Is this a reasonable house rule?

[Vorpalbob]

During my upcoming D20 Modern campaign set in the 1930s, I want to prepare for a possibility that I don't believe the grapple rules cover.

Say a character (or NPC) had sneaked up on an enemy, and was adjacent to him. To begin 'negotiations' he wanted to grab the enemy, and hold a gun to his head. Here is what I propose;

Meat Shield
If a character achieves a hold on a flat-footed enemy and is holding a one-handed weapon, they may press that weapon against the enemy. Doing so takes a full-round action. At any point after this, the character may attack with the weapon as a free action. The attack is treated as a coup de gras. The enemy may also attempt an opposed grapple check to free them self. The enemy is always given the chance to free themselves before the character may fire.

This is pretty raw, in need of fine-tuning. Also, if I missed a rule that covers this, consider my face palmed.

[aeauseth]

I'm not familier with the D20 Modern rules, but I would use basic grapple rules (just like you suggest). I would also tend to think a pin would be required to allow a coup de gras.

[Snake-Aes]

I'm not familier with the D20 Modern rules, but I would use basic grapple rules (just like you suggest). I would also tend to think a pin would be required to allow a coup de gras.

Coup de grace.

I have no experience with modern, but how does it approach to grappling? standard d20 doesn't make pinned enemies helpless and thus can't be executed in that manner.

[MightyTim]

I think it would fit pretty well in a stealth themed game (think Splinter Cell or Metal Gear Solid).

A rule like this really encourages that type of combat approach by the PCs, since by definition, it's giving a pretty big incentive to do things that way. Also keep in mind that once the PCs realize this and start optimizing in favor of lurking in the shadows and pouncing out on unexpected enemies, they're going to have a harder time in combat situations where it simply isn't an option, such as a final showdown with the BBEG.

[Hawriel]

I agree that the normal grapple rules would apply. If you have some one pinned in that way would making an attack should be very easy. Is the target helpless? Could be, but not close enough for raw. I say have the attack be an auto crit. Modern uses wound points so this should work well in that regard.

Edit PS.

Oh keep in mind that a pinned person is flat footed so sneak attack would apply. If raw does not allow this, and I dont think it does, in this particular instance as a GM I would allow it. Gun to head, knife at throat, or pointed at a vital organ from behind. However the supprise grapple has to work perfectly.

[Toliudar]

This is a perfect example of why d20 doesn't map called shots very well.

Assuming D20 modern isn't significantly different in grappling rules than D&D, as I understand the action, the action you're describing is initiating a grapple on the first round. On the second action, they're readying an action to shoot the person they're grappling.

I really don't think that being able to coup de grace a grappled foe is a good idea. Especially if the grappled foe is a PC.

Extend the logic. If putting your gun to someone's head and pulling the trigger is a coup de grace, couldn't the guy with the gun have just done that in the first round. (a la the Trinity "Dodge this" moment from the Matrix.) The opponent is denied dex to AC, just as if they were pinned.

Unless you're ready to start homebrewing a whole bunch of rules for specific body parts, I wouldn't do it.

[Volos]

I run with a similar house rule, and my players have used it to good effect. Now that they love the rule, I've begun using it against them. The paladin, for some reason, tends to be caught by surprise when an assassin comes up from behind. My houserule is that you either automatically coup de gras (with sneak attack included) the enemy, or your death attack DC gets a bonus equal to your class level or Int mod, whichever is lower. I've loved using it.

[Vorpalbob]

I do want to make sure that everything is ready in the first round. Think about all the action movies you have seen. Guy moves out of the shadows with a gun, presses it to the person's head, instant control of the situation. All over within moments. Even if they do have to struggle and grab the person, they only need a few seconds.

My favorite use of this tactic is in Splinter Cell. Sam grabs people from behind, and puts his gun to their head. If this is done in view of other enemies, the captive will begin shouting, "Don't Shoot!". If you choose to end them, Sam doesn't shoot. Oh, no. He releases them, takes a step back, and whacks them over the head. Instant unconsciousness. I giggle every time.



Coup de grace.

Yeah, looking back that is a bit extreme.



I say have the attack be an auto crit.

I like this. Virtually guarantees mook deaths, but gives PCs a chance to survive.



A rule like this really encourages that type of combat approach by the PCs, since by definition, it's giving a pretty big incentive to do things that way. Also keep in mind that once the PCs realize this and start optimizing in favor of lurking in the shadows and pouncing out on unexpected enemies, they're going to have a harder time in combat situations where it simply isn't an option, such as a final showdown with the BBEG.

This isn't such a problem for my game, as the characters are mafioso's, and so a bit of sneaking is expected. Also, one of my players always plays the same type of character; big, tough, and LOADED with guns (in one game, his loadout totaled 11 weapons, and he actually drew me a picture to show where he carried them all to allow easy access and not restrict his movement).

More than once in our games has he pulled a Leeroy Jenkins (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkCNJRfSZBU), most famously he ran into a building filled with 12 high-level mooks. He won. Alone. Helped by many lucky rolls and cunning manoeuvrings, but he still won.

Combat will not be too tough for how my players build characters, so I'm upping the roleplaying.

[Heliomance]

This isn't such a problem for my game, as the characters are mafioso's, and so a bit of sneaking is expected. Also, one of my players always plays the same type of character; big, tough, and LOADED with guns (in one game, his loadout totaled 11 weapons, and he actually drew me a picture to show where he carried them all to allow easy access and not restrict his movement).


You do not live in Southampton. This is bad. The fact that there can be two such people terrifies me.

[Vorpalbob]

You do not live in Southampton. This is bad. The fact that there can be two such people terrifies me.

Is it any surprise he's joining the military as soon as he reaches enlistment age? His knowledge of modern warfare rivals my knowledge of WWII (which frightens people). Feel free to test me if you must.

[EDIT]: I may actually have that drawing still.

[Greenish]

His knowledge of modern warfare rivals my knowledge of WWII (which frightens people). Feel free to test me if you must.Which front had field synagogues? :smallcool:

[Vorpalbob]

Which front had field synagogues? :smallcool:

Oh, come on. The Finnish front. You have to do better than that.

I wonder if Simo Hayha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_H%C3%A4yh%C3%A4) attended those services...

[Eldariel]

Oh, come on. The Finnish front. You have to do better than that.

I wonder if Simo Hayha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_H%C3%A4yh%C3%A4) attended those services...

He was Lutheran; I'd wager he attended the Lutheran masses on the front. It was quite an important part of the morale of the Finnish troops back then. In fact, we still have Ministers serving in the military here.

[Greenish]

Oh, come on. The Finnish front. You have to do better than that.Well, if I know of it (or it's in wikipedia), I guess it's too easy…

Hey! Where were Churchhill's cigars made in?

[Vorpalbob]

Well, if I know of it (or it's in wikipedia), I guess it's too easy…

Hey! Where were Churchhill's cigars made in?

Honestly? My guess is Puerto Rico. Just blindly guessing. My knowledge (and that of my friend) is more based in weapons and vehicles and such. My random trivia is from wandering Wikipedia, mainly.

Say, did you know that the Polish resistance built a functional armoured car in the ghetto of Warsaw, while under strict Nazi rule? The Polish also had one of the best pistols ever made, the Vis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vis_pistol). Why the French resistance got so much attention, I do not know. The Polish were far more badass.

[EDIT]: Huh. Turns out they were Cuban. I figured it would be a bit more obscure than that. Everyone got their cigars from Cuba.