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Greyfeld
2010-09-02, 08:01 PM
So, I'm working on a Tibbit Sorcerer, and after googling for a good couple hours, I realized that sorcerer handbooks/builds are very very few and far between. There are plenty of Wizard builds, but those only go so far when they're built under the assumption that you have a huge friggin spell list.

So, that said, are there any long time players or DMs who could give me a few pointers for good Sorcerer builds?

Currently, I'm taking the Metamagic Specialist class feature (from PHB2, replacing my familiar), and the feats Surrogate Spellcasting (Savage Species), Eschew Materials and Improved Initiative.

Before anybody asks:

I took Metamagic Specialist because I felt that it worked better, thematically, for a Tibbit sorcerer than letting her run around with her own familiar.

Surrogate Spellcasting is to allow for casting while in kitty form.

Eschew Materials, also to allow for casting while in kitty form.

Improved Initiative, for better combat initiative, and because we're starting the game at level 3, making metamagic about pointless to pick up for another 3 levels.

Cadian 9th
2010-09-02, 08:08 PM
I can fuffill a long time player and DM part, But I'd like to ask, whats a Tibbit?

And If you're in "Kitty" form, which I assume is something related to Tibbit :smallbiggrin: You'll also need Still and Silent spells since a kitten cannot speak the words nor make the rude hand gestures neccasary to cast a spell.

EDIT: Sorry, missed Surrogate Spell.

Perhaps its worth keeping the familiar, they're dead useful if you play em right.

Fax Celestis
2010-09-02, 08:12 PM
One of my favorite builds:

The Far Hand of Shar
Human Sorceror (PHB-II Variant) 5/Spellthief 1/Spellwarp Sniper 2/Shadow Adept 2/Arcane Devotee 1/Spellwarp Sniper +3/Child of Night 3/Uncanny Trickster 3

Caster level 18
Steal Spell (9th)
Turns 7th level and lower into rays, or can shape any spell with Shape Spell.

ECL 1: Metamagic Specialist (3+Int/Day), CL 1, Feat (Enlarge Spell), Human Bonus Feat (Shadow Weave Magic)
ECL 2: CL 2
ECL 3: CL 3, Feat (Point Blank Shot)
ECL 4: CL 4, Stat Increase (+1 Cha)
ECL 5: CL 5
ECL 6: Sneak Attack +1d6, Steal Spell (3rd), CL 5+1, Feat (Master Spellthief)
ECL 7: Spellwarp (1st), Steal Spell (4th), CL 6+1
ECL 8: Spellwarp (2nd), Sudden Raystrike +1d6, CL 7+1, Stat Increase (+1 Cha)
ECL 9: Insidious Magic, Pernicious Magic, Tenacious Magic, Steal Spell (5th), CL 8+1, Feat (Arcane Disciple (Envy))
ECL 10: Low Light Vision, CL 9+1
ECL 11: Reach of the Holy (1+Cha/day), Steal Spell (6th), CL 10+1
ECL 12: Spellwarp (3rd), Precise Shot, CL 11+1, Feat (Invisible Spell), Stat Increase (+1 Cha)
ECL 13: Spellwarp (4th), Sudden Raystrike +2d6, Steal Spell (7th), CL 12+1
ECL 14: Spellwarp (5th), Ray Mastery, CL 13+1
ECL 15: Cloak of Shadows (+CoS level to Hide), Cold Resist 5, Steal Spell (8th), CL 13+1, Feat (Shape Spell)
ECL 16: Sustaining Shadow (1 meal/week), CL 14+1, Stat Increase (+1 Cha)
ECL 17: Dancing Shadows (1/day), Steal Spell (9th), CL 15+1
ECL 18: Bonus Trick, Favorite Trick, CL 15+1, Feat (Quicken Spell)
ECL 19: Bonus Trick, Favorite Trick, CL 16+1
ECL 20: Bonus Trick, Favorite Trick, Tricky Defense, CL 17+1, Stat Increase (+1 Cha)

Greyfeld
2010-09-02, 08:23 PM
I can fuffill a long time player and DM part, But I'd like to ask, whats a Tibbit?

And If you're in "Kitty" form, which I assume is something related to Tibbit :smallbiggrin: You'll also need Still and Silent spells since a kitten cannot speak the words nor make the rude hand gestures neccasary to cast a spell.

EDIT: Sorry, missed Surrogate Spell.

Perhaps its worth keeping the familiar, they're dead useful if you play em right.

I plan on getting Silent/Still Spell feats eventually as well. They're incredibly useful, even in humanoid form.

Tibbits are a race about the size of a halfling that can turn into a cat as a racial ability. The race supposedly has its roots in the ancestors of mage familiars. They're found in the Dragon Compendium

To the other poster, I appreciate the build breakdown, but I'm looking for something that doesn't require a dip in 7 different classes >.>

Fax Celestis
2010-09-02, 08:24 PM
To the other poster, I appreciate the build breakdown, but I'm looking for something that doesn't require a dip in 7 different classes >.>

Well, the simpler version is Sorcerer 6/Spellthief 1/Spellwarp Sniper 5/Uncanny Trickster 3/Whateveryouwant 5. The key is using Uncanny Trickster on Spellwarp Sniper to get your Spellwarp ability up to 7th.

Greyfeld
2010-09-02, 08:26 PM
Well, the simpler version is Sorcerer 6/Spellthief 1/Spellwarp Sniper 5/Uncanny Trickster 3/Whateveryouwant 5.

I'll take a look at Spellwarp Sniper and Uncanny Trickster and see what they have to offer. May I ask why Spellthief? With the sorcerer's lower BAB, i would think that abilities involving attack rolls would be a bad idea.

Fax Celestis
2010-09-02, 08:32 PM
I'll take a look at Spellwarp Sniper and Uncanny Trickster and see what they have to offer. May I ask why Spellthief? With the sorcerer's lower BAB, i would think that abilities involving attack rolls would be a bad idea.

Spellwarp Sniper needs sneak attack, and Spellthief with Master Spellthief gets that for you with no caster level loss. Plus, if you shoot someone with a ray and they're flat-footed, you can drop the sneak damage to steal spells off them. Against touch AC, BAB matters very little.

Thurbane
2010-09-02, 08:36 PM
I'd consider possibly swapping Metamagic Specialist to Spell Shield (Dungeonscape) - it will make your character a lot more durable at low-mid levels, and you can always grab the Rapid Metamagic feat at 9th level...

Also, as others have suggested, PrC out of Sorc as early as possible, especially if you don't have a familiar to advance. Fatespinner and Wild Mage aren't too bad if you have the skills to spare.

Cadian 9th
2010-09-02, 08:36 PM
Actually, Fax has a point: Though I would reccomned a level of Sneak Attack Armoured Mage Fighter - He'll get armoured casting, sneak attack and a small boost to fort.

Greyfeld
2010-09-02, 08:43 PM
Spellwarp Sniper needs sneak attack, and Spellthief with Master Spellthief gets that for you with no caster level loss. Plus, if you shoot someone with a ray and they're flat-footed, you can drop the sneak damage to steal spells off them. Against touch AC, BAB matters very little.

Fair enough. On another note, I was just looking at Uncanny Trickster. Why would you choose that PrC over Magical Trickster?


I'd consider possibly swapping Metamagic Specialist to Spell Shield (Dungeonscape) - it will make your character a lot more durable at low-mid levels, and you can always grab the Rapid Metamagic feat at 9th level...

I'll take a look at it and see what I think of it.

Fax Celestis
2010-09-02, 08:49 PM
Fair enough. On another note, I was just looking at Uncanny Trickster. Why would you choose that PrC over Magical Trickster?

The "+1 level of existing class features" ability not only advances spellcasting, but counts as levels in that class for level-based effects. Spellwarp Sniper says you can "warp spells of up to your class level", and it's a 5 level class. Uncanny Trickster lets you stretch that cap to 7th level spells. Features that follow a pattern also advance, so you get to keep your full spellcasting and get another die of Sudden Raystrike.

Greyfeld
2010-09-02, 08:51 PM
The "+1 level of existing class features" ability not only advances spellcasting, but counts as levels in that class for level-based effects. Spellwarp Sniper says you can "warp spells of up to your class level", and it's a 5 level class. Uncanny Trickster lets you stretch that cap to 7th level spells. Features that follow a pattern also advance, so you get to keep your full spellcasting and get another die of Sudden Raystrike.

But in doing so, I'd be giving up 3 levels of spellcasting, wouldn't I?


I'd consider possibly swapping Metamagic Specialist to Spell Shield (Dungeonscape) - it will make your character a lot more durable at low-mid levels, and you can always grab the Rapid Metamagic feat at 9th level...

So, I looked at the ability and I think I'm going to stick with Metamagic Specialist. Fact is, I should be able to avoid damage most of the time already just by virtue of being a spellcaster. But on top of that, I'm also going to be casting in kitty form a lot of the time, and who the hell is going to think to attack the cat that just happens to be around the battlefield at the time?

Fax Celestis
2010-09-02, 08:55 PM
But in doing so, I'd be giving up 3 levels of spellcasting, wouldn't I?

Nope. You'd advance the Spellwarp Sniper's "+1 level of existing spellcasting class" class feature, since it follows a set progression ("every level" is a set progression).

Greyfeld
2010-09-02, 08:57 PM
Nope. You'd advance the Spellwarp Sniper's "+1 level of existing spellcasting class" class feature, since it follows a set progression ("every level" is a set progression).

fair enough. That build looks interesting for sure. Are there any other popular sorcerer builds to look through? Or perhaps preferred feats I should consider?

Fax Celestis
2010-09-02, 09:03 PM
Well, there's the gishly builds.

Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Ex 4/Eldritch Knight 4

Simplified: Paladin 3/Sorcerer 5/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 7 (little worse, but same net effect).

Cadian 9th
2010-09-02, 09:04 PM
For 3rd level?

Extend comes in useful, I think - especially as you can hide as a cat and safely buff the other characters. You might pick up Arcane Disciple (not sure if sorcerer can take this tho, ) and pick up Healing or something.

Draconic feats, specifically, the White Dragon Lineage and the Copper Dragon lineage - they might be worth a small look.

Greyfeld
2010-09-02, 09:04 PM
What about roguish sorcerer builds?

ericgrau
2010-09-02, 09:07 PM
I build my sorcerer spell lists the same as wizards'. It works well. You get as many or more unique spells prepared, so pick one of your favorite wizards' prepared lists that you use when you don't know what you'll be fighting yet and bam there's your sorcerer spell known list.

Prestige class selection is somewhat similar. It's harder to meet pre-reqs that wizards get from bonus feats but you also have less to lose from taking a PrC. So there's the con and pro when deciding on a PrC.

There are rogue/mage PrCs like arcane trickster or spellwarp snipers that work a lot with sneak attacking ray spells as touch attacks (so it's easier to hit). They work well with empower spell. Good metamagic for sorcerers in general include heighten spell, still spell. They get far more use out of those 2 than wizards, because they can spontaneously use them only when needed, and use a lower level spell slot when not needed. I don't usually bother with extend spell because a lesser rod of extend spell is so cheap and most of the spells you want to extend are 3rd level or lower. If you need to extend higher level spells, then get the feat.

Cadian 9th
2010-09-02, 09:10 PM
That could work, Perhaps a Scout 1/Sorcerer 2 with Draconic Heritage+Dragonfire Strike is getting +2d6 damage if she moves.

Alternatively, a Scout+Armoured Mage Sneak attack Fighter+Sorcerer 1 with Dragonfire strike gets +4d6 when she moves and sneak attacks.

Finally, a Sorcerer 2+bard 1 with Extra music, dragon Fire inspiration, Song of the Heart, a MW Mandolin and a wand of Inspirational boost, You'll get +4d6 Sonic to all attacks and set up the path to Words of Creation For +8d6 or something.

Random NPC
2010-09-02, 09:10 PM
How about the mailman? (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19868534/The_Mailman:_A_Direct_Damage_Sorcerer)

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-09-02, 09:20 PM
Spellwarp Sniper needs sneak attack, and Spellthief with Master Spellthief gets that for you with no caster level loss. Plus, if you shoot someone with a ray and they're flat-footed, you can drop the sneak damage to steal spells off them. Against touch AC, BAB matters very little.

Master Spellthief does the same thing Practiced Spellcaster does, it still puts you a level behind on spells/day, spells known, and the highest level of spells you can cast. Sorcerers are already a level behind in highest level spells available, being two levels behind hurts even worse. I would strongly advise against losing even a single level of spellcasting, as will most optimization guides.

If cat familiars could become Tibbits, it would stand to reason that lizard familiars could develop into a similar race. Ask your DM about making a mechanically identical variant which turns into a lizard, and appears as a kobold in its humanoid form. Take the Draconic Rite of Passage in Races of the Dragon to get the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) and be a level ahead on your spellcasting. You could possibly even take Dragonwrought from Races of the Dragon and turn into a tiny dragon although it wouldn't have any different stats from a lizard. That would allow you to start out venerable age for +3 to your mental stats but no penalty to your physical stats, and you could use the Loredrake archtype from Dragons of Eberron to get yet another +2 levels of Sorcerer spellcasting ability.

There are some amazing Sorcerer-only spells in Races of the Dragon, namely Wings of Cover and Wings of Flurry. Your spells known should include a variety of effects which attack each of the three different saving throws. Grease, Web, and Bands of Steel are good Reflex-save spells. Blindness/Deafness, Nauseating Breath, and Ray of Exhaustion are useful Fort-save spells. Color Spray, Glitterdust, and Slow are some of the better Will-save spells. There are also some amazing no-save effects like Ray of Dizziness, Solid Fog, and Ray of Light. Effects which attack a specific stat like Ray of Stupidity and Black Tentacles are also nice to have on hand. A Wall spell is also good to have on hand, but never more than one.

Summoning spells are also useful, the Summon Undead line is fairly strong at the lower levels. I wouldn't get more than one summon spell, and not in your highest level available. Remember summoned creatures can help with more than just fighting, they can open doors you suspect are trapped or scout ahead for an ambush. Dealing damage is not the best use of spell slots, so get maybe one or two efficient spells that can deal damage and call it good. One focused damage choice like Scorching Ray, Orb of (energy), or Sound Lance, and one AoE like Fireball or Wings of Flurry should be enough, and try to pick different energy types. Defensive spells are also important, Mage Armor and Shield are pretty basic, Mirror Image is one of the best choices for you-missed-me, and Ray Deflection is so good it shouldn't be allowed, and don't forget Wings of Cover. Greater Mirror Image in PH2 is spectacular.

Buffs are also great to have, if there's not many people buffing your party. Bull's Strength in a melee-heavy party will go a long way in the early levels, and Haste is always a good choice. Try not to have more than one spell that does a particular effect. Summon spells become redundant very quickly, and you wouldn't want both Blindness/Deafness and Glitterdust. It's extremely important to design your spell list to be as versatile as possible, and anything left should be filled with necessary spells like (Greater) Dispel Magic, divinations, RP spells like Charm Person, utility spells like Rope Trick, etc.

jumpet
2010-09-02, 09:24 PM
Heighten spell is an absolute must. Take it at 3rd level.

Fax Celestis
2010-09-02, 09:27 PM
Master Spellthief does the same thing Practiced Spellcaster does, it still puts you a level behind on spells/day, spells known, and the highest level of spells you can cast. Sorcerers are already a level behind in highest level spells available, being two levels behind hurts even worse. I would strongly advise against losing even a single level of spellcasting, as will most optimization guides.To be frank, one level in a build like the one I outlined is pretty 'drop in the bucket'-y. Yes, you're going to be casting spells two levels back. As a rayblaster, you don't care.


If cat familiars could become Tibbits, it would stand to reason that lizard familiars could develop into a similar race. Ask your DM about making a mechanically identical variant which turns into a lizard, and appears as a kobold in its humanoid form. Take the Draconic Rite of Passage in Races of the Dragon to get the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) and be a level ahead on your spellcasting. You could possibly even take Dragonwrought from Races of the Dragon and turn into a tiny dragon although it wouldn't have any different stats from a lizard. That would allow you to start out venerable age for +3 to your mental stats but no penalty to your physical stats, and you could use the Loredrake archtype from Dragons of Eberron to get yet another +2 levels of Sorcerer spellcasting ability.
This is far and away more cheesy than I would recommend to anyone. DRoP + Dragonwrought + Loredrake is fine in a high-powered game where people are using early entry tricks to get double-nines Archivist/Wizard casting, but in regular play, it's really overboard.


There are some amazing Sorcerer-only spells in Races of the Dragon, namely Wings of Cover and Wings of Flurry. Your spells known should include a variety of effects which attack each of the three different saving throws. Grease, Web, and Bands of Steel are good Reflex-save spells. Blindness/Deafness, Nauseating Breath, and Ray of Exhaustion are useful Fort-save spells. Color Spray, Glitterdust, and Slow are some of the better Will-save spells. There are also some amazing no-save effects like Ray of Dizziness, Solid Fog, and Ray of Light. Effects which attack a specific stat like Ray of Stupidity and Black Tentacles are also nice to have on hand. A Wall spell is also good to have on hand, but never more than one.Also good are spells that target multiple saves. One of my favorite third level spells is great thunderclap. Creatures in area must Fort or be deafened, Ref or be prone, and Will or be stunned. Legion of Sentinels from PHB-II also makes an amazing area-control spell: any movement through the field that isn't a 5' step provokes many, many attacks. Get a bull-rushing fighter buddy to shove people through it for crazy slashings.

ericgrau
2010-09-02, 09:27 PM
Direct damage is usually better done with wizards because damage is highly level dependent and their casting 1 level higher. There is also no benefit from spontaneous metamagic for direct damage. That's because when you prepare your damage spells and need to select whether or not to apply metamagic, you always select "Duh, yes."

Battlefield control spells however are good even at lower levels and great for sorcerers. Situational meta-magic like heighten, still and extend are where the sorcerer shines and these work well with area debuffs and spells in general during odd situations. In a sense the wizard both benefits the most but also needs planning more, while the sorcerer is always ready and may always select the right spell for the job without worrying about not having it later (or not having it because he used it earlier). But no amount of planning can give him better tools to choose from. In fact, learning more than 1-3 damage spells on a sorcerer would be a tremendous irreversible mistake, because the additional spells are both useless when he can spam a single spell (and a backup of another energy type) and they cut into having other options in his always-ready toolbox.

So if you want a rogue sneak attack sorcerer I'd get a 2nd or maybe a 3rd ray energy type to be on the safe side and then load up on good rogue spells like greater invisibility. Or glitterdust and grease double as both battlefield control and sneak attack triggers. Etc.

JeminiZero
2010-09-02, 09:31 PM
One of the better PrCs for Sorcerers is Mage of the Arcane Order from Complete Arcane. Sorcerers require 1 semi-useless (Cooperative Spell), and 1 relatively useful feat (Arcane Preperation), both also from Complete Arcane. In fact Arcane Preperation can virtually replace rapid Metamagic entirely.

Cadian 9th
2010-09-02, 09:32 PM
Heighten spell is an absolute must. Take it at 3rd level.

Heighten spell is useless for a 3rd level sorcerer. 3rd level sorcerer cannot cast 2nd level spells. :smallbiggrin:

Some good points from the above posters. To be honest I've never bothered with sorcerer since Wizard works so well. :smallbiggrin:

Eldariel
2010-09-02, 09:33 PM
Unless you're trying for a Rogue/Sorcerer, I suggest against losing caster levels. Mage of the Arcane Order [Complete Arcane] has steep entry prerequisites but is a great PrC for covering the spells you can't otherwise access ('cause you didn't learn them). Needs Arcane Preparation [Complete Arcane] as an extra feat but that's all. Sandshaper [Sandstorm] loses one caster level but adds a huge bunch of spells to your Spells Known so it's something to consider too. Archmage is a decent higher-up class but costs you lots of feats so there's a trade-off there. Still, it's a very potent class. Other fine options include Mindbender [Complete Arcane] as a one-level dip to gain Telepathy (works great with the high Charisma and natural-born ability-deal of Sorcerers), Fatespinner [Complete Arcane] and really, all the usual suspects. And Spellwarp Sniper [Complete Scoundrel] is quite nice too, notably awesome with the Sorcerer-specific Wings of Flurry-spell from Races of the Dragon.

If you took Metamagic Specialist, you should consider some metamagic too. The common, generally useful metamagic that doesn't require focus but can be extremely convenient includes:
- Invisible Spell [Cityscape]
- Born of Three Thunders [Complete Arcane]
- Sculpt Spell [Complete Arcane]
- Extend Spell [PHB]
- Split Ray [Complete Arcane]
- Chain Spell [Complete Arcane]
- Repeat Spell [Complete Arcane]
- Quicken Spell [PHB]
- Twin Spell [Complete Arcane]

Other decent ones are mostly overshadowed by these. Also note that the level cost can be prohibitive until very high levels for the +3 and higher ones. Chain Spell really works best with buffs, Dispel Magic-line and such. Repeat Spell and Twin Spell generally want to be used with action-granting spells or, in general, spells enabling other spells. Split Ray is limited but as a Sorcerer, you can pick Rays as your primary offense and it's by far the most efficient damage enhancer there.

Extend Spell goes on buffs (early makes 1 hour/levels last all day, later enables 2-day 1 hour/level and 24 hour spells, and Most Of The Day 10 min/level spells), Sculpt Spell on area control spells and Quicken on anything that happens to work right then and there. Invisible Spell might as well be used on every spell you cast, and Born of Three Thunders is nice on basically any damage-dealing spell, adding a save-or-be-unhappy effect to any such.

Greyfeld
2010-09-02, 09:35 PM
Heighten spell is an absolute must. Take it at 3rd level.

Heighten Spell is useless at level 3 when all I can cast are 1st level spells. But I considered picking it up later.

@Biffoniacus_Furiou, the DM of the game is trying to keep out most homebrew options, and I'm content with the cat variant for this game, so I'm not really interested in trying to get extremely meta-gamey by wheedling my way into draconic feats.

That said, your other suggestions are sound, and I appreciate the points you make. I'll be looking to make my spell list as versatile as possible without stretching myself too thin. Though admittedly, I had a hard time figuring out good 0-level spells to take. Picked up Detect/Read Magic, Mending, Ghost Sound, and a couple other things.

Eldariel
2010-09-02, 09:38 PM
Heighten Spell is useless at level 3 when all I can cast are 1st level spells. But I considered picking it up later.

@Biffoniacus_Furiou, the DM of the game is trying to keep out most homebrew options, and I'm content with the cat variant for this game, so I'm not really interested in trying to get extremely meta-gamey by wheedling my way into draconic feats.

That said, your other suggestions are sound, and I appreciate the points you make. I'll be looking to make my spell list as versatile as possible without stretching myself too thin. Though admittedly, I had a hard time figuring out good 0-level spells to take. Picked up Detect/Read Magic, Mending, Ghost Sound, and a couple other things.

Daze is a good cantrip for the first levels; you can disable an opponent who fails the save for a turn which is quite strong, and being able to do it without spending resources is fairly awesome. I'm also partial for Message as you can just mouth the things you want to say; great for communicating from a hiding place or such, when you lack line of sight and don't want others hearing what you're saying (or when the other party wouldn't normally hear you and yet, you want them to hear everything you say). Thanks to their Cha, Sorcerers go places. So...yeah.

ericgrau
2010-09-02, 09:45 PM
Heightened daze also disables the caster for a round. Sometimes it's worth the action trade, but it'd be far from my first priority. Instead if I realized I'll need so many metamagic feats in the near future that I better grab one at 3rd level, I'd say "Well, it's only a cantrip slot might as well pick up daze too." Assuming heighten was even my first feat. I do agree heighten is great later.

Eldariel
2010-09-02, 09:55 PM
Heightened daze also disables the caster for a round. Sometimes it's worth the action trade, but it'd be far from my first priority. Instead if I realized I'll need so many metamagic feats in the near future that I better grab one at 3rd level, I'd say "Well, it's only a cantrip slot might as well pick up daze too." Assuming heighten was even my first feat. I do agree heighten is great later.

Huh. Yeah, I wasn't suggesting heightening Daze (that's just a bad idea, your level 1 disables are 10000 times better in Color Spray or Sleep), I was just suggesting picking up Daze as a cantrip in case you run out of level 1 slots or don't want to waste them on some randoms; it's generally more productive than shooting with a Crossbow.

Greyfeld
2010-09-02, 09:56 PM
i think that depends on how your crossbow is enchanted :P

Eldariel
2010-09-02, 09:58 PM
i think that depends on how your crossbow is enchanted :P

Considering you're a level 3 Sorcerer, I'm willing to bet you don't have a +1 Splitting Force Collision Quick-Loading Seeking Crossbow handy. :smalltongue:

JeminiZero
2010-09-02, 10:08 PM
Don't forget Versatile Spellcaster (take it instead of Improved Init or something). Sacrifice 2 lower level slots to power a higher level 1. Useful even at level 1 as you can burn your level 0 slots to cast more Colour Sprays. Can even be used to cast metamagicked versions of spells one level higher than your highest level. E.g. sacrifice 2 level 1 slots to cast sculpted Color Spray.

Greyfeld
2010-09-02, 10:08 PM
Considering you're a level 3 Sorcerer, I'm willing to bet you don't have a +1 Splitting Force Collision Quick-Loading Seeking Crossbow handy. :smalltongue:

lol you didn't stipulate the level before

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-09-02, 10:12 PM
You don't need an enchanted crossbow, just a stack of +1 Spell Storing Bolts filled with Maximized Shivering Touch.

I'll agree that Versatile Spellcaster is an amazing feat, it should definitely be at the top of your to-do list.

Mindbender 1 would be fun to have, a cat running around talking to people inside their heads...

Greyfeld
2010-09-02, 10:17 PM
lol to be honest, i had actually considered Mindbender exactly for that reason.

Icewraith
2010-09-02, 10:59 PM
Pick up the feat Item Familiar ASAP and have it be a runestaff. You can then enchant the staff as if you had the craft staff and craft magic arms and armor feats, so having the staff be tiny, usableby some sort of cat, and so on and so forth should be doable with a bit of creativity.

The reason I say this is you simply won't have enough spell slots for the good 1-4th level spells, so pick a few ones that are a bit less spammable like evard's, grater magic weapon, and such to make sure you have room in your spell list for wings of flurry, force orb, ennervation and haste. The cost to add spells to a runestaff is generally cheap enough that you can do it in 1 day of crafting for lower level spells, so you just need 1 scroll of gust of wind to be able to add it to your repertoire 1/day, then use the staff casting to up the number of times per day you cast from the staff when you have more downtime.

Also you can get warning put on your weapon asap for a good chunk of intitiative at half cost, since you have craft magic arms and armor for purposes of the runestaff.

Greyfeld
2010-09-03, 12:07 PM
What do people think of 6 sorc/10 incantatrix/4 fatespinner?

Somebody suggested that build to me, and I looked at Incantatrix and was a little underwhelmed. I understand the power of the PrC, but it just seemed like a lot of those abilities (aside from the extra metamagic, which was nice) were easily replaced by alternative class features, or a couple feats.

Jolly
2010-09-03, 02:38 PM
One of the more complete handbooks I've found is Solo's Stupendously Superior Sorcerer Stratagems (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2180.0). I came for the guide, I stayed for the alliteration.