Tarquin is not Lord Tyrinar (OOTPCs minor spoiler)

[pasko77]

I just noticed a detail, sorry if this has already been debated.

It is commonly accepted that Elan's father may be the overlord who imprisoned Haley's father, and so far Tarquin's surname hasn't been disclosed. Plus, he lives in the same continent where Haley is searching for "tyrinaria".

However, in 725 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0725.html), Tarquin says he had a kingdom only once, and that Nale was just a child at the time. It is explicitly said in panel 6 that his only attempt to directly seize power was more than 15 years ago.

Haley, in OOTPCs, is told about her father's imprisonment only a couple of years earlier than the current facts, so time periods cannot coincide.
Her father was free and in greysky city for Haley's whole youth, as it is proven by the fact that he is present when she and crystal meet.

Thoughts?

[hamishspence]

the issue has been raised- but you're right about it being implausible that Tarquin is Tyrinar, if what Tarquin has said is true.

There have been a few theories- from:

"Tyrinar never existed- that letter is a con-trick" to
"Tyrinaria was the nation conquered by the EoB two years ago, not long after Haley received the letter"

(If you check the date in Origin of PCs when Haley received the letter, and work out how long its been between the start of the strip and the present, it should come to a bit more than two years).

[factotum]

I think this has been brought up before, so it's not a new theory by any means. In any case, the only reason that "Lord Tyrinar" is considered to be the same as Tarquin is because of the old, old theory that Elan's dad was Tyrinar--and the entire basis for that was the picture that showed him in a cart with a flag with the letter T on it! Given how shaky the original theory was it's hardly surprising that more recent strips have blown it out of the water.

[Laeranu]

though it would be cool if Lord Tarquin was Lord Tyrinar, plus it would be really dramatic which is sort of tarquin's area (and Elan's). i prefer this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167075) theory. which makes sense if
Tyrinaria was the nation conquered by the EoB two years ago

though i do wonder who tyrinar is?
if tarquin lied it could have been him.

[Ancalagon]

Even if Tyrinar is fabricated, SOMEONE on the western continent must have done something to Haley's Father - or he would be back by now.
So even if Tarquin is not Tyrinar and even if "Tyrinar" never existed after all, Tarquin can still be the one responsible for Haley's Father's absence (sending the letter Bozzok asked about and keeping the father prisoner).

[Kish]

Even if Tyrinar is fabricated, SOMEONE on the western continent must have done something to Haley's Father - or he would be back by now.
So even if Tarquin is not Tyrinar and even if "Tyrinar" never existed after all, Tarquin can still be the one responsible for Haley's Father's absence (sending the letter Bozzok asked about and keeping the father prisoner).
I'm confused. Why is "Tyrinar is fabricated and Tarquin did it" an explanation that springs to mind before, "Tyrinar, who has nothing to do with Tarquin or Elan, did it"?

[Ancalagon]

I'm confused. Why is "Tyrinar is fabricated and Tarquin did it" an explanation that springs to mind before, "Tyrinar, who has nothing to do with Tarquin or Elan, did it"?

There's an if:
IF Tyrianar is fabricated... THEN Tarquin can still be responsible.

I'm not giving out estimates how likely I find that Tarquin is related to the abduction of Haley's Father in regard to the varying possible theories (Tarquin = Tyrinar, Tarquin != Tyrianar etc etc).

In contrast to what you seem to have thought I did not say "Tyrinar is fabricated and Tarquin did it".
You are also wrong on another count: They are related. They are both in the same narrative. It's a pure OOC-relation but it is there and surely bigger than 0 and also, I think, about what was supposed to get discussed in this thread.

[Kish]

the varying possible theories (Tarquin = Tyrinar, Tarquin != Tyrianar

One of those is a theory, and, at this point, I would say, a wacky one. The other might form the basis for any number of theories but is not a theory in and of itself, any more than "Haley is not Therkla" or "Roy is not Girard" is a theory.


You are also wrong on another count: They are related. They are both in the same narrative.

I find it hard to believe that "X has nothing to do with Y or Z" is so unclearly phrased that it makes sense to, for example, read "the Cliffport Chief of Police has nothing to do with Redcloak" as claiming they are in different comics.

[Ancalagon]

Surely we can start to argue how much makes sense in what way, but the point stays that even if Tyrinar is a thing of fabrication is still quite possible that Tarquin is, in several possible ways, behind the abucation of Elan's Girlfriend's Father.

How likely those setups are is up to everyone to decide on their own, I, personally, would just like to state I find some setup like that much more likely than Redcloak being aware in some plot-relevant way of the Cliffport Police.
In fact, I have no elborated interest in such a discussion and also think it would derail this thread too much. In general it is valid to ponder how related things are just because they are in the same narrative and would suggest watching the following link as introduction (it's pretty good):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhfGp0Ik_q4

[TheNovak]

"Tyrinaria was the nation conquered by the EoB two years ago, not long after Haley received the letter"

This is my pet theory. When the EoB took over, it probably kept all of Tyrania's prisoners in the dungeon, because hey, why not. But given the extremely Lawful Evil nature of the Empire, I doubt they're going to honor a deal made by the people they conquered, particularly one that circumvents the typical process of justice.

[Darthteej]

Yeah, I agree with the guy above me, Elan's tripped over massive amounts of plot already, why not take it one step further?

[Nilan8888]

I think we're just at a point of too little information for the theories to go very far.

To quibble, even the OP is wrong on his count that it is 'explicitly stated' in Panel 6 of 725 that Tarquin only ever ruled a nation once over 15 years ago. Given the exact dialogue, it's really only heavily implied. Technically speaking Tarquin could have been the head of a nation over 2 years ago and what he says is not in conflict since he does not say he ruled nations in addition to selling his military services.

That is however, very, very unliklely. I'm just using that to point out how little information we actually have to go on.

Most likely Tarquin is NOT Tyrinar. However given what we've seen of Tarquin he should know who Tyrinar is, assuming Tyrinar existed. And if Tyrinar did exist in the manner the letter implies, Tarquin should know even more about this guy than he knows about Girard, seeing as how Tyrinar was in the same business of ruling nations as he is, whereas Girard seems unlikely to have gotten much involved in local politics.

Does Tarquin have anything to do with Haley's Dad? It's certainly a possibility. But for him to have actually orchestrated the other half of Buzzock's plot, I'm going to go out on a limb and say... no. I haven't read OTOOPCs, but if I recall Buzzock mentions in 609 that he sent letters to "friends" in the Western Continent to orchestrate the removal of Haley's Dad.

Being a half Orc, Buzzock is probably too young to have had Tarquin as any realistic contact. Tarquin has been on that continent for at least 15 years, probably a fair bit longer. At the time Tarquin left the Northern Continent, Buzzock may have been a kid or young teenager -- certainly nobody of much significance.

It may have been that Buzzock acquired Tarquin as a contact when he grew in powr in the Thieves Guild, but it's a bit presumptuous to figure how that could have happened. Most likely he would have gotten Tarquin's name from someone else. There isn't all that much reason, even when Buzzock was of greater status, that the two should know one another or interact. They're very far away from one another in a world whose distances mean more than distances in our own world just as they meant more 100 or 200 years ago.

Nominally, anything could have happened. But it would be expected at this point in the narrative for Tarquin to have been somehow involved, so that in itself is a reason to figure that it won't be the case. I'm guessing that it will turn out that, if Haley's Dad is still imprisoned, he will know a fair amount about the major power brokers in the situation, but have no idea otherwise about what's going on.

He might even offer to help find Haley's Dad. Although if Haley's been lying to them, it might be just to betray them (and specifically them -- Haley and her father) later. i'm wondering at this point just how specific Tarquin is in exacting revenge and if Haley's the key person lying to him if he'd want to narrow any revenge (assuming he wants some) to specifically her or if he'd paint the Order all with the same brush.

[The Succubus]

the issue has been raised- but you're right about it being implausible that Tarquin is Tyrinar, if what Tarquin has said is true.

There have been a few theories- from:

"Tyrinar never existed- that letter is a con-trick" to
"Tyrinaria was the nation conquered by the EoB two years ago, not long after Haley received the letter"

(If you check the date in Origin of PCs when Haley received the letter, and work out how long its been between the start of the strip and the present, it should come to a bit more than two years).

The first one is a thought that's crossed my mind more than once. Reading the letter, it does seem like a typical 419er scam.

[Mauve Shirt]

Girard is Tyrinar.

[Kish]

No, Roy is Tyrinar.

[The Succubus]

I'm Tyrinar and so's my wife!

/python

[Nilan8888]

You're all wrong.

Tyrinar is WILLIAM SHATNER.

[T.H. Everything]

Heh. Even though it's complete impossible, I still like the 'Tarquin is Tyrinar' theory, just like I like the 'Tom Bombadil is the Witch-King of Angmar' theory.
In the actual comic, even though Tarquin isn't Tyrinar himself, it's still possible that he worked for Tyrinar, or knows where Haley's father is imprisoned.

[Stabber]

Girard is Tyrinar.

I'm in agreement.

[PsychoticPanda]

Here is a crazy thought, the Empress of blood conquered Tyrinar, in the process inhabiting all prisoners, a.k.a. Haley's dad.

Edit: Oh sorry I did not see this idea was already suggested!
:smallwink:

[lothos]

I'm Tyrinar and so's my wife!

/python

WELEASE GIWAWD !
WELEASE TYWINAWRRR !

/pyton too

EDIT - Actually, I wonder if we will see someone at the gladiator games in a few strips saying:

WELEASE WOY !
WELEASE BELKAWRRR !

And then Roy will say "no, please dont' release Belkawrrr"

[DireSockPuppet]

Why do people assume that Tyrinar is a person? The kingdoms seem to be based around titles; Dictataria from dictator, Despotania from Despot. It is most likely that Tyrinaria simply comes from the word 'tyrant' and has nothing to do with a person.

[factotum]

They assume that because the letter in strip #131 explicitly states that the ruler of Tyrinaria is called "Lord Tyrinar the Bloody"... :smallconfused:

[DireSockPuppet]

Ah. My mistake :smallredface: