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WarKitty
2010-09-02, 05:12 PM
As title, with "high" being 17+. I've sort of got the observational abilities down, but not the rest really.

Cuaqchi
2010-09-02, 05:16 PM
It really depends on other aspects of the character.

Do they have a high or low charisma? If it is also high then the character will be very empathic and outgoing, willing to work with anyone and capable of leading even diverse groups. If it is low, the character might be an introvert, quite and contemplative not acting until they feel fully secure in what they are doing.

And those are just two options. Add in the options for high or low int, piety, or social and racial constraints and you have a true character rather than a number.

RebelRogue
2010-09-02, 05:16 PM
As someone with amazing common sense, willpower, empathy and practical knowledge: he may not know a lot from an academic viewpoint, but whatever he knows, he puts to great use. It also indicates a sense of maturity and a no-nonsense grasp of the world around him.

All IMO, of course - there's not support for all of this in the rules, I guess.

WarKitty
2010-09-02, 05:20 PM
It really depends on other aspects of the character.

Do they have a high or low charisma? If it is also high then the character will be very empathic and outgoing, willing to work with anyone and capable of leading even diverse groups. If it is low, the character might be an introvert, quite and contemplative not acting until they feel fully secure in what they are doing.

And those are just two options. Add in the options for high or low int, piety, or social and racial constraints and you have a true character rather than a number.

Moderately high int but not spectacular. Other stats are average (9-11).

Tetrasodium
2010-09-02, 05:22 PM
what type of class is it?

WarKitty
2010-09-02, 05:30 PM
what type of class is it?

Caster. Think I'll leave you guys to speculate as to which one - I want to avoid running into the common stereotypes.

Snake-Aes
2010-09-02, 05:38 PM
So above-average int, average cha, high wis.
He should be quick to pick on hints, but you said you got that already.

What have you defined of her or his personality?

Spiryt
2010-09-02, 05:39 PM
Dunno if much can be said about "role playing " - as SRD wants :


Wisdom describes a character’s willpower, common sense, perception, and intuition. While Intelligence represents one’s ability to analyze information, Wisdom represents being in tune with and aware of one’s surroundings. Wisdom is the most important ability for clerics and druids, and it is also important for paladins and rangers. If you want your character to have acute senses, put a high score in Wisdom. Every creature has a Wisdom score.

If Wisdom is definitely highest score, it will be perceptive, strong willed, etc. person.

Abilities shouldn't affect PC personality too much IMO, as it kinda leaves us with limited choices, and gives them way too much meaning.

But certain tendency to be collected, not easily shaken, and determined when the need arises would be probably obvious. To the point of unsetling/shocking other people with not so formidable spirit in case of very high scores.

WarKitty
2010-09-02, 05:41 PM
So above-average int, average cha, high wis.
He should be quick to pick on hints, but you said you got that already.

What have you defined of her or his personality?

It's not super-well defined because I wanted to figure out how to work the wisdom into it first. Fairly young, a bit of a loner but not exclusively. Has a high admiration for her mentor and wants to be just like him. Mentor was borderline evil (he lost his evil alignment at the end of the last campaign but remained rather a SOB); she has some tendencies that way but is fiercely loyal to friends. Sort of laid back, not likely to get easily upset or push too hard on most issues.

Snake-Aes
2010-09-02, 05:54 PM
A more perceptive character can be more appreciative of little things in the environment. A cool breeze or the color of the leaves of dryadfall trees in autumn...
And of course, she can be utterly bitter about it. If you have a hearing keen enough to hear perfectly well a conversation going on inside the house on the other side of the street, sleeping might be a bitch. (my incarnate/psyW character will end the game with easily over +52 to perception. She can count the hairs on your head from a mile away)

She will also be incredibly resolute once she sets her mind. It can translate into cold zeal if it's something she's too emotionally attached to (wisdom also raises the bar for -too emotionally attached to judge reasonably-), or apparent stubbornness.

Ajadea
2010-09-02, 05:55 PM
Can I add my query into the pile? My character has 19+ Wisdom and lives in a world where everything under the sun is trying to kill you. I can roleplay anything from like 6-18, but we're talking superhuman awareness of herself and those around her (no ranks in Sense Motive/Gather Information, as those are cross-class)

Help?

@Warkitty: Medium Int/High Wis/Average Cha will think before he/she speaks, be more of a 'power behind the throne' than the actual face of the party. They have a very strong gut instinct that is often right. Especially if you are some sort of Lawful Divine Caster, you could easily become the Team Mom, the one everyone trusts even and will fall back to even if they wouldn't trust the rest of the team with a copper piece.

If highly Chaotic, you might follow your impulses and trust that they will lead you the right way, even if these impulses and instincts are completely confusing to your intellectual side. Your gut tends to be right, and the rules can #%& themselves for all you care.

Got nothing about the evil tendencies though.

WarKitty
2010-09-02, 05:57 PM
Can I add my query into the pile? My character has 19+ Wisdom and lives in a world where everything under the sun is trying to kill you. I can roleplay anything from like 6-18, but we're talking superhuman awareness of herself and those around her (no ranks in Sense Motive/Gather Information, as those are cross-class)

Help?

@Warkitty: Medium Int/High Wis/Average Cha will think before he/she speaks, be more of a 'power behind the throne' than the actual face of the party. They have a very strong gut instinct that is often right. Especially if you are some sort of Lawful Divine Caster, you could easily become the Team Mom, the one everyone trusts even and will fall back to even if they wouldn't trust the rest of the team with a copper piece.

If highly Chaotic, you might follow your impulses and trust that they will lead you the right way, even if these impulses and instincts are completely confusing to your intellectual side. Your gut tends to be right, and the rules can #%& themselves for all you care.

Not bad. She's a bit young and inexperienced to be "team mom" - maybe team big sis? I haven't pegged alignment but she's not really strongly anything, probably starting with TN and seeing where I end up.

Yucca
2010-09-02, 06:04 PM
One thing I'd expect an {avg INT, high WIS} character to be is very perceptive with a good memory. Take notes on everything, who the party talked to, when, what was discussed, &c. The character would have a good intuitive knowledge of what previous tidbit would be helpful in a given situation.

She might also be the party's puzzle solver, maybe not the one that figures out the puzzle, but figures out the method of solving it.

Snake-Aes
2010-09-02, 06:06 PM
Puzzle solving is an intelligence trait, not wisdom.

Dienekes
2010-09-02, 06:11 PM
Be incredibly vague, in a pinch vagueness can look like real wisdom without actually being wise.

Talk about the beauty of trees and the color of wind and the like as though they were of huge philosophical breakthroughs and sigh when everyone else has no idea what you're getting at.

Or at least, that's how I do it in joke campaigns anyway.

Ajadea
2010-09-02, 06:19 PM
Ah, both me and WarKitty's characters have above-average Intelligence.

WarKitty
2010-09-02, 06:20 PM
Be incredibly vague, in a pinch vagueness can look like real wisdom without actually being wise.

Talk about the beauty of trees and the color of wind and the like as though they were of huge philosophical breakthroughs and sigh when everyone else has no idea what you're getting at.

Or at least, that's how I do it in joke campaigns anyway.

Serious campaign, sorry. I'm picturing a more down to earth character, sort of a *shrug* however you want to see things is fine by me...

Xefas
2010-09-02, 06:24 PM
Different Perspective:

Sure, you could be just another "enlightened", "common sense", "perceptive" person who uses their intuition to progress their modest, sensible goals (for good or evil).

Or, you could be a slavering, unbalanced, lunatic who has stared into the Maw of Sensibility, and rejected it totally. They understand concepts like "reasonable", "fair", "non-horrifyingly-bigoted", but they only maintain such understanding to more effectively leap, screaming, with two battle axes into those concepts faces and mutilate them.

"Empathy" is full comprehension of the horrors your self-disfigured howling visage imparts on all the innocents around you as you make it absolutely clear that the ones you murder in the street are the truly fortunate.

"Temperance" is knowing what will make the foolish meat-creatures that you prey upon hesitate long enough for you liberate their insides from their outsiders.

Indeed, they have gone insane from all the lack of insanity. Kind of like someone with fame and fortune who is so utterly depressed because of how famous and rich they are. All that wisdom is just a sham, it's no good for anyone. BLOW IT ALL UP!
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad91/bluejanus/01.jpg

/mad stan

Snake-Aes
2010-09-02, 06:28 PM
It's an interesting setup. But she won't be, by what Kitty said, a raving lunatic.
If you want to use the "tormented by your own awareness", you can give it subtle hints. Like how she avoid cats, because she can see the spark of malicious intelligence in their eyes (Hi, mr Lovecraft!).
Or she can deal with things in an odd way, not unlike "the village idiot", to keep people from noticing just how perceptive (and consequentially dangerous) she is.

She can also be weary, someone who keeps noticing things they don't want to and when they talk about it, the words themselves seem to weigh a ton into your very soul.

WarKitty
2010-09-02, 06:31 PM
If it makes a difference, character is 16-17 on her first time away from family.

Snake-Aes
2010-09-02, 06:34 PM
What is the approach of the setting's societies about age? Do they consider a chick aged 13 "just ready for marriage"? Do women actually get to have power over something other pussywhipped husbands? How were said parents before? If she left on bad terms, she could have a more bitter outlook on life due to learning things the hard way.

WarKitty
2010-09-02, 06:38 PM
What is the approach of the setting's societies about age? Do they consider a chick aged 13 "just ready for marriage"? Do women actually get to have power over something other pussywhipped husbands? How were said parents before? If she left on bad terms, she could have a more bitter outlook on life due to learning things the hard way.

She's a "monstrous" race, so that's going to change a lot of the reactions. The DM is being rather close-mouthed about the setting overall. She basically grew up away from civilization with a non-traditional family setting, raised by a father in his chosen community of various races. Normal civilization is going to be a shock to her. She's the only child in her community of ~8, had a fairly thorough but fairly wild upbringing. Knows far too much about sex but not much clue about marriage. Might also affect things that she is actually 14 but born of a fast-aging race. Parent sent her out to "learn the world and grow," she adores him and hopes to follow in his shoes.

Edit: leaving, no more responses for ~1hr.

Snake-Aes
2010-09-02, 06:41 PM
You could make her an "sensory input addict". She'd be far too eager to experiment new passtimes, new foods, the noises around her, the smells, the people...
Until she gets in trouble, that is.

Balain
2010-09-02, 06:48 PM
The problem with roleplaying a character with high wisdom (like 17 that you suggested) is most people are that wise. There are some people out there that are that wise but not many.

The best way to play wise characters is to play them as wise as you can. Maybe think of wise characters from movies or books and act like them.

dsmiles
2010-09-02, 06:49 PM
Moderately high int but not spectacular. Other stats are average (9-11).

That's too bad, I love playing high wis, low int characters.

Arillius
2010-09-02, 07:12 PM
It really all depends on what you think a high wisdom means. Does it just mean a perceptive character, or pperhaps someone wise with years and experience?

I always thought of wisdom allowing a character to be cunning without being intelligent. A person with a high Intel could plan for hundreds of different scenarios, but a person with high wisdom could pick out which one of these might seem most likely and plan for that one alone. His plans would be simpler, relying more on his perceptions of his enemies motives and goals then on being able to account for every possible scenario with a plan.

A friend of mine said it rather well once, person with a high intel knows what to say, a person with high cha knows how to say it, a person with high wisdom knows when to say it.

My character was cunning and ruthless. He had the sense to know which battles he couldn't win, and the intuition to know how to get others to win it for him. He had nothing but Cha and Wis and I used those stats well up until the party dumped my unconscious form into a river. I think the DM's going to make him a recurring villain now.

WarKitty
2010-09-02, 07:45 PM
It really all depends on what you think a high wisdom means. Does it just mean a perceptive character, or pperhaps someone wise with years and experience?

I always thought of wisdom allowing a character to be cunning without being intelligent. A person with a high Intel could plan for hundreds of different scenarios, but a person with high wisdom could pick out which one of these might seem most likely and plan for that one alone. His plans would be simpler, relying more on his perceptions of his enemies motives and goals then on being able to account for every possible scenario with a plan.

A friend of mine said it rather well once, person with a high intel knows what to say, a person with high cha knows how to say it, a person with high wisdom knows when to say it.

My character was cunning and ruthless. He had the sense to know which battles he couldn't win, and the intuition to know how to get others to win it for him. He had nothing but Cha and Wis and I used those stats well up until the party dumped my unconscious form into a river. I think the DM's going to make him a recurring villain now.

My problem is I'm not quite sure what wisdom means exactly - except that it's my RL dump stat I'm pretty sure. :smalltongue: I autofail sense motive and I have no clue at all what is and isn't a good idea.

@Balain: Ummm what? I think there's a typo in there somewhere.

Zhalath
2010-09-02, 07:45 PM
Ask people about their mothers. :smallwink:

I play characters with high Wisdom as being very perceptive, obviously. I invest in Sense Motive, so I have those characters cut down to the heart of an issue. I also have them list off off-observations. Skepticism often factors in. Finally, they're rather driven (they don't fail Will saves often, after all).

WarKitty
2010-09-02, 07:46 PM
Ask people about their mothers. :smallwink:

Oh good lord no, I play with the psychotic mother brigade.

Zhalath
2010-09-02, 08:59 PM
Oh good lord no, I play with the psychotic mother brigade.

Ask NPCs about their mothers. Make your GM work.

Oh, stay calm. People with high Wisdom tend to be calm and collected. When they are angry, they're focused about it, and that doesn't happen often. At least, that's what my druid-playing friend does every time.

ericgrau
2010-09-02, 09:03 PM
You could be observant in general, not just limited to your 5 senses. Maybe you're vocal about what you notice, or maybe you quietly think about them to yourself (using int).

Captain Six
2010-09-02, 09:07 PM
My high wisdom characters usually break the normal stereotype and are played as incredibly spontaneous. Planning ahead is what intelligence is for. I'm high wisdom, I see everything, I hear everything and my force of will is unparalleled. Wisdom is the "right now" mental stat. I can throw myself into anything and figure out how to survive every second as it comes to me.

WarKitty
2010-09-02, 09:16 PM
My high wisdom characters usually break the normal stereotype and are played as incredibly spontaneous. Planning ahead is what intelligence is for. I'm high wisdom, I see everything, I hear everything and my force of will is unparalleled. Wisdom is the "right now" mental stat. I can throw myself into anything and figure out how to survive every second as it comes to me.

I kind of like that.

@Zhalath: maybe ask them about their fathers. Character does not have a mother (magic stuff) but idolizes her father.

Serpentine
2010-09-02, 10:40 PM
I have a low-intelligence high-wisdom streetrat character. She's lackin' in book-smarts, but she has a well-developed sense of self-preservation.*

I'm just gonna throw out a bunch of things I would associate with high Wisdom. Mix'n'match.

Common sense.
Instincts.
Perceptiveness (not just "good eyesight").
Intuition.
Hunches.
Awareness of one's surroundings.
"Just-so" reasoning.
Life experience.
Empathy.
Understanding.
Application of knowledge.




*If you want to be unkind, she's a bit of a coward.

Orzel
2010-09-02, 11:05 PM
I typically go the "I see all but know nothing" route. I played a high wisdom low intelligence cleric who SAW and HEARD EVERYTHING. Too bad he was too stupid to know what everything meant and could not absorb the info flood. So lets others do that.

"That tea smells like that one guy who got poisoned. Why are you smiling? Yum."

RebelRogue
2010-09-02, 11:13 PM
Am I the only one to think that people tend to upplay the perception part of Wisdom a bit much? I realize it's been a defining feature since 3.0 made it the basis of Listen/Spot, but to me that is but a by-product (or rather - Wisdom was the stat that fit the least bad :smallwink: ).

WarKitty
2010-09-02, 11:15 PM
Am I the only one to think that people tend to upplay the perception part of Wisdom a bit much? I realize it's been a defining feature since 3.0 made it the basis of Listen/Spot, but to me that is but a by-product (or rather - Wisdom was the stat that fit the least bad :smallwink: ).

Hence why I posted this. I *know* about the listen/spot stuff...but that's pretty darn boring.

Aotrs Commander
2010-09-03, 06:30 AM
Perception isn't all spot and listen, though. It can also be insight into other people, knowing what makes them tick, figuring out why they act like they do.

Or high Wis could be good old-fashioned common-sense ala the Way of Mrs. Cosmopilite...

Snake-Aes
2010-09-03, 06:35 AM
Hence why I posted this. I *know* about the listen/spot stuff...but that's pretty darn boring.

You could always do silly things with a curiously brilliant insight behind them. Makes for good comedy duos with people that take things far too seriously.

Devils_Advocate
2010-09-04, 02:11 PM
I'm assuming that this is for a Dungeons & Dragons game, but which edition? I'll guess 3.5, partly because that's what I'm most familiar with.

It has been said that "Intelligence is knowing what to do; Wisdom is doing it" (http://www.angryflower.com/lordot.gif). Also that "Intelligence is how smart you are; Wisdom is how dumb you aren't". Wisdom might be associated with rationality in contrast to the raw brainpower that Intelligence represents, and thus indeed most easily understood as what it isn't (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases). (Sanity is essentially just conventional rationality, and insanity unconventional irrationality.)

To believe is not to grok, nor vice versa. To illustrate: One may comprehend, on an intellectual level, that pain itself is simply a physical sensation, and that we suffer only in how we react to it; and that, knowing that pain is not bad in the absence of a negative reaction, one should not react negatively to it. But it's another thing to actually not mind being set on fire, which in turn may not require any sort of formal conceptualization of the situation. Hence willpower: Grokking that a choice exists enables one to make it.

(Of course, Concentration checks aren't Wisdom-based, but they should be. Or maybe they should just be replaced with Will saves.)

Does that help?

To go on a bit of a tangent: Charisma would probably make more sense as the spellcasting stat for Clerics (and Paladins). Perhaps even more than Intelligence, Wisdom seems to be, conceptually, an ability score that allows one to find correct answers. In part. Thus it's a little odd for two characters largely defined by mutually incompatible, violently opposed worldviews to both have high Wisdom scores. Certainly there's an argument to be made that truly understanding one's philosophy may mean acknowledging competing philosophies to be equally valid, but that doesn't seem to me to be part of the basic priestly archetype.

And then there are specific examples like Sune teaching that beauty reflects a creature's inner nature, which is pretty plainly unwise and also factually incorrect. And yet Sune has a Wisdom score of 35. Deities themselves, never mind their followers, often seem to be described as possessing knowledge, understanding, and morality that are at odds with what they say and do.

And it's like that in D&D, too. :smalltongue:

Dirty n Evil
2010-09-05, 02:33 AM
I would encourage you to look at the skills that base off of Wisdom, and tell you to consider that these are avenues of likely strength for this character. With Spot, Survival, and Sense Motive... you're looking at a character who's most likely aware and insightful. Keep in mind that "insightful" is different than "learned" - the character is more likely to look beneath the surface, and see the "why" of a thing.

A character with a high intelligence may encounter a squeaky fence and decide to take the hinge entirely apart. Decide that the hinge itself is not faulty, and re-attach the hinge at a very minor downward angle so that the weight of the fence door not create the extra friction that results in the squeak.

A character with a high wisdom may encounter a squeaky fence and get a daub of oil and apply it to the joint. They realize they could have spent all day fussing and obsessing with the hinge, but that one tiny drop of oil will keep the hing working fine for months. They have more important things to do that day.