weight. Likely given a iron core or studs for the added weight, these massive weapons inflict tremendous blows each strike. All base damage of weighted weapons is improve by one size catagory, and the critical multiplyer is increased by 1. These weapons also weigh twice as much as their normal counterparts.
Item Value: +100 gp, x2 weight.
Requirement: Blunt or piercing melee weapons only.

Perfect Fit
Having a suit of armor made perfectly fitted increases its maximum dexiterty bonus by 1 and reduces armor check penalties by 1, but only for the wearer it was specifically designed for. In addition, the armor is considered to weigh 50% less to determine swim check penalties.
Item Value: +150 gp.
Requirement: Armor only.

Flute Ribs
Having a breastplate, a suit of half-plate or fullplate installed with ring-like rib linings inside the plates increase its overall durability and protection from blunt and slashing attacks. Fluted armor in this fashion gives the wearer Damage Reduction 3/Piercing.
Item Value: +150 gp.
Requirement: Breastplates, Half-Plates, Full-Plates only.

Serrated
Applying this to a slashing or piercing weapon allows it to rend into flesh more savagely, increasing its critical multiplyer by 1. In addition, on a confirmed critical, the subject takes 1 point of constitution damage. If the target is immune to ability damage, sneak attacks or precision based damage, they are also immune to this effect.
Item Value: 100 gp.
Requirement: Piercing or slashing weapons only.

Spiked
Applying this to a blunt weapon allows it to strike as both a piercing and a blunted weapon.
Item Value: +20 gp.
Requirement: Blunted melee weapons only.

Reinforced
The object is heavily reinforced and made denser and more resistant to breaking, rot, rust, or even shattering. The object gains 5 additional hardness and 10 additional hit points.
Item Value: +50 gp.
Requirement: Armor, Weapon, or Shield.




The way this works is, basically, lighter weapons are slightly easier to make masterwork, therefore, cost less to be madeso. You could easily have two masterwork daggers for only 204 gold. so dual-weapon weilders end up saving some moola, especially early game, when they have such massive twf penalties (such as dex-twfing-rogues having to wait to 3 for weapon finesse...).

(Also - this system allows enchantment and masterwork bonuses to stack. And, the way I had it, you didnt need a masterwork weapon to enchant it.)

[lesser_minion]

I believe when I did this, I pegged it as 2,000 gp to bond two weapons and make the bond itself able to be enchanted (where whatever magic item qualities you add apply to both weapons).

I also added a "counts as light or one-handed, whichever is more beneficial for any given interaction", so you can use power attack with both weapons.

However, I actually quite like the "half price to enchant a light or one-handed weapon".