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View Full Version : Choosing sorcerer spells known for buffing a familiar.



realbombchu
2010-08-28, 09:34 PM
I would like to make a 20th-level human sorcerer who has a toad familiar. I know it's a poor build and choice of familiar, but please ignore that for now.

I was wondering what spells I should choose if all I wanted out of magic was to make my current familiar stronger. For example, dragonshape, expeditious retreat, fly, etc.

Thanks for your help. I've been thinking about this for a while, and I want to see if it can work. You can use any book except the BoExD and BoViD. Please mention a source.

Knaight
2010-08-28, 09:54 PM
Is there any reason you are using a sorcerer instead of a druid? Your concept is basically a spellcasting pet owner with a pet who beats the snot out of people while powered up by spells. A druid fits better, and is easier to pull this off with.

That said, if you are aiming to prove this concept has potential, remember that you can share spells with your familiar. So the usually good buff options remain, Scintillating Scales, Mirror Image, and all the other things that make both sorcerer and familiar near invincible. The familiar also needs attack capability, and there are a few ways to go about it. I would probably go with shrinking, attack maximization, and anything that can be done to make individual attacks both touch attacks and stat draining.

Another way to do this that has potential is to use knowstones to qualify for feats that require known attack spells. There is a way to have a familiar learn your spells (I forget the details), which means that the familiar will qualify for reserve feats. It probably lacks the power of the above option, but it generates a toad firing lightning and fire. Which is amazing.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-08-28, 10:05 PM
As a general rule any good buffs that are personal are a good idea since you can share them with your familiar (that is one of the reasons why gish get so much from having familiars)

Having said that Tenser's transformation might be a goo idea first change shape intyo your favorite combat form War troll (MM 3 IIRC) is popular, share it with your familiar, then on the next round cast TT sharing it with your familiar and then dismis TT

Knaight
2010-08-28, 10:14 PM
TT is one of the ones I should have remembered and forgot to mention, but any transformation magic negates the whole toad bit, which is half the reason the concept is worth playing.

Crasical
2010-08-28, 10:22 PM
Animal growth improves the toad's size category for one minute/level and gives the frog str 9, nearly 'human average' 10. I find this amusing since it's still a Tiny creature. It also gives the toad DR. Finding a way to get this spell permanancied or persisted might be a good start for WARTOAD.

Edit: Also, Magic Fang

Edit: WHOOPS. Being a familiar makes it a Magical Beast. Though it just says 'an animal', I think this excludes Animal growth.

Edit: Alternatively!

Find Grapplemancer build. Use the 'Share Spells' to make the Toad a grapplemonster. Have toad grapple people. Use toad to deliver horrible damaging touch spells.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-08-28, 10:25 PM
TT is one of the ones I should have remembered and forgot to mention, but any transformation magic negates the whole toad bit, which is half the reason the concept is worth playing.

The OP mentioned dragonshape, so I guess he doesn't mind transformative magic.

And I say that seeing the face on your enemy when your tiny little toad suddenly transforms on a fearsome beast is worth enough.:smalltongue:

icefractal
2010-08-28, 10:34 PM
Polymorphing is one route. Get some form-changing spells, get some physical buffs, and make your familiar a (somewhat) mighty warrior. Go with Shapechange instead of Dragonshape though. Sure, it can be broken, but it doesn't have to - just pick reasonable things to change into. With a Sorcerer's limited spells known, versatility is your friend.

The problem with this, however, is that even with Shapechange, your familiar will still be somewhat squishy, and unlike an animal companion, will cost you dearly if it dies (Contingency / Craft Contingent Spell can help with this, to an extent).

So the other option is to pick spells that give you a ranged attack option (like Produce Flame, but you'll need something a lot stronger at 20th level), and share those for double spamming. Or for that matter, have your familiar keep spamming it while you cast other things. Off the top of my head, I can't think of too many of these - I'll see if I can dig some up.

realbombchu
2010-08-28, 11:22 PM
Thanks for the great replies so far. I didn't mind the polymorph spells when I wrote the topic, but now I'm kind of curious what I can do without them. Dang, I was looking forward to some shapechanging too. Great ideas everyone!

icefractal
2010-08-29, 12:06 AM
Spells that give you ranged attacks:

Cloud of Knives (SpC): Weak, but it's a free action so you can add it onto whatever else you're doing.

Crown of Despair (Dragon 331): Apparently, all creatures that see you must save or by paralyzed. Obscure source, though, and I don't know the details because I don't have it.

Dragon Breath (SpC): Most of the breath options are made of fail, but Brass and Silver are ok - effectively SoD in a 15' cone, once every 1d4 rounds.

Eye of the Beholder (BoVD): Random effect, but most of them are pretty good and you know what you'll get before you spend the action firing it.

:smallbiggrin: Mental Pinnacle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/spells/mentalPinnacle.htm) (SRD): Like Tenser's Transformation, but awesome! For this one, just cast it on your familiar instead of sharing it. It gets kickass psionic powers (Ego Whip is nice, in particular), you get to keep casting spells.

Nightstalker's Transformation (SpC): Not quite as good as Mental Pinnacle, but still potentially useful. It's another Tenser-like that you cast one the familiar and not yourself. Gives +3d6 sneak attack, and some survivability bonuses. Learn UMD and give the familiar and wand of Produce Flame to toss out sneak attacks with.

Righteous Glare (BoED): Get a fear causing gaze attack against all non-good creatures.

Shapechange (SpC): Gives you supernatural abilities, so you have many, many options. If you turn into something small enough, you can even Alter Self back into a Toad for the style factor.

There's probably more spells that qualify - I was searching for Personal and Range: 0', and sometimes the spells actually list the range of the granted attack instead, or Touch.

The Glyphstone
2010-08-29, 02:40 AM
You did notice that Toads...can't attack, right? Unless you Polymorph them, the only thing you can do with them is stuff like Cloud of Knive. They can't even Disarm/Trip/etc., because that requires giving up an attack action, which they lack.

icefractal
2010-08-29, 05:11 AM
They're not specially forbidden from attacking, they just have no natural weapons and (usually) no way to wield any. They still have a BAB and can make iterative attacks as normal. Heck, they even have a grapple modifier (of -17 :smalltongue: ). But without polymorphing, I wouldn't recommend going into melee.

Project_Mayhem
2010-08-29, 07:09 AM
You could play an awakened Toad Swordsage, with a human in a robe who follows him around.

Tyndmyr
2010-08-29, 07:28 AM
Spells that give you ranged attacks:

Cloud of Knives (SpC): Weak, but it's a free action so you can add it onto whatever else you're doing.

Not in SpC, but Phb2 has it. Consider adding fell drain.

realbombchu
2010-08-29, 08:54 AM
Okay, I'll allow shapechanging again. Mostly because I want more melee options. I think it can work without shapechanging, but I'll try that another time.

On a side note, I'd like some feat suggestions, too. I have PHandbook 1 & 2, DMG 1 & 2, RoDestiny and the Wild, Sstorm, Swrack, CAdventurer, CArcane, CDivine, and CWarrior. Thanks again.

Zaydos
2010-08-29, 09:27 AM
The best feat suggestion I could give is, unfortunately Dragon Magazine material. It's in the Dragon Magazine Compendium and called Enspell Familiar. It gets rid of the range limit on Share Spells (or ups it to 1 mile).

Also don't cast TT on yourself for a moment, Share Spells lets you either share the spell in which case it ends on you both at the same time and the toad if it gets further than 5-ft from you; or you can cast it on your familiar instead and they get the full effects. Enspell Familiar lets you do both from 1 mile instead of 5-ft (I made a wizard with it and, by DM suggestion, a pixie familiar who could have contributed to combat quite effectively from a cave 3/4ths of a mile away via Empathic Link, and Draconic Polymorph).

There are some familiar feats in PHBII but I'm not sure if any of them are good.

Spells there's Augment Familiar from the SpC (might be Enhance Familiar, it's the Lv 3 spell; both are in there) which gives it a slew of enhancement bonuses to ability scores and some other bonuses and is hours per level which can be rather nice if you have a combat familiar (although not necessarily worth a sorcerer's spell known).

The Glyphstone
2010-08-29, 12:31 PM
They're not specially forbidden from attacking, they just have no natural weapons and (usually) no way to wield any. They still have a BAB and can make iterative attacks as normal. Heck, they even have a grapple modifier (of -17 :smalltongue: ). But without polymorphing, I wouldn't recommend going into melee.

True. So let's add Bite of the X spells to the thing, so they get natural weapons and can fight or grapple or whatever.

ericgrau
2010-08-29, 12:55 PM
While familiars aren't as good as a pet as a target for spells, they are great for delivering many better spells that familiars don't have access to. Magic circle against evil is one of my favorites either as a beacon to buff the whole party or to be the guy who doesn't attack to hold a summoned enemy at bay. He can also deliver touch spells for you and acts as a decent polymorph target, rather than polymorphing yourself and risking your own neck in melee. That said the party melee is a better polymorph target than yourself or your familiar. I prefer the first two options instead. Utility wise he can also make a decent scout and so on. That's why flying familiars or rat familiars; they have a climb speed, swim speed and decent bonuses to stealth skills. Toads likewise have a crazy high hide modifier. Don't forget your familiar has the same skill ranks (but not same total modifier) as you, so you can always blow skills towards things your familiar likes.