Casting in OOTS

[mootoall]

So I've a question: In SoD, Xykon's first manifestation of his sorcerous powers (not sure if it's his first, but it can possibly be inferred) is to cast Animate Dead, a fourth level wizard spell, on his dog. How is that possible, if that is indeed the first manifestation of his sorcery? Did he not start out at first level?

[RebelRogue]

Because casting Mage Armor or Magic Missile as a first spell just wouldn't have worked as well. In addition, it really establishes Xykon as a very powerful sorcerer!

[mootoall]

But did he not manifest his powers at first level?

[JoeSkull]

His campaign started at lvl 4

[mootoall]

Sorry, misphrased it: He'd have to start at level 8 in order to cast a fourth level spell.

[RebelRogue]

Sorry, misphrased it: He'd have to start at level 8 in order to cast a fourth level spell.
Exactly. Be afraid! Be very afraid! :smallwink:

Xykon is just that naturally powerful!

[Zevox]

Rule of Cool. Or more accurately, because it's thematically appropriate for him, his reaction to it helps establish that he has always been evil, and Rich only cares about the rules insofar as he can use them for his purposes.

Zevox

[Nimrod's Son]

Rich only cares about the rules insofar as he can use them for his purposes.
I'm quoting this purely because it can never, ever be said enough round here.

[Cizak]

Because suddenly casting Magic Missil on the dog corpse wouldn't be as cool.

[The MunchKING]

In the story text it mentions bursts of powerful magic causing strange and weird effects for a budding sorcerer until he gets it under control and learns to channel it properly (and thus getting a Sorcerer level).

Thus this was a raw burst of Necromatic energy (What would be Xycon's natural strong point apperently) brought about severe grief and trauma.

[Ancalagon]

Because rules are only a framework for a story. Those who ruin their story for the sake of rules are truely fools*.

* You know, the kind of fools who even follow other fools.

[sasafrazz]

Because rules are only a framework for a story. Those who ruin their story for the sake of rules are truely fools*.

* You know, the kind of fools who even follow other fools.

Hell yes. :thog:

[Crisis21]

Because rules are only a framework for a story. Those who ruin their story for the sake of rules are truely fools*.

* You know, the kind of fools who even follow other fools.
Thank you for the way you have put that.

In RPGs, the rules are the Rules are the RULES unless the DM says otherwise. Same with any work of fiction.

[Cybertoy00]

Rule of Cool. Fullstop.
Plus, there are examples of children reading adult books, even though they don't always understand the words meanings.
You can't not do something if you don't know you can't do it.
(Pardon me while my brain dies...)

[Ancalagon]

Also: No one has said EVERY character has to start as level 1. You MIGHT be level 8 at the very beginning but that does not mean you can already do all things you can, according to the rules.

You have to figure it out all first and it seems that happens with Xykon.

Note that the constant level progressing is something that was created for "games" but it works not in other narratives.

Heros in books and movies don't play an actual campaign over weeks and months and go, each saturday evening, from level 1 to 2 to 3 to 4... a hero in the book is the poor guy in the tavern who flees from the first orcs and is level 1, then theres a fight with bandits, he meets his mentor, has a talk, on his next fight he's level 5, then gets beaten up by the big bad, escapes. In the next movie, he trained some, is level 10, and makes his way into the big fortress and confronts the evil emperor and finally is level 16 for the big, mean endfight.
Or take Luke Skywalker as example. In regard to "honest earned XP" he simply can't go from the "farmer" to "level 16 Jedi or whatever" in the end with the few encounters he had.

"Plots" work simply different than "Role playing games" in regard where power etc come from. So it's totally moot to try to apply rpg-rules 1:1 to narratives.
The strict application of rules even fails in RPGs as DMs do whatever they have to to make the plot working and cool.

Mix this with what was said above...

[Kurald Galain]

How is that possible, if that is indeed the first manifestation of his sorcery? Did he not start out at first level?

Because Animate Dead Animal is indeed a first-level spell.

[JonestheSpy]

In the story text it mentions bursts of powerful magic causing strange and weird effects for a budding sorcerer until he gets it under control and learns to channel it properly (and thus getting a Sorcerer level).

Thus this was a raw burst of Necromatic energy (What would be Xycon's natural strong point apperently) brought about severe grief and trauma.

This. I suspect it was a long time before he could duplicate the feat.

[mootoall]

Because Animate Dead Animal is indeed a first-level spell. I did not know of this spell. So there ya go. Considering the fact that in OOTS there *is* a noted progression of levels, with mechanics such as spellcasting noticibly effected by it, and in fact important to the plot (Darth V anyone?) I'd say that level is in fact necessary to explain it.

[PirateMonk]

In the story text it mentions bursts of powerful magic causing strange and weird effects for a budding sorcerer until he gets it under control and learns to channel it properly (and thus getting a Sorcerer level).

Thus this was a raw burst of Necromatic energy (What would be Xycon's natural strong point apperently) brought about severe grief and trauma.

This seems most likely from a Watsonian (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WatsonianVersusDoylist) perspective. You only need to be level 8 to animate a corpse intentionally.

[Stmr5000]

Or take Luke Skywalker as example. In regard to "honest earned XP" he simply can't go from the "farmer" to "level 16 Jedi or whatever" in the end with the few encounters he had.


I dunno man. He would of gotta hella experience from blowing up the deathstar, not to mention RP experience, campaign completion experience, experience from Hoth. He could do it.

[ThePhantasm]

I misread the title and thought this would be another thread about hypothetical OOTS movies.

[Crisis21]

For anyone who is curious, here is a link to a description of the first-level spell Animate Dead Animal (http://www.enworld.org/Inzeladun/inzeladun/magic/spellsanimatedeadanimals.htm)

[Marnath]

I misread the title and thought this would be another thread about hypothetical OOTS movies.

Me too. I like both the huge uncontrolled burst of magic upon budding of sorceror powers theory, it's cool. I am also intrigued about this raise dead animal spell i've never heard of before.

[mootoall]

Yeah, I figured the uncontrolled burst of energy idea would be cool too, as it might explain MitD's "escape".

[Ancalagon]

I dunno man. He would of gotta hella experience from blowing up the deathstar, not to mention RP experience, campaign completion experience, experience from Hoth. He could do it.

The rules say you cannot get more than one level at once. So he can get max two levels out of it. Also, the "killing a Death Star" is just one of those encounters that are story-based and not monster based. So he'd get "Level appropiate XP finishing a big campaign".

Apart from that he'd have to be level 16 Jedi after Episode IV, something that apparently did not happen (look how crappily he fights Darth Vader in Episode V).

And totally apart from that: I am not entirely sure you got what I wanted to say with this example (especially with the stuff said before the example). Your point might be a valid one to discuss about XP and how the Star Wars campaign works but it's surely "not the point" in this discussion.

[Kish]

The rules say you cannot get more than one level at once. So he can get max two levels out of it. Also, the "killing a Death Star" is just one of those encounters that are story-based and not monster based.

Other than that, if it was treated as a challenge, D&D grants XP for overcoming challenges, not for "killing." Luke overcame one challenge: The Death Star.