PDA

View Full Version : Mind Flayer or Eye Tyrant?



Chainsaw Hobbit
2010-08-29, 08:17 PM
Well, in my Underdark campaign my players have reached the paragon tier and I need a climatic villain. Should I use a tyrannical Beholder or a diabolical Illithid, which (in your experience) makes a better adversary?

shadow_archmagi
2010-08-29, 08:17 PM
Mind Flayers can steeple their fingers and say "Just as planned"

Beholders just look SILLY.

Zaydos
2010-08-29, 08:21 PM
I'm assuming from the phrase paragon tier this is 4e (and therefore I don't know their game mechanics). In my experience with 3.X, though, fluff-wise illithids made the better enemy. I used both but while eye tyrants were a one off foe, illithids were the recurring enemy of the game (often with gauth minions). Illithids are more humanoid so they can work as a BBEG better and are known for their plans.

Really will this be a climatic battle because it's the biggest thing they've faced, or will it be a villain with a good bit of foreshadowing? Beholders are awesome one time foes, but illithids are the master planners of aberration-kind.

TechnOkami
2010-08-29, 08:24 PM
An Illithid with several smaller beholder "pets", and his final form is inside a gigantic Beholder he controls from the inside, think a mecha except fleshy.

Chainsaw Hobbit
2010-08-29, 08:33 PM
So, I'm hearing Illithids are better?

It's a very hack-and-slash, clear-a-dungeon kinda game; probably 80% combat, 20% roleplaying.

Excession
2010-08-29, 08:33 PM
I would also go with Beholder for The Dragon (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheDragon) and Mind Flayer for the Big Bad (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BigBad). An alternative for the Beholder would be a Balhannoth, because those things are just nasty.

Edit: if you don't have time or roleplaying inclination to build up to the big bad, I'd go with the Beholder or Balhannoth. It only takes one round for players to start hating/fearing a Beholder or Balhannoth, a more cerebral big bad needs more build up.

Zaydos
2010-08-29, 08:45 PM
The more hack and slash the better beholder is. The more RP the better illithids are.

WinWin
2010-08-29, 08:46 PM
You can do both!

A beholder with the half illithid Template. Essentially a beholder that has been implanted with a mind flayer tadpole. Instead of turning into a mind flayer or ultrallithid as a human would, it becomes a hybrid monster.

Chainsaw Hobbit
2010-08-29, 08:53 PM
You can do both!

A beholder with the half illithid Template. Essentially a beholder that has been implanted with a mind flayer tadpole. Instead of turning into a mind flayer or ultrallithid as a human would, it becomes a hybrid monster.

Ummm, as I am familiar with the template it doesn't exist in 4e.

FMArthur
2010-08-29, 08:54 PM
You can do both!

A beholder with the half illithid Template. Essentially a beholder that has been implanted with a mind flayer tadpole. Instead of turning into a mind flayer or ultrallithid as a human would, it becomes a hybrid monster.

Better yet: an illithid with 10 eyestalk grafts. Illithids are more respectable-looking anyway, and this gives you all of an illithids abilities plus the beholder's. The price tag is insignificant for a BBEG and the grafts can't be salvaged for player use afterwards. Fiend Folio p209.

4th edition! I forget! Sorry.

Illithids are cooler and creepier. If it's just going to be instant combat without atmosphere or dialogue, beholder is a more powerful creature IMO. Otherwise, illithid.

WinWin
2010-08-29, 08:59 PM
Ummm, as I am familiar with the template it doesn't exist in 4e.

Apologies. Upgrading a beholder would be tricky, as they are solo monster (it can be done, but would require creating a new monster).

Perhaps applying a class template (I would suggest controller) to an illithid would be a decent option. Wizard or Psion would be good. Anything that can prevent the BBEG from getting mobbed and overwhelmed too quickly. Bursts, zone control and perhaps some limited teleportation would make for a memorable challenge.

Chainsaw Hobbit
2010-08-29, 09:00 PM
Illithids are cooler and creepier. If it's just going to be instant combat without atmosphere or dialogue, beholder is a more powerful creature IMO. Otherwise, illithid.

There will still be atmosphere and duologue, there will just be combat emphasis.
It's going to be a rescue mission in the ruins of a Drow fortress, become a haven for monsters and ruled by a Beholder/Illithid.

shadow_archmagi
2010-08-29, 09:03 PM
There will still be atmosphere and duologue, there will just be combat emphasis.
It's going to be a rescue mission in the ruins of a Drow fortress, become a haven for monsters and ruled by a Beholder/Illithid.

Oh, definately an Illithid then.


Points for how much of this you can work into it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMTizJemHO8

darkpuppy
2010-08-29, 09:16 PM
Yeah, both Beholders and Illithids can insta-rape the characters in different ways (Beholder eye-stalks, Illithid domination/brain eating), but the Beholders are more of the "xenophobic hatred of anything non beholder" (hence why they're nearly always solo), while Illithids quite happily use servants, and, as has already been noted, are master long term planners (their eventual goal is to ensure that the suns cool enough for their kind to be comfortable in the universe once again, and, this time round, not have all this pesky human revolution business... see Lords of Madness for the long version of that explanation.)

Lhurgyof
2010-08-29, 10:59 PM
Beholder, all the way. Have him plotting to eraticate all life, etc. etc.

Both are staple to the D&D diet, including both would be awesome, plus you can challenge the players using 3-dimensional combat with the Beholder.

mobdrazhar
2010-08-29, 11:08 PM
An Elder Brain controlling a Beholder.

They fight the Beholder before they can enter the room where the Elder Brain is.