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DragonsAion
2010-09-03, 04:21 PM
Has anyone played a summoner from the APG yet? What are your thoughts and feelings on it? Has anyone done a build for them?


looking over the spell list one trick I want to try is casting one of the pit spells and using levitate to center myself over the pit so no one get reach me with a melee weapon. However, I would need to watch out for casters with dispel magic.

Thefurmonger
2010-09-03, 07:13 PM
The only issue I have with it is that your summon SLA cant be used while you have your main pet out.

Past that it looks like a hoot and I will be doing one in our next campaign

BobVosh
2010-09-03, 11:51 PM
I sorta enjoyed it. In beta it was fun, after you choose between your pet or a summon...it bored me. The pet is just better than any summon. So once again it was no longer a summoner in my eyes, but a pet with (in my case) a gnome companion.

FelixG
2010-09-04, 04:55 AM
The class looks like a whole lot of fun and i cant wait to try it out in a campaign.

I really love the evolution system it has behind it.

Paul H
2010-09-04, 07:30 PM
Hi

Wasn't too fussed on Summoners, until my friend sent me this link:

http://paizo.com/image/product/catalog/MEO/MEO1039_500.jpeg

Now, having seen that, I've got the bones together for a Summoner in the PFS campaign, based around that mini. (And yes, you can have that evolution at FIRST LEVEL)! :)

Female Human Summoner

Str 14 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 16
HP 14
AC 15
Saves F 2 R 2 W 2
CMB 2 CMD 14
Feats: Toughness, SF Conjuration

Spells:
0) Detect Magic, Acid Splash, Guidance, Light
1) Grease, Mage Armour

'Dragon' Evolution (3 pts)

Med Serpentine
Free: Bite, Climb, Reach (bite), tail, tail slap
1 pt: Imp Nat Armour (+2)
2 Pts: Wings

Str 12 Dex 16 Con 13 Int 7 Wis 10 Cha 11
BAB +1
HP 9
AC 17 (Dex +3, Nat +4)
Spd: 20', Climb 20', Fly (Good) 20'
Saves: F 1 R 5 W 2
Feat: Toughness
Attacks: Bite +2 (Dam D6+1) Tail Slap +2 (D6+1)
Reach: 10' (bite), 5' (Tail Slap)

Yes - Halfling would have been better build, but doesn't fit the mini

Hope that helped
Paul H

Powerfamiliar
2010-09-04, 07:53 PM
I sorta enjoyed it. In beta it was fun, after you choose between your pet or a summon...it bored me. The pet is just better than any summon. So once again it was no longer a summoner in my eyes, but a pet with (in my case) a gnome companion.

I believe only the SM SLA is affected by that rule, not the spell.

Paul H
2010-09-04, 08:15 PM
Hi

The previous poster is correct - it's only your SLA summons (that last 1 min/CL) that are affected. Normal summons from spells are OK.

Thanks
Paul H

DragonsAion
2010-09-08, 03:32 PM
Feat wise I see:

SF: Conjuration
augment summoning
arcane strike
Greater SF: Conjuration
arcane blast
arcane shield.


not sure about the rest.

Akal Saris
2010-09-08, 07:37 PM
I was very excited about the class until its final iteration, then I ended up playing a druid instead because I hated the many stupid limitations on the summoner. Limitations like having the eidolon unsummon when you go unconscious, or only having a single summon active from your SLA, or not being able to use your SLA when your eidolon is out. I typically play in the Organized Play games, so I don't have the option of house-ruling summoners either.

Starbuck_II
2010-09-08, 07:47 PM
I was very excited about the class until its final iteration, then I ended up playing a druid instead because I hated the many stupid limitations on the summoner. Limitations like having the eidolon unsummon when you go unconscious, or only having a single summon active from your SLA, or not being able to use your SLA when your eidolon is out. I typically play in the Organized Play games, so I don't have the option of house-ruling summoners either.

Even worse both you and ediolon have a shining rune in forehead letting people realize your linked. So enemies are likely to use sleep/deep slumber if they have know (arcana).

DragonsAion
2010-09-08, 08:40 PM
you can hide the rune and I don't think they want you to single handedly beat every mob in the game. your there to party with a team not bring your own army.

Akal Saris
2010-09-08, 08:54 PM
Right. If you wanted to actually play a character who could effectively summon an army of creatures to single-handedly win combats then you would play a sorcerer, druid, wizard, cleric, or oracle. Allowing the summoner to excel at his own tiny niche would be silly :smalltongue:

arguskos
2010-09-08, 08:55 PM
you can hide the rune and I don't think they want you to single handedly beat every mob in the game. your there to party with a team not bring your own army.
Given that you can bring an army with no effort with a Wizard, Sorcerer, Druid, or Cleric, what's the issue letting the SUMMONER summon, again? :smallsigh:

Really, the final version is shameful. I wish I'd saved the pre-nerf Beta version of the PF summoner, since I'd just use that instead.

Greymane
2010-09-09, 03:34 AM
Given that you can bring an army with no effort with a Wizard, Sorcerer, Druid, or Cleric, what's the issue letting the SUMMONER summon, again? :smallsigh:

Really, the final version is shameful. I wish I'd saved the pre-nerf Beta version of the PF summoner, since I'd just use that instead.

Does anyone know if the beta one is still around? My google-fu has failed me.

BobVosh
2010-09-09, 03:41 AM
I don't know. I'm glad I kept my copy. I am going to think about what I can do to make it work.

Probably cut out the eidilon all together...not really sure why they have a pet.

Kurald Galain
2010-09-09, 04:30 AM
Really, the final version is shameful.
Yeah, I had the same impression. I downloaded the beta document, liked the class, and made a summoner character that was pretty cool. Then somebody told me of the errata, and it turns out this removed everything that made him cool in the first place.

So I decided to do a sorcerer instead.

BobVosh
2010-09-09, 04:43 AM
Yeah, I had the same impression. I downloaded the beta document, liked the class, and made a summoner character that was pretty cool. Then somebody told me of the errata, and it turns out this removed everything that made him cool in the first place.

So I decided to do a sorcerer instead.

Similiar story for me, but I went rage prophet. Its actually a lot of fun.

Dark_Juggernaut
2010-09-25, 04:54 PM
Is using summon monster spells as a SLA that big a deal? You can't even apply metamagic to it. Granted you can use some feats 3x a day to empower or quicken them but ultimately things like infuse summons are where it's at...

What else in the beta made them so great?

Shhalahr Windrider
2010-09-25, 05:03 PM
I believe only the SM SLA is affected by that rule, not the spell.
Yeah, too bad they get half-assed spellcasting progression. Still gotta use the SLA for Summon VII, VIII, and IX.

DarthCyberWolf
2010-09-25, 06:16 PM
Is using summon monster spells as a SLA that big a deal? You can't even apply metamagic to it. Granted you can use some feats 3x a day to empower or quicken them but ultimately things like infuse summons are where it's at...

What else in the beta made them so great?

The Summon Monster SLA lasted a minute per CL instead a round per. It also only took a standard action to cast and the monsters got to act as soon as they came out.

Dark_Juggernaut
2010-09-25, 06:17 PM
Yeah, too bad they get half-assed spellcasting progression. Still gotta use the SLA for Summon VII, VIII, and IX.

You get higher summon monsters than their spell level implies if you read their actual progression:
1:I
2:II
3:IV
4:V
5:VII
6:IX

Shhalahr Windrider
2010-09-25, 06:37 PM
You get higher summon monsters than their spell level implies if you read their actual progression:
1:I
2:II
3:IV
4:V
5:VII
6:IX

Ah, well, there’s that. :smallredface:

Never got around to reading the spell list, since I didn’t care for anything else up to that point.

Rixx
2010-09-25, 06:41 PM
The APG also has a spell that summons your eidolon, as if it were a summon monster.

I don't get why getting seven or eight castings of the highest summon spell that can be cast at your level for free on top of the summoner's normal spells makes the summoner a worse summoner than a wizard, cleric, or druid.

Dark_Juggernaut
2010-09-25, 06:54 PM
The APG also has a spell that summons your eidolon, as if it were a summon monster.

I'm looking for that right now, because I would LOVE to have it gain the benefits of augment summoning and imbue summoning!

Edit: This also means you can use your SLA and your Eidolon at the same time. The SLA benefits from augment summoning to, but not the incredible Imbue Summoning metamagic.

PinkysBrain
2010-09-25, 09:17 PM
The APG also has a spell that summons your eidolon, as if it were a summon monster.
A full round casting spell ... so you lose an entire round (more with surprise round) of your eidolon and your casting, you can get interrupted etc.

Unless you can afford a lesser metamagic rod of quicken spell it's generally just not worth it to use that spell to get your eidolon in combat, unless you can prepare just before a fight.

Otherwise if you are running around with a potential encounter after any corner you want your Eidolon out before combat begins.

Dark_Juggernaut
2010-09-25, 11:41 PM
True, it's more time efficient to wait until you can cast 3rd level spells so you can bring out your Eidolon with an extra spell already on it. That spell can be Enlarge Person, Grater Magic Fang, Mage Armor, Shield, Haste, Bull's Strength, Greater Invisibility, Heroism...the list goes on. Some of these spells take a full action to cast.

But more importantly this allows a summoners Eidolon to benefit from both Augment Summons and Summoners Call. That's 6 Str, 6 Con, and 2 Dex you can pile on top of everything else. Without the spell you wouldn't have access to that at all.

Late game this spell can be quickened as well. If you're allowed 3.5 content you can use a feat or two to make it a quickened/imbued spell to.

There's also a fair amount of description not included in the Summon Eidolon spell, to include if it can attack the round you summon it and if you can summon it occupying another creatures square ect.

The spell also lets you get your Eidolon back if it's been dismissed or banished without spending 10 rounds to do it.

Honestly, the spell was introduced in this thread as a way to use your Eidolon in conjunction with the SLA, which I reiterate, is pretty lame without meta magic in the first place.

PinkysBrain
2010-09-26, 03:29 AM
The bonuses from Augment Summoning, Summoner's Call and Belts of Giant strength are all enhancement bonuses ... so they won't stack.

Using the spell before you can quicken it only makes tactical sense when you can prepare for an upcoming fight ... otherwise you want your Eidolon out to be able to handle danger immediately and that means summoning it as normal and not via the spell.

The spell might be designed to let you use it together with the summon SLA, but there are a lot of things in PF designed to do something which fail spectacularly ... like the Vital Strike feat chain.

Susano-wo
2010-09-26, 03:44 AM
I think it odd that anyone would want to try to use the summoner without the Eidolon...but I guess what attracts me to the class is that you can't do a summoner that summons anything really badassed by your level with normal summon spells.
This way, you can do some FFX style summoning, which just seems cool (don't know if they nerfed it too much or not, though...)