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View Full Version : [3.5] Warmage Advice (other than "don't")



Thurbane
2010-09-02, 09:28 PM
Hey all,

I’m really keen on playing a Warmage at some point (I know blasting can be done better, but still...). I’m wondering how to shore up his defences and shortcomings, especially at lower levels.

The Warmage has a distinct lack of defensive spells...so I could use Eclectic Learning to pick up essentials like Mirror Image. Also, Eternal Wands don’t require a UMD check or for the spells to be on your list, so they’re another option. What other essential utility/defensive spells do Warmages lack? Fly, Dim Door/Teleport...lack of Detect Magic means maxing out Spellcraft to decipher scrolls, or grabbing an item of Detect Magic.

The MIC has a few items that can help – Eternal Wands, Cloak of Mysterious Conjuration, Raiment of the Four – that let you swap out your own spell slots for spells not on the spell list.

There’s also PrCs that help expand spell list – notably, Sand Shaper and Rainbow Servant. Any others?

Finally – UMD: for a CHA based character, is it worth sinking cross class ranks into it? Or maybe grabbing the Apprentice (Spellcaster) feat to get it as a class skill? I figure using UMD with Runestaves could help with versatility.

Cheers - T

Kalaska'Agathas
2010-09-02, 09:54 PM
You might look here, to the Warmage Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2816.0), for advice.

Also, if you go Rainbow Warmage (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5213.0) you can get full cleric casting to shore you up on the defenses front.

Chambers
2010-09-02, 10:05 PM
Here are some revisions to the Warmage.

T.G. Oskar's Warmage. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131346&highlight=warmage)

PId6's Warmage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8699451).

Dusk Eclipse
2010-09-02, 10:05 PM
the Problem with Rainbow warsnake is that unless you use extreme cheese to make an early entry its main benefit and the reason you are going into a rainbow servant comes at a too high ECL (17)

also there is the fact that while RAW it has 10/10 casting (as per the text) the table indicates otherwise and it is quite difficult to convince some DM

Thurbane I suggest you look at Mage of the Arcane Order, it can shore up your weakness of non-utility spells, I also heavily second to invest in the raiment of the fourth it is a great way to expand spell list (gloves of the starry sky saved my Gestatl sorc)

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-09-02, 10:06 PM
I'd personally prefer adjusting the Rainbow Servant to be connected to Phoenixes (MM2) instead of Couatls. The domains it grants would probably be Good, Fire, and Renewal, and the other benefits could remain unchanged. It works best if you can use early qualification tricks. An Illumian with at least one flaw to get Versatile Spellcaster and Improved Sigil: Krau can go Warmage 1/ Rainbow Servant.

Mage of the Arcane Order in Complete Arcane can give you access to the entire Sorcerer/Wizard spell list. The requirements are a bit steep, and it's a bit cheesy, but it's definitely on the table.

You could go with a Warmage/Wizard/Ultimate Magus build, considering Warmages like having a high Int score anyway. You could just take a single level of Wizard and get Versatile Spellcaster from Races of the Dragon. Any spell you read and make the Spellcraft check to understand will be considered among your Wizard spells known, even if you don't put it into your spellbook, and there's no limit to the level of what spells you can learn. With Versatile Spellcaster you can spend Warmage spell slots to cast any spell you know, so you would get spontaneous access to the Wizard list. Again it's a bit cheesy, but definitely a useful trick.

CockroachTeaParty
2010-09-02, 10:22 PM
You could go with a Warmage/Wizard/Ultimate Magus build, considering Warmages like having a high Int score anyway.

I did this in a Red Hand of Doom game. It was dee-licious.

Mushroom Ninja
2010-09-02, 10:24 PM
Key to playing a powerful warmage is expanding your spell-list. Since you can cast everything on your spell list spontaneously, you become quite strong if you can get good spells on that list. The handbook, which I see some people have already posted, goes into this at greater depth, but, Rainbow Servant and Sand Shaper are some of the more popular PrC options because they add new spells to your list.

Alternatively, you can embrace your blasty roll, grab Arcane Thesis and other metamagic-reducers, and orb folks till they stop moving. This is a weaker alternative to expanding your spell list, and other classes do it better, but you can still be pretty deadly.

Kalaska'Agathas
2010-09-02, 10:25 PM
Stuff, mainly concerning getting spontaneous access to your whole wizard spells known list.

Wait, come again? Can you give a detailed rundown please?

Thurbane
2010-09-02, 10:32 PM
Thanks all - good advice all around. I will take a gander at the handbooks.

...I must admit, the idea of a Warmage/Wizard/Ultimage Magus really appeals to me - I hadn't thought about this before. :smallbiggrin:

Runestar
2010-09-03, 12:57 AM
What you may want to consider is a change in mindset instead. Don't think of the warmage as a spellcaster with a limited spell list. See and play him more as an archer, and suddenly, knowing so few spells doesn't seem like such a bad thing. :smalltongue:

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-09-03, 01:49 AM
Wait, come again? Can you give a detailed rundown please?

Read the feat Versatile Spellcaster in Races of the Dragon: "You can use two spell slots of the same level to cast a spell you know that is one level higher." Now in the PHB on page 179 and also here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#addingSpellstoaWizardsSpellbook), under "Spells Copied from Another’s Spellbook or a Scroll" it details the process that a Wizard goes through to learn and copy a new spell. Once you've read a spell, you make a Spellcraft check to understand it. If successful, you learn that spell and can copy it into your spellbook. If the check fails, you "cannot attempt to learn or copy that spell again until you gain another rank in Spellcraft." If you've read a spell and made the Spellcraft check, it is counted among the spells you can cast when using Versatile Spellcaster, because it is a spell you know.

This also works for an Ultimate Magus build. You're probably best off going Warmage 1/ Wizard 4/ UM 10/ whatever, and if you use Illumian with the Krau sigil and take Practiced Spellcaster: Warmage you can apply 10/10 UM spellcasting to Wizard. At level 15 you'll have 14th level Wizard spellcasting and 8th level Warmage spellcasting, both at caster level 19 due to UM's CL boost. If you want a Warmage-heavy build, you could reverse it and go Warmage 4/ Wizard 1/ UM 10/ whatever as long as you take the feat Arcane Preparation to be able to prepare and cast 2nd level spells. Again an Illumian with Krau and this time Practiced Spellcaster: Wizard you can put 10/10 UM spellcasting into Warmage, and at 15th level you'll have 14th level Warmage and 8th level Wizard spellcasting. You could skip Illumian and with just Practiced Spellcaster your UM 7 spellcasting level will have to go toward your lower class, so you could go Human or Grey Elf and at 15th level have 13th level Warmage and 9th level Wizard spellcasting. That would probably be your best choice for a Warmage-heavy build, since you'd have 5th level utility spells like Teleport and Overland Flight and still be able to get 9th level Warmage spells by level 20.

Thurbane
2010-09-03, 03:41 AM
Can anyone suggest a solid, not-too-cheesy, Illumian Warmage/Wizard/UM build, ECL 12?

Malbordeus
2010-09-03, 04:04 AM
i'd sugest mets magic school focus from the Complete mage, which works nicely with Ultimate magus - the meta magic your using cost less, so eat up lower level spellslots when you sac slots to utilise them. (quicken is particulatly funny, loosing a level 3 slot to quicken a fireball every round..., empower, Fell drain and persist metas are also silly under this kind of build)

possibly reserve feats as you'll have a wedge of elemental spells, it lets you participate without running out of your wizard spell slots.