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Volos
2010-08-31, 02:36 PM
I have searched the PHB and DMG, but I am coming up blank on the answer to this question. As far as RAW is concidered, can you buy cross class skill ranks in a skill that is 'trained only'? For example, if a player wanted to play a Barbarian who somehow knows alot about magic, could he spend skill points on Knowledge (Arcana)? Or could a wizard get ranks in Disable Device?

Now aside from the RAW, what would you homerule? Would it honestly make sense for a character to be able to pick up a skill that you need to be trained at in order to do?

Fax Celestis
2010-08-31, 02:39 PM
Yes, you can, and there's no reason you shouldn't be able to. You're already paying double points, so your out-of-the-way training is there.

Zherog
2010-08-31, 02:42 PM
To add onto what Fax said...

"Trained Only" simply means that you can't use the skill unless you have spent at least one skill point on it.

3.0 had exclusive skills (Use Magic Device and Alchemy come to mind), but they removed that concept in the 3.5 system.

DeltaEmil
2010-08-31, 03:11 PM
A perhaps related question.

Is there any feat that allows you to put points into a skill that is a class skill for one of your classes, but not for your others who don't have that specific skill as a class skill without paying double if you're a multi-class?

For example, if you're a rogue 3 /barbarian 4, any points you put into listen (a class skill for both barbarian and rogue) increases your skill rank by one. But if you wanted to increase spot (not a class skill for barbarian), and were leveling up as a barbarian, you'd need to put two skill points into spot to gain a rank. That's a great disadvantage, and I need to know if there's a feat that helps in that case somehow.

Fax Celestis
2010-08-31, 03:21 PM
Yes, Able Learner from Races of Destiny. You have to be a human (or a changeling), though, and it has to be your first level feat..

DeltaEmil
2010-08-31, 04:59 PM
Thank you very much. That's exactly the feat needed.

Calimehter
2010-08-31, 05:21 PM
There is also the Guerrilla Scout feat from Heroes of Battle.

It *only* works for Spot and Listen, but if you know those are the skill(s) you want, you can take this and get the secondary benefit of a +1 bonus to initiative. It also works for non-humans and does not have to be taken at first level.

Volos
2010-09-01, 08:07 PM
Alright then, so by RAW, you can have the cross class skill.

But for the sake of making sense, would you let a player give their character cross class ranks when it doesn't seem to fit the current situation? You say that spending the extra point counts for the training, but what about when an illiterate Barbarian wants to put ranks into Knowledge Arcana when he has never learned anything about the arcane? You would know, being that you have watched him being played for past few levels.

HereticNox
2010-09-01, 08:15 PM
Being illiterate would probably have nothing to do with knowing arcane lore. I imagine it would be passed down as an oral tradition, things like camp fire stories and such.

Temotei
2010-09-01, 08:21 PM
Alright then, so by RAW, you can have the cross class skill.

But for the sake of making sense, would you let a player give their character cross class ranks when it doesn't seem to fit the current situation? You say that spending the extra point counts for the training, but what about when an illiterate Barbarian wants to put ranks into Knowledge Arcana when he has never learned anything about the arcane? You would know, being that you have watched him being played for past few levels.

If it fit in their background, yeah, I'd allow it. If they're in the party with a caster, maybe they've been studying the spellcaster...there's a lot of ways to justify it, all ending with the answer, "Yes, I'd allow it."

Fax Celestis
2010-09-01, 11:50 PM
Why not? The whole meaning of skill points is going out of your way to pick up information relevant to the subject: side knowledge is represented by your raw ability modifier on an untrained check.