Stat the characters of Darken! [3.5]

[SilverLeaf167]

I don't really know where this topic belongs...
I've been reading the webcomic Darken (http://darkencomic.com/?p=270). It isn't exactly about DnD, but it's a fantasy comic in which most races, monsters, classes and gods are clear references to the game.
So, this topic is about statting the main characters of the series. You can do this anyway you like, varying from simple race/class to even feats etc.

I'll go with the basics:
Gort Human Fighter, CE, some kind of eldritch blast (too strong to be a warlock dip, but Gort has no other invocations)
Mink Half-Dragon Cleric of Hextor, LE
Casper Human Rogue, CN/NE
Komi Drow Fighter/Rogue (kinda unclear), NE

[Glass Mouse]

I think Komi is pure fighter. Maybe ranger, but that may just be because he's drow :smalltongue:

And how can you not suggest CE for Casper? That seems so self-evident to me.

I agree with the rest. Not a lot of doubt there. Jill, however, puzzles me. There may be a fancy prestige class that I haven't heard of, but rogue seems pretty likely. High charisma, high intelligence, no magic, decent fighting abilities, pimped up social skills, and the whole sneaky, backstabbing attitude.
There could be some kind of devil template, if she really is the daughter of Baal - which, of course, isn't for certain at all.

So...
Jill Human rogue, LE, maybe some kind of devil template.

[SilverLeaf167]

Well, I guess I didn't suggest CE for Casper BECAUSE, (at least at the part where I am), I don't remember him doing anything actually evil... except if you count hanging around with evil people. I don't really think that's enough to affect your alignment...

BTW, I'm at the part where SPOILER!
the second disciple of Mephistopheles (or whatever-his-name-was) was just introduced and obtained the Crown of Regalia.
Feel free to correct me.

[Glass Mouse]

Well. He definitely doesn't "respect sentient beings and life" (all right, I don't remember the exact wording :smalltongue:)

I've got a specific example in mind: Here (http://darkencomic.com/?p=1059), he takes pleasure in the prospect of slaughtering good soldiers. "That's what makes it fun." Also, second panel here (http://darkencomic.com/?p=1075).

Dunno. Such sadistic tendencies generally classify people as "evil" in my book. His charm just makes it forgivable :smalltongue:

What really puzzles me, though, is that you slap NE on Komi, but feel that Casper is Neutral. Komi is way nicer than Casper.

[Komiyan]

I, ah, might be able to help you out here ;) Hello, I am the person that does this comic!

It was based on an actual game we played, and with the exception of Casper (true to form, he stole away with his!), I actually scanned a few of the sheets some time ago. It's been something like 6 years since we played the campaign.. Shall I post them and give the game away? I must say I rather like the guessing! As a hint, there were 2 wacky prestige classes at work, and the bear had at least 3 classes at one point.

The alignments were pretty fluid, the ones we wrote down didn't really apply when all was said and done, and the game is way different to the comic, too. On paper, Gort is netural evil! Pfffh!

4e might be easier, to be honest, maybe Komi would be less made of paper, Gort would actually be able to mark things instead of shouting at them and hoping they go for him, and Michaelus wouldn't be so utterly brokenly tough..!

[SilverLeaf167]

Yay! The REAL Komiyan!
Yes, it's true that Komi is clearly nicer than Casper. I guess I didn't really think of it that way at the moment... like Glass Mouse said, Casper's overall attitude an personality kind of outshadow his actions.

I don't think I even want to try guessing Prestige Classes... there's just TOO MANY OF THEM.

[Glass Mouse]

Komiyan! *keeps fangirling in check*

I think it would be extremely cool to see their character arcs (even if it's not really... them). But if you'd rather keep us guessing, I guess I can't really do much :smalltongue:

Regarding alignments, I think fluid is definitely best. You're never able to put surefire alignments on people in real life, so it seems like there's a rule here: the more complicated and "real" a person/character is, the more fluid their alignment is likely to be.

But alright, back to guessing. For prestige classes, I think:
Gort Blackguard; though that doesn't explain how he can cast spells - his wisdom just can't be in the positives :smallwink:
...
All right, I'm out of ideas. Damn me and my only-core interest in D&D!

[SilverLeaf167]

As I said earlier, I don't think Gort's really a spellcaster of any kind. I've only seen him make a basic ray attack and a tiny flame.

[Lord Raziere]

I, ah, might be able to help you out here ;) Hello, I am the person that does this comic!

It was based on an actual game we played, and with the exception of Casper (true to form, he stole away with his!), I actually scanned a few of the sheets some time ago. It's been something like 6 years since we played the campaign.. Shall I post them and give the game away? I must say I rather like the guessing! As a hint, there were 2 wacky prestige classes at work, and the bear had at least 3 classes at one point.

The alignments were pretty fluid, the ones we wrote down didn't really apply when all was said and done, and the game is way different to the comic, too. On paper, Gort is netural evil! Pfffh!

4e might be easier, to be honest, maybe Komi would be less made of paper, Gort would actually be able to mark things instead of shouting at them and hoping they go for him, and Michaelus wouldn't be so utterly brokenly tough..!

oh hey, I read this comic. Funny story: I once came up with a character I had named "Komi" but I had forgotten about Komiyan when I came up with it. Then when I reread it I saw it and had to change the name to "Shanami". Memory is strange sometimes eh?

[Glass Mouse]

oh hey, I read this comic. Funny story: I once came up with a character I had named "Komi" but I had forgotten about Komiyan when I came up with it. Then when I reread it I saw it and had to change the name to "Shanami". Memory is strange sometimes eh?

Ohh, I hate it when that happens. The worst part comes when the name is so implemented in your mind that you can't rename your character. That way, I once wrote an entire novel with a main character named after a Disney animal.

@SilverLeaf, how would he cast rays and flames if he wasn't spell caster? :smallconfused:

[Komiyan]

Hello nice peoples!

I'll just post the first sheets since frankly the feats don't matter a lot ;) We weren't all different levels at the same time, I just used the first sheets I found, and Jill had to quit the campaign quite early.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y83/komiyan/sheets/gortsheet1.jpg
He's got levels in Disciple of Mephistopheles! That's where the zappyness comes from. Yes that says 'Profession: Surgeon'.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y83/komiyan/sheets/mink1.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y83/komiyan/sheets/komisheet1.jpg
Dervish was a wonderfully broken class.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y83/komiyan/sheets/jillsheet1.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y83/komiyan/sheets/michaelusnormal.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y83/komiyan/sheets/michaelusbearform.jpg
38 strength, that boy was a monster

The rest of them are here :) (http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y83/komiyan/sheets/) No Casper, sorry, but he was a rogue/fighter mix. I have no idea why I scanned Komi's so small, except to minimise the awful preliminary doodles of him I guess! I kinda like showing these just because everyone's handwriting kinda fits their characters. Also the random 'fat monkey child' on Jill's sheet.

[Glass Mouse]

Random thoughts:

"Profession: Surgery"? Ah-hahahahaha!!!

...Wait, Mink was a guy?!

Woah, nice Komi portrait! I wish I had stuff that nice on my sheets.
Ha, ranger! My gut feeling rocks!

Huh, Jill is a lot more... plain rogue-ish than I expected. Did you tweak her in the comic, or does the sheet decieve?

Why were there two bears? (and where did Adrian go when his character died? New, non-comic character?)

....Wait, Michaelus was evil?

You're right about the handwriting. Gort/John's in particular - that's awesome! But, well, I guess it's natural if everyone was just "playing themselves with the proverbial gloves off."


All right, enough random thoughts! Thanks a lot for posting these - they are a lot of fun to go through :smallbiggrin:

...Wait, does this mean that the thread is over? Aw.

[Komiyan]

Yeah, everyone but Gort, the bear and Zathras was playing the wrong gender :P

Jill is straight-up rogue, because of the sheer amount of skills rogues needed in 3.5, her and Casper were basically half a rogue each- One could find the traps, the other could disarm them. Most of her 'flavour' comes from the fan, since it was an exotic weapon it had a bunch of weird stuff it would do for being a hidden weapon. On the back of her other sheet you can just see the start of her debtor's list- She'd lend money, with interest :P

The two Michaeluses (Michaelii?) are the human form and bear form, look at those insane stats! Technically he was evil, yeah, but I wrote him as neutral good being pressured into what he was doing because of the werebear thing :) And three classes, haha. I just noticed he listed his age as 2, I guess he forgot to do the rest!

Gort killed about two or three of his player's characters since he kept making things that didn't get on with the main party. He made a mage after the bear was killed, but I haven't included her in the comic since she wouldn't really fit. He also made a wyvern rider, a shapeshifting thing that turned into a hag, a cleric..

Hey, I'd rather the thread wasn't over too ;) I guess you guys could use it for general discussion of the comic, that would be awesome! People speculating about the plot makes me go hooray!

[Deliverance]

Thanks for the stats, Komiyan. That was greatly appreciated.

They surely were a quite powerful bunch by their mid-teens, so long as they were faced with challenges that could be surmounted by brute force.

[Glass Mouse]

The two Michaeluses (Michaelii?) are the human form and bear form, look at those insane stats! Technically he was evil, yeah, but I wrote him as neutral good being pressured into what he was doing because of the werebear thing :) And three classes, haha. I just noticed he listed his age as 2, I guess he forgot to do the rest!

Ah, of course. I actually really liked the storyline about Michaelus' downfall. It seemed so... fitting that he tried to scheme and manipulate within the party, but was completely crushed by the true master, Jill.


Gort killed about two or three of his player's characters since he kept making things that didn't get on with the main party. He made a mage after the bear was killed, but I haven't included her in the comic since she wouldn't really fit. He also made a wyvern rider, a shapeshifting thing that turned into a hag, a cleric..

Haha! Suddenly I understand why you keep saying "poor bear"! Poor, doomed guy...


Hey, I'd rather the thread wasn't over too ;) I guess you guys could use it for general discussion of the comic, that would be awesome! People speculating about the plot makes me go hooray!

What a great idea! I think that Ellie will manage to save Lyam, Silvador will defeat Baal by simply ripping through his slime - c'mon, those claws gotta be good for something - and then Gort will enter at the right moment and banish Baal, thus saving Tyr! Yeah.

Oh, you want realistic predictions? Fine. Silvador will either be killed or simply incapacitated - it certainly doesn't look good for her right now.
Baal might interrupt the healing of Lyam and force Mink to choose between fleeing and healing. I could see Vargo make a heroic sacrifice for his siblings; all that wonderful arrogance dissolved the moment Lyam was in danger. Maybe Mink would have to choose between Vargo and Lyam.
But of course, this is only if Baal decides to go for the kids. Maybe he'll be content with one trophy dragon head.
About Jill... I honestly have no idea. It feels like she should have at least one proper betrayal in - she's schemed at the party's behalf so many times now that, I dunno, it's pretty illogical, but I'm just waiting for her to slide in the knife. But, yeah... it's Jill.

Oh, btw Komi, could you spoiler the images? They stretch the screen and make my router cry - and I such hate seeing technology cry :smallwink:

[Komiyan]

Spoilered it all up! I haven't really lurked this forum much so I wasn't aware I could, sorry!

Jill will return soon! I couldn't possibly keep her away. There's only one more page of this chapter left, then it's all final chapter from there, which is really very scary, I have no idea what I'll do afterwards..

[Fallbot]

This is handy, I was wondering whether to post on formspring asking this very question. Can I ask something else instead? How closely does the plot of the comic follow the original campaign? A couple of things, like the beholder fetch quest (complete with random giant encounter?), feel like they've come straight from a game, but I don't get that impression with too much of it, and from the sound of it quite a lot was changed characterization-wise.

[Komiyan]

Hi!

The early stuff really did stick quite closely to the game, but as I started getting a better sense of the characters things spilt off quite drastically. The only similarity between what's happening in the comic right now and what happened in the game is that Baal is around. In the game Tyr wasn't involved, no showdown with Silvador (I think Gort actually killed her, and since it was just a game the guy playing Mink just went 'eh'), I can't even remember if Mink's brothers had names, Shard was called Loki (it seemed just too obvious) and instead of possessing some other dude he'd possessed Komi and got his hand cut off by Gort as a result. Also Jill had left the game before Leon showed up, Mink and Gort were more actively trying to kill each other, and Mink had had a random baby (??).

From about chapter 13 especially (the one with Casper's cursed amulet and the drow trying to kill Komi) it was just me running with the characters and it had no actual basis in the game at all.

Basically, D&D is a fine base for a story, but in a comic the way you tell a tale has to be different. People enjoy reading stories about people, telling them too, and when you're playing D&D, unless you're an awesome roleplayer, the interaction comes from you and your buddies, not so much your characters. I think things have gotten better the further I've strayed from the plot of the game, since while it was a really fun game to play, to have it told straight up as a comic wouldn't work as well.

Ramble ramble.

[Ignition]

Just coming in here to say I love this comic :smallbiggrin: I only found it a few days ago, and binged through it at eye-splitting speed, haha. Great art (which actually gets better over time!) and I love the characters, especially Gort - as his megalomania neatly matches my own :smallwink: - and Jill - because I love a woman who can triple-cross people without breaking a sweat :smallbiggrin: .

I did have a few questions (which are probably answered elsewhere, but I can't find them):

1. How much planning do you do for the storyline? I know you said this was inspired by a campaign, but how far are you going with it? Or have you decided yet? :smallwink:

2. I get that this is more or less D&D Amalgam World, but how much of the world 'exists' outside of the plotline? As in, what else besides where we've seen in the comic is actually defined somewhere else?

3. Is the unresolved sexual tension between Mink and Gort intentional, or am I imagining things? It looks like Gort has feelings for Mink - though I'm pretty sure Mink doesn't exactly feel the same way - but it's entirely probable it's platonic partnership.

I'll ask more as I think of them. Thanks, and great job with the comic thusfar! :smallbiggrin:

[Komiyan]

Just coming in here to say I love this comic :smallbiggrin: I only found it a few days ago, and binged through it at eye-splitting speed, haha. Great art (which actually gets better over time!) and I love the characters, especially Gort - as his megalomania neatly matches my own :smallwink: - and Jill - because I love a woman who can triple-cross people without breaking a sweat :smallbiggrin: .
Haha, glad you like it! Triple crossing, pffh, that's child's play to Jill!


I did have a few questions (which are probably answered elsewhere, but I can't find them):

1. How much planning do you do for the storyline? I know you said this was inspired by a campaign, but how far are you going with it? Or have you decided yet? :smallwink:
I had the whole basic thing planned from the start- It's all been leading up to Gort getting the Regalia and Baal's little plot. We're actually coming up to the end now- we're about to start the very last chapter! I think I'll be tying up all loose ends neatly, due to the forward planning. It's my firm belief that all stories should have a beginning, middle and end, and webcomics don't get a pass on this!


2. I get that this is more or less D&D Amalgam World, but how much of the world 'exists' outside of the plotline? As in, what else besides where we've seen in the comic is actually defined somewhere else?
Honestly? I'm dreadful at worldbuilding, or at least I have been with this comic.. Darken is a peninsula, there is life off of it but it's not really been explored, boats tend to go and not come back, which is considered offputting. That's as far as I got :smalleek:


3. Is the unresolved sexual tension between Mink and Gort intentional, or am I imagining things? It looks like Gort has feelings for Mink - though I'm pretty sure Mink doesn't exactly feel the same way - but it's entirely probable it's platonic partnership.Oh, it's intentional, and much complained about by the guys who played them originally :smallbiggrin: I don't really want to expand on what each of them feels for the other as it could almost be considered spoilers- Just rest assured you'll have a firmer answer by the end of the comic!

[Ignition]

It does my cold, black heart good to know you've got an actual planned end for the story, and in fact, planning at all :smallbiggrin: Especially that my questions about Gort and Mink will get answered eventually, haha. Can't wait to read it!

Fair enough on the worldbuilding though; it's kind of my hobby, and I certainly understand how irritating it can be when you've put a ton of effort into a world, and then find one twist or glitch or snag that invalidates all that work. Feels bad man. I like what you've shown of the world in the story, and was just wondering what else existed. *thumbs up*

*roots for Gort* Go Team Tyrant! :smallbiggrin:

[Komiyan]

Yep, the end is incoming like about 40 pages, which is probably just under a year's time at my glacial pace :P It's going to be half relief, half sadness when it's over, it's basically been a huge chunk of my life for the last 7 years.

I hope to do more worldbuilding with my next comic- It's an art if you can do it right, it really is. Kudos to you if you can manage it!

[Fallbot]

Thanks for the answer!


and Mink had had a random baby (??).


:smalleek: Well...Did Silvador at least get to see her grandchild before she was offed?

[Glass Mouse]

I'm really gonna miss Darken when it ends. It definitely has some of the best-written character interaction I've ever seen.
Sigh.

What's your new project gonna be? Any hints, or is it top super hush hush secret?

[Ignition]

I'm really gonna miss Darken when it ends. It definitely has some of the best-written character interaction I've ever seen.
Sigh.

What's your new project gonna be? Any hints, or is it top super hush hush secret?

My name is Ignition, and I endorse this post and everything it contains :smallwink:

[Komiyan]

:smalleek: Well...Did Silvador at least get to see her grandchild before she was offed?
Can't recall, sorry. Silvador was barely a character in the game :smallfrown:


I'm really gonna miss Darken when it ends. It definitely has some of the best-written character interaction I've ever seen.
Sigh.

What's your new project gonna be? Any hints, or is it top super hush hush secret?
Oh, I'm going to miss it too! I'll probably do a few little short stories after the end since there's a couple of things I simply can't let go without drawing, you'll know these things when you see them :P (no I don't tease people with secret spoilers who could suggest this :smallbiggrin:)

I'm really glad you like the character interaction, it's my favourite thing to write, and it's cool to know I'm doing ok with it!

As for my next thing, I honestly don't know yet, all my energies have been going to giving Darken a good ending, I've barely had time to think about it. All I know is that I want to set out a world and do shortish stories within it that may not be entirely connected apart from the setting, a bit like Discworld, I just.. haven't thought of the setting yet D:

[Aidan305]

I'm really gonna miss Darken when it ends. It definitely has some of the best-written character interaction I've ever seen.
Sigh.
Gotta agree here. Darken is one of my primary influences when I think about how I'd like a game to go.

I just wish I could get my players/fellow players to play that way.

I'm certainly loving what's happening at the moment, though I'm sorry that Silvador's probably going to die. I like her as a character. I hope that Lyam survives. I like him.

[Glass Mouse]

New page. (http://darkencomic.com/?p=2545)

Yay, I was (kinda) right about Mink's choice. Poor Mink, though. I kinda get the feeling that she won't appreciate the gift...

However, it's good to see Gort be... Gort-ish again.

Speculation time: Maybe Baal is just trying to sow conflict between Mink and Gort. I mean, they're already at each others' throats, and if Mink is in a position of power, she might not be so willing to let Gort treat her as "a minion."
Why fight your enemies when you can make them fight themselves?

[Ignition]

Holy crap, evil people ACTUALLY being corrupting influences rather than Republic serial villains? What is this madness?! Sparta etc. :smallbiggrin:

God I love this comic. Baal!Tyr is rapidly becoming one of my favorite characters.

[Komiyan]

I'm glad BaalTyr is going over well, re-reading I seemed to forget to give Tyr a personality of his own, so I'm trying to claw it back a bit now :smalltongue:

[Ignition]

I have to say, even though she's got a listed height of five-two, Mink can really fill a room with her anger :smallwink: That's impressive. Especially how her grief is presented, showing a brief amount of very human fragility underneath the protective shell of wrath and tyrannical ambition. Deep stuff.

[Glass Mouse]

Man, today's page (http://darkencomic.com/?p=2563) is a relief!

I had completely forgotten that Minks had been run through... so I looked it up, and it's here (http://darkencomic.com/?p=329)if anyone else is interested.

Huh, in that chapter, Mink and Gort cared a lot more obviously for each other. That curse... or time, maybe... has really put a damper on their relationship :smallfrown:

[Ignition]

Well, to be fair, she did almost stand in the way of his ascension, and you do not do that to Gort :smallwink: I can understand why they'd be PO'd at each other, given their differing opinions on who should be in power. Also, I think they DO still care for each other a great deal, but they just can't necessarily trust each other, which is more reason why their relationship is strained; they clearly want to, but evidence points to that being a Bad Idea, resulting in pain for them both (despite their pride against showing it). This will be fascinating to watch!

Also, Lyam is awesome :smallbiggrin:

[Glass Mouse]

@Ignition: Of course that's why! I just plowed through the archive since Mink's stabbing, and you're right - it's obviously after Gort's ascension that things changed.
Oh well. It's more fuel to my theory that Baal's plan is to drive them apart.

Something that I stumbled across, though... It's easy to see Gort's small displays of affection - caring about Mink's well-being, cursing himself to safe her, allowing her to yell at him, not killing her for withholding the crown, etc. Whereas Mink's only signs are... getting easily mad at him.
I just wonder if the affection really does go both ways...

[Ignition]

Oh well. It's more fuel to my theory that Baal's plan is to drive them apart.

Makes sense; a warlord is nothing without a party to lead :smallwink: Gort may have power, but his success comes from the loyalty of his people. Baal is nothing if not the essence of rot, after all; it makes total sense that he would seek Gort's biggest strength (his feelings for Mink) and weaken it.


Something that I stumbled across, though... It's easy to see Gort's small displays of affection - caring about Mink's well-being, cursing himself to safe her, allowing her to yell at him, not killing her for withholding the crown, etc. Whereas Mink's only signs are... getting easily mad at him.
I just wonder if the affection really does go both ways...

I have wondered much the same. It will be interesting to see what happens out of her mother being gone; it strikes me that she's been so concerned about getting her mother back into power and un-cursed that I'm not sure it ever occured to her to ask, "Hey, what happens when my mother is no longer my primary motivation?" I mean, heck, her mom's a dragon, and it is apparently very unusual and unlikely in Darken for dragons to die; she never thought about what happens if her mother's gone.

I'd like to think she has feelings for Gort, but she always had a higher calling - I mean, hello, she's a priestess :smallwink: - until now. We'll see where her loyalties lie.

[Glass Mouse]

Makes sense; a warlord is nothing without a party to lead :smallwink: Gort may have power, but his success comes from the loyalty of his people. Baal is nothing if not the essence of rot, after all; it makes total sense that he would seek Gort's biggest strength (his feelings for Mink) and weaken it.

Besides, Mink is basically Gort's brain. A clever Mink and a powerful Gort is a dangerous combination.
I also view Mink as one of the main forces that keep the party together. Sure, they all officially follow Gort, but without Mink they would've all killed each other by now. If it comes to a power struggle between Gort and Mink, I'm only really sure about Komi's loyalty (which may change, even, depending on Casper).


I'd like to think she has feelings for Gort, but she always had a higher calling - I mean, hello, she's a priestess :smallwink: - until now. We'll see where her loyalties lie.

An interesting point. My first thought was "but Mink is a priestess of Hextor, so her priorities should be unchanged!", but there is a possibility that her loyalty to Hextor is very closely tied to her loyalty to Silvador. She has probably been raised to view those two as closely intertwined.
You may be right that we'll see her re-evaluate.

[Ignition]

Come now, we always know where Jill stands too: wherever gives her the best vantage point to look down her nose at you :smallwink: Some things never change, haha.

Arg, all this conspiring about whether Mink's brain is still in Gort's head is making me want more pages.

[Glass Mouse]

Haha. Y'know, that simultaneously makes Jill the most predictable and the most unpredictable. Which is why she's such an awesome character.

...is it really true that she's unpopular among the general fandom?

[Komiyan]

Haha. Y'know, that simultaneously makes Jill the most predictable and the most unpredictable. Which is why she's such an awesome character.

...is it really true that she's unpopular among the general fandom?

Yes, actually, which has always slightly confused me. Maybe it's because she's generally above everything, I don't know. If you check back through the comic she's only been physically struck once since it's not her style to take a hit. Maybe that makes her harder to relate to.

Still, I'm fine with that, she's not meant to be anyone's friend.

[Ignition]

Haha. Y'know, that simultaneously makes Jill the most predictable and the most unpredictable. Which is why she's such an awesome character.

...is it really true that she's unpopular among the general fandom?

If that's true, the general fandom's tastes are questionable at best :smallwink: Casper said it right when he said "I don't know I'll ever understand [Jill]", and at the same time, that one statement completely sums her tactics up - keep them guessing, while always making sure their guesses are wrong, and have no information upon which to make those guesses.

I love Jill dearly; she is one of those rare fictional female characters who is powerful while not shedding her femininity or treating it like a hindrance (although you could make a case to me that she is clearly inspired by Lady MacBeth, and so her femininity is meaningless to her character); she's talented, knowledgable, utterly devious, and above all, motivated by something other than protecting her kids. As filled with contempt for her fellows as she is, she's a truly empowered, respectable woman.

[Glass Mouse]

I second Ignition's assesment of the fanbase, then! :smallwink:
Huh, I just read through the entire archive, and I don't remember a single hit being landed on Jill (except the Beholder thing). Do I have a bad memory, or is she just so good at playing it off that I'm excused?

Ignition, I absolutely agree about Jill. I'd like to add, though, that I think Mink is an even better example, though her feminity is a lot more downtoned. I especially loved her girly reaction when purchasing the hammer ("It's so... SMITEY!") - intelligent, strong, and still silly-ly girly from time to time. Most "strong" women in fiction are either complete bitches, men with boobs or femme fatales. It's very refreshing to see female characters with actual personalities.

[Ignition]

Regarding Jill taking hits, I believe she got punched in the face once, either when she and Mink were alone together in Purgatory, or possibly in that kitchen where she was dodging the orc lady's arrows. It left a skuff and she didn't exactly take it well :smallwink:

Also, yeah, I don't want to downplay Mink's strength as a character; she is, as you say, an excellent example of how to do female characters well, and is absolutely a contributing factor to why I keep reading the comic. I just have a special place in my cold, obsidian heart for Jill's ruthlessness and efficiency. :smallbiggrin: Everything is seconded, thirded, and fourthed regarding the lack of quality female characters in the greater gestalt of fiction, haha.

[Glass Mouse]

I'm pretty sure she wasn't hit either of those times. When she met Kagu (the archer orc), though, she was forced into retreat (http://darkencomic.com/?p=420), and it certainly didn't please her (http://darkencomic.com/?p=422).

In Purgatory, she was angry when Komi came to her (and Mink's) rescue (http://darkencomic.com/?p=470). But nope, no hits or wounds, not even when the angry dragon caught up with them.

Oh hey, another cool "sums up Jill" quote: Last panel (http://darkencomic.com/?p=1009).

[Ignition]

My bad, I guessed incorrectly twice :smallwink: Here (http://darkencomic.com/?p=1160), Michaelus punched Jill in the face, and she didn't take it well.

[Glass Mouse]

Ooh, nice find! You weren't kidding - she looks mad!

Y'know, I never actually cared much for Michaelus. There was something terribly unsympathetic about the way he tried to turn friends into foes, sneaking around and being backstabby. It kinda made him seem like a hypocrite to me.
...or maybe I'm just biased because he worked against my favorite characters :smallwink:

[Ignition]

Yeah, I typed in "Jill Punch" into the search thing, haha.

Michaelus was an interesting character while he lasted, but yeah, he was a bit too heavy-handed when I think about it. He shifted between Lawful Neutral and Chaotic Neutral a bit too 'easily', even when accounting for the curse he bore; I guess that being bound to his destructive nature, he had to 'overcompensate' on his moralizing while human. Still, he was an interesting experiment and made the plot more complex, so I can't fault him for being misguided, haha.

[Glass Mouse]

That's actually an interesting (while D&D-ish) analysis, and I think you're right. Michaelus, thinking himself Lawful Good, kept alternating between LN and CN.
Hypocrites and paradox characters are always interesting story-wise, and he was definitely well-written in that regard.
I also really liked how he highlighted the party's internal conflicts (I'm kinda still hoping there'll be some sort of pay-off of his death).

Still doesn't make him sympathetic, though :smalltongue:

[Ignition]

That's probably why he acted the way he acted: he was as much a device as an actual character, whereas the main cast is made up of people with serious personality behind them. Kind of like a seer or a mentor (Komi's little friend Blackshard and Casper's amulet), his purpose in the story was to highlight the existing conflicts of the main cast. From a literary perspective, I see Michaelus as a challenge, a construct of the larger plot, rather than another character on the same level as the protagonist party.

[Glass Mouse]

Huh. That's pretty clever - and very spot-on why I had a problem with the character but not the role.

Not sure I agree that Shard is on the list, though. He's as much a character as a device at this point - maybe partly because his "function" is not made obvious yet.

[Ignition]

That's true; I'm wondering if Blackshard's an example of an ascended plot element, by virtue of him being so lovably evil, he got more complex as the plot went on, rather than less.

He reminds me of a less joke-y version of Lilarcor (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Lilarcor), haha.

[Glass Mouse]

This is a bad time for me to admit that I've never played BG2, isn't it? :smallwink:

In any case, I think I'll go to bed now - it's way past midnight over here. But thanks for the discussion, Ignition - it was a lot of fun :smallsmile:
See ya around!

[Komiyan]

That's true; I'm wondering if Blackshard's an example of an ascended plot element, by virtue of him being so lovably evil, he got more complex as the plot went on, rather than less.

Yes, he is. Originally he wasn't meant to have possessed a permanent body, he was meant to have turned on Komiyan a lot sooner and got him into a lot of trouble. On a sort of whim I went with this, and, as it turns out, it all fits pretty neatly with the ending. Lucky me..!

[Ignition]

Yes, he is. Originally he wasn't meant to have possessed a permanent body, he was meant to have turned on Komiyan a lot sooner and got him into a lot of trouble. On a sort of whim I went with this, and, as it turns out, it all fits pretty neatly with the ending. Lucky me..!

So you're saying the possessed knife was supposed to backstab its owner? Who didn't see that coming? :smallwink:

But really, he works better in his current form, I agree. There are only so many "LET'S GO HACK STUFF UP NOW", lovable sociopath, HK-47 type jokes you can make before it becomes tired; making him into a trickster shape-shifting spirit bound to a marble was smart.

Now if only we could get more pages... :smallwink:

[Glass Mouse]

I seriously don't believe this guy is evil. (http://darkencomic.com/?p=2571)

Also, now I really wonder what Vargo's and Lyam's full names are :smallbiggrin:

Oh, and I'm sorry about your landlord, Komi. That's sucky. Good luck finding a new place soon.

[Ignition]

Good luck with the moving business, Komi. It is no fun, that's for sure.

Also, glad to see Mink's the official queen; she's got the shrewdness necessary. The only thing about this episode that annoys me is that I, personally, know it will be an age and a day before we know what Gort and Mink are going to do to work out her responsibilities to her people, and how that interferes with Gort's need for Mink's council regarding his evil schemes. The anticipation is eating me alive! And not in a friendly way!

I do know, however, it will be worth the wait :smallwink:

[Komiyan]

We will be cool with the moving, I've got a few commissions in and some very kind donations which should cover a large portion of the moving costs, thank god.. Expenses out of nowhere are the bane of freelancers :( If I were a sensible person I'd take a full time job and quit this comic malarky but I am a nutter and I do part time and draw all day.

Mink is a better monarch than her brother already, for one her room is easier to draw and I appreciate this!

[Glass Mouse]

Good to hear the moving thing is working out. Economically, that is :-)
I saw that some people asked about paying you to make the next comic page. Just an idea (no idea if it's stupid or even possible): You could do an "if I get X money in donations, there'll be an extra page next week" or something.


Mink is a better monarch than her brother already, for one her room is easier to draw and I appreciate this!

Haha. Real monarchs have no time for silly, decorative nonsense!
Gods, I miss Gort :smalltongue: