PDA

View Full Version : DMing with sensitive topics



BarbarianNina
2010-08-31, 01:57 PM
I'm DMing a D&D 3.5 game where the party is about to enter a very Lawful Evil empire. I have a strong sense of what this empire is supposed to be like; it's a fanatically religious society where devotion is shown by tormenting and dominating those 'beneath' you. It is also very sexist. I want the players to pick up on how nasty this place is, but I ran into a problem before they even reached the empire.

The PCs went up against a party of evil adventurers from the evil empire. I had a good deal of background for these characters, which I basically developed from what I'd heard about evil adventuring parties in other games. One of the evil adventurers was a creepy misogynist, and I'd privately decided on a number of things he'd done in the past that the players would be lucky enough not to hear about (let's just say that abusing the reanimated corpse of a dead paladin was probably not the worst). He was also drop-dead-gorgeous eye-candy and tended to wear Female Armor. Naturally, this was the guy they Charmed and took alive for questioning.

I decided to try to play him as I pictured him, but without being too explicit. One of the female characters (played by my girlfriend, whose limits I generally know) was an escaped slave from the evil empire. This guy, who was not at all bright, did not figure out that she was no longer a slave, and was offended when she talked to him. I had him offer to 'straighten her out,' but left his exact meaning up to players' interpretations. He also hit on the other female party member (also played by a woman, who I'm friends with but don't know as well) in a less creepy way. I'm pretty sure I was more uncomfortable with it than they were, honestly. I think the game content all stayed safely in the PG-PG 13 category.

Last detail: half my players are female, half are male, and it's a pretty roleplay-intensive group that picks up on a lot more than the average party.

Now, pretty soon they'll be in the empire itself. I have a few options while they're there, including having them miraculously avoid running into any scantily clad slave girls, or coming up with some reason that these matters never come up in a way where they'd notice it, but both of those seem like a cop-out. When they first encountered the evil party, some of the players complained that their evil-ness was not sufficiently obvious; I don't want the same problem in the Evil Empire of Dire Evilness (although I do have a number of other ways to make it obvious, and apparently after reading the evil party's records at least one player wants to personally destroy the empire). The thing is, I don't know the comfort levels of most of my players, my own comfort level with this stuff is fairly low, and I don't want the game to get too dark and disturbing.

Hm... I've used a lot of words to say... not much, really. Still, any advice?

Remmirath
2010-08-31, 03:11 PM
Is talking to your players to figure out their comfort level an option? If so, and you're really worried about it, you could always try that.

Personally, as I know very well the comfort levels of my group and my own, I'd go ahead with it and not pull any punches. If I was running such a campaign for a group other than my usual group, though, I'd be more cautious and try to figure things out before hand.

I would think that if they did find out a lot of things about the evil party's past that would be indicative of what they might find in the Evil Empire, and that didn't seem to bother them overly much, they'll probably be fine with it.

It sounds to me as though your comfort level with it is probably lower than that of your players, so my advice would be to go ahead with it as much as you feel comfortable and tone it down if anybody starts getting bothered (out-of-character bothered, that is. I assume in-character bothered is more or less what you want :smallamused:).

Keep in mind, though, that hinting at dark things will often have the effect of your players thinking up things worse than were really there - so if the things you're thinking of aren't too bad, but hints to it would imply something significantly worse, you should probably hint less and actually show it more, unless you're trying to create a paranoid atmosphere.

Oh, also - if you know of any books they might've read, games they might've played or movies they might've watched that contain similar possibly disturbing things, you could try to judge it based on that. If those things disturbed them then, they'll probably disturb them in the game. If they didn't, I'd say chances are they won't be disturbed in the game either (unless something particularly gruesome or horrible happens to their character, which tends to make things more personal and thus somewhat worse).

JoshuaZ
2010-08-31, 03:18 PM
One thing to do is to talk to the players before hand and figure out where their comfort zones are. Say something like "there are aspects of this campaign that could potentially push comfort zone limits. I don't want to spoil things in advance, but I'm willing to adjust if necessary to not cause serious disturbance. So I'd appreciate it if everyone would give me a short list of what they considered to be unacceptable, beyond the pale, or a general trigger issue."

urbanpirate
2010-08-31, 04:54 PM
I'm DMing a D&D 3.5 game where the party is about to enter a very Lawful Evil empire. I have a strong sense of what this empire is supposed to be like; it's a fanatically religious society where devotion is shown by tormenting and dominating those 'beneath' you. It is also very sexist. I want the players to pick up on how nasty this place is, but I ran into a problem before they even reached the empire.

The PCs went up against a party of evil adventurers from the evil empire. I had a good deal of background for these characters, which I basically developed from what I'd heard about evil adventuring parties in other games. One of the evil adventurers was a creepy misogynist, and I'd privately decided on a number of things he'd done in the past that the players would be lucky enough not to hear about (let's just say that abusing the reanimated corpse of a dead paladin was probably not the worst). He was also drop-dead-gorgeous eye-candy and tended to wear Female Armor. Naturally, this was the guy they Charmed and took alive for questioning.

I decided to try to play him as I pictured him, but without being too explicit. One of the female characters (played by my girlfriend, whose limits I generally know) was an escaped slave from the evil empire. This guy, who was not at all bright, did not figure out that she was no longer a slave, and was offended when she talked to him. I had him offer to 'straighten her out,' but left his exact meaning up to players' interpretations. He also hit on the other female party member (also played by a woman, who I'm friends with but don't know as well) in a less creepy way. I'm pretty sure I was more uncomfortable with it than they were, honestly. I think the game content all stayed safely in the PG-PG 13 category.

Last detail: half my players are female, half are male, and it's a pretty roleplay-intensive group that picks up on a lot more than the average party.

Now, pretty soon they'll be in the empire itself. I have a few options while they're there, including having them miraculously avoid running into any scantily clad slave girls, or coming up with some reason that these matters never come up in a way where they'd notice it, but both of those seem like a cop-out. When they first encountered the evil party, some of the players complained that their evil-ness was not sufficiently obvious; I don't want the same problem in the Evil Empire of Dire Evilness (although I do have a number of other ways to make it obvious, and apparently after reading the evil party's records at least one player wants to personally destroy the empire). The thing is, I don't know the comfort levels of most of my players, my own comfort level with this stuff is fairly low, and I don't want the game to get too dark and disturbing.

Hm... I've used a lot of words to say... not much, really. Still, any advice?


Don't stay out of your own comfort level any longer that you absolutely have to. As a DM you being uncomfortable with the setting and events will derail a game pretty fast.

That said your two best options are tread lightly or make it a comic relief session and have somthing different ready for next week.

Severus
2010-08-31, 05:08 PM
Well, since your GF seems to be ok, and she's an escaped slave from there, You could do one scene of your just describing a flashback to the place that she remembers giving the full sense of its evilness in front of other characters which she can then share.

After that, you can just use euphemisms. "A wild party". "There are people chained up here who have been tortured." etc. You don't have to describe the party in detail, or how people are tortured, or things like that anymore. The one flashback sets the stage, and your players will fill in the detail of the rest.

Ormagoden
2010-08-31, 05:11 PM
some suggestions from personal experience

You're a guy

1) Females can be creepos too. NPC some evil females and pick on the guys.
2) Use less description for questionable topics. For instance "Nearby some slaves are chained to a wagon walking along side of it exhausted. Some of them are women and children." or "The scantly clad slaves in the solar are frequently visited by nobles looking for a discreet companion for the evening."


Thoughts?

Jolly
2010-08-31, 05:19 PM
Just curious: are you going off a pre-made campaign/setting, or is it home brew? If it's the former, just change it a bit so you're more comfortable with it. If it's the latter, why did you make a scenario you aren't ok with?

Is it the talking about graphic sexual things in mixed company that bothers you, the general violence and torture, or something else? For me, it's a game and I tend to sacrifice realism/versimilitude for enjoyment. Even if the evil baddies capture a PC, they'll never get raped because that's not a pleasent or fun thing to deal with even in a fantasy land. Child molestation and under age sex slaves may be significant problems in real life, but I don't get into them in my games because I play to have fun, and those sorts of things aren't fun.

Edit: if you're determined to include nasty and unpleasent things but aren't comfortable talking them through, take a lesson from older books and teevee shows. There are a lot of ways to imply bad things are happening/have happened off screen that gets around the "graphic descriptions" issue. Just as it is possible in a movie to have a plot element where two characters make love without splicing in a clip from a porno, there is no reason why you can't make the uber-evilness of the Empire apparent in a non-graphic way.

Umael
2010-08-31, 06:54 PM
A lawful evil society would probably have public executions and leaving the bodies out as a warning against future criminals. As the party gets closer to the empire, possibly in the outlands and edges, they should start seeing more and more of these executions. Mostly just corpses hanging in cages too small for them to be comfortable, their body a meal for crows, or maybe cruifixations. The further into the empire they go, the more executions they see, and the more often they will see fresher corpses. Finally, they find a breather, barely able to croak for help.

Descriptions with this much detail are easy to keep down to PG-13, so it shouldn't affect your group too much.

Skorj
2010-08-31, 07:06 PM
As in a low-budget horror film, if you can't show the monster, show the reaction shot.

You don't have to get into the details of the horrible evil things being done by the evil empire, if you think the party would be uncomfortable with that - focus instead on the attitude of the man on the street towards those things. If someone is publicly executed by torture for littering, don't describe the torture in detail, just mention that it happened, then go into detail on the crowd reaction. "Oh, he didn't scream nearly as long as the last guy, the executioner must be getting soft". "When are people going to learn to be careful with their trash - the rules are clearly stated".

Make it clear that the crowd is into it. Social acceptance of institutionalized evil is far more frightening and horrible than the tortures themselves, and makes it quite clear that it's the society, not just an isolated incident.

(As an aside, I wouldn't worry too much about them running into "scantily clad slave girls" - it's such a fantasy trope, even a cliche, that there's little emotional impact left with that particular evil.)

Ormur
2010-09-01, 02:59 AM
Interesting I'm doing the exact same thing in my campaign so this thread is very useful. I'm actually more concerned with my own comfort level too.

I thought I'd perhaps leave out some of the less savoury details unless the players inquire about them or just hint at them, especially concerning slavery.

I figure I'll describe empty villages, burnt houses, piles of corpses, dead convicts. Depicting the aftermath is easier than role playing the ongoing screams of children and cries of slaves.

What I'm most concerned about is that they might just run into one of the sadistic monsters that really enjoy being in the thick of all that suffering. Not everyone ruling the empire can be a killer or a slave driver from behind a desk which I'd enjoy role playing more.

Greenish
2010-09-01, 08:41 AM
He was also drop-dead-gorgeous eye-candy and tended to wear Female Armor.Wait, is "Female Armor" like Baby Armor with adults?
http://static.funnyjunk.com/pictures/1220942110668.jpg._roflposters.com_.myspace.jpg
Also, when you leave sufficient holes for the players' imagination to fill, they will be creeped out, but can't blame you.

dsmiles
2010-09-01, 06:35 PM
including having them miraculously avoid running into any scantily clad slave girls,

This part makes me sad. :smallfrown: I like my slave girls to be scantily clad. :smalltongue:

On a more serious note, Lawful Evil isn't always obvious. They can easily present themselves as Lawful Neutral to anybody who doesn't know in-depth history of the LE entity/government. With a little more effort, they can actually present themselves as having "good" intentions, albeit with evil means to an end. The line between LG, LN, and LE, to me, is a little more blurry and indistinct than the line between CG, CN, and CE, and a lot more indistinct than the line between NG, N, and NE. Remember, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.