Neogi

[Paganboy28]

For some reaons I think Neogi are cute. I like their background and their characteristics and their ethos.

However, do Neogi make good characters, I was thinking of a sorcerer or something similar. We will probably be using Pathfinder.

[The Glyphstone]

Neogi are awesome, but I don't think I've ever heard them called 'Cute' before.:smallbiggrin:

They make awesome Rogues, particularly Dwarf Neogi. With a +6 racial Charisma bonus, though, they do make fairly good sorcerers. You're suffering by losing 3 caster levels (yay Pathfinder and making monster characters somewhat playable!), but in a low-optimization game that starts at mid to high-levels, you can swing by.

[Paganboy28]

Neogi are awesome, but I don't think I've ever heard them called 'Cute' before.:smallbiggrin:

They make awesome Rogues, particularly Dwarf Neogi. With a +6 racial Charisma bonus, though, they do make fairly good sorcerers. You're suffering by losing 3 caster levels (yay Pathfinder and making monster characters somewhat playable!), but in a low-optimization game that starts at mid to high-levels, you can swing by.


There is a neogi sorcerer in the Lords of Madness book. I just like the idea of riding my umber hulk "steed" whilst flinging spells about. And if I can get me one of those aberrant HUGE umber hulks then wahay!!! Plus i get to use my dominate ability which is great. Just need to dominate two slavemasters and one dwarf neogi then I have my chain domination on the way and then its up up up...

Though the eventual prospect of becoming a Neogi Grandmaster does not appeal... maybe a Neogi deathcult and become a Neogi dry lich.....

It fits... Neogi like warm places, deserts are warm. Undeath allows me to continue collecting and trading and enslaving more and more without ever having to relinquish it!!! Mwahahahahahaaaaa

[The Glyphstone]

If your DM has read the Neogi fluff (which you probably did) - Magically enslaving other Neogi is a biiiiiiig no-no in their society. Just get them to play a rigged game of cards with you instead.:smallsmile:

You might be able to bargain for Leadership to represent the effect though - get an Umber Hulk cohort and have your 'followers' be slaves, with any lvl3 or higher as Neogi instead of humanoids.

[Lhurgyof]

If your DM has read the Neogi fluff (which you probably did) - Magically enslaving other Neogi is a biiiiiiig no-no in their society. Just get them to play a rigged game of cards with you instead.:smallsmile:

You might be able to bargain for Leadership to represent the effect though - get an Umber Hulk cohort and have your 'followers' be slaves, with any lvl3 or higher as Neogi instead of humanoids.

The Thrallherd prestiege class does that well lol.

[The Glyphstone]

The Thrallherd prestiege class does that well lol.

Thrallherd is also one of the most awesome prestige classes, but that's an entirely different ball game.

[Paganboy28]

Thrallherd is also one of the most awesome prestige classes, but that's an entirely different ball game.

Thrallherd?

All I found was http://www.birthright.net/brwiki/index.php/D20:Thrallherd_(Prestige_Class)

Is this homebrew?

It seems to require psionics. Can Neogi become psions or does that not fit their fluff.... though I guess they could be a subsect.

[The Glyphstone]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/thrallherd.htm

It's a Telepath PrC that gives Leadership on Steroids as a class feature. Significantly overpower, and frankly, not at all the flavor you want as a proper Neogi.

An Umber Hulk is CR7, so you need to be be at least ECL9 to get one (Neogi Sorcerer 6. If you're starting that high, work with the DM to have Leadership as one of your feats, and you've got Neogi in a can. At level 9 with Cha 26 (easy, 16 base+6 racial+4 item), your Leader score is 18, giving you a Neogi slave (lvl3), a Neogi slave with a class level (lvl4), and 38 random mooks.

[Lhurgyof]

Thrallherd?

All I found was http://www.birthright.net/brwiki/index.php/D20:Thrallherd_(Prestige_Class)

Is this homebrew?

It seems to require psionics. Can Neogi become psions or does that not fit their fluff.... though I guess they could be a subsect.

It's in the Expanded Psionics Handbook, and you get a special leadership, where you acquire a thrall (your umberhulk), and "believers". You pretty much just dominate what you want. xD

All I know about Neogi is what's in MM2, and since they like taking slaves, I'd say it works.

[2xMachina]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/thrallherd.htm

^ Srd.

And I'd say they'd make interesting psions. The fluff can be ok.

Their mind control thing fits pretty well with psionic fluff IMO.

[The Glyphstone]

Neogi would make good Telepaths too, now that I think of it...actually, they'd be great Ardents. Racial bonus to Int and Cha, and you'd qualify for Thrallherd with only 1 level in Telepath/Ardent because of your abberation hit dice.

It'd be a very logical offshoot of Neogi thought, now that I think of it.

[Paganboy28]

Only thing is the ECL.... 8!!!


A "no class" neogi is a level 8 character already! Thats mad!!!!!! A level 8 character is way more powerful than a plain neogi.....

Monster levels suck.

[The Glyphstone]

Only thing is the ECL.... 8!!!


A "no class" neogi is a level 8 character already! Thats mad!!!!!! A level 8 character is way more powerful than a plain neogi.....

Monster levels suck.

Oh, if you're not playing Pathfinder (you said you might be), forget about a Neogi entirely, monster levels do suck. Pathfinder makes monster characters count their CR as 'starting character level' instead.

Normal rules: neogi have 5 HD +3 LA = ECL8.

Pathfinder: Neogi are CR3 = ECL3. But still have 5 HD.

[Paganboy28]

Oh, if you're not playing Pathfinder (you said you might be), forget about a Neogi entirely, monster levels do suck. Pathfinder makes monster characters count their CR as 'starting character level' instead.

Normal rules: neogi have 5 HD +3 LA = ECL8.

Pathfinder: Neogi are CR3 = ECL3. But still have 5 HD.

Is there some way of readdressing this obvious flaw in the rules? Monster levels are so sucky they are pointless as no one is ever going to use them. Or is this latter part the aim so that everyone uses "normal" races?

[The Glyphstone]

It's a general flaw of Wizards vastly overestimating how good monsters are. There are out of all 5 monster manuals, maybe a dozen cases of a monster or template's LA being worth it, and they're all considered exceptionally cheesy. I only know of one monster in a setting-specific book that's worthwhile to take as racial hit dice, and it's even cheesier.

Your only option is to hope that PF rules are in play, otherwise you're pretty much out of luck.

[Paganboy28]

It's a general flaw of Wizards vastly overestimating how good monsters are. There are out of all 5 monster manuals, maybe a dozen cases of a monster or template's LA being worth it, and they're all considered exceptionally cheesy. I only know of one monster in a setting-specific book that's worthwhile to take as racial hit dice, and it's even cheesier.

Your only option is to hope that PF rules are in play, otherwise you're pretty much out of luck.

Hmm poop. Well fingers crossed. Also, do you know where in PF rules it states that its the CR and not the LA?

Have neogi been updated in the PF monster bestiary?

[The Glyphstone]

On the pathfinder SRD online, under Monsters as PC's. Neogi are not in the beastiary, though, because they're WotC product identify (as are the Umber Hulk, Mind Flayer, and most stuff outside the core MM).

[Marnath]

On the pathfinder SRD online, under Monsters as PC's. Neogi are not in the beastiary, though, because they're WotC product identify (as are the Umber Hulk, Mind Flayer, and most stuff outside the core MM).

That being said, a person who owns the books could probably update them to PF manually. I don't think it would be too hard.

[Urpriest]

If you're frustrated with monster with huge ECL, there's an ongoing project on the homebrew forum to convert monsters to classes with levels equal to their CR. Might be worth looking into.

[Draz74]

Neogi are not in the beastiary, though, because they're WotC product identify (as are the Umber Hulk, Mind Flayer, and most stuff outside the core MM).

How do you know they're Product Identity? I thought only monsters in the MM1 got "Product Identity" definitions. Mind Flayer, Beholder, Umber Hulk, and maybe a couple other things are in the MM1 but not the SRD; Neogi, however (like some other very iconic monsters, e.g. Phoenix) aren't in the SRD just because they didn't make it into the MM1 at all.

[The Glyphstone]

Eh, they may not be Product Identity by the legal definition. What I meant is that they're not in the SRD and freely available, so Paizo can't take them directly to use in their Bestiary.

[Paganboy28]

So how would you update a neogi to PF?

[Marnath]

I have no freakin' clue. :smallbiggrin:
I don't know how PF works, just that I hear it isn't too drastically different.

[Draz74]

I have no freakin' clue. :smallbiggrin:
I don't know how PF works, just that I hear it isn't too drastically different.

Find a post by Saph. In the signature, there will be a link to her Review of Pathfinder. It does a good job summarizing the differences between PF and 3.5e.

[Paganboy28]

OK, keeping with non-psionic Neogi variants.

How about this... Neogi Summoner / Mind-Bender?

Would that work (summoner from PF).


Psionics.. Ardent sounds interesting going with Deception Mantle and one other I can't remember...

Thrallherd sounds awesome but is it a one trick pony?

[Draz74]

Thrallherd sounds awesome but is it a one trick pony?

The first level is, yes. But the next eight levels advance your Manifesting ability, so that keeps you pretty flexible and powerful.

[The Glyphstone]

It's Leadership as a class, that scales faster than normal Leadership, gets a better cohort than normal Leadership, and eventually gets a second cohort. You never have to wait more than 24 hours before replacement followers appear, and you don't suffer reputation penalties no matter how cruel you are to them. It's totally a one-trick pony...but that one trick is so broken, you don't need any other tricks.

[Paganboy28]

Is it possible/feasible to convert the psionic Thrallherd to an arcane/magic version?

If so what would you suggest would be appropriate?

[The Glyphstone]

Quite easy actually.

Its only prerequisite besides skill ranks (which can stay the same) is the ability to manifest Mindlink. There's not real Arcane equivalent, so I'd make it neccessary to be able to cast Charm Person instead.

Where the Thrallherd learns Charm, the arcane variant instead learns Charm Monster for free, or scribes it into his book. When the Thrallherd gets Dominate, same thing for Dominate Person. Greater Dominate and Superior Dominate allow the caster to affect the listed types with Dominate Person, instead of waiting for Dominate Monster at ECL17.

[Draz74]

If so what would you suggest would be appropriate?

I'd suggest converting all magic over to the psionic system. :smallwink:

[Greenish]

I'd suggest converting all magic over to the psionic system. :smallwink:Well, all vancian casting at least. Invocations, meldshaping, binding and blade magic work pretty well as is.

[Draz74]

Well, all vancian casting at least. Invocations, meldshaping, binding and blade magic work pretty well as is.

Meh, half agreed. Binding and Meldshaping, although they end up being nicely balanced overall power-wise, aren't really elegant game design in my book. Too much bookkeeping, and (at least for Meldshaping) too many fiddly little bonuses.

Invocations and Maneuvers are sweet systems, though.