PDA

View Full Version : [3.5] Attacks of Opportunity with ranged weapon?



Morquard
2010-09-03, 04:56 AM
I know that by default you're not threatening your adjacent or any other squares, when wielding a ranged weapon, so you also can't make a AoO. It's also said an AoO is a melee attack.
I know all that.

There's the Elvencraft Bows (Races of the wild), which can be used as melee weapons too and which explicitly allow you to threaten the adjacent squares, and make AoO, but I'm pretty sure those AoO happens with the melee-version of the weapon.

Well thats still better than no AoO at all, but is there a way that allows you to make AoO with a ranged weapon (I have a far higher attack bonus on range than on melee)? 5 ft range would be ok already, however larger would obviously be alot better. A feat, a spell, a magic item, a PrC, a special weapon?

Eldariel
2010-09-03, 05:07 AM
I know that by default you're not threatening your adjacent or any other squares, when wielding a ranged weapon, so you also can't make a AoO. It's also said an AoO is a melee attack.
I know all that.

There's the Elvencraft Bows (Races of the wild), which can be used as melee weapons too and which explicitly allow you to threaten the adjacent squares, and make AoO, but I'm pretty sure those AoO happens with the melee-version of the weapon.

Well thats still better than no AoO at all, but is there a way that allows you to make AoO with a ranged weapon (I have a far higher attack bonus on range than on melee)? 5 ft range would be ok already, however larger would obviously be alot better. A feat, a spell, a magic item, a PrC, a special weapon?

Ranged Threat-feat [DR350] does just that. Few other ways exist: Arrowmind-spell [SC/CAdv] and Peerless Archer lvl 7 ability [Silver Marches] off the top of my head. There may be others, but can't think of any right off the top of my head.

Ricky S
2010-09-03, 08:55 AM
"Ranged Threat
[General, Fighter]
Base Attack Bonus +6
Combat Reflexes
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot

If a creature within 15’ of you takes an action that provokes an Attack of Opportunity, you may make a single ranged attack against him/her/it at your highest attack bonus. This consumes all of your remaining Attacks of opportunity for the round."

It is a pretty sweet feat and it gives you a 15' AoO range. Far better than the 5' you wanted:smallsmile:

Morquard
2010-09-03, 10:49 AM
Thats not bad. Well I don't have +6 BAB yet, so I can't use that, but I can see if I can plan for it for later.

Hmm, is it possible to add the Arrowmind spell to an item somehow. I know how to make wands, but can it be made into one of those "can use 3 times/day and recharges at dawn" items, or a continious effect (even though that is probably too expensive for me)?
If so, just nudge me in the direction of the right book.

Eldariel
2010-09-03, 10:54 AM
Thats not bad. Well I don't have +6 BAB yet, so I can't use that, but I can see if I can plan for it for later.

Hmm, is it possible to add the Arrowmind spell to an item somehow. I know how to make wands, but can it be made into one of those "can use 3 times/day and recharges at dawn" items, or a continious effect (even though that is probably too expensive for me)?
If so, just nudge me in the direction of the right book.

Custom Magic Items are squarely DM-territory so I nudge you to that generic direction. Guidelines for cost exist, but that's irrelevant as it's up to DM whether such item can exist and how much it'd cost.

2xMachina
2010-09-03, 11:04 AM
Thats not bad. Well I don't have +6 BAB yet, so I can't use that, but I can see if I can plan for it for later.

Hmm, is it possible to add the Arrowmind spell to an item somehow. I know how to make wands, but can it be made into one of those "can use 3 times/day and recharges at dawn" items, or a continious effect (even though that is probably too expensive for me)?
If so, just nudge me in the direction of the right book.

Eternal wands (MIC) are wands with 2/day.
Lvl 1 spell is 820 gp.

Pop wand chamber in the bow, and cast when needed.

Jack Zander
2010-09-03, 11:17 AM
I know its not what you had in mind, but if you have improved unarmed strike you can make AoOs with your legs while wielding a bow.

Morquard
2010-09-03, 11:19 AM
Yeah, I would have to talk to the DM about it, but it would be good to have something to tell him "See here, the guideline for an item like this says it costs X gold, so its well within our limit. PLEEEEAAASE" :)
Or that I see its so far outside the limit that I shouldn't even ask in the first place.
Oh I think I actually found it right in the SRD... that was the last place I expected it ;)
First level wizard spell, 1 min/level, should be 4000 gp for that effect. Sounds about right?

The cheapest and easiest way is probably to make it a wand and build a wand-chamber into the bow then use UMD to activate it when needed for 1 minute (should be enough for a fight).

Spell is an immediate action, does that mean I can activate it when someone passes through my threatened area and do an AoO in the same round?

Last Laugh
2010-09-03, 11:59 AM
Eternal wands (MIC) are wands with 2/day.
Lvl 1 spell is 820 gp.

Pop wand chamber in the bow, and cast when needed.

I really like this options instead of a regular wand. If you are running out of /day uses you can always just buy another one. (and you could get 4 of them for 4000 gold, which is probably more uses than you need)




Activation:Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so
casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that
doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity. (If the spell being cast,
however, has a longer casting time than 1 action, it takes that
long to cast the spell from a wand.)
To answer the immediate action question

Keld Denar
2010-09-03, 12:07 PM
Really, if you look at average campaign length, 50 charges will often be enough to last you through the whole game, or at least 4-5 levels, after which you'll definitely have enough jink to buy another one. A lot of gamers have issues with using consumables. For the price of 2 eternal wands (4 encounters per day), you could have like, 120 or so uses of Arrow Mind. IF you bump that up to 5-6 encounters per day, you are fronting about 180 charges worth of regular wands.

Thats a LOT of charges...


To answer the immediate action question
Rules Compendium errata'd this. The action to activate a Spell Trigger item (wand) is now the casting time of the spell within the wand. So you CAN use swift and immediate wands, provided you have them in hand (or in your Wand Chamber).

Tyndmyr
2010-09-03, 12:09 PM
Eternal wands are best used in situations where it's something you use EVERY day. Infrequent stuff is better served by normal wands. Mixing an eternal and a regular wand for spells used very frequently is also often a good option.

Fax Celestis
2010-09-03, 12:54 PM
Isn't there a bow in RotW that has blades on the end that lets you stab people nearby?

DragoonWraith
2010-09-03, 12:59 PM
Heh, Fax, the OP mentioned that in the OP. But it's assumed that you make the attack with the melee function of the weapon (though I don't think the rules actually require this, merely assume it since you provoke yourself if you attack something that close with a ranged weapon), so it's not really desired.

That Ranged Threat feat looks ridiculously overpriced. The pre-reqs are very heavy (though all of them make sense and would probably be things you want anyway, so... that can probably slide. They're not wasted feats), and consuming all of your AoOs for the round is just utterly unnecessary.

Personally, I'd have done it as a single AoO as normal, and requiring only Point-Blank Shot and Precise Shot. You'll probably want Combat Reflexes but I'd leave that up to the player, and I see no need for the BAB requirement.

Duke of URL
2010-09-03, 01:02 PM
I know its not what you had in mind, but if you have improved unarmed strike you can make AoOs with your legs while wielding a bow.

You could do it with one of your hands, too. You can remove one hand from a 2-handed weapon to perform some other action, you only need two hands on the weapon when you're actually using it.


Isn't there a bow in RotW that has blades on the end that lets you stab people nearby?

According to Crystal Keep (as I don't have books handy), there is an Elvencraft option (300 gp) that can be applied to longbows and shortbows, making them usable either as a bow or as a quarterstaff or club, respectively.

Since you'd be attacking as with a melee weapon, it would also get around the concern above about provoking AoOs.

Morquard
2010-09-03, 01:10 PM
A normal wand will most likely be enough for me, I know that. However my UMD skill isn't that high as to use wands without failure, i have about 50% chance to fail at the moment.
But then again, this is more of a gimmick, so if it doesn't work sometimes i'll survive, but thats the reason I was looking into x/day or continious use items, as they don't have that problem.

Just a question about making these x/day items and the prices.
Its a 1st level spell, so "Spell Level x Caster Level" is 1.
Continious effect: 4000 gp
unlimited times: 2000 gp (standard action to activate it if its a ring for example, but part of the attack action if its a property of the bow)
2/day charges: 800 gp (activate same as above)

Did I understand how that works correctly?
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm



Isn't there a bow in RotW that has blades on the end that lets you stab people nearby?
There's the Swordbow (not sure its in RotW) which magically transforms itself between a +1 longsword and +1 longbow or something as a free action. And there's the Elvencraft Bow, which is made out of heavier material and basicly allows you to hit people over the head with the bow (either as club or quaterstaff), without penalty for improvised weapons.
However by default an AoO is a melee attack. Its not just that you don't threaten with a ranged weapon, it specifically states in the PHB that a AoO is melee. So you need something that allows you to make it ranged.
I'm playing a low-str high-dex race, I have -2 str and +7 dex, so it is a huge difference for me if I hit people with my bow or shoot them with it ;)


That Ranged Threat feat looks ridiculously overpriced.
I don't know about that, the 15 ft range alone probably merits the high prereqs. I'm not sure it needs to use up all AoO though. So yeah, a bit overpriced maybe but not too ridiculously

Person_Man
2010-09-03, 01:19 PM
It's not that difficult to get 20 to 40 ft of reach (or more). Tactically, there's not much of a reason you would use ranged attacks AND need to be able to make AoO with them. In most cases you're either standing far enough away from your enemies that you wouldn't need to make AoO, or you'd be better served by just using a reach weapon.