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NeoRetribution
2010-08-30, 04:12 AM
Has anyone else ever held this conversation or something similar? I am having trouble forgetting it.
"You know, we could always play Exalted."

"No."

"Why not? I thought you liked Exalted."

"I'm tired of Exalted. It's the same thing every time: miserable mortal, super powers, super travel, super Shan, super stupid."

"But that's the point. Exalted is all about epic, high action, scenes that blow everyone at the table away!"

"Name one Exalted campaign you've ever played that was something other than: mortal, super, dead, repeat."

"Uh..."

"Exactly. You know what would be really interesting? An Exalted game where the shard was lost."

The Rose Dragon
2010-08-30, 04:15 AM
What do you mean "the shard was lost"? Exaltations are quite efficient in getting to where they need to be, unless there is magic on the order of the Jade Prison or the Monstrances.

kamikasei
2010-08-30, 04:21 AM
"I'm tired of Exalted. It's the same thing every time: miserable mortal, super powers, super travel, super Shan, super stupid."
...
"Name one Exalted campaign you've ever played that was something other than: mortal, super, dead, repeat."
Eh? This seems a terribly non-specific objection.

Malificus
2010-08-30, 04:24 AM
Unless you and him tend to go through exalts like popcorn in your games, I'm not sure I understand the complaint.

FelixG
2010-08-30, 04:42 AM
Has anyone else ever held this conversation or something similar? I am having trouble forgetting it.
"You know, we could always play Exalted."

"No."

"Why not? I thought you liked Exalted."

"I'm tired of Exalted. It's the same thing every time: miserable mortal, super powers, super travel, super Shan, super stupid."

"But that's the point. Exalted is all about epic, high action, scenes that blow everyone at the table away!"

"Name one Exalted campaign you've ever played that was something other than: mortal, super, dead, repeat."

"Uh..."

"Exactly. You know what would be really interesting? An Exalted game where the shard was lost."



Nope! just you man.

Exalted rocks :smallbiggrin:

Satyr
2010-08-30, 05:25 AM
I guess that Exalted has similar problems as pretty much all high powered games sooner or later face - if you start with high stakes and wonders beyond imagination, it becomes difficult to regularly top it and create a suitable follow-up which doesn't feel like a let-down - or just more of the same.
Unfortunately, I am not familiar with the background to offer a good solution.

Terraoblivion
2010-08-30, 09:35 AM
It depends on how you play it, really. If you play it like it was shounen anime, which is a common way to do it, i could see that being a problem. The style the writers intended was more along the lines of playing a post-modern version of ancient mythology, though. Should be much less of a problem in that case.

JeenLeen
2010-08-30, 09:45 AM
I can see someone tiring of a style of play or a given game if they've played it often enough.

If you're asking about how losing the Exaltation could be as a game, I could it working very well. Start off as Exalted (or mortals who quickly become Exalts), but then something happens to strip them of their power. You might have to modify the canon about how this can and cannot happen, but that's a fair move for the DM to make.

I would do something like let the Exalted keep their full Exalt stats and abilities, losing just their Charms, or gaining God-blooded or some other sort of powers. That way they have some superpowers, but nowhere near the power Exalts have.

Running a game as Terrestial Exalted or some other less-than-Solar type could also provide variability. Maybe Terrestials who rebel against the empire, but the Solars they would turn to don't trust them because they're Terrestials.

Kylarra
2010-08-30, 10:01 AM
Terrestrials are pretty fun to play too.

A suggestion that runs parallel to a conversation I had with a friend is to run a game where your exalts can't respire essence normally, so effectively they're stuck on stunt-regen which, depending on your personal preferences, can be more or less effective, or running to shadowlands or equivalent areas which provide temporary respite to their essence drought.


for the record, we were talking about how doomed our current group would be if they ever had to go into the underworld.

Xefas
2010-08-30, 10:06 AM
"Exactly. You know what would be really interesting? An Exalted game where the shard was lost."

This sounds like a perfectly viable premise. Normal mortal gains a Solar Exaltation. The Solar gains a larger-than-life Motivation, gains Intimacies with a bunch of powerful supernatural creatures, ascribes higher morals and codes to themselves, and then *BAM*, they're somehow mortal again.

What does he do about his Motivation to kill the Ebon Dragon or whatever? Moments ago, it was the most important thing in the world to him. He can't get rid of a Motivation that easily, and yet...mortal. What about his wife, the Celestial God of Making Awesome Cake that lives in a manse in Yu-Shan? Will she even figure out what happened? Would she see him as any more than an insect now? And those recurring Abyssals that show up now and again to kill you, that you have an intimacy of hatred for, what now? And can you live up to that 5 Compassion now? If you have some higher morals or oaths, can you really say it's fair to relinquish them - after all, moments ago, they were sacred.

Artanis
2010-08-30, 11:36 AM
"Name one Exalted campaign you've ever played that was something other than: mortal, super, dead, repeat."

Why not start a game as somebody who's already Exalted?

Kyeudo
2010-08-30, 12:13 PM
Why not start a game as somebody who's already Exalted?

Backstories for people who start Exalted sound like Mary Sues 9 times out of 10. For some reason, people can't write a mortal and then add Exaltation, they instead write Superman.

Esser-Z
2010-08-30, 12:16 PM
And here I was thinking the title had something to do with Exalted feats from the BoED.

The Rose Dragon
2010-08-30, 12:20 PM
Backstories for people who start Exalted sound like Mary Sues 9 times out of 10. For some reason, people can't write a mortal and then add Exaltation, they instead write Superman.

You haven't been playing with the right people, I guess. :smalltongue:

Reynard
2010-08-30, 01:18 PM
The thing is, Mortals have to be pretty damn good at what they do in order to become Exalted in the first place.

Solars have to do attempt crazy, over the top stuff in order to Exalt. Now, the definition of 'stuff' varies based on Caste, but it must be something that they'd find near impossible to do as a Mortal.

Lunars have to survive ridiculous conditions. Like, kill a normal Mortal in mere minutes sorts of conditions.

Infernals make deals with the Yozi, yes. But they have to be worthy of the shard to get one, otherwise it's a one-way trip to Akuma town for them. The Yozi won't give a fiftieth of their shards to just any Joe of the street, unless they've got a nasty plan.

Siddies don't, of course, since they're fated to it. And Abyssals are chosen by the Deathlords, and that's all the restriction they have. Yes, they tend to pick those who died doing something truly great, but there isn't anything saying they can't pick whoever they feel like.

Kyeudo
2010-08-30, 02:41 PM
The thing is, Mortals have to be pretty damn good at what they do in order to become Exalted in the first place.

Solars have to do attempt crazy, over the top stuff in order to Exalt. Now, the definition of 'stuff' varies based on Caste, but it must be something that they'd find near impossible to do as a Mortal.

Lunars have to survive ridiculous conditions. Like, kill a normal Mortal in mere minutes sorts of conditions.


I think you are over estimating the requirements for Solar and Lunar Exaltation by alot. Yes, Solars tend to Exalt when attempting something hard, but that's where it seems to stop. They don't need to be surfing down a river of lava on the skeleton of a T-Rex they killed with their bare hands. One of the cannonical Solars Exalted while reading a book in a library.

Lunars are the same way. They tend to Exalt after surviving something hard, but not always. Seven Devils Clever Exalted when she faced down a Nexus gang leader (or was it a drug lord?) and then tore the guy to small pieces.

Either way, it doesn't mean that your pre-Exalation character needs to be Richard Rahl dual wielding Excaliber and Zangetsu while taking on Sephiroth.


And Abyssals are chosen by the Deathlords, and that's all the restriction they have. Yes, they tend to pick those who died doing something truly great, but there isn't anything saying they can't pick whoever they feel like.

Actually, Deathlords have the same restriction in choosing a new Abyssal as the Yozis do when choosing an Infernal. The mortal must be worthy of the Exaltation. It's one of the basic safeguards encoded into the Exaltations themselves and has never been removed.

Reis Tahlen
2010-08-30, 02:44 PM
And here I was thinking the title had something to do with Exalted feats from the BoED.

Same here.

Cubey
2010-08-30, 02:46 PM
I guess that Exalted has similar problems as pretty much all high powered games sooner or later face - if you start with high stakes and wonders beyond imagination, it becomes difficult to regularly top it and create a suitable follow-up which doesn't feel like a let-down - or just more of the same.
Unfortunately, I am not familiar with the background to offer a good solution.

Important part bolded.

So, you don't know the setting enough to offer a solution, but you do know it enough to criticize it?

There is plenty of challenge in Exalted. And even more variety. If someone gets bored with the system, and all their sessions look the same - well, they were playing with a bad or uninventive storyteller. The Creation is such a giant and varied place that you can have almost any kind of a story in Exalted.

Terraoblivion
2010-08-30, 02:59 PM
Especially once you bring all the different exalt types in play. Playing Siddies is a vastly different experience from playing Solars, for example. You have to be subtle, as well as possessing a deep understanding of bureaucracy or you will never be more than a lackey for everyone else.

In regards to the requirements for exaltation, it is also worth remembering that the survival of Lunars can be emotional or spiritual survival. Their physical bodies don't have to be in danger, but growing up in an oppressive, high-tension environment can lead to exaltion. Such as that of an ambitious, minor branch of a dynastic family where you are the only child and they are pinning their hopes for an exaltation on you. Just to provide one example of that.

And Kyeudo is quite correct, you have to do something difficult and impressive, but that can still be something that's pretty ordinary for an exalt to do. Similarly a single moment of heroism probably counts less than a greater determination and larger goals for your heroism, you don't exalt out of petty greed no matter how great a risk you take for the money.

Innis Cabal
2010-08-30, 03:03 PM
Sounds like someone needs to play some Dragon Blooded.

Gensh
2010-08-30, 03:06 PM
Actually, Deathlords have the same restriction in choosing a new Abyssal as the Yozis do when choosing an Infernal. The mortal must be worthy of the Exaltation. It's one of the basic safeguards encoded into the Exaltations themselves and has never been removed.

Wait, I thought that they only had to pick someone that's just awesome enough for the Exaltation to stick, but otherwise, they could just pick someone for teh lulz.

On topic, Alchemicals. Alchemicals were never mortal to begin with; they're fleshy robots with some odd thousand souls stuck in a jewel on their forehead. Plus, you get to go on and on about Soviet Russia their hometown since they're state-sponsored heroes. Plus, with the clarity track, you don't necessarily have to worry about angst so much, though there's always that chance. Or for even more lulz, the Fair Folk.

Satyr
2010-08-30, 03:10 PM
So, you don't know the setting enough to offer a solution, but you do know it enough to criticize it?

Yes, for two reasons:
The pattern of the difficulties of escalation I described is very common and not limited to Exalted; in fact it appears in several high powered RPGs (for example epic level D&D) or TV shows, probably most prominently in Dragon Ball with every villain more ultimate than the last. And, as a second reason, I am familiar with parts of Exalted; I own a pdf of the core book, I have even played a short adventure, but my experiences are limited to Solar exalted and a very rough overview of the rest. This is enough to get a general impression of the game and its mood. However, it is not enough to offer a constructive advice, because for that I feel that one needs more detail knowledge and a deeper insight in the universe than the one you get from playing the Tomb of Four Corners (or what the name of the promo adventure was).

Yes, one can argue that a detailed and conclusive knowledge of the setting is a prerequisite for any criticism, and yes, a deep analysis often depends on an exact and elaborate familiarity; on the other hand the same logic would indicate that the common mocking of FATAL is inappropriate for everybody who hasn't played the game.

Kyeudo
2010-08-30, 03:14 PM
Wait, I thought that they only had to pick someone that's just awesome enough for the Exaltation to stick, but otherwise, they could just pick someone for teh lulz.


You are correct. They have to pick someone great enough that the Exaltation will stick. Seeing as how it is a corrupted Solar Exaltation, the Abyssal Exaltation does have standards. You can't just be some nobody fanatical ancestor cultist that the Deathlord happened to have lying around. You have to be awesome enough that you could shake up the local area and be somebody just on your own (see: basic definition of a heroic mortal) if it weren't for the fact that you are dying.



On topic, Alchemicals. Alchemicals were never mortal to begin with; they're fleshy robots with some odd thousand souls stuck in a jewel on their forehead. Plus, you get to go on and on about Soviet Russia their hometown since they're state-sponsored heroes. Plus, with the clarity track, you don't necessarily have to worry about angst so much, though there's always that chance. Or for even more lulz, the Fair Folk.

They only have one soul. They just have memories from their past dozen mortal (and occasionally Alchemical) incarnations.

Devils_Advocate
2010-08-30, 03:20 PM
From a thread (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=317216), one possible idea for a somewhat unconventional game:

The Sidereals are in charge of making sure Fate happens the way it should. This makes it incredibly easy to come up with really awesome adventures.

1. Take the great epic story of your choice, and translate it into Exalted terms.

2. Pay special attention to all the places where one word said differently would have made the whole house of cards come crashing down.

3. Your NPCs said those words differently.

4. The Sidereal PCs' job is to make sure the story happens the way it's supposed to, or else ALL OF CREATION DIES.

5. Demons, Exalts, Deathlords, ghosts, Fair Folk and renegade gods will object to your meddling.

For instance, Exalted-Paris is supposed to cuckold Exalted-Menelaus by seducing Exalted-Helen, triggering the Exalted Trojan War. However, for the one time in his life, the damn fool is keeping it in his pants. If he doesn't sleep with her the Outcaste chieftains of Exalted-Greece won't form an alliance to destroy Fair-folk-infested Troy, and the entire Hundred Kingdoms will FALL INTO THE WYLD.

The PCs' job is to make sure that Exalted-Paris and Exalted-Helen do end up in bed with each other and that war consumes the Hundred Kingdoms the way it's supposed to.
It was commented in a thread about Keychain of Creation (http://keychain.patternspider.net/archive/koc0001.html) that it would be pretty awesome to run an actual game about a secret, elite group of Dragon-Blooded who run missions for the Sidereals.

One could combine the above two ideas. And that's just one example of the sort of thing you could do with Exalted.


So, you don't know the setting enough to offer a solution, but you do know it enough to criticize it?
He did say "I guess". You know, based partly on what the first post said?

Yuki Akuma
2010-08-30, 03:54 PM
So basically the problem is that you play in a setting with a total land area about twice that of Earth with a metric ton of cultural diversity and several different types of beings (many of which with five sub-breeds) and you're getting bored with things always being the same?

Use something else in the setting, then. Play God-Blooded if you're bored of Exalted. Or play Fair Folk. Heroic mortals? Or an Exalt type you haven't tried yet (by which I mean, of course, anything but a Solar).

Exalted is not a one-trick game.

Kris Strife
2010-08-30, 08:26 PM
You could play a dragon-king, Ghost-blooded, God-Blooded, Half-Caste, one of the specially engineered types of humans...

NeoRetribution
2010-08-31, 04:14 AM
Wow. That is a number of posts too large to reply to individually. I will try to be succinct.

First, thank you everyone for your comments.

Second, I apologize for not marking this thread more clearly. I did not mean to confuse anyone over the Book of Exalted Deeds.

Third, the Setting information provided by the Exalted manuals is irrelevant for the purpose of this thread.

Fourth, my previous post was the distillation of numerous, numerous, conversations regarding Exalted that I have not directly participated in. The reason why is because I can see both aspects of the discussion. On the one hand Action Guy wants the Kung Fu film of next century and on the other is Do-It-Yourself Guy who might have played more Solar Exalted campaigns than trips to the bathroom.

Dragon Ball, and Z, is an excellent allegory of how I have watched story-tellers try to out-do each other. As much as I can sympathize with all of the above, it does not seem like anyone else has been on the receiving end of such a conversation. But the wealth of information is helpful.

I do like Dragon Kings( ! ). My first game, however, was heroic mortal and I really liked it. I genuinely thought that I had found a game system that I could sink into. And then I was exposed to the full content of the manuals...

Fifth, it is not my intention to offend anyone or use this thread to debate the amorphous merits of Exalted Setting material. That is for another day and another thread. But some of the commentary has started me to wonder what an Exalted: Lost, campaign might look like.

Thank you, again, for your thoughts and comments.

Kylarra
2010-08-31, 09:43 AM
It's interesting that the complaint is mortal->super->dead, repeat, since a fair number of other games, if you're just looking at the relative power level formulae, do the exact same thing. Take D&D for instance, in 3.X for most worlds that aren't Faerun, you outpace the standard NPCs rather quickly and are superhuman by level 5-6, that's barely a quarter of the way down the system, 4e already has you being stronger than the average person by virtue of being a PC. What I'm getting at is that it's not a setting specific issue.


Anyway, I'm curious what you got out of the content of the manuals.

A lost campaign would certainly be interesting, albeit changing a bit of the fluff of the system. It's something I've considered myself at least once, albeit more of an essence paralysis effect where they can't access their charms. Still superhuman in terms of total abilities compared to mortals in their specialties, but only barely.

Draxar
2010-08-31, 09:53 AM
[FONT="Palatino Linotype"]Third, the Setting information provided by the Exalted manuals is irrelevant for the purpose of this thread.

Why? Also, see my other response to you.


Fifth, it is not my intention to offend anyone or use this thread to debate the amorphous merits of Exalted Setting material. That is for another day and another thread.

Drift happens


I think you are over estimating the requirements for Solar and Lunar Exaltation by alot. Yes, Solars tend to Exalt when attempting something hard, but that's where it seems to stop. They don't need to be surfing down a river of lava on the skeleton of a T-Rex they killed with their bare hands. One of the cannonical Solars Exalted while reading a book in a library.

Lunars are the same way. They tend to Exalt after surviving something hard, but not always. Seven Devils Clever Exalted when she faced down a Nexus gang leader (or was it a drug lord?) and then tore the guy to small pieces.


The Exaltation demands heroes. Exaltation is a fundamental alteration of destiny, turn a mortal into a semi-divine weapon. To be capable of benefiting from the Exaltation’s power, the Exalt-to-be must already have an important destiny. No Exalt is unwilling to wield his power.

The Exaltation is not a rational or moral force, though.It simply seeks out beings who can and will wield divine power. It could descend on the most pious of hermits or the most immoral of rascals, so long as the chosen one is of
consequence to history and will put its might to use.

While I can't lay my hands on a quote of it, I know it's been stated that Celestial Exaltation requires at least a Destiny backgrounds of 3, which disappears on exaltation. Destiny 3 means: "Your deeds influence a kingdom, for better or worse, and you’ll definitely win a place in chronicles or local legends"

Kylarra
2010-08-31, 10:00 AM
Exaltations are a bit schizophrenic, on one hand you're supposed to be trying ta do something awesome, on the other hand you're just sort of destined to have it, which negates selfwill in the doing something awesome part.

Oslecamo
2010-08-31, 10:44 AM
It's interesting that the complaint is mortal->super->dead, repeat, since a fair number of other games, if you're just looking at the relative power level formulae, do the exact same thing. Take D&D for instance, in 3.X for most worlds that aren't Faerun, you outpace the standard NPCs rather quickly and are superhuman by level 5-6, that's barely a quarter of the way down the system, 4e already has you being stronger than the average person by virtue of being a PC. What I'm getting at is that it's not a setting specific issue.


On the other hand, in D&D there's a considerable bigger power span. You're stronger than 1st level humies? Ok, then talk to those giants. And devils. And angels. And then mind flayers. And beholders. Dragons. Elder Evils. And then perhaps you can start facing gods.

An exalted however is expected to start punching gods on the face out of the bat. On the other hand, the 1st comic on the book shows that "gods" get mugged by regular street bandits. Either way, considerably smaller power span.

Plus in D&D one needs to reach around level 10 before they really become untouchable by lv1 mooks. Exalteds not focused on combat can 1-hit kill non-heroic humies. If you actualy focus on combat you can lay waste to humie armies right away.

Kyeudo
2010-08-31, 10:49 AM
While I can't lay my hands on a quote of it, I know it's been stated that Celestial Exaltation requires at least a Destiny backgrounds of 3, which disappears on exaltation. Destiny 3 means: "Your deeds influence a kingdom, for better or worse, and you’ll definitely win a place in chronicles or local legends"

That was from Scroll of Heroes, which has . . . problems.

The Rose Dragon
2010-08-31, 10:59 AM
On the other hand, in D&D there's a considerable bigger power span. You're stronger than 1st level humies? Ok, then talk to those giants. And devils. And angels. And then mind flayers. And beholders. Dragons. Elder Evils. And then perhaps you can start facing gods.

An exalted however is expected to start punching gods on the face out of the bat. On the other hand, the 1st comic on the book shows that "gods" get mugged by regular street bandits. Either way, considerably smaller power span.

You'll note that "god" is a very wide power span in Exalted. There are least gods, which are barely sapient and can be defeated by mortals if they can hit immaterial beings, little gods ranging from salt gods, who are pushovers, to Flashing Peak, who can only be defeated by an experienced circle without relying on incredible luck, and the Incarnae such as the Unconquered Sun, whose stats include "succeeds at everything ever as long as he stays true to his virtues" (not quite written that way, but you get the point).

No matter how big you are, there is almost always something bigger who can put you in your place. That's why Exalted has circles and the War ability, after all - there is strength to be found in numbers.

Sure, most of your enemies are one of four metaphysical classes (spirits, raksha, behemoths and Exalts), but that hardly means there isn't variety in both power level and capabilities of those.

Oslecamo
2010-08-31, 11:06 AM
You'll note that "god" is a very wide power span in Exalted. There are least gods, which are barely sapient and can be defeated by mortals if they can hit immaterial beings, little gods ranging from salt gods, who are pushovers, to Flashing Peak, who can only be defeated by an experienced circle without relying on incredible luck, and the Incarnae such as the Unconquered Sun, whose stats include "succeeds at everything ever as long as he stays true to his virtues" (not quite written that way, but you get the point).

That actualy supports my point, that only NPCs important enough to get personal names are relatively safe from 1st level exalteds.



No matter how big you are, there is almost always something bigger who can put you in your place. That's why Exalted has circles and the War ability, after all - there is strength to be found in numbers.

Again, mostly named characters. In D&D dragons/giants/stuff are a wide spread species, not a dozen of unique individuals, with enough numbers to actualy build cities only with their people.



Sure, most of your enemies are one of four metaphysical classes (spirits, raksha, behemoths and Exalts), but that hardly means there isn't variety in both power level and capabilities of those.

There's variety, but you still laugh at 99% of the world at first level in Exalted, while in D&D even housecats are a threat when you start!:smalltongue:

Kylarra
2010-08-31, 11:09 AM
An exalted however is expected to start punching gods on the face out of the bat. On the other hand, the 1st comic on the book shows that "gods" get mugged by regular street bandits. Either way, considerably smaller power span. That's akin to saying "oh you can kill dragons right off the bat in D&D 3.X". Sure it can be done, tiny black dragon wyrmlings have only 30 hp after all, but hardly representative of any significant achievement.

Kyeudo
2010-08-31, 11:17 AM
There's variety, but you still laugh at 99% of the world at first level in Exalted, while in D&D even housecats are a threat when you start!:smalltongue:

So you'd prefer that house cats be a deadly challenge in your RPG?

One of the things with Exalted is that if you only think like DBZ, you get DBZ. This is because DBZ was one of the inspirations for Exalted. If you think more broadly, even fairly high power Exalts can be challenged by fairly low power creatures. Enough numbers on someone and you start getting free unexpected attacks on your target. Coordinate an attack and even relatively unskilled mooks can hit your DVs. Bring out stuff the Exalts can't just sword to death, like a tense political situation, a rescue mission, etc. Go after the people the Exalt cares about. Make him worry about assassins making attempts on his wife's life if he goes off to war.

Drascin
2010-08-31, 11:18 AM
Especially once you bring all the different exalt types in play. Playing Siddies is a vastly different experience from playing Solars, for example. You have to be subtle, as well as possessing a deep understanding of bureaucracy or you will never be more than a lackey for everyone else.

I would honestly suggest this. It's true that Solars feel a bit ripe for "Dragon Ball syndrome" if the ST is not careful, since they're a group of Exalts who get exalted by doing awesome stuff and whose job description is basically to out-awesome themselves constantly in the search of their Motivation. They basically need to be very ambitious and driven for the shard to even choose them, says the manual, so things can escalate really quickly - but that's when you break out, say, a Terrestrials game.

Kylarra
2010-08-31, 11:21 AM
I would honestly suggest this. It's true that Solars feel a bit ripe for "Dragon Ball syndrome" if the ST is not careful, since they're a group of Exalts who get exalted by doing awesome stuff and whose job description is basically to out-awesome themselves constantly in the search of their Motivation. They basically need to be very ambitious and driven for the shard to even choose them, says the manual, so things can escalate really quickly - but that's when you break out, say, a Terrestrials game.Or Alchemicals. I found the idea of limited charmslots and arrays to be really fun.

The Rose Dragon
2010-08-31, 11:26 AM
That actualy supports my point, that only NPCs important enough to get personal names are relatively safe from 1st level exalteds.

Exalts, not Exalteds. Furthermore, there is no such thing as 1st level in Exalted. The closest thing you get is Essence 1, which no Exalt starts as.


Again, mostly named characters. In D&D dragons/giants/stuff are a wide spread species, not a dozen of unique individuals, with enough numbers to actualy build cities only with their people.

Almost every being has a name in Creation. Each elemental dragon has his own name, as does every sapient elemental, almost every little god, almost every demon and every other being you can fight (and a lot of beings you can't or shouldn't). There is a city the size of Russia which contains almost nothing other than little gods. There is a city of infinite size that is home to almost all demons in Creation. There aren't a dozen beings that can challenge the Exalted, there are hundreds of thousands. For a starting Celestial Exalt, a good portion of the Terrestrial Host is a potential threat, in groups or as individuals. Dragon Kings are all individuals who carry memories from life to life, had a world-spanning civilization before the Primordial War, can challenge most starting Exalts and there are 20 million of them. You shouldn't judge the entire setting just by looking at an infinitesimal portion of it.


There's variety, but you still laugh at 99% of the world at first level in Exalted, while in D&D even housecats are a threat when you start!:smalltongue:

And you laugh at 99% of the world at chargen in D&D, if you include things like mice and blades of grass in "the world". Trying to fight the scenery is not what the game is about.

Drascin
2010-08-31, 11:26 AM
Or Alchemicals. I found the idea of limited charmslots and arrays to be really fun.

Well yeah, I thought that went without saying. Alchemicals are the best damn part of the game :smalltongue:.

Truth be told, stumbling upon Keychain of Creation during the Nova arc was what motivated me to give this game a read despite my intense dislike of most WW games.

Oslecamo
2010-08-31, 02:44 PM
Exalts, not Exalteds. Furthermore, there is no such thing as 1st level in Exalted. The closest thing you get is Essence 1, which no Exalt starts as.

Yeah, an Essence 1 Exalt would actualy be almost an average dude. But there's still a starting point.



Almost every being has a name in Creation. Each elemental dragon has his own name, as does every sapient elemental, almost every little god, almost every demon and every other being you can fight (and a lot of beings you can't or shouldn't). There is a city the size of Russia which contains almost nothing other than little gods. There is a city of infinite size that is home to almost all demons in Creation. There aren't a dozen beings that can challenge the Exalted, there are hundreds of thousands. For a starting Celestial Exalt, a good portion of the Terrestrial Host is a potential threat, in groups or as individuals. Dragon Kings are all individuals who carry memories from life to life, had a world-spanning civilization before the Primordial War, can challenge most starting Exalts and there are 20 million of them. You shouldn't judge the entire setting just by looking at an infinitesimal portion of it.

Well, the other poster did that for D&D. They ignored all the multiple infinite planes, many of them of infinite size themselves, each bursting with mighty threats. The Abyss alone has uncountable layers sending forth uncountable hordes of demons from lemures to balors, passing trough elder evils, mad wizards, demonic princes, corrupted elementals and the DM knows what more. And if you don't feel like fighting them then there's plenty more planes to choose from.



And you laugh at 99% of the world at chargen in D&D, if you include things like mice and blades of grass in "the world". Trying to fight the scenery is not what the game is about.

On the contrary, the game isn't called Dungeons and Dragons for nothing. The scenery must be taken as seriously as your conscient enemies. The mice? When they get togheter they'll form some kind of deadly swarm immune to most of your tricks. The blades of grass? Just covering some nasty trap. Tomb of Horrors is a good example of a D&D situation where you can't even trust aparenty empty spaces!:smalltongue:

Kylarra
2010-08-31, 03:11 PM
I didn't ignore anything? I simply pointed out that mortal -> mortal + -> dead is hardly system specific to Exalted.