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View Full Version : [3.5] Level 16 Wiz to 25, What PrCs are appropriate?



SgtLion
2010-09-04, 10:47 AM
I play a Level 16 Wizard in this campaign where a large event has passed. This allows me to rise 9 levels in one, which many would probably argue is a bad idea.
Aside from GM decisions, I never level up in such large amounts, and have never had an epic character.
I'm a level 16 Lich Human Wizard (Illusionist). Levelling up, as I just said, but I do know that Epic Wizard levels are perhaps less worth it than many PrCs. I don't really know what enemies I'm going to face, so I need to be pretty well prepared. I come to you, experienced members of Dnd and its systems, for advice on what would be appropriate or recommended expenditure on levels in prestige classes, or any other advice for this levelling, even?

Sindriss
2010-09-04, 10:50 AM
Depends on level of cheese I suppose.

Tyndmyr
2010-09-04, 11:00 AM
IoT7V is a favorite of mine.

However, any full casting PrC should be frigging awesome. You can do quite a lot at level 25.

JeminiZero
2010-09-04, 11:19 AM
First, make sure you understand how the Epic Magic system works. The following was originally written by Tippy:

But anyways. There are 2 basic approaches to epic casting

First up: Rituals
You create an Epic Spell that permanently summons a Couatl.
The DC pre mitigation is 150 (30x5).
Increase the Casting time to 10 minutes (-18).
Increase the Casting time by 86 days (-132).
The spell now is free to create and has a final DC of 0.

The Draw back of this spell is the time required. If you have used arcane genesis to get your own personal demiplane with a much faster time trait that isn't really a problem but otherwise I recommend the following:
Hire 15 level 9 casters to sacrifice 1 5th level spell slot per casting. And keep the 10 minute casting time. At level 21 you should be able to cast 2 Epic Spells per day.

So day 1 you hire 15 level 9 casters and gain 2 Couatl's (which cast as level 9 clerics meaning 5th level spell slots).
Day 2 you hire 13 casters and gain 2 more Couatl's. And so on. By day 8 you don't need to hire any more casters.

Repeat the above until you have 30 Couatl's (so 15 days worth of casting).

Now you make your next epic spell. This is like the one above but permanently summons a solar instead of a Couatl. You need 30 Couatl's to mitigate the DC down to 0 with a 10 minute casting time.

Every 10 days of summoned solars allows you to mitigate away another 340 points of the spell craft DC. After 30 days you can mitigate away 1,290 points of the spell craft DC.

Now make whatever spells you want and mitigate away the costs. Permanent buffs are very nice.

The other way (thats less cheap) is to make Fortify Intelligence spells and just stack them (you get +1 spell craft for every 2 points of Intelligence).

Now let's assume that you did the ritual thing.

Some good spells are the following:
Immunity to all Spells:
DC 970 pre mitigation (use the Ward seed and don't choose the radius option). This includes immunity to all epic spells as well.
Resistance to all Normal attacks:
DC 1,290 pre mitigation (again using the ward seed). This gives you resistance to piercing, bludgeoning, and slashing damage of 125 points per turn.
Sonic Bolt:
DC 1,290 Pre mitigation. This uses the energy seed and gives you the spell like ability to create a Sonic Bolt that deals 633d6 damage (range 300 feet, reflex half) at will. But we only need 300d6 damage. Which allows us to add 312 to our caster level check to beat SR and change those d6's to d20's.
Epic Armor:
Use the armor seed and you can gain +24 AC of one of the nice types (Deflection, Luck, Divine, Profane, insight, etc). Get a few different versions (1 for each type) and you can end up with an AC of 120 just from this spell.

Those are just some ideas.

But the real power comes with the Origin of the Species spells. You make a creature that can breed in like 5 seconds and that has every possible ability you can think of as an Ex ability, including the ability to instantaneously mind switch with 1 willing person. You then make it extra specially loyal to you and order the mind switch. All the sudden you are in a body that makes the gods whimper in fear. Although for the really good ones you need to be able to mitigate a DC of around 20,000.

No I am not suggesting that you actually go out and use Epic magic like this but that is how you do the uber broken Epic casting. And even this stuff (besides the Origin of the Species) pales beside some of the stuff you can do (I have moved stars around before.).


Other than that, any solid full casting PrC should work, although Dweomerkeeper is very very high on the "totally borked" list, since it can apply its Supernatural Spell ability to Epic Spells. (Hint: Your buffs and summons cannot be dispelled or disjoined).

Jack_Simth
2010-09-04, 11:30 AM
I play a Level 16 Wizard in this campaign where a large event has passed. This allows me to rise 9 levels in one, which many would probably argue is a bad idea.
Aside from GM decisions, I never level up in such large amounts, and have never had an epic character.
I'm a level 16 Lich Human Wizard (Illusionist). Levelling up, as I just said, but I do know that Epic Wizard levels are perhaps less worth it than many PrCs. I don't really know what enemies I'm going to face, so I need to be pretty well prepared. I come to you, experienced members of Dnd and its systems, for advice on what would be appropriate or recommended expenditure on levels in prestige classes, or any other advice for this levelling, even?

Wizard's powerful enough in it's own right, and the bonus feats are useful - oh yes, and Familiar Spell makes the familiar reasonably useful as well (it gets it as a bonus feat, even). As a Wizard-25, you'd have three Epic feats (Character level 21, Character level 24, and Epic Wizard level 23). Your familiar would have one spell of up to 8th level, and it uses your caster level. I suggest Greater Teleport - it's always nice to have a "Get out of Dodge" effect that doesn't cost you an action.

Awnetu
2010-09-04, 01:00 PM
You can look at the Elemental Savant or Rainbow Servant classes, both are imo solid PrCs that might hold you back a few levels, 2 for Elemental Savant, 4 for the Rainbow Servant both give some decent, and pretty cool benefits.

The Rainbow Servant for example, gives you access to all cleric spells, 4 domains, (might not be all that awesome for you, but 4 domains for free hey), and those Cleric Spells that are not on your wizard list already, also count as divine spells.

Elemental Savant is just a PrC that I happen to like for the end result being you become a mini elemental, gaining some useful immunities (stunning, flanking, crits) as well as saving you from poisons from not needing to breathe or eat. And freeing up some time with no need to sleep.

Urpriest
2010-09-04, 01:04 PM
Rainbow Servant loses no caster levels. Text beats table, and later translations are full-casting.

Awnetu
2010-09-04, 01:13 PM
then there you go.

Just curious, do you happen to know where wizards of the coast specified that?

Jack_Simth
2010-09-04, 01:21 PM
Rainbow Servant loses no caster levels. Text beats table, and later translations are full-casting.Yes, but that's more a matter of poor editing. Not that it matters much - a lich, being evil, doesn't usually qualify for Rainbow Servant. And, of course, as spell access stops increasing automatically with level at 20th, losing a few caster levels is OK - just pick up Practiced Spellcaster, and you're good to go. Simple feat tax.


then there you go.

Just curious, do you happen to know where wizards of the coast specified that?
It's at the top of essentially every errata file on their website.

gorfnab
2010-09-04, 10:26 PM
For a Lich Illusionist...
Nightmare Spinner (Complete Mage) - great for illusionists, gets you some fear combos thanks to the Lich Fear Aura
Master Specialist (Complete Mage) - 4 levels gets you entry into Incantatrix
Incantatrix (Players Guide to Faerun) - awesome for almost every mage
Shadow Adept (Players Guide to Faerun) - gets you three interesting and slightly useful feat for the cost of a feat that boost the DC of your illusions

grimbold
2010-09-05, 05:56 AM
i like the archmage from the dmg
otherwise, the red wizard might also be good.
You can get most of the loremaster stuff in 9 levels, that class can give you quite a good bit of bonuses.

Thefurmonger
2010-09-05, 08:47 AM
To tell the truth once you hit 21 and get epic spellcasting you could take the next 5 levels in CW Samurai for all it matters.