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View Full Version : Yay for Monks!...and their prestige classes



Krüsher
2010-09-04, 03:13 AM
Okay guys, so got some more lazy questions resulting from me wanting to know how to make a cool character. I'm used to people bashing on monks for being underpowered. And I've been trying to do some research on a monk that would work for me to role-play that would still have power. I already have looked at the "Ghost Monk" , "Drunken Master" , and "Enlightened Fist." But they don't seem to work with my intentions. The drunken master seemed like it would be fun but wouldn't work with my character's mindset. The person I am thinking I would want would be someone who had traveled the world and studied different arts, he would have searched for his calling and spent many hours meditating in order to reach enlightenment (basically a monk.) But I don't want him to be just a monk! :smallmad: So... sorry the post is long but tell me your thoughts guys!

MoelVermillion
2010-09-04, 03:16 AM
As much as I hate to be the guy to open the thread with this, is an Unarmed Sword Sage playable in your game? Sounds like it fits the flavour of what you want and it has a wide range of different maneuvers ranging from flashy and magical to mundane yet awesome.

Vangor
2010-09-04, 03:28 AM
Sounds as though the Unarmed Swordsage variant would work since he would have presumably "studied different arts" or disciplines and you "spend many hours meditating" in order to ready maneuvers.

freebiewitz
2010-09-04, 04:31 AM
Hmm well there is this very interesting class in the complete warrior, a presitge class called tattooed monk.

Basically he gives himself tattoos that give him powers and let him focus his Ki. Some of them increase his stats temporarily. I think one or two of them actually heals people and I know one of them makes you immune to fear.

(The below is just speculation)
Basically you understand you body to such a degree that you manipulate you Ki lines, lines which regulate your Ki flow using needles to redistribute them into the right places etc. However the needle when taken out makes the power go away. So to make it more permanent they use ink and tattoos.

I wonder where my copy of complete warrior is, I'm sure they had a proper explanation for it.

Anyhow the requirements aren't that hard to get. As a monk you should be able to get all the feats required really fast. You just need BAB+3. Because of this fighters can take this class at level 4..... no wait I think one of the feats you have to have is stunning fist..... maaan I can't remember.

BobVosh
2010-09-04, 05:03 AM
Meet Fistbeard Beardfist. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116838) All monks wish to be FB.

RebelRogue
2010-09-04, 05:53 AM
A Tashalatora build could be ok, if your DM allows Eberron Feats. Psychic Warrior is probably the best multiclass to use.

Greenish
2010-09-04, 06:24 AM
A Tashalatora build could be ok, if your DM allows Eberron Feats. Psychic Warrior is probably the best multiclass to use.Some elaboration on that: Tashatalora (Secrets of Sarlona) is a multiclassing feat between monk and a chosen psionic class. It allows the psionic class to progress unarmed damage, flurry and AC bonus from monk. The popular psionic classes for it are the Psychic Warrior (EXP/SRD) and Ardent (CPsi).

Xallace
2010-09-04, 06:36 AM
The person I am thinking I would want would be someone who had traveled the world and studied different arts, he would have searched for his calling and spent many hours meditating in order to reach enlightenment (basically a monk.) But I don't want him to be just a monk! :smallmad: So... sorry the post is long but tell me your thoughts guys!

Yeah, it definitely sounds like unarmed swordsage is your guy.

Alternatively, have you looked into Sacred Fist from Complete Divine? Improved Monk abilities, full BAB, d10 HD, 8/10 Divine Casting (if I recall correctly). Meditate for your spells and take a few choice tactical feats to simulate studying different martial arts.

Bayar
2010-09-04, 07:20 AM
Okay guys, so got some more lazy questions resulting from me wanting to know how to make a cool character. I'm used to people bashing on monks for being underpowered. And I've been trying to do some research on a monk that would work for me to role-play that would still have power. I already have looked at the "Ghost Monk" , "Drunken Master" , and "Enlightened Fist." But they don't seem to work with my intentions. The drunken master seemed like it would be fun but wouldn't work with my character's mindset. The person I am thinking I would want would be someone who had traveled the world and studied different arts, he would have searched for his calling and spent many hours meditating in order to reach enlightenment (basically a monk.) But I don't want him to be just a monk! :smallmad: So... sorry the post is long but tell me your thoughts guys!

An alternative to the suggestions that were already given: Unarmed Cleric. You get to meditate for your spells, use those spells like they were ki powers to augment your attacks and defences pre-combat, the usual stuff...

erikun
2010-09-04, 07:26 AM
The Monk/Psionic Fist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/psionicFist.htm) or Zerth Cenobite, a related prestige class found in Complete Psionic - or even both, if you want - could work if you with to keep a monk but want to dip into psionic classes.

Aotrs Commander
2010-09-04, 07:38 AM
An alternative to the suggestions that were already given: Unarmed Cleric. You get to meditate for your spells, use those spells like they were ki powers to augment your attacks and defences pre-combat, the usual stuff...

I did that with a straight Monk/Cleric, and refluffed it as a Naruto style ninja (using the Trickery and Competition domians, Decisive Strike and Divine Counterspell). Works quite nicely.

Emmerask
2010-09-04, 08:19 AM
Handbooks are your friend :smallwink:

This seems like a monk who has traveled and learned a lot of different styles:

Race: changeling
Alignment: any.
Monk (Passive Way) 2/psychic warrior 2/swordsage 1/initiate of draconic mysteries 4/SS+1/shadow sun ninja 1/fist of the forest 3/warshaper 2/IoDM+4
1: Combat Expertise (bonus), Power Attack
2: Improved Trip (bonus)
3: Alertness, Iron Will (bonus)
4: Great Fortitude (bonus)
6: Tashalatora
9: Superior Unarmed Strike
12: Practiced Manifester
15: open
18: open

Skills:
1: hide 4, concentration 4, know (relig) 4, know (arcana) 4, jump 0, tumble 4
2: hide 5, concentration 5, know (relig) 4, know (arcana) 5, jump 2, tumble 4
3: hide 5, concentration 6, know (relig) 4, know (arcana) 5, jump 4, tumble 4
4: hide 5, concentration 6, know (relig) 4, know (arcana) 6, jump 5, tumble 4
5: hide 8, concentration 6, know (relig) 4, know (arcana) 6, jump 8, tumble 4 (with one left over)
Open after this.

Items: Monk’s Belt, Monk’s Tattoo (may not stack ask your gm), Fanged Ring, Necklace of Natural Attacks

Full attack is 4 unarmed strikes at 36d8 (or 48d8, depending on your extrapolation of the chart) damage each, and insane trip modifiers, as well as decent reach. Add in Inhuman Reach and one more Warshaper level for +10 foot reach. Add in Broken Fist Masteries I and II and Knock-Down for more trippy goodness. Tomb-Tainted Soul somewhere in the party would be great, and would make the healing go twice as fast.

DragoonWraith
2010-09-04, 11:11 AM
In general, more than 2 Monk levels are bad. 0 is better. You can be a monk without being a Monk.

The primary way to do this is to be an Unarmed Swordsage. They're excellent. See Tome of Battle.

The secondary way is the Tashalatora feat from Secrets of Sarlona. The sort of obvious, easy way to do Tashalatora is Monk 2/Ardent 18, or if you don't have Complete Psionic (can't blame you), Monk 2/Psychic Warrior 18. Both fit the fluff of Monk very well (highly disciplined warriors with quasi-mystical abilities). Better yet, however, is to be an Ardent (or Psychic Warrior) 20. Tashalatora does not actually require levels in Monk. A Human Ardent (or Psychic Warrior) 1 can take Monastic Training (Ardent or Psychic Warrior) and Tashalatora, and gain the Unarmed Strike damage, Wis-to-AC, Flurry of Blows, and Fast Movement of a Monk 1.

Psionic Fist and Zerth Cenobite are both pretty weak, in my opinion. Enlightened Fist, I don't think is terribly good. Sacred Fist I've heard better things about, but I don't know how actually good it is.

Awnetu
2010-09-04, 01:03 PM
Just for clarification, the Psychic Warrior is free from wizards.
http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/psionicPsychicWarrior.html

Using the below table, I spied some ways to make your monk more focused on his Wisdom, allowing him to better portray his insights gained from being a man who traveled the world.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732

FMArthur
2010-09-04, 02:35 PM
What's so good about Monk's second level that makes Monk a two-level class for so many instead of just one? Is Evasion required for a lot of future options?

Bayar
2010-09-04, 02:36 PM
What's so good about Monk's second level that makes Monk a two-level class for so many instead of just one? Is Evasion required for a lot of future options?

It's a really good thing to have.

Awnetu
2010-09-04, 03:22 PM
Evasions solid, free Deflect Arrows is ok, +1 to all saves, and +1 to BAB.



Noone really cares about the Flurry of Blows improvement though :smalltongue:

Greenish
2010-09-04, 03:26 PM
What's so good about Monk's second level that makes Monk a two-level class for so many instead of just one? Is Evasion required for a lot of future options?Evasion and a bonus feat with no prerequisites, on top of a decent chassis. Solid, if not very awesome.

Urpriest
2010-09-04, 03:27 PM
Plus it gives you all the Tash prereqs as bonus feats, and Ardent Tashalatoras are pretty feat-starved as-is.

Greenish
2010-09-04, 03:33 PM
Better yet, however, is to be an Ardent (or Psychic Warrior) 20. Tashalatora does not actually require levels in Monk. A Human Ardent (or Psychic Warrior) 1 can take Monastic Training (Ardent or Psychic Warrior) and Tashalatora, and gain the Unarmed Strike damage, Wis-to-AC, Flurry of Blows, and Fast Movement of a Monk 1.You'd feel pretty silly when your every attack provokes an AoO though. A level in monk gets you Monastic Training and IUS (as well as +2 to all saves).

A second level gets you another feat and evasion, which is nice but non-essential.

[Edit]: A first level character doesn't even qualify for Tashalatora, I notice.

Krüsher
2010-09-04, 04:35 PM
okay thank you for all the responses, I will look into them later. But I have another question. Is the Drunken Master actually any good? Because the more I read about it in "Complete Warrior" the more I really want to play one. Please inform me.:smallsmile:

The Glyphstone
2010-09-04, 04:39 PM
It's a thoroughly mediocre class, primarily because of its Monk base, and none of its class features are very impressive. It is, however, one of the five most hilariously fun PrCs in the game, if not in the top 3.

Bayar
2010-09-04, 04:43 PM
Drunken masters are awesome basketweavers.

Zaq
2010-09-05, 12:49 PM
Drunken Master is, like monk, a class that is best played in fluff, without ever writing it on your character sheet. The abilities it gets are very much too little too late, and they don't really get anything terribly interesting (without 50-foot ladder abuse). That said, the archetype of the drunken master is very easy to fluff without actually being able to beat people with bottles.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-09-05, 12:56 PM
What's so good about Monk's second level that makes Monk a two-level class for so many instead of just one? Is Evasion required for a lot of future options?

That and the possibility to gain many different bonus feat such as improved trip without pre-requisites, there are also sweet ACF that you can trade evasion for, Invisible fist in exemplars of evil, or ray deflection in Complete mage for example.

Edit: Sordsage'd! well sorta.