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Saya
2010-09-03, 11:21 PM
(A miserable pile of secrets!)

In all seriousness, what counts as a mount in 3.5? I can't find any ruling on this...

Drakevarg
2010-09-03, 11:23 PM
(A miserable pile of secrets!)

In all seriousness, what counts as a mount in 3.5? I can't find any ruling on this...

Probably "anything strong enough to support your weight that you can convince the DM to let you have as a mount."

Flickerdart
2010-09-03, 11:30 PM
Presumably, something shaped like a horse/dragon/centaur. A black pudding is not suitable as a mount. A xorn is not suitable as a mount. A treant is not suitable as a mount.

Saya
2010-09-03, 11:31 PM
Presumably, something shaped like a horse/dragon/centaur. A black pudding is not suitable as a mount. A xorn is not suitable as a mount. A treant is not suitable as a mount.


Actually, I think I once read about this one build where the character rides around on oozes, specifically inside a gelatinous cube :/

Crasical
2010-09-03, 11:38 PM
I think the DMG ruling is 'Anything that is Willing and Able'. A camel is an example of both, a Tiger is able but not willing, an ogre might be willing but isn't quite able.

It's up to DM to decide if it's a fitting mount or not. It has to be at least 1 size category larger than the rider though. So a human couldn't use a riding dog, but a halfling could.

Unrelated: What's a good mount for a pygmy (Jungle Halfling)? I'm thinking Baboon.

big teej
2010-09-03, 11:38 PM
well......

(possibly irrelevant story bout an awesome mount I got in a solo campaign)

well... if anyone expresseses the slightest interest in this idea to use in their games or whatever I'll expand, but BASICALLY imagine for me, if you will, a monitor lizard, such as a kommodo dragon. now imagine it's somewhere around the size of a rhinocerous.... now.... imagine it being MADE OUT OF METAL.... and it has gouts of flame shooting from its neck and just behind its claws (think nightmare, but reptillian) AND in a cribbed from drizzt completely original idea. it becomes a small iddy biddy roughly lizard shaped lump of metal on command, and springs for on command as well.

Eldariel
2010-09-03, 11:39 PM
Actually, I think I once read about this one build where the character rides around on oozes, specifically inside a gelatinous cube :/

There's the Ooze-riding saddle too.

Tael
2010-09-03, 11:49 PM
I think the DMG ruling is 'Anything that is Willing and Able'. A camel is an example of both, a Tiger is able but not willing, an ogre might be willing but isn't quite able.

It's up to DM to decide if it's a fitting mount or not. It has to be at least 1 size category larger than the rider though. So a human couldn't use a riding dog, but a halfling could.

Unrelated: What's a good mount for a pygmy (Jungle Halfling)? I'm thinking Baboon.

Except, a trained tiger would be willing, and an ogre is certainly able. I really don't follow your logic.

Really, anything one size category larger than you can be a mount by the rules. The halfling bard can ride on top of the human fighter, the human fighter can ride on his pet tiger, the tiger can ride on top of an elephant, which can ride on top of a Purple Worm, which can ride on the effing Tarrasque. And I believe all at the same time.

Jane_Smith
2010-09-03, 11:51 PM
Technqiually some things your size can carry you... >.> -rides a dwarf into battle- ONWARDS TO VICTORY!

Jack Zander
2010-09-03, 11:53 PM
The halfling bard can ride on top of the human fighter, the human fighter can ride on his pet tiger, the tiger can ride on top of an elephant, which can ride on top of a Purple Worm, which can ride on the effing Tarrasque. And I believe all at the same time.

Best. Adventurers. Ever.

Gensh
2010-09-04, 12:17 AM
Except, a trained tiger would be willing, and an ogre is certainly able. I really don't follow your logic.

Really, anything one size category larger than you can be a mount by the rules. The halfling bard can ride on top of the human fighter, the human fighter can ride on his pet tiger, the tiger can ride on top of an elephant, which can ride on top of a Purple Worm, which can ride on the effing Tarrasque. And I believe all at the same time.

Actually, I believe that's exactly what the DMG says, though I can't check at the moment. So basically, they don't want you riding bipeds and would prefer you ride quadrupeds. And not anything that would be of any use in combat. And if it can fly, it's considered 4 levels higher for the purposes of class abilities and leadership.

Crasical
2010-09-04, 12:37 AM
Except, a trained tiger would be willing, and an ogre is certainly able. I really don't follow your logic.

S'not MY logic. It's what the DMG says.

Honestly, if you can get your DM to approve your halfling/Gnome riding the party fighter, go for it. Take lots of ranks in Ride and use Mounted Combat to give your 'mount' another chance to dodge attacks. It'll be funny.

Eldariel
2010-09-04, 01:08 AM
Really, anything one size category larger than you can be a mount by the rules. The halfling bard can ride on top of the human fighter, the human fighter can ride on his pet tiger, the tiger can ride on top of an elephant, which can ride on top of a Purple Worm, which can ride on the effing Tarrasque. And I believe all at the same time.

Or Whisper Gnome Wizard on Human Artificer on Druid in Megaraptor-form on Druid's Tyrannosaur companion on the Giant Size'd Clericzilla :smallbiggrin:

FelixG
2010-09-04, 01:11 AM
Best. Adventurers. Ever.

The only thing that could stop these Epic adventurers....would be the DMs store of books he would begin to throw.

ffone
2010-09-04, 01:46 AM
Really, anything one size category larger than you can be a mount by the rules. The halfling bard can ride on top of the human fighter, the human fighter can ride on his pet tiger, the tiger can ride on top of an elephant, which can ride on top of a Purple Worm, which can ride on the effing Tarrasque. And I believe all at the same time.

Don't forget the Grig perched on the Halfling.

Curmudgeon
2010-09-04, 01:50 AM
The mounted combat rules assume the mount is subservient to the rider, and doesn't have independent initiative. That pretty much chucks the idea of riding another PC out the door.

AslanCross
2010-09-04, 02:48 AM
Except, a trained tiger would be willing, and an ogre is certainly able. I really don't follow your logic.


It's a quote from the DMG section on mounts.

A medium-sized mount can probably piggy-back on an ogre, but it's not going to be a safe and effective without a special saddle.

bokodasu
2010-09-04, 08:18 AM
Really, anything one size category larger than you can be a mount by the rules. The halfling bard can ride on top of the human fighter, the human fighter can ride on his pet tiger, the tiger can ride on top of an elephant, which can ride on top of a Purple Worm, which can ride on the effing Tarrasque. And I believe all at the same time.

While I would pay money to see this, it's not quite what the rules say. The mount should be at least one size larger, no more than -3CR to the rider, and must be able and willing to carry its rider in a typical fashion. (DMG p204). There are more restrictions for flying mounts. And it's all subject to DM's ruling anyway.

But if you can train a Tarrasque as a mount, and get an appropriate purple worm-shaped saddle, I'd say go for it.

(In a non-D&D game I played, we were allowed to have a companion or a super-powerful mount. My DM let me have both, in the form of a druid who was permanently wildshaped into a warhorse.)

The Dark Fiddler
2010-09-04, 08:30 AM
The mounted combat rules assume the mount is subservient to the rider, and doesn't have independent initiative. That pretty much chucks the idea of riding another PC out the door.

I dunno, with a few adjustments, it could work.

For example, you can't do that thing (it's early in the morning, forgive my poor memory) that lets you substitute a ride check for your mount's AC, and instead of it moving on your initiative, the mount/PC moves on their own initiative.

I'd also give a penalty for riding humanoids, and perhaps penalties to the mount/PC as well, personally, but that's just me...

Foryn Gilnith
2010-09-04, 08:41 AM
I'd also give a penalty for riding humanoids


If you attempt to ride a creature that is ill suited as a mount, you take a -5 penalty on your Ride checks.

Would this do?

Curmudgeon
2010-09-04, 09:30 AM
For example, you can't do that thing (it's early in the morning, forgive my poor memory) that lets you substitute a ride check for your mount's AC, and instead of it moving on your initiative, the mount/PC moves on their own initiative.
Here's what the rules require:
Your mount acts on your initiative count as you direct it. You move at its speed, but the mount uses its action to move. So if you're using a humanoid as a mount, it isn't allowed to act on its own initiative.

Snake-Aes
2010-09-04, 09:42 AM
Here's what the rules require: So if you're using a humanoid as a mount, it isn't allowed to act on its own initiative.

So the halfling with add and initiative +16 gets to ride the dumb fighter with initiative -3 and put both at the halfling's initiative!

brb, redesigning our rogue to be a halfling so he can ride me.

Khatoblepas
2010-09-04, 09:44 AM
Here's what the rules require: So if you're using a humanoid as a mount, it isn't allowed to act on its own initiative.

Excellent! This means that only one party member needs to have high initiative (the Jermalaine rogue cohort with Improved Initiative as all his feats), and the rest of the party (various shapes and sizes of druids and psions) can act on the rogue's initiative. It's a tower of hanoi spellcasting tower, and if anyone attacks anyone but the cohort, each can make a ride check to negate the hit on the mount!

So long as he's moving you one move action worth of actions, you can use the other action to cast a spell.

Prime32
2010-09-04, 09:46 AM
There are rules somewhere that say your mount has to be at least one size category larger than you.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-09-04, 09:49 AM
What is it someone did once... halfling with a human Monk mount. Light enough to be a light load, and the monk has speed bonuses. He could also 'push' the monk to run even faster.

balistafreak
2010-09-04, 09:51 AM
brb, redesigning our rogue to be a halfling so he can ride me.

:smalleek:

Oh wait, we're talking about saddles.

FelixG
2010-09-04, 09:53 AM
So the halfling with add and initiative +16 gets to ride the dumb fighter with initiative -3 and put both at the halfling's initiative!

brb, redesigning our rogue to be a halfling so he can ride me.

http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/8/19/633862850764895315-Tucker.jpg

Greenish
2010-09-04, 09:57 AM
What is it someone did once... halfling with a human Monk mount. Light enough to be a light load, and the monk has speed bonuses. He could also 'push' the monk to run even faster.What I've been planning to use: have the monk on the front of a palanquin, and have a Floating Disk holding up the other end.

Kobold-Bard
2010-09-04, 10:03 AM
1 size category larger than you.

CR no higher than your ECL-3.

Able to carry you (you are within it's max load and generally it needs to be corporeal).

Either willing to carry you or manipulated into doing so via Diplomacy, Intimidate, Handle Animal or Magic.

And to whoeve said it: there is an amulet (Arms & Equipment Guide) that makes you immune to gelatinous cube ooze and let's you control it's movements as a mount.

Tael
2010-09-04, 10:06 AM
As to all the "must carry you in a reasonable fashion" stuff, simply take a -5 to your ride check.

I had an arena team once, it consisted of a druids and 2 wizard. The druid wildshaped into a bat, and had a bat companion, while the halfling wizards would ride on top of them. So much fun.

Zaydos
2010-09-04, 10:10 AM
One of the last 3.0 Dragon Magazines had an article all about mounts. It even had a table that listed the number of riders of each size category that a mount of any given size category could carry. Bipeds can carry half as many people as a quadruped (horse can carry 2, ogre 1) and need a special saddle. Unfortunately it also had suggested rules for Intelligent mounts and PC mounts that required the mount and rider both to have any mounted combat feats that would be used and them to delay till they were the same initiative. When a PC is riding a PC I use the latter but not the former. When a PC is riding a cohort I use the PCs initiative and PCs mounted combat feats.

Also dwarves are known to ride ponies (medium) what gives?

herrhauptmann
2010-09-04, 02:05 PM
Also dwarves are known to ride ponies (medium) what gives?

Hold over from 2nd ed when dwarves were small sized?

Zaydos
2010-09-04, 02:18 PM
Hold over from 2nd ed when dwarves were small sized?

Dwarves were medium sized as players in basic and 2e too (halflings were restricted on weapons due to small size, dwarves were not), although the 2e MM lists them as Small to Medium (with mountain dwarves who are a few inches taller being Medium; then again size categories really meant a loss less in 2e). I think they did fix that in 3.5 so that now they ride horses, but I really think it comes from The Hobbit (the dwarves and Bilbo all had ponies till they got stolen by the goblins of the Misty Mountains).

Kobold-Bard
2010-09-04, 02:21 PM
Because Dwarves are short and it's fun to make fun of them.

Until they bite you in the crotch :smallwink:

big teej
2010-09-04, 11:19 PM
Because Dwarves are short and it's fun to make fun of them.

Until they bite you in the crotch :smallwink:

My dwarf knight has indeed headbudded his compainions (and jumped up NPCs) in their important bits

but he typically makes greater use of his iron shod boots and their effects on one's shin.:smallbiggrin:

Arbitrarity
2010-09-04, 11:30 PM
brb, redesigning our rogue to be a halfling so he can ride me.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090909030407/left4dead/images/c/c1/Jockey.png

Tetsubo 57
2010-09-05, 07:09 AM
I've never understood why a small humanoid can't ride a medium or large humanoid as a mount. It worked for Master Blaster. :)

I mean, dragons are allowed. So the fact that they are sapient isn't an issue. Or that they have hands and can use magic items. So, what is the reasoning behind this idea?

Snake-Aes
2010-09-05, 07:21 AM
I've never understood why a small humanoid can't ride a medium or large humanoid as a mount. It worked for Master Blaster. :)

I mean, dragons are allowed. So the fact that they are sapient isn't an issue. Or that they have hands and can use magic items. So, what is the reasoning behind this idea?

There isn't any really. The only big change is whether or not you use ride checks to direct it. In the case of a smart mount, you can opt not to use ride checks to move it around(you'd also lose the ride-check-as-ac), but still benefit from the mount doing its moves on your behalf.

Like
Big Dumb Fighter.
wizard casts enlarge person on him
rogue sits on his especially-prepared backpack-saddle.
BDF charges. Rogue full attacks.
Works especially well with island of blades...

Flickerdart
2010-09-05, 09:28 AM
BDF charges. Rogue full attacks.
Works especially well with island of blades...
Except not, since it's spelled out quite clearly in the mounted combat rules that you cannot full attack after your mount has moved in the round.

Ravens_cry
2010-09-05, 09:48 AM
A mount . . . is anything one size category larger then you your DM will let you put a saddle on. Unsuitable shapes like humanoid are taken care of by a -5 to ride checks. Ever see a kid ride on someone's shoulders? Now add a saddle.

Snake-Aes
2010-09-05, 10:07 AM
Except not, since it's spelled out quite clearly in the mounted combat rules that you cannot full attack after your mount has moved in the round.

Eh, change to ranged. Mr wizard is being ridden by the group's gnome scout.

dgnslyr
2010-09-05, 12:28 PM
Actually, I think I once read about this one build where the character rides around on oozes, specifically inside a gelatinous cube :/

I think it was a gelatinous cube-riding paladin, with an acid-breathing shark riding paladin inside the cube. Both have some way to deal with acid damage, obviously.

Gensh
2010-09-05, 01:38 PM
I think it was a gelatinous cube-riding paladin, with an acid-breathing shark riding paladin inside the cube. Both have some way to deal with acid damage, obviously.

If I'm not mistaken, the awakened dire shark was the paladin.

dgnslyr
2010-09-05, 05:18 PM
If I'm not mistaken, the awakened dire shark was the paladin.

I distinctly remember the post mention a gelatinous cube-riding paladin, and an acid breathing shark-riding paladin, one being the cohort of the other. Of course, a paladin sharks would be awesome, though I wonder if it would have the necessary charisma to use the paladin abilities.

Edit: Genzodus, I think I found your awakened dire shark (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdVQv5_4qxs&feature=player_embedded). It's definitely not a Paladin of Honor, though.

Gensh
2010-09-05, 05:41 PM
I distinctly remember the post mention a gelatinous cube-riding paladin, and an acid breathing shark-riding paladin, one being the cohort of the other. Of course, a paladin sharks would be awesome, though I wonder if it would have the necessary charisma to use the paladin abilities.

Edit: Genzodus, I think I found your awakened dire shark (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdVQv5_4qxs&feature=player_embedded). It's definitely not a Paladin of Honor, though.

We were both right, actually. Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140009&highlight=shark+paladin&page=4)'s the thread in question. And I thought being a paladin of slaughter was just understood. I mean, what else would the shark swimming around in living acid be?

dgnslyr
2010-09-05, 05:45 PM
We were both right, actually. Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140009&highlight=shark+paladin&page=4)'s the thread in question. And I thought being a paladin of slaughter was just understood. I mean, what else would the shark swimming around in living acid be?

Thank you for the link, my life is once again happy, for the moment, anyway.

Fitz10019
2010-09-06, 01:31 AM
BDF charges. Rogue full attacks.


If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack. Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can’t make a full attack. (source (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#mountedCombat))

That doesn't even work with a traditional mount.

Hague
2010-09-06, 01:34 AM
You can indeed ride mostly anything within reason. Also, I'm fairly certain that there's some rules somewhere that state that intelligent mounts (Int 3+) have their own initiative in the Monster Manual but either the mount or the rider delay to match each other's initiative.

FelixG
2010-09-06, 04:57 AM
That doesn't even work with a traditional mount.

So fighter charges makes his attack, rogue hits with lance while riding on fighters back? :P

Find a way to get the fighter Pounce! quick!

Fitz10019
2010-09-06, 05:16 AM
So fighter charges makes his attack, rogue hits with lance while riding on fighters back? :P

Find a way to get the fighter Pounce! quick!

If the Rogue has a reach weapon, the fighter does not, and the fighter only charges 10 feet to reach the target... such that the Rogue has only moved 5ft at the time that the target is within reach of his weapon... Wow, that does sound like a full attack for the Rogue. Nicely done.

hamishspence
2010-09-06, 05:38 AM
"Ogre with a goblin tailgunner" was cited once- I think in the Dragon issue that discussed mounts.

Notable exceptions to the "bipeds are difficult" principle- various bipedal dinosaurs and birds.

One notable exception to "must be at least 1 size larger"- porpoises in Arms & Equipment Guide can carry Medium sized creatures- because the water helps hold them up.

That said, I'd probably advance porpoises to Large size if I wanted to stat out a fully grown bottlenose dolphin- since the largest of these (Moray Firth dolphins) are over 12 ft long and over 1000 pounds in weight.

Snake-Aes
2010-09-06, 05:48 AM
That doesn't even work with a traditional mount.

You are hours behind, sir or dame. I already stated the alternative a good fifteen hours before that.