A Crew Member's Lament [Or: How to Treat Fast Food Workers Right] [Archive]

Lord_Gareth

2010-09-03, 04:21 PM

For all future reference, this post/thread is a sort of extended steam-venting rant whose primary purpose, first and foremost, is to help me feel a little better by talking to someone about this crap. That being said, I apologize in advance if I come off as caustic or downright rude, but I do hope the advice is sound; taking it may make your local fast food service crews feel much better about serving you.

So: the next time you're at a fast food joint, especially in Kansas, please heed the following:

Read the Damn Menu: And do so beyond looking at exactly one of the prices beneath the yummy-looking picture. I swear to you, 80% of all customer questions could be solved by forty-five seconds of looking at the damn menu. Do we have the Pick 5? Look at the menu. What are your shake flavors? They're on the freaking menu. How much is the sandwich by itself? For the love of all that is holy, the menu has it! This is especially aggravating in the drive through, since the menu is DOUBLE SIZED and RIGHT IN FREAKING FRONT OF YOU. Honestly. Stop the madness.

Mention Modifications ASAP: Please do this. The kitchen's job is to get you your food as fast as possible, while it's still hot. If you wait until the middle or the end of your order to say that you want extra onions or chopped liver or tentacles or what-the-hell-ever, we have to make a whole new item, thus potentially wasting product, clogging up the line, and delaying our service to other paying customers. We don't mind modifying your food. Seriously, we don't. It's not a big deal. But we hate wasting food, especially large, expensive items that don't sell often.

Pay Attention: Do you have any idea whatsoever how frustrating it is for the following to happen in, say, the drive through: "Alrighty, that total will be 12.64 at the window please." "No, that's all I want." Now try having to repeat that five or six times in one order, and then the driver gets to the window all angry at you because he couldn't listen closely enough to realize that you were listing off his freaking price. This extends to other things too. Look at your receipt, try to remember your order number at places that give you one (it helps get your food to you while it's still hot) and, above all, if you catch a mistake, try not to get mad about it straight away. If we're being ass-monkeys about it, by all means, rip us three or four new ones. But, surprisingly, most of us actually wanna help you out. We've been you before. But it's hard to feel sympathetic when we're trying to explain, say, how the combo is broken down on the receipt ("The computer discounts the sandwich price so that the sandwich, fry, and drink together match the menu price) and you're screaming that you can't believe we double-charged you like that and then you storm out and disturb the other customers.

Tell Us When Something is Wrong: So that we can correct it. Dirty restroom? Spill? Out of sauce in the pump? Lizard in your fries? Tell us. Again, not only do most of us actually want to help you, it helps us improve our service, comply with health code, and keep our customers (including you) happy. If all you do is complain to your friends that the sauce is out, how the hell do you expect to get sauce?

Engage in Appropriate Conversation: Namely, while we're working is not the time to try and convert us to your political party or religion. Seriously. This is bad as hell in Kansas, especially. We don't want your church tracts. We don't want your campaign buttons. We don't need to know that Science can PROVE THE BIBLE while we're on duty. If we're clocked out or wandering the streets or whatever, fine, great. Tell us about your Congressman or which celebrities have recently joined your cult. But when the tag and the hat are on, leave it at home, people.

Thank you for listening.

- Gareth

Froogleyboy

2010-09-03, 04:35 PM

Amen, Brother!
That is all.

Keld Denar

2010-09-03, 04:37 PM

I loled...

Oh, and can I get double tentacles on that, if its not too late?

Adumbration

2010-09-03, 04:40 PM

But I like lizards with my fries!

Lord_Gareth

2010-09-03, 04:47 PM

Don't worry folks, I've got another one coming up in the next week or so. I'm also a cashier at Wal-Mart. If you think fast food gets BS, cashiers have it so much freaking worse.

Keld Denar

2010-09-03, 05:26 PM

Wal-Mart

Caution: May cause SAN loss. (http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/)

Mystic Muse

2010-09-03, 05:27 PM

I always try to do all of those. Especially the part about telling people when something is wrong. I also always try to be polite when doing so.

Only once or twice in my 17 year life have I asked them to redo an order because it was my fault and each time I've felt horrible for doing so. I can't eat burgers that aren't mostly plain though.:smallfrown:

Erloas

2010-09-03, 06:41 PM

Haven't you yet realized that those sorts of customer service jobs designed to teach teenagers humility and help them appreciate the other jobs they get after that?
When was the last time you meet someone working at fast food saying they've found their calling in life and its what they want to spend the rest of their life doing.

Shas aia Toriia

2010-09-03, 06:47 PM

To be fair, as long as you have 2 of the 3 following things, working part time at a fast food spot or similar location is actually decent: good co-workers, good management, good benefits.

In this, benefits could mean that you get all the free food you want or a 90% employee discount, or something similar, while I think the co-workers and management are fairly self-explanatory.

Zeb The Troll

2010-09-04, 01:16 AM

Read the Damn Menu: Sometimes the menu is not organized in such a fashion as to make it easy to find what I'm looking for. Sometimes (too often) the menu is incomplete or incorrect1. Also, especially in the drive through, it's often easier and faster for me to ask you a question that you should know the answer to than it is for me to spend two or three minutes trying to find the answer myself, thus holding up the line of cars behind me, so I'll look for 20 seconds and if I can't find it, I'll just ask.

Mention Modifications ASAP: Are you honestly telling me that you have people cooking my order before you've read it back to me and made sure you've actually gotten it right?

Pay Attention: Do you have any idea whatsoever how frustrating it is for the following to happen in, say, the drive through: "Alrighty, that total will be 12.64 at the window please." "No, that's all I want." Do you have any idea how hard it is to understand/hear anyone through that squawk box/in a busy restaurant? Do us a favor. Speak up and enunciate.

But, surprisingly, most of us actually wanna help you out. We've been you before.And I've been you before. My experience differs. Most fast food employees would rather you just go away because it doesn't matter to their paycheck whether they have a hundred customers or two so long as they get to stay their eight hours/go home early, whichever is their preference that night. But you're right, being a tool about it isn't going to make it better for you.

Tell Us When Something is Wrong: So that we can correct it. Dirty restroom? Spill? Out of sauce in the pump? Lizard in your fries? Tell us.Why aren't you policing the store at regular intervals to prevent this in the first place? Okay, sometimes things happen that need to be addressed before the interval comes up, the spill for instance, but a dirty restroom/empty bins/sauce pumps should have been checked and handled well before it got to the point of being something I'd report to the manager.

Engage in Appropriate Conversation:Actually, this goes doubly from the people behind you in line. Spout your order, pay, and get out of the way so I can do the same, thank you very much.

It should be noted that this is intended as a generic "try to see it from my point of view since we're ranting" response and not a direct jibe at Lord Gareth or anyone in particular.

1This is especially true at the drive through. If your full menu isn't available after 11PM at a 24 hour drive through, why doesn't your menu say that somewhere!? Which leads to another rant - Why can I order a $6 hamburger but not a $2 hamburger? Did you turn off the $2 hamburger grill at 11PM? (This may or may not relate to a recent experience at a certain fast food chain.)

Lord_Gareth

2010-09-04, 01:30 AM

Sometimes the menu is not organized in such a fashion as to make it easy to find what I'm looking for. Sometimes (too often) the menu is incomplete or incorrect1. Also, especially in the drive through, it's often easier and faster for me to ask you a question that you should know the answer to than it is for me to spend two or three minutes trying to find the answer myself, thus holding up the line of cars behind me, so I'll look for 20 seconds and if I can't find it, I'll just ask.

This may simply be a function of my work-place, but our menu's pretty self-explanatory. The only real flaw is the kids' meals, which hide beneath our salads in shame at how much of a rip-off they are. Our toys suck. They really do.

Are you honestly telling me that you have people cooking my order before you've read it back to me and made sure you've actually gotten it right?

Yes, especially during rushes. If it hits the screen, it's being sliced and made. There's usually a cushion of orders ahead of you that gives some breathing room on mods, but there's nothing quite like making a whole sandwich only to hear the dreaded words, "And leave the cheese off it, will you?". We have to make an entirely new sandwich now. GAH!

Do you have any idea how hard it is to understand/hear anyone through that squawk box/in a busy restaurant? Do us a favor. Speak up and enunciate.

...You have to know me for this one. Trust me, those are not my problems. The Kansan wind, on the other hand, is a major problem. If you ever want to hear what a banshee in D&D is supposed to sound like, listen to the wind through a Kansas drive through.

And I've been you before. My experience differs. Most fast food employees would rather you just go away because it doesn't matter to their paycheck whether they have a hundred customers or two so long as they get to stay their eight hours/go home early, whichever is their preference that night. But you're right, being a tool about it isn't going to make it better for you.

...My crew rocks?

Why aren't you policing the store at regular intervals to prevent this in the first place? Okay, sometimes things happen that need to be addressed before the interval comes up, the spill for instance, but a dirty restroom/empty bins/sauce pumps should have been checked and handled well before it got to the point of being something I'd report to the manager.

Things can get crazy during the rushes, and those are the times we need to know so we can grab someone (probably headset, since they have freedom of movement) to take care of the spill/blood all over the toilet/lack of sauce/et cetera. However, a lot of folks simply say nothing, which drives me insane. One guy left fresh blood all over the only stall in the men's room! SERIOUSLY, WHAT THE HELL?

Actually, this goes doubly from the people behind you in line. Spout your order, pay, and get out of the way so I can do the same, thank you very much.

Also depends on if you're in a rush or not, but generally true.

1This is especially true at the drive through. If your full menu isn't available after 11PM at a 24 hour drive through, why doesn't your menu say that somewhere!? Which leads to another rant - Why can I order a $6 hamburger but not a $2 hamburger? Did you turn off the $2 hamburger grill at 11PM? (This may or may not relate to a recent experience at a certain fast food chain.)

...What place DOES that?

Zeb The Troll

2010-09-04, 01:43 AM

...What place DOES that?It may or may not have happened at an establishment that employs a clown who's name rhymes with Donald.

See, I work midnight shift so all night drive-thrus are bonus. I went to a particular McDonald's that was on my route to work and ordered my typical McDouble and a medium Coke, no ice as I have done there for years. They had recently gone to the 24 hour drive-thru model, however, and this day I was informed that the Dollar Menu was not available after 11PM and that, if I wanted a burger, I would have to order one of their premium burgers. I didn't stay long enough to find out if they meant "any non-Dollar Menu burger" like a Big Mac or Quarter Pounder of if they actually meant I had to order one of their new Third Pound Angus burgers. I went to Burger King across the street where the full menu was still available.

Lord_Gareth

2010-09-04, 01:44 AM

Mystic Muse

2010-09-04, 01:45 AM

Death to McDonalds! Down with the clown!I'm not a fan of their food personally. It tastes cheap and greasy to me.

tcrudisi

2010-09-04, 01:50 AM

I used to work in a chicken fast food restaurant. It's a stand-alone, so it's not a chain (so please do not assume that I'm talking about one you've been to before. Unless you've been to Marion, NC, you've not).

Sometimes the menu is not organized in such a fashion as to make it easy to find what I'm looking for. Sometimes (too often) the menu is incomplete or incorrect1. Also, especially in the drive through, it's often easier and faster for me to ask you a question that you should know the answer to than it is for me to spend two or three minutes trying to find the answer myself, thus holding up the line of cars behind me, so I'll look for 20 seconds and if I can't find it, I'll just ask.

This one really depends on the time of day. If it's during a rush, you've got a couple of minutes to study the menu, at which point there's no real reason for you not to know what you want to order. Many people just wait until they are at the front of the line before looking to see what they want to order. During a rush, that's so frustrating.

Are you honestly telling me that you have people cooking my order before you've read it back to me and made sure you've actually gotten it right?

Yeah, we were able to do this much of the time. Not always, mind you, but enough that it would be frustrating if the customer didn't inform the cashier quickly enough.

Do you have any idea how hard it is to understand/hear anyone through that squawk box/in a busy restaurant? Do us a favor. Speak up and enunciate.

We didn't have one of those, so I have no personal experience opinion on it.

And I've been you before. My experience differs. Most fast food employees would rather you just go away because it doesn't matter to their paycheck whether they have a hundred customers or two so long as they get to stay their eight hours/go home early, whichever is their preference that night. But you're right, being a tool about it isn't going to make it better for you.

Now this is the big one for me; the reason why I have actually bothered to reply. Basically, at the store I worked at, we really enjoyed our jobs. Yeah, we even had a couple of people who had been there 10+ years. It was rare to get job openings because unless someone left for college, chances are they weren't leaving. I'm not saying it's a great job, only that for fast food it was amazing.

Now, because we enjoyed working together, we were happy. And if I learned anything from psychology, it is human nature to smile when you see someone else smile. Yes, happiness can spread and we saw it in the store. We wanted the customers to be happy and we would try our best to make sure that happened.

Why aren't you policing the store at regular intervals to prevent this in the first place? Okay, sometimes things happen that need to be addressed before the interval comes up, the spill for instance, but a dirty restroom/empty bins/sauce pumps should have been checked and handled well before it got to the point of being something I'd report to the manager.

Well, we were a small and local fast food restaurant. We certainly can't afford to have an extra person there to check on these things. During a rush, we can't always check on it. During these times we have to rely on our customers.

Zeb The Troll

2010-09-04, 02:09 AM

This one really depends on the time of day. If it's during a rush, you've got a couple of minutes to study the menu, at which point there's no real reason for you not to know what you want to order. Many people just wait until they are at the front of the line before looking to see what they want to order. During a rush, that's so frustrating.Yes, this is mostly true. My point was, mostly, that you're (possibly) getting fired up about something without knowing all of the facts. Perhaps the person was surprised by how fast the line was moving. Perhaps they're not waiting until the last minute, but are in fact simply undecisive, but saw a long line and wanted to get in it and hope they made a decision by the time they got to the register. Maybe (this happens to me a lot) they spent the entire time in line looking at the menu and couldn't actually find where the drinks are listed and so had to ask you.

Rather than ranting or getting upset, just answer the question and take their order.

Yeah, we were able to do this much of the time. Not always, mind you, but enough that it would be frustrating if the customer didn't inform the cashier quickly enough.This is Bad PracticeTM. Judging by the rants, you already know why. Not only because I may (and have every right to) change my mind or forget that my nephew is allergic to mayonnaise, but also because you're assuming that you got my order right in the first place. This is not always so. There's a reason you're supposed to read it back before putting it in.

We didn't have one of those, so I have no personal experience opinion on it.I've had the same experience inside a busy restaurant as at the drive-thru. That's why I listed it that way. (In fairness, it would help everyone if the customer would speak up and enunciate as well.)

Now this is the big one for me; the reason why I have actually bothered to reply. Basically, at the store I worked at, we really enjoyed our jobs. Yeah, we even had a couple of people who had been there 10+ years. It was rare to get job openings because unless someone left for college, chances are they weren't leaving. I'm not saying it's a great job, only that for fast food it was amazing.It happens, I won't deny it. But I think a blanket declaration that "most fast food workers want to help you" is not actually the case.

Now, because we enjoyed working together, we were happy. And if I learned anything from psychology, it is human nature to smile when you see someone else smile. Yes, happiness can spread and we saw it in the store. We wanted the customers to be happy and we would try our best to make sure that happened. True enough. I try to make a point of smiling as a customer too. And not just at food places. It tends to put the employee in a better frame of mind and makes them more willing to put forth a little more effort to make sure you get treated right.

Well, we were a small and local fast food restaurant. We certainly can't afford to have an extra person there to check on these things. During a rush, we can't always check on it. During these times we have to rely on our customers.Here I will disagree. Especially during a rush, the manager should be sending out scouts to make absolutely sure that nothing needs to be reported by the customer. As a manager, if I get a complaint about something like an empty ketchup bin/pump then I've not done my job to the best of my ability. If I'm going to have to send someone out there anyway, it might as well be before there's a problem rather than after.

Lord_Gareth

2010-09-04, 02:13 AM

This is Bad PracticeTM. Judging by the rants, you already know why. Not only because I may (and have every right to) change my mind or forget that my nephew is allergic to mayonnaise, but also because you're assuming that you got my order right in the first place. This is not always so. There's a reason you're supposed to read it back before putting it in.

From that perspective it is, in fact, a bad idea. However, if we don't run it our way, nothing gets made with any mockery of speed, let alone on time.

Zeb The Troll

2010-09-04, 02:32 AM

From that perspective it is, in fact, a bad idea. However, if we don't run it our way, nothing gets made with any mockery of speed, let alone on time.Ah, but see, then that means your management has already done a risk assessment and decided that the risk of messing up a few orders is outweighed by the reward of getting most orders out faster. This isn't the customer's fault and you shouldn't hold it against them that you're trying to gain a few seconds for them by trying to jump the gun. :smallcool:

arguskos

2010-09-04, 02:37 AM

It may or may not have happened at an establishment that employs a clown who's name rhymes with Donald.

See, I work midnight shift so all night drive-thrus are bonus. I went to a particular McDonald's that was on my route to work and ordered my typical McDouble and a medium Coke, no ice as I have done there for years. They had recently gone to the 24 hour drive-thru model, however, and this day I was informed that the Dollar Menu was not available after 11PM and that, if I wanted a burger, I would have to order one of their premium burgers. I didn't stay long enough to find out if they meant "any non-Dollar Menu burger" like a Big Mac or Quarter Pounder of if they actually meant I had to order one of their new Third Pound Angus burgers. I went to Burger King across the street where the full menu was still available.
I am knowledgeable about McDonalds, so trust me when I tell you that this is not only NOT standard policy but it's a big damn deal. Call their help line and bitch. It WILL help change things. Perhaps not rapidly, but it will.

I had this experience as well recently, made some inquiries, and found that yeah, they're not really supposed to say stuff like that. The Dollar Menu isn't supposed to be time-limited like that.

Note: my advice is from about two weeks ago, so it may have changed. I sincerely doubt it though.

MartytheBioGuy

2010-09-04, 02:38 AM

skywalker

2010-09-04, 03:14 AM

I am knowledgeable about McDonalds, so trust me when I tell you that this is not only NOT standard policy but it's a big damn deal. Call their help line and bitch. It WILL help change things. Perhaps not rapidly, but it will.

I had this experience as well recently, made some inquiries, and found that yeah, they're not really supposed to say stuff like that. The Dollar Menu isn't supposed to be time-limited like that.

That's funny, cuz a lot of my local McDonald's restaurants do this.

About the only one I can think of that doesn't is the one local to campus, and that one wouldn't make much money after 11 if they didn't keep the full menu.

But generally, Zeb, it's that you're a captive market. You have limited options, and they're banking on the fact that late at night, you won't be willing to find an alternative. Also, it may only be worth it to them if everyone spends at least a certain amount of money. Most of the McDonald's I frequent, tho, don't have Burger Kings across the street, and those that do, don't have 24 hour Burger Kings across the street. That was poor planning on the part of that restaurant.

As far as every local McDonald's goes, they always tell me I can't order off the Dollar Menu (the first thing I hear out of the speaker is "Welcome to McDonald's, I'm on the late-night menu, can I take your order?" and the late-night menu is clearly delineated), and a quarter-pounder or Big Mac will certainly suffice.

Generally, tho, I think that's a pretty okay meal. Local to campus, we have several restaurants whose prices go up on the same food after a certain time, and others add a "drunk tax" that you have to be watching for to pay attention. Seriously, "what's this extra $2 charge on my order," is not something you need to be asking.

At least you didn't get the service my friend got. He ordered a chicken chalupa at the local Taco Bell once, and received "yeah, man, we're outta chicken unless you have [insert illegal drug here] for us."

Zeb The Troll

2010-09-04, 03:31 AM

Quincunx

2010-09-04, 04:27 AM

...And Gareth most definitely works at the hole that sucked in my High School life, Arby's. I had a great crew, they were honestly like a 3rd family to me, but the average Arby's customer is apparently on some kind of heavy medication. That, or something about the restaurant throws the brain into some kind of lull. I don't know if science can fully explain it, but having worked at other places since, I actually have to tell you that many of those problems simply aren't as bad at other restaurants.

Sorry, dude.

If the few Arby's I've been in are indicative of the whole, science can explain it. I appreciate y'all's commitment to lowering your energy usage, but other restaurant chains are well-lit for a reason. None of the others are dark and dim enough to confuse my pineal gland. Maybe your main customer base has sensitive eyes and prefers dark colors and dim ambient lighting, but by the time my eyes have finished adjusting, I'm out of there and squinting against the day star.

Lady Moreta

2010-09-04, 05:30 AM

At least you didn't get the service my friend got. He ordered a chicken chalupa at the local Taco Bell once, and received "yeah, man, we're outta chicken unless you have [insert illegal drug here] for us."

Oh dear... :smalleek: I've been to a KFC that had run out of chicken once, that was rather amusing.

I have to say though, that I share your pain. I don't work in fast food, but I am a receptionist at present, and I have many similar complaints to do with people just not thinking for themselves.

Primarily - people who ring up the company and start telling me all their woes expecting me to be able to solve their problems or answer their questions. I am the receptionist. I am literally a glorified phone-answerer. I cannot solve your problems. Please don't tell them to me. And yes, I know you could argue that these people don't know who they want to talk to, or they don't know they're calling a big business. I say - ermm no, that's not true (at least in my case). The people who are calling are regular clients who know who their usual contacts are, they're just not thinking.

Second annoyance - people who ring and say "I missed a call from this number so I'm just calling back". Now, we have about 60-odd people in the office and I cannot (and will not) contact each one of them asking if they're the person who was doing the calling. So I ask if they have any idea who it was who rang them. And then... they tell me "Oh I'm not sure. I'll listen to the message they left and call back."

They left a message. Why in the name of all that's sane in the world, didn't you check it first!? This will get me raging mad faster than anything else. :smallfurious:

... I feel better now :smallbiggrin:

Lord_Gareth

2010-09-04, 09:37 AM

If the few Arby's I've been in are indicative of the whole, science can explain it. I appreciate y'all's commitment to lowering your energy usage, but other restaurant chains are well-lit for a reason. None of the others are dark and dim enough to confuse my pineal gland. Maybe your main customer base has sensitive eyes and prefers dark colors and dim ambient lighting, but by the time my eyes have finished adjusting, I'm out of there and squinting against the day star.

That decision rests in the hands of Corporate, which changes from region to region. Our Corporate is US Beef Corp, which owns something like 300 Arby's in the area. Their decisions are slightly less comprehensible than Cthulu, and they almost always impact our service negatively. We have no power in that regard T_T

tcrudisi

2010-09-04, 01:23 PM

Oh dear... :smalleek: I've been to a KFC that had run out of chicken once, that was rather amusing.

Ah hahaha - yeah, that's happened to the old chicken store I worked in as well. We had an absolutely brutal weekend and come Sunday night... we were out. Of course, we have a different way of handling it: we call up Hardees or KFC and ask them if we can borrow some raw chicken.

The funny thing that I would never have expected prior to working there is that the competitors are happy to let you borrow some chicken. Why? Because they sometimes (okay, it's rare, but it happens) have to call us to borrow some chicken. I think they are actually supposed to call their own stores first, but this is a small town and that would take a lot longer than just calling us.

Lioness

2010-09-04, 11:39 PM

I work in a deli, and have some things to add to the list.

Speak up. There is a counter between us, and I can't hear if you mumble. I promise, I don't bite. I just want to know what food you want. This is especially worse if the customer has an accent...I can't count the number of times I've mixed up "100g" and "1kg" because I couldn't hear.

Be Precise. "I want some ham" just doesn't cut it. When I prompt you, "Just some shaved ham" doesn't either. Most of our ham is shaved. Please tell us the type of ham, otherwise we will give you the most expensive. Also, "some" is not an interpretable amount. Give us "a small handful" or "about 200g". "Enough for a sandwich" is tolerable, but really, I don't know how much ham you have in a sandwich.

Say if you don't want anything. I had this happen to me today. "Sir, would you like anything else?" He looks at me. I ask again "Anything else?". He walks down the cabinet as if to look at a product. I follow. He walks away. For goodness' sake, I'm not going to be offended if you don't want anything.

Don't get cross if it's 5.50pm on a Sunday and we've run out of something that's on mega-special. You've chosen the last 10 minutes of the week to get something that everyone wants. Bad idea? Yeah.

And it'd be nice if I didn't get 5 people a day asking if those are yesterday's chickens. Ah, no. We don't sell yesterday's chickens. They came out of the oven an hour ago. Do they look like yesterday's chickens?

/rant. I wanna go work in a bookshop.

Skeppio

2010-09-04, 11:52 PM

I work in an office, so I don't get those kind of people. I'm usually the nice customer who goes in, orders quickly and is courteous. Because the people on the other side of the counter are people too.

/rant. I wanna go work in a bookshop.

I wonder what the pay's like in a bookshop. I'd like to work in one and I hate my current job, but it pays well so I'm a tad paranoid about leaving it. :smallannoyed:

Lioness

2010-09-05, 12:20 AM

I wonder what the pay's like in a bookshop. I'd like to work in one and I hate my current job, but it pays well so I'm a tad paranoid about leaving it. :smallannoyed:

Yeah...bookshop currently isn't really an option, because they aren't open after 5, and I finish school at 3. Minimum shift time is 3 hours. Also, deli pays pretty well, and there are absolutely fantastic days as well as bad ones.

But yeah. Uni time = bookshop.

Don Julio Anejo

2010-09-05, 01:54 AM

A little comment about looking at the menu: you'd be surprised how many people simply can't see it from a few people away. Me and a lot of people I know have glasses but most of the time we only put them on in class/for driving/when on the computer/etcetera, and we're not going to go through the pain of finding them just to look at the menu for 20 seconds.

Hence, we simply can't see what's on the menu without squinting to the point of pain when we're far away from it. And no-one wants to lose their place in line during a rush to see what's available.

Other than that... one of my first jobs was a cashier at the same place a certain clown happens to work. Am I weird in that I liked it? Sure, the pay was crap, but that was thanks to or assface of premier who decided that it's okay to pay people $6.50 instead of $8 an hour if we haven't yet worked 500 hours in the labor force.

The people working there were awesome, most of the customers were very nice (although that may be because it was in an upscale neighbourhood where you simply didn't get very many militant Walmart moms), I got pretty good at remembering long lists of things (since there's no way you can punch in 3-5 different meals as the customer is still speaking) and in general had a pretty fun time. The only thing I didn't like were the corporate "teambuilding" (translation - "brainwashing") sessions where they had you sit down and tell you how great of a place it is.

Skeppio

2010-09-05, 01:56 AM

Admittedly, I have trouble reading the menu from a distance too. And of course I don't want to lose my place. Hence why I tend to order the same thing each time. :smalltongue:

skywalker

2010-09-05, 02:51 AM

It's funny you mention that, skywalker. Not only is there a Burger King across the street (it's not open 24 hours, but it was open at that time) but there's also a late night Wendy's drive thru across the street the other way (again, not 24 hours, but certainly a choice well after my options are limited at the McD's). And my complaint here, in this thread, wasn't that they did it because I can see a couple of reasons why (like not being able to justify a cook and a drive thru teller if everyone's going to order $2 worth of food), it's that the menu isn't delineated by what's available late night, and even if it were, I wasn't made aware that I needed to focus on this unmarked late night menu because it's not marked what hours are even considered late night. :smallconfused: :smalleek: :smallfrown:

Yeah, as Argus said, probably just a horrible McD's, then. Every one in my area has a sign (that's even closer to the car, and so easier to read!) showing what you can get on the late-night menu, and the price.

That decision rests in the hands of Corporate, which changes from region to region. Our Corporate is US Beef Corp, which owns something like 300 Arby's in the area. Their decisions are slightly less comprehensible than Cthulu, and they almost always impact our service negatively. We have no power in that regard T_T

I have this thing with Arby's. It seems like a lot of people get terrible service. I go in there, and I feel like I'm going to get terrible service. The employees look at me as tho I'm receiving terrible service. But the fact is, I get darn good customer service 99 times out of 100 there.

Then again, I get good service 99 times out of 100 anyway, and I'm a prototypical "problem customer" (allergies), so whatever, I guess?

I work in a deli, and have some things to add to the list.

Speak up. There is a counter between us, and I can't hear if you mumble. I promise, I don't bite. I just want to know what food you want. This is especially worse if the customer has an accent...I can't count the number of times I've mixed up "100g" and "1kg" because I couldn't hear.

A-hahahaha, the Imperial/non-metric system triumphs!!! :smalltongue:

Lioness

2010-09-05, 02:57 AM

A-hahahaha, the Imperial/non-metric system triumphs!!! :smalltongue:

Heh. We also get problems with a lack of units. It's fine when a customer asks for "100 of salami", but when it starts getting into things like "100 of the prawns" I have to go..."wait...100 grams, or 100?"

Learned that the hard way from the one time I didn't ask. "100 prawns please" "Sure thing" *starts counting* "Oh...um...I actually meant 100 grams. Sorry"

:smallmad:

We get mixes of metric and imperial too...people ask for a couple of inches of fritz. Thankfully, no-one asks for ounces or pounds, and if they did, I'd tell them that the scale doesn't work like that, and can they put that in metric.

Maybe that's why so many old people don't give me exact amounts...

Serpentine

2010-09-05, 03:41 AM

The funny thing that I would never have expected prior to working there is that the competitors are happy to let you borrow some chicken. Why? Because they sometimes (okay, it's rare, but it happens) have to call us to borrow some chicken. I think they are actually supposed to call their own stores first, but this is a small town and that would take a lot longer than just calling us.My Boy used to work in the bakery (and before that, he worked... in a different bakery). They swap flour and other ingredients around all the time. Apparently the heirarchy of ingredient quality goes Moxon's, Baker's Delight (the place he worked), then Brumby's (the place he worked before). So they'd try to borrow from Moxon's, I think.

/rant. I wanna go work in a bookshop.There's mah cue :smallcool: Well, library, anyway...
Not much to complain about, actually. Pay's amazing, I like books, people I work with are mostly* fine, good hours - although I keep nagging them for more - only very, extremely rarely any "bad" customers, most of them even better than neutral...
There's really only a couple of things that bug me. One is terminology: when we put extra time on an item so you can take it for longer, that's called "renewing". "Extending" works, too. Wanting to "reborrow" it, or "borrow it again", suggest to me that you want to return it and then take it out again - and some people do want to do this, which means I do have to ask. I am not actually allowed to do that, even if we do have a sneak work-around (I return it, and then put it on the trolley. If it gets picked up from there, how am I expected to remember everyone's face and who returned what?).
I don't know why you get charged an extra $13 if you get sent a bill because you didn't return an item for months. Management decided it. None of us can give you a better reason than "it's to pay for the inconvenience of having to send out a letter, and the boss said so." Would you just pay it already? And why do bills always come up when it's really busy and there's a big line building up?
Please don't stink. (I have one customer who usually smells of toast and/or cigarettes, which is mostly just weird, and for a while there was a very nice man coming in who was absolutely rank. Nauseatingly disgustingly foul-smelling.)
You don't have to bring items back to renew them. You can also renew over the phone or internet if you want to. (this one I actually do tell people. Sometimes they already know and only decided they wanted to keep an item when they went to return it, but other times they come lugging in half a dozen books just to get their time extended. This one's really more for their sake than mine)
Items are loaned for 3 weeks, and they can be renewed twice. Renewal resets the due date to 3 weeks from the day of renewal. You have an item due in 18 days. Are you sure you want to renew it already? Really? You'll only gain 3 days? You can just call us in a fortnight... No? Okay... (this one's more of a pet peeve. 'tis inefficient :smalltongue:)

I think I annoy myself more than customers annoy me, really. Mostly I need to work on listening an enunciation. For instance, I fairly often get people giving me $X.X5c for a fine, because they mishear "You have a $X.X0 fine" for "You have a $X.X5" (what does that even mean? :smallconfused:). It happens often enough that I'm pretty sure the problem's me, not them. But it's accents I find the most hard, which is extra-problematic because we have several Africans (Sudanese, I think), a couple of Germans, a few French and I think several Thai or other Asian regulars. I'm always so embarrassed when I have trouble understanding what they're after. Last Saturday, one of the regular Africans with a particularly heavy accent was trying to book a couple of times on the internet. I managed that bit alright, but then he said something about many Maluachs. I thought he wanted me to book him on a couple of computers each time, but eventually he grabbed a pen and let me see to another customer while he wrote down what he wanted. It turns out, Maluach is a very common name in the local African community, so he wanted me to put down "Maluach Maluach" to distinguish his booking from any other's (a lot of them don't have surnames, so just put their one name twice). It was so helpful, his writing it down, but I felt awful that it was necessary :smallsigh: I try to get across that I know it's my problem, and I'll deal with it, but I always end up thinking about some mash-up of the horrible racist boss woman from The Librarians and the horrible racist weight-loss woman from Little Britain :smallfrown:

Fun fact: Some of the most exceptionally nice people who come into the library are residents of the local rehab centre. Despite the trepidations of my colleagues, I have never once had any of them respond negatively when I inform them that although the usual lending limit is 30 items, residents of Freeman House are only permitted 5. The first time it happened, my boss-on-the-day told me to come get her if the new member started to get nasty. When I told her about the limit, she just said "just in case we run off with 'em, eh? Fair enough!"

*My boss-on-the-day has been somewhat of a pain lately. She's not uncommonly quite rude to the customers, and two weekends in a row was incredibly rude, to both me and a customer - so much so, that I discussed it with my boss-boss.

Skeppio

2010-09-05, 03:54 AM

So the pay's good, hmm? Better than an office clerk ya reckon? I take home about $1200 a fortnight, but I'm sure I've said before that my job makes me want to stab myself in the face.

Serpentine

2010-09-05, 04:02 AM

I get $33.30AU an hour. Including casual loading, overtime cuz Saturdays count as overtime, I only work 3 hours a week, and I don't get any benefits like sick days or anything. On the up side, Saturdays are also tax-free.

Lioness

2010-09-05, 04:07 AM

Serp: what sort of qualifications do you need to work in a library? Because that would be cool too.

Serpentine

2010-09-05, 04:15 AM

If you want to be a librarian, you need a degree. As a lowly library assistant, I volunteered at a local library during high school, then applied for a job with the Gold Coast City Council (my dad told me about it and knew the woman in charge, but apparently I was hired on my own merits (and I was told they'd pretty much hire as many people as were suitable, so I can't help but think the other two must've sucked...). With that experienced, I just put in my resume at the uni and town libraries and nagged the bajeebus out of 'em 'til they hired me.
Understanding of the Dewey-Decimal System is a must, as is pretty good customer service. Other than that, I don't think there's all that much qualification at all. Just put in a resume and keep bugging them, consider offering to volunteer for a while in the meantime.

Skeppio

2010-09-05, 04:16 AM

What sort of degree? I've never heard of a librarian's degree.

And that pay is nearly twice my hourly rate. :smalleek:

Serpentine

2010-09-05, 04:18 AM

A degree in Library Science or something like that. Noone has given me a good explaination of what exactly the degree involves, yet.

Lioness

2010-09-05, 04:27 AM

A degree in Library Science or something like that. Noone has given me a good explaination of what exactly the degree involves, yet.

I see there's a TAFE course for it here...I shall put it as one of my preferences when applying for Uni.

Serpentine

2010-09-05, 04:35 AM

Fair enough. They're mostly council jobs, and government jobs are always pretty great.

Skeppio

2010-09-05, 04:36 AM

Reckon 7 months experience in Residential Lending would get me anywhere more enjoyable than my current job? :smallconfused:

SilverSheriff

2010-09-05, 01:41 PM

I'm not a fan of their food personally. It tastes cheap and greasy to me.

You probably have no idea how good cheap and greasy food is after being trapped in the train station in the middle of the city for 3 hours.:smallsigh:
I went through that on Saturday; Brisbane (where I live) has 'Riverfire' every year, I made the mistake of going to the movies right where the fireworks and airshow were being held by the time the movie was over the streets were clogged with people, there were Ques to the trains as far as I could see. :smallfrown:

That Burger was the best I've had in my life; and I've had some pretty damn good Burgers.

I get $33.30AU an hour. Including casual loading, overtime cuz Saturdays count as overtime, I only work 3 hours a week, and I don't get any benefits like sick days or anything. On the up side, Saturdays are also tax-free.

*Reads*
*Double-Reads*
*Head Explodes*

If I could work that Job I'd be able to afford a video game a week...:smalltongue:

Zeb The Troll

2010-09-05, 11:32 PM

Troll Patrol: As interesting as this current discussion about the payscale of a librarian is, it's off track for this thread. Let's steer it back towards customer/employee interaction and how we can help each other have a more positive experience on both sides of the counter, alright?

Serpentine

2010-09-05, 11:48 PM

Heh, sorry. Not a librarian, though :smalltongue:

Ummm... Oh yeah! I forgot to mention something. The other day I had a woman looking for something for her mother, but it couldn't be written by an American nor have American characters. And ages ago, I had an older woman looking for books, but they could not be written by a woman nor have a female main character. Not long after that I heard a call in a taxi by what sounded like an elderly woman requesting a taxi, with a male driver. I wonder if it was the same person...

Lord_Gareth

2010-09-06, 12:06 AM

Zeb The Troll

2010-09-06, 01:10 AM

This one might just be Arby's-specific, but:

Listen When We Ask Clarifying Questions: And then apply at least a mockery of brain power to the exercise. This woman came through my drive-through today after having ordered the number 2 (Medium Roast Beef) combo and then got angry that her fries and drink were small-sized. I tried explaining that all combos start out small (and, though I didn't mention it, I'd read the order back, size and all, to her before she went to pay) and this became a fifteen minute scene involving a manager and screaming. She got her food. Eventually. I hope she chokes on it >.>

Honestly, I think everything can be condensed down to this - just because you're a paying customer does not mean you have the right to give us the kind of treatment that would get you shot in any other social venue. We're people too, you know.It's not Arby's specific, I assure you.

It's really not too much of a stretch to think that everything would be a medium, is it? Remember the part about it being hard to hear through the squawk box, combined with the fact that every other drive-thru combo in the universe1 defaults to Medium, not small. And do you know for certain that she wasn't distracted by an important phone call/bratty kid/interesting news story on the radio? Let's not forget that the combo has "medium" in the name.

*Also, I think you meant "modicum of brain power". It doesn't make much sense as "mockery". :smalltongue:

1"every other one in the universe" is defined as "most places I've experienced". :smallwink:

Lord_Gareth

2010-09-06, 01:11 AM

I assure you, the use of the term 'mockery' was quite deliberate. Most of my customers today didn't have actual brain power with which to slice of a usable modicum, and thus I beg only that they at least bring a farce to bear, rather than nothing at all.

Zeb The Troll

2010-09-06, 01:22 AM

Oh, yeah, that makes sense that way. I was having trouble gleaning your meaning from it, which was why I thought maybe you just used the wrong word.

Still, I don't think the situation was wholly unreasonable or irrational.

MartytheBioGuy

2010-09-06, 02:01 AM

Yeah, as far as the combo goes, I got that a lot. And people thinking the #3 defaulted to large, too. Some people also labored under the opinion that the Market Fresh sandwiches all came in large combos as a default.

And then, of course, there were those who ordered things that haven't been on our menu in years. If we say that it's been removed from the menu, please... believe us. We do this for a living (or gas money during High School, whichever). We can show you where it would be, but if I tell you we haven't had an onion petal in the store since 2004, just assume that we're not just doing it to be mean to you. :smallannoyed:

Lioness

2010-09-06, 02:59 AM

Yeah...other large supermarket chain sells Virginian Ham. We don't.

We constantly get people who ask whether we have Virginian Ham. We tell them, "No, we don't stock it", and they get all "*glare* Are you sure?"
Yes! I'm positive!

I had a guy ask whether deli sold parmigiana sauce. Um, no. We sell chicken, fish, ham, bacon, redskins, antipasto, and salads. We don't sell sauce. Try aisle 5.
He got annoyed because we didn't have it.

Serpentine

2010-09-06, 03:50 AM

I always find it funny when people ask me where the DVDs are. You can see them from the desk where they ask... That one I understand, it just amuses me :smalltongue:

Lioness

2010-09-06, 03:52 AM

I was once filling our cheese bar, and had about 10 customers come and ask me where something was.

In every case, it was Aisle 5. In most cases, I've got no more idea than the customer - I just look at the signs that tell you what's down each aisle.

So, customer hint, unless you're in a hurry, look first. Apply common sense. If you're looking for Sushi rice, and the sign says "Asian food", it's probably there.

skywalker

2010-09-06, 03:55 AM

Still, I don't think the situation was wholly unreasonable or irrational.

Me neither. Of course, I pay attention to menus, such that I normally order a medium combo when I go to Arby's, but then I'm always shocked at how big the "medium" stuff is.

A lot of combo options and what not have been changing lately, with the economy the way it is. Most specifically, I've noticed that while prices have continued to rise at the local movie theaters, the amount of food I receive hasn't even stayed the same, it has decreased.

Also, there are some things Arby's really should still have on the menu that they don't, like a premium sandwich that doesn't come with mayo. That would be great...

Serpentine

2010-09-06, 03:56 AM

The people at my supermarket are usually nice and helpful with that (I know they hate it, I don't care, they're getting paid :smalltongue:). But I only ever ask when I really can't find it, and that would happen a lot less if they'd stop moving all the stuff around to force you to spend more time wandering around looking for it in an attempt to trick you into buying more crap you don't need :smallannoyed:
(not just hyperbole there, by the way. One of the workers I asked about an item found it for me, and then proceeded to rant about how Management are constantly shifting stuff around just to trap more buyers)

KuReshtin

2010-09-06, 04:20 AM

I've had my fair share of annoyingly silly customer requests over the phone when I worked for the IBM/Lenovo tech support.

People phoning in to complain about wanting their money back from us because they'd bought a laptop that they then figured weren't up to their expectations were annoying mainly because they never seemed to grasp the fact that the tech support is just that. tech support. We can not refund any money for a purchase. You need to go back to the dealer where you bought it, and they will have to take care of it for you. And yes, I am sure that that's the case.

Also, we don't have a copy of every ad from every dealer, so if a dealer has a special offer on, the best thing to do is to contact them. I don't know if A Blinkin' Electronics will give you a spare 2Gig of RAM if you buy one of our laptops from them. You'd better call them.

And lastly, and I'm saying this with the best of intentions, WHY do you feel the need to have a laptop with a 3G connection, webcam, 17" screen, Blu-ray, and a 256Mb graphics card if all you're going to do with it is play Solitaire or Mine sweeper?
if you don't know how to use a computer, I suggest you look up a local university or college or whatever that offers a night class on how to use your computer.
Hell, I've even suggested that a customer go to a book shop to buy a 'Computers for Dummies' book a few times, because they admitted to knowing nothing about using their computers.

Sholos

2010-09-06, 07:40 AM

I'm kinda surprised no one has dropped this link yet.

http://notalwaysright.com/

Anyways, I work in the back, and I can attest that it is most frustrating when people change their order half-way through. What's even more frustrating, though, is when someone forgets to modify their sandwich when they order it, and then comes back asking for another one; though this is really only relevant during a rush, when having to remake the sandwich breaks up our flow.

Marillion

2010-09-06, 05:18 PM

Read the Damn Menu:

Honest to god this exchange happened between one of the servers and a customer.
"Do you know what you'd like to eat this evening?"
"Yes, I'd like the chicken parmesan, but with veal instead."
"Ummm...*points out the veal parmesan, which is 2 dollars more and literally the next item on the menu. There is no difference between the chicken and veal parmesan except that one has chicken and one has veal, and the price.*
"No, I'd like the chicken parmesan, but with veal instead."
(At this point I like to imagine the server pinched the bridge of his nose and sighed in frustration) "It'll be a two-dollar upcharge."
"Ok! *hands him the menu*
WHAT WAS THE POINT OF THAT I DON'T EVEN :smallamused:

Also: "I don't want a martini, but I want chilled gin and vermouth in a martini glass with an olive.":smallconfused:
That's like saying "I don't want spaghetti and meatballs in red sauce, but I want long tubular pasta and spherical lumps of ground meat in a tomato based sauce.":smallannoyed:

Be Kind to Your Server: If you've got a coupon that discounts your meal, or especially if management decides to comp your meal, please, send some extra money to your server. Of course, this only applies to countries that have a tipping culture in the first place, but your server worked very hard to make sure you enjoy your meal. Assuming you were to going to give a 15% tip, but your meal is now free, even if you give a 40% (My standard:smallcool:) tip you're still saving a bunch of money. Of course, if you received poor service, that's something else entirely.

Be Kind to Your Kitchen: We love our customers and want you to return, but seriously, asking for a completely custom dish smack in the middle of Friday night service just isn't cool. If you want to modify an existing dish, by all means, go ahead. But assuming that we accept your request, that means that someone has to prep your entire dish from scratch, meaning without fail that about 6 other orders will be late getting to the table, and nobody wants that. Please, reserve your custom requests for a night that isn't so ridiculously busy.

Be Kind to Everyone: Yes, I know the sign says we're open until 10. That doesn't mean that we're looking forward to that table at 9:57 that stays until 11:15. At that time, unless we have been railed the entire night and are in fact still busy, the kitchen has been mostly broken down and wrapped. We will then cook your order as fast as we can, set it under the heatlamps, and continue closing. The servers are not so lucky; they aren't allowed to close around the guests, meaning that they will likely be there a half hour after everyone else has left except management. Please, try to come in earlier, or failing that, order your food to go.

WarKitty

2010-09-06, 05:27 PM

One of the main lessons from various low-level jobs:

If you must get mad at someone over store policy, please make the effort to find the right person. Yelling at the clerk or the set-up worker or whoever is really rather pointless. Take it up with the appropriate level of management, don't just stand there chewing out a peon with no influence whatsoever.

Zeb The Troll

2010-09-06, 06:24 PM

skywalker

2010-09-07, 01:45 AM

Be Kind to Your Server: If you've got a coupon that discounts your meal, or especially if management decides to comp your meal, please, send some extra money to your server. Of course, this only applies to countries that have a tipping culture in the first place, but your server worked very hard to make sure you enjoy your meal. Assuming you were to going to give a 15% tip, but your meal is now free, even if you give a 40% (My standard:smallcool:) tip you're still saving a bunch of money. Of course, if you received poor service, that's something else entirely.

I tip 15% for average service, it doesn't matter whether I had a coupon or not. You get tipped on the price I would have paid, not extra because I paid less. That's just silly, doesn't make any sense. 15% for average (C) service. 20% for "B" service. 25% or higher for "A" service, and the reverse for poorer service. I have left no tip before. Don't be a jerk. Also, if I pay for a $14.95 tab with a $20, don't bring me back $5 of change. That 5 cents belongs to me up until the point I give it to you. I didn't hand you $20 and say "keep 5 cents of this," did I? In effect, you have stolen my 5 cents. This behavior automatically reduces your tip by a grade level. Also, bringing back bills that are entirely too large also bothers me. You should bring me back bills small enough to tip you 15%. Anything else is presumption, and that's another thing worth a grade level's reduction of tip.

Be Kind to Your Kitchen: We love our customers and want you to return, but seriously, asking for a completely custom dish smack in the middle of Friday night service just isn't cool. If you want to modify an existing dish, by all means, go ahead. But assuming that we accept your request, that means that someone has to prep your entire dish from scratch, meaning without fail that about 6 other orders will be late getting to the table, and nobody wants that. Please, reserve your custom requests for a night that isn't so ridiculously busy.

Wah, wah, we have to serve you what you actually want. Yes, it's stupid to walk into most restaurants and ask for something totally not on the menu, but if you aren't prepping my dish from scratch, do I really want to eat there in the first place? Some of us have unavoidable issues (allergies) which means that we either get our food made from scratch, or we don't eat at your restaurant. Ask management which choice you'd like me to make.

Be Kind to Everyone: Yes, I know the sign says we're open until 10. That doesn't mean that we're looking forward to that table at 9:57 that stays until 11:15. At that time, unless we have been railed the entire night and are in fact still busy, the kitchen has been mostly broken down and wrapped. We will then cook your order as fast as we can, set it under the heatlamps, and continue closing. The servers are not so lucky; they aren't allowed to close around the guests, meaning that they will likely be there a half hour after everyone else has left except management. Please, try to come in earlier, or failing that, order your food to go.

This one I actually agree with, I hate being "that guy" at closing time. I wouldn't feel too scandalized if I saw rudeness applied to someone who walked in at 9:57, because honestly, you should just find a different restaurant that's open later.

However, I have also known some restaurants where certain people (IE, me, in a lot of cases) were welcome to come in at that sort of time. And that can make it confusing for those who aren't welcome.

Serpentine

2010-09-07, 01:48 AM

Hate tipping culture so much >.< Guess that's one thing I have in common with my stepsister...

Zeb The Troll

2010-09-07, 02:06 AM

Hate tipping culture so much >.< Guess that's one thing I have in common with my stepsister...I can both agree and disagree with this. On one hand, tips encourage good service. On the other hand, it sucks to rely on other people's definition of "appropriate" for your income.

On the whole, though, from people I've known (I have never worked a job that relied on tips), if you're actually putting forth the effort to be a good server or whatever, tips tend to add up to far more than minimum wage would be.

Serpentine

2010-09-07, 02:10 AM

Zeb The Troll

2010-09-07, 02:36 AM

You should be getting paid appropriately for your job and needs. If you give exceptional service, or the food is extra-tasty, or whatever, you might get an extra couple of dollars. Getting paid for your job and not getting fired encourages good service - good service is a job description, not an optional extra!No. Adequate service is the job description. Just enough to get by is enough to not get fired. There aren't enough people willing to do this job that firing people for mediocre service is a viable strategy.

My stepsister got into big arguments with her boss and coworkers when she was working at the Winter Olympics over it. She maintained that it was unfair that the waiters (of which she was one) and kitchen staff were being paid the same (low) amount for comparable work, but only the waitstaff got tips. I agree with her.Okay, in this description, you're absolutely right. However, here, jobs that get tips are subject to different pay rules. For example, the cook in the back gets, let's say $7.50 an hour (barely better than minimum wage) for slinging omelettes at a Denny's. The server, on the other hand, gets $2.50/hour plus tips. If she's being pissy and screwing up orders, she's not even going to make what Cookie is making because she's not going to get tipped much, if at all. On the other hand, if she's pleasant, gets orders right on the first try, is attentive, and puts forth a little extra effort (like bringing extra napkins to a table with a toddler without being asked or making sure I never see the bottom of my coffee cup unless I tell her I'm done), then she'll probably average closer to $10 an hour (at a Denny's).

Serpentine

2010-09-07, 03:28 AM

Blackmail and threats are not the way to wring good service out of your employees.
I'll just leave it at "I'm really, really glad that hasn't leaked over here yet".

Okay, I actually won't. We don't have a tipping culture, and yet I very rarely experience bad - or even particularly mediocre - service just about anywhere. Because they are expected to behave well. That's what they're paid for - to be a credit to their employer.

Zeb The Troll

2010-09-07, 04:02 AM

Blackmail and threats are not the way to wring good service out of your employees.
I'll just leave it at "I'm really, really glad that hasn't leaked over here yet".You see it as blackmail and threats, I see it as promises and treats. Good service=good pay. Great service=great pay. Terrible service=terrible pay. It's a direct correlation. Furthermore, it doesn't rely on the watchfulness of management. It's self correcting. You have to be on your toes all the time, not just when the boss is watching.

Comparitively, without this incentive to do good work all the time, there is no acceptable recourse for me if I receive bad service. You do acceptable work, you get X amount of money. You do awesome work, you don't gain any benefit over your barely acceptable coworker. You do subpar work, you get paid the same amount as your awesome coworker. Where's the incentive to keep smiling at the end of a 12 hour shift or a double you had to cover because your shoddy coworker couldn't be bothered to plan ahead for a night off and you got stuck covering their shift?

I'll give you an even better example. Many restaurants automatically figure in an 18% tip on larger parties (usually 8 or more). That means that no matter how shoddy your service is, I have to tip you like you gave us above average service. With little exception, this service is rarely up to par because they know they're getting a good tip on a large tab without having to put any effort into beyond taking our order and bringing out our food. Too many times I've seen it happen where once the food is delivered, we never see our server again and actually have to go find them to let them know we'd like our check. This is how I envision ALL service would be if their livelihood did not directly depend on them having to be at least moderately attentive to all of their customers.

Okay, I actually won't. We don't have a tipping culture, and yet I very rarely experience bad - or even particularly mediocre - service just about anywhere. Because they are expected to behave well. That's what they're paid for - to be a credit to their employer.Funny, I rarely receive bad service either. :smallcool:

And what do you do if they don't measure up? What would you do if you got the types of slipshod service I've described? Make a scene with the manager which may get them fired? That seems to be a bit draconian for someone who might just be having a bad day, doesn't it?

Suffice to say, neither way is wrong if it's working, right?

(Added bonus to being paid by tips - you walk out of the door with cash in hand every single day you go to work. :smallwink: )

Serpentine

2010-09-07, 05:06 AM

Where's the incentive to keep smiling at the end of a 12 hour shift or a double you had to cover because your shoddy coworker couldn't be bothered to plan ahead for a night off and you got stuck covering their shift?In your conditions of employ.

And what do you do if they don't measure up? What would you do if you got the types of slipshod service I've described? Make a scene with the manager which may get them fired? That seems to be a bit draconian for someone who might just be having a bad day, doesn't it?You ignore it, if it's not a problem, give them the benefit of the doubt. If it is a problem, you can complain - unless there's a lot of complaints, they're unlikely to be fired, just talked-to. If they are fired on the basis of a single complaint, it's probably grounds for an unfair dismissal claim. Or you avoid that business, and/or spread the word that it has bad service there.
What we don't do is assume from the outset that everyone is absolutely sheethouse at their job and pay them accordingly, and let them beg for whatever scraps customers are willing to toss their way if they're good. We pay them for the job they are hired to do, at the assumption that they will do a good job, and if they don't, they'll be reassigned or let go. A very optional tip-jar might get them all a round at the pub after work if it's a particularly good establishment.
I know I'm not exactly minimum wage, but not long ago I had an entire day-long workshop devoted to customer service. A specific part of my training included things like "smile when you talk, even on the phone. Acknowledge people further down the line. Always be courteous". My Boy is pretty awful with customer service if he's left to his own devices (and I very much doubt the promise of tips would prompt him to do better, especially if it involved a pay cut), but his boss is always breathing down his neck about it and boy do they complain if he's not up to scratch.
If you don't have good customer service skills, you won't keep your job. Or else the business gets a reputation for bad customer service - thus it's in the businessowner's interest to keep their staff in line.
Really, I can only assume that the work ethic over there and the expectations in workers, or at least the perceptions of them, are incredibly poor compared to here *shrug*

Suffice to say, neither way is wrong if it's working, right?For the customer? Maybe. For worker's rights, quality of living and fairness? I am less certain.

(Added bonus to being paid by tips - you walk out of the door with cash in hand every single day you go to work. :smallwink: )So does my Boy :smalltongue:

Don Julio Anejo

2010-09-07, 05:29 AM

Serp, the thing is... You're assuming an ideal world. You're also assuming that waiters get paid enough - I'm not sure about Australia, but in North America what they get paid is barely enough to get by. It's usually close to the minimum wage, and even assuming the laws that allow them to be paid less than minimum in some cases were removed, it still wouldn't be very much.

No tipping culture would lead to any or all of three things: 1. Servers simply won't give a crap and will not give a damn about customers. I.e. much of Europe, like France, Spain and Italy. 2. Wages will have to be raised significantly (say from $8 to $12-14) as an incentive for employees (only a few actually care about pleasing customers, on the other hand many more care about doing a job well or sucking up to the boss). This means higher prices for food and in essence, the same thing as tips.

Or, 3. Many looking for part-time work will look for other options if wages are low, like cashiering in supermarkets where pay will likely be the same but the job is much less stressful. End result? Service jobs fill up with people much less qualified for it, like immigrants fresh of the boat who can't speak much English (they already make up 99% of all fast food establishments). Service gets even crappier than option 1 because you simply won't understand one another.

Phaedra

2010-09-07, 05:30 AM

Teddy

2010-09-07, 05:32 AM

Here in Sweden, we have a lighter tipping culture where the waiters get enough pay according to law, but you may leave an additional sum if you like the service. This usually consists of the change you recieved while paying, and I see it as a good way of encouraging and rewarding good service. I do think that the tipping culture in the states is a bit over the top, but I don't really have that much against it.

EDIT:

Personally, I'm pretty sure I would be happier at work, and thus my attitude to customers would be better if I knew I was guaranteed a decent wage for my work rather than it being so variable.

The problem is that this sadly doesn't apply to everyone...

Zeb The Troll

2010-09-07, 05:36 AM

In your conditions of employ.I disagree. Your conditions of employ set out a minimum baseline standard that is acceptable. I'm asking what is the incentive to exceed that standard? To not just be a passable food pusher but to provide excellent service, above and beyond what your "meets but does not exceed expectations" coworkers are doing?

Serpentine

2010-09-07, 05:46 AM

Serp, the thing is... You're assuming an ideal world.No I'm not. I'm assuming Australia as it currently exists :smallconfused:

You're also assuming that waiters get paid enough - I'm not sure about Australia, but in North America what they get paid is barely enough to get by. It's usually close to the minimum wage, and even assuming the laws that allow them to be paid less than minimum in some cases were removed, it still wouldn't be very much.That would be my problem - people should be paid enough for the job they do and to live on. If they are - and they are here - then they don't need tips.

No tipping culture would lead to any or all of three things: 1. Servers simply won't give a crap and will not give a damn about customers. I.e. much of Europe, like France, Spain and Italy. 2. Wages will have to be raised significantly (say from $8 to $12-14) as an incentive for employees (only a few actually care about pleasing customers, on the other hand many more care about doing a job well or sucking up to the boss). This means higher prices for food and in essence, the same thing as tips.
Or, 3. Many looking for part-time work will look for other options if wages are low, like cashiering in supermarkets where pay will likely be the same but the job is much less stressful. End result? Service jobs fill up with people much less qualified for it, like immigrants fresh of the boat who can't speak much English (they already make up 99% of all fast food establishments). Service gets even crappier than option 1 because you simply won't understand one another.Well, Australia has no tipping culture, and 1. Service is totally fine. Servers often go above and beyond the call of duty. 2. Minimum wages here are around $12-14AUS. Higher, actually, I think. It certainly hasn't killed our industries, or resulted in economic meltdown, nor are our prices pushed through the roof because of it.
And 3. Australia has absolutely no shortage of waitstaff and other "tipping-appropriate" would-be employees, non-English-speaking immig'ants and born-and-bred true-blue Aussies alike - the contrary, the area is quite competitive.
So, basically, you are wrong. Maybe it might be the case in some places, but you were making a blanket statement, and that blanket statement is simply incorrect. Because we already have it, and we have absolutely none of your dire consequences.

I disagree. Your conditions of employ set out a minimum baseline standard that is acceptable. I'm asking what is the incentive to exceed that standard? To not just be a passable food pusher but to provide excellent service, above and beyond what your "meets but does not exceed expectations" coworkers are doing?Obviously our "minimum baseline standard" is far, far higher than yours.

Phaedra

2010-09-07, 05:46 AM

I disagree. Your conditions of employ set out a minimum baseline standard that is acceptable. I'm asking what is the incentive to exceed that standard? To not just be a passable food pusher but to provide excellent service, above and beyond what your "meets but does not exceed expectations" coworkers are doing?

What is the incentive for any worker in any job? Your average office worker or professional does not get tips yet many of them must exceed expectations. Why do service providers in particular need that extra push?

(And this is assuming that it actually does push people to better service, which I'm doubtful about having experienced good service in countries without such a tipping culture. I'm sure I read somewhere that bonuses don't improve productivity, I'll try to track down the article when I get home).

Aiani

2010-09-07, 05:54 AM

My main problem with tipping culture is there are far too many people who leave bad or no tip even when they receive good service. These people seem to think tipping is optional based on their mood of the day or whatever. You know the type, maybe the coworker you would be embarrassed to go out to lunch with because they leave such a bad tip. My boyfriends father is like that and my bf usually goes back and leaves a better tip. Sadly there is nothing to stop these people from being cheap and abusing the tipping system. I've never even worked in the food service industry and that kind of thing still makes me furious.

Also I'm in the camp that says above average is expected just for your regular pay. I know I'm expected to do more than the bare minimum at my job even though I don't receive tips.

Serpentine

2010-09-07, 06:10 AM

Zeb The Troll

2010-09-07, 06:14 AM

Servers often go above and beyond the call of duty. 2. Minimum wages here are around $12-14AUS. Higher, actually, I think. Here's a major difference then. That minimum wage is 150% or more of what non-tipped minimum wages are here. Is that minimum wage for all jobs or just the nominal average pay for a restaurant server? Because if they got paid this much here, it would be a job worth striving to keep instead of one to strive to get out of. Note that I said earlier I don't think your average server makes that much with tips. (After conversion to USD.)

Obviously our "minimum baseline standard" is far, far higher than yours.Again, the above situation would have a direct effect on the situation. And there's no way you will convince me that making the restaurant pay all servers more than they make now with tips won't increase the price of my food dramatically.

What is the incentive for any worker in any job? Your average office worker or professional does not get tips yet many of them must exceed expectations. Why do service providers in particular need that extra push?

(And this is assuming that it actually does push people to better service, which I'm doubtful about having experienced good service in countries without such a tipping culture. I'm sure I read somewhere that bonuses don't improve productivity, I'll try to track down the article when I get home).Maybe, maybe not. But getting the same reward as someone who's not doing their job certainly affects it. Just this last year, I worked my butt off at work. When pay raises came around, we were all told that everyone was getting the same pay raise. Even the people who come to work and sleep for 6 of the 8 hours they are here (the hours that management is not here) and are clearly not contributing to the work being done. This year,as a result, I don't care. That expectation that my pay raise was going to be better than the slacker next to me is my incentive to work better. Wait staff doesn't get annual pay raises. They get tips.

Don't get me wrong, there are problems with this system. For example, if it's a slow night and no one comes in to eat, the server gets screwed through no fault of their own. (On the other hand, on Serp's scale without tips [$11-$13USD], the restaurant has to pay them 4-6 times as much money for their presence whether or not there's actually any work to be done. It may actually cost them more money to have them there doing nothing than to send them home, but they can't just say "Ah well, slow night. Lock up, everyone. Let's shut it down early tonight before I go broke.")

Serpentine

2010-09-07, 06:19 AM

Again, the above situation would have a direct effect on the situation. And there's no way you will convince me that making the restaurant pay all servers more than they make now with tips won't increase the price of my food dramatically.Quite possibly. I have no doubt that it would be incredibly hard to excise the system once it's ingrained. But that just means I am even more against any possibility if sneaking its insidious tentacles into my country.

Apparently Australian Minimum Wage is $15 an hour, and 21% casual loading. (http://www.fairwork.gov.au/Fact-sheets-tools/Pages/FWO-fact-sheet-Minimum-wages.aspx#what is the current national minimum wage)

Hey, if you come to the Meet-up, you can judge our services for yourself :smalltongue: And if you forget and give someone your normal tip rate, I'm sure you'll make their day :smallwink:

Lady Moreta

2010-09-07, 06:21 AM

It may actually cost them more money to have them there doing nothing than to send them home, but they can't just say "Ah well, slow night. Lock up, everyone. Let's shut it down early tonight before I go broke.")

Actually, there are places over here that do exactly that. There are at least two places near where I work that will close when they run out of food, regardless of what time that happens to be. I don't know how that affects the staff's pay because I don't work there, but closing because it's quiet isn't that uncommon.

Phaedra

2010-09-07, 06:30 AM

Again, the above situation would have a direct effect on the situation. And there's no way you will convince me that making the restaurant pay all servers more than they make now with tips won't increase the price of my food dramatically.

No, I'm sure it will increase the price of food. The amount you're actually paying in real terms probably won't go up all that much though because you won't have to tip as much. The difference is that the company is paying the staff, not you.

Maybe, maybe not. But getting the same reward as someone who's not doing their job certainly affects it. Just this last year, I worked my butt off at work. When pay raises came around, we were all told that everyone was getting the same pay raise. Even the people who come to work and sleep for 6 of the 8 hours they are here (the hours that management is not here) and are clearly not contributing to the work being done. This year,as a result, I don't care. That expectation that my pay raise was going to be better than the slacker next to me is my incentive to work better. Wait staff doesn't get annual pay raises. They get tips.

Well, I can't be sure the article I read on bonuses will apply to waitstaff until I actually find it (if I can), but in both cases it's extra pay for good work (it was bonuses, not pay rises, i.e. an extra one off monetary payment). The principles should be the same. The basic premise was that extra money was generally no push towards better work. I can't remember any more off the top of my head, but I suspect those who were going to work hard did so for basic wage and those who did not were not made better by the promise of extra money.

Don't get me wrong, there are problems with this system. For example, if it's a slow night and no one comes in to eat, the server gets screwed through no fault of their own. (On the other hand, on Serp's scale without tips [$11-$13USD], the restaurant has to pay them 4-6 times as much money for their presence whether or not there's actually any work to be done. It may actually cost them more money to have them there doing nothing than to send them home, but they can't just say "Ah well, slow night. Lock up, everyone. Let's shut it down early tonight before I go broke.")

Someone has to pay for slow nights - should it be the corporation with the high profits or the worker on less than minimum wage?

Aiani

2010-09-07, 06:48 AM

After going out to a really nice dinner, far too fancy for uni students, we all put in a bit to make a pretty decent tip to show our appreciation. My friend's utter douchebag boyfriend* snatched the money from our hands and ran outside with it so we couldn't give it to them. Oh, and he kept the money.

*there are few people I would call Bad People. He is one of them. I don't think I've ever met someone worse. Pretty sure he would've been right into Hitler Youth if he weren't Catholic.

I thought I had met some jerks but that guy really takes the cake. I'm feeling mad and I don't even know him.

I know I received awesome service while in Japan a few years ago and they don't do the whole tipping thing. Actually their service went way above and beyond pretty much everywhere, in shops and other places where we wouldn't tip here in states.

WarKitty

2010-09-07, 07:33 AM

Our problem is tips seem at some locations to have as much to do with one's breast size as the actual service.

Yeah, tipping's a nice idea, but it becomes a problem when you don't know how much you're bringing home each week. Maybe not so much for the teen workers, but we have a lot of adults with families (particularly single moms) working low-end jobs like that.

Lioness

2010-09-07, 07:37 AM

I thought I had met some jerks but that guy really takes the cake. I'm feeling mad and I don't even know him.

I know I received awesome service while in Japan a few years ago and they don't do the whole tipping thing. Actually their service went way above and beyond pretty much everywhere, in shops and other places where we wouldn't tip here in states.

My Japanese teacher mentioned that, if you tip in Japan, they chase you and give your money back.

Alarra

2010-09-07, 08:33 AM

Here's a major difference then. That minimum wage is 150% or more of what non-tipped minimum wages are here. Is that minimum wage for all jobs or just the nominal average pay for a restaurant server? Because if they got paid this much here, it would be a job worth striving to keep instead of one to strive to get out of. Note that I said earlier I don't think your average server makes that much with tips. (After conversion to USD.)
I seem to recall that everything seemed twice as expensive there than here and for all intents and purposes that minimum wage is close to equal to ours.

Personally, I like the idea of tips, because when I was a server I was really good at it and made fantastic money. I admit that the system isn't perfect, but I would hate to see the service we get around here if there wasn't that incentive to do well. Personally, I get crappy service all the time, especially at fast food restaurants where there is no tip involved. It's actually one of the things I've hated most about moving to the east coast. People over here suck at customer service, 90% of them, I'd say, much much worse than in the midwest.

lesser_minion

2010-09-07, 09:04 AM

Over here, we expect restaurants to put any tips they receive in a pot and share them between everyone there at the end of the evening -- the idea being that good service reflects on the restaurant as a whole, not just the people we saw (it's not uncommon in the UK for more than one waiter or waitress to serve a particular table).

There's also a little controversy over 'optional service charges', since this usually amounts to tips being used to 'top up' a pay packet that wouldn't be minimum wage otherwise (although the minimum wage is pretty low in the UK -- £3.57 for under 18s, £4.83 for under 22s, and £5.80 for everyone else).

There's one fairly big thing from my old job that's worth ranting about:

If someone refuses to sell you alcohol or tobacco, just let it slide.

In the UK, the punishment for selling alcohol illegally -- even by mistake -- is broadly equivalent to summary execution, and certain elements of the media would prefer it if that weren't hyperbole.

As a result, making a fuss if someone refuses a sale is a really bad idea. Insulting the cashier's integrity will get you nowhere, and asking to speak to a supervisor is not going to help either (they must back up the cashier if this ever comes up, even if they think the cashier is being unreasonable).

If the cashier asks you for ID you don't have, if she thinks you've already had too much to drink, or if she thinks that you're buying alcohol for the twelve year old kids waiting outside, then just leave the alcohol behind at the till. Making a fuss will not get you anywhere.

Pyrian

2010-09-07, 10:21 AM

Our problem is tips seem at some locations to have as much to do with one's breast size as the actual service.Are "some locations" strip clubs? :smallcool:

Zeb The Troll

2010-09-07, 10:50 AM

Someone has to pay for slow nights - should it be the corporation with the high profits or the worker on less than minimum wage?That's why I listed it as a flaw with the system. It may not have seemed that way the way I wrote it, but it's what I meant.

WarKitty

2010-09-07, 11:08 AM

Are "some locations" strip clubs? :smallcool:

I wish. Nope, it's your standard dining establishment, although this is affected by the fact that there's a lot of students around.

Alarra

2010-09-07, 11:47 AM

(although the minimum wage is pretty low in the UK -- £3.57 for under 18s, £4.83 for under 22s, and £5.80 for everyone else).

I think this is an excellent idea. They should have different minimum wages for age categories.

Erloas

2010-09-07, 12:03 PM

2. Minimum wages here are around $12-14AUS. Higher, actually, I think. It certainly hasn't killed our industries, or resulted in economic meltdown, nor are our prices pushed through the roof because of it.

From what I've gathered, things do cost a lot more there then in the US though. Given I haven't checked food prices at all, but the price of gaming related things and computer components (only price related things I talk about much online) is a lot higher there. I know when you mentioned what a librarian makes (think it was another thread) it seemed really high for that sort of job, unless it was sort of a head/management sort of librarian position. I know the conversion rate says 0.914AUD to 1.00USD, but from what I've seen the actual conversions don't factor into actual living costs very well. *from your other post... I have no idea what casual loading is.

As for tipping, I think you would find a lot of people working under the tipping system would never trade it for the normal minimum wage and doing away with the tipping system. A good wait-person can make a lot more then what a company is likely to pay for those sorts of positions normally.

One thing that is clearly seen from tipping, is that anyone can be effective and efficient at waiting and get tipped accordingly, the people that are a lot more friendly and personal usually get a lot more tips. That of course has a lot more to do with personality then skill to do the job, but it is an ability that is hard to monetize in many other job settings. As for a reliable income, most people can get a fairly good idea of what the busy times of year are and what they can expect to take home, and while you will get bad tables, you will also get good ones and things average out fairly well. To say they have no idea how much they'll be taking home every week is to ignore a lot of historical data.

Another thing I have noticed is that tipping is one of the few opportunities consumers have of showing appreciation for good service, and to just be nice to other people. Its not that hard to see when someone is having a bad day but is still trying. Someone that gives a larger tip can make someone feel more appreciated then most managers could.

WarKitty

2010-09-07, 12:26 PM

I think this is an excellent idea. They should have different minimum wages for age categories.

Personally I wouldn't recommend it. A lower minimum wage encourages employers to hire teens instead of adults with families. Plus I know quite a number of young people who ended up working 2-3 minimum wage jobs because the college funding system is dumb around here.

pendell

2010-09-07, 12:47 PM

pendell

2010-09-07, 01:03 PM

Be Kind to Your Kitchen: We love our customers and want you to return, but seriously, asking for a completely custom dish smack in the middle of Friday night service just isn't cool. If you want to modify an existing dish, by all means, go ahead. But assuming that we accept your request, that means that someone has to prep your entire dish from scratch, meaning without fail that about 6 other orders will be late getting to the table, and nobody wants that. Please, reserve your custom requests for a night that isn't so ridiculously busy.

My wife has special dietary needs which will send her to the hospital if they are not met. We make up for the cruelty to the kitchen by showing up at the same restaurant every week with nearly the same order at the same time. Hopefully the predictability makes it easier for the kitchen.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Alarra

2010-09-07, 01:40 PM

Personally I wouldn't recommend it. A lower minimum wage encourages employers to hire teens instead of adults with families. Plus I know quite a number of young people who ended up working 2-3 minimum wage jobs because the college funding system is dumb around here.

That's true, and something I didn't think of. I was coming to this from the point of view of a restaurant owner that hires almost exclusively teens and can barely cover the cost of payroll, in an area where federal minimum wage is quite a bit higher than people actually need to live, and certainly more than most high school kids need.

lesser_minion

2010-09-07, 08:47 PM

Personally I wouldn't recommend it. A lower minimum wage encourages employers to hire teens instead of adults with families. Plus I know quite a number of young people who ended up working 2-3 minimum wage jobs because the college funding system is dumb around here.

A 'competitive' hourly rate for low-paying work in the UK is somewhere around £5.80, if not more, so the minimum wage is little more than a formality. Like most Europeans, we also tend to find the idea of working 192 hours a week to be slightly over the top.

Together, those basically make it impossible to feed a family on a minimum wage job even then.

Marillion

2010-09-07, 08:48 PM

Wow. I should have expected an argument over tipping culture to spring up, but somehow, I didn't.

I think this is an excellent idea. They should have different minimum wages for age categories.
HA HA, no. If my pay was based on my age, I would be entirely unable to even pay my basic rent, let alone for food or electricity. I barely make it as it is.

Our problem is tips seem at some locations to have as much to do with one's breast size as the actual service.
I do admit, some of our servers are *ahem* generously endowed, but they're also really good servers. :smalltongue: Also, the server who regularly walks away with the most cash is a man.

Here's a major difference then. That minimum wage is 150% or more of what non-tipped minimum wages are here. Is that minimum wage for all jobs or just the nominal average pay for a restaurant server? Because if they got paid this much here, it would be a job worth striving to keep instead of one to strive to get out of. Note that I said earlier I don't think your average server makes that much with tips. (After conversion to USD.)
My restaurant is by no means the norm, but the good servers often walk away with the equivalent of $12 an hour. The good servers, $14 or $15. Me, I get $9. :smallannoyed:

Again, the above situation would have a direct effect on the situation. And there's no way you will convince me that making the restaurant pay all servers more than they make now with tips won't increase the price of my food dramatically.
Again, my restaurant is not the norm, but we're budgeted for about a 35% food cost, which is practically unheard of. If Chef suddenly had to pay each of the servers 4 times what he does now, well, I'm pretty sure each of our dishes would have to increase drastically to even stay solvent.

It may actually cost them more money to have them there doing nothing than to send them home, but they can't just say "Ah well, slow night. Lock up, everyone. Let's shut it down early tonight before I go broke.")
That is, in fact, exactly what we do on those rare dead nights :smallbiggrin:

I'll give you an even better example. Many restaurants automatically figure in an 18% tip on larger parties (usually 8 or more). That means that no matter how shoddy your service is, I have to tip you like you gave us above average service. With little exception, this service is rarely up to par because they know they're getting a good tip on a large tab without having to put any effort into beyond taking our order and bringing out our food. Too many times I've seen it happen where once the food is delivered, we never see our server again and actually have to go find them to let them know we'd like our check.
Yeah, that doesn't really happen at my restaurant, and if it did, the offending server(s) would be harshly reprimanded, if not terminated outright. While it is true that an 18% tip is automatically affixed to large tops due to the special strain they place on the servers and the kitchen (not saying we don't love them!:smallbiggrin:), our servers will often try harder on large tables, because they're hoping for an additional 18%:smallwink:

My wife has special dietary needs which will send her to the hospital if they are not met. We make up for the cruelty to the kitchen by showing up at the same restaurant every week with nearly the same order at the same time. Hopefully the predictability makes it easier for the kitchen.

Certainly, if it's a medical necessity, by all means don't be afraid to let us know. Of course, we'd still appreciate it if you could call ahead and ask if what you need can be done, but that isn't such a big deal. The people I was talking about are the ones who call the chef out of the kitchen to say "I don't know what I want. Why don't you make something special for me?" and then proceed to have an in-depth conversation about what they want when literally every other seat in the restaurant has filled up in under 10 minutes.

WarKitty

2010-09-07, 08:55 PM

skywalker

2010-09-07, 09:15 PM

I'm with Serp on the tipping culture. Somehow every other service manages to maintain a good level of customer service without needing to rely on tips. I suspect the main reason it persists is sadly not because employers genuinely believe it will make service any better but that (in the US at least) it allows them to pay lower than minimum wage (which I think frankly makes it laughable to call it "minimum").

Establishments that pay servers below minimum wage are required to make up the difference if tips don't. Like, minimum wage is $7.25. Tipped labor can be paid as low as $2.13 an hour by the establishment, but if they make, say, $2 in tips (up to $4.13), the restaurant has to cover the extra $3.12. The reason why most people don't know this? It never comes up. Even below-average waitstaff will make above minimum wage assuming two tables that tip 10% on a $30 meal. Most servers run more tables with better service.

I disagree. Your conditions of employ set out a minimum baseline standard that is acceptable. I'm asking what is the incentive to exceed that standard? To not just be a passable food pusher but to provide excellent service, above and beyond what your "meets but does not exceed expectations" coworkers are doing?

Apparently, exceeding expectations is... expected in Australia.

Actually, there are places over here that do exactly that. There are at least two places near where I work that will close when they run out of food, regardless of what time that happens to be. I don't know how that affects the staff's pay because I don't work there, but closing because it's quiet isn't that uncommon.

Closing because you run out of food and closing because it's quiet are two different things.

Someone has to pay for slow nights - should it be the corporation with the high profits or the worker on less than minimum wage?

The restaurant business is one of the hardest to be successful in. Even chain restaurants are frequently franchises (IE, owned by individuals or small groups). Your "worker on minimum wage vs. corporation with high profits" understanding of the situation is very off-base. Also, see my previous comment about why it's never less than minimum wage.

If someone refuses to sell you alcohol or tobacco, just let it slide.

In the UK, the punishment for selling alcohol illegally -- even by mistake -- is broadly equivalent to summary execution, and certain elements of the media would prefer it if that weren't hyperbole.

As a result, making a fuss if someone refuses a sale is a really bad idea. Insulting the cashier's integrity will get you nowhere, and asking to speak to a supervisor is not going to help either (they must back up the cashier if this ever comes up, even if they think the cashier is being unreasonable).

If the cashier asks you for ID you don't have, if she thinks you've already had too much to drink, or if she thinks that you're buying alcohol for the twelve year old kids waiting outside, then just leave the alcohol behind at the till. Making a fuss will not get you anywhere.

What about calling your representative and making a fuss? I agree that you shouldn't be able to buy alcohol without ID, but assuming someone is buying alcohol for the kids outside the door? What the person does with that booze after they leave the store with it is none of the store's business, nor should the law make it the store's business. It's their alcohol, after all. It's their fault they broke the law with it.

As for tipping, I think you would find a lot of people working under the tipping system would never trade it for the normal minimum wage and doing away with the tipping system. A good wait-person can make a lot more then what a company is likely to pay for those sorts of positions normally.

One thing that is clearly seen from tipping, is that anyone can be effective and efficient at waiting and get tipped accordingly, the people that are a lot more friendly and personal usually get a lot more tips. That of course has a lot more to do with personality then skill to do the job, but it is an ability that is hard to monetize in many other job settings. As for a reliable income, most people can get a fairly good idea of what the busy times of year are and what they can expect to take home, and while you will get bad tables, you will also get good ones and things average out fairly well. To say they have no idea how much they'll be taking home every week is to ignore a lot of historical data.

A good post, I'd like to point out something about the statement I bolded, tho: Making the diner's meal a pleasant experience is the job. I don't argue that personality may come into it, but that's the job itself. I think it measures "skill to do the job" perfectly.

My restaurant is by no means the norm, but the good servers often walk away with the equivalent of $12 an hour. The good servers, $14 or $15. Me, I get $9. :smallannoyed:

Which is, you know, still well above minimum wage...

Certainly, if it's a medical necessity, by all means don't be afraid to let us know. Of course, we'd still appreciate it if you could call ahead and ask if what you need can be done, but that isn't such a big deal. The people I was talking about are the ones who call the chef out of the kitchen to say "I don't know what I want. Why don't you make something special for me?" and then proceed to have an in-depth conversation about what they want when literally every other seat in the restaurant has filled up in under 10 minutes.

Please don't pick a fight with those of us who have a medical necessity over a completely different situation. Specificity really never hurt anyone...

Marillion

2010-09-07, 09:35 PM

The thing with eliminating tips is you wouldn't *actually* be spending more, assuming you're a reasonably tipper. Say you generally tip 15%. Well if the prices increase by 15%, but you aren't tipping anymore, you're still spending the same amount right?
But prices wouldn't increase by 15%. Without actually doing the math for my particular restaurant, I'd hazard a guess that prices would increase by 30%, and that's assuming that servers are only paid minimum.

Which is, you know, still well above minimum wage...
I'm well aware. And considering that I'm not even a line cook (yet) that's actually more than fair for the work I do. It just annoys me sometimes when the servers whine "I only made a hundred tonight" when my take per night is around $60. A lousy lot of whiny babies, they are :smalltongue:

Please don't pick a fight with those of us who have a medical necessity over a completely different situation. Specificity really never hurt anyone...
Fair enough, my bad.

Zeb The Troll

2010-09-07, 11:23 PM

Hey, if you come to the Meet-up, you can judge our services for yourself :smalltongue: And if you forget and give someone your normal tip rate, I'm sure you'll make their day :smallwink:Let's hope, eh? :smallcool:

*makes sure to pack plenty of "How did I do?" cards*

Serpentine

2010-09-07, 11:42 PM

I think this is an excellent idea. They should have different minimum wages for age categories.I disagree. It's pure ageism.
From what I've gathered, things do cost a lot more there then in the US though.How does that go against what I ws saying? :smallconfused: If food in the US already costs more with tips, than food in Australia does without tips, then that is evidence against the claim that food prices will be oh noes through the roof! as a consequence of no tipping culture.

I know when you mentioned what a librarian makes (think it was another thread) it seemed really high for that sort of job, unless it was sort of a head/management sort of librarian position.I'm well aware that my job is exceptional. But I'm not talking about my job.

*from your other post... I have no idea what casual loading is.A casual employee gets an extra percentage of their base wage on top to make up for not having all the benefits of being a permanent employee. I was actually given the option to become permanent (several months after they were meant to, but my boss forgot), but I chose to stick with the extra casual pay.

One thing that is clearly seen from tipping, is that anyone can be effective and efficient at waiting and get tipped accordingly, the people that are a lot more friendly and personal usually get a lot more tips. That of course has a lot more to do with personality then skill to do the job, but it is an ability that is hard to monetize in many other job settings. As for a reliable income, most people can get a fairly good idea of what the busy times of year are and what they can expect to take home, and while you will get bad tables, you will also get good ones and things average out fairly well. To say they have no idea how much they'll be taking home every week is to ignore a lot of historical data.This has been used repeatedly: "tipping makes sure the workers do their job well. If we didn't tip, they'd all be crap!" As Australia does not have a tipping culture, yet we still have excellent service, this claim just doesn't pan out. "The American workforce is so lacklustre and has such a dismal work ethic that they need every possible incentive we can invent just to get decent service" might be more accurate, but it's hardly a universal endorsement of the system.

Another thing I have noticed is that tipping is one of the few opportunities consumers have of showing appreciation for good service, and to just be nice to other people. Its not that hard to see when someone is having a bad day but is still trying. Someone that gives a larger tip can make someone feel more appreciated then most managers could.A smile and a kind word can go a long way. Of course, in any case, we do still have the option of giving a small tip if we want to. We can just do so in the knowledge that they're not relying on our good will to pay their bills.

I recently read an article in Reader's Digest about "Things waitstaff want you to know" or somesuch. To segway from the above, one person said that it meant a lot for a customer to get and use the waiters name, and especially for them to specifically ask for that waiter next time. Thoughts?
Another one was that, if you don't like your meal, you shouldn't "labour through it like a martyr" (or something like that) and then complain at the end, but rather say at the start that you don't like it and order something else. How would you lot react to that?
Personally, with the people I tend to eat out with, if I just didn't like something (as opposed to it being bad), I'd probably just end up swapping with someone.

Pyrian

2010-09-07, 11:47 PM

...Then there was the time I ordered salmon, they brought me beef, everyone had been served, so I just thought, whatever, and ate the beef. Then the server came out asking who'd ordered the salmon, I raised my hand, and she asked me about the beef she'd accidentally given me, I just kind of shrugged and said it was good. :smallbiggrin: Then I got a dirty look, but ate the salmon, too. :smallamused:

RabbitHoleLost

2010-09-07, 11:57 PM

Philistine

2010-09-08, 01:13 AM

I have to LOL at at the claims that "most" employees do above average work, when the fact is that by definition, many employees must be below average. It follows that if the penalty for being below average is termination of employment, virtually every employer in the world should be seeing 25-30% turnover on a bimonthly - at most semi-annual - basis.

How does that go against what I ws saying? :smallconfused: If food in the US already costs more with tips, than food in Australia does without tips, then that is evidence against the claim that food prices will be oh noes through the roof! as a consequence of no tipping culture.
Not to put words into Erloas's mouth, but that's the exact opposite of what I understood him to be saying. To wit: despite the official exchange rate - which shows the two currencies as nearly equivalent - prices in Australia are significantly higher than for comparable items in the US. His mention of gaming-stuffs supports this as well - back in my MMO-playing days, I recall Aussie guildmates complaining of software prices running more than 50% higher than in the US.

I'm well aware that my job is exceptional. But I'm not talking about my job.
Employees of the local/municipal public library system in this area (which is, admittedly, a low cost-of-living part of the US) start at around US$10 per hour. Less, for some part-time workers. The pay scale you described earlier sounds more like administrator pay here - and probably "Administrator with a PhD in Library Science." This goes to the same point as the preceding, if indirectly: things in Australia simply cost more, a fact which is reflected by pay inflation.

A casual employee gets an extra percentage of their base wage on top to make up for not having all the benefits of being a permanent employee. I was actually given the option to become permanent (several months after they were meant to, but my boss forgot), but I chose to stick with the extra casual pay.
I... don't believe anything like that exists in the US. That's why regular, full-time jobs are so nice - and also why certain employers have in the past demonstrated a marked preference for hiring two employees to cover 20 hours/week apiece rather than a single employee to cover 40 hours/week (and who would then have to be paid benefits).

This has been used repeatedly: "tipping makes sure the workers do their job well. If we didn't tip, they'd all be crap!" As Australia does not have a tipping culture, yet we still have excellent service, this claim just doesn't pan out.
An alternative possibility, which has not yet been explored, is that you simply have a much, much, much lower standard of what constitutes "excellent service." :smalltongue:

Zeb The Troll

2010-09-08, 01:26 AM

An alternative possibility, which has not yet been explored, is that you simply have a much, much, much lower standard of what constitutes "excellent service." :smalltongue:Not that I'm saying Australians have what I would consider bad or mediocre service, but that's a good point. Like Alarra said earlier, what is considered "good" here on our east coast (or at least Maryland, DC, and Virginia) would be considered "acceptable" at best in the midwest.

Serpentine

2010-09-08, 01:47 AM

I have considered that as a possibility, but really, to get any better than I've already experienced would just about feel like bowing and scraping. If that's what you're after, I'm happy enough without it.
Not to put words into Erloas's mouth, but that's the exact opposite of what I understood him to be saying. To wit: despite the official exchange rate - which shows the two currencies as nearly equivalent - prices in Australia are significantly higher than for comparable items in the US. His mention of gaming-stuffs supports this as well - back in my MMO-playing days, I recall Aussie guildmates complaining of software prices running more than 50% higher than in the US.Ah yes, I misread. Thought it was an odd thing to say. But the gaming stuff has nothing to do with it, at all. We have to import everything. That's why it's more expensive *shrug*
Those are big economic things, anyway. I find it hard to believe merely not having an income based on customer generosity/guilt/social pressure would have any great impact on prices - especially when, as pointed out, even if you're paying more for the meal, you'll be paying less on tips.

New question: if tips are meant to be an encouragement and reward for beyond-expectation service and food, why is it automatically factored into bills and frowned upon to not tip? If something becomes expected, nay required, it is no longer a bonus, but an entitlement.

Lioness

2010-09-08, 02:48 AM

I recently read an article in Reader's Digest about "Things waitstaff want you to know" or somesuch. To segway from the above, one person said that it meant a lot for a customer to get and use the waiters name, and especially for them to specifically ask for that waiter next time. Thoughts?

As an ordinary server, who wears a name tag, it creeps me out a little when customers use my name. I mean, I know it's there so they know who we are and feel like they have a more personal relationship, but the fact is, they don't. There are a couple of customers (maybe around 5-6) who I'll see regularly enough to be comfortable with them saying "Hi, Lioness, how are you today?" when I serve them. But if it's some random guy I've never seen before, then it's a bit too personal for my liking. And it definitely confuses me "...huh? How'd you know my na-Oh right, nametag :smallannoyed:"

lesser_minion

2010-09-08, 03:44 AM

What about calling your representative and making a fuss? I agree that you shouldn't be able to buy alcohol without ID, but assuming someone is buying alcohol for the kids outside the door? What the person does with that booze after they leave the store with it is none of the store's business, nor should the law make it the store's business. It's their alcohol, after all. It's their fault they broke the law with it.

It might be totally ineffective, but the age restriction is supposed to protect people. I don't see how asking people to participate in an act that is blatantly against the law, because "it's none of their business" serves that purpose in the slightest.

Lioness

2010-09-08, 05:37 AM

It might be totally ineffective, but the age restriction is supposed to protect people. I don't see how asking people to participate in an act that is blatantly against the law, because "it's none of their business" serves that purpose in the slightest.

I think perhaps the example used was extreme. But we often have 18 year olds buy alcohol for their younger (16-17y.o.) friends. If there are younger friends with the buyer, and the clerk believes that they 18 year old is buying alcohol for them (younger ones helping them choose, etc., talking about a party they're going to later), then it's common to refuse them purchase.

Heck, if a parent who doesn't look incredibly responsible is in a grog shop with their teenage child, the clerk will often double check that the alcohol isn't for the child.

WarKitty

2010-09-08, 07:19 AM

I think perhaps the example used was extreme. But we often have 18 year olds buy alcohol for their younger (16-17y.o.) friends. If there are younger friends with the buyer, and the clerk believes that they 18 year old is buying alcohol for them (younger ones helping them choose, etc., talking about a party they're going to later), then it's common to refuse them purchase.

Heck, if a parent who doesn't look incredibly responsible is in a grog shop with their teenage child, the clerk will often double check that the alcohol isn't for the child.

This can have amusing results when I'm out looking at booze with my dad and we're discussing what to get (where it's obvious he's getting it for me to share). I'm one of those that looks ~5 years younger than I am. :smallbiggrin:

Don Julio Anejo

2010-09-08, 07:31 AM

Canada is weird in this regard. You can get 20 year old Indian clerks who won't even bother to look at the ID when you're obviously 15 and you can get 50 year old "lunchlady" types who will take two pieces of ID, scan both in a special little scanner they have and throw a hissy fit with threats to call the cops if a single letter doesn't match when ther person is 40 and has graying hair.

The cops? As long as you're not visibly drinking it out in the street and swearing at passing by cars, they don't care. This obviously doesn't apply if Canada just won the Olympic gold or the city's team got past 2nd round in the playoffs.

Phaedra

2010-09-08, 08:02 AM

Establishments that pay servers below minimum wage are required to make up the difference if tips don't. Like, minimum wage is $7.25. Tipped labor can be paid as low as $2.13 an hour by the establishment, but if they make, say, $2 in tips (up to $4.13), the restaurant has to cover the extra $3.12. The reason why most people don't know this? It never comes up. Even below-average waitstaff will make above minimum wage assuming two tables that tip 10% on a $30 meal. Most servers run more tables with better service.

Is this the case in every state (Rabbit's experience would suggest not)? If so, ok, but I still think it should be the company paying the employee, not the guest.

The restaurant business is one of the hardest to be successful in. Even chain restaurants are frequently franchises (IE, owned by individuals or small groups). Your "worker on minimum wage vs. corporation with high profits" understanding of the situation is very off-base. Also, see my previous comment about why it's never less than minimum wage.

I shall bow to your superior knowledge of restaurants in the US, but a chain is a chain over here. Even where it's a small personal concern, the restaurant is the company - it should have insurance and, if it's incorporated (and you'd hope it would be, it's so simple to do), be protected from too much liability by the share limitation system over here. They should always be more able to shoulder risk than their employees.

What about calling your representative and making a fuss? I agree that you shouldn't be able to buy alcohol without ID, but assuming someone is buying alcohol for the kids outside the door? What the person does with that booze after they leave the store with it is none of the store's business, nor should the law make it the store's business. It's their alcohol, after all. It's their fault they broke the law with it.

Apart from the protection aspect previously pointed out, it's far easier to police stores than check individuals. I suppose you could call your MP about it if you wanted, but I think they'd be more interested in stopping underage drinking than the fact you had to get ID/walk to a different store to buy alcohol.

I'm beginning to think I do just have a different standard of good - I just want my food to turn up, fairly quickly and to be cooked well. I don't care what my server's name is (and often I have more than one anyway, you just grab whoever's passing), I don't need them to smile or ask about my day, it's not the beginning of a beautiful friendship. I just want some food.

WarKitty

2010-09-08, 09:05 AM

I'm beginning to think I do just have a different standard of good - I just want my food to turn up, fairly quickly and to be cooked well. I don't care what my server's name is (and often I have more than one anyway, you just grab whoever's passing), I don't need them to smile or ask about my day, it's not the beginning of a beautiful friendship. I just want some food.

That's actually something very interesting I've noticed. I have friends that are just ecstatic when they get a chatty server that asks them about their day and their kids and whatnot. Me? Just get me my food and be polite about it, if I'm by myself I probably *want* to be by myself; if I'm with friends I want to talk to them.

Just interesting, as I see how it could be difficult from a server's perspective.

Lioness

2010-09-08, 09:09 AM

Just interesting, as I see how it could be difficult from a server's perspective.

As a server, not a waitress, but a deli server, I usually just try to be polite and friendly. Often, if a customer initiates conversation, then I figure they want to talk a bit. If they're really friendly and open as well, I'll say "How has your day been" or something similar. If a customer barely acknowledges me, then I get them their ham and good riddance.

Regular customers are different...there's this one lady who always comes in late at night to get a cheap chicken. I've seen her at least once a week every week I've been working, so I've gotten to know her pretty well. She recently had a stroke :(, but still comes shopping.

Syka

2010-09-08, 09:20 AM

On the alcohol- it might not be fair, but if we suspect a person above drinking age is buying alcohol for someone below drinking age, we can't sell it. At the very least, we have to check with a manager. We CAN get in trouble. Definitely not fair.

Like, I had a lady come up once with an arm full of groceries and her son was carrying the alcohol. When I asked for ID, she looked mortified that she'd forgotten that he wasn't even supposed to be carrying it, lol. It definitely wasn't a situation where I thought she'd be sharing it, though.

Whenever I get a group of young people with one buying alcohol, I card every. single. person. No exceptions. Because we can get in deep doo doo for selling alcohol to someone suspected of sharing it. Etc.

It blows, but I'd rather deny a sale than lose my job.

Also:

If you look like you are under 40, and don't have ID, you ain't gettin' jack. Well, the age is really more like "Under 30" even though we are supposed to go with 40. If I know that you are 25+ because I've seen your ID so much, I MIGHT let it slide. But if you are 20 or less and trying to buy cigs, no go. I might now you, but- once again- I can get in deep doo doo if there is a mystery shopper in the store. At the beach? Still need ID. I've known you since we were 5? Still need ID. I've literally ID'ed people I've known my whole life.

But, once again, it's better than risking my job.

WarKitty

2010-09-08, 09:33 AM

Personally I think the U.S. is a bit silly with drinking laws - it's not like we've reduced it a whole lot.

But I understand and try not to fuss at the servers. Although it's annoying when they spend forever checking and cross-checking your ID to be sure it's not fake (I look like I'm 16 or so).

Syka

2010-09-08, 09:35 AM

Pyrian

2010-09-08, 09:36 AM

As an ordinary server, who wears a name tag, it creeps me out a little when customers use my name."I was staring at your chest, and couldn't help noticing that your name is..." :smallcool:

Is this the case in every state (Rabbit's experience would suggest not)?I think they're both correct, in a manner of speaking. There's a federal minimum wage law, and it's supposed to be enforced if you don't get enough tips to cover it. But that clause (and similar clauses in state minimum wage laws) are supposedly universally ignored. They're not enforced and they're virtually unenforceable (how do you prove it in a court of law, given that there's no receipt system for tips?).

Lioness

2010-09-08, 09:40 AM

"I was staring at your chest, and couldn't help noticing that your name is..." :smallcool:

Hah. Pretty much.

There was one old guy who was really creepy...
"Hey sir, what would you like?"
*he looks at 20-something y.o. girl next to him* "I'd like a piece of her"
"Um...I can't serve her. You need to pick something from the cabinet"
And he gets all strange, and gets some ham. And then he grabbed my hand when I gave him the ham and said "What are you doing after work? We should have a drink together"
At that point I was like, "Uh, no. Can't do that. Have a nice day" and ran away.

Scary...don't do that to your servers, people.

Syka

2010-09-08, 09:50 AM

Ok, at least in Florida, for the person who sells the alcohol you can face up to 60 days in jail and a $500 fine. You will also likely lose your job, because the company is usually fined, AND loses the alcohol license.

WarKitty

2010-09-08, 09:51 AM

It is annoying. But you have to understand our position where we are risking our jobs, a HUGE fine, and possible jail time (if I'm not mistaken) for selling alcohol to a minor. The penalty is enormous. I'll look up the exact punishment.

Mostly I'd do away with the rules (at least in my area) that mean a server can be responsible if they pass a fake ID. I know they're concerned, but it really does make it in their best interest often to refuse someone who looks underage even if they *do* have a proper ID.

There was one old guy who was really creepy...
"Hey sir, what would you like?"
*he looks at 20-something y.o. girl next to him* "I'd like a piece of her"
"Um...I can't serve her. You need to pick something from the cabinet"
And he gets all strange, and gets some ham. And then he grabbed my hand when I gave him the ham and said "What are you doing after work? We should have a drink together"
At that point I was like, "Uh, no. Can't do that. Have a nice day" and ran away.

Scary...don't do that to your servers, people.

OMG that was my complaint about working at WalMart. There was this one dude that had been coming in regularly for 2 years, and making crude remarks to the female staff. Seriously, I'd tell someone like that to stay out of the store.

Edit: It gets better as someone whose frequent preferred presenting gender doesn't match the one listed on my ID...

JediSoth

2010-09-08, 09:57 AM

I'm reminded of the immortal words of Randall from Clerks: "This job would be great if it wasn't for the <expletive deleted> customers."

That sentence pretty much sums up how I felt about working in both fast food AND retail. Thank goodness those days are behind me.

Still, I try to be nice to retail employees and servers, especially if I think they're genuinely trying to be helpful. I tip an average of 20% based on the price BEFORE discounts. I only get surly when they REALLY screw up, like when a restaurant has my name on the book for a reservation, but has no table for my group 30 minutes beyond the time for which I made the reservation, or if a fast food joint (OK, it was Arby's) fails to tell me they ran out of roast beef during dinner hour and has me wait 45 minutes for my food with no explanation, and things like that. I've learned to write very eloquent nasty letters to management/corporate offices.

I still deal with customers in my current job and have had to learn how to say "No" in a way that makes them think it's their idea. Usually this involves me explaining to them that their request will add additional time (on the order of weeks) and money (on the order of hundreds to thousands of dollars) onto their project. If they can't get something for nothing, they'll usually back down.

Syka

2010-09-08, 10:03 AM

I know the feeling on the creepy customer. We have one guy who comes in all the time and has hit on every single woman who works in the store. He even proposed to one of the (happily married) managers.

He shifted on to me at one point, and would take to following me around and touching me. He'd put his hand on my shoulder or lower back and stuff. :smalleek: He FINALLY got the picture when I'd ALWAYS move away from him if I was out from behind the register, or just stay behind the register (and out of arms reach!) if he came in while I wasn't on the floor. My manager said if I ever have a problem again to call them up and they'll get him out of the store.*

I'm pretty sure he's harmless, though, and I haven't had a problem since. It helps that I don't work much now and thus don't see him.

But DON'T TOUCH A SERVICE EMPLOYEE. Or anyone, really, who hasn't invited it. It's creepy and just...ugh.

The looks I got from the old guys when I worked at a video store when I was 18-19 were almost as bad. We had an adult section, so when a 50+ man comes up with "Barely Legal 17" and then leers...ewww. Even worse because we usually worked alone.

*Hilarious play on this: Oz comes in to the store on occasion when he gets off work before me and we won't be hanging out afterwards. He'll follow me while I'm straightening the store or look at products near the register when I ring people up. Most of my managers and coworkers know him.

Well, I've got a new manager. When he came to see me a couple weeks ago, when he'd wander off she'd come up and go "Is anyone bothering you?" and I was so confused what she meant. After the second time she motioned to him. I busted up laughing and had to explain that was my boyfriend. XD At least she's vigilant and cares about us. :smallsmile: It wasn't unreasonable, either, given the aforementioned creeper.