Alternative poisons

[Admiral Squish]

So far I notice most poisons kinda suck. Low saves, relatively plain damage, half of which won't even see in this battle. Takes actions to apply it too.

So, I was wondering if there's other varieties of poison that were more interesting. Damage over time? Petrification? Anything along those lines?

[Cicciograna]

If you are a DM you could come with new poisons as you please. This means that you could create a rare alchemical poison that has a DC of 25, for example. Maybe that has "target falls unconscious for 1d6 hours" as primary and secondary effect: I would be very, very pissed off to be disabled in this way...

[Lev]

Ravages work nicely, and there is a feat and weapon upgrade that allows you to apply it with just a touch, so you could have a ravage weapon or a ravage-fist monk, ect.

Feat: Touch of Golden Ice (BoeD)

[NM020110]

Personally, I am a fan of Drow Poison. DC 13 save isn't going to make many people sneeze, but it does cause unconsciousness 1d6 hours/unconsciousness 1d6 hours, and only costs 75 gold per dose. If you can find a way to apply it to a target multiple times (rain of glass shards, skeletal archers, caltrops, anything else)...someone will fail a save.

As for higher saves on poison, I typically use poison as a threat rather than a full on combat measure. You might have a 95% chance of resisting the poison, but is that 5% risk of being paralyzed/knocked unconscious/dieing/worse really worth it?

Another thing to consider in a poison is delivery method. You mention applying it to a weapon and possibly inflicting the effect. Consider if you took leadership/thrallherd and gave them all sleep smoke. That would be (number of followers) DC 15 saves against unconsciousness in a fifty foot square, and some rather...limited visibility, which can easily be used to your advantage.

All in all, poisons are (in my opinion) nearly useless in their traditional role, but when creativity is applied (up-end a bag of holding filled with vials of inhaled poison, which you are immune to) you can cause game-altering effects with minimal effort.

[Greenish]

All in all, poisons are (in my opinion) nearly useless in their traditional roleThe traditional role of poisons is being fed to someone continuously in hopes that the target kicks the bucket eventually. :smallamused:

[FelixG]

Drow poison.

5% chance per shot that they will get KOd and can be couped bythe figher (unless they are immune to poison)

Thats a pretty good chance for only 75 gp (25 if you make it yourself)

[Greenish]

Drow poison.

5% chance per shot that they will get KOd and can be couped bythe figher (unless they are immune to poison)

Thats a pretty good chance for only 75 gp (25 if you make it yourself)Well, unless you're an archer, you have to use actions to apply the poison (swift with Assassination weapon or weapon capsule retainer).

[Admiral Squish]

Another note: What about diseases? Same problems seem to arise.

Do I just need to homebrew poisons/diseases that work?

[Darrin]

So, I was wondering if there's other varieties of poison that were more interesting. Damage over time? Petrification? Anything along those lines?

Aboleth Mucus (Savage Species p. 46). It's not a poison, so you don't have to check to see if you poison yourself. The save DC 19 isn't all that great, but it's stupendously cheaper than most poisons (20 GP per vial), and if the target fails the save, they can't breath air for 3 hours and start to suffocate. This means if they can't find an air breathing spell or water breathing spell + bucket of water, they die in about 2-3 minutes.

Chaos Flask (Planar Handbook p. 76). Flask of pure limbo that can be transformed into any non-magical substance you can think of with a standard action and a DC 13 Wisdom check. This includes pretty much all poisons... including Colossal Scorpion Poison (BoVD p. 44), 2d8 Str damage with an injury DC *54*. The Chaos Flask costs 100 GP, which works out to an 8900 GP discount. It will dissipate after a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom score, but as long as your Wisdom is 10+, that should be long enough for the target to get hit with the initial and secondary damage. You might also be able to store the poison in a Glove of Storing/Master Strategist, which keeps it in stasis, and you can get it out/put it back with a free action.

[Xyk]

Aboleth Mucus (Savage Species p. 46). It's not a poison, so you don't have to check to see if you poison yourself. The save DC 19 isn't all that great, but it's stupendously cheaper than most poisons (20 GP per vial), and if the target fails the save, they can't breath air for 3 hours and start to suffocate. This means if they can't find an air breathing spell or water breathing spell + bucket of water, they die in about 2-3 minutes.

Chaos Flask (Planar Handbook p. 76). Flask of pure limbo that can be transformed into any non-magical substance you can think of with a standard action and a DC 13 Wisdom check. This includes pretty much all poisons... including Colossal Scorpion Poison (BoVD p. 44), 2d8 Str damage with an injury DC *54*. The Chaos Flask costs 100 GP, which works out to an 8900 GP discount. It will dissipate after a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom score, but as long as your Wisdom is 10+, that should be long enough for the target to get hit with the initial and secondary damage. You might also be able to store the poison in a Glove of Storing/Master Strategist, which keeps it in stasis, and you can get it out/put it back with a free action.

Those both sound game-breaking. I'm skeptical of their full existence and interpretation.

[FelixG]

Those both sound game-breaking. I'm skeptical of their full existence and interpretation.

It is likely that they were never made to be used as offensive weapons

[BladeofOblivion]

Personally, I am a fan of Drow Poison. DC 13 save isn't going to make many people sneeze, but it does cause unconsciousness 1d6 hours/unconsciousness 1d6 hours, and only costs 75 gold per dose. If you can find a way to apply it to a target multiple times (rain of glass shards, skeletal archers, caltrops, anything else)...someone will fail a save.


In 3.0, my favorite use was to take a level of Monk, a custom item that let you apply poison to a lot of things at once, and to spam 30+ Shurikens a Round with good accuracy. Those were the days...

[Beorn080]

There was a guide on here for sundry items. Didn't cover poisons too much, but there were a lot of similar items like the Aboleth Mucus in there. I can't recall what it was called though.

Also, poisons to me are out of the box weapons. For instance, Black Lotus Extract. 4500 gp a dose is extremely expensive, even at 20th. However, use that as a material component in Minor Creation, since it is a plant product, and pour it into the river of the evil kingdom, or in the water source for the army that's sieging your city. Lasts one hour per level, and is dismissable, so by level 10, you pretty much kill off an entire city, since 10 cubic feet is a LOT of poison. Bonus, it goes away afterwards so no long last effects to the water supply.

[Lev]

There was a guide on here for sundry items. Didn't cover poisons too much, but there were a lot of similar items like the Aboleth Mucus in there. I can't recall what it was called though.

Also, poisons to me are out of the box weapons. For instance, Black Lotus Extract. 4500 gp a dose is extremely expensive, even at 20th. However, use that as a material component in Minor Creation, since it is a plant product, and pour it into the river of the evil kingdom, or in the water source for the army that's sieging your city. Lasts one hour per level, and is dismissable, so by level 10, you pretty much kill off an entire city, since 10 cubic feet is a LOT of poison. Bonus, it goes away afterwards so no long last effects to the water supply.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4854.0

This would be what you are looking for?

[BladeofOblivion]

You can also Craft this Lotus extract for a much better price if you need it to last. Also, Isn't "Black Lotus Extract" awesome-sounding even without the cruel amount of Con Damage?

Seriously, an average roll with that stuff can drop a horse. An average roll can also kill a slightly frail human or an average elf instantly.

[Beorn080]

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4854.0

This would be what you are looking for?

No. It was a great guide which compared a large number of various alchemical and non magical goodies, and packaged them up in easy to purchase packages. Though that's a very good one for poisons though.

[dsmiles]

Once again, I get to advertise my favorite splatbook:

Pale Designs: A Poisoner's Handbook (http://dragonwing.net/Pale_Designs.htm)

[Kaww]

There was a guide on here for sundry items. Didn't cover poisons too much, but there were a lot of similar items like the Aboleth Mucus in there. I can't recall what it was called though.

Also, poisons to me are out of the box weapons. For instance, Black Lotus Extract. 4500 gp a dose is extremely expensive, even at 20th. However, use that as a material component in Minor Creation, since it is a plant product, and pour it into the river of the evil kingdom, or in the water source for the army that's sieging your city. Lasts one hour per level, and is dismissable, so by level 10, you pretty much kill off an entire city, since 10 cubic feet is a LOT of poison. Bonus, it goes away afterwards so no long last effects to the water supply.

I think you meant this:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148101

Right?

[Beorn080]

Thank you. That was the guide I was thinking of.

[Ravens_cry]

Poisons were wonky the other way in 1st edition. Save verses poison, or die.

[Snake-Aes]

The traditional role of poisons is being fed to someone continuously in hopes that the target kicks the bucket eventually. :smallamused:

The traditional role of poisons is to kill food within a minute or two. Animals been doing that for much longer than our species :p

[Kaww]

The traditional role of poisons is to kill food within a minute or two. Animals been doing that for much longer than our species :p

Or a potential predator or a cough stupid, cough nonnative human cough. X(

[Lolzords]

The BoVD features Eyeblast:
Injury DC 22
Initial Damage: Blindness
Secondary Damage: Blindness
Price: 500gp a dose

[Lev]

The traditional role of poisons is to kill food within a minute or two. Animals been doing that for much longer than our species :p
I think that's venom, or bacteria.

Komodo dragons kill over the course of weeks for instance, they nip a leg and wait, nip it again and wait.

But yeah, poisons in my campaign tend to be more effective... a blowdart is often more effective than any large metal object.

[Flickerdart]

Thri-Kreen have a pretty nifty poison, usable 1/day, or 3/day with a feat. The initial damage is 1d6 DEX, which is not so great, but the secondary is 2d6 minutes of paralysis. Take that one feat from Serpent Kingdoms which lets you spit poison over a distance, or as a cone, and use it on people you don't want to run away from you, or that you want to run away from.