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View Full Version : [d20r, Feats] Heroic Feats



Fax Celestis
2010-09-04, 10:42 PM
These feats frequently reference "hero value": a hero value is equal to half your character level, though some feats and class features may augment it.

Heroic Surge [Heroic]
Benefit: Once per day, as an immediate action, you may add your hero value as a destiny bonus to a saving throw. If you do so, you do not not automatically fail on a 1.

Special: You may take this feat more than once. Each time beyond the first, increase the number of times per day you may use this feat by 2.

Heroic Destiny [Heroic]
Benefit: Once per day, as an immediate action, you may heal a number of d4s of damage equal to your hero value.

Special: You may use this ability while unconscious or flat-footed, and you may use it in response to an action that would render you dead or dying. You may take this feat more than once. Each time beyond the first, increase the number of times per day you may use this feat by 2.

Heroic Focus [Heroic]
Prerequisite: Ability to manifest 1st level powers

Benefit: Once per day, as a swift action, you may regain psionic focus (if you are not already focused) and immediately regain power points equal to your hero value.

Special: You may take this feat more than once. Each time beyond the first, increase the number of times per day you may use this feat by 2.

Heroic Strike [Heroic]
Benefit: A number of times per day equal to your highest ability modifier, when you make an attack or use a direct hit point damaging spell or spell-like ability, you may declare it to be a 'heroic strike'. Add your highest ability modifier to your attack roll, or as a bonus to caster level checks to overcome a targets spell resistance. If you hit, you deal extra damage equal to your hero value. If you miss, the ability is still used up for the day. Damaging spells that deal reduced or partial damage on a successful save by the affected targets only deal half your hero value in extra damage, rounded down, if they make a successful save.

Special: You may take this feat more than once. Each time beyond the first, increase the number of times per day you may use this feat by 2.

Hero of the People [Heroic]
Benefit: You gain one additional racial charge (for a racial feature such as Natural Magic, Natural Talent, or Inborn Psionics).

Intrepid Dodge [Heroic]
Benefit: A number of times per day equal to your highest ability modifier, as an immediate action when you are attacked, you may add your hero value to your Armor Class as a destiny bonus. This bonus lasts until the start of your next turn.

A destiny bonus to your armor class applies and stacks with other bonuses as if it were a deflection bonus, but still stacks with a deflection bonus to AC. If you do so, you are not automatically struck on a natural 20.

Special: You may use this ability while flat-footed. You may take this feat more than once. Each time beyond the first, increase the number of times per day you may use this feat by 2.

Intrepid Future [Heroic]
Benefit: Increase your hero value by 1.

Intrepid Glory [Heroic]
Benefit: Once per day, as an immediate action, you may regain one use of a class feature limited in uses per day.

Special: You may take this feat more than once. Each time beyond the first, increase the number of times per day you may use this feat by 2.

Intrepid Opportunity [Heroic]
Benefit: A number of times per day equal to your highest ability modifier, as part of an attack of opportunity, you may add your hero value to your attack and damage roll. Should you miss, the use is still used up.

Special: You may take this feat more than once. Each time beyond the first, increase the number of times per day you may use this feat by 2.

Legendary Ambush [Heroic]
Benefit: A number of times per day equal to your highest ability modifier, as an swift action, you may gain a number of sneak attack dice equal to that of a rogue whose level equals your hero value until the end of your turn.

Special: You may take this feat more than once. Each time beyond the first, increase the number of times per day you may use this feat by 2.

Legendary Lore [Heroic]
Benefit: You gain the bardic knowledge ability, except that you use your hero value to determine your bonus. If you already have the bardic knowledge or lore ability, instead add your hero value to determine your total bonus.

Legendary Presence [Heroic]
Benefit: Once per day, as a standard action, enemies within 30' must make a will save (DC 10 + your hero value + your Charisma modifier) or be shaken for one minute.

Special: You may take this feat more than once. Each time beyond the first, increase the number of times per day you may use this feat by 2.

Legendary Promise [Heroic]
Benefit: The next time you gain a level, you gain a bonus feat.

Your hero value increases by one until you gain a level.

Mythic Moves [Heroic]
Benefit: A number of times per day equal to your highest ability modifier, as a swift action, you may gain a destiny bonus to your move speed equal to your hero value multiplied by 5. This bonus lasts until the start of your next turn.

Special: You may take this feat more than once. Each time beyond the first, increase the number of times per day you may use this feat by 2.

Mythic Parry [Heroic]
Benefit: A number of times per day equal to your highest ability modifier, as an immediate action when you are attacked, you may gain DR/- equal to your hero value. This lasts until the start of your next turn.

Special: You may use this ability while flat-footed. You may take this feat more than once. Each time beyond the first, increase the number of times per day you may use this feat by 2.

Mythic Recovery [Heroic]
Prerequisite: At least three other Heroic feats

Benefit: Once per day, as an immediate action, you may end a number of the following effects on you equal to your hero value: blinded, confused, dazed, dazzled, deafened, entangled, exhausted, fatigued, immobilized, paralyzed, or sickened.

Special: If you cannot use this ability due to an effect you would end with this ability, you may instead activate this ability as a full-round action even if you normally would not be able to do so. You may take this feat more than once. Each time beyond the first, increase the number of times per day you may use this feat by 2.

Mythic Senses [Heroic]
Prerequisite: At least one other heroic feat

Benefit: You gain low-light vision and darkvision 60'. If you already have darkvision, instead add 60' to its effective area. If your hero value is greater than three, you gain tremorsense 5' times your hero value (so that someone with hero value 10 has tremorsense 50'). If your hero value is greater than six, you gain blindsense 5' times half your hero value (so that someone with hero value 10 has blindsense 25').

Valiant Action [Heroic]
Benefit: A number of times per day equal to your highest ability modifier, as part of using a skill, you may add your hero value to the roll as a destiny bonus.

Special: You may take this feat more than once. Each time beyond the first, increase the number of times per day you may use this feat by 2.

Valiant Constitution [Heroic]
Benefit: At the start of an encounter, you immediately gain temporary hit points equal to your hero value. These temporary hit points last for one minute before fading.

Valiant Magic [Heroic]
Benefit: Once per day, you may recover a used spell slot of a level equal to your hero value or less.

Special: You may take this feat more than once. Each time beyond the first, increase the number of times per day you may use this feat by 2.

Esser-Z
2010-09-04, 10:48 PM
Oooh, I like them, a lot.


Though, Valiant Action: A reason for not increasing HV?

Also, Intrepid Dodge: Does it count as Dodge? If so, it totally replaces dodge, as it's strictly better.

Flickerdart
2010-09-04, 10:57 PM
Valiant Magic seems like a great feat for any spellcaster to grab, if they have any free. They don't even need to do anything special after that, since 1/2 level+1 is always equal to the highest level of spells they can cast. You should probably also add the action for that, too.

Healing 1/2 level in d4 isn't that great. On average, it's healing only marginally more than your HD, meaning that it's an Improved Toughness that costs an action to use. It gets better if you take the other feats, but not by much.

You may want to consider allowing the player to apply the bonus from Valiant Action after they roll (though not necessarily before they know if they succeed or not). A bonus to skill checks isn't worth very much most of the time.

In general, +X feats aren't terribly interesting, even if they do scale.

Esser-Z
2010-09-04, 10:59 PM
They're somewhat more interesting than standard +x feats, in that they're Tribal (er, sorry. MtG on the brain), supporting each other. And they all boost your AC!

Fax Celestis
2010-09-05, 12:38 AM
Added Mythic Moves and Mythic Recovery; fixed a line on some others. Jury's still out about whether Heroic Dodge should count as Dodge.

Violet Octopus
2010-09-05, 09:37 AM
Is d20r assuming the use of Action Points, or are they intended to provide an alternative?

Any plans to integrate this with other d20r-specific mechanics?
e.g. something like

Hero Of The People
Increase your hero value by 1.
You gain 1 Natural Magic, Natural Talent or Inborn Psionics charge.

Seconding Flickerdart's concern about Valiant Magic's rate of scaling. Also, unless you keep the Wizard a prepared caster, it just comes off as an extra spell slot of f(hero value) level. While it'd be a memorable ability for a prepared caster to force their brain to remember an already-cast spell in a time of great need, as a spontaneous caster I'd probably just add a footnote to "Spells per Day" on my character sheet and never roleplay it.

I like the others, especially Valiant Constitution. A nice way to represent someone who just keeps on going when lesser mortals would need to rest.

Thinker
2010-09-05, 09:54 AM
This is a nice mechanic that seems to augment (or replace) a hero point system fairly well. Still, I have a few comments about some of these. First, I think you should allow characters to take the same 1/day heroic feats additional times and simply increase the number of uses per day by one. Second, as worded Intrepid Dodge does not work while flat footed, but I think it would see far more mileage if it did. I think Mythic Moves should have a second feat (or second part to it) that allows an additional mode of movement for x rounds per day or something. Mythic Parry doesn't seem very good, but that seems to be the way most DR is. It seems like these feats become more useful the more of them that you take, but are they really better than other options for various builds? It is hard to say right now, but the Hero mechanic may need to be beefed up a bit in the future if that proves to be the case.

Fax Celestis
2010-09-05, 11:28 AM
Is d20r assuming the use of Action Points, or are they intended to provide an alternative?Alternative.


Any plans to integrate this with other d20r-specific mechanics?Absolutely.


This is a nice mechanic that seems to augment (or replace) a hero point system fairly well. Still, I have a few comments about some of these. First, I think you should allow characters to take the same 1/day heroic feats additional times and simply increase the number of uses per day by one.Good call.


Second, as worded Intrepid Dodge does not work while flat footed, but I think it would see far more mileage if it did.Why wouldn't it? Deflection bonuses work while flat-footed, and it has a specific "you can use this flat-footed" exemption.


I think Mythic Moves should have a second feat (or second part to it) that allows an additional mode of movement for x rounds per day or something.Good call.


It seems like these feats become more useful the more of them that you take, but are they really better than other options for various builds? It is hard to say right now, but the Hero mechanic may need to be beefed up a bit in the future if that proves to be the case.
We'll see how it goes.

Esser-Z
2010-09-05, 12:25 PM
Minor RAW note: Mythic Moves does not give a duration of the increase, and therefor lasts forever.

unosarta
2010-09-05, 12:52 PM
I don't know if you are doing Prestige Classes in d20r ever, but this would be an interesting Prestige Class, one that focuses on giving bonuses from Hero Value. Something like the Fatespinner, but with Hero Value, instead of luck bonuses.

Thinker
2010-09-05, 01:18 PM
Why wouldn't it? Deflection bonuses work while flat-footed, and it has a specific "you can use this flat-footed" exemption.


I somehow missed the Special section of that feat. Sorry.

Zemro
2010-09-05, 01:20 PM
Looks pretty solid, a few notes though:

Mythic Moves: Lacks a duration, as unosarta mentioned.
Mythic Parry: You've got the clause about being able to take the feat more then once listed twice.

Others look pretty good, could make an interesting character by just taking Heroic feats I think...

unosarta
2010-09-05, 01:23 PM
Looks pretty solid, a few notes though:

Mythic Moves: Lacks a duration, as unosarta mentioned.
Mythic Parry: You've got the clause about being able to take the feat more then once listed twice.

Others look pretty good, could make an interesting character by just taking Heroic feats I think...

Actually, Esser-Z mentioned it. I asked about a Heroic Prestige Class.

Otherwise, I agree with this post.

Fax Celestis
2010-09-05, 02:45 PM
Mythic Moves: Lacks a duration, as unosarta mentioned.Fix'd.

Mythic Parry: You've got the clause about being able to take the feat more then once listed twice.
Fix'd.

Moar heroic feats forthcoming.

Cute_Riolu
2010-09-05, 02:47 PM
Can you use Heroic Destiny when you would have otherwise died? That'd make it infinitely more useful, kind of like the spell Close Wounds.

Jane_Smith
2010-09-05, 02:53 PM
I think heroic strike should give the players option of an attack bonus, or bonus on caster level checks to overcome spell resistance, so its equally as good for martial or magic using classes - considering "Your highest ability modifier per day" makes it already a nice, meaty, general choice for -any- class, it should operate as such.

Fax Celestis
2010-09-05, 02:55 PM
Can you use Heroic Destiny when you would have otherwise died? That'd make it infinitely more useful, kind of like the spell Close Wounds.I can add that.


I think heroic strike should give the players option of an attack bonus, or bonus on caster level checks to overcome spell resistance, so its equally as good for martial or magic using classes - considering "Your highest ability modifier per day" makes it already a nice, meaty, general choice for -any- class, it should operate as such.

I was going to make a separate caster version. You think I should roll it into one?

Jane_Smith
2010-09-05, 03:06 PM
Heroic Strike [Heroic]
Benefit: A number of times per day equal to your highest ability modifier, when you make an attack or use a direct hit point damaging spell or spell-like ability, you may declare it to be a 'heroic strike'. Add your highest ability modifier to your attack roll, or as a bonus to caster level checks to overcome a targets spell resistance. If you hit, you deal extra damage equal to your hero value. If you miss, the ability is still used up for the day. Damaging spells that deal reduced or partial damage on a successful save by the affected targets only deal half your hero value in extra damage, rounded down, if they make a successful save.

Increase your hero value by 1.

Special: You may take this feat more than once. Each time beyond the first, increase the number of times per day you may use this feat by 2, but do not increase your hero value.



Whatcha think?

Thinker
2010-09-05, 06:59 PM
I was going to make a separate caster version. You think I should roll it into one?

Rolling it into one would be nice for gishes, who are usually (in 3.5e) feat-starved as-is. I don't think it would make the feat especially powerful, either.

Fax Celestis
2010-09-05, 10:38 PM
Whatcha think?

Yoinked! :smallcool:

Tael
2010-09-06, 09:45 AM
Heroic Strike is a bit weak. I'd up the Damage bonus to 2x Hero Value personally.

Fax Celestis
2010-09-06, 01:00 PM
Added Mythic Senses, Legendary Presence, Heroic Focus, Intrepid Glory, Intrepid Opportunity, Legendary Ambush, Legendary Lore, and Legendary Promise.

KaganMonk
2010-09-07, 08:36 AM
I don't quite understand the purpose behind Legendary Promise. You're using a feat to gain a feat the next level. You don't even get an increase to your Hero Value.

Fax Celestis
2010-09-07, 09:20 AM
I don't quite understand the purpose behind Legendary Promise. You're using a feat to gain a feat the next level. You don't even get an increase to your Hero Value.

Ever be one BAB short of a prereq?

Thinker
2010-09-07, 09:48 AM
Added Mythic Senses, Legendary Presence, Heroic Focus, Intrepid Glory, Intrepid Opportunity, Legendary Ambush, Legendary Lore, and Legendary Promise.

In addition to adding them to the OP, could you post new feats separately as well? Makes it easier to see them as a whole without digging back through for them.

Thinker
2010-09-07, 09:50 AM
Ever be one BAB short of a prereq?

It is nice to be able to take a feat as soon as you qualify and I have been 1 BAB, skill point, etc. of qualifying for a feat, but it has never been a case where I couldn't take another feat that is still helpful. I think that it should increase your hero level or maybe let you take a feat as if your BAB, skill point, or caster level were 1 higher.

Esser-Z
2010-09-07, 09:54 AM
Well, the feat lets you take the feat you want one or two levels, depending on when it's happening, sooner than you would normally get it, which matters for PrC prereqs and when leveling is slow and such.

Thinker
2010-09-07, 10:01 AM
Well, the feat lets you take the feat you want one or two levels, depending on when it's happening, sooner than you would normally get it, which matters for PrC prereqs and when leveling is slow and such.

That can be the case, but I've never seen a PrC where the thing you are waiting to qualify for is with the feat rather than the skill ranks, BAB, or caster level. I don't know Fax's plans for PrC's in d20r, I think that they should simply flat-out state a minimum level for entry (often instead of Skill Ranks X, BAB Y, Caster Level Z). It helps avoid shenanigans to get early entry. Those other prereqs should be used to show specialization of a class, i.e. Minimum 5 HD, BAB +5 would mean that full BAB classes could enter early, but still have to wait until 5th level.

Esser-Z
2010-09-07, 10:12 AM
I think I like this idea.

Person_Man
2010-09-07, 01:22 PM
These are a clear improvement over Luck feats from Complete Scoundrel, which are similar.

But I'm personally not a fan of "Per Day" game mechanics.

Once per day is too little to be useful unless everything in the game works on the same mechanic, which it doesn't. Melee builds are better off with "all day" feats like Power Attack, Knockdown, Knockback, et al, which work on every attack. Casters are better off with Metamagic.

A number of times per day equal to your highest ability modifier is somewhat better. But it strongly encourages SAD builds and penalizes melee builds, which require more rolls per encounter and per day. For example, Heroic Strike could be used by a caster to boost a Touch Attack every round of 2-3 combats, and the boost would essentially ensure that he hit at mid-high levels. Whereas a melee build, which makes 2+ normal attacks per round, would benefit far less.

So, good idea, as always. But if I were writing them, I might use a different mechanic.

Thinker
2010-09-07, 02:59 PM
These are a clear improvement over Luck feats from Complete Scoundrel, which are similar.

But I'm personally not a fan of "Per Day" game mechanics.

Once per day is too little to be useful unless everything in the game works on the same mechanic, which it doesn't. Melee builds are better off with "all day" feats like Power Attack, Knockdown, Knockback, et al, which work on every attack. Casters are better off with Metamagic.

A number of times per day equal to your highest ability modifier is somewhat better. But it strongly encourages SAD builds and penalizes melee builds, which require more rolls per encounter and per day. For example, Heroic Strike could be used by a caster to boost a Touch Attack every round of 2-3 combats, and the boost would essentially ensure that he hit at mid-high levels. Whereas a melee build, which makes 2+ normal attacks per round, would benefit far less.

So, good idea, as always. But if I were writing them, I might use a different mechanic.

If you were writing them what sort of recharge mechanic would you consider?

My biggest dislike of per-X mechanics is the idea that you can only do something once and then forget how to do it again for a while. Feats that are always active (like Power Attack, Knockback, etc.) don't suffer from this. Abilities that are magical or divine in nature can be explained away fairly easily. Even as written, your heroic destiny only affects your outcome a certain amount before you have to do it yourself.

There are other options, but I can't think of many that would keep these feats balanced with non all-day ones. A per encounter mechanic could keep them relevant, without making them too strong I suppose.

Person_Man
2010-09-07, 03:52 PM
If you were writing them what sort of recharge mechanic would you consider?

Well, it really depends on what power level Fax is aiming for. The feats as written offer a wide array of power levels. That's not necessarily a good or a bad thing. It's just that a Rogue who chooses Heroic Surge has gotten a lot less then a Wizard who chooses Heroic Strike.

A more balanced mechanic would use an Action Point pool of some sort - but then you create more book keeping. Or you could do a per encounter mechanic, and tone down the more powerful options. There's no right or wrong answer, it just depends on what Fax wants.

Violet Octopus
2010-09-08, 02:37 AM
Legendary Promise could grant a +1 bonus to hero value which disappears upon gaining that bonus feat.

MammonAzrael
2010-09-08, 05:36 AM
Out of the gate, I like these. "Hero Value" is a great idea, and feels muh more like a specific gaming item than half your character level. And it lets you modify that value. Excellent idea.

Onto specifics:


I'm a little worrid that Intrepid Glory might have some nasty potential, but that's just a gut feeling, and somethin I'm sure you have a better handle on, knowing your own classes.
Why is Legendary Promise a Heroic feat? It doesn't offer anything related to your Hero Value. Maybe if it increased your Hero Value by 1...but I'm not sure if that would be balanced.
Legendary Presence doesn't specify the action it takes to activate it. Nor does it have a unit of measurement.
As writen Mythic Recovery does not boost your Hero Value, was that intentional? The reminder text the the Special section implies that it should.
Valiant Constittion doesn't make sense. As writen you gain the temporary hit points at the start of each battle, without the need to activate it. So what is with the reminder text?
How many of your classes still use spell slots instead of some unique asting method like your Sorceror? Might make Valiant Magic not as good, or it might demand equivelent feats for the other methods of casting.


I liked the suggestion of a Heroic feat that added a charge to your racial abilities, felt like a nice way to help connect everything together.

Overall, great job, I like the feel. I agree with Person_Man that the per day abilities always feel a little off, but I'm not sure what your alternatives are since you're already using a pool of charges for your racial abilities.

Fax Celestis
2010-09-09, 01:26 PM
I'm a little worrid that Intrepid Glory might have some nasty potential, but that's just a gut feeling, and somethin I'm sure you have a better handle on, knowing your own classes.
Why is Legendary Promise a Heroic feat? It doesn't offer anything related to your Hero Value. Maybe if it increased your Hero Value by 1...but I'm not sure if that would be balanced.
Legendary Presence doesn't specify the action it takes to activate it. Nor does it have a unit of measurement.
As writen Mythic Recovery does not boost your Hero Value, was that intentional? The reminder text the the Special section implies that it should.
Valiant Constittion doesn't make sense. As writen you gain the temporary hit points at the start of each battle, without the need to activate it. So what is with the reminder text?
How many of your classes still use spell slots instead of some unique asting method like your Sorceror? Might make Valiant Magic not as good, or it might demand equivelent feats for the other methods of casting.


I liked the suggestion of a Heroic feat that added a charge to your racial abilities, felt like a nice way to help connect everything together.

Largely addressed, I think.

MammonAzrael
2010-09-09, 05:59 PM
Yup. And the rest of the Heroic feats can be added once your various classes are polished. Roughly one for each general mechanic.

Great job!