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Ilmryn
2010-08-30, 08:29 PM
Title says all.

drengnikrafe
2010-08-30, 08:31 PM
Well, I don't have all the finer points memorized, but combining the two makes your strength approximately, what, 50? Then you can throw rocks up to several thousand pounds, which deal crushing damage equal to more HP than pretty much anything has. Ever.

herrhauptmann
2010-08-30, 08:39 PM
It's the fact that you can throw objects up to your medium or heavy load. And when tossing rocks (or chunks of heavier elements off the periodic table) you deal damage based on the weight of the object thrown.
As stated with the combination, it becomes really easy to boost your strength off the charts, so your light load alone ends up around 900 pounds.

Private-Prinny
2010-08-30, 10:13 PM
Let's take, for simplicity's sake, a Goliath (with bought-off LA).

Start with 18 Str, +4 racial, +5 levels, +5 tome, +6 item, +20 War Hulk. That's 58 Str.

A Hulking Hurler can throw anything that he can carry as a light load (medium with Overburdened Heave). For a 58 Str Large character, that's 51200 lbs (102400 w/OH). Combine that with the otherwise useless Natural Heavyweight feat and it becomes 102400 lbs (204800 w/OH).

Using Improvised Weapon rules, that means the heaviest thing you can throw without cheese would deal 1027d6 damage (avg. 3594). And that's without cheese.

Esser-Z
2010-08-30, 10:15 PM
Basically, you throw really huge stuff and it squishes people.

shadow_archmagi
2010-08-30, 10:19 PM
WhohoO! As I type this, no one mentioned the REASON why it does so much damage:

The table for how much you can lift eventually just says "four times as much for every 10 extra STR"

The table for weight-to-damage for improvised weapons eventually just says "And an extra xd6 for every x pounds"

That means that every 10 points of strength quadruples your damage. How many times do you have to quadruple your damage before things get insane?

BunnyMaster42
2010-08-30, 10:28 PM
WhohoO! As I type this, no one mentioned the REASON why it does so much damage:

The table for how much you can lift eventually just says "four times as much for every 10 extra STR"

The table for weight-to-damage for improvised weapons eventually just says "And an extra xd6 for every x pounds"

That means that every 10 points of strength quadruples your damage. How many times do you have to quadruple your damage before things get insane?

And then there's the whole bit that says sharp objects deal damage as objects twice their weight...

Drakevarg
2010-08-30, 10:33 PM
And then there's the whole bit that says sharp objects deal damage as objects twice their weight...

Windmill blade = throwing knife?

Tyndmyr
2010-08-30, 10:44 PM
I feel compelled to point out that belt of the wide earth doubles your carrying capacity. If damage is linked to carrying capacity, then doubling it for 4k gold strikes me as a fine bargain.

The issue of how you craft so many heavy blades, and how you would carry them does arise, though. Such a character would make cloud look positively conservative with regards to weapon size.

Private-Prinny
2010-08-30, 10:49 PM
I feel compelled to point out that belt of the wide earth doubles your carrying capacity. If damage is linked to carrying capacity, then doubling it for 4k gold strikes me as a fine bargain.

Actually, once you get into the 50s for Str, you can get a higher carrying capacity by using a Belt of Giant Strength +6.

The Glyphstone
2010-08-30, 10:51 PM
I feel compelled to point out that belt of the wide earth doubles your carrying capacity. If damage is linked to carrying capacity, then doubling it for 4k gold strikes me as a fine bargain.

The issue of how you craft so many heavy blades, and how you would carry them does arise, though. Such a character would make cloud look positively conservative with regards to weapon size.

That's why these build eventually start using obdurium or condensed neutronium shot-puts or something. Tens/hundreds of thousands of pounds of weight condensed into a ball the size of your fist/head.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-08-30, 10:56 PM
I feel compelled to point out that belt of the wide earth doubles your carrying capacity. If damage is linked to carrying capacity, then doubling it for 4k gold strikes me as a fine bargain.

The issue of how you craft so many heavy blades, and how you would carry them does arise, though. Such a character would make cloud look positively conservative with regards to weapon size.

Actually, once you get into the 50s for Str, you can get a higher carrying capacity by using a Belt of Giant Strength +6.



Why not have both? with the rules in the MIC you can enchant your belt of wide earth to also grant a +6 str.

Tyndmyr
2010-08-30, 10:57 PM
Actually, once you get into the 50s for Str, you can get a higher carrying capacity by using a Belt of Giant Strength +6.

Thanks to MiC(which contains the belt of the wide earth anyway), you can just tack that strength bonus onto the existing belt. Why choose when you can have both?

Edit: Ninjaed.

The shot puts are an interesting concept...I hadn't realized any existing materials were quite that ridiculously heavy. Handy, though.

shadow_archmagi
2010-08-30, 10:58 PM
Oh, and I should mention that War Hulk is like Fighter, but instead of bonus feats, it gets +STR on a regular basis.


Here's a quick build I just whipped up now:

BASE STR: 18
RACE: ORC +4 (22)
BARBARIAN LEVELS: 5 (Because full BAB is always nice) (23 STR now)
HULKING HURLER LEVELS: 1
WAR HULK LEVELS: 10: Granting +20 STR (44)

So then, at level 6, he first starts being able to throw things.

Now, the first 400 pounds deal 5d6, and then after that it's 200=1d6

So, as soon as he gets that first hurler level, he has a STR of 23. If he bought a belt of +3 STR, then he's looking at 250 pound payloads, for 5d6 each. 30 damage per attack isn't too bad for a level 6 character.

Now then, let's check back in with him at level 10. Now he's got four levels of War Hulk, boosting his STR up by 8. He also has a +6 belt now, which means his effective STR is 14 higher, for a nice 37. According to the chart, that's equal to 27x4, or 364x4. So right now he's dealing 7d6. Still not very impressive.

Let's check back at level 16. At this point, the party artificer has gone ahead and crafted him a +16 STR belt, at the cost of just about all his WBL. He also had 44 STR anyway, bringing him an effective STR of 60.

That's 40 above 20, so to calculate carrying capacity now we take 133x4x4x4x4. That's 34048, or 89d6 damage. Now he's hitting for an average of 300. Oh wait; he got that x2 capacity belt? Looks like he's actually hitting for 600 damage.

It takes him 2 rounds to K.O. the Tarrasque. And this isn't a really complicated build, this is just something I threw together in 10 minutes. A more dedicated player could get it much worse.

Tyndmyr
2010-08-30, 11:29 PM
PS: He also has rage.

Flickerdart
2010-08-30, 11:36 PM
He can also pick up enemies and throw them at other enemies, effectively a 2-for-1 deal when it comes to murder. Only the cheesiest of uberchargers can begin to compete with a simple Warhulking Hurler build.

DementedFellow
2010-08-30, 11:45 PM
Centaur is a quadroped and they have even more carrying capacity.

Adumbration
2010-08-30, 11:50 PM
Centaur is a quadroped and they have even more carrying capacity.

Or Bariaur, if you mind the RHD.

BunnyMaster42
2010-08-30, 11:56 PM
BASE STR: 18
RACE: ORC +4 (22)
BARBARIAN LEVELS: 5 (Because full BAB is always nice) (23 STR now)
HULKING HURLER LEVELS: 1
WAR HULK LEVELS: 10: Granting +20 STR (44)


The only real thing wrong here is that you need to be at least large for both War Hulk and Hulking Hurler, so a plain orc wouldn't work. You'd probably want to take another level of Hulking Hurler or two to pick up Overburdened Heave and/or Area Attack because face it, the ablilty to throw heavier things is good, as is the ability to hit pretty much anything with said object.

Also, I'm not sure if you can legally get an item that boosts an ability past +6 pre-epic. But otherwise, it's a perfectly fine build, and shows just how insane a Hulking Hurler can get, even with minimal effort.

Now, all you need to do is get your hands on a giant, massively heavy spiked ball with the returning property and you're set.

The Glyphstone
2010-08-31, 12:01 AM
You can if you can afford it, with the x10 multiplier for cost, and can find a 23rd-level caster to make it for you.

A +16 item would cost...2,560,000. So it'd take an entire party of 4 20th level characters pooling their WBL to buy it. Not worth it.

Tyndmyr
2010-08-31, 12:04 AM
Im tempted to run one just for the sheer awesomeness of killing enemies with other enemies.

There's also racial substitution levels and the like as alternative means of bumping stats. +6 enchant is the general limit, but you can do a lot even with that, pre epic.

ExtravagantEvil
2010-08-31, 12:14 AM
Now I'm curious, some have mentioned that they can do these builds with little to no cheese, well what's the cheesiest it can get to? I really just want to see the numbers climb, and how bad it gets.

(Now I'm afraid to have asked this, for I don't know what dark monsters can emerge from this query :smalleek:)

Flickerdart
2010-08-31, 12:17 AM
Now I'm curious, some have mentioned that they can do these builds with little to no cheese, well what's the cheesiest it can get to? I really just want to see the numbers climb, and how bad it gets.

(Now I'm afraid to have asked this, for I don't know what dark monsters can emerge from this query :smalleek:)
Here (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19873078/Hulking_Hurler_build&post_num=47#338556422) gets to 2.7 million on average by 5th page. And the thread is 103 pages.

BunnyMaster42
2010-08-31, 12:26 AM
Here.
(http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19873078/Hulking_Hurler_build&post_num=881#338559786)
That's about page 89, and nets 19,330,723,855,637,920,503,551,754d6+172 damage. Doesn't go into too much detail really, but still, once you get the tauric template involved ANYTHING goes. And that's still at ECL 20 apparently.

I'd just check the rest of that thread, it's full of cheese, just pick and choose really.

Halae
2010-08-31, 12:28 AM
Now I'm curious, some have mentioned that they can do these builds with little to no cheese, well what's the cheesiest it can get to? I really just want to see the numbers climb, and how bad it gets.

(Now I'm afraid to have asked this, for I don't know what dark monsters can emerge from this query :smalleek:)

It gets pretty massive. This is with a Centaur, for those who don't realize

To wit:

Progression
This build uses the elite ability score array: Str 15, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8. All ability score increases are dumped into Str.

ECL Class/HD/LA Feats Special
1st monstrous humanoid Power Attack
2nd monstrous humanoid +2 Str (17)
3rd LA +2 Str (19)
4th monstrous humanoid Cleave +2 Str (21)
5th LA +2 Str (23)
6th monstrous humanoid Large size
7th Lolth-touchedMM4 template LA +6 Str (29)
8th barbarian rage (33 str)
9th war hulkMH Point Blank Shot +2 Str (31/35)
10th war hulkMH +2 Str (33/39)
11th war hulkMH +2 Str, ability score increase (36/40)
12th war hulkMH Weapon Focus (50-lb rock) +2 Str (38/42)
13th hulking hurlerCW really throw anythingCW
14th war hulkMH +2 Str (40/44)
15th war hulkMH Brutal ThrowCAd +2 Str, ability score increase (43/47)
16th war hulkMH +2 Str (45/49)
17th war hulkMH +2 Str (47/51)
18th war hulkMH Natural HeavyweightPlH +2 Str (49/55)
19th war hulkMH +2 Str, ability score increase (52/56)
20th hulking hurlerCW overburdened heaveCW



Munchkin-Size Me
You can use the standard point buy to max out strength instead of getting the elite ability score array. (+3 = 59)

Belt of giant strength +6 (= 65)

Manual of gainful exercise +5 (= 70)

A runePGtF FRCS of righteous might will give a +4 size bonus to strength and increases your size to huge. (= 74)

A runePGtF FRCS of divine power will increase your BAB by 10. (It, also, gives a +6 enhancement bonus to Strength—which overlaps with the belt of giant strength—and at least 7 temporary hit points.)

At this point 2,863,104 lbs is a light load. So you can throw an improvised weapon doing 14319d6+32 points of damage (50148.5 average; damage reduction? What's that?), and your attack bonus is (+17 BAB, +32 Str, −2 size, −2 improvised thrown weapon =) +45. Anything with an AC less than 48 can only be missed on a natural 1.

Overburdened heave: 28635d6+32 (100254.5 average)

add iron golem arm +12 ac d2 25/+2 +4 con and +12 str ( 92str (when raging)) 4 a +3 lv adust (can be taken at amy time)(give a gauntlet of rust to immune to rusting)
EDIT: swordsage'd

ExtravagantEvil
2010-08-31, 12:29 AM
Those builds, are things the eldritch horrors look at with uneasiness :smalleek:.

Tyndmyr
2010-08-31, 12:36 AM
Yeah, I just got done reading Elder Evils. Such a monster would make a joke of them all.

After all, they tend to be rather big, and thus, visible from far away. Thunk.

Roga
2010-08-31, 12:49 AM
This remind me of a funny question that got asked in a game of mine with a hulking hurler.

"Hey, I've got Catch Weapon, which lets me catch and throw weapons of my size or smaller, and fling enemy and Really throw anything. Does that mean I can judo throw enemies that charge me?"

"Ehhh......I don't think that really works that way"

"Ok, what if they were flying? What's the difference between a guy flying at me in full plate and some one throwing a statue of a guy in full plate at me?"

"Hmmm"

We wound up letting him develop a feat. It still sees some use in my games.

Brickfist's Maneuver [General]
Prerequisites: Large size (or powerful build), Snatch Arrows, throw anything.
Benefit: If an opponent charges and misses you, you may take an attack of opportunity to perform this maneuver. Make an opposed strength check, if you succeed, you launch the enemy up to 30 feet in a chosen horizontal direction.

Halae
2010-08-31, 01:51 AM
This remind me of a funny question that got asked in a game of mine with a hulking hurler.

"Hey, I've got Catch Weapon, which lets me catch and throw weapons of my size or smaller, and fling enemy and Really throw anything. Does that mean I can judo throw enemies that charge me?"

"Ehhh......I don't think that really works that way"

"Ok, what if they were flying? What's the difference between a guy flying at me in full plate and some one throwing a statue of a guy in full plate at me?"

"Hmmm"

We wound up letting him develop a feat. It still sees some use in my games.

Brickfist's Maneuver [General]
Prerequisites: Large size (or powerful build), Snatch Arrows, throw anything.
Benefit: If an opponent charges and misses you, you may take an attack of opportunity to perform this maneuver. Make an opposed strength check, if you succeed, you launch the enemy up to 30 feet in a chosen horizontal direction.

I must now convince my DM to let me use that feat

shadow_archmagi
2010-08-31, 07:27 AM
Oh, don't forget to take Leadership so you can have an Artificer Cohort. Acquire multiple different +6 items and then have him use infusions to change the bonus types.

How many valid +STR bonuses are there? Letsee... Inherent, Competence, Enhancement, Morale....

(There's a 4th level infusion that says "Something that provided a named bonus now provides a different unnamed bonus." So for example if you had two rings of natural armor, you could turn one into a ring of deflection so they'd stack. For 10/min a level, admittedly, but...)

Ranger Mattos
2010-08-31, 09:13 AM
Yeah, I just got done reading Elder Evils. Such a monster would make a joke of them all.

After all, they tend to be rather big, and thus, visible from far away. Thunk.

Still can't defeat the all-powerful DM, though.

But on topic, how do people think these builds up?!?

Bayar
2010-08-31, 09:31 AM
Here is a handy list for Hulking Hurlers, courtesy of 4chan's /tg/:

Carry capacities for medium creatures

35 = 1.6 tons
45 = 6.4 tons
55 = 25.6 tons
65 = 102.4 tons
75 = 409.6 tons
85 = 1,638.4 tons
95 = 6,553.6 tons
105 = 26,214.4 tons
115 = 104,857.6 tons
125 = 419,430.4 tons
135 = 1,677,721.6 tons
145 = 6,710,886.4 tons
155 = 26,843,545.6 tons
165 = 107,374,182.4 tons
175 = 429,496,729.6 tons
185 = 1,717,986,918.4 tons
195 = 6,871,947,673.6 tons
205 = 27,487,790,694.4 tons
215 = 109,951,162,777.6 tons
225 = 439,804,651,110.4 tons
235 = 1,759,218,604,441.6 tons
245 = 7,036,874,417,766.4 tons
255 = 28,147,497,671,065.6 tons
265 = 112,589,990,684,262.4 tons
275 = 450,359,962,737,049.6 tons
285 = 1,801,439,850,948,198.4 tons
295 = 7,205,759,403,792,793.6 tons
305 = 28,823,037,615,171,174.4 tons
315 = 115,292,150,460,684,697.6 tons
325 = 461,168,601,842,738,790.4 tons
335 = 1,844,674,407,370,955,161.6 tons
345 = 7,378,697,629,483,820,646.4 tons
355 = 29,514,790,517,935,282,585.6 tons
365 = 118,059,162,071,741,130,342.4 tons
375 = 472,236,648,286,964,521,369.6 tons
385 = 1,888,946,593,147,858,085,478.4 tons
395 = 7,555,786,372,591,432,341,913.6 tons
405 = 30,223,145,490,365,729,367,654.4 tons
415 = 120,892,581,961,462,917,470,617.6 tons
425 = 483,570,327,845,851,669,882,470.4 tons
435 = 1,934,281,311,383,406,679,529,881.6 tons
445 = 7,737,125,245,533,626,718,119,526.4 tons
455 = 30,948,500,982,134,506,872,478,105.6 tons
465 = 123,794,003,928,538,027,489,912,422.4 tons
475 = 495,176,015,714,152,109,959,649,689.6 tons
485 = 1,980,704,062,856,608,439,838,598,758.4 tons
495 = 7,922,816,251,426,433,759,354,395,033.6 tons
505 = 31,691,265,005,705,735,037,417,580,134.4 tons
515 = 126,765,060,022,822,940,149,670,320,537.6 tons
525 = 507,060,240,091,291,760,598,681,282,150.4 tons
535 = 2,028,240,960,365,167,042,394,725,128,601.6 tons
545 = 8,112,963,841,460,668,169,578,900,514,406.4 tons
555 = 3.2451855365842672678315602057626E31 tons
565 = 1.2980742146337069071326240823050E32 tons
575 = 5.1922968585348276285304963292201E32 tons
585 = 2.0769187434139310514121985316880E33 tons
595 = 8.3076749736557242056487941267522E33 tons
605 = 3.3230699894622896822595176507007E34 tons
615 = 1.3292279957849158729038070602803E35 tons
625 = 5.3169119831396634916152282411211E35 tons
635 = 2.1267647932558653966460912964484E36 tons
645 = 8.5070591730234615865843651857938E36 tons
655 = 3.4028236692093846346337460743175E37 tons
665 = 1.3611294676837538538534984297270E38 tons
675 = 5.4445178707350154154139937189080E38 tons
685 = 2.1778071482940061661655974875632E39 tons
695 = 8.7112285931760246646623899502528E39 tons
715 = 1.3937965749081639463459823920405E41 tons
725 = 5.5751862996326557853839295681618E41 tons
735 = 2.2300745198530623141535718272647E42 tons
745 = 8.9202980794122492566142873090589E42 tons
755 = 3.5681192317648997026457149236236E43 tons
765 = 1.4272476927059598810582859694494E44 tons
775 = 5.7089907708238395242331438777977E44 tons
785 = 2.2835963083295358096932575511191E45 tons
795 = 9.1343852333181432387730302044763E45 tons
805 = 3.6537540933272572955092120817905E46 tons
815 = 1.4615016373309029182036848327162E47 tons
825 = 5.8460065493236116728147393308648E47 tons
835 = 2.3384026197294446691258957323459E48 tons
845 = 9.3536104789177786765035829293838E48 tons
855 = 3.7414441915671114706014331717535E49 tons
865 = 1.4965776766268445882405732687014E50 tons
875 = 5.9863107065073783529622930748056E50 tons
885 = 2.3945242826029513411849172299222E51 tons
895 = 9.5780971304118053647396689196890E51 tons
905 = 3.8312388521647221458958675678756E52 tons



Mount Everest = 2.909836E13 tons ::: STR 256 = maximum carrying capacity of 32,369,622,321,725.44 tons

Earth's Moon = 8.099453E19 tons ::: STR 363 = maximum carrying capacity of 88,544,371,553,805,847,756.8 tons

Earth = 6.584767E21 tons ::: STR 395 = maximum carrying capacity of 7,555,786,372,591,432,341,913.6 tons

Jupiter = 2.092848E23 tons ::: STR 436 = maximum carrying capacity of 2,224,423,508,090,917,681,459,363.84 tons

The Sun = 2.191874E27 tons ::: STR 486 = maximum carrying capacity of 2,277,809,672,285,099,705,814,388,572.16 tons

Betelguese = 3.069650E28 tons ::: STR 505 = maximum carrying capacity of 31,691,265,005,705,735,037,417,580,134.4 tons

Supermassive Black Hole = 8.112647E33 tons ::: STR 595 = maximum carrying capacity of 8.3076749736557242056487941267522E33 tons

Average Globular Cluster = 1.102311E35 tons ::: STR 614 = maximum carrying capacity of 1.1630744963118013887908311777453E35 tons

Milky Way Galaxy = 2.204623E39 tons ::: STR 686 = maximum carrying capacity of 2.5044782205381070910904371106978E39 tons

Virgo Supercluster = 2.204623E43 tons ::: STR 752 = maximum carrying capacity of 2.3192775006471848067197147003554E43 tons

Observable Universe = 3.306934E49 tons ::: STR 855 = maximum carrying capacity of 3.7414441915671114706014331717535E49 tons

ExtravagantEvil
2010-08-31, 09:37 AM
How did you find the weights of cosmic structures, because that is minorly odd at least, the Moon, sure, Earth, of course. Then, we arrive on the collapsed stars and galactic formations, and particularly the observable universe, so how did you find that weight?

Binks
2010-08-31, 09:46 AM
How did you find the weights of cosmic structures, because that is minorly odd at least, the Moon, sure, Earth, of course. Then, we arrive on the collapsed stars and galactic formations, and particularly the observable universe, so how did you find that weight?

Their mass is known (or at least estimated), and weight in Earth level gravity is simple multiplication at that point. If you're talking about the old weight vs. mass debate...well that's a separate issue entirely

Master_Rahl22
2010-08-31, 11:56 AM
Brickfist's Maneuver [General]
Prerequisites: Large size (or powerful build), Snatch Arrows, throw anything.
Benefit: If an opponent charges and misses you, you may take an attack of opportunity to perform this maneuver. Make an opposed strength check, if you succeed, you launch the enemy up to 30 feet in a chosen horizontal direction.

The X Throw Setting Sun maneuvers from ToB do this (resolved as a trip attack with built in +4 to trip that stacks with Improved Trip feat), and the higher level ones let you deal damage to them when they land. There's even one of them (not sure which and AFB) that says if you throw them into another enemy they both take extra damage. The only requirement for spending a feat to get it (Martial Study) would be high enough ECL depending on the one you want, and possibly additional Martial Study feats if the one you want has prereqs.

Roga
2010-08-31, 12:30 PM
That sounds like it would be a better option. We came up with this feat around the time Complete Warrior came out, so well before ToB.

Snake-Aes
2010-08-31, 12:31 PM
The X Throw Setting Sun maneuvers from ToB do this (resolved as a trip attack with built in +4 to trip that stacks with Improved Trip feat), and the higher level ones let you deal damage to them when they land. There's even one of them (not sure which and AFB) that says if you throw them into another enemy they both take extra damage. The only requirement for spending a feat to get it (Martial Study) would be high enough ECL depending on the one you want, and possibly additional Martial Study feats if the one you want has prereqs.

Ballista Throw lets you launch in a line and all in the way get hurt, 6d6 iirc
Comet throw would be the best throw for single target and no aoe damage
Tornado throw doesn't do damage that I can remember, but you move your full speed and get to throw people every 10 feet. And for every 10 feet you move you get a bonus to the trip check. Makes you really love stacking speed to run to the big bad.

Zanatos777
2010-08-31, 12:36 PM
Their mass is known (or at least estimated), and weight in Earth level gravity is simple multiplication at that point. If you're talking about the old weight vs. mass debate...well that's a separate issue entirely

Personally I just like the idea of throwing the observable universe at something. That just strikes me as a really entertaining visual. Like something out of Gurren Lagann.

DaragosKitsune
2010-08-31, 12:38 PM
Personally I just like the idea of throwing the observable universe at something. That just strikes me as a really entertaining visual. Like something out of Gurren Lagann.

Actually, I think that did happen in the final battle.

Snake-Aes
2010-08-31, 12:59 PM
Actually, I think that did happen in the final battle.

Gurren didn't go to such epic str...the robots themselves were bigger than galaxies, so you don't need much str to be able to carry and throw them.

herrhauptmann
2010-08-31, 01:01 PM
Ballista Throw lets you launch in a line and all in the way get hurt, 6d6 iirc
Comet throw would be the best throw for single target and no aoe damage
Tornado throw doesn't do damage that I can remember, but you move your full speed and get to throw people every 10 feet. And for every 10 feet you move you get a bonus to the trip check. Makes you really love stacking speed to run to the big bad.

Isn't there a spell that grants you a large boost to movement for fairly long periods of time, however you can opt to discharge the entire spell at once, letting you move something like 500 feet in a round?

Eldariel
2010-08-31, 01:18 PM
Isn't there a spell that grants you a large boost to movement for fairly long periods of time, however you can opt to discharge the entire spell at once, letting you move something like 500 feet in a round?

Footsteps of the Divine [CC], yes.

kladams707
2010-08-31, 01:21 PM
Dammit, now I'm imagining a cleric the hulking hurler prestige (yes I know It's not the best idea, but I'm not known for those, of course I don't think I'm known at all around here XD). cast wall of stone, break stone wall, throw stone wall.

herrhauptmann
2010-08-31, 02:22 PM
Dammit, now I'm imagining a cleric the hulking hurler prestige (yes I know It's not the best idea, but I'm not known for those, of course I don't think I'm known at all around here XD). cast wall of stone, break stone wall, throw stone wall.

Better research a new spell, wall of Uranium or something. Stone ain't gonna be nearly heavy enough for your hurler

Morph Bark
2010-08-31, 03:23 PM
Those builds, are things the eldritch horrors look at with uneasiness :smalleek:.

Considering Glyphstone seems just fine, I wouldn't say that. :smallamused:

That being said, the cheese these builds have is one reason I decided not to go with this with my Half-Ogre and simply go for Bloodstorm Blade/Frenzied Berzerker.

Wings of Peace
2010-08-31, 04:02 PM
Though it doesn't contribute to damage I feel four levels of Bloodstorm Blade are a good investment for the enterprising Hulking Hurler interested in saving money on multiple massive projectiles.

Edit: Ninja'd

The Glyphstone
2010-08-31, 04:39 PM
Footsteps of the Divine [CC], yes.

And until it was given the [Dismissable] tag, it was the key element in Chuck E. Cheese and his ability to break the speed of light. Alas, poor Chuck...slain by the only thing capable of defeating TO builds: Errata.

Optimator
2010-08-31, 04:52 PM
Here is a handy list for Hulking Hurlers, courtesy of 4chan's /tg/:

Carry capacities for medium creatures

35 = 1.6 tons
45 = 6.4 tons
55 = 25.6 tons
65 = 102.4 tons
75 = 409.6 tons
85 = 1,638.4 tons
95 = 6,553.6 tons
105 = 26,214.4 tons
115 = 104,857.6 tons
125 = 419,430.4 tons
135 = 1,677,721.6 tons
145 = 6,710,886.4 tons
155 = 26,843,545.6 tons
165 = 107,374,182.4 tons
175 = 429,496,729.6 tons
185 = 1,717,986,918.4 tons
195 = 6,871,947,673.6 tons
205 = 27,487,790,694.4 tons
215 = 109,951,162,777.6 tons
225 = 439,804,651,110.4 tons
235 = 1,759,218,604,441.6 tons
245 = 7,036,874,417,766.4 tons
255 = 28,147,497,671,065.6 tons
265 = 112,589,990,684,262.4 tons
275 = 450,359,962,737,049.6 tons
285 = 1,801,439,850,948,198.4 tons
295 = 7,205,759,403,792,793.6 tons
305 = 28,823,037,615,171,174.4 tons
315 = 115,292,150,460,684,697.6 tons
325 = 461,168,601,842,738,790.4 tons
335 = 1,844,674,407,370,955,161.6 tons
345 = 7,378,697,629,483,820,646.4 tons
355 = 29,514,790,517,935,282,585.6 tons
365 = 118,059,162,071,741,130,342.4 tons
375 = 472,236,648,286,964,521,369.6 tons
385 = 1,888,946,593,147,858,085,478.4 tons
395 = 7,555,786,372,591,432,341,913.6 tons
405 = 30,223,145,490,365,729,367,654.4 tons
415 = 120,892,581,961,462,917,470,617.6 tons
425 = 483,570,327,845,851,669,882,470.4 tons
435 = 1,934,281,311,383,406,679,529,881.6 tons
445 = 7,737,125,245,533,626,718,119,526.4 tons
455 = 30,948,500,982,134,506,872,478,105.6 tons
465 = 123,794,003,928,538,027,489,912,422.4 tons
475 = 495,176,015,714,152,109,959,649,689.6 tons
485 = 1,980,704,062,856,608,439,838,598,758.4 tons
495 = 7,922,816,251,426,433,759,354,395,033.6 tons
505 = 31,691,265,005,705,735,037,417,580,134.4 tons
515 = 126,765,060,022,822,940,149,670,320,537.6 tons
525 = 507,060,240,091,291,760,598,681,282,150.4 tons
535 = 2,028,240,960,365,167,042,394,725,128,601.6 tons
545 = 8,112,963,841,460,668,169,578,900,514,406.4 tons
555 = 3.2451855365842672678315602057626E31 tons
565 = 1.2980742146337069071326240823050E32 tons
575 = 5.1922968585348276285304963292201E32 tons
585 = 2.0769187434139310514121985316880E33 tons
595 = 8.3076749736557242056487941267522E33 tons
605 = 3.3230699894622896822595176507007E34 tons
615 = 1.3292279957849158729038070602803E35 tons
625 = 5.3169119831396634916152282411211E35 tons
635 = 2.1267647932558653966460912964484E36 tons
645 = 8.5070591730234615865843651857938E36 tons
655 = 3.4028236692093846346337460743175E37 tons
665 = 1.3611294676837538538534984297270E38 tons
675 = 5.4445178707350154154139937189080E38 tons
685 = 2.1778071482940061661655974875632E39 tons
695 = 8.7112285931760246646623899502528E39 tons
715 = 1.3937965749081639463459823920405E41 tons
725 = 5.5751862996326557853839295681618E41 tons
735 = 2.2300745198530623141535718272647E42 tons
745 = 8.9202980794122492566142873090589E42 tons
755 = 3.5681192317648997026457149236236E43 tons
765 = 1.4272476927059598810582859694494E44 tons
775 = 5.7089907708238395242331438777977E44 tons
785 = 2.2835963083295358096932575511191E45 tons
795 = 9.1343852333181432387730302044763E45 tons
805 = 3.6537540933272572955092120817905E46 tons
815 = 1.4615016373309029182036848327162E47 tons
825 = 5.8460065493236116728147393308648E47 tons
835 = 2.3384026197294446691258957323459E48 tons
845 = 9.3536104789177786765035829293838E48 tons
855 = 3.7414441915671114706014331717535E49 tons
865 = 1.4965776766268445882405732687014E50 tons
875 = 5.9863107065073783529622930748056E50 tons
885 = 2.3945242826029513411849172299222E51 tons
895 = 9.5780971304118053647396689196890E51 tons
905 = 3.8312388521647221458958675678756E52 tons



Mount Everest = 2.909836E13 tons ::: STR 256 = maximum carrying capacity of 32,369,622,321,725.44 tons

Earth's Moon = 8.099453E19 tons ::: STR 363 = maximum carrying capacity of 88,544,371,553,805,847,756.8 tons

Earth = 6.584767E21 tons ::: STR 395 = maximum carrying capacity of 7,555,786,372,591,432,341,913.6 tons

Jupiter = 2.092848E23 tons ::: STR 436 = maximum carrying capacity of 2,224,423,508,090,917,681,459,363.84 tons

The Sun = 2.191874E27 tons ::: STR 486 = maximum carrying capacity of 2,277,809,672,285,099,705,814,388,572.16 tons

Betelguese = 3.069650E28 tons ::: STR 505 = maximum carrying capacity of 31,691,265,005,705,735,037,417,580,134.4 tons

Supermassive Black Hole = 8.112647E33 tons ::: STR 595 = maximum carrying capacity of 8.3076749736557242056487941267522E33 tons

Average Globular Cluster = 1.102311E35 tons ::: STR 614 = maximum carrying capacity of 1.1630744963118013887908311777453E35 tons

Milky Way Galaxy = 2.204623E39 tons ::: STR 686 = maximum carrying capacity of 2.5044782205381070910904371106978E39 tons

Virgo Supercluster = 2.204623E43 tons ::: STR 752 = maximum carrying capacity of 2.3192775006471848067197147003554E43 tons

Observable Universe = 3.306934E49 tons ::: STR 855 = maximum carrying capacity of 3.7414441915671114706014331717535E49 tons

That is so damn cool.

mobdrazhar
2010-08-31, 05:35 PM
would it be worth doing a dip into Psycic Warrior to get the expansion power?

herrhauptmann
2010-08-31, 05:44 PM
Starting as a 'large' creature, I don't see why it would be a bad idea. Psywar into warhulk/hulking hurler, finish with psywar. Pretty sure that 7 levels of psy war is enough to get yourself the ability to use Expansion for 2 size increases. But if your psi feats have requirements like Psicraft or Know:Psi, they'll be wasted.
Warhulk sets your ranks to 0 in any skill that uses int/wis/cha except intimidate, so even if you took the feats before warhulk, you'd lose the benefit of any feat which used those skills.

BobSutan
2010-08-31, 08:12 PM
I feel compelled to point out that belt of the wide earth doubles your carrying capacity. If damage is linked to carrying capacity, then doubling it for 4k gold strikes me as a fine bargain.

The issue of how you craft so many heavy blades, and how you would carry them does arise, though. Such a character would make cloud look positively conservative with regards to weapon size.

LMAO! Should have known you'd be the one to post this too :D



So, as soon as he gets that first hurler level, he has a STR of 23. If he bought a belt of +3 STR, then he's looking at 250 pound payloads, for 5d6 each. 30 damage per attack isn't too bad for a level 6 character.

Correction, 30 damage per RANGED attack isn't too bad for a level 6 character.

Eldariel
2010-08-31, 08:41 PM
It's really hilarious to make a Centaur (quadropeds have increased carrying capacity and it's Large) Barbarian/Hulking Hurler/War Hulk. Without magic, you can easily get 27 Str by ECL 8, which entitles you to 2079lb payloads (assuming you take Overburden Heave as your first trick to throw Mediums) for 41d6 each. This would be LA 2/HD 4/Barbarian 1/Hulking Hurler 1 (use Fighter instead of Barbarian if not using Flaws or such). Monstrous Humanoid HD granting full BAB is quite convenient.

Ilmryn
2010-08-31, 08:45 PM
Whew, I didn't expect two pages of stuff. However, there is a very real limit to the insane damage-no mountain to throw. Once you get into the cheese range, what are you throwing at them for 19,330,723,855,637,920,503,551,754d6+172 points of damage? The Moon? The funny thing about the hulking hurler though is that even if he throws a mountain at someone, it still only hits one square...
Also, are they that insanely powerful individually? Most of these builds take advantage of the war hulk's +2str/level, but how powerful is it without that?

Eldariel
2010-08-31, 08:53 PM
Whew, I didn't expect two pages of stuff. However, there is a very real limit to the insane damage-no mountain to throw. Once you get into the cheese range, what are you throwing at them for 19,330,723,855,637,920,503,551,754d6+172 points of damage? The Moon? The funny thing about the hulking hurler though is that even if he throws a mountain at someone, it still only hits one square...
Also, are they that insanely powerful individually? Most of these builds take advantage of the war hulk's +2str/level, but how powerful is it without that?

Well, that depends on your definition of Powerful. My Centaur specifically avoids using any magic (that can multiply the damage multiple times with items, strength-boosters, size increases and so on) and relying on any situational abilities. Mountain Raging Goliath can accomplish similar numbers; one less LA and no HD makes for lots of tasty class levels but lack of quadroped bonus and only +4 Str hurts a bit so they come out at similar numbers.

The fundamental flaw of the class is that it converts something which should never, ever be damage into damage. Carrying capacity is multiplied by size, multiplied every 10 Strength, multiplied for quadropeds and Strength is already the easiest stat in the game to boost. Things like Enlarge Person, Expansion, Righteous Might, Giant Size and Polymorph become obscene when both, the size increase and the Strength-increase multiply your damage and something as simple as Barbarian's Rage is suddenly much more than +3. And the higher you get, the quicker the growth of your Carrying Capacity is. It's actually exponential; the last number always gets multiplied. So 29 Str is 933lb (x2 for Large), 39 is 933lb*4 (x2 for Large) and 49 Str is 933lb*16 (x2 for Large). Your average Orc Barbarian can reach 40 Strength by level 20 (18+4 Racial+5 Levels+5 Tome+6 Item+2 Enlarge Person). When he's not Raging.


I'm sure you can see the problem; the game doesn't multiply your damage in any other venue. Indeed, Str-bonus to damage and such trivialities are always additive and thus high stat helps relatively little (of course it's still extremely convenient but the relative benefit isn't all that large). Carrying Capacity though, multiplies constantly so you can quickly reach billions of lbs. 'cause that's just few multiplications away.

Flickerdart
2010-08-31, 08:56 PM
There are ways other than Warhulk to get obscene strength scores. Warhulk only counts for 20 STR out of the hundreds of points of STR that the more insane Hulking Hurler builds have.

Eldariel
2010-08-31, 09:04 PM
There are ways other than Warhulk to get obscene strength scores. Warhulk only counts for 20 STR out of the hundreds of points of STR that the more insane Hulking Hurler builds have.

If Magic is involved, I can cite over +50 from spells easily:
+32 Giant Size
+12 Girallon's Blessing + Fuse Arms
+8 Draconic Polymorph (in addition to getting base Str of ~36 from e.g. Filborg form)
+12 Bite of the Werebear
+4 Holy Transformation
+4 Greater Visage of the Deity
+4 Valiant Fury
+5 Wishes

That gets you base 117, for example (36 Str from Filborg + 81 from boosts) Then as much as you want from Persistent Consumptive Field. For example. Or Festering Anger or some such. And Shapechange could get us much more impressive base Str than Draconic Polymorph so there's that too. Using just a tiny fraction of those spells gets you thousands upon thousands of carrying capacity. And Rages and Fire Wines and such also boost it further. Strength is made to grow.

DaragosKitsune
2010-08-31, 09:08 PM
Well, there are other ways to permanently increase strength besides War Hulk. The Half-Golem template is an easy way to boost Strength for +0 LA, assuming you make your Will save/s and don't mind the -6 to Int and Cha or the -2 to Dex (although, the natural armor bonus helps mitigate that). You could also look at Grafts. Any one of the Undead arm grafts from Fiend Folio give a +4 to Strength that isn't magical. If you are Evil, you could always consider a +0 LA Undead template after you get Half-Golem (they stack if you make your will save), especially if you get someone with Corpsecrafter to turn you into a sentient undead for another +4 to Str on top of anything the template might give.

Wings of Peace
2010-08-31, 10:03 PM
Race: Dragonborn Warforged Incarnate Construct

Flaws 2: Noncombatant, Vulnerable

Progression: Generic Warrior 2/Warblade 1/Cancer Mage 1/X 1/Bloodstorm Blade 4/Hulking Hurler 2/X 9

Notes:

-Afflicted with Festering Anger for a perpetual +2 Strength per day.

-Dragonborn gets rid of the Warforged disease immunity.

Zaq
2010-08-31, 10:48 PM
There's a graft in Lords of Madness that increases your carrying capacity by a rather large amount. I'm certain that it's used in that topic with the screen-stretching numbers, but no one's mentioned it here.

awa
2010-08-31, 11:04 PM
la- is not la 0 why can no one remember that

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-08-31, 11:14 PM
Race: Dragonborn Warforged Incarnate Construct

Flaws 2: Noncombatant, Vulnerable

Progression: Generic Warrior 2/Warblade 1/Cancer Mage 1/X 1/Bloodstorm Blade 4/Hulking Hurler 2/X 9

Notes:

-Afflicted with Festering Anger for a perpetual +2 Strength per day.

-Dragonborn gets rid of the Warforged disease immunity.

For those of you who don't catch this reference, allow me to elucidate:

Cancer Mage allows you to take any benefits from any diseases you may have, but you are immune to the negative effects of said disease.

Festering Anger increases your Str by 2 every day.

Basically, you have NI strength, based on your age category.

So if you were to do this for a year, you would have +730 Str from that alone.

Halae
2010-08-31, 11:17 PM
For those of you who don't catch this reference, allow me to elucidate:

Cancer Mage allows you to take any benefits from any diseases you may have, but you are immune to the negative effects of said disease.

Festering Anger increases your Str by 2 every day.

Basically, you have NI strength, based on your age category.

So if you were to do this for a year, you would have +730 Str from that alone.

......

WHAT

Andion Isurand
2010-08-31, 11:19 PM
That's why these build eventually start using obdurium or condensed neutronium shot-puts or something. Tens/hundreds of thousands of pounds of weight condensed into a ball the size of your fist/head.

Iridium would be ideal.

Halae
2010-08-31, 11:25 PM
Iridium would be ideal.

isn't Iridium essentially real adamantine that weighs about four times as much as normal iron?

DaragosKitsune
2010-08-31, 11:26 PM
Cancer Mage allows you to take any benefits from any diseases you may have, but you are immune to the negative effects of said disease.


If you're going down that route, don't forget about Vile Rigidity. 1 year=+365 natural armor bonus.

BunnyMaster42
2010-08-31, 11:28 PM
I'm not entirely sure how it would stack up against Iridium, but neutronium from the immortals handbook site here (http://www.immortalshandbook.com/freestuff15.htm) would probably serve the best if you just wanted something obscenely heavy without the whole issue of size. Of course neutronium, going by that site, is extremely expensive, but I think it's about as heavy a material as you could concevably get, provided you have the necessariy strength and wealth.

Dr.Epic
2010-08-31, 11:28 PM
War Hulk? Which book is that in, and what does it get?

Andion Isurand
2010-08-31, 11:28 PM
isn't Iridium essentially real adamantine that weighs about four times as much as normal iron?

Aye, its the most dense element on the periodic table... with Platinum and Gold in 2nd and 3rd place.

flabort
2010-08-31, 11:44 PM
I seem to recall a three template loop, one of which is tauric, the other two I cannot remember. They used eachother to remove their inherent LA and racial HD, over and over, so that after applying the +6 LA, +8 HD (numbers off the top of my head, not necessarily actual) series of templates, there was a net ECL gain of 0, and a fairly nice +9 or something strength. repeating this loop some jillionty times resulted in near infinite strength, without gaining a single effective character level. BOOM. 6775323456624455 strength, easy.

Optimator
2010-09-01, 01:38 AM
I was under the impression Osmium was the densest.

FelixG
2010-09-01, 01:48 AM
War Hulk? Which book is that in, and what does it get?

Miniatures Handbook

It gets a +2 str every level which is the important bit here, it also gets some other abilities that allow him to attack multiple creatures around him

Frosty
2010-09-01, 02:08 AM
I don't think you can actually carry around weapons without that weight so much. Even if you can throw 100,000 lbs, how are you going to ever going to get to the second floor of a building for example?

"Oh I'm sorry your Majesty. I'll be sure to pay to repair the big hole that WAS your staircase. Yeah, I'm carrying a bit much I know."

Andion Isurand
2010-09-01, 02:21 AM
I was under the impression Osmium was the densest.

Alas, you are correct.

FelixG
2010-09-01, 02:22 AM
then you just get a ring of http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/Fly.htm

Ravens_cry
2010-09-01, 02:33 AM
I don't think you can actually carry around weapons without that weight so much. Even if you can throw 100,000 lbs, how are you going to ever going to get to the second floor of a building for example?

"Oh I'm sorry your Majesty. I'll be sure to pay to repair the big hole that WAS your staircase. Yeah, I'm carrying a bit much I know."
That shouldn't be a problem with the stuff of neutron stars. A teaspoon weighs five times ten to the power of twelve (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/A_teaspoon_of_material_from_a_neutron_star_can_wei gh_about), or 50 trillion kilograms.
The trouble is keeping it together until you throw it.

Caustic Soda
2010-09-01, 02:42 AM
then you just get a ring of http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/Fly.htm

I ratherl ike the idea of someone so strong, with weapons so heavy, he has to use magic to stay aloft or he'll fall through the earth :smallamused::smalltongue:. Oversized weaponry taken to its ultimate conclusion.

FelixG
2010-09-01, 04:17 AM
I ratherl ike the idea of someone so strong, with weapons so heavy, he has to use magic to stay aloft or he'll fall through the earth :smallamused::smalltongue:. Oversized weaponry taken to its ultimate conclusion.

Guard: "To see the king you have to hand over all weapons"
Hulk: "You...really might want to reconsider that in my case."
Guard: "No exceptions!"
Hulk: "Very well"
guard tears his arms off trying to hold the uber shotput +100 xp and you are now enemies of the state for killing one of the kings royal guard.
Hulk: "Hey! i tried to warn em!"

2xMachina
2010-09-01, 04:25 AM
I'm more worried about your weapons having their own gravity field.

Kobold-Bard
2010-09-01, 05:20 AM
Here.
(http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19873078/Hulking_Hurler_build&post_num=881#338559786)
That's about page 89, and nets 19,330,723,855,637,920,503,551,754d6+172 damage. Doesn't go into too much detail really, but still, once you get the tauric template involved ANYTHING goes. And that's still at ECL 20 apparently.

I'd just check the rest of that thread, it's full of cheese, just pick and choose really.

I tried to roll that. Invisiblecastle just said no, but the one on the srd seemed to have a seizure and crashed my iphone's Internet :smalleek:

shadow_archmagi
2010-09-01, 06:12 AM
I'm more worried about your weapons having their own gravity field.

Oh yeah... once you have to have a weapon as heavy as earth, it is therefore as much mass, which means...

Bayar
2010-09-01, 02:03 PM
I don't think you can actually carry around weapons without that weight so much. Even if you can throw 100,000 lbs, how are you going to ever going to get to the second floor of a building for example?

"Oh I'm sorry your Majesty. I'll be sure to pay to repair the big hole that WAS your staircase. Yeah, I'm carrying a bit much I know."

Meh, I'd just walk on my hands and claim I am holding the Earth. Problem solved.

Skorj
2010-09-01, 02:25 PM
That shouldn't be a problem with the stuff of neutron stars. A teaspoon weighs five times ten to the power of twelve (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/A_teaspoon_of_material_from_a_neutron_star_can_wei gh_about), or 50 trillion kilograms.
The trouble is keeping it together until you throw it.

Protect the catgrls, here comes physics!

You can't really have neutronium in chunks spaller than a neutron star. Partly because it has a half-life of 11 minutes, and partly because at any reasonable pressure, it's a superfluid (a neutron star is thought to be almost infinitely rigid, but that's due to the pressure, not the material), and so arguably you cant throw it, and it would do no damage it you hit someone with it.

Also, you can't really throw an object heavier than the planet you're standing on. At that point you're really just throwing the planet instead, so that puts a cap on hulking hurler damage IMO - no more than the mass of the planet you're on. Throwing something the mass of a star or more just adds "returning" to the weapon.

Frosty
2010-09-01, 02:32 PM
If you throw the planet, aren't you just in fact pushing yourself away from the planet?

Ravens_cry
2010-09-01, 02:49 PM
Protect the catgrls, here comes physics!

You can't really have neutronium in chunks spaller than a neutron star. Partly because it has a half-life of 11 minutes, and partly because at any reasonable pressure, it's a superfluid (a neutron star is thought to be almost infinitely rigid, but that's due to the pressure, not the material), and so arguably you cant throw it, and it would do no damage it you hit someone with it.

Also, you can't really throw an object heavier than the planet you're standing on. At that point you're really just throwing the planet instead, so that puts a cap on hulking hurler damage IMO - no more than the mass of the planet you're on. Throwing something the mass of a star or more just adds "returning" to the weapon.
You could always get a mage to research a new spell, like resilient sphere but movable, but just as indestructible by non-magical means, keeping the neutroniam at the pressure it is accustomed to. Such a spell may already exist for all I know, just not in the SRD, so that step may not be necessary. AN improved unguent of timelessness would prevent the decay.
All you need to now is to get to a neutron star and do this, the potential returning property been an advantage, eh what?
Now we need to calculate how much strength it would take to achieve escape velocity. You probably have it already have it though.

Bayar
2010-09-01, 03:35 PM
Or cover the neutronium star in quintensence or something.

Ravens_cry
2010-09-01, 03:42 PM
Or cover the neutronium star in quintensence or something.
That would also work. Heck, past a certain strength value, you could just bring the whole neutron star with you.
Warning: Tidal Forces may preclude this option for those who want to live on the planet after.

Keld Denar
2010-09-01, 03:44 PM
If you throw the planet, aren't you just in fact pushing yourself away from the planet?

Hypothesis: Chuck Norris is a Hulking Hurler
Proof: Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the world down.
Results: True

gomipile
2010-09-01, 03:44 PM
I think it was Robert Forward or one of his friends who suggested coating an asteroid in carbon, then using explosives to compress it to near degenerate matter densities. The carbon becomes a diamond shell which keeps the mass compressed.

Ravens_cry
2010-09-01, 03:48 PM
I think it was Robert Forward or one of his friends who suggested coating an asteroid in carbon, then using explosives to compress it to near degenerate matter densities. The carbon becomes a diamond shell which keeps the mass compressed.Colour me white and call me an eggplant, but I doubt that would work. For one, I doubt the forces possible by chemical explosives would be enough to compress it that much. Two, I doubt the diamond shell could keep it contained.
I may be wrong, but this is my gut reaction to such an idea and is by no means scientific.

Doresain
2010-09-01, 03:59 PM
someone mentioned elder evils earlier and it got me thinking...with one of the cheesed out builds that gives you a ridiculous carrying capacity, would it be possible for someone to catch Atropus as he decends upon the world...and them throw him?

Ilmryn
2010-09-01, 05:51 PM
someone mentioned elder evils earlier and it got me thinking...with one of the cheesed out builds that gives you a ridiculous carrying capacity, would it be possible for someone to catch Atropus as he decends upon the world...and them throw him?

As it seems, 865 str in enough to throw the entire universe. So, yes. A moon coming close enough for you to catch it would likely fry you with friction heat before it even got close to you. Throwing a moon is one thing. Throwing a moon-sized burning glob of lava is something different. Of course, there is always fire immunity...

As a side note, how high a jump can a person with 865 str pull off?

FelixG
2010-09-01, 05:55 PM
someone mentioned elder evils earlier and it got me thinking...with one of the cheesed out builds that gives you a ridiculous carrying capacity, would it be possible for someone to catch Atropus as he decends upon the world...and them throw him?

Maybe, might call for a grapple check then throw enemy, also doesn't atropus move under his own power? so even if you toss him away he could just start coming back.

Cieyrin
2010-09-01, 06:08 PM
As a side note, how high a jump can a person with 865 str pull off?

Assuming unencumbered Human with no ranks and a running start, this theoretical character has a minimum of a 428 foot long jump, reaching a high of 107 feet in the middle of the arc. Also assuming double moving, he wouldn't land till 7 rounds after he started the jump. And this is without increasing movement speed, skill tricks or even skill ranks.

Keld Denar
2010-09-01, 06:08 PM
Atropus juggling? A new form of artistic expression!

You'd have to do it in a way that doesn't involve grappling rules, since you can't grapple with anything more than 2 sizes bigger than you. I do believe Atropus would qualify. If you had that Distance Shot epic feat, you could throw him into a nearby star. Let the alpha centurians deal with him.

Cieyrin
2010-09-01, 06:09 PM
You'd have to do it in a way that doesn't involve grappling rules, since you can't grapple with anything more than 2 sizes bigger than you. I do believe Atropus would qualify. If you had that Distance Shot epic feat, you could throw him into a nearby star. Let the alpha centurians deal with him.

That sounds move like you'd be throwing him to a new Crystal Sphere, if Spelljammer fluff is to be believed. :smallbiggrin:

flabort
2010-09-01, 08:26 PM
uh.... 7 rounds before he lands?
How 'bout we try optimizing for jumps, in order to, say, quadruple that flight time. or more, would be better.

Eldariel
2010-09-01, 09:10 PM
uh.... 7 rounds before he lands?
How 'bout we try optimizing for jumps, in order to, say, quadruple that flight time. or more, would be better.

Jump-check is actually a perfect way to illustrate what's wrong with Hulking Hurler; 860 Str doesn't really mean all that much for Jumping but with Hurler? Thanks to all the multiplications, the numbers fly to stratosphere. Jumps get small, static boosts leading to not-at-all-impressive numbers.

If you wanna optimize Jump, maximize your Speed. Off the top of my head, Persistent Footsteps of the Divine, Cheetah's Sprint & various move speed increasing classes are a good start. Every bonus +10' grants +4 to Jump so that's way more efficient; even just 1030' movement speed grants +400 to Jump-checks. Get something like 10000' and you'll blow 1000 Str out of the water no sweat.

gomipile
2010-09-01, 09:53 PM
The real problem is that carrying capacity is literally exponential in strength. Most of the other neat scaling tricks in this game are based on quadratic or other polynomial scaling, which is good enough. But when what you can do quadruples every 10 stat points, well.... you see what can happen.

gomipile
2010-09-01, 09:58 PM
Ah, combining this thread with the results from the longest possible shot thread, I have found a neat way to deal with the Pathfinder Tarrasque.

All you need is a level 21 Hulking Hurler with the Distant Shot feat, who throws Tarry into the Sun.

The Glyphstone
2010-09-01, 10:43 PM
And when the Tarrasque comes back, it's on fire.:smallbiggrin:

Frosty
2010-09-01, 11:09 PM
Ah, combining this thread with the results from the longest possible shot thread, I have found a neat way to deal with the Pathfinder Tarrasque.

All you need is a level 21 Hulking Hurler with the Distant Shot feat, who throws Tarry into the Sun.
At level 21, a Terrasque is trivial to handle. Your party can handle 4 of them a day with no sweat.

Cieyrin
2010-09-02, 02:28 PM
Ah, combining this thread with the results from the longest possible shot thread, I have found a neat way to deal with the Pathfinder Tarrasque.

All you need is a level 21 Hulking Hurler with the Distant Shot feat, who throws Tarry into the Sun.

Pff, if the Fighter 20 vs. Pathfinder Tarrasque thread taught me anything, it's that the Pathfinder Tarrasque is kinda a wimp.

Tyndmyr
2010-09-02, 02:52 PM
Also, you can't really throw an object heavier than the planet you're standing on. At that point you're really just throwing the planet instead, so that puts a cap on hulking hurler damage IMO - no more than the mass of the planet you're on. Throwing something the mass of a star or more just adds "returning" to the weapon.

I do not consider this a major downside.

Particularly because ENOUGH strength/long shots, which are easy enough, can solve the returning problem. And the ability to travel through space by throwing your planet around is frigging awesome.

Voidhawk
2010-09-02, 04:10 PM
Cancer Mage allows you to take any benefits from any diseases you may have, but you are immune to the negative effects of said disease.

Festering Anger increases your Str by 2 every day.

So if you were to do this for a year, you would have +730 Str from that alone.

I think I just found the BBEG for my next campaign: a Cancer Mage that is going around collecting scaling diseases and slowly getting exponentially more powerful, and exponentially more insane and power hungry.

Hmm... I think I'll invent a disease that makes you increase in size catagories, just for the part when the players are fighting his cancerous companions inside his diseased guts, battling desparately to reach his putrid heart and cast Remove Disease on it and finally bring the monstrosity down.

Ilmryn
2010-09-02, 05:36 PM
Assuming unencumbered Human with no ranks and a running start, this theoretical character has a minimum of a 428 foot long jump, reaching a high of 107 feet in the middle of the arc. Also assuming double moving, he wouldn't land till 7 rounds after he started the jump. And this is without increasing movement speed, skill tricks or even skill ranks.

That is hilarious. You can throw the entire universe, but you cant jump as far as the hulk(the green, gamma radiated version, not a war hulk)...

Tael
2010-09-02, 06:45 PM
Did somebody say... Jump (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870138/The_Jumplomancer_-_are_you_serious)? :smallbiggrin: