Laptops For University

[PlatinumJester]

Hello long time no see. I'm currently going to uni soon and I'm buying a new laptop. Unfortunatly me and my family suck when it comes to picking up decent computers and I was wondering if anyone knew of any?

Budget - £300 - £600

Uses in order of importance:
Internet
Music
Gaming
Work

Thanks:smallbiggrin:

P.S. I don't want to start the whole debate up but I it can't be a mac. This is firstly so I can play games and secondly because macs confuse me

[Castaras]

if you think you can handle the travel arrangements, go for a desktop. They've got much smaller recently, and you'll get a helluvalot more bang for your buck. Especially at that budget. I'll let someone else go into the specifics on which computer you should build and which computer you should buy ready made.

Otherwise... Don't go for a Dell, Acer laptops are brilliant when going for cheap ones, as are HP and Asus.

[Rawhide]

it can't be a mac. This is firstly so I can play games

You do realise that macs can run windows at full speed (http://ptech.allthingsd.com/20060406/apple-boot-camp-macs/), right?


As for Windows PCs, I would never ever buy Acer again, they use some very dodgee practices. Dell computers are usually the cheapest or close to and I feel that the bad reputation they have is not deserved (it is mostly a memory of a time when they did have very poor service, with recent experiences carrying it on but being no more than any other company).

[Jack Squat]

First off, does your university have any requirements that need to be matched?


I'd stay away from Sony and Toshiba, since I've run across a lot of problems with them. Lenovo is good for a business computer, but probably not what you're looking for for gaming. Otherwise, go wild.

I've always had good things about HPs from my friends who have them (and I rarely have to fix them), and the only problem I've had from Dell (that's not related to age or me taking them apart) is a faulty headphone port.

[Mauve Shirt]

My HP laptop is pretty fantastic. My sister's Dell isn't that bad either, it's just old and pretty big for what she wanted it for. Roomie's Toshiba exploded after a year, though.

[Klose_the_Sith]

You do realise that macs can run windows at full speed (http://ptech.allthingsd.com/20060406/apple-boot-camp-macs/), right?

Full speed my ass. An imac costs way more than my laptop did to be granted ... worse specs. Sure you can run lots of games on them, but anything vaguely new will involve some serious hobbling.

It'd cost another $2,000 (Australian) to get the Mac laptop equivalent of my current machine. Think about that.


As for Windows PCs, I would never ever buy Acer again, they use some very dodgee practices. Dell computers are usually the cheapest or close to and I feel that the bad reputation they have is not deserved (it is mostly a memory of a time when they did have very poor service, with recent experiences carrying it on but being no more than any other company).

Really? I've owned two Acers and never had any troubles with them. In fact, the Acer desktop we bought 9 or 10 years ago still works like it's new (and that's after my daft sister infected it with spyware forcing a system reboot ... three times [admittedly, she would be better off with a mac, but I'm assuming that the OP is tech literate]).

Dells I've seen good things with too, but Dell / Acer / HP are all pretty good in the end.

[Ichneumon]

I'd second the advise for checking with your university for requirements. Mine had a few very odd requirements (such as running Windows Xp!) and they even threatened given the students a fine if they didn't have a compatible laptop.

Rawhide's point is a good one. I use my macbook as my main gaming machine nowadays and it works very well. However, given the OP's price range, I'd say an apple computer is out of the question.

I've had really bad experiences with Acer, Packett Bell and Dell, but I guess that doesn't mean much as everybody's experience will be different.

[SurlySeraph]

You do realise that macs can run windows at full speed (http://ptech.allthingsd.com/20060406/apple-boot-camp-macs/), right?


As for Windows PCs, I would never ever buy Acer again, they use some very dodgee practices. Dell computers are usually the cheapest or close to and I feel that the bad reputation they have is not deserved (it is mostly a memory of a time when they did have very poor service, with recent experiences carrying it on but being no more than any other company).

The issue I've had with Dell is that their laptop powercords inevitably break and are extremely hard to replace, and that the batteries' useful life gets very short within a couple years. But they're not terrible.

[factotum]

The Dell powercord issue is easily fixed by not wrapping the cable tightly around it when putting it away--that's what breaks it, because the narrow, curved surface allows the bit where the cord comes out to flex far too much.

PlatinumJester, you say you want to game on this machine, but what sort of games are you talking about? Generally, the 3D hardware in laptops of the price range you're looking at won't be much cop, so running Crysis in full detail at max resolution may not be possible... :smallsmile:

[Castaras]

As for Windows PCs, I would never ever buy Acer again, they use some very dodgee practices. Dell computers are usually the cheapest or close to and I feel that the bad reputation they have is not deserved (it is mostly a memory of a time when they did have very poor service, with recent experiences carrying it on but being no more than any other company).

The reasons I do not recommend Dell are:

- One of the dell laptops my family has has 8 bugs with its screen. No, correction, it has 8 thunderbugs In it's screen. This occurred the year after Dell had the laptop for 6 weeks (when they said it'd be gone for at most 2) to try and fix the screen after it had... thunderbugs in its screen. :smallannoyed: Add in the fact that they delievered the laptop on the one day of the week we couldn't collect it (and informed them of such in good time)...:smallannoyed:
- The components Dell computers use is "Special". As in, only Dell parts can go into many dell computers. So if you have something break down, no you can't just go to your nearby shop and get a replacement. You have to pack it up and send it off to Dell customer service. Which is, as I have said before, bollocks.

RE: Acer computers - what sort of dodgy practices? All the times I've used Acer they've been very good.

[Jack Squat]

The reasons I do not recommend Dell are:

- One of the dell laptops my family has has 8 bugs with its screen. No, correction, it has 8 thunderbugs In it's screen. This occurred the year after Dell had the laptop for 6 weeks (when they said it'd be gone for at most 2) to try and fix the screen after it had... thunderbugs in its screen. :smallannoyed: Add in the fact that they delievered the laptop on the one day of the week we couldn't collect it (and informed them of such in good time)...:smallannoyed:
- The components Dell computers use is "Special". As in, only Dell parts can go into many dell computers. So if you have something break down, no you can't just go to your nearby shop and get a replacement. You have to pack it up and send it off to Dell customer service. Which is, as I have said before, bollocks.

RE: Acer computers - what sort of dodgy practices? All the times I've used Acer they've been very good.

I've repaired my Dell a computer times. Screen and keyboard thus far (and the screen to the cable, but that turned out to be unnecessary), will probably end up actually replacing the headphone port before I get a new laptop (I have one lying around, but it requires some soldering, so I've been putting it off). I've never had problems getting parts, though I have ordered all of them offline. My current laptop is about 4 1/2 years old, so the problems I had are more than likely from age and general abuse.

I've heard stories of how bad their customer service is, but I've never dealt with them myself as I always opt out of the warranties as best I can, figuring I can probably deal with all the problems myself.

[SurlySeraph]

Their customer service isn't AOL bad, but it is quite bad. Generally they'll tell you that whatever the issue is, you need to buy something new to replace it.

[KenderWizard]

Some universities have requirements, and that's important to look into. In my experience, however, a lot of universities do deals with computer companies, and offer laptops and desktops at a bit of a reduction, that'll definitely fulfill all the requirements, because they're preapproved by the university. It might be worth checking if your university has a computer store or special deals on certain computers bought through a particular group.

My university, for example, used to have a good system where you got 10% off certain Dell and certain Apple laptops: a cheap, a generally good and a high-end example of each, basically. But now they've gone into an exclusivity deal with Apple, which is really annoying, because the high-end Dell option was cheaper than the cheap-and-nasty Apple option. Which is why I bought an Asus!

[Gullara]

I have a Asus 1000HE and it works great. It is a netbook though, I don't know if that's a problem.

It has a 10" screen and a 6 hour battery life, that's the actual battery life.

As for games I use my desktop for that and the netbook doesn't have a disc drive. You can alway purchase then download Diablo 2, Starcraft, and Warcraft 3 online with a Battle.net account, and It runs those pretty well.

They cost $450.

[Erloas]

My biggest problem with Dell is they are more expensive for the same hardware compared to most other companies. I'm sure there are specific examples of times when that is not the case, but in general they are. Even with discounts through a college they still might be more expensive.
I've only had to deal with their customer support once, and it wasn't for a repair issue, it was for shipping issues, of which they basically said there was no problem.

As for recommending a specific computer, it is probably easiest for you to find a few computers that fit your price range, that you think fit your needs, and that you can actually order where you live, link them here and we'll do our best to say which is the best for the price.

Since computer parts change a lot in price around the world, as well as things like VATS, we can't just convert your price range into what we are used to and expect it to actually work out that way. I also know that not all models are available in every country even if it is the same company.

Oh, and unless you have a specific reason for needing a laptop, look at getting a desktop instead. You get a lot more power for the same price and you have a lot more options as well. Most people don't actually use a laptop in ways in which a laptop is necessary. I've had a number of roommates who's laptop never left a specific table. Even in college when I knew a lot of people had laptops there was only ever one guy that actually used it in class, and even then it was only in a few classes and half of the time it wasn't being used for school related activities.

[valadil]

As for Windows PCs, I would never ever buy Acer again, they use some very dodgee practices. Dell computers are usually the cheapest or close to and I feel that the bad reputation they have is not deserved (it is mostly a memory of a time when they did have very poor service, with recent experiences carrying it on but being no more than any other company).

I'm done with Acer too. My 5 month old router's firmware went bad and Acer's tech support was the worst I've ever encountered. They change their numbers and don't advertise the new ones. I had to call laptop support and get the router number from them. They couldn't even transfer me to the other support line - I had to wait in line again and even after that their service was still useless.

Dell is reasonable. Their products don't last forever, but their service is decent. I'm biased because I used to work in a dell certified repair shop. It means I favor them, but I've also seen first hand what their support is like. The other killer feature in Dell's favor is that they don't screw around with your hardware too much. Whenever I've seen an IBM, Sony, or Toshiba installing linux on it requires all sorts of weird kernel patches. Dell is pretty much vanilla.

[factotum]

I don't have a problem with Dell support either. If they have a fault it's that the first line support *have* to go through their checklist of stuff to try before they'll send an engineer (have you restarted it, etc), but once they get to the point of sending an engineer out things get fixed rapidly and efficiently. (This is with on site support, of course).

As for price, I'd like to know all these other companies who charge less than Dell--Dell machines are generally pretty reasonable on cost.

[Dr. Bath]

I wouldn't recommend acer, but it's not that terrible.

I bought an acer laptop for uni last year, and it's been ok, although it has slowed down dramatically over the course of its lifetime, which is sad really. It was good value though, and I think at least some of the problem is OS based (avoid vista. really)

[Rawhide]

Most of the time you will find that Macs are slightly more expensive than an equivalent Windows PC. There is a good reason for this, much more care has gone into all aspects of assembling the computer, software and its parts than in other desktops/laptops (see here (http://davidbau.com/archives/2006/05/24/owning_the_experience.html) for more info, also includes information on one very, very dodgy Acer practice). This is not always the case, you can find and buy Macs cheaper than most other Windows PCs at different times, as well as some competitive deals within the same price range.

[Gullara]

Most of the time you will find that Macs are slightly more expensive than an equivalent Windows PC. There is a good reason for this, much more care has gone into all aspects of assembling the computer, software and its parts than in other desktops/laptops (see here (http://davidbau.com/archives/2006/05/24/owning_the_experience.html) for more info, also includes information on one very, very dodgy Acer practice). This is not always the case, you can find and buy Macs cheaper than most other Windows PCs at different times, as well as some competitive deals within the same price range.

Not always the case is right. Have you seen Alienware laptops, pricy. There isn't really a Mac equivalent though. Can't beat the good old PC:smallcool:

[Rawhide]

I have an Alienware laptop. Picked up from Dell's factory outlet because there is no way I'd pay full price...

[Klose_the_Sith]

Most of the time you will find that Macs are slightly more expensive than an equivalent Windows PC. There is a good reason for this, much more care has gone into all aspects of assembling the computer, software and its parts than in other desktops/laptops (see here (http://davidbau.com/archives/2006/05/24/owning_the_experience.html) for more info, also includes information on one very, very dodgy Acer practice). This is not always the case, you can find and buy Macs cheaper than most other Windows PCs at different times, as well as some competitive deals within the same price range.

$2000 is not *slightly* more expensive. It is ludicrously more expensive. Heck, it was $2000 more and before upgrades it still didn't match my specs.

That article also didn't explain why Macs are better explained. It just gave a potential motivation for them and that they have dedicated salesmen.

Admittedly, the Acer thing is a bit dodgy. Buuuuut ... eh.

My Acer's are workhorses. All the Macs I've seen are more comparable to ponies. They might look good, if you're into that sort of thing and yes there is some power, plus some advantages that the workhorse won't have, but it doesn't carry any might behind itself.

[Gullara]

I have an Alienware laptop. Picked up from Dell's factory outlet because there is no way I'd pay full price...

lol, I'd say.

When it comes to desktops my opinion is to build it yourself. The trouble is figuring out what parts to get then actually assembling it. Luckily for me I had a friend who is very knowledgeable in said topic. I splurged $1400 on my tricked out gaming rig.

[Rawhide]

I'm not sure of your specific circumstance, but if you are correct in that it was $2000 more, that would be a very rare instance and an unfortunate time to look for prices. The only possible explanation I can think of was that one company had just done some major price discounting while Apple was overdue to refresh their line (right after Apple refreshes their lineup is the best time to buy, value wise).

[Erloas]

Do we even have to start the Apple debate again... I mean the OP specifically said they weren't an option, his price range reconfirms this.

As much as I like debating why Apple sucks, this doesn't seem to be the thread for it.

[Klose_the_Sith]

I'm not sure of your specific circumstance, but if you are correct in that it was $2000 more, that would be a very rare instance and an unfortunate time to look for prices. The only possible explanation I can think of was that one company had just done some major price discounting while Apple was overdue to refresh their line (right after Apple refreshes their lineup is the best time to buy, value wise).

I bought a $1000 Acer laptop last Christmas. When you brought up Apple I looked at their webstore, then straight to their fanciest model.

It had a better processor, but worse everything else. It could be upgraded to match mine, but the price was well over $2000.

That said, Erloas is right. I'll stop talking :smallsmile:

[Xyk]

I really like my HP laptop, though the power cord did go out once. Those things are obnoxiously expensive to replace.

[Rawhide]

I bought a $1000 Acer laptop last Christmas. When you brought up Apple I looked at their webstore, then straight to their fanciest model.

It had a better processor, but worse everything else. It could be upgraded to match mine, but the price was well over $2000.

That said, Erloas is right. I'll stop talking :smallsmile:

Soultion: Go to an Apple authorised store. You can get much better prices and deals (particularly for upgrades) as the online store will not undercut their resellers.

[IonDragon]

The issue I've had with Dell is that their laptop powercords inevitably break and are extremely hard to replace, and that the batteries' useful life gets very short within a couple years. But they're not terrible.
They're not really hard to replace though... A $20 universal adapter usually comes with a Dell adapter and if not then you can get one for an additional $2.

Most of the time you will find that Macs are slightly more expensive than an equivalent Windows PC. There is a good reason for this, much more care has gone into all aspects of assembling the computer, software and its parts than in other desktops/laptops (see here (http://davidbau.com/archives/2006/05/24/owning_the_experience.html) for more info, also includes information on one very, very dodgy Acer practice). This is not always the case, you can find and buy Macs cheaper than most other Windows PCs at different times, as well as some competitive deals within the same price range.
Sure macs come with plenty of free software. PCs also come with all the free software you could ever want (The Pirate Bay).

There is one reason and one reason only to ever get a mac: I hear tell the laptops can have SLI video cards. If you need to do high end video editing on the go... then I guess you should get your self a mac.

@OP: For a new university student, I would suggest an IBM Thinkpad. Probably one of the 400 line. I used to work repairs, and I hate seeing a student have to shell out for replacement parts. Thinkpads are remarkable resilient and when they break they are easy to fix.

Alternatively, Dell. Do your research though and make sure you're getting a good model. I don't know how much computer you're going to be able to get for those prices. IIRC 1 Euro = ~$1.5 USD, if that's the case then you could get a rather low end performance computer at those prices. You may be better off getting a netbook and saving up to get a quality desktop.

My desktop was about (if I were to re-buy my old parts new) $700-800 for an AMD x6, 4GB (2x2) RAM, nVidia 8800GTS.

[thorgrim29]

You can get ASUS laptops for pretty cheap, and I've had no complaint for mine except for battery life, but that's what I get for having a I7 I guess (only had it a few months tough)

[Jack Squat]

PCs also come with all the free software you could ever want (The Pirate Bay).

How about sticking to legal free software? There's still plenty of it, but I never really use any of the stuff that comes pre-loaded on my computers. If you want useful stuff, you're probably going to have to search for it. With Macs, a lot of it is pre-loaded.

[IonDragon]

There's plenty of legal software there. I never suggested anyone do anything that may be against the law. There's also plenty of free software on Sourceforge, and even by the most conservative of interpretations when the creator says "YOU CAN HAVE THIS FOR FREE. REALLY, IT'S OK" taking it can't be against the law.

[PlatinumJester]

Hey sorry, I didn't reply earlier but yesterday was preoccupied with some good ol' DnD.

Thanks for all the suggestions and after careful consideration I'm might ask my parents if I can buy a desktop though they'll probably say no (but if they yes suggestions would be great).

Also though I'm sure macs are great when you know how to use them, unfortunately I can't. Last time I tried to use my dads mac I ended up nearly throwing it against the wall in confusion. Kinda like a caveman.

[Rawhide]

You're welcome.


While you did mention that you didn't want a Mac, I felt it important to point out that the reason you didn't want one was moot, and your new reason is as well. Macs can run Windows at full speed (no slowdown from virtualisation because it is running natively on the hardware, not in a virtual environment).

This means that you can install Windows on the Mac and:

Play games
Use an operating system you are familiar for with most of the time while you get used to MacOS X
Use free and commercial software from a wider range of OSes


That's not to tell you to get a Mac or start a debate on what's better, just to stop you from ruling something out because of an incorrect assumption.

[factotum]

This means that you can install Windows on the Mac and:

Play games
Use an operating system you are familiar for with most of the time while you get used to MacOS X
Use free and commercial software from a wider range of OSes




Provided you buy a copy of Windows, of course...

[Syka]

What is your major? This will pretty much help in determining whether or not a laptop or desktop is better. You can make a convincing case for a desktop that way.

For instance. If you are in liberal arts field (English, History, Classics, etc) you probably won't need a laptop. Even some of the hard sciences I'd imagine don't need laptops for classes. Engineering probably would, and as a business student, I know it's very helpful. When I was in my undergrad, my laptop acted as a desktop. Now, getting my MBA, having a portable computer was a necessity for class work.

Assuming you'll be carrying it around, weight may or may not be a factor for you. Battery life might be as well. But, frankly, if it's mostly gaming you are worried about a desktop is your best bet and will give you the best bang for the buck.

Also, let's drop the Mac discussion, 'kay? I don't hate Macs. I LOVED their tech support. The Genius' were wonderful people. I adore my iPhone to death. But they are friggen expensive. The lowest I've ever seen a basic MacBook is 899USD. A MacBook Pro is at least 200USD more, once again at the basic level. The components you are getting are not as good as what you can get in a PC laptop half the price.

AFAIK, from what I've read, most of their internal stuff isn't even manufactured by them. They use a lot of the same hardware as PC's. The MacBook Pro I was looking at was approximately 1400USD. I got my Asus, with better RAM, etc. for less than half of that (about 650).

I will totally be shelling out for one one day. Oz will probably need one far sooner for his graphics stuff. My sister will probably need one soon. But for a beginning university student on a tight budget, unless he's doing a lot of graphics intensive stuff, I can't see justifying the expense. Especially since I can pretty much guarantee it's outside of the budget he gave.

[Trixie]

While you did mention that you didn't want a Mac, I felt it important to point out that the reason you didn't want one was moot, and your new reason is as well. Macs can run Windows at full speed (no slowdown from virtualisation because it is running natively on the hardware, not in a virtual environment).

To be fair, you can do this, but it is a proposition that is going to lose a big amount of money, especially if OSX is rarely used.

What is wrong with Apple in one picture:


http://9gag.com/photo/33677_540.jpg

By the way, I have tested XnView. Hmmm. I don't know. I haven't found one thing that it does better than Irfan, and the menus are far more overcrowded. Though, tabbed pictures are nice. Is there something I have missed that makes it much better?

[Don Julio Anejo]

People, I don't exactly get why you judge macs on their high price for low specs. Macs were never about that. Yes, they're very much overpriced for the specs they offer, yes, you're buying a mac, which limits your software options and yes, there is a slight learning curve if you're not used to macs.

However, macs were always about the intangibles. Things, that while don't directly affect the specs, make the computer much better and easier to use. Let me put it this way, if you're buying a general use car, chances are any sedan with 120+ horsepower will do (unless you're specifically planning on streetracing or something). On the other hand, whether it has an air conditioner or not will make a huge difference. Or power windows. Or hell, a stereo system. Even if it will have worse technical specs (aka horsepower, engine volume, transmission type, etc).

See my point? Macs are that car. You buy them when you know you want a computer that won't break on you (and will get promptly fixed if it does, don't even have to send it - now most towns have apple stores). You buy them for an S-IPS screen that comes standard (the best LCD type and really the only one suitable for photography and video editing, other types significantly screw up colors), which are expensive to buy separately. You buy them for a 5-7 hour battery life on a super-light high-spec laptop (for comparison - my ex's 15" Macbook Pro weighs the same as my 10" netbook, the battery lasts almost the same (her 6 hours vs. my 7ish) and she gets a full-size, full spec computer).

Now that I've said it, I'm not saying the OP should get a mac (all things considered, he probably shouldn't as it's too expensive and none of the above things are really needed). I am, however, saying that macs are very, very good at what they do. It's just not high-end specs for a reasonable price.

[Ichneumon]

I agree on the fact that macs are worth the money, if you have the amounts required. Sure, spec-wise you can buy a better desktop/laptop/tablet any day, but there are small details, such as the magnetic power cord on macbooks or the multi-touch trackpad that make it, in my view, worth the money.

However, I'd like to second Syka's statement that we should end the mac discussion, as the OP can't afford one.

[Trixie]

Macs were never about that.

Yup, they were all about flair, hype, and poor quality parts for maximum price. Oh, and looks mattering more than internal engineering.

Also: all cables purposefully made non-standard so that you are forced to pay 50$ for each one. See that modified USB cable above? Only Apple could do something like this, they even reinforced that wedge with steel so you can't cut it off.


Things, that while don't directly affect the specs, make the computer much better and easier to use. Let me put it this way, if you're buying a general use car, chances are any sedan with 120+ horsepower will do (unless you're specifically planning on streetracing or something).

Sadly, people who use computers for a living need every bit of power they can get. For entertainment, too. Only when computer serves like glorified typewriter power does not count.

The comparison is more like well painted Ford vs dull black Ferrari. And, that Ford can only ride on AppleGas (tm), sold at five times the price.


You buy them when you know you want a computer that won't break on you (and will get promptly fixed if it does, don't even have to send it - now most towns have apple stores).

Good PCs have Next Bussiness Day fix policy, not Wait Up To Four Weeks for fix one.


You buy them for an S-IPS screen that comes standard (the best LCD type and really the only one suitable for photography and video editing, other types significantly screw up colors), which are expensive to buy separately.

S-IPS was good back in 1998. There are better screens, even more advanced IPS variants. Apple shouldn't be trusted with anything they say.


You buy them for a 5-7 hour battery life on a super-light high-spec laptop (for comparison - my ex's 15" Macbook Pro weighs the same as my 10" netbook, the battery lasts almost the same (her 6 hours vs. my 7ish) and she gets a full-size, full spec computer).

Thin profile PCs with power management get more than this. Asus/Acer have models with 12-16 hours range (http://www.lockergnome.com/theoracle/2010/01/11/12-hour-laptop-battery-life-%E2%80%93-asus-has-it/), with better specs. For less.

[Gullara]

People, I don't exactly get why you judge macs on their high price for low specs. Macs were never about that. Yes, they're very much overpriced for the specs they offer, yes, you're buying a mac, which limits your software options and yes, there is a slight learning curve if you're not used to macs.

However, macs were always about the intangibles. Things, that while don't directly affect the specs, make the computer much better and easier to use. Let me put it this way, if you're buying a general use car, chances are any sedan with 120+ horsepower will do (unless you're specifically planning on streetracing or something). On the other hand, whether it has an air conditioner or not will make a huge difference. Or power windows. Or hell, a stereo system. Even if it will have worse technical specs (aka horsepower, engine volume, transmission type, etc).

See my point? Macs are that car. You buy them when you know you want a computer that won't break on you (and will get promptly fixed if it does, don't even have to send it - now most towns have apple stores). You buy them for an S-IPS screen that comes standard (the best LCD type and really the only one suitable for photography and video editing, other types significantly screw up colors), which are expensive to buy separately. You buy them for a 5-7 hour battery life on a super-light high-spec laptop (for comparison - my ex's 15" Macbook Pro weighs the same as my 10" netbook, the battery lasts almost the same (her 6 hours vs. my 7ish) and she gets a full-size, full spec computer).

Now that I've said it, I'm not saying the OP should get a mac (all things considered, he probably shouldn't as it's too expensive and none of the above things are really needed). I am, however, saying that macs are very, very good at what they do. It's just not high-end specs for a reasonable price.

I decided to stop reading after the first paragraph, because then I'd agree with you. :smallamused:


PCs rule!

[Syka]

I'll add I got a 13" Toshiba (weighing in at 3.8 pounds) with a 6 hour battery life (normal use) for 599USD. My current 15", 5 pound, 8-10 hour battery life (normal use) Asus was only 650USD. The Asus also comes with a DVD drive, dedicated VRAM, among other nice features.


My point is not to bash Mac's. It's that buying a Mac on a limited budget is just, frankly, not feasible if you don't need it for a specific purpose such as video editing. It's really nice if you've got the bucks, but if you don't...why not go for something with more power for less?

And I actually considered a MacBook Pro while I was computer shopping. I loved their service. I just couldn't justify the 600+ USD difference when my intention was to not drain my savings account.

Additionally, unless your school/organization is definitely Mac friendly, it could cause compatibility issues. My friend in the Army can't download many documents because they won't work.

[Don Julio Anejo]

Yup, they were all about flair, hype, and poor quality parts for maximum price. Oh, and looks mattering more than internal engineering.
Up until recently, with newer Asus models, Apple had awesome internal engineering. In addition to that, looks DO matter. You may claim that a $5 Walmart t-shirt may server the same purpose as a $150 Dolce & Gabbana polo, but ultimately, they have nothing in common. I'd like to see you in a club in a 5 dollar tee.... If you could even get in (not saying I'd spend $150 on a polo, just making a point). Same with macs - there are a lot of environments where looks matter. Suppose you're a hedge fund manager... None of your clients will take you seriously if you're sporting a big, clunky Toshiba that just screams "look at me, I'm cheap," no matter how good its specs are. High-end designer with an ugly laptop? That's reason enough not to hire him right there.


Sadly, people who use computers for a living need every bit of power they can get. For entertainment, too. Only when computer serves like glorified typewriter power does not count.

Using a computer for a living does not necessitate doing parallel backflips on it. Case in point: my dad and his business partner run a hedge fund. His partner takes care of all the client work, my dad daytrades. What this means is that he's got 3 24" monitors hooked up to one computer in his office to display all the quotes and charts. And he does all of his trading online. I'd say it qualifies using a computer for a living. The fun part? His system is still running on a 4 year old P4 (not even dual core) and it works just fine.

The comparison is more like well painted Ford vs dull black Ferrari. And, that Ford can only ride on AppleGas (tm), sold at five times the price.
No, see, it's more like comparing a Mitsubishi Lancer or something (all show, moderate substance) to a 1960's Charger. Sure, can't really beat a classic muscle car when it comes to power and performance unless you've got a modern muscle car. But on the other hand, no ABS, no power steering, no air conditioning, nothing but a casette player, no power windows and "no" a lot of other things will not make me want to drive a Charger.

Good PCs have Next Bussiness Day fix policy, not Wait Up To Four Weeks for fix one.
The only companies I can think of that do this are Sony and Fujitsu. Both are just as overpriced as Macs.


S-IPS was good back in 1998. There are better screens, even more advanced IPS variants. Apple shouldn't be trusted with anything they say.

Yes, there are better screens. Standard on mid-range (e.g. around $1200-1500) laptops? Not really, no. Have to buy one separately and spend something like $500.


Thin profile PCs with power management get more than this. Asus/Acer have models with 12-16 hours range (http://www.lockergnome.com/theoracle/2010/01/11/12-hour-laptop-battery-life-%E2%80%93-asus-has-it/), with better specs. For less.
Yep. These are quite new though, they've been around for slightly more than a year, and came along precisely as a PC response to Macbook Pro/Air. No cheap PC alternative existed at the time and anything with a good battery was either a netbook or weighed a ton, making this a great marketing move on the part of Asus.

[Erloas]

Suppose you're a hedge fund manager... None of your clients will take you seriously if you're sporting a big, clunky Toshiba that just screams "look at me, I'm cheap," no matter how good its specs are. High-end designer with an ugly laptop? That's reason enough not to hire him right there.
Actually if I personally were working with someone in a financial sense I would pick the person with a practical computer over a expensive "doesn't actually add anything to the functionality of the system" laptop. The last thing I want from someone managing my money is someone that has no sense of value. Someone that thinks looks are more important then value is exactly the type of person I don't want managing my money. And thats not just a Mac, but any of the high cost, low value systems.

The car comparisons are dubious at best too because every "feature" you are acting like is important is also a feature that is standard on virtually every car. The sort of features mac has over a PC is more like wipers that turn on automatically, and an extra sparkily metallic paint.
And for gaming, telling someone to buy a Mac is like telling someone if they are spending $40k on a vehicle they should by a Mercedes instead of an F-250 even though they need the vehicle to do something the car simply can't do well.
At best you are going to get mediocre gaming out of a Mac. And if you don't know any better then thats probably ok for you.
As it is Apple doesn't make a single piece component in their computers. Just like Dell, Acer, HP (pretty much everyone but Asus) Apple buy their parts from someone else that designs them and makes them and does 1-2 tiny tweaks (usually restrictive sorts of tweaks compared to their retail products) then they put it together. I know for a fact that Dell and Apple use the same company for their motherboards, Foxconn, a company enthusiasts won't even look at for motherboards. I think Apple uses Seagate drives, but I'm not sure on that, and most enthusiasts don't use Seagate either. If I remember right both Dell and Apple use SeaSonic power supplies, which are pretty good, something an enthusiasts might actually buy, but its not a top of the line PSU either.
There are only about 5 companies that make LCD panels, and they supply those panels for all the TVs, and monitors that everyone makes. Apple isn't one of those companies, every monitor/laptop screen they sell is a panel that can be found in another product. It wasn't even that long ago that Apple was sued by some people because they were trying to pass of low end 6-bit panels as true color 8-bit panels.

And that is my contribution to this thread that isn't at all about Apple...


Oh, and you are holding it wrong.

[factotum]

The only companies I can think of that do this are Sony and Fujitsu. Both are just as overpriced as Macs.


Dell do a Next Business Day service option on their laptops. It costs extra, but still not enough extra to push it into Apple territory.

Oh, and the analogy with the 60s muscle car--you forgot to mention that you can't beat them for speed unless you actually want to go round a corner in one. :smallsmile:

[Don Julio Anejo]

Oh, and the analogy with the 60s muscle car--you forgot to mention that you can't beat them for speed unless you actually want to go round a corner in one. :smallsmile:
That was my point. You can't beat them for speed but unless you're a streetracer or a bankrobber, chances are you won't need it.

[Gullara]

That was my point. You can't beat them for speed but unless you're a streetracer or a bankrobber, chances are you won't need it.

I'd still rather pay less money for one.

[Klose_the_Sith]

That was my point. You can't beat them for speed but unless you're a streetracer or a bankrobber, chances are you won't need it.

The problem being that as the superior specs are mandatory for high-end gaming and the like, you're saying that speed is unnecessary to a forum of street racers :smallwink:

[Rawhide]

To be fair, you can do this, but it is a proposition that is going to lose a big amount of money, especially if OSX is rarely used.

What is wrong with Apple in one picture:


http://9gag.com/photo/33677_540.jpg
To be fair, that indentation does not in any way prohibit you from using any other cable on the USB keyboard it was designed for. The only thing it prevents is you using that cable on another device. If the cable needs replacing, any standard cable can be purchased.

Why? I'm not sure. Perhaps they didn't want that cable used for anything else other than the USB keyboard for quality control reasons. No biggie anyway, as USB cables are cheap and there is no need to buy a special USB cable when you need a replacement.


By the way, I have tested XnView. Hmmm. I don't know. I haven't found one thing that it does better than Irfan, and the menus are far more overcrowded. Though, tabbed pictures are nice. Is there something I have missed that makes it much better?

This is really the wrong place for this but I will say that the interface of XnView is sleeker, I find it easier to use with more functionality that I need and less buggy. Try opening various TIFF files, IrfanView does not open/display some TIFF correctly, while other programs like XnView work fine.

P.S. Have you used the shell-intergration with preview function?


---


All I'm saying about Macs is that you should not rule out a Mac for any of the reasons that have been mentioned, because they are not correct. Not even price (it is generally expected that a Mac is more expensive than a super budget PC manufacturer, but this is not necessarily the case and if it is, it is not necessarily by very much).

You have to have a program that can open the files you will need to open and that can sometimes be a difficulty with MacOS as the programs are not always available (though this isn't nearly as big a problem now as it used to be, especially with MacOS X being UNIX 03 certified), but even if you can't find a commercial or free (many Linux applications have been ported to MacOS X) program that can open the file, you can either run Microsoft Windows in a virtual environment, or natively and without any speed loss (I feel like a broken record here - people seem to forget that with a Macintosh, you can still run Windows when you need it without any speed issues, which negates any potential drawbacks of using a different operating system - there is no special fuel that is "required", nor is it limited to only running on certain "roads").

Price could be a factor, in that what Apple offers might be too expensive for your needs or not be as cheap as a particular PC you are looking at, but you shouldn't rule it out completely out of hand because it might not be. It is a good idea to check to see what the current situation is.

Note: If you buy the Mac at an authorised store, rather than online, you can also pick up an OEM copy of Windows at the same time, which will save you some money on using dual operating systems.

[Syka]

When your budget is 700$ max, a Mac is out. As I said, the cheapest MacBook I've ever seen (not used or through a sketchy party) was 899$. The one that did what I needed it to do was, minimum, 1099$. The one that was actually decent for what I wanted it to do with 1199$, I think.

The PC I got, which is BETTER than what I needed, was between 599$ and 650$. That is almost twice as expensive.

One of the OP's requirements was working within a budget.

A Mac is not within that budget.

And frankly, budget is a pretty good reason to avoid a Mac.

(Just did some conversions. IIRC, his budget was between 500 and 900 USD (assuming the Google converter worked). If he was willing to go with a low-end MacBook, he could do it. MacBook Pro (the decent-for-college version) would still be out of the price range.)

[factotum]

(Just did some conversions. IIRC, his budget was between 500 and 900 USD (assuming the Google converter worked). If he was willing to go with a low-end MacBook, he could do it. MacBook Pro (the decent-for-college version) would still be out of the price range.)

You can't do direct conversions like that--prices are always more expensive in the UK than the American equivalent. As an example, the cheapest MacBook listed on the Apple UK website is £849--the US equivalent model is $999, which is equivalent to about £650 at current exchange rates!

[thorgrim29]

Thing is.... all I'm getting from the pro mac crowd is: Yeah, they're worse computers specs wise, they cost more, they have ****ty compatibility (both regarding hard and software), but they're so very cool it's still worth it... Truly they have the best marketing department around, no doubt on that, but the best R&D and the best manufacturing plants? I've heard nothing to convince me (as in, ever).

[Gullara]

Everybody please, if we don't stop this Mac vs. PC argument despite the fact PCs are better, the thread will get closed:smalltongue: