OOTS #744 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[ThreadKiller]

Yay, first comment!
Ninja'd! >.<
Anyway, thanks for the comic! It was awesome! :smallbiggrin:

[Nimrod's Son]

I feel like Kilkil is staring directly at me for some reason.


Yay, first comment!
Not quite, but it's awesome that you tried. :smallsigh:

[Skios]

Wow, those are some seriously evil dishes.

[HUMVEE Driver]

{Scrubbed}

[Assassin89]

Once again, Elan has been partially proven wrong as Belkar is eating plenty. I also think that the dessert that Elan would be waiting for would be something he would find repulsive.
As for Belkar, there is a possibility that all of that bread might be his last meal, but we will have to wait and see when he dies.

There's also an interesting reference to the Minnesota Vikings there.

[Almanro_De_Nerossa]

New comic! :smallsmile:

Great job as always, it worth the wait! :smallbiggrin:

Almanro

[Darkroot]

So, any bets on what dessert is? Deva wings sprinkled with powdered Unicorn horn?

[Anitar]

Thinking - Elan finally decided to try it!

[CoffeeIncluded]

So, any bets on what dessert is? Deva wings sprinkled with powdered Unicorn horn?

Probably. Poor Elan.

[Lord Loss]

Hehehe. Good puchline. Now I'm hungry (not for phoenix, though...).

[Ricardo]

So, any bets on what dessert is? Deva wings sprinkled with powdered Unicorn horn?

Something mundane, perhaps.

[Skios]

I suppose it would fit with the theme of the empire to have the dessert be something along the lines of blood pudding. Not the English breakfast variety of course, but some sort of red jell-o made from the blood of several sentient species.

[Trixie]

As for Belkar, there is a possibility that all of that bread might be his last meal, but we will have to wait and see when he dies.

Given how easy it was for him to take it from a group of people, not likely :smalltongue:

By the way, what 'repeat on me'?

[TerrickTerran]

Phoenix..pegasus...yeah this is why I'd never want to be too rich as an adventurer.:smallbiggrin:

Typical Belkar and Roy as well. I'm looking forward to see where that part is going.

[Cybertoy00]

Given how easy it was for him to take it from a group of people, not likely :smalltongue:

By the way, what 'repeat on me'?

I think what he means is that the meal is gonna give him indegestion. Or cause one heckuva belch.

Anyway, I wonder what Vaarsuvius is doing? taking V's meal in the library or something? Doing hier own research on the sly? Taking Blackwing out for a walk- I mean, fly?

[Klytus]

:elan: "I was just thinking. It's this new thing I've been trying."

Awesome! :)

[Zuan]

I just love drunk Haley, she's so cute. x3

Also, Kilik is just scary in the first panel. D:

[Tundar]

Haley is looking more and more dashing in that outfit.

Pegasus flank? Interesting dish.

[ferrodoxin]

Did Elan just let Tarquin know he is associated with our favorite gladiators or was that speech baloon mistake?

[Klev]

Phoenix and Pegasus, for those that don't know D&D two Good sided creatures. I wonder what is for dessert, probably Gold and Silver dragon eggs ? :smallbiggrin:

[KenderWizard]

Given how easy it was for him to take it from a group of people, not likely :smalltongue:

By the way, what 'repeat on me'?


I think what he means is that the meal is gonna give him indegestion. Or cause one heckuva belch.


I thought it was a pun because your food can "repeat on you" and phoenixes are said to never die, but to burst into flames and then be reborn, so they repeat their lifespan!

Drunk Haley is both hilarious and good at holding her drink.

[silas the monk]

Who wants to bet we ae seing Haley's Dad in the last panel?

[Tass]

I bet we don't. None of them look like him.

[grimbold]

worth the wait

Hello Prime Material Plane to Elan?

that is a great line

hes kinda in a rough patch now with all this stuff going on, progression from here is gunna be slow for a while i think, but thats okay, its been way to fast for a while now. (the plot i mean)

[Swordpriest]

Phoenix and Pegasus, for those that don't know D&D two Good sided creatures. I wonder what is for dessert, probably Gold and Silver dragon eggs ? :smallbiggrin:

Yep -- I can't find the Phoenix stats atm, but Pegasi are not only good-aligned, but sentient, according to D&D rules. So they're not just eating good-aligned food -- they're eating "food that talks," as that author put it in the "Man-Kzin Wars" book series. :smalleek:

Undoubtedly, someone will still be arguing that Tarquin, Malack, and their ilk are the kinder, gentler shade of neutral, though. :smallbiggrin:

[Oslecamo]

Yep -- I can't find the Phoenix stats atm, but Pegasi are not only good-aligned, but sentient, according to D&D rules. So they're not just eating good-aligned food -- they're eating "food that talks," as that author put it in the "Man-Kzin Wars" book series. :smalleek:


The phoenix's pretty smart as well. And epic CR on MM II. Ok, it's horribly over-CRd, but still quite powerfull, and can blow itself up in a fire explosion at will on top of a powerfull array of SLAs, so in order to get her liver you would need to completely paralyze her with magic. It must be damn expensive.

[KuH]

I dunno, maybe this is just me ... but if I were going to be set loose in a massive brawl with a bunch of gladiators the next day, I wouldn't want to uniformly piss them ALL off at me by stealing their food!!

[tassaron]

Did Elan just namedrop Belkar and Roy in the penultimate panel? :smalleek:

[Kareasint]

Haley is looking more and more dashing in that outfit.


I apologize in advance. The words immediately came to mind and I could not stop them from infecting everyone's minds.

Beer Goggles.

That is one expensive dinner because you know that the Phoenix did not give up its liver willing. Pegasi are difficult to catch also. Looking forward to seeing what really is for dessert.

Haley is not going to be pleasant in the morning.

[silas the monk]

I bet we don't. None of them look like him.

The last guy with the white hair looks and behaves like he has been there so long, that noone remembers why he is there. It ay not be a lot to go on, but if you roll back his aging he might well look like Ian.

[grimbold]

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Phoenix_%283.5e_Creature%29 says that phoenixes are chaotic neutral
and dont you have to be sentient to have an alignment?

[nli10]

Some great background character art this week.

Great strip.

[grimbold]

wait MM2 says that they are neutral good.
they are differnt types of phoenixes too,
the one on the link is cr 7 the one in MM2 is cr 24 :)

[Kish]

and dont you have to be [sapient] to have an alignment?
Except when you don't. Skeletons and zombies come to mind.

[silvadel]

I wonder if this is the real reason why Mallack isnt eating with everyone. Maybe he is indeed neutral and the thought of eating food that talks is a problem for him.

----

I wonder how the banquet party would take to a well-timed ressurection of a pegasus?

[Klev]

wait MM2 says that they are neutral good.
they are differnt types of phoenixes too,
the one on the link is cr 7 the one in MM2 is cr 24 :)

The link one is a fan made one, the MM2 is the official bird :smallsmile:

I was reading not only are they good sentient creatures but they can even "talk" with other beings by telepathy.

[CoffeeIncluded]

The link one is a fan made one, the MM2 is the official bird :smallsmile:

I was reading not only are they good sentient creatures but they can even "talk" with other beings by telepathy.

Could you please provide a link to the official one?

[Kish]

I doubt the MM2 is part of the SRD, or otherwise something that can legally be posted online.

[Nimrod's Son]

The last guy with the white hair looks and behaves like he has been there so long, that noone remembers why he is there.
Ian's only been imprisoned for about two years. Considering what he looked like six years ago (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0608.html), I doubt he's got completely white hair and wrinkles by now.

[Swordpriest]

I wonder if this is the real reason why Mallack isnt eating with everyone. Maybe he is indeed neutral and the thought of eating food that talks is a problem for him.

----

I wonder how the banquet party would take to a well-timed ressurection of a pegasus?

Interesting point about Malack. The first indication of his neutrality that I find plausible, actually. :smallwink:

[Xavon]

Haley must be really drunk, she got that myth all wrong. Thor's picture is on the jersey of the team from Minnesota, not the helmet...

[Gray Mage]

Am I the only one that is worried that V is not seen in this whole party? I wonder where she is.
Also is Kilkil breaking the fourth wall or is he talking with the red-shirted human?
Also for dessert
I think it's the brains of a good-aligned creature, we could use an Indiana Jones reference.

[Sengoku]

I did not get a joke, probably because English isn't my 1st language:

5th panel: what does it mean "to be 1d3+1 sheets to the wind exactly"?

(I figured that the out-of-D&D sentence is probably "3 sheets to the wind" and she's probably talking of being drunk, but I'd still like to have it explained to increase the amount of my knowledge of English ^_^)

[factotum]

I'm not too sure why Belkar and Roy have all the bread-I can't see Roy sitting by while Belkar steals it all!

[Dilvish]

I did not get a joke, probably because English isn't my 1st language:

5th panel: what does it mean "to be 1d3+1 sheets to the wind exactly"?

(I figured that the out-of-D&D sentence is probably "3 sheets to the wind" and she's probably talking of being drunk, but I'd still like to have it explained to increase the amount of my knowledge of English ^_^)

Sengoku,
You're correct, the expression is "3 sheets to the wind". Fortunately, Haley isn't in a rpg world where dice can be rerolled when you roll the maximum number on the die.

dilvish

[Darthteej]

I wonder if Malack has already caught on to this :smallconfused:

[Grommen]

I did not get a joke, probably because English isn't my 1st language:

5th panel: what does it mean "to be 1d3+1 sheets to the wind exactly"?

(I figured that the out-of-D&D sentence is probably "3 sheets to the wind" and she's probably talking of being drunk, but I'd still like to have it explained to increase the amount of my knowledge of English ^_^)

The "1d3+1" part of the joke is referring to how D&D expresses random numbers. You are supposed to roll a "D3" (a normal six sided die and take half) then add 1. This would determine how many "Sheets she has to the wind"

"3 sheets to the Wind" is an old sailor joke. Yes it means your drunk. If you have 3 sheets (IE the sail on a ship) in into the wind you would be leaning over at a great angle, nearly tipping over.

Also known as "Listing to far to Port" , "Drunk as a skunk" , "Plastered" , "Hammered" , "Turned to Liquid" , "Loaded", "Plowed", and the ever popular "F'ed up". The British call it a few more things but we can't say those here.

Wonder how many pannals before she issues the international mating call? "I'm so drunk." :smallbiggrin:

[Bongos]

yeah....Belkar is going down.
And....GROSS!

[Klev]

I'm not too sure why Belkar and Roy have all the bread-I can't see Roy sitting by while Belkar steals it all!

Yeah... I thought the same thing, it was weird too see Roy next to Belkar without making him return the bread he had stolen.

[Faltenin]

Yeah... I thought the same thing, it was weird too see Roy next to Belkar without making him return the bread he had stolen.

Belkar has all the bread because he's not only the schoolyard bully, as mentioned here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0736.html), he's the shoeless god of the yard... As predicted in the same monologue, Roy is trying to give his own bread away...

Clichés are prophecies in disguise :smallcool:

[Dr.Epic]

Yay! New comic! And more awesome myths about Thor.

[Ted The Bug]

For once, I really like it.
I thought this kind of thig was long overdue.
Roy could have used another strip, though.
Still, like I said, I like it.
Too bad we didn't get to see some Belkar gladiator action!

Perhaps the next one? (hint hint)
Another Haley/Elan/Durkon dinner strip is too much.
Go Roy and Belkar!
Elan too!

:smallamused:
I see what you did there.
Great strip, I'd love to see some kind of guide to EoB-style home cookin' as a bonus in the next book.

[EternalMelon]

Great strip, minor typo (prime material plan "to" Elan)

[137beth]

:smallamused:
I see what you did there.
Great strip, I'd love to see some kind of guide to EoB-style home cookin' as a bonus in the next book.

Yes! Then possibly the D&D rules on how if makes your character sick...

[SmaugTheYounger]

Great strip, minor typo (prime material plan "to" Elan)
I guess it's just her speech is slurring, and it's more than a minimum of two sheets :smalltongue:

[Trixie]

Yep -- I can't find the Phoenix stats atm, but Pegasi are not only good-aligned, but sentient, according to D&D rules. So they're not just eating good-aligned food -- they're eating "food that talks," as that author put it in the "Man-Kzin Wars" book series. :smalleek:

Undoubtedly, someone will still be arguing that Tarquin, Malack, and their ilk are the kinder, gentler shade of neutral, though. :smallbiggrin:

This argument totally disregards the fact the OotS ate "talking" food before and no one accuses them of being evil.

[Marnath]

Did Elan just namedrop Belkar and Roy in the penultimate panel? :smalleek:

Yeah, but so what? Tarquin and Malack don't know about Roy and Belkar, remember? Also, gotta love how well Haley can talk still even after being drunk. :smallsmile:

[Detrinex]

Where's V? He/she WAS part of the group when they were all captured, but the only elf I see is Polozius.

[The MunchKING]

Yeah, but so what? Tarquin and Malack don't know about Roy and Belkar, remember? Also, gotta love how well Haley can talk still even after being drunk. :smallsmile:

Or they just haven't been drinking like 'Thor's girl" Haley, and are just minorly tipsy at this point.

[HUMVEE Driver]

:smallamused:
I see what you did there.
Great strip, I'd love to see some kind of guide to EoB-style home cookin' as a bonus in the next book.

It's about time someone did! I've been doing that forever!


Great strip, minor typo (prime material plan "to" Elan)

No it's not... she's speaking like a Dwarf, due to her recent conversion!

[Klev]

This argument totally disregards the fact the OotS ate "talking" food before and no one accuses them of being evil.

Which food? I don' t remember any case...

But then again the fact remains that if you are going to kill a Pegasus, and especially a Phoenix is an evil act. Both of them are sentient beings, in the phoenix case is even a renown force of good, that tries to stop evil when it finds.

[The MunchKING]

Which food? I don' t remember any case...

The Messanger bird is the only ones I can remember off the top of my head, and they weren't supposed to talk if it weren't for Vs magic.

[Marnath]

Or they just haven't been drinking like 'Thor's girl" Haley, and are just minorly tipsy at this point.

What? :smallconfused:
That doesn't really adress what I said at all, I think you misread my post. I was saying it doesn't matter if Elan mentioned Roy and Belkar because their hosts don't know those two anyway.

[The MunchKING]

What? :smallconfused:
That doesn't really adress what I said at all, I think you misread my post. I was saying it doesn't matter if Elan mentioned Roy and Belkar because their hosts don't know those two anyway.

Yeah I misread that. I thought you said it was amazin how well everyone else could talk while being drunk. Thus, my statement that they weren't as druck as Haley. Sorry.

[Agi Hammerthief]

can ye believe it? I totally missed the update while checking the other forum posts.

sooo..

cutting the liver out of a living bird for food and BBQ of a usually Chaotic Good creature, must be so much "fun" being evil.

[Trixie]

Both of them are sentient beings

So, killing sentient beings in D&D is evil now? :smallamused:

Huh, if only people here praising not just killing, but entire genocides and war crimes get the memo.


The Messanger bird is the only ones I can remember off the top of my head, and they weren't supposed to talk if it weren't for Vs magic.

Pseudo-dragons in the beginning of the comic, for one. There's also the question about what exactly happened to bodies of all the monsters, especially when our heroes were hungry.

[grimbold]

lol nice
that has happened to me before

[grimbold]

{{scrubbed}}

[Klev]

So, killing sentient beings in D&D is evil now? :smallamused:.

To eat them as an exotic food? Sure.

EDIT: And one point more, if you are going by D&D rules killing a sentient GOOD being is not evil ?

[Marnath]

No it's not... she's speaking like a Dwarf, due to her recent conversion!

Or she slurred her words just there. Hard to tell. All I know is if I was that drunk I probably wouldn't be able to stand, let alone talk with no/almost no slurring. But then, i've never been drunk so I don't know. :smalltongue:

[Acero]

Yea, Haley's taking it a little too far.

Alcohol really messes up your aim with an arrow

[Dilvish]

Where's V? He/she WAS part of the group when they were all captured, but the only elf I see is Polozius.

A couple of possibilities of where V is. One, V is already past 1d3 + 1 sheets to the wind and is passed out. Two, V ate the phoenix pate and had a bad reaction to it. Perhaps the arcane energies flowing through V's stomach reacted with the phoenix in the pate. "Where's the elf that was with us?" "He's bazooka-barfing in the bathroom." "KA-BOOM!" :smallbiggrin:

[Sengoku]

The "1d3+1" part of the joke is referring to how D&D expresses random numbers. You are supposed to roll a "D3" (a normal six sided die and take half) then add 1. This would determine how many "Sheets she has to the wind"

"3 sheets to the Wind" is an old sailor joke. Yes it means your drunk. If you have 3 sheets (IE the sail on a ship) in into the wind you would be leaning over at a great angle, nearly tipping over.

Also known as "Listing to far to Port" , "Drunk as a skunk" , "Plastered" , "Hammered" , "Turned to Liquid" , "Loaded", "Plowed", and the ever popular "F'ed up". The British call it a few more things but we can't say those here.

Wonder how many pannals before she issues the international mating call? "I'm so drunk." :smallbiggrin:

Thank you for the detailed explanation :smallsmile:, it is always interesting to learn foreign disco slang ^_^.

The day I'll hear an 'international mating call' from a babe as beautiful as Haley, I'll think I'll convert to the first God I have in mind :smallwink:

Elan is lucky, for some things :smalltongue:

[Gray Mage]

A couple of possibilities of where V is. One, V is already past 1d3 + 1 sheets to the wind and is passed out. Two, V ate the phoenix pate and had a bad reaction to it. Perhaps the arcane energies flowing through V's stomach reacted with the phoenix in the pate. "Where's the elf that was with us?" "He's bazooka-barfing in the bathroom." "KA-BOOM!" :smallbiggrin:

She didn't show up once in the entire party, not even when Haley and Elan arrived. The pâté was being served in panel one, so 2 is unlikely.

[busterswd]

Is it my failing eyes or does anyone else find the whisper text a bit hard to read?

[Crisis21]

I always wondered what evil empires served at their banquets.

[Kish]

Pseudo-dragons in the beginning of the comic, for one.

What? Where?

There's also the question about what exactly happened to bodies of all the monsters, especially when our heroes were hungry.
...There is a slight difference between, "We've seen them eat sapient food before" and, "We've seen them kill sapients before, and I assume they ate them, and you all should assume that too."

[Nimrod's Son]

Pseudo-dragons in the beginning of the comic, for one.
These? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0099.html) There's nothing to suggest that they could talk.


There's also the question about what exactly happened to bodies of all the monsters, especially when our heroes were hungry.
So just because they ate those big worm-things, it automatically follows that they ate goblins and ogres too? Bit of a leap, if you ask me.

[Gift Jeraff]

There's also the question about what exactly happened to bodies of all the monsters, especially when our heroes were hungry.
They have a cleric. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/createFoodAndWater.htm) Hunger shouldn't be a problem.

That's also the biggest stretch to get a point across I have ever seen. Ever.

[Stmr5000]

w00000t that post just made me a halfling in the playground.
w0000000000000000000000000000000t!!!!!
im still pathetic yay!

All this time, and you still don't know they'res an edit button. Yay!

Anyway, comic was funny, but lacked our favorite elf, and a distinct lack of Dragoons charging down a hill. Still loved it though.

[Bongos]

"Thinking" a new thing Elan has been trying huh?

[Elfin]

That last panel earns a definite "yuck". :smallyuk:

[Trixie]

So just because they ate those big worms things, it automatically follows that they ate goblins and ogres too? Bit of a leap, if you ask me.

Funny about that - remember certain fleet lacking supplies that was constantly attacked by monsters? I wonder where fish-like monsters ended up, even these talking... :smalltongue:

[silvadel]

Anyone else think that if belkar survives, that he will be upset at missing the phoenix patte and even worse missing out on the pegasus flank even if it used too much seasoning for his refined pallette?

[Klev]

Funny about that - remember certain fleet lacking supplies that was constantly attacked by monsters? I wonder where fish-like monsters ended up, even these talking... :smalltongue:

They dumped (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0507.html) them overboard... :smallsigh:

[Marnath]

I'm drawing a blank, when have we seen them eat sapient food?

[Rotipher]

The "1d3+1" part of the joke is referring to how D&D expresses random numbers. You are supposed to roll a "D3" (a normal six sided die and take half) then add 1. This would determine how many "Sheets she has to the wind"

The average of "1d3+1" being 3, of course. It might be a two-way joke: not just a gag about how D&D die rolls work, but also a parody of how D&D tends to default to die-rolling even when it's not necessary or appropriate (e.g. if Haley keeps guzzling beer all through dinner, of course she's gonna get sloshed).

[Rotipher]

One, V is already past 1d3 + 1 sheets to the wind and is passed out. Two, V ate the phoenix pate and had a bad reaction to it. Perhaps the arcane energies flowing through V's stomach reacted with the phoenix in the pate. "Where's the elf that was with us?" "He's bazooka-barfing in the bathroom." "KA-BOOM!" :smallbiggrin:

Or three, Tarquin's not dumb enough to let someone as intelligent as V join them for dinner, lest the elf pick up more information from the Imperials' own conversations than Tarquin gets from Elan's boneheaded remarks.

[Kish]

Funny about that - remember certain fleet lacking supplies that was constantly attacked by monsters?
What part of "they have at least one cleric" was unclear the first time Gift Jeraff said it?

[the_tick_rules]

Belkar, how unsurprising of you.

[yermajesty]

Does anyone else find the idea of pegasus flank exciting?

Why do i get the feeling that you are all looking at me funny?

[Trixie]

What part of "they have at least one cleric" was unclear the first time Gift Jeraff said it?

Haley already proven both of you wrong (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0524.html), mister :smallamused:

[yermajesty]

I'm drawing a blank, when have we seen them eat sapient food?

what the hell does "sapient" mean anyways?

do you guys maybe mean sentient?

[Marnath]

Let me Google that for you. (http://lmgtfy.com/)

Forgive my sarcasm. :smallsmile:

[Gift Jeraff]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=define%3Asapient (EDIT: Ninja'd. What are the odds? :smallbiggrin:)

Haley already proven both of you wrong (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0524.html), mister :smallamused:
What exactly are you arguing? First it was "the Order might eat the sapient beings they kill when they get hungry." Durkon can cast Create Food and Water. Then it was "the Azurite fleet got rid of the charmed sapient beings' corpses by eating them." It was clearly shown that they toss them, plus Durkon is still there and can still cast Create Food and Water. Now it's "the Resistance has a food shortage and lacks clerics capable of casting Create Food and Water." Whuh? I mean, wouldn't the fact that they have a food shortage mean they probably don't eat the hobgoblins they kill?

[AtopTheMountain]

what the hell does "sapient" mean anyways?

do you guys maybe mean sentient?

Sapient and sentient are two very different things.

Sentience is the ability to feel or perceive. Sapience is the ability to think or reason. So humans are both sentient and sapient; other animals are only sentient.

EDIT: And, of course, ninja'd twice. This seems to happen to me a lot recently...

[Klev]

Haley already proven both of you wrong (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0524.html), mister :smallamused:

You mentioned the fleet, where they have Durkon, with certainly have access to 3rd level spells so they wouldn't have any problem with food. Now you are going to the Resistance ???

Could you at least say where exactly did any of the order eat a sentient being or are you going to suggest every single event in the comic ? :smallbiggrin:

Edit: Ninja'd by Gift Jeraff! And good point about the fact they have a food shortage shows that they don't eat Hobglobins.

[yermajesty]

:redface:oh ok

thanks meathead

anyways, horses get turned into glue, reindeer get turned into stew, so why should anyone have a problem with killing things and eating them? its better than not using their corpses. there is a section of hell reserved for those who waste food, and another for those that dont read books. im not getting in to either of them.

[AtopTheMountain]

A couple of possibilities of where V is. One, V is already past 1d3 + 1 sheets to the wind and is passed out. Two, V ate the phoenix pate and had a bad reaction to it. Perhaps the arcane energies flowing through V's stomach reacted with the phoenix in the pate. "Where's the elf that was with us?" "He's bazooka-barfing in the bathroom." "KA-BOOM!" :smallbiggrin:

The entire table/room isn't shown. You can see part of another chair, and the table continues past that. V is probably just farther down for whatever reason.

[Marnath]

I'm thinking the reason that he isn't citing a specific instance to back his theory up is that it NEVER HAPPENED. I can't find a single instance of the OoTS eating anything sapient.

[Ricardo]

First panel reminds me of a da Vinci painting.

[Trixie]

What exactly are you arguing? First it was "the Order might eat the sentient beings they kill when they get hungry." Durkon can cast Create Food and Water.

Except there's a precedence of Order eating said monsters and zero precedence of him ever casting Create Food, despite us observing Order camping a lot of times.

The burden of proof he ever casted it lies on you side, sadly.


Then it was "the Azurite fleet got rid of the charmed sentient beings' corpses by eating them." It was clearly shown that they toss them, plus Durkon is still there and can still cast Create Food and Water.

Yeah, right, and how exactly is he going to feed all of them? Am I the only one who actually read the spell? At best, 40 persons per casting, for tens of thousands? On a fleet lacking resources? What? :smallamused:

Somehow, people here defending someone they like always assume said person can do no wrong, has infinitely many spells to cast, and infinite time to think. Oh, and is never a hypocrite.


Now it's "the Resistance has a food shortage and lacks clerics capable of casting Create Food and Water." Whuh? I mean, wouldn't the fact that they have a food shortage mean they probably don't eat the hobgoblins they kill?

Goblins, no, but any sentient monsters they happen to have with them? :smallamused:

Ok, I'll bite - how the resistance fed themselves without any magic whatsoever? You can't raid for food for that many people with any frequency if you want to remain hidden.

[Da Beast]

Woot, Minnesota represent!

You'd think Roy would keep Belkar under control a bit. Wasn't that the whole point of keeping him around in the first place?

[Kish]

Haley already proven both of you wrong (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0524.html), mister :smallamused:
...You mean, by being told, "If we had access to third-level spells like Dispel Magic, our food shortage would be easily solvable"?

So she proved us wrong by...an NPC lampshading the fact that the fleet, which has Durkon, is unlikely to be driven to eating monster corpses?


Except there's a precedence of Order eating said monsters

Your claim that the Order is established as having eaten sapients was incorrect. The spinning you're doing to avoid admitting that passed "ridiculous" a number of posts ago.

[Marnath]

Except there's a precedence of Order eating said monsters and zero precedence of him ever casting Create Food, despite us observing Order camping a lot of times.

The burden of proof he ever casted it lies on you side, sadly.
You still haven't shown us any precedence for them eating sapient creatures. The burden of proof is on you.



Yeah, right, and how exactly is he going to feed all of them? Am I the only one who actually read the spell? At best, 40 persons per casting, for tens of thousands? On a fleet lacking resources? What? :smallamused:

I'm pretty sure they pulled in supplies at ports. Panel 4, second page. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0501.html)





Goblins, no, but any sentient monsters they happen to have with them? :smallamused:

Ok, I'll bite - how the resistance fed themselves without any magic whatsoever? You can't raid for food for that many people with any frequency if you want to remain hidden.

It was a city of tens or hundreds of thousands. A couple hundred should have no trouble raiding for food.


*edit @ ^: They didn't eat the chimera....

[Klev]

Except there's a precedence of Order eating said monsters and zero precedence of him ever casting Create Food, despite us observing Order camping a lot of times.

The burden of proof he ever casted it lies on you side, sadly.
Where have you shown one single evidence of the order eating a sapient monster ?

About Durkon, here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0675.html) is a example that he has the spell memorized.



Goblins, no, but any sentient monsters they happen to have with them? :smallamused:

I am curious, but why do you defend they eat other sapient beings (which ones by the way) but goblins certainly not ? What is the difference ?


what about the bbq chimera?

You probably mean the Hydra. Hydras (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/hydra.htm) have 2 Int, so they are not sapient.

[Gift Jeraff]

Yeah, right, and how exactly is he going to feed all of them? Am I the only one who actually read the spell? At best, 40 persons per casting, for tens of thousands? On a fleet lacking resources? What? :smallamused:
They're East Asian stereotypes surrounded by an ocean. Use your imagination.

For someone who uses hypothetical situations (i.e. the serpent thingies may have been sapient and the Order ate them, thus the Order eats sapient beings) to argue a point, you sure do seem unable to imagine easy solutions (Durkon was never shown to cast Create Food and Water, thus he never did so). (EDIT: Got a little harsh here after misreading what Trixie said. My apologies.) :smallamused:

BUT, this is getting too heated for me, and I've seen you debate in other threads, so I think I'll call it quits.

[yermajesty]

im just gonna go somewhere else now

[Marnath]

:redface:oh ok

thanks meathead

anyways, horses get turned into glue, reindeer get turned into stew, so why should anyone have a problem with killing things and eating them? its better than not using their corpses. there is a section of hell reserved for those who waste food, and another for those that dont read books. im not getting in to either of them.

Just saw your edit. The reason people are making a deal about it is that it is generally considered a very bad thing to eat sapient creatures, at least among civilized peoples.

[yermajesty]

Just saw your edit. The reason people are making a deal about it is that it is generally considered a very bad thing to eat sapient creatures, at least among civilized peoples.



...why?

i left, but i just couldnt stay away

[Marnath]

...why?

i left, but i just couldnt stay away

It's not a topic we can discuss here. Do a google search, you'll find all kinds of info i'm sure.

[Klev]

...why?

i left, but i just couldnt stay away

Well, don't you see a problem of people taking weapons and murder a being that thinks and can talk, only to eat him ? If you don't then there isn't much to argue here....

Well I am quitting this discussing as well, but only one more point, if we are going by the D&D rules, the famous "Vile Book of Darkness" says that cannibalism is an evil desire and defines it as the act to eat other intelligent beings for gain or pleasure. So by the rules eat other intelligent beings for pleasure = evil.

[yermajesty]

i mean if youre gonna kill 'em, that is...

heh heh. thanks for pointing that out.

:redcloak: no problem

[yermajesty]

:redcloak: GOBLINS ARE PEOPLE TOO!!!!

[yermajesty]

:xykon: redcloak, are you online again?

:redcloak: ummmm...no?

[Gray Mage]

Just saw your edit. The reason people are making a deal about it is that it is generally considered a very bad thing to eat sapient creatures, at least among civilized peoples.

It's not just that they're sapient, but that they were killed only for a part of the body, and in the phoenix case it was still alive while they were taking it's liver off, which sounds like torture and inflicting pain only for a exotic dish, and that's at least a bit on the evil side IMO.

Edit:@yermajesty: There's an edit button, you know?

[Marnath]

Inside voice please, thanks. Yes, goblins are people too. I'm hoping we get to see more of team evil after this current arc finishes up.

[faustin]

Any chance Haley would meet her father in this current plot (maybe he is another gladiator)?

[Marnath]

Any chance Haley would meet her father in this current plot (maybe he is another gladiator?)

This is a popular theory around here. I don't think the evidence supports it, others do. We'll just have to wait and see. Also, fixed that for you ^ . :smallsmile:

[Zeful]

Pseudo-dragons in the beginning of the comic, for one. There's also the question about what exactly happened to bodies of all the monsters, especially when our heroes were hungry.

For one; those monsters weren't identified, and there was no evidence of sapience. Further that the OotS ate their fallen enemies is supposition with no support.

So do you have any other evidence?

[Marnath]

Another thing that I find telling is that the one instance of belkar, only actual evil pc in OoTS, having enemy remains he claimed to intend to eat was a joke that he in truth had no intention of following through on. Even he would not consider such a thing, and the others were even more squicked out than he was, although he hid that for sake of the joke.

*edit: Wait, I think i just heard a train! Maybe we should take this to a different thread.

[Orzel]

I'd love to try phoenix liver.

[Marnath]

I'd love to try phoenix liver.

Ugh, not me. Liver is icky! :smallyuk:

[yermajesty]

go orzel!!!!


@grey face: yes.

[yermajesty]

i think pegasi flank sounds good

[Volthawk]

Seriously, there is an edit button, you know.

[Marnath]

go orzel!!!!


@grey face: yes.

What he means is, double posting is frowned on. If you have something to add, you usually edit it into your post.

[Orzel]

A Hydra burger with a side of fried kraken would hit the spot right now.

Does the goblin restaurant sell that? Anyone know? Giant?

[Nimrod's Son]

@grey face: yes.
So use it then, eh? This isn't a chatroom.

[yermajesty]

{{scrubbed}}

[Marnath]

In the first panel, the plates on the left end of the table are empty. I'm assuming a slave served their food in between panels?

Oh hi Roland, how's semi-retirement going? :smallsmile:

[yermajesty]

If you think that's just a regular picture of a stormtrooper, look again. Closely.

i dont see anything there.

[Nimrod's Son]

Here's a hint: regular stormtroopers don't smile.

[Marnath]

If you think that's just a regular picture of a stormtrooper, look again. Closely.


Is he the orange-pauldron'ed patrol leader that almost catches luke at Mos Eisely?

[The Pilgrim]

Man, isn't Belkar digging his own tomb right now?

[Gray Mage]

In the first panel, the plates on the left end of the table are empty. I'm assuming a slave served their food in between panels?


Yes, there are two slaves in the first panel, one of them has a plate with the livers, he probably was serving them.

[yermajesty]

i just found out there are rules to this thing. apparently ive been digging mine, too.

@^you wouldnt believe how easy it is to forge photos these days. you could have faked the grin.

[AgentofOdd]

Surprised neither Haley, or Durkon is bothered by the food, but that might be due to the intense arguing they're doing. Hopefully, they'll pick up on it eventually. If Durkon totally misses out on the "we eat good creature" thing and still wants to tell Malak the truth... I just won't be able to respect the character.

Also, surprised Belkar the "I'd go into culinary shock (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0261.html)" gourmand is willing to eat prison rations. Either that's the best damn prison food ever, or like Marge Simpsons sez "tears are the sweetest sauce."

[Marnath]

Man, isn't Belkar digging his own tomb right now?

Yeah, sure looks like it. But then, he's always been that way and he always walks away alive. He has no reason to suspect he might not this time. :smallwink:

[Acero]

Just realized the prisoner Roy is talking to have a pegleg

Nice touch!

[Marnath]

Just realized the prisoner Roy is talking to have a pegleg

Nice touch!

I'm surprised Belkar hasn't stolen that too yet.

[Wonton]

I hope I'm not the only one, who, upon seeing the first panel, looked toward the center of it to see if the person there had their hands out on either side (which would make it a reference to this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_supper), of course).

[Calmness]

Yum. Phoenix pâté must be delicious.

[73 Bits of Lint]

Man, isn't Belkar digging his own tomb right now?
Tomb or not, he is going to be soooooo constipated (just google "Bread and Water," a fun little punishment the navy still retains) when this is over.

As for the other banquet? Sapient or not, tearing the liver out of a living thing while it is still alive just so you can enjoy a fancy dinner is way bad juju.

[Ron Miel]

Ian's only been imprisoned for about two years. Considering what he looked like six years ago (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0608.html), I doubt he's got completely white hair and wrinkles by now.

I don't know. It's a bit more than 6 years ago. HYaley was 19 then, 26 at the start of the strip, and it's been over a year since. Maybe 8 years or so.

Even then his hair was starting to turn white. A few more years, plus a couple of years in a tough prison could have hastened the process. So it could be him.

[Ron Miel]

Except there's a precedence of Order eating said monsters and zero precedence of him ever casting Create Food, despite us observing Order camping a lot of times.

The burden of proof he ever casted it lies on you side, sadly.



There's a lot of ordinary mundane stuff we don't actually see. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Rich only shows stuff that advances the plot, or is funny. He wouldn't show several panels consisting of Durkon casting create food, just to show that he can.

However, Roy speaks of him being able to create water here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0682.html).

[Gift Jeraff]

I don't know. It's a bit more than 6 years ago. HYaley was 19 then, 26 at the start of the strip, and it's been over a year since. Maybe 8 years or so.
She's listed as 24 in volumes 2 & 3, and it's probably been roughly a year since the first strip, so six years sounds right.

[Maxios]

What'd be really ironic, is if all the other gladiators plan out a massive attack to destroy Belkar. Even more ironic if they succeed. All because of stolen bread.
I actually want to know what happens next in Haley's story about Thor and his evil neighbor Loki.

[sihnfahl]

Either that's the best damn prison food ever, or like Marge Simpsons sez "tears are the sweetest sauce."
It's just standard bread and water.

He gets double enjoyment out of it. First, in the taking. The second, even if he doesn't enjoy the food himself, he gets to see the prisoners he took it from cry and whimper as they watch him eat it.

[Kish]

She's listed as 24 in volumes 2 & 3, and it's probably been roughly a year since the first strip, so six years sounds right.
Roy started the comic 26 years old, iirc. Haley's a couple years younger than him.

[Athen20]

Love the comic, can't wait to see how the gladiator match turns out.

[erictheredd]

Has anyone Noticed that the grand fight is shaping up to be Roy vs. Belkar?

The speech about the way things will work says there will be a bully, who will take the bread, and a man who will defend someone else from the bully, perhaps giving him his own bread, and they will face off in battle.

To us though, it looks like the two just being themselves.

[factotum]

Further that the OotS ate their fallen enemies is supposition with no support.


Eh? Elan was quite clearly shown with a chunk of monster meat on the end of his rapier, saying that the fireball sealed in the flavour...seems pretty obvious he was eating it to me! Your other point (that we have no idea they were sapient) is correct, though.

[Xiander]

Has anyone Noticed that the grand fight is shaping up to be Roy vs. Belkar?

The speech about the way things will work says there will be a bully, who will take the bread, and a man who will defend someone else from the bully, perhaps giving him his own bread, and they will face off in battle.

To us though, it looks like the two just being themselves.

No, the comic you refer to says something like that but not that.

The weak person will be defended by a stronger person, from bullies trying to take his bread. That much is true.
In the second part however tou missed something: The weaker person will be killed in the arena, and his murder avenged by the person who originally defended him. This has not happened yet, and we do not know how it will play out.

[keldorn]

So, any bets on what dessert is? Deva wings sprinkled with powdered Unicorn horn?

Well, they could reinstate the idea of a late savoury dish and serve Devas on Horseback. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devils_on_horseback, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angels_on_horseback.)

[hewhosaysfish]

Is it my failing eyes or does anyone else find the whisper text a bit hard to read?

You are not alone...

I can make out 3 letters out of every 4 and have to infer the rest...

[Damaris]

I'm surprised that Tarquin is the only one who gets a special chair, I thought he and Malack were equals.

[Blaznak]

I like Haley's stories. They certainly add "color" to the story! I had no idea how the Vikings ended up Thor's image on their helmets...

[Wardog]

...Pegasi are not only good-aligned, but sentient, according to D&D rules. So they're not just eating good-aligned food -- they're eating "food that talks," as that author put it in the "Man-Kzin Wars" book series. :smalleek:

Ah, hadn't realized that. I'd assumed it was just a "how can you eat the cute flying horsie?!" thing.

Reminds me of the bit in The Silver Chair when they discover they've been eating a Talking Stag.

(I can't find the original quote, but there's a summary here (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=uDvxsQhGgIkC&pg=RA1-PA112&lpg=RA1-PA112&dq=the+silver+chair+talking+stag&source=bl&ots=JMApKvLdeO&sig=GKxQIYY72VaHz8U8KYISE92EESs&hl=en&ei=nap7TO_WJ9Sj4QawuuD9BQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=the%20silver%20chair%20talking%20stag&f=false)).

[pendell]

Hmm .. plot advances, and Belkar is the bully. Nice!

I dunno about the rest of you, but I see a big difference between killing sea serpents in self-defense and deliberately hunting down a sapient being, a renowned force for good, then killing it in a cruel way just to make a meal out of it.

The sad thing is, I was reading a travel author the other day and it seems there are parts of the world where exotic / endangered animals are hunted down for precisely that reason. No sapient ones, obviously, because so far as I know there aren't any in the real world. But there are places in the world where the meat of endangered species is sought, precisely because they're endangered, therefore it is a status symbol to eat it.

Useful to know that this is the kind of environment that Tarquin and Malack are in.

It's definite at this point that The Empire of Blood is lawful evil. I suppose it's *barely* possible that Malack might be some shade of lawful neutral, but the evidence shown so far shows him as lawful evil as well.

Lawful neutral requires about an even number of good and evil acts. I've seen a number of evil acts by Malack (feeding innocent prisoners to a dragon, eating at a cannibal banquet) but no counter-balancing good ones.

ETA: On the OTHER hand, maybe this is what Malack's "Special diet" is about. Maybe he can't stand the thought of eating good-aligned sapient creatures, and so eats a more conventional meal in his room. I imagine the nature of his dietary needs -- one way or the other -- will be revealed soon enough.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Cewlakow]

Are the two gladiators in the last panel Spartacus and Varro from Spartacus: Blood and Sand? :smalleek:

[Chameleon]

Aww man, it's either incredibly subtle, or Rich really missed out on a hilarious 'evil version of the Last Supper' gag.

[binyamin20]

Monkey brain for desert!

[Daen]

Add me to the list of people who'd love to see an OotS mini-cookbook with silly recipes - maybe in the back of the next book! :smallsmile:

[AgentofOdd]

It's just standard bread and water.

He gets double enjoyment out of it. First, in the taking. The second, even if he doesn't enjoy the food himself, he gets to see the prisoners he took it from cry and whimper as they watch him eat it.Yes, that's what I meant by "tears are the sweetest sauce." Definitely an out of context quote, but it fit too well.

[oasisob1]

I'm not musically inclined. Has anyone drawn the staff across the top panel to see what music might be found? I predict a rickroll.:smallamused:

[Scarlet Knight]

OOTS the Musical!!! :smallbiggrin:

[Ricardo]

Lawful neutral requires about an even number of good and evil acts.Is it really quid pro quo, though? Maybe my idea of neutrality is wrong. I do not see maintaining the balance between good and evil is defined by commiting an evil act countered by a good one - but I see how you (and others) may accept that ideology.

I assumed neutrality more as laissez-faire attitude when viewing evil and good. To do so, one would refrain from doing either one - but here is a popular argument: If good is the dominant force, how would one tip the scales back to neutrality without committing evil to allow it to gain power?

To the above argument, I submit the Tao Te Ching could very well be a good source for a neutral character to follow. Obviously, the qualifiers (moral: good/evil, ethical: lawful/chaotic/true) to neutral would define the finer points of the ethos and how much of the Taoist way of thinking is incorporated into the belief.

A principle tenet of Taoism (or, in this case, the fantasy alignment of neutrality in my opinion) is paradoxically action sans action - or in Chinese, "wei wu wei". Applying this to D&D is relatively simple. But then again, Taoism is a pretty deep subject - it could be much simpler to apply a tit-for-tat methodology to neutrality.

EDIT:
Found this on Neutrality from The Giant referencing Belkar's alignment. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=559967&postcount=4

He's defined it as several possibilities - including quid pro quo.

[pendell]

Ricardo, I'm having a little trouble following your argument. Can you explain your philosophy of neutrality using examples in a paragraph or two ? Or is it essentially what Rich said?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Ricardo]

Ricardo, I'm having a little trouble following your argument. Can you explain your philosophy of neutrality using examples in a paragraph or two ? Or is it essentially what Rich said?Yea, it seems like I am arguing against myself there, huh? Sorry. :smallwink: Am at work being interrupted constantly by people who think work is for work stuff, so my train of thought in that post looks to be all over the place - it is, btw.

Basically, what I am saying is I prefer to play/see neutrality as doing neither good or evil while using a real-world reference to the Tao.

Yea, Rich summed it up pretty nicely in about 8 words where it took me ~200 to confuse not only myself after reading it - but others as well. :smallbiggrin: WOOT.

[Adeptus]

Lovely. Belkar is really enjoying his gladiator-school-bully role. :belkar:

[Trixie]

...You mean, by being told, "If we had access to third-level spells like Dispel Magic, our food shortage would be easily solvable"?

Ream my post again. 40 people for casting. Fleet had 100x the population of the resistance. And you seem to suggest resistance ate nothing at all.

Simple math proves the arguments of denialists wrong :smallwink:


I'm pretty sure they pulled in supplies at ports. Panel 4, second page. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0501.html)

To four ports unwilling to help them. During a six month long voyage, on overcrowded boats.

Ok, they might have bough something on the first stop. What they're going to use to pay on the next?

Again, once you try to calculate any numbers this argument comes apart.


It was a city of tens or hundreds of thousands. A couple hundred should have no trouble raiding for food.

With the regularity of Orient Express? During half a year hiding? Gee, I wonder why Tsukiko didn't lived in the food warehouse, then. She would have spared herself trouble teleporting.

And, the only raid we see loses 50% of members to the enemy action. How exactly they managed to cope with such losses?


They're East Asian stereotypes surrounded by an ocean. Use your imagination.

Mmmm, that talking shark-fish the wizard just blasted sure looks tasty. C'mon, we haven't had anything to eat in forever... :smallamused:


Well, don't you see a problem of people taking weapons and murder a being that thinks and can talk, only to eat him ? If you don't then there isn't much to argue here....

Well I am quitting this discussing as well, but only one more point, if we are going by the D&D rules, the famous "Vile Book of Darkness" says that cannibalism is an evil desire and defines it as the act to eat other intelligent beings for gain or pleasure. So by the rules eat other intelligent beings for pleasure = evil.

Technically, cannibalism is only eating the flesh of humans. Or, your own species, if you want to be broad. Nothing abut unicorns in the definition.

And yes, I see the part about killing. Though, it's funny to watch how all the proponents of 'killing evil creatures in D&D is good!' never squick on the 'killing' part, yet now suddenly squick on the 'eating' part. That is, they gloss over the really evil part, and turn their head in disgust on a part most cultures considered to be inherently good (not wasting food, killing only to eat, etc). They're trying to cope two impossible things here.


There's a lot of ordinary mundane stuff we don't actually see. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Rich only shows stuff that advances the plot, or is funny. He wouldn't show several panels consisting of Durkon casting create food, just to show that he can.

That argument doesn't hold water, sorry. We often see them dining, eating, ordering in bars. Why exactly one panel with Durkon shouting (even off-panel) Create Water! would be extraneous?

And, somehow, every time OotS eats it's normal food, including meat, not gruel produced by the spell. Another argument contra.

Seriously, not you, but some other people in the thread always lock into 'extraneous' mode when they try to ignore inconvenient details and ignore piles of evidence for :smallamused:


However, Roy speaks of him being able to create water here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0682.html).

It's actually pretty big support for my side, thanks. Why Elan suggested to take water if he ever saw Durkon create it? Nope, the proponents of the spell just took colossal shot to the foot here. Especially seeing it's the new, post-trauma Elan, who pays attention to spells.

And what's his suggestion to extract the water? Eat it? Hurrr, someone will try to wiggle pretty hard to get out of this one :smallamused:

So, that's six comics so far supporting my argument, with zero supporting the other side :smalltongue:

[Kish]

Ream my post again. 40 people for casting. Fleet had 100x the population of the resistance. And you seem to suggest resistance ate nothing at all.

Considering that you made an explicit claim that the Order is established as having eaten sapient food, I "suggest" that you quit spinning and either provide actual support for that claim, or concede that you were wrong.

"See, this is the Azure City Resistance having a food shortage! See, this is a fleet which includes the Order killing trolls and dumping them overboard," will never equal "evidence that the Order has eaten sapients."

[Ronan]

That last panel is just gross... I imagined parts of skin mixed with toe nails :smalleek:

[Isi]

Has anyone Noticed that the grand fight is shaping up to be Roy vs. Belkar?

The speech about the way things will work says there will be a bully, who will take the bread, and a man who will defend someone else from the bully, perhaps giving him his own bread, and they will face off in battle.

To us though, it looks like the two just being themselves.

This is exactly what I was thinking and am glad I read through the thread before posting my own comment. I think you nailed it.

The Belkster's going down and it's going to be Roy who does it...hard core, man. Wow.

[Swordpriest]

I always had a more pragmatic view of alignments, myself. Leaving out the lawful/chaotic part at the moment, my opinion always was --

Good = trying actively to help those in need of it, and avoiding doing harm as much as possible. (Note "as much as possible" -- a lengthy perusal of history has convinced me of the utter impossibility of total pacifism on a large scale, and its suicidal nature on a small scale. You need to be willing to fight evil when there is no other choice, or even to fight neutral people serving evil ends, because otherwise you are submitting to evil's victory.) Also pursuing such goals as spiritual enlightenment, attempting to improve yourself morally, and so on.

Neutral = not giving a damn -- that is, not trying to help as a major goal, but not trying to harm except as unavoidable collateral damage. Possibly pursuing a cause secondarily, but often mostly self-interested or simply indifferent. Committing minor acts of villainy (cheating on a spouse occasionally, making mean comments to people) or minor acts of good (complimenting people to make them feel good, giving small donations to charities once in a while), but without dedication to either moral improvement or the destruction or subjugation of others. The alignment of the overwhelming majority of people.

Evil = active pursuit of actions that cause harm to others because they cause you pleasure. A heavily sadistic element almost always involved. Getting power for the sake of seeking other people tremble in terror before you, killing for the predatory delight of the blood sport (rather than out of necessity or in combat), enslaving, torturing (especially if you enjoy it -- I can see a neutral character employing torture to get information in an extreme situation), creating draconian, unjust, disproportionate laws simply to force your underlings to feel your power, etc.

That's my view, anyway. By my lights, the Bloodies here have proven themselves to be evil about 200 times already .... ;)

[AtopTheMountain]

Mmmm, that talking shark-fish the wizard just blasted sure looks tasty. C'mon, we haven't had anything to eat in forever... :smallamused:

So there are no ordinary fish in the ocean, only talking ones? :smallconfused:
That argument doesn't hold water, sorry. We often see them dining, eating, ordering in bars. Why exactly one panel with Durkon shouting (even off-panel) Create Water! would be extraneous?But why should it be neccessary to prove they don't eat sapient beings? Or to put it another way, why should Rich put in the extra effort (small as it may be) to write something that serves almost no purpose?
It's actually pretty big support for my side, thanks. Why Elan suggested to take water if he ever saw Durkon create it? Nope, the proponents of the spell just took colossal shot to the foot here. Especially seeing it's the new, post-trauma Elan, who pays attention to spells.

And what's his suggestion to extract the water? Eat it? Hurrr, someone will try to wiggle pretty hard to get out of this one :smallamused:

...Because Elan is stupid? Even "post-trauma", he's sure to still have his moments.

[Darkfyre99]

I can't believe that the "OOTS eats sapient beings" discussion is so going on. I mean, the side defending this position has yet to post a link (or page reference) to even one instance of them doing so.

I mean, seriously people. It shouldn't be that hard. Belkar has a history of wearing the skin of his enemies (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0069.html) and turning their heads into bowls, (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0358.html) so surely you can find him eating something sapient.

[AtopTheMountain]

I mean, seriously people. It shouldn't be that hard. Belkar has a history of wearing the skin of his enemies (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0069.html) and turning their heads into bowls, (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0358.html) so surely you can find him eating something sapient.

From the strip directly after the second one you linked to:

:belkar: What, you don't actually think I'd eat this crap, do you? It's just for squicking Roy out. Do me a favor, don't say anything about it. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0359.html)

[Somewhere]

The resistance eats rice with the occasional fruit. It's mentioned in the strip where Haley and Belkar finished eating the messenger birds that sleep-deprived V sent.

Edit: This (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0564.html) strip

[Querzis]

Guys just leave Trixie to his little fanfic, I dont think he'll ever admit he could be wrong.

Anyway, I kinda get the feeling that Haley and Durkon were too busy arguing to hear the bit about the phoenix pâté. I mean, I'm pretty sure they would react if they heard that a good-aligned sapient creature was tortured to prepare this dish.

[FlawedParadigm]

Which is funny, because I see Trixie's post and wonder how she's spinning these things into somehow supporting her baseless argument, when it's very clear without spin they do no such thing. Trixie should also consider a career in celebrity PR or politics, because she's very good at spinning. I'm not digging through the archives to look hard enough because I don't care, but I know at least two references have been made to Durkon being able to create food/water, whether or not Rich ever bothers to show him doing it. The entire purpose of that magic is to explain why people are keeping fed without the DM explicitly going over it for every meal, so I don't expect Rich to ever waste his time explicitly going over it. Heck, the only time I've ever even played in games that concerned themselves with where PCs were getting food/water was Dark Sun games.

I also wonder how I ended up with a pile of infractions for doing things other people do in pretty much every thread, but hey. I'd better shut up before I get another infraction.

[Detrinex]

Is V not in the banquet at all, or is he/she at a different table?
---
ALSO: Theory that the banquet will have a little prize with gladiatorial fighting at the end, and Belkar+Roy see the other folks.

[JoeSkull]

To four ports unwilling to help them. During a six month long voyage, on overcrowded boats.

Ok, they might have bough something on the first stop. What they're going to use to pay on the next?

Again, once you try to calculate any numbers this argument comes apart.

I like the way that you never mentioned the fact that he actually says "others provided us with critical supplies"

[Tobimaro]

Woot, Minnesota represent!

You'd think Roy would keep Belkar under control a bit. Wasn't that the whole point of keeping him around in the first place?

First, glad to see that one, and I'm a Bears fan. :smallamused:

Second, it's almost like the operators of the gladiator school are actively looking for people like Belkar (that is, bullies). :smallwink:

And Elan/Haley/Durkon almost gave away their secret in panel seven. :smalleek:

[Stmr5000]

Which is funny, because I see Trixie's post and wonder how she's spinning these things into somehow supporting her baseless argument, when it's very clear without spin they do no such thing. Trixie should also consider a career in celebrity PR or politics, because she's very good at spinning. I'm not digging through the archives to look hard enough because I don't care, but I know at least two references have been made to Durkon being able to create food/water, whether or not Rich ever bothers to show him doing it. The entire purpose of that magic is to explain why people are keeping fed without the DM explicitly going over it for every meal, so I don't expect Rich to ever waste his time explicitly going over it. Heck, the only time I've ever even played in games that concerned themselves with where PCs were getting food/water was Dark Sun games.

I also wonder how I ended up with a pile of infractions for doing things other people do in pretty much every thread, but hey. I'd better shut up before I get another infraction.

{Scrubbed}

[brionl]

So, that's six comics so far supporting my argument, with zero supporting the other side :smalltongue:

A wise man once said, "You have to know when to hold them, and know when to fold them."

Just let it go, dude.

[Dancing_Fox]

I mean, I'm pretty sure they would react if they heard that a good-aligned sapient creature was tortured to prepare this dish.

I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread before. But people have been remarking with horror on eating one phoenix.

What if they have more than one phoenix to feed a whole banquet hall with large slices of pate as shown?

How big is a phoenix anyway, and hence how big is its liver?

Should be some guide. Eg 1/2 kg of chicken livers feeds 12.
(First Google hit for pate recipe.)
http://www.taste.com.au/recipes/12132/basic+chicken+liver+pate

Anyway, my points is that if multiple phoenixes, that would bump up the evil quotient.

Hmm. Nastier thought. Unless they cut out the liver and it regrows, and repeat . . . but I don't think phoenixes work like that. Need to die first.

Battery phoenixes - truly an evil empire.

[Tundar]

i think pegasi flank sounds good

I agree. It sure sounds delicious.

[pjackson]

"3 sheets to the Wind" is an old sailor joke. Yes it means your drunk. If you have 3 sheets (IE the sail on a ship) in into the wind you would be leaning over at a great angle, nearly tipping over.


On a ship a sheet is a rope not a sail.

This is a more likely definition

Taken from sailing a square-rigged sailboat; square sails had four sheets (the ropes attached to the corners of the sail) to control them. If one or even two sheets went "to the wind" (meaning flapping in the breeze and hard to retrieve) the boat was still quasi-controllable. However, if a third sheet was lost to the wind, you had no way to fill your sail and were essentially out of control.
http://www.whatdoesthatmean.com/node/1955

[hamishspence]

Yea, it seems like I am arguing against myself there, huh? Sorry. :smallwink: Am at work being interrupted constantly by people who think work is for work stuff, so my train of thought in that post looks to be all over the place - it is, btw.

Basically, what I am saying is I prefer to play/see neutrality as doing neither good or evil while using a real-world reference to the Tao.

Yea, Rich summed it up pretty nicely in about 8 words where it took me ~200 to confuse not only myself after reading it - but others as well. :smallbiggrin: WOOT.

Of course, "an equal amount of Good and Evil acts" can be difficult to define. If a doctor happens to be a murderer, does the fact that he saves lives regularly, "make up" for the fact that he murders people? Is "saving one life" equal to "prematurely ending one life"?

[Garwain]

Oh Belkar, I'm going to miss you soo much...

[Klev]

How big is a phoenix anyway, and hence how big is its liver?

It measures between 10 and 15 feet from beak to tail, and 40 feet in wingspan....so yeah that is a lot of liver :smallamused:

But really it is an epic being, the people that hunt they liver would have to be strong enough to face Xycon...


Technically, cannibalism is only eating the flesh of humans. Or, your own species, if you want to be broad. Nothing abut unicorns in the definition.

Look at the "The Book of Vile Darkness", the definition there is to eat another intelligent being. Unicorn = intelligent being.

[hamishspence]

It measures between 10 and 15 feet from beak to tail, and 40 feet in wingspan....so yeah that is a lot of liver :smallamused:

But really it is an epic being, the people that hunt they liver would have to be strong enough to face Xycon...


It's decidedly over-CRed- but still powerful enough to be very difficult.

There are phoenix-like creatures in MM3, called phoera, but they may not count.

[factotum]

Of course, "an equal amount of Good and Evil acts" can be difficult to define. If a doctor happens to be a murderer, does the fact that he saves lives regularly, "make up" for the fact that he murders people? Is "saving one life" equal to "prematurely ending one life"?

I've not convinced about this "equal number of Good and Evil acts = Neutral" anyway. It's why I always thought druids were ridiculous in earlier editions of D&D because they were the only class allowed to be true neutral--I even remember reading a scenario someone had come up with where a druid had decided to imprison all the inhabitants of a town because they were "too good" and he felt it was an affront against Nature!

[hamishspence]

3.5 has tended to move away from that. Champions of Ruin- regularly doing serious evil acts leads to Evil alignment no matter how much Good you're doing as well.

Heroes of Horror allows for "evil acts done with good intentions makes for a "flexible Neutral" character"- but it's strongly implied (in the case of the Dread Necromancer) that the character must be otherwise heroic- acts like animating the dead, or summoning demons, or turning yourself into an undead over 20 levels, are OK for a flexible neutral character, but only if they're a hero in other respects.

Fiendish Codex 2 is more focussed on afterlife- do enough evil acts, and not repent those particular ones, and, no matter how much Good you do, or what your alignment is, your afterlife destination is Baator if you are Lawful.

If you are repentant, and trying to atone when you die, it's a different story.

[Supagoof]

:smallamused:Skoal Vikings! Beautiful reference, I think Ragnar would be proud. Now I wonder when the subject of Zeus and the team from San Diego will come up?

[silvadel]

How to get your guests to eat horse meat and actually pretend to like it.

I mean what is it with the rich folk -- they eat everything that any rational poor-medium income person would turn up their noses at.

[Querzis]

I've not convinced about this "equal number of Good and Evil acts = Neutral" anyway. It's why I always thought druids were ridiculous in earlier editions of D&D because they were the only class allowed to be true neutral--I even remember reading a scenario someone had come up with where a druid had decided to imprison all the inhabitants of a town because they were "too good" and he felt it was an affront against Nature!

Yeah but druid arent 'equal number of Good and Evil acts = neutral' they are just trying to maintain the balance. And when we talk about the balance we arent talking about the balance of good and evil right in front of them, we are talking about the balance of the world. If one good and one evil people fight in front of them, they wont help the evil one just because the good one is winning. But if good is winning everywhere, if the devils and demons are losing to the celestial then they will help evil.

And the good thing about D&D as it is described in the 3.5 books is that evil is actually winning. There are a lot more evil in the world then good, the monsters are everywhere, the demons are infinite and the devils pretty much unbeatable. As far as I'm concerned, any True Neutral druid in a game about the normal setting of D&D should fight for good because it is losing. At least thats how I see it.

[faustin]

I have a question, pals. Durkon is a Lawful Good Priest of Thor. What does happen when there is a conflict between the "lawful" and the "good". For example, in a nation ruled by despotics tyrants who throw ilegal tourist to the Circus. Which side must he chose?
Anyway, Durkon blindness with Malack "neutral evilness" is more stupid than Elan with his father´s .

[SoC175]

About what they eat in the dungeons: iron rations.

It even has it's own bonus strip in Dungeon Crawling Fools

Mmmm, that talking shark-fish the wizard just blasted sure looks tasty. C'mon, we haven't had anything to eat in forever... :smallamused: You know that there are plenty of non-sapient sea monsters that could attack them? Even so, relying on being attacked to get food is just a stupid idea. They're certainly fishing and doing other things to get their food

[Gray Mage]

I have a question, pals. Durkon is a Lawful Good Priest of Thor. What does happen when there is a conflict between the "lawful" and the "good". For example, in a nation ruled by despotics tyrants who throw ilegal tourist to the Circus. Which side must he chose?
Anyway, Durkon blindness with Malack "neutral evilness" is more stupid than Elan with his father´s .

There isn't a rule of what side, I'd say it depends on the character and on the god. If Durkon feels law is more important then good he could stick with the law, and the same for good > law. This isn't very important, as he'll chose the side in with his friend isn't bisected for public amusement.

[Marnath]

Seriously, not you, but some other people in the thread always lock into 'extraneous' mode when they try to ignore inconvenient details and ignore piles of evidence for:smallamused:



This is the most ironic post I think i've seen since I joined the playground. :smallsmile:
I'm still waiting for a link to a scene where they are eating a sapient being.

[Dancing_Fox]

How to get your guests to eat horse meat and actually pretend to like it.

I mean what is it with the rich folk -- they eat everything that any rational poor-medium income person would turn up their noses at.

Um, actually in real life it often works the other way.

A great many "delicacies" began as peasant or poor people's food, before migrating their way to the rich. My guess is because the poor people had to try eating anything. And sometimes they got lucky and discovered that something apparently horrible was actually quite nice - properly prepared.

Oysters used to be for the poor in England.


Although I take your point when referring to "dishes for the sake of it" excesses.

[The MunchKING]

These? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0099.html) There's nothing to suggest that they could talk.

That thing's huge!! (If not Huge (the size catagory)) There's no way it's a psudeodragon (which are small monsters).

[Urist McDwarf]

Ream my post again. 40 people for casting. Fleet had 100x the population of the resistance. And you seem to suggest resistance ate nothing at all.

Simple math proves the arguments of denialists wrong :smallwink:



You are the most illogical person I have ever seen on these forums, nay, in my entire life. You ignore all arguments persented against you, spin things to the point of them bering outright lies, and throw logic to the wind. You are making one of the most illogical and pointless arguments in the history of these forums and it saddens me to know that there are some people so ignorant and closeminded that they wouldt know the truth if it was shoved in their face ( http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheReasonYouSuckSpeech)

Please click the above link.

[The MunchKING]

To four ports unwilling to help them. During a six month long voyage, on overcrowded boats.

Ok, they might have bough something on the first stop. What they're going to use to pay on the next?

90% of the escappees were the wealthy nobles and their immediate family/retainers/bodyguards. The wealth of Azure City is what actually got away. So yeah they should be able to buy food.

Besides any of the clerics that worked for the nobles instead of the Paladins would be their to augment Durkon's Creat Food/Waters

[The MunchKING]

From the strip directly after the second one you linked to:

:belkar: What, you don't actually think I'd eat this crap, do you? It's just for squicking Roy out. Do me a favor, don't say anything about it. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0359.html)

But that was beacuse he didn't have time to cook it! (or even make decent salsa out of it). Surely if he'd had time to make it fit his delectable Halfling taste buds he would have gone with it! :smalltongue::smalltongue:

Then again he IS evil. :rolleyes:

[Juron Pilo]

Is this argument about whether food and water is needed? You know I'd say it could be either way but one side seems to be acting stupid and its not Trixie.

Its not that hard to imagine that particular possibility at least being partially true.
:smallannoyed:

[Nimrod's Son]

I don't know. It's a bit more than 6 years ago. HYaley was 19 then, 26 at the start of the strip, and it's been over a year since. Maybe 8 years or so.

Even then his hair was starting to turn white. A few more years, plus a couple of years in a tough prison could have hastened the process. So it could be him.
No, Haley was 24 at the start of the comic, and was still 24 as of this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0168.html), so it has indeed been six years. In the latest image we saw of Ian, he was going a little grey around the temples; most of his hair and his entire beard was still ginger. You don't go from that to having 100% white hair, beard and all, in just a few years.


That thing's huge!! (If not Huge (the size catagory)) There's no way it's a psudeodragon (which are small monsters).
I've never heard of "pseudodragon" as an actual type of monster; I assumed Trixie just meant "something a bit like a dragon". And since they're the only monster we've ever seen the Order eat, I kinda put two and two together.


You know I'd say it could be either way but one side seems to be acting stupid and its not Trixie.

Its not that hard to imagine that particular possibility at least being partially true.
:smallannoyed:
:smallsigh: So give us a shred of evidence then. Literally anything will do; we're all eager and waiting.


The sad thing is, I was reading a travel author the other day and it seems there are parts of the world where exotic / endangered animals are hunted down for precisely that reason. No sapient ones, obviously, because so far as I know there aren't any in the real world.
Draw your own conclusions... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koko_%28gorilla%29)

[factotum]

I have a question, pals. Durkon is a Lawful Good Priest of Thor. What does happen when there is a conflict between the "lawful" and the "good". For example, in a nation ruled by despotics tyrants who throw ilegal tourist to the Circus. Which side must he chose?


There is no conflict there. You are making the old, old mistake of confusing "Lawful" with "obeys the law of the land". Lawful says more about a person's inner desire for order--it does not mean they have to follow a law they disagree with, any more than being Chaotic means a person must always break every law.

[Whyareall]

First panel reminds me of a da Vinci painting.

A painting made by someone from Vinci? There are a heck of a lot of people from Vinci. Oh! You mean the painting depicting Of Nazareth with his friends? :smallcool:

Leonardo is his name, da Vinci tells that he comes from Vinci.

[Nimrod's Son]

da Vinci tells that he comes from Vinci.
Ooh, I've heard of that town! They all speak in code there, right?

[Anterean]

I've never heard of "pseudodragon" as an actual type of monster; I assumed Trixie just meant "something a bit like a dragon". And since they're the only monster we've ever seen the Order eat, I kinda put two and two together.




Yeah the Pseudodragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/pseudodragon.htm) is an actual monster, it's a small neutral good dragon, about 3 feet from the snout to the tip of it's tail.

[The MunchKING]

In the latest image we saw of Ian, he was going a little grey around the temples; most of his hair and his entire beard was still ginger. You don't go from that to having 100% white hair, beard and all, in just a few years.

Unless you're living a really REALLY stressful life?? :smalltongue:



I've never heard of "pseudodragon" as an actual type of monster; I assumed Trixie just meant "something a bit like a dragon". And since they're the only monster we've ever seen the Order eat, I kinda put two and two together.

Oh well, yeah. I'm just saying it can't be the creature "psuedodragon" because they are small.

This thing, whatever it was appeared to be nonsapient.So it doesn't meet the criteria of Trixie's statement.

[hamishspence]

This thing, whatever it was appeared to be nonsapient.So it doesn't meet the criteria of Trixie's statement.

They don't speak- just hiss. Doesn't prove them nonsapient- but it is suggestive.

Dire Snake (MM2) seems like a reasonable possibility- big, and aggressive (and venomous). The horns might be a way of representing that it's Dire- most dire creatures are spiky.

[Scarlet Knight]

Um, actually in real life it often works the other way.

A great many "delicacies" began as peasant or poor people's food, before migrating their way to the rich. My guess is because the poor people had to try eating anything. And sometimes they got lucky and discovered that something apparently horrible was actually quite nice - properly prepared.

Oysters used to be for the poor in England.


Although I take your point when referring to "dishes for the sake of it" excesses.

"You want me to eat beetle?!"
"Of course not! That would be grotesque. Here, more crab?"

:smallsmile:

[Swordpriest]

{Scrubbed}

[Scarlet Knight]

:elan: "More sea troll roll?"

:durkon: "Och, nay. Wheneva' I 'ave troll, I'm always full agin' a few 'ours lata!"

:smalleek:

[Ricardo]

A painting made by someone from Vinci? There are a heck of a lot of people from Vinci. Oh! You mean the painting depicting Of Nazareth with his friends? :smallcool:

Leonardo is his name, da Vinci tells that he comes from Vinci.You cannot be serious. If this was an attempt at humor, you failed miserably. Try again.

[Ricardo]

Ooh, I've heard of that town! They all speak in code there, right?

Now, THIS was funny. :)

[Swordpriest]

Actually, I wonder if this whole "the OotS must have eaten sapient food off-camera" is a roundabout way to say that Tarquin and his cronies aren't really evil after all? :smallsigh: After all, it seems to important to some people here, for some reason, that the villains really have hearts of gold, or some such.

[JonestheSpy]

:elan: "More sea troll roll?"



Regenerating sushi!

Watch out Goblin Dan, the competition has arrived!

[Marnath]

{scrubbed}

Lots of arguements around here are based on flimsy claims, it's part of being a playgrounder. :smallwink:

[kpenguin]

The Modguin: Locked for review

[kpenguin]

The Modguin: I'm reopening this thread, but please refrain from belittling, insulting, or otherwise flaming your fellow posters.

[Urist McDwarf]

Okay. Thank you.

[Puppeteer]

You cannot be serious. If this was an attempt at humor, you failed miserably. Try again.

Da Vinci means "From Vinci", and yeah, Vinci was the name of the town.
The full name was Leonardo di ser Piero da Vinci.

Leonardo = name
Di ser Pietro = Patronymic ([son] of sir Pietro)
Da Vinci = Origin

Names didn't quite work the way they do nowadays.

[Laeranu]

:elan: : Oh sorry guys. I was just thinking. its this new thing Ive been trying.

:biggrin:

[Ricardo]

{{Scrubbed}}

[Laeranu]

While re reading the comics i realised something.

Team evil and the OotS arent the only ones fighting for the gates.

Read comic #458 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0458.html) to understand what i mean.

[Swordpriest]

:elan: : Oh sorry guys. I was just thinking. its this new thing Ive been trying.

:biggrin:

That really is pretty hilarious, actually. It's too bad this thread got sidetracked for so long because there are a couple of excellent jokes in this instalment of OotS. "It's this new thing I've been trying."

An interesting question is, though -- when, specifically, did he start trying it? :smallamused:

[St Fan]

Lots of arguements around here are based on flimsy claims, it's part of being a playgrounder. :smallwink:

Which gets really tedious, very very fast.

[Marnath]

Which gets really tedious, very very fast.

I wouldn't know, most of the time if it goes on for more than a page, or a few walls of text, I glaze over and just stop reading. :smallsmile: Like in monk threads...

[rewinn]

That really is pretty hilarious, actually. It's too bad this thread got sidetracked for so long because there are a couple of excellent jokes in this instalment of OotS.
"These ones taste like neck" was disturbing, yet funny.

[Swordpriest]

"These ones taste like neck" was disturbing, yet funny.

Agreed. That and the Elan comment were the comedic high points of this one. I think I'm going to focus on the funny at the moment, because I really don't want to talk about any other aspects of this particular comment, probably ever again.

[cc_kizz]

I just love how Elan gets stuck staring down at his plate. The angle is just so perfect.

[faustin]

Suddenly, this question assaulted me. May Tarquin become another recurrent villain for TOoS like Nale?

[Rotipher]

That thing's huge!! (If not Huge (the size catagory)) There's no way it's a psudeodragon (which are small monsters).

Absolutely not pseudodragons, which aside from being little, have legs and wings.

Plus, if those snake-things had been sentient, why would a trap need to douse intruders in barbecue sauce to ensure the creatures would attack them? You get sapient guard-creatures to defend you by telling them to do so, not by making your enemies taste good.

[The MunchKING]

Absolutely not pseudodragons, which aside from being little, have legs and wings.

Plus, if those snake-things had been sentient, why would a trap need to douse intruders in barbecue sauce to ensure the creatures would attack them? You get sapient guard-creatures to defend you by telling them to do so, not by making your enemies taste good.

Making them taste good helps if for whatever reason the guard creature doesn't listen to you, but you want to llet him live there for whatever reason.

[Belsirk]

yumy.. phoenix wing... better tahn buffalo wings!

and even better, one just Phoenix let you have a infinite amount of wings! (Though asbest clothes could be a good idea)

[Grygus]

I just love how Elan gets stuck staring down at his plate. The angle is just so perfect.
It immediately reminded me of this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0245.html), but the angle is different. You're right; it's perfect.

[Rev. George]

Interestingly, the question of "Tarquin and Malack, good or bad?" seems to have been possibly answered by the Giant himself- see: http://www.giantitp.com/index.html#VsT71uTiudzC1bbhxHE

"Now at the Ookoodook site, I've created a pair of exclusive giant-sized posters featuring almost every character in the OOTS story. The Order and all the good guys live on the left poster while Xykon and the bad guys inhabit the right one. "
http://www.giantitp.com/Images/PostersTogetherBig.jpg

Tarquin and Malak, decidedly on the right....


-+G

[Urist McDwarf]

Interestingly, the question of "Tarquin and Malack, good or bad?" seems to have been possibly answered by the Giant himself- see: http://www.giantitp.com/index.html#VsT71uTiudzC1bbhxHE

"Now at the Ookoodook site, I've created a pair of exclusive giant-sized posters featuring almost every character in the OOTS story. The Order and all the good guys live on the left poster while Xykon and the bad guys inhabit the right one. "
http://www.giantitp.com/Images/PostersTogetherBig.jpg

Tarquin and Malak, decidedly on the right....


-+G

Why would Girard be on the right side?:smalltongue:

[Swordpriest]

Why would Girard be on the right side?:smalltongue:

I don't quite understand your statement, since he was talking about Tarquin and Malack .... :smallconfused:

[mootoall]

The Giant has explicitly stated not to look into the placement of the characters too much. Just like why The Oracle is in Tsukiko's rightful spot.

[Urist McDwarf]

I don't quite understand your statement, since he was talking about Tarquin and Malack .... :smallconfused:

Tarquin is Girard. Isnt it obvious? They are both human, they are both white, and they can both speak common.

[teratorn]

The Giant has explicitly stated not to look into the placement of the characters too much. Just like why The Oracle is in Tsukiko's rightful spot.

Therkla has a foot in the good half! I was going to advance the theory that she was becoming good, but then I saw that there's a lawyer in the left half...

(About Belkar being on the left, we all know that deep down inside he is LG.)

[Kish]

Ooh, a lawyer joke! You should say something about Chuck Norris next.