3.5 Basketball

[Gettles]

D&D 3.5 Basketball
For an upcoming game I was thinking about trying to set up a game of basketball under the assumption that it could either be a fun diversion or a total disaster but either way it would be pretty memorable. Still, I'd like some advice or suggestions as right now what I've come up with could use a lot work.

I'm making this for fourth level characters so things are supposed to be appropriate for that. Here is what I've come up with so far:



A jump shot qualifies as a ranged attack a successful shot requires at least an 15.
-There is no penalty for shot attempted within 10 feet of the hoop. For every five feet beyond that there is a -2 penalty to the shot.
- If attempting a jump shot with a play in an adjacent space who is between you and the basket there is a -2 penalty to the shot.

Dunks are considered touch attacks with the hoops AC in this case being 11. Before a dunk can be done a jump check is required. The jump is based on size with large characters needing a 7, medium needing 11, small needing 15.
-This penalty increases by 5 for every five feet away from the that the dunk is attempted from.

A Pass is considered a Range Touch Attack requiring a successful check of 13- the recipients Dex modifier (for example if the ball is passed to someone with a Dex of 12 the check becomes 12 as well, if it is passed to someone with a Dex of 8 than the check is 14). . There is no negatives for a pass of 15 feet. There is a -2 for every five feet beyond that.

Steals will be similar to an attack of opportunity. Steals will be based on a slight of hand check against the ball handlers balance check.
-A defender gets a free steal opportunity from a pass if the ball passes through their square. The steal check will be against pass.
-A steal can not be attempted if a ball handler has not yet either moved or passed.

If a defender is in an adjacent square to a shooter they may attempt to block the shot. This will be based on a jump check vs. the shot.


During a players turn they may not use a five foot step to create space and avoid steal/block attempts. Instead at any other point between a players turn, they may use a single five foot step.

-If a player has an unused 5-foot step and they are passed the ball/grab a rebound when it is not their turn, they may attempt a shot or a pass with their step.

Rebounds will be based on a grapple check against the ball. If more than one player is in position for a rebound, if one play is directly in front of the other, the one in front gets a +4 bonus on the check.

A player may not stay within the key for more than one full round. If you are in the key at the end of a round, you must leave it during your next turn.

* After a basket both teams reset to their respective sides of the court.


Feats:
Any feat which increases a skill used in this game is unaffected.
Precise Shot + Long Shot: The penalty for a shot attempted beyond 10 feet is lessened by 4. These abilities stack.
Combat reflexes: An extra 5 foot step when on defense.
All two weapon fighting feats give a +3 to all ball handling checks against steals.
The improved Disarm feat give a +3 bonus to steal attempts.
The Deflect Arrows and Snatch Arrows feat give a +2 on attempts to block shots.
Improved unarmed strike and improved grapple will both give a plus 3 to rebounding.

[Greyfeld]

I can't really tell if this game is balanced or not without playing it myself, but what about checks for guarding and charging?

Like for example, if a character uses his move action to advance X number of feet, then uses a standard action to guard, an opposing player can't move through that space or cause a charging foul. But if the first player moves into the square and DOESN'T take a standard action to to guard, he's considered "still in motion" and the opposing player can use a strength check to charge through that square without penalty.

That may be making things too complicated for what you're intending to do for your game, but it was just a thought. It would be nice to give Strength a role in the game instead of having it be all dex.

[Gettles]

What you said about charging is part of the problem. Adding things like fouls might help with a few things, but I have trouble of coming up with a way to include them without either making things too complicated (which I fear I'm approaching already) or risking slowing down the pace of the game to the point where it becomes dull.

But I can see what you are saying about giving strength more of a role. As it stand now, all it is good for really is rebounds, and while it makes sense in a way as it means the stronger characters will play closer to the basket in order to grab rebounds much like centers and PFs would it would help to give it more of a role.

I was also considering the ability to use a feint as a pump fake to gain a shot without a block attempt or penalty for shooting while covered.

[Beorn080]

If its one player vs one player, as in actual players and not the number on a team, you could invest in a speed chess timer, or another timer that can quickly be reset to a set time. Thus, you have 30 seconds to move, and if you knock a piece down, that would be charging.

Guarding I would handle as the Catch arrows feat, with directly in between having a bonus to catch, and adjacent to the line having a penalty.

[Demons_eye]

Have the player be taught by a Drunken Master. I would suggest power attacking the hoop for bonuses to intimidate on slam dunks.

[DonEsteban]

How about letting guarding and charging players make opposed Ini checks? If the defender wins, the charge is blocked and the move action lost. If the attacker wins, he gets through. If the difference is less than 5, the losing player can choose to foul.

If it's a one-shot anyway, don't try to make up too many rules. Let the players be creative. If they come up with good ways to apply their character's strengths, let them do it!

[ericgrau]

1. A bit high for a commoner with a clear shot, but maybe it works for high power adventurers. Remember cover from an opponent gives +4 AC and a distracting opponent gives -2 AB. And your own stealing rules may add more.

2, 6. The typical penalty for ranged attacks is -2 per range increment, which is at least 10 feet for the clunkiest of thrown items. No penalty at a range of 5 feet.

4. There are already rules for this. Reach is 8 feet, x2 or x1/2 per size category. The jump DC is 4 per vertical foot jumped, or double that without a running start of at least 10 feet. Assuming you need to reach 1 foot above a standard 10 foot hoop, the jump DCs are then 12 for medium ((11-8)x4) and 28 for small ((11-4)x4). A large creature can drop the ball in while standing there. DCs from are 24 and 56 without a running start.

5. Matches the jump rules, actually.

7. Wrong application for this pickpocketing and coin palming skill. This is an unarmed disarm check against someone holding the ball. I'd give a bonus against a dribbler. Since disarming is an attack it can be used as part of an attack of opportunity by those with improved unarmed strike, or multiple attempts may be made as part of a full attack. Also provides built in applications for combat reflexes, two weapon fighting and improved disarm without the need to add more rules.

IMO I'd make blocking and passing opposed attack rolls against someone's shot / pass, then you use the defender's roll to see if he blocks it. Then if he doesn't use the hoop's/receiver's adjusted AC (usually +4 for cover if the defender is between it and the shooter) to see if it goes in. Instead of blocking defenders may attempt the "aid another" action to give an opponent they threaten a -2 on their shot if they make an attack roll against AC 10. Or the same to give the hoop an additional +2 AC. Readied actions against shots may help here. Or if someone attempts a steal or other action instead of readying an action to defend, they may only use attacks of opportunity to defend.

[jvluso]

Races of Stone has rules for throwing/catching a ball, and intercepting a pass.


Throwing a ball to an ally is likewise a ranged touch attack, except the Dexterity bonuses and penalties are reversed when calculating the targets AC (in other words it is easier to throw the ball to a dexterous target than to a clumsy target). To attempt an interception, you must be within 5 ft of the path of the ball, and get a better result on your ranged attack roll than the thrower got on his ranged attack roll.

This is in a section regarding a Goliath sport called goatball.

[Gettles]

I didn't know about the goatball thing. That could be pretty useful. But I'm a bit confused about how that would work. Does that mean that a pass is a range touch attack and if say the person that is being passed to has 12 Dex the pass would need a 9 but if they had 9 dex the passer would need an 11?

[Gettles]

One last attempt to get some suggestions before the game takes place (which at this point is going to happen the next time we are short a player.)

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

So, there's no reason not to jump and go for a block if you're adjacent to a shooter? I'd add a pump fake action (swift, pick up your dribble if you've moved) with the associated bluff/sense motive attached. If the defender normally blocks shot attempts and fails the opposed check, he's caught in the air and momentarily removes himself from the defense (no bonuses, no stealing, no blocking, etc).

I assume dunks normally can't be attempted if there's a defender between you and the basket. Could this be negated if your long jump was high enough to jump over the defender (or if you were close enough to the basket to high jump over the defender)? I'm reminded of Vince Carter over Weis in the 2000 Olympics here, and in 3.5 that is definitely possible.

Is speed decreased while dribbling? If not I see monk fast breaks in your future.

I assume tumble is invalid to avoid AoOs.

Edit: Oh, what are you going to do with spellcasting? Benign Transposition to get a dunker in position off the ball, Enlarge Person for big time dunking and blocking (which reminds me, do you get block bonuses based on height?), Swift Fly for an automatic three point dunk, Sculpted Grease to cause all sorts of shenanigans... I suppose none of this is necessarily a problem.

[Gettles]

So, there's no reason not to jump and go for a block if you're adjacent to a shooter? I'd add a pump fake action (swift, pick up your dribble if you've moved) with the associated bluff/sense motive attached. If the defender normally blocks shot attempts and fails the opposed check, he's caught in the air and momentarily removes himself from the defense (no bonuses, no stealing, no blocking, etc).

I assume dunks normally can't be attempted if there's a defender between you and the basket. Could this be negated if your long jump was high enough to jump over the defender (or if you were close enough to the basket to high jump over the defender)? I'm reminded of Vince Carter over Weis in the 2000 Olympics here, and in 3.5 that is definitely possible.

Is speed decreased while dribbling? If not I see monk fast breaks in your future.

I assume tumble is invalid to avoid AoOs.

I was assuming that a pump fake would be a basic feint, but I should have that written down. Maybe make it a swift action as well.

Your definitely right about dunking over defenders.

I'm not sure about the speed decrease while dribbling though. If it is decreased what do you think would be fair? 10 feet?

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

I was assuming that a pump fake would be a basic feint, but I should have that written down. Maybe make it a swift action as well.

Your definitely right about dunking over defenders.

I'm not sure about the speed decrease while dribbling though. If it is decreased what do you think would be fair? 10 feet?Maybe -10 feet to base speed and you can't take the run action?

[Gettles]

Maybe -10 feet to base speed and you can't take the run action?

Ok, that sounds good.

[Invelios]

Wow Half orc monks will own this game, if core only. Unless you are allowing wizards, in which case wizard wins.....fly would trump all making it a dribbling version of quidditch.

I don't know how you are going to work flavor into this.

but I know cross over dribbles could be the feint check, and what about spin moves (maybe spring attack?)

the improved bull rush feat could be used for giving bonuses for posting up, or stopping the same.

[Gettles]

Well, this weekend I finally got the chance to try this out. And I can say I went better than I was expecting after everyone got the hang of things and after a few adjustments were instituted (such as losing your five foot step after dashing/running and after successful shots both sides go back to their side of the court) things went pretty well.

The mages were limited with a "you can use magic as long as it is not obvious that you're using magic rule.

The players adjusted surprisingly quickly and even started using real tactics with one of them who knows nothing about basketball even running a successful pick and roll.

The party monk dominated

In shot the game is still very rough but seems workable and I'd just like to thank everyone who have helped me here.

[ElfMadness]

I know this is some major thread necromancy, but I thought it would be weird to start a new thread. Sorry.

So, earlier today, I DMed a 3.5 game where the party of three had to play a game of 3vs3 basket ball. Inspired by this thread I made my own rules for this (https://www.docdroid.net/hgDJl81/basketball-draft1.pdf) and made a custom map. (https://www.docdroid.net/SApfwp5/baskball-court.pdf) Overall, it was pretty fun.

There were a few changes we made though:

We decided to play to 11 instead of 21.
We allowed characters to remain in "A" squares as long as they wanted.


I also decided that next time the size modifier would apply to jump balls too and not just dunks.

Thoughts? I'm looking to improve it. Again, we all had fun.

https://i.imgur.com/5M9we4q.jpg

The small d6s are NPCs and the clay people and the lego are PCs. The orange clay is the ball. The army men are fans.