GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread III

[ErrantX]

The old chat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5965327) threads (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142083) were getting crazy big, so we're starting a new one!

Current Contest is: My Life in Runes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203247)

Past Contests:
Contest XXVII: Epically Destined (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197033)
Contest XXVI: Eastern Exposure (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190418)
Contest XXV: It's a Race Thing (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185378)
Contest XXIV: Good Will Towards Men (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179661)
Contest XXIII: Hybrid Theory II (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173986)
Contest XXII: Darkness on the Playground (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168897)
Contest XXI: It's Only Natural (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163610)
Contest XX: In the Shadows (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157490)
Contest XIX: Power is a Gish best served Bold! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152106)
Contest XVIII: Power Corrupts! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147394)
Contest XVII: Mono e Mono (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142095)
Contest XVI: Live and Die by the Sword (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136489)
Contest XV: Where The Wyld Things Are (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131375)
Contest XIV: Hybrid Theory (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126592)
Contest XIII: Music and Lyrics (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121195)
Contest XII: Can we Rebuild it? Yes we can! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116389)
Contest XI: Fallen, yet not Forgotten (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111855)
Contest X: Draw, Partner! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108730)
Contest IX: It's Morphin' Time! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105490)
Contest VIII: Bow down to my Fist! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101782)
Contest VII: It's Elementary! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98294)
Contest VI: The Mind is a Terrible Thing to Waste (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95505)
Contest V: Champion of the Common Man (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92606)
Contest IV: My Faith is Unswerving (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89760)
Contest III: We Band of Brothers (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86443)
Contest II: Soul Power! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84454&highlight=Contest)
Contest I: Test My Sword, Meet Your End (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81990&highlight=Contest)

Picture Contests (by the Witchking)
Current Contest: TBA
Worth a Thousand Words II (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125849)
Worth a Thousand Words 1 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6512299) - The Witchlamp by TSED

-X

[ErrantX]

They lock em up at 50 or thereabouts, so being preemptive here and starting a new one.

Current contest ends tomorrow at Midnight (Central Time). Finish up and let's get ready for the voting!

-X

[Glimbur]

I am unable to post the revised text of my class anywhere. I also cannot edit the class in the official thread. At this point, I figure I'll just leave the unrevised class up in the thread.

This is the strangest bug I have ever encountered.

[JoshuaZ]

I am unable to post the revised text of my class anywhere. I also cannot edit the class in the official thread. At this point, I figure I'll just leave the unrevised class up in the thread.

This is the strangest bug I have ever encountered.

Have you posted in the Board Site/Issues forum about this?

[Vaynor]

If you want, I could edit in the revised class for you. Just send me a PM with the class included.

Edit: Have you considered deleting the post and simply posting the revised one? Never mind you said you couldn't edit, duh. Maybe just post the new one and ask to have the first ignored?

[zagan]

Current contest ends tomorrow at Midnight (Central Time). Finish up and let's get ready for the voting!

-X

Already ? Wow i was sure that i still got a few day. Well i will peach immediatly the two last class then:
I appologized if it's a little short.

Evolved warg

No image ?

The fluff is short but interesting.

Race: this seem like a very original idea at the first glance but i would have just include those bonus and penality as a first level ability in the Prc seem easier to me. Any specific reason for why you've gone this route ?

Prereq: A little weird ability score are rarely used for prc and more for feat. Perhaps too easy too but you also need to find the way to become an evolved warg so it add a roleplaying requirement.

Skill, Bab, saves: Why not fort save ? Seem to make more sense to me.

Feral Charge: Original ability. The per day limit is a little harsh per encounter would make more sense.

Weapons of the wolf: Weird mechanic of growing the weapon during the attack but seem fine otherwise.

Nimble Charge: okay, interesting.

Rend and Tear: So it's a pseudo pounce if you succed on a bull-rush. It's an original idea.

Furious Charge: But he get pounce the next level only on feral charge. Not terrible.

Bestial Heart: This one is good.

Agile charge: Much better. Can it be used even without obstacle ?

Rebounding Charge: Very cool idea.

Soul of the Predator: underwhelming capstone but logical.

Fluff: you need to finish it otherwose the class is disqualified.

Conclusions: I'm not very impressed, but for a first try it's not bad just need more polishing.


Child of the Seelie Court:

Very nice image even if it strech the screen a little.
i really like the fluff too.
Having two version of the class for both male and female is original.

Prereq: Seem fine

Skills Nice but perhaps lot of skill point for a spellcasting/manifesting class.

Bab, saves: just a niptick, you forget to put + before the number in the saves column.

No line for weapon and armor prof ? None gain I assume but it's traditional.

Spell/Power: Standard.

Ecstatic Surge: Nice but seem better for wilder than sorcerer despite the surpassing max aspect.

Fey Bond: Why calling it fey bond when it's just nymph kiss as a bonus feat ?
The bonus to fey heritage feat is nice.

Fey Knowledge: nice that.

Heritage feat: that's good too. It allow you to gain all 5 feat.

Greater Heritage: All bonus seem very good and would probably be a hard choice.

Fey Ascension: Gaining the fey type and further bonus from a feat, Hard choice again.

Fluff: Very good too, and well detailled.

Spell:
Call Nature's Defenders: Whoa, one spell that replace the whole summone monster line. Less versatility but for sorcerer it's awesome.
excellent idea.

Call of the Wild: Okay, perhaps a bit strong but with this casting time and the requirement of the four feat it should be alright. Good idea.

Fairy Wings: Good one too.

Fairy Wings: Luck reroll again ? Good spell even with the requirement 3rd level sound better to me. But I might overly cautious.

Hands of the Forest: arcane healing cool.

Natural Bond: Cool but I'm sure it would see use often.

One with the World: Nice.

Unearthly Grace: No problem either.

Wild Transformation: Interesting too and not overpowered like some other polymorph spell.

Only complaint about this spell is that they should also be on the bard spell list.

Power:
Equilavent of the spell so no particular comment but the augmentation for some of look nice.

Conclusions: Very good work expanding on those underused fey heritage feat. And the spell and power are really cool.
Only two complaint the spell should be aviable to bard and the surge ablity benefit wilder more than sorcerer.

Again sorry if it's a little short.

[Glimbur]

If you want, I could edit in the revised class for you. Just send me a PM with the class included.

Edit: Have you considered deleting the post and simply posting the revised one? Never mind you said you couldn't edit, duh. Maybe just post the new one and ask to have the first ignored?

At this point I probably look mad, but it won't PM either. May I send it to your e-mail account instead?

[Vaynor]

Does the post contain the word "lynx", perchance?

Edit: Yes go ahead and e-mail me, but I suspect the above word may be the problem. Try removing it from the post or placing a white-text character immediately after it (no space). I remember people having problems posting "lynx" with a space after it. Just tried it and that's most likely the problem, with this contest being about nature. Something to do with an illegal combination of characters, I'm not sure if there's a way to fix it.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

"Lynx" ... heh. Gotta remember that one.

[Vaynor]

Yeah it's pretty odd, not sure why it happens.

Turns out that wasn't the problem, though. It's weird that it wouldn't let him post his entry anywhere on the site (even in a PM).

Oh well, I've changed it for him now.

[Glimbur]

Huzzah! Thank you.

[Vaynor]

No problem. :smallsmile:

[PId6]

@zagan

Already ? Wow i was sure that i still got a few day. Well i will peach immediatly the two last class then:
Thanks; always appreciated.


Skills Nice but perhaps lot of skill point for a spellcasting/manifesting class.
It's meant to be more fey-like, hence the d6 HD, good Ref saves, and 6+Int skill points. I figured it would be fine given the loss of caster level at 1st level.


Bab, saves: just a niptick, you forget to put + before the number in the saves column.
Changed.


No line for weapon and armor prof ? None gain I assume but it's traditional.
I'm following the format from later books, namely Complete Mage, where the armor/weapon proficiency line doesn't appear unless the class actually provides it. It doesn't really make sense to have it there when the vast majority of PrCs don't get any anyways.


Ecstatic Surge: Nice but seem better for wilder than sorcerer despite the surpassing max aspect.
Yeah, that is true. Still, there are some nice things you can use it for, especially powerful spells like Alter Self, Contingency, and Polymorph. I tried to make most of the new spells vary based on caster level as well so that this is more useful.


Fey Bond: Why calling it fey bond when it's just nymph kiss as a bonus feat ?
Because Nymph's Kiss is exalted, and the class allows neutral entrants. Nymph's Kiss fit the flavor of the class quite well, but I didn't want the association with Exalted Good to be there, so I made the ability a functional equivalent.


Call Nature's Defenders: Whoa, one spell that replace the whole summone monster line. Less versatility but for sorcerer it's awesome.
excellent idea.
Yeah, I hated how Summon Monster is basically worthless for sorcerers, and wanted something similar to Astral Construct for arcane casters. The execution isn't as elegant as Astral Construct, but it works well enough and I like the result.


Feywyld Luck: Luck reroll again ? Good spell even with the requirement 3rd level sound better to me. But I might overly cautious.
Heh, yeah, a bit of a rehash. Still, I like the idea of leprechauns granting people good luck, so I made this. I wanted a few extra options for Fey Knowledge as well. Since it does require an extra feat and it takes actions to use luck rerolls, I decided to err on the side of making it a bit too good rather than a bit too weak. Overall, it's probably fine by itself, though it may be too strong when used alongside my other luck spells. Oh well.


Wild Transformation: Interesting too and not overpowered like some other polymorph spell.
Haha, glad I didn't make it be based off Wild Shape then. :smalltongue:


Only complaint about this spell is that they should also be on the bard spell list.
You're absolutely right. Added now. That also opens up the PrC to bard entry, which isn't bad especially with Sublime Chord. The interaction with Call Nature's Defenders will be a bit weird, but that can't be helped.


Only two complaint the spell should be aviable to bard and the surge ablity benefit wilder more than sorcerer.
Fixed the first. For the second, I added an extra bit so that it lets you use metamagic without increasing casting time while surging. It's not huge, but it may save you a feat on Rapid Metamagic, and does tip the balance a little. Better?


Again sorry if it's a little short.
No problem. You've been very helpful. :smallsmile:

[TheAmishPirate]

I realize it's a bit late, but I really haven't had the time to finish my entry since school started. However, I still like what I have so far, so I think I will work on it later when I won't churn out a terrible rush job. Good luck to the current entries, there's some REALLY awesome stuff going on here.

I'm still keeping an eye on these contests, so I think I'll make a better attempt in a later month.

-zagan


Race: this seem like a very original idea at the first glance but i would have just include those bonus and penality as a first level ability in the Prc seem easier to me. Any specific reason for why you've gone this route ?

I originally did, but I dropped them on one of the many changes in when abilities were earned. I'll give it some thought when I revise it next.


Prereq: A little weird ability score are rarely used for prc and more for feat. Perhaps too easy too but you also need to find the way to become an evolved warg so it add a roleplaying requirement.

I'll put some thought into that. This is meant to be a more martial class PrC, but I suppose I can make it a bit harder.


Skill, Bab, saves: Why not fort save ? Seem to make more sense to me.

Yeah, you're probably right there.


Feral Charge: Original ability. The per day limit is a little harsh per encounter would make more sense.

I actually completely forgot you could do things on a per-encounter basis. That's a much better idea.


Rend and Tear: So it's a pseudo pounce if you succed on a bull-rush. It's an original idea.

I wanted this to work with the Rebounding Charge, since the pounce ability would end the chain.


Agile charge: Much better. Can it be used even without obstacle ?

Yes, and that's a good thing to specify. Nice catch.


Soul of the Predator: underwhelming capstone but logical.

I was actually worried about it being too powerful. I had one more ability that was attached to this and Bestial Heart that I dropped for balance reasons. It was a bloodlust-type deal where killing an enemy gave a chance to gain a couple of bonuses, or each enemy killed per encounter would give a bonus for a short time. I think I could work that into something a little more interesting and tack it back in.


Fluff: you need to finish it otherwose the class is disqualified.

Yeah, I was planning on working on this for the past two weeks, but school absolutely wrecked my free time, more than I thought it would. I still have some cool stuff written up, so it's definitely getting finished eventually. :smallwink:


Conclusions: I'm not very impressed, but for a first try it's not bad just need more polishing.

Well thanks a bunch! It's good to know that your work isn't a complete pile of junk.

[zagan]

PId6


It's meant to be more fey-like, hence the d6 HD, good Ref saves, and 6+Int skill points. I figured it would be fine given the loss of caster level at 1st level.

Okay, why not. They're Cha based anyway so it's not abusive.



I'm following the format from later books, namely Complete Mage, where the armor/weapon proficiency line doesn't appear unless the class actually provides it. It doesn't really make sense to have it there when the vast majority of PrCs don't get any anyways.


Didn't notice that.



Yeah, that is true. Still, there are some nice things you can use it for, especially powerful spells like Alter Self, Contingency, and Polymorph. I tried to make most of the new spells vary based on caster level as well so that this is more useful.


Okay.


Because Nymph's Kiss is exalted, and the class allows neutral entrants. Nymph's Kiss fit the flavor of the class quite well, but I didn't want the association with Exalted Good to be there, so I made the ability a functional equivalent.

Didn't remember that detail.



Yeah, I hated how Summon Monster is basically worthless for sorcerers, and wanted something similar to Astral Construct for arcane casters. The execution isn't as elegant as Astral Construct, but it works well enough and I like the result.

It's quite good.


Heh, yeah, a bit of a rehash. Still, I like the idea of leprechauns granting people good luck, so I made this. I wanted a few extra options for Fey Knowledge as well. Since it does require an extra feat and it takes actions to use luck rerolls, I decided to err on the side of making it a bit too good rather than a bit too weak. Overall, it's probably fine by itself, though it may be too strong when used alongside my other luck spells. Oh well.

Sure.


You're absolutely right. Added now. That also opens up the PrC to bard entry, which isn't bad especially with Sublime Chord. The interaction with Call Nature's Defenders will be a bit weird, but that can't be helped.

Great.



Fixed the first. For the second, I added an extra bit so that it lets you use metamagic without increasing casting time while surging. It's not huge, but it may save you a feat on Rapid Metamagic, and does tip the balance a little. Better?

It help balance it, avoid a feat tax as you said so that's good.
Thinking about it you could allow the class to progress the familiar if any. Fit the nature theme and not too powerfull. But as his it's alright.


No problem. You've been very helpful. :smallsmile:

:smallsmile:



TheAmishPirate



I actually completely forgot you could do things on a per-encounter basis. That's a much better idea.

Great.



I wanted this to work with the Rebounding Charge, since the pounce ability would end the chain.

Ah i didn't see that combo, nice idea !


Yes, and that's a good thing to specify. Nice catch.

Thanks.


I was actually worried about it being too powerful. I had one more ability that was attached to this and Bestial Heart that I dropped for balance reasons. It was a bloodlust-type deal where killing an enemy gave a chance to gain a couple of bonuses, or each enemy killed per encounter would give a bonus for a short time. I think I could work that into something a little more interesting and tack it back in.

That sound like a very good idea.


Yeah, I was planning on working on this for the past two weeks, but school absolutely wrecked my free time, more than I thought it would. I still have some cool stuff written up, so it's definitely getting finished eventually. :smallwink:

It happen don't worry about it.


Well thanks a bunch! It's good to know that your work isn't a complete pile of junk.

You'll get better, for a first try (?) it was quite good. I'm really ashamed of my own first try so don't worry. :smallwink:

[DragoonWraith]

Finally updated Deadwood with references to the Children of the Mausoleum. Lord_Gareth, I'd love your input into whether I've gotten that right; it sounds good to you.

Need to rethink the Cleric requirements still... Did that. Feedback would be most appreciated.

Also, I am at like 49,990 characters. Argh.

[JoshuaZ]

Need to rethink the Cleric requirements still... Did that. Feedback would be most appreciated.


Maybe instead of Greater Spell Focus(Necromancy) require Skill Focus-Knowledge(Nature)? That fits with the idea that they want clerics more attuned to nature?

[unosarta]

Any more critiques or comments on the Child of Petriel before the contest is done? I don't have much time, but anything would be appreciated. :smallsmile:

[DragoonWraith]

Maybe instead of Greater Spell Focus(Necromancy) require Skill Focus-Knowledge(Nature)? That fits with the idea that they want clerics more attuned to nature?
That's... a very good idea. Hrm.

[JoshuaZ]

Any more critiques or comments on the Child of Petriel before the contest is done? I don't have much time, but anything would be appreciated. :smallsmile:

The class as a whole seems well done.

A few quick thoughts- Should Ecstatic Surge count as Wild Surge for prerequisite purposes? This might make sense but would then require all sorts of hard thinking about how relevant PrCs and feats interacted with it so this is probably not a good idea.

Fey Knowledge- I'd add a quick note that spells and powers learned this way do not count against your total number of spells known. Also, you may want to specify if spells and powers learned this way go to just one spellcasting/manifesting class or all of them (relevant if for example a sorcerer/bard takes levels in the class.)

[unosarta]

The class as a whole seems well done.

A few quick thoughts- Should Ecstatic Surge count as Wild Surge for prerequisite purposes? This might make sense but would then require all sorts of hard thinking about how relevant PrCs and feats interacted with it so this is probably not a good idea.

Fey Knowledge- I'd add a quick note that spells and powers learned this way do not count against your total number of spells known. Also, you may want to specify if spells and powers learned this way go to just one spellcasting/manifesting class or all of them (relevant if for example a sorcerer/bard takes levels in the class.)

Um... wrong class.

Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9112913&postcount=3) is what I was asking about. I think you are thinking of Children of the Seelie Court, which is PId6's Prestige Class.

[JoshuaZ]

Um... wrong class.

Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9112913&postcount=3) is what I was asking about. I think you are thinking of Children of the Seelie Court, which is PId6's Prestige Class.

:smallredface: Oops. Right. Um, looking at yours now. :smallredface:

Prerequisites-
Where is Hawks Vision from? I'm not familiar with that feat. (In general when using feats outside core it isn't a bad idea to note what book they are from).
Survival- why require 9 ranks? Is there a balance issue here that I'm not seeing? 8 ranks would seem to be enough and then let's one take the first level of the PrC at 6th level. This forces one to start taking it at 7th level.

The capstone is well done and captures the flavor well.

Some description of what House Petriel is would be nice (how is it organized? What do are their goals? Etc.)

[unosarta]

:smallredface: Oops. Right. Um, looking at yours now. :smallredface:
Oh, it's no problem. :smallwink:


Prerequisites-
Where is Hawks Vision from? I'm not familiar with that feat. (In general when using feats outside core it isn't a bad idea to note what book they are from).
Survival- why require 9 ranks? Is there a balance issue here that I'm not seeing? 8 ranks would seem to be enough and then let's one take the first level of the PrC at 6th level. This forces one to start taking it at 7th level.
Hawk's Vision is from Complete Adventurer. I will note it in the prerequisites. Also, the maximum ranks are your level +3. So, the maximum for Survival at level 6 is 9.


The capstone is well done and captures the flavor well.
Thanks.


Some description of what House Petriel is would be nice (how is it organized? What do are their goals? Etc.)
OK, will do. Thanks!

Also, where would I detail House Petriel? I am assuming as an organization at the bottom of the post. Of course, they are kind of too loose to be an organization. I will write one up anyway.


[Edit]: Also, I was thinking that the prerequisite would be any one Wild feat, instead of just Hawk's Vision. Thoughts?

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Where is Hawks Vision from?
{Scrubbed}

The above is the motherlode. Tell it to search 'all' feats. It's got pretty much every official 3.0/3.5 feat ever made.

Specifically: {Scrubbed}

[unosarta]

OK, now I have House Petriel written up and everything is updated. Any other comments or concerns on balance or fluff?

[JoshuaZ]

OK, now I have House Petriel written up and everything is updated. Any other comments or concerns on balance or fluff?

Looks good (I'm guessing that House Petriel is part of some larger setting with Elven houses and the like?). Overall, I like it.

[unosarta]

Looks good (I'm guessing that House Petriel is part of some larger setting with Elven houses and the like?). Overall, I like it.

I linked it at the very bottom of the page. It is my homebrew campaign setting. Basically, if you don't want to read it, there is an "overgod" (he isn't the real overgod of the setting, but likes to think he is), and he sent down "angels" (called angele), in order to protect mortals from the devastating beasts and monsters of the Primal Gods (magical beasts and elementals, really). Those Angele were all women, incredible fighters, blah, blah, blah. So, they were not content with just watching over the mortal races and teaching them to protect themselves. So, the Angele started taking up mortal lovers. This wasn't really a bad thing, necessarily. The mortals could sort of handle it, and everything was cool. The children of the Angele were the Elves; of mortal and divine blood. They couldn't really rely on their parents for support, so a large group found an island off new human lands, and stayed there. They named it Veshre.

Because it was all but impossible for the "overgod" to appear to the mortals, they started worshiping Angele as sort of "faux" gods. This angered the "overgod," and he decided to punish the Angele. So, he sent in his other servants the Diablo. They were almost the opposite of the Angele, male, but weak in battle. They were very proficient in magic, though, and quickly and silently found their former allies the Angele, and took them out, sending all but one into a coma, and hiding them (once they have been on the material plane, they can never return to his plane). The one that escaped went to the north, and parlayed with the Orcs.

Anyway, so, when the Angele left, the Elves started taking over. This is also the point where House Petriel ran away from Veshre, and found their way into the deserts of the south, and the forests of the north. They thought that because they were more physically beautiful than the other races, and the descendants of the Angele, that they deserved to rule the other races. They created a vast empire, that had a hold over the gnomes and the humans, but not stretching up into the area of the kobolds (who probably would have kicked Elvin butt anyway), and not to the Vorde.

When they were finally defeated, the Humans and Gnomes were all but out of resources, the Elves were trounced, and pushed all the way back to their first island. It was at this point that the children of the Primal Gods started their major invasions. It was also the point during which the Diablo came to the leaders of almost every race (excepting the Dwarves, who are too nomadic to be found, the Druids, who worship their own god, and the Kobolds, who would have attacked them on sight), and offered to teach them magic, if they would pledge to worship the "overgod" and only him. Almost everyone agreed. This is close to the point that the timeline is currently in, probably 100 years before that point.

This was just a basic summary. If you want to read more, I would recommend reading the actual thread, located Here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163779)

[PId6]

The class as a whole seems well done.
Heh, unintended, but thanks for the look over anyway. :smallwink:


A few quick thoughts- Should Ecstatic Surge count as Wild Surge for prerequisite purposes? This might make sense but would then require all sorts of hard thinking about how relevant PrCs and feats interacted with it so this is probably not a good idea.
Not doing this since it can lead to weird interactions where an arcane caster satisfies Wild Surge requirements. I doubt it would affect much anyways, since very few things I know of require Wild Surge +3 or higher.


Fey Knowledge- I'd add a quick note that spells and powers learned this way do not count against your total number of spells known. Also, you may want to specify if spells and powers learned this way go to just one spellcasting/manifesting class or all of them (relevant if for example a sorcerer/bard takes levels in the class.)
Done. I made it add it to all classes since that helps Bard/Sublime Chords quite a bit.

Thanks for the comments!

[unosarta]

I added the racial statistics for Elves of House Petriel, since it stands to reason that they would get different ability scores bonuses and penalties, as well as other racial abilities.

Any other comments on the Child of Petriel? If not, I am done. :smallsmile:

[Lord_Gareth]

Finally updated Deadwood with references to the Children of the Mausoleum. Lord_Gareth, I'd love your input into whether I've gotten that right; it sounds good to you.

Need to rethink the Cleric requirements still... Did that. Feedback would be most appreciated.

Also, I am at like 49,990 characters. Argh.

I like it ^_^ It should be noted that nothing stops a character from having both classes, either.

[ErrantX]

I like it ^_^ It should be noted that nothing stops a character from having both classes, either.

It would be a very understandable mix, actually.

-X

[DragoonWraith]

Certainly would, and I don't think the fluff I wrote rejects that - just means the author herself isn't, and probably hasn't run into one.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Hey Errant, if you ask one of the homebrew admins they'll probably set up a poll for you if you like.

[Fable Wright]

Errant, you also might want to consider updating the link in your sig, too. So, when can we vote?

[ErrantX]

Sorry guys, had a REALLY busy day. I'll get the voting thread open in just a minute... and yes, if I could have an admin make it a poll, that'd be awesome. With the new mods around, especially active homebrewers to boot, I think voting will be a lot smoother.

-X

[ErrantX]

Okay, voting thread is up. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167654)

I know a lot of you may balk at this, but half of you didn't fulfill the contest requirements visa vi the fluff requirements. Sorry guys, but I can't put you in. Consider putting these classes out on the board proper?

Anyway, voting ends on the 17th. Vote!

-X

[Vaynor]

I've gone ahead and added a poll to the thread. Good luck, everyone! :smallsmile:

[JoshuaZ]

Errant, maybe include a link in your top post in the voting thread to the thread with the different PrCs that way people don't have to go search for it? (It is linked in your sig but that's not an obvious place to look.)

[boomwolf]

Nature ain't my shtick. I'll pass on voting this time around.

Wonder whats next though...

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Nature ain't my shtick. I'll pass on voting this time around.

Wonder whats next though...
Creeepy evil...

[unosarta]

Creeepy evil...

Dang it, I knew I should have waited to post the Bridger of Death. Well, they aren't necessarily creepy, after all, but it sort of would fit that category.
Oh, and I feel terrible that I have already made my monster for the next Monster Contest based on barely dropped hints. At least it is done already.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Dang it, I knew I should have waited to post the Bridger of Death. Well, they aren't necessarily creepy, after all, but it sort of would fit that category.
Oh, and I feel terrible that I have already made my monster for the next Monster Contest based on barely dropped hints. At least it is done already.
There's only one dude on this board that knows what the theme will be next month, and that's only because he's doing the trophies. That'd be a fun theme though, beasts based on rumor and hearsay :smallwink:

[unosarta]

There's only one dude on this board that knows what the theme will be next month, and that's only because he's doing the trophies. That'd be a fun theme though, beasts based on rumor and hearsay :smallwink:

Meh. I was in the mood for Lovecraftian beasties. Actually, not a bad idea. Since the dragons appear to be based on metals, but are also elements, I want to make an Ununbium dragon now. :smallamused:

Technically not a metal. But still awesome.

[ErrantX]

New contest is up:

PrC Contest XXII: Darkness on the Playground (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168897)

This is kind of a spooky / dark contest for Halloween, so either make monsters, monster hunters, or something that fits the spirit of it. I've included numerous examples, feel free to snag those if you'd like.

Enjoy! And as always, ask questions if you have them!

-X

[Fable Wright]

Best. Theme. Ever!!!:smallbiggrin:

Also, would an artificer who specialized in making golems count with the theme?
Things like this:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_qTxgf8uqjbQ/TGrU_ANqd8I/AAAAAAAAKpA/RVG0WkGFxgg/s1600/Scars+Mirrodin+Wurmcoil+Engine.jpg
Would that count?

[ErrantX]

Quick question to pose to the contest participants: There has been a lot of homebrew lately that involves necromancy, so... should we allow homebrew sources? Lord_Gareth's Harrowed, or BladeofOblivion has a thread with a lot of good feats in it, JoshuaZ's Narrow Bridge martial discipline, etc. Using these as sources for new Prestige Classes might be neat.

Just a thought to throw out there. Thoughts?

-X

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Congrats Dragoon, I almost gotcha :smallamused:


Gonna love this theme...

[Fable Wright]

Also, would an artificer who specialized in making golems count with the theme?
Things like this:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_qTxgf8uqjbQ/TGrU_ANqd8I/AAAAAAAAKpA/RVG0WkGFxgg/s1600/Scars+Mirrodin+Wurmcoil+Engine.jpg
Would that count?

Reposted, in case it got missed. It would specialize in making temporary golems for combat. And making undead.

[boomwolf]

Creatures of pure evil...
...
...
...

Yea, I can work with that. already made a Soul Devourer once, and he is possibly the greatest force of evil possible out there.


I'll probably go for "Fiendblood Infuser" (name is WIP). if you ever watch "supernatural", think sam. just more fiendish. if you didn't: consume the blood of various fiend to gain various bonuses. most noticeably a reflection of their own abilities, but some generic "vs all fiend" abilities. (banishment ability, dominating weaker ones, etc...)


I vote against using preexisting homebrew BTW-it cuts down on originality.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

I'll probably go for "Fiendblood Infuser" (name is WIP). if you ever watch "supernatural", think sam. just more fiendish.
...that'd be awesome. - Big Supernatural Fan

[BladeofOblivion]

BladeofOblivion has a thread with a lot of good feats in it

Nice to see positive comments about my stuff!

I might actually enter something this time, actually. Just today, ten minutes BEFORE seeing the new theme, I came up with an Idea for a Warrior corrupted by evil that has class abilities that drain souls from the people he kills that he can use as fuel for his class abilities. Evil beyond belief, but still awesome.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

I've an idea in my head for some time that I could have great fun with, but not sure if it's been done before.

'The Monstrumologist', a guy who devotes his life to the study, capturing and dissection of all things that prey on man.

Prerequisites including Collector of Stories skill trick.

Will have the ability to cast calmly even while being swallowed whole, or his arm being blasted off, etc.

Anyone know of anything like this being done previously?

[boomwolf]

Nice to see positive comments about my stuff!

I might actually enter something this time, actually. Just today, ten minutes BEFORE seeing the new theme, I came up with an Idea for a Warrior corrupted by evil that has class abilities that drain souls from the people he kills that he can use as fuel for his class abilities. Evil beyond belief, but still awesome.

Soul Devourer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6472467) would like to have a word with you.

[DrWeird]

I've got a decent *but* very Lovecraft-inspired idea I will have a crack with. Get back to you later with more.

[Lord_Gareth]

Quick question to pose to the contest participants: There has been a lot of homebrew lately that involves necromancy, so... should we allow homebrew sources? Lord_Gareth's Harrowed, or BladeofOblivion has a thread with a lot of good feats in it, JoshuaZ's Narrow Bridge martial discipline, etc. Using these as sources for new Prestige Classes might be neat.

Just a thought to throw out there. Thoughts?

-X

Honestly, I don't know why homebrew wasn't allowed in the first place.

Also - Hahahahahaha, hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[boomwolf]

Crap. with Garth AND Tribble, this one gonna be damn hard. especially considering the theme is Garth's home field.

[Lord_Gareth]

I find myself very deeply regretting the fact that Roland put an axe in my Knights Miraculous idea. Go go baby-eating, soul-damning rapists....just not on these forums. I'll have to dance like a Vrock to get a truly evil idea past the radar.

Tribble, I say this unto thee - En Guarde!

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

*cracks knuckles*

Now this one I can do something with. :smallamused:

[Fable Wright]

Ok- finally got my idea hammered out: A half-progression spellcasting class that grants invocations necromancer who builds giant machines of death using the powers of hell-bound souls. Hopefully, this might get third place (After VT and Lord_Gareth).

[BladeofOblivion]

Soul Devourer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6472467) would like to have a word with you.

I realize that "Warrior" is a very general term, but my Inspiration was actually Nightmare from the Soulcalibur series. I actually meant a fullplate armored Knight with a very large sword. Not exactly the same thing, and I would of course design it differently from your creation, perhaps even using a completely different soul-harvesting system. My idea included choosing one of three class abilities at each level to allow for greater variation and different types of fighting. For example, the first power chosen might be a Death-Knell-like ability chosen to grab souls more efficiently, or temporarily empowering a Blade with a soul to add bonus fire damage, or empowering your armor with a soul to increase its defensive ability. The concept is similar, but there are only so many of those to go around.

[Lord_Gareth]

*cracks knuckles*

Now this one I can do something with. :smallamused:

That trophy will be mine, you bottled freak! Lord Asmodeus will grant me victory! Souls, come unto me!

*Devours countless souls for the power to defeat Djinn*

[BladeofOblivion]

Souls, come unto me!

At least I'm not the only fan!

I am... *Swing* *Stab* ...Your greatest Nightmare!

[Demons_eye]

I was going to enter but I now ask myself if it is worthwhile. :smalltongue:

I was thinking about a boogieman type or something along the lines of a dream eater.

[Lord_Gareth]

Alrighty folks, some ideas:

The Knights of Mockery serve Mirali Kall, a goddess of searing light, cruel truths, reflection and undeath. Cruel knights serving a cruel goddess, the Knights of Mockery seek glory and heroism at any cost, and will commune with demons, drain the power from captive souls, and turn the power of light against the forces of righteousness that dare lay claim to it.

The fiends of the lower planes whisper nightmarish tales of the Lords of Rusted Iron. Mortal fiend hunters, the Lords of Rusted Iron track down summoned or free-willed fiends and trap them in runes made of iron flakes that they then bind into their weapons, dwellings, or even themselves, growing ever-more powerful with every foe dragged screaming into eternal enslavement.

[boomwolf]

CRAP! djinn too?

BladeofOblivion-actually, same inspiration. and note that he CAN use his collected souls to impower blade attacks, or put up a shield effect. among alot of other things.


Anyway, already round granted abilities for MOST demon and devils that I am going with. (only core for now. will add "adaptation" clause that the DM might want to consider granted powers by other demon types. either going for closest thing on the list, or making something new, generally a weaker variation of that fiend's signature ability.)

[ErrantX]

I dunno, points to someone who makes a Harrowed or an ebon initiate based prestige class, that's all I'm saying :P

-X

[Lord_Gareth]

CRAP! djinn too?

We will reclaim
All in our name
Hopes turn to black
When we come back! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ftld7Ohojg)

[BladeofOblivion]

BladeofOblivion-actually, same inspiration. and note that he CAN use his collected souls to impower blade attacks, or put up a shield effect. among alot of other things.

Fine. I prefer originality anyway. But I will come back, to end it all! Maybe. If you guys don't horribly crush me just because.

[unosarta]

Alrighty folks, some ideas:

The Knights of Mockery serve Mirali Kall, a goddess of searing light, cruel truths, reflection and undeath. Cruel knights serving a cruel goddess, the Knights of Mockery seek glory and heroism at any cost, and will commune with demons, drain the power from captive souls, and turn the power of light against the forces of righteousness that dare lay claim to it.

The fiends of the lower planes whisper nightmarish tales of the Lords of Rusted Iron. Mortal fiend hunters, the Lords of Rusted Iron track down summoned or free-willed fiends and trap them in runes made of iron flakes that they then bind into their weapons, dwellings, or even themselves, growing ever-more powerful with every foe dragged screaming into eternal enslavement.


Knights of Mockery sounds fun.

And no, it is not because I plan on doing the Cabalist of the Heinous Realms, who sounds very similar to the Lords of Rusted Iron, albeit not with the Seidkona feel going on. Definitely not. :smallwink:

[Hyooz]

This is an interesting contest for me... I think I'm going to take some time to dwell on what I think is the worst kind of evil/darkness. Define real, true evil to myself.

I mean, sure I'm entering a contest where Gareth, Djinn, VT, and DW will be the only ones in the running, but hey, I can dream of miracles.

[unosarta]

I mean, sure I'm entering a contest where Gareth, Djinn, VT, and DW will be the only ones in the running, but hey, I can dream of miracles.

I think this goes for all of us. :smallfrown:
:smalltongue:Except Gareth, Djinn, VT and DW, of course.

[DrWeird]

So here's my initial idea: Psionically gifted find themselves suddenly contacted and channeling the voice of a 'God', who claims he has come to end the unrest of life and divine on the Material Plane, and those who hear this call become his prophet, spreading the word of their Savior Deity who would save all from themselves.

...In fact, this is no mighty overdeity, come to save anyone. He is an unspeakable blaspheme from beyond our spheres of comprehension, located in the daunting impossibility of the Far Realm, and is even quite ancient as far as that horrible place goes. However, his power is so great, so interwoven beyond the capabilities of any mortal or mundane Outsider into the Far Realm's naturally unnatural being, that he is trapped there and as much a part of the Far Realm as the Far Realm is of him - but he's truly there, and he hungers for the Material Plane in an almost mindless lust for consumption (among...other things). He is, unfortunately for us, as malign as he is intelligent. As such, he does not attempt to rip holes in the fabric of reality like some enraged beast, instead opting to let his endless dreams of unrelenting abnormality drift into the psyches of those powerful of the mind upon the Material Plane - and after he has their unconscious brains within his endless grasp, like a fat spider hoards helpless flies in his web, he will bloat them with the poison of his final peace, for all of creation - and they will spread it for him. They are the False Prophets of Urphluggnoth, and they come bearing you the truth of a final peace; be prepared for it.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Gonna assume by the lack of comment and self depreciation that my idea is not one been done before.

Writhe... wriiiithe...

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Hmm...what do people feel about the concept of a pure and untainted warrior or spellcaster who, through the purification of the unholy rite of Blood Magic, bleeds out their own hatred, rage, jealousy, and similar "evil" emotions, turning them against those of evil alignment as a weapon of good?

[Lord_Gareth]

Hmm...what do people feel about the concept of a pure and untainted warrior or spellcaster who, through the purification of the unholy rite of Blood Magic, bleeds out their own hatred, rage, jealousy, and similar "evil" emotions, turning them against those of evil alignment as a weapon of good?

....Honestly, that you can do better. It sounds cheesy, hackneyed, and like something from Star Wars. Or WotC.

[Fable Wright]

It's not done yet, but what do people think of my class so far?

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

....Honestly, that you can do better. It sounds cheesy, hackneyed, and like something from Star Wars. Or WotC.

That's one for that side. This is why I run these things by people...the vision in my head isn't always the vision that others see. :smallbiggrin:

For what it's worth, I don't think anything I'd make would end up hackneyed. I was imagining less "The Force" and more "actual dripping physical manifestation of evil."

But thanks for the input. I'll see what else comes to mind. :smallbiggrin:

[Lord_Gareth]

Djinn, I would have thought you capable of more than playing into cheesy, two-dimensional morality. I mean, honestly. Physical manifestation of what? Evil's in the eye of the beholder.

[ErrantX]

The fiends of the lower planes whisper nightmarish tales of the Lords of Rusted Iron. Mortal fiend hunters, the Lords of Rusted Iron track down summoned or free-willed fiends and trap them in runes made of iron flakes that they then bind into their weapons, dwellings, or even themselves, growing ever-more powerful with every foe dragged screaming into eternal enslavement.

This.

Do this. Extra points if you can involve your Harrowed (if only in the fluff) :smalltongue:

-X

[unosarta]

The Cabalist of the Heinous Realms isn't finished yet, but it shouldn't take all that long. Vestiges are going to be the hard part now. I would appreciate any critiques of what I have so far (the very little bit of it). :smallbiggrin:

[Lord_Gareth]

Dispater's drawback is so far beyond being unplayable as to be, at the moment, laughable. Surely there's another way to represent his paranoia?

[unosarta]

Dispater's drawback is so far beyond being unplayable as to be, at the moment, laughable. Surely there's another way to represent his paranoia?

I could not think of one. Maybe something like he cannot willingly go within 10 feet of someone he considers an enemy? But that also seems constricting. :smallfrown:

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Djinn, I would have thought you capable of more than playing into cheesy, two-dimensional morality. I mean, honestly. Physical manifestation of what? Evil's in the eye of the beholder.

Really? The idea of someone literally ripping out the evils of the human mind and imposing them on other beings in the name of humanity and light is two dimensional morality? That's all sorts of shades of gray, my friend. If I crush you under waves of raw hatred and literally consume your soul with negative energies, can I really claim to be fighting for the light?

Critique the idea if you will, but don't accuse me of pandering to the two-dimensional alignment system. Please...you know me well enough to know that I'd not do anything as cut and dry as "good/evil." I'm honestly a bit offended by that. :smallannoyed:

[BladeofOblivion]

I could not think of one. Maybe something like he cannot must succeed on a Will Save in order to willingly go within 10 feet of someone he considers an enemy? But that also seems constricting. :smallfrown:

Fixed it for you. That should help a bit.

[unosarta]

Fixed it for you. That should help a bit.

Hm, maybe. I was thinking something like, cannot go within 5 feet of an opponent unless he is certain that they are not aware of him, and then granting him an invisibility power. Maybe both?

Mammon's influence is a pain as well. :smallannoyed:

[Lord_Gareth]

Well, lemme think. See, paranoia =/= cowardice. Direct confrontation isn't the only option here; there's fear of failure, fear of theft, fear of embarassment...

Maybe they cannot fail to act against a perceived enemy? Trust issues? Must always have a defensive buff up? SOMETHING?

[Lord_Gareth]

Really? The idea of someone literally ripping out the evils of the human mind and imposing them on other beings in the name of humanity and light is two dimensional morality? That's all sorts of shades of gray, my friend. If I crush you under waves of raw hatred and literally consume your soul with negative energies, can I really claim to be fighting for the light?

Critique the idea if you will, but don't accuse me of pandering to the two-dimensional alignment system. Please...you know me well enough to know that I'd not do anything as cut and dry as "good/evil." I'm honestly a bit offended by that. :smallannoyed:

>.> That's not how it read when you presented the idea.

...Look, a DISTRACTION!

*Eats a couple hundred more souls to make up for the setback while Djinn's not looking*

That being said, my friend, I think it's time I had a new avatar. What say thee? Any ideas?

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

>.> That's not how it read when you presented the idea.

My apologies. I thought you, at least, would glean into my thought process. But I see how it was misleading.


...Look, a DISTRACTION!

ON NO! WHERE?


That being said, my friend, I think it's time I had a new avatar. What say thee? Any ideas?

Obviously, one of your Harrowed. Unless you have other ideas...

[unosarta]

Well, lemme think. See, paranoia =/= cowardice. Direct confrontation isn't the only option here; there's fear of failure, fear of theft, fear of embarassment...

Maybe they cannot fail to act against a perceived enemy? Trust issues? Must always have a defensive buff up? SOMETHING?

All that he appears to be truly afraid of is offending someone. Maybe something along those lines. "He cannot avoid attempting to use diplomacy on those who feel indifferent or worse towards him." Or something like that.

And what is with the tone in that post? You sound actively offended that what I made for his influence (which I also happened to write up in like, a minute), wasn't perfect. I really appreciate the ideas and comments, but this just seems downright negative. :smallannoyed:

Well, either way, I appreciate the stuff you have said.

Also, trust issues seem like a Mammon thing. I am going to add those to him.

[Golden-Esque]

The city of Duskbowel was never a friendly place to be, but on the Night of the Red Moon, his kind were little better then gnats to be crushed under the will of the churches. All around him he could hear the screams. Men gasping for their last waking breath after being stabbed in their sleep, women crying in fear as they desperately clutched their children; tainted for having mere contact with his people. Through alleys paved in dying flesh and laid in blood, a young man quickly dashed through the streets, blood congealing to his bare feet.

He was little better then naked; with no time to draw a seal he fled in nothing more than a cotton shirt and pants; once white, now a grisly brown. The sound of iron steps echoes behind him, so the young man pushed his body to its mortal limit only to meet the end of the alley, and presumably the end of his life. Braced against the wall, a steady drip of blood lurched down from a far above alcove onto the young man's face, sliding down his cheeks until its iron taste greeted his lips.

The holy men walked into the light; smirked with iron-clad faces at the sight of the child before them. Barely a man, the heathen clutched the bloodied brick wall as of it would spin about and whisk him to safety. All souls present knew that Heironeous granted no boons to heathen 'filth.'

"Where's your little parasite now, Binder?" One of the men smirked as he stepped closer, drawing his blade. The boy held his breath, his mind racing with ideas, each one more ludicrous then the one before it. His heart beat faster and faster, until it happened. The boy clutched his heart. It was if his entire being shattered. A calm sweat dripped down the boy's face, mixing with blood shed by others like him. All emotion drained his his heart; his fear of death, his sorrow for the loss of his mother, all vanished.

Except for hunger.


* * *

The boy awoke many hours later; a steady rain fell upon him dyed red with blood. The soldiers lay still, face down in the ground. Their bodies hacked and slashed to shreds with the precision of a master swordsman. A faint plea for mercy filled the young man's ears as he looked down to find that he held a sword etched with the markings of Heironeous; one of the soldier's swords. He dropped it with fear as a single voice, a single throaty whisper overpowered all others.

"Continue."


* * *

The Myr'Shaejae is a prestige class aimed at Binders; exactly what other prerequisites are required, I haven't decided yet. The Myr'Shaejae will be able to rip fragments of souls from their victims' bodies and bind those fragments to their own akin to vestiges. Doing so grants the Myr'Shaejae abilities as they increase in level. As they level up, the Myr'Shaejae will be able to do additional things with those souls, including the creation of horcruxes and devouring them to heal wounds. Hope you enjoyed my little preview of the horrors yet to come.

[Lord_Gareth]

Ironic that my iconic creation has never actually been finished.

Alright then, I'll rise to the bait. What would you do with a new Harrowed Avvi?

Actual Mechanical Considerations
Alrighty - obviously, the Lords of Rusted Iron should hunt down fiends to gain power. However, tying class advancement to that would be idiocy of Green Star Adept proportions. I'm thinking that you need to slay a fiend and perform your first Rite of Binding Slivers to join the class, immediately gaining an enhancement, but then I'm stuck with the question of where do I go from here?

So, I'm thinking these following ideas:

Soul-Drinkers - The Lords of Rusted Iron get to select from a list of enhancements to weapons, armor, areas, or self when they create their Sliver Runes, literally drinking the fiend down to self-aware essence. So, basically an item-crafter that doesn't need to spend XP or gold, possibly with some unique enhancements.

Thematic Enhancement - The Lords of Rusted Iron gain thematic benefits from the fiends they bind; energy resistance, signature abilities like level drain or SLAs, unique powers or even the ability to conjure forth the signature weapons of their victims (like a Balor's lightning sword, or an Eyrines' rope).

Hit Dice to Power Conversion - The Lords of Rusted Iron gain invocations/spells/whatever based on the hit die of the capture fiend, possibly including some permanent enhancements such as energy damage on a weapon or flying armor.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Alright then, I'll rise to the bait. What would you do with a new Harrowed Avvi?

Not sure. I'd have to reread the class and do a few sketches. Probably some sinister looking figure with a large, phantasmal thing looming behind him...

[Lord_Gareth]

There's some discussion on the Harrowed thread you might wanna get in on; a shift from bonus feat to feat-like enhancements such as bestial transformations, connections to darkness (or light), et cetera.

A more otherworldly avvi might be nice...

[ErrantX]

@Golden-esque:

Effing win man, effing win. Go do it! :D

-X

[boomwolf]

Well. a slight thinktank of our dear "Fiendblood Infuser"

In core, he has two main powers drawn from fiend blood he consume:

1-a charge, by fiend HD, that he can collect and unleash to do nasty things to other fiends. you can for example send them away (basic level 1 ability), or outright destroy their very essence (one of the 10th level powers)

2-Fiendish Adaptations, that come in three flavors: first is a "permanent" mutation that you are limited by number of (1 at third, 2 and sixth, 3 at 9th.) and do powerful things, second is "dispensable charge", drink and get an ability you can use once this day, third is a timed charge, drink and gain bonus for a short duration.

naturally getting multiples of the second and third blood types is helpful, and there is a build-it mechanic to switch the "permanent" ones (gained at fifth level)

[ErrantX]

@Boomwolf:

If you basically make Sam Winchester the prestige class, I'll mail you a cookie :D

-X

[BladeofOblivion]

Alright, I have another idea. I was reading a bunch of classical literature, (as I often do from time to time) I remembered the story of Faust. My new idea is, in a way, a modified version of my original idea, but in a less 2-dimensional way. Essentially, a 10-level PrC that allows you to make two Pact Inferni for more special abilities (per level). However, since you cannot act without a soul in D&D, he traps the souls of others using his body as a conduit. Whenever he uses one of his powers, one soul is transferred to the Devil he made the deal with as a "cost" of sorts. It won't actually require you to be Evil to get in, but good luck harvesting souls like that and staying good. And then, to make it truly tragic, we can show the body's corruption for the sake of power at higher levels of the class, like perhaps your left arm transforming into that of a Pit Fiend. Such a transformation would give you, perhaps, a Soul Drain touch attack that acts as an X/day touch version of Finger of Death. And a penalty to all diplomacy checks.

And if it is still too close to the Soul Devourer for your taste, just remember that no one criticizes the Sorcerer for having the same spell list as the Wizard. It may also be worth remembering that I NEVER make a class without adding some kind of new mechanic, whether it's an entirely new spellcasting system (Runecaster) or a way to make melee more interesting. (Runeblade)

For this one, I will almost inexorably create the class, and then some type of feat or system to go with it. In this case, I might go for something along the lines of a Soul Market that finally determines the exact value of a soul based on HD. You can sell them for a quick buck, or perhaps buy them (For a vastly inflated price) from the Devils for fuel, promising that you will sell them far more than you purchased in the future.

[Hyooz]

I'm not going to spoil too much about what the class will look like and do, but you can be assured it will be inexorably tied to my personal favorite unearthy being from beyond reality: The Slender Man (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7707638&postcount=11).

[Fable Wright]

Does anyone want to PEACH the hellforge artificer? (Invocations coming soon. Most of the invocations wind up making some form of construct. A hellforge artificer may control up to 4 times his HD in constructs created by his invocations. Just saying this up front, as a lot of the powers are based off making constructs.)

[MoleMage]

PEACH for the Mental Reaper would also be appreciated; I'm still working on completing the list of abilities to choose from but the rest should be ready to critique.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

*starts to smile slowly as everything comes together*

Something wicked this way comes...

[unosarta]

*starts to smile slowly as everything comes together*

Something wicked this way comes...

*Quakes in fear*
:smalleek:

[Forever Curious]

May or may not make something for this... hm...

[Golden-Esque]

Alrightie. I got the crunch up for the Myr'Shaejae and am anxiously awaiting some feedback as I search for a suitable picture and work on the fluff :P.

Quick Link for Lazies. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9386220&postcount=7)

EDIT: Hot damn did I make this dark 0_0.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Alrightie. I got the crunch up for the Myr'Shaejae and am anxiously awaiting some feedback as I search for a suitable picture and work on the fluff :P.

Quick Link for Lazies. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9386220&postcount=7)

Monumentally overpowered. At level 1 (no prerequisites are given...I'm assuming either 7th or 10th level entry), I can snag the ability modifiers and special attacks or special qualities of any monster the party encounters, and I'm not limited by daily uses or anything like that: I'm only limited to a "once every 5 rounds," which, further, appears to be per individual ability.

Let's say I'm level 9, for instance. I come across a Nymph.

Suddenly, for the cost of 1 Vestige slot, I get the following:

+6 Dex, +2 Con, +6 Int, +6 Wis, +8 Cha
Spells as a 7th level Druid (Yes, it's in the special attacks column) I'm assuming 1 spell per 5 rounds, with no daily limit on spells (although it's an assumption from the written rules, and probably not intended to work that way)
Dimension Door The Nymph has it 1/day, but I can use it 1/5 rounds, since there's nothing saying otherwise.
Stunning Glance: A save-or-2d4 rounds stunned attack once every 5 rounds? Not bad. And by not bad, I mean it's incredible.
Blinding Beauty: All the time (as it's a continuous ability), I can basically permanently blind my enemies.

Now, consider that these abilities have Cha-based DCs, and my Cha has just been boosted by 4.

And this is just a CR 7 creature, at ECL 7-10, granting powers basically above and beyond 7-8th level Vestiges. God help the DM when I get THREE racial traits, and am pulling from things like Demons, Angels, and powerful Aberrations. It's going to get really crazy, and fast. Just a single level in this grants untold possibilities for both power and versatility.

The fact that you don't get at least one free Reliquary and one free Horcrux is a little strange as well...so many class features depend on them that I was surprised that I don't get at least a weaker version as part of the class.

[Golden-Esque]

Monumentally overpowered. At level 1 (no prerequisites are given...I'm assuming either 7th or 10th level entry), I can snag the ability modifiers and special attacks or special qualities of any monster the party encounters, and I'm not limited by daily uses or anything like that: I'm only limited to a "once every 5 rounds," which, further, appears to be per individual ability.

Let's say I'm level 9, for instance. I come across a Nymph.

Suddenly, for the cost of 1 Vestige slot, I get the following:

+6 Dex, +2 Con, +6 Int, +6 Wis, +8 Cha
Spells as a 7th level Druid (Yes, it's in the special attacks column) I'm assuming 1 spell per 5 rounds, with no daily limit on spells (although it's an assumption from the written rules, and probably not intended to work that way)
Dimension Door The Nymph has it 1/day, but I can use it 1/5 rounds, since there's nothing saying otherwise.
Stunning Glance: A save-or-2d4 rounds stunned attack once every 5 rounds? Not bad. And by not bad, I mean it's incredible.
Blinding Beauty: All the time (as it's a continuous ability), I can basically permanently blind my enemies.

Now, consider that these abilities have Cha-based DCs, and my Cha has just been boosted by 4.

And this is just a CR 7 creature, at ECL 7-10, granting powers basically above and beyond 7-8th level Vestiges. God help the DM when I get THREE racial traits, and am pulling from things like Demons, Angels, and powerful Aberrations. It's going to get really crazy, and fast. Just a single level in this grants untold possibilities for both power and versatility.

The fact that you don't get at least one free Reliquary and one free Horcrux is a little strange as well...so many class features depend on them that I was surprised that I don't get at least a weaker version as part of the class.

New Changes:

Prerequisites are up. You were right, Djinn. You need to be at least 7th level to take this class if I'm doing my math correctly.

When taking the Special Attacks or Special Qualities, you only select one special attack or one special quality, and the list provided is now what you can choose from. In situations such as spell-like abilities where the creature has multiple spell-like abilities, you only gain one; even if the creature has more than one. I also added supernatural abilities and extraordinary abilities to the list, but again, you can only select one per available trait.

When taking the ability scores or skill bonuses trait, there's now a restriction on how much of a bonus you can gain; it caps at +1 per three Binder levels you possess, which is a maximum of +6 at 18th level. However, there's no cap on penalties.

Technically speaking, the first horcrux is significantly cheaper to craft than subsequent ones, you're designed to be around 12 level when you get it, and only the capstone ability interacts with the horcrux or the reliquary. Both abilities are more "quality of life" class features than something the class is mechanically built around. However, 10,000 might be too much to ask of a 12th level character; I'll cut it to 5,000 for the first one, and have the progression go up from there.

EDIT: Oh snap, I originally wrote 50,000 instead of 10,000. Well, okay then ....
EDIT: Reliquary of Souls' cost reduced to 60,000. Additional slot reduced to 5,000 gold per additional soul.

In addition, I added a clause where a creature gains a stacking +1 bonus on its Will save against the effect for every 1 hit dice more it has than the Myr'Shaejae. In addition to making the ability usable once every 5 rounds, I am hoping it'll end up making weaker Binders less likely to charge terrasques for super powers :).

Now, here is my challenge to you, Mr. Djinn, as well as anyone else who would care to partake (*eyes Gareth*). Assume 17th level; you're a Binder 7 / Myr'Shaejae's 10. You get 5 traits from a living, non-mindless creature you touch. Using the rules listed on the page (link's above), can you pick 5 traits that are ridiculously over powered given the new rule set?

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Now, here is my challenge to you, Mr. Djinn, as well as anyone else who would care to partake (*eyes Gareth*). Assume 17th level; you're a Binder 7 / Myr'Shaejae's 10. You get 5 traits from a living, non-mindless creature you touch. Using the rules listed on the page (link's above), can you pick 5 traits that are ridiculously over powered given the new rule set?

Permanent invisibility via the Invisible Stalker at level 7.
Extra standard action each round via the Choker, again at level 7.
Free Wish spells via Noble Djinni

There are probably a few others, but you did cut the amount down significantly. These are, however, just using the SRD...other monsters in other sources have worse abilities.

[Golden-Esque]

Permanent invisibility via the Invisible Stalker at level 7.
Extra standard action each round via the Choker, again at level 7.
Free Wish spells via Noble Djinni

There are probably a few others, but you did cut the amount down significantly. These are, however, just using the SRD...other monsters in other sources have worse abilities.

We must both be in a home-brewy mood today. I guess while you were pondering, I was editing.

I did another huge pass on the class. After a bit of thought, I decided to go with something more along the lines of the Pathfinder Beast Shape spells, where the class gives you a list and you pick from it. In addition to that, when you get the Additional Traits ability as you level up, it allows you to break the rules a little bit more and select one ability (but only ever one ability) that isn't on that list. Those abilities that aren't on the list can only ever be used once per encounter, or once per pact if the ability has a /Day tag.

[Fable Wright]

Again, asking for Peach (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9384042&postcount=3), please. Please?

[unosarta]

Hm. As of right now, my post is 2000 characters over the limit. Should I just delete it and make two posts? I haven't even finished all of the class features yet. :smallfrown:

[Golden-Esque]

Again, asking for Peach (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9384042&postcount=3), please. Please?

As a teacher, there's a lot of little spelling, grammar, and punctuation nitpicks that I have; some of them might be important to keep in mind if you're going to publish a finished entry. Some of the fluff is a little generic; keep it if you'd like, but I'm not really getting a sense of who a Hellforged Artifice is as a person?

I'm also not entirely sure if "artifice" is the word you're looking for to describe your class. Artifice, when used as a noun, does not refer to people.


a clever trick or stratagem; a cunning, crafty device or expedient; wile.
trickery; guile; craftiness.
cunning; ingenuity; inventiveness: a drawing-room comedy crafted with artifice and elegance.
a skillful or artful contrivance or expedient.


Using "Artificer" would work much better for your purposes.

Here's a list of Questions I have:

Does a character with no levels in a spellcasting class get new spells?
Does a character with no levels in Warlock get Invocations?
What are the stats / abilities of a Mechanum
What does Craft Construct do? Does the Hellforged Artifice gain any special abilities when using this feat that a normal character doesn't?
Does Flaming Blade only apply to weapons that deal slashing damage? ('blade' infers this slightly; more of a nitpick :smalltongue:)
Is the +4 bonus to Strength and Dexterity granted by Soul Powered permanent?
Does the +4 bonus from Mechanum dead stack with the +4 granted by Soul Powered?
Does the +2 bonus from Necrotic Constructs stack with any of the prior bonuses?
Do the bonuses from Mechanum and Necrotic Constructs only activate when the creature is healed from negative energy, or is it a constant buff?
Can an Undead or Cosntruct with spellstoring store an enemy creature's spells within them when they are cast, effectively making them immune to magic?
What does Thinaum Blade mean when it says "Store the soul inside themselves instead of using it immediately?" I wasn't aware the class had an ability that actually used souls.
Animate Construct's fluff is confusing and seems to clash with its actual ability. What does it do?
Why wouldn't souls and the power you get by channeling souls be connected, as per the Spellweb ability? And why is it called Spell Web when the ability references souls?
So instead of casting a spell, I can cast it from one of my constructs and change its area from whatever it was to an emanation effect? Can I therefore emanate Chain Lighting from a construct, blasting all creatures within 30 feet with one lightning bolt per creature near them for some ridiculous damage?
So if I use Grant Invocation on a construct, it can use the invocation without any type of restrictions?
So with Construct Mastery, we're looking at a +10 bonus to Strength and Dexterity to all your undead and constructs that stacks with feats etc that boost these stats as well?
With consuming death, when did we put fiends inside of the constructs / undead? I don't remember reading that anywhere? What happens on a successful save against the explosion?
What is the tartarus forge? When did the Greek God's pit get a massive forge for prisoners to craft stuff with?
The formatting of the Tartarus forge is wonky. What exactly does it do? And don't use shortcuts. Shortcuts are just the devil's way of getting you to hell faster =O.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

I'd like to thank everyone for posting their PrC's so early. Really helps with mine to get ideas on what my fellow is preying on... :smallamused:

[MoleMage]

Mental Reaper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9384749&postcount=5)

I think I've finished the special abilities out now; can I get some PEACH on the crunchy bits? I'm gonna have the fluff up later tonight or tomorrow.

EDIT: Tribble, you scare me. I feel like I am doomed to obscurity when up against someone of your experience.

[Golden-Esque]

EDIT: Tribble, you scare me. I feel like I am doomed to obscurity when up against someone of your experience.

Or he could wait too long and miss his chance for good PEACHing :smalltongue:. Those that are darkness do not fear it.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

EDIT: Tribble, you scare me. I feel like I am doomed to obscurity when up against someone of your experience.It didn't win me last competition, so don't be intimidated... I'm just the beast under your bed, in your closet, in your HEAD!

[MoleMage]

Enter Sandman reference in white text. I approve.

So you know what my idea looks like by now, may I ask what general area you're aiming at?

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

I'd like to thank everyone for posting their PrC's so early. Really helps with mine to get ideas on what my fellow is preying on... :smallamused:

Indeed. :smallbiggrin:

[MoleMage]

Indeed. :smallbiggrin:

Hmm. Perhaps posting early was not the best plan. Or perhaps, just perhaps, it makes no difference. Djinn and/or Tribble, would you mind taking a look at mine? I don't think I've ever seen you give bad advice.

So you all know, I'm a fairly common presence, I just don't manifest very often.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Hmm. Perhaps posting early was not the best plan. Or perhaps, just perhaps, it makes no difference.

Pretty much. I often don't even read other classes until mine is finished, unless specifically asked.


Djinn, would you mind taking a look at mine? I don't think I've ever seen you give bad advice.

So you all know, I'm a fairly common presence, I just don't manifest very often.

Sure. I'll take a look later.

[Fable Wright]

As a teacher, there's a lot of little spelling, grammar, and punctuation nitpicks that I have; some of them might be important to keep in mind if you're going to publish a finished entry. Some of the fluff is a little generic; keep it if you'd like, but I'm not really getting a sense of who a Hellforged Artifice is as a person?

I'm also not entirely sure if "artifice" is the word you're looking for to describe your class. Artifice, when used as a noun, does not refer to people.


a clever trick or stratagem; a cunning, crafty device or expedient; wile.
trickery; guile; craftiness.
cunning; ingenuity; inventiveness: a drawing-room comedy crafted with artifice and elegance.
a skillful or artful contrivance or expedient.


Using "Artificer" would work much better for your purposes.

Yeah, I know I have alot of little mistakes. And I did intend for it to be an 'artificer' class; most of the time, I managed to fix the errors; but sometimes I accidentally typed 'artifice' and didn't catch it. Most of it's fixed now.

Here's a list of Questions I have:

Does a character with no levels in a spellcasting class get new spells?
I wasn't aware that you could get levels in the class without spellcasting; Craft Magic Arms and Armor requires a caster level, and I didn't know that someone could cast fabricate or animate dead without a level in a spellcasting class. But no.
Does a character with no levels in Warlock get Invocations?
Yes; I wrote out a full progression for invocations; it does not merely say "+1 level in an invocation-using class"; it has it's own invocation list that I'm working on right now.
What are the stats / abilities of a Mechanum
At the bottom of the page, there is a spoiler entitled, "New Monsters". I intend to make several of them, and already have. In there, there are the full details of the Mechanum monster.
What does Craft Construct do? Does the Hellforged Artifice gain any special abilities when using this feat that a normal character doesn't?
Craft Construct is on page 303 of the monster manual; it allows characters to create golems. They do not initially get any bonus, but many of their class abilities confer bonuses onto creations they make.
Does Flaming Blade only apply to weapons that deal slashing damage? ('blade' infers this slightly; more of a nitpick :smalltongue:)
No, it does not. It just sounds cooler than "Flaming weapons", in my opinion. I'll go specify that.
Is the +4 bonus to Strength and Dexterity granted by Soul Powered permanent?
No; I believe that I made a note in there that it lasted for a number of rounds equal to the dead creature's HD.
Does the +4 bonus from Mechanum dead stack with the +4 granted by Soul Powered?
Yes, they stack. I will make a note of that.
Does the +2 bonus from Necrotic Constructs stack with any of the prior bonuses?
All except for the bonuses from Mechanum dead; I will make a note of that.
Do the bonuses from Mechanum and Necrotic Constructs only activate when the creature is healed from negative energy, or is it a constant buff?
No, these have permanent durations.
Can an Undead or Cosntruct with spellstoring store an enemy creature's spells within them when they are cast, effectively making them immune to magic?
No, they cannot. The wording was "When a spell is cast into it". Normally, this implies that a creature must consent to having their spell stored, but I don't know how to clarify the wording.
What does Thinaum Blade mean when it says "Store the soul inside themselves instead of using it immediately?" I wasn't aware the class had an ability that actually used souls.
Ah; I will clarify that. The 'Soul powered' ability was intended to require souls to activate. I will make note of that.
Animate Construct's fluff is confusing and seems to clash with its actual ability. What does it do?
Normally, when a construct is destroyed, you cannot use spells like Animate dead on it. This ability is intended to allow spells like Animate dead to affect constructs, as well as normal corporeal, previously living creatures.
Why wouldn't souls and the power you get by channeling souls be connected, as per the Spellweb ability? And why is it called Spell Web when the ability references souls?
Actually, on the invocation list, near the bottom, although I have only made 3 invocations so far, I intend for them to be linked to spellcasting. Most of them will require the hellforge ability to activate, or similar spells. The invocations are intetwined with the casting. If this did not answer your question, I apologize. The wording of the question was somewhat vague. In addition it was called 'Spellweb' because of the resulting ability; imagine a lightning bolt spell cast by the artificer, and then absorbed by a golem, which is then redirected at another golem, who keeps on shooting it around to a number of different sources. If you trace the path of the lightning bolt, at least in my visualization, it formed a web made out of the energy of the spell. If you have any suggestions about different names to use, I'd be glad to hear them. :smallsmile:
So instead of casting a spell, I can cast it from one of my constructs and change its area from whatever it was to an emanation effect? Can I therefore emanate Chain Lighting from a construct, blasting all creatures within 30 feet with one lightning bolt per creature near them for some ridiculous damage?
It was intended so that the spell's source was the golem; as in, if an opponent was out of the range of one of the artificer's spell, then it would allow the artificer to cast the spell as if he was where the golem was standing. Can you think of a better wording for the effect?
So if I use Grant Invocation on a construct, it can use the invocation without any type of restrictions?
It can use the invocation as if it were you, yes. There are no restrictions, but most of the invocations require the use of the hellforge ability. For example, when you cast a spell, you sacrifice the bonus damage given for the ability to create a construct instead; it allows you to get more out of your action economy; instead of casting a spell on turn one, and using your invocation on turn two, then you can have the construct use the invocation on turn one, allowing you to cast a spell on turn two. And for the damage dealing invocations, it still requires a standard action to activate the invocation.
So with Construct Mastery, we're looking at a +10 bonus to Strength and Dexterity to all your undead and constructs that stacks with feats etc that boost these stats as well?
For constructs, they get a +6 bonus overall, and undead get +8 overall. I will reword it so that both of them get +6 overall, and I possibly rule out other abilities increasing the stats from there.
With consuming death, when did we put fiends inside of the constructs / undead? I don't remember reading that anywhere? What happens on a successful save against the explosion?
The fiendish constructs ability, directly above the ability description, right under the construct mastery power. On a successful save, you take no damage.
What is the tartarus forge? When did the Greek God's pit get a massive forge for prisoners to craft stuff with?
Tartarus was the God's prison for the most powerful and evil souls, unless I'm mistaken. I'll reword the fluff so that it makes it clear that you're channeling the power of the souls from there, not channeling the energy from a giant furnace there.
The formatting of the Tartarus forge is wonky. What exactly does it do? And don't use shortcuts. Shortcuts are just the devil's way of getting you to hell faster =O.
I will try to fix the wording. It was intended to grant all constructs created by the artificer to deal fire damage equal to their HD to all adjacent foes, unless they made a successful fortitude save. On a successful save, they take half damage. I also intended to give the constructs an ability similar to a dragon's breath weapon, dealing 1d6/HD (of the construct) damage. It was also intended to allow the constructs created by the artificer to be healed by fire damage, as per the ability of an iron golem. I will try to make the wording clearer. Finally, it was supposed to empower the consuming death ability so that it did 10d6 points of damage on a failed save, and 5d6 points of damage on a successful save.


So, to answer more of your questions at the top, a hellforge artificer was intended to be a kind of 'combat artificer'; they, in combat, would create powerful constructs to destroy their foes, summoning fire laden with souls and steel out of the depths of the abyss, and then sculpting it into an animated creature. They would wrench souls out of the abyss, and then force their souls to constantly power their machines as an energy source; when they killed a foe, that soul could be used to enhance the power of a construct, as it increased the power source for it.

How would you suggest conveying this, and making the fluff less generic?

Also, thanks for PEACHing. I really appreciate it. :smallsmile:

Also, in relation to the above conversation: I already realized from the start that I wouldn't win, as this is my first contest, and some of the best homebrewers on the forum are here. I'm just trying to get more than one vote. :smalltongue:(:smallfrown:)

[JoshuaZ]

Ok. I know what I'm doing for this contest. Going to use an idea for a PrC that has been bouncing around my head for a while now. Dancers of the Threshold- they use dance to channel necromantic power.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

I'll get to critiquing others when I'm done with mine. In the zone right now and it must flooow.


Ok. I know what I'm doing for this contest. Going to use an idea for a PrC that has been bouncing around my head for a while now. Dancers of the Threshold- they use dance to channel necromantic power.
Heck yeah (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcIy1B71G4Y) :smallamused:

[DragoonWraith]

Wow... Djinn's return, and a contest theme that could not play to Gareth's and Tribble's strengths any better, methinks. I will have a very tough time here; I certainly appreciate my recent victories, and how several people have lumped me in with them, but ooh, this is going to be very hard. We shall see. I do not, currently, have any brilliant ideas... but then I've spent the day with a hideous hang-over, so we'll see what tomorrow brings.

[JoshuaZ]

I'll get to critiquing others when I'm done with mine. In the zone right now and it must flooow.


Heck yeah (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcIy1B71G4Y) :smallamused:

Actually, that wasn't a direct inspiration but the relevant Erfworld referencing that (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0140.html) was definitely part.

[unosarta]

Also, now that the crunch is done, and I am writing the fluff out, does anyone have any comments for the Cabalist of the Heinous Realm? I was wondering if having both the Soulbound Ability and the Pact of the Lords abilities together at the same time would be a little powerful compared to other binder prestige classes. However, the really obvious infernal signs from the Pact of the Lords abilities make it not a very functional ability for non-combat use, or at least, a lot of non-combat use. Maybe the Soulbound and Pact of the Lords abilities do not stack? So the Cabalist has to choose between the (probably) more powerful Pact of the Lords abilities which pretty much is a beacon shouting "hey, guess who is working for the devils!", or the stuff they get from their Devil race, which is pretty ambiguous and hide-able, the tails, stings and claws fitting under cloaks and gloves. Any thoughts?

[BladeofOblivion]

Wow... Djinn's return, and a contest theme that could not play to Gareth's and Tribble's strengths any better, methinks. I will have a very tough time here; I certainly appreciate my recent victories, and how several people have lumped me in with them, but ooh, this is going to be very hard. We shall see. I do not, currently, have any brilliant ideas... but then I've spent the day with a hideous hang-over, so we'll see what tomorrow brings.

Hey, you're actually good at making PrC's. I'll be lucky to get ONE VOTE.

[JoshuaZ]

Hey, you're actually good at making PrC's. I'll be lucky to get ONE VOTE.

I don't think you need to compare yourself to Dragoon in that way. It isn't helpful and probably isn't that accurate. First of all, taking part in these contests is a learning experience (Speaking personally, I'm pretty sure that my most recent contest entry was better than my prior contest entry and I'm pretty sure that my one for this is going to be better than either of those.)

[Golden-Esque]

Yeah, I know I have alot of little mistakes. And I did intend for it to be an 'artificer' class; most of the time, I managed to fix the errors; but sometimes I accidentally typed 'artifice' and didn't catch it. Most of it's fixed now.

No problem making mistakes; that's why we got the preliminary draft out on the board quickly, right? :P

I also want to point out that a lot of my questions were asked from the perspective of a new player and not a seasoned homebrewer; you gotta remember to be specific and include detail in your explanations; assume nothing when possible; always include a description or a reference to where additional questions can be answered (phrases like "as a Wizard" or "like a Binder of the same level" help give a new player where to look it up).

If the class only stacks with levels of Wizard, you still might want to that the Artificer gains Invocations "like a Warlock" or what not, using my advice from above. Also make sure next to the Mechanum, put a (see below) to reference that there are, in fact, rules available for the mechanum :P. I'd do the same thing with the Craft Construct feat (see page X of Monster Manual #); you'd be surprised how many players don't read the Monster Manual.

For spell storing, I'd say something along the lines of "The Hellforge Artifcer can, as a standard action, touch a construct and store one of their arcane spells within it. If they prepare their spells in advanced, this process consumes a prepared spell. If they spontaneously cast their spells, doing so expends a spell slot of the appropriate level ... etc."

For Spellweb, what would be the intended benefit of shooting spells around to constructs that are immune to said effects? That confuses me a bit, and I'm not sure what you're intended that ability to do mechanically.

That Immolate Aura for the capstone is a little crazy, even if you're limited to, say, 5 golems you're going to be pumping out a pulsing aura that'll deal between 50 and 100 damage between the lot of them every round. I think that ability might need to be reworked, especially considering spouting fire isn't quite what I think of when I envision tartarus.


How would you suggest conveying this, and making the fluff less generic?

Well, first thing I'd do is remember that these guys aren't going to be liked much, as you noted. Not only are they doing something abominable to the souls of the dead, but none of the Evil deities are going to be happy that you're wrenching the souls of their servents from their eternal damnation and stuffing them into constructs. You might want to play with the fact that the Artificer is not going to popular with Clerics of any alignment.

Second, I'd drop the part about stealing from the Abyss; make them steal from EVERYTHING. Maybe even focus on the Nine Hells, since you eventually learn to trap devils into your constructs as well.

When naming things, don't be afraid to create new words or use words from other languages. Take Harry Potter for example. Flightodeath doesn't really make for a great name, but if you butcher it into Flyodeth, it's a little bit better. Use a langue different from your audience's language and bam, you get a name that strikes fear into the hearts of Potter freaks everywhere, Voldemort.


Also, thanks for PEACHing. I really appreciate it. :smallsmile:

Also, in relation to the above conversation: I already realized from the start that I wouldn't win, as this is my first contest, and some of the best homebrewers on the forum are here. I'm just trying to get more than one vote. :smalltongue:(:smallfrown:)

You're welcome! Remember, you may not THINK you can win, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't try to brew well enough to give everyone a run for their money.

[Golden-Esque]

I don't think you need to compare yourself to Dragoon in that way. It isn't helpful and probably isn't that accurate. First of all, taking part in these contests is a learning experience (Speaking personally, I'm pretty sure that my most recent contest entry was better than my prior contest entry and I'm pretty sure that my one for this is going to be better than either of those.)

I agree. The more you mess around with rules, the better you get with them. I also recommend to try your creations out in real games; it's a real eye-opener. I've already gone back and edited my old Wild Child class; next on my list is the White Lion Knight :P.

But yeah, don't think about how big and scary Djinn, Gareth, and Vorpal are. They're all beatable, but that's really not what counts. You're hear to make a Prestige Class that inspires terror in the hearts of your players, after all. Not to win a 64-bit trophy.

No matter how heinously wonderful that trophic may be! ~ <3

[Fable Wright]

For Spellweb, what would be the intended benefit of shooting spells around to constructs that are immune to said effects? That confuses me a bit, and I'm not sure what you're intended that ability to do mechanically.

In a nutshell? It gives you extended range for all of your spells. Since the ability is confusing, mechanically, I'll see if I can replace it.


That Immolate Aura for the capstone is a little crazy, even if you're limited to, say, 5 golems you're going to be pumping out a pulsing aura that'll deal between 50 and 100 damage between the lot of them every round. I think that ability might need to be reworked, especially considering spouting fire isn't quite what I think of when I envision tartarus.

Alright. Then, what do you envision when you see Tartarus?
As of now, thinking about it, I'm thinking of changing it alot. Rather than boosting all the constructs' powers, I think I'll just give the Artificer an epic ability instead; I'm thinking of changing the power into something a little more powerful, and easier to make: one Soul Effigy. Each time it devours a soul, it also gains 1 special attack or special quality from the monster whose soul it eats. Maximum of 3 special attacks and 3 special qualities. Thoughts?


Well, first thing I'd do is remember that these guys aren't going to be liked much, as you noted. Not only are they doing something abominable to the souls of the dead, but none of the Evil deities are going to be happy that you're wrenching the souls of their servents from their eternal damnation and stuffing them into constructs. You might want to play with the fact that the Artificer is not going to popular with Clerics of any alignment.

Second, I'd drop the part about stealing from the Abyss; make them steal from EVERYTHING. Maybe even focus on the Nine Hells, since you eventually learn to trap devils into your constructs as well.

When naming things, don't be afraid to create new words or use words from other languages. Take Harry Potter for example. Flightodeath doesn't really make for a great name, but if you butcher it into Flyodeth, it's a little bit better. Use a langue different from your audience's language and bam, you get a name that strikes fear into the hearts of Potter freaks everywhere, Voldemort.

Thanks again. I'm definitely going to get to work on this, now...

[JoshuaZ]

A few brief comments on the PrCs currently up. Right now, just commenting on issues that are readily apparent:

Mental Reaper- Gets Speed of Thought at 3rd level. But Soul Knives get this at 6th level anyways and straight Soul Knife is one of the easiest ways of qualifying for this class. I'm not sure why giving them this is there thematically and what it is intending to accomplish.


Sculptor of the Damned - Marshal of the Eternal Army makes you a construct at 5th level in the PrC? For balance reasons it generally makes sense to have an type changes occur late in the PrC, generally at the last level. Also, does this impact aging or the like? Also, please add a column for spellcasting so it clear that they get that from just looking at the table.

[MoleMage]

You qualify for this at Soulknife 5. So a Soulknife 5/Mental Reaper 1 missed out on Speed of Thought. I should probably add something unique there too though now that you mention it, for the Soulknives who don't enter at minimum requirements.

Actually, a couple of these abilities are from Soulknife; Knife to the Soul should automatically grant Knife to the Mind if you already have it from Soulknife levels...and Knife to the Mind should grant a bigger bonus. Hmm...

[JoshuaZ]

You qualify for this at Soulknife 5. So a Soulknife 5/Mental Reaper 1 missed out on Speed of Thought. I should probably add something unique there too though now that you mention it, for the Soulknives who don't enter at minimum requirements.

Actually, a couple of these abilities are from Soulknife; Knife to the Soul should automatically grant Knife to the Mind if you already have it from Soulknife levels...and Knife to the Mind should grant a bigger bonus. Hmm...

How are you qualifying at level 5? You include as a requirement that they have +5 BAB. A Soul Knife doesn't get +5 BAB until level 7 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/soulknife.htm) Are you playing with the Soul Knife as full BAB?

[unosarta]

....And still no comments for the Cabalist of the Heinous Realms. :smallfrown:
I even have the fluff all up and everything! :smallfrown:
Well, except the organization stats for the Dread Cabal, and the Example NPC isn't all the way done. But otherwise!

[JoshuaZ]

....And still no comments for the Cabalist of the Heinous Realms. :smallfrown:
I even have the fluff all up and everything! :smallfrown:
Well, except the organization stats for the Dread Cabal, and the Example NPC isn't all the way done. But otherwise!

Well, there is a lot of material to go over. One quick question: What is the logic behind the non-standard increase to binder ability? Normally your increase to binder level includes how many vestiges you can bind. Not sure whether you removed that for flavor or balance and if so what the flavor and balance issues are exactly.

[unosarta]

Well, there is a lot of material to go over. One quick question: What is the logic behind the non-standard increase to binder ability? Normally your increase to binder level includes how many vestiges you can bind. Not sure whether you removed that for flavor or balance and if so what the flavor and balance issues are exactly.

Basically, this class is based on the incredible Seidkona of the Iron Bands prestige class. To be honest, not only did Djinn not have them there, I was hesitant to allow the Cabalist to have the abilities of the Soulbound devil and the Pact of the Lords, and the normal vestiges. Do you think it would be fair, because if I can hear some reasoning for it, I could add in progression of vestiges known.

[mrcarter11]

Well, first off what book is that PrC from? I have no idea on the balance question, although I do ask about the fluff for the devils. It seemed off, more so talking about Dispater and Belial..

[MoleMage]

How are you qualifying at level 5? You include as a requirement that they have +5 BAB. A Soul Knife doesn't get +5 BAB until level 7 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/soulknife.htm) Are you playing with the Soul Knife as full BAB?

Oh I can't believe I left that in there. I'm just gonna remove the BAB requirement I think...

Edit: Ok, that takes care of that little mistake (was intended for a 5th level entry) and while I was at it I gave the overlapping abilities with Soulknife some contingencies for characters who have them already. Select a feat in place of a bonus feat you already have is a pretty normal basis; and Knife to the Soul/Knife to the Mind expanded on.

A number of the selectable abilities also come from Soulknife levels, but those are optional features that you can pass on if you have them already.

[unosarta]

Well, first off what book is that PrC from? I have no idea on the balance question, although I do ask about the fluff for the devils. It seemed off, more so talking about Dispater and Belial..

It was made by Djinn in Tonic. It really was a fantastic PrC, basically allowing you to bind Fae Lords by use of rings made of iron. Lord Gareth's prestige class for this round is also based upon it.

Also, that fluff is taken almost word for word from the Fiendish Codex II, a WotC product. Any specific fluff bits?

[Edit]: ...And here it is. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136589)

[Kallisti]

That's one for that side. This is why I run these things by people...the vision in my head isn't always the vision that others see. :smallbiggrin:

For what it's worth, I don't think anything I'd make would end up hackneyed. I was imagining less "The Force" and more "actual dripping physical manifestation of evil."

But thanks for the input. I'll see what else comes to mind. :smallbiggrin:

I actually like it, not so much as a manifestation of evil, but as a manifestation of what they perceive to be base about their nature. A physical purging of useless or base things like lust, hatred...conscience...humanity...

I dunno. If you're not going to use it I might, even though I'm pretty mediocre at homebrewing. After all it's not about winning, it's about having submitted something.

That said, is that "I beat Djinn-in-Tonic" trophy-banner-thingy still around?

EDIT: Golden-esque...didn't J.K. Rowling coin the word 'horcrux' specifically as a term for her world? It feels really jarring seeing it used in a PrC...

[Lord_Gareth]

It was made by Djinn in Tonic. It really was a fantastic PrC, basically allowing you to bind Fae Lords by use of rings made of iron. Lord Gareth's prestige class for this round is also based upon it.

Also, that fluff is taken almost word for word from the Fiendish Codex II, a WotC product. Any specific fluff bits?

[Edit]: ...And here it is. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136589)

LIES!

My class is wholly unrelated to the previous PrC created by Djinn-in-Tonic, especially since it's also wholly unrelated to binders.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

My class is wholly unrelated to the previous PrC created by Djinn-in-Tonic, especially since it's also wholly unrelated to binders.

I believe he means in concept, my friend. And even you must admit that an obvious parallel can be made between the two. :smalltongue:

The iron theme and the ferrous class feature names further reinforce the probably non-existent connection.

[Lord_Gareth]

Eh. I don't see much of a connection beyond at tenuous thematic one to iron.

By the by, I don't review Binder classes; I know nothing about binders.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Eh. I don't see much of a connection beyond at tenuous thematic one to iron.

By the by, I don't review Binder classes; I know nothing about binders.

Observe.


The Lords of Rusted Iron track down evil outsiders and lock their essence into iron shavings, using them to gain power, justice, vengeance, adoration, or anything else the Lord might quest after.


A Seiðkona of the Iron Bands is a binder who has managed--through trickery, dark magic, and bonds of cold iron--to imprison a mighty Fae Lord within a set of cold iron rings. Drawing upon the essence of the captured fae, the Seiðkona wields the power of the lord's dominion over the Faewyld, the natural magic of the world, and the lesser fae that walk the mortal and faerie realms.

See the similarity? You may not have reviewed it ever, but, once again, it proves we think in a similar fashion far to often. Unspoken Chorus/Sisters of Silence, anyone? :smalltongue:

[mrcarter11]

I guess I should check the book before I say anything, but I hardly remember it ever comparing Dispater to a coward.. Now it does however say something along those lines about Mammon.. And Belial, saying something about hating women, is not something I remember at all.. He is the devil of perverse and pleasure.. Hating women isn't likely...

[Lord_Gareth]

See the similarity? You may not have reviewed it ever, but, once again, it proves we think in a similar fashion far to often. Unspoken Chorus/Sisters of Silence, anyone? :smalltongue:

...I demand you get on Yahoo!

[unosarta]

I guess I should check the book before I say anything, but I hardly remember it ever comparing Dispater to a coward.. Now it does however say something along those lines about Mammon.. And Belial, saying something about hating women, is not something I remember at all.. He is the devil of perverse and pleasure.. Hating women isn't likely...

Basically, Dispater tries to make everyone happy, distancing allies and making alliances with his enemies. He sits in his giant, well fortified fortress and tries to do nothing that would endanger his realm. Do those sound like the actions of someone who is unafraid? It certainly doesn't to me.

As for Belial, his character isn't really described all that much in the book, mostly focusing on his less interesting daughter, who honestly bores me. For him, he has been betrayed by women all of his life. His wife died, his daughter took his kingdom, and now she conspires against him with Glasya, the daughter of Asmodeus. No woman would bed him, with his twisted and horrible features, and I don't think any of the Devils swing the other way, so it stands to reason, if I were to be examining him from only the perspective of his character, that he would feel very betrayed by those women that he has let get close to him. If you can find another interpretation of it, I would be happy to hear it. :smallsmile:

Thanks for examining the class, in any case!

@ Gareth; It is most certainly not an insult. I really like what I can see of your class so far, and that might not even be because it is similar to the Seidkona. Honestly, it is simply the first thing to come to my mind, with all of the iron references, and the fluff of the class overall. And, as Djinn has already said, your work tends to be sort of similar, which is most certainly not an insult. :smallbiggrin:

[mrcarter11]

I can see where your coming from, we just stand to have didn't viewpoints. I think of Dispater as someone who plans and schemes his way through everything. He is the one with a backup for every possible outcome. He sits in his fortress and plans the downfall of all those around him.. To me, that's intelligence and cunning.. I can see the whole making new allies, and distancing old allies.. Trying to sustain control of what is his though, isn't being a coward, it is maintaining control of the situation.

Belial, well I still don't see that one.. Sorry. He is the devil of pleasure, pain, and perverse intentions.. I don't have the book to see while I type this, but I thought it made clear his lust of woman. I also thought it said something about him being attractive to all women due to his looks.. His features forming an allure unknown to them. Also doesn't the book just make mention of his daughter being the face, while he is the real ruler with the power. Glasya hasn't taken over his daughter, that may happen in time, but I don't remember the book saying such things. The book even says that their relationship may be more then that of father and daughter... I mean, I would venture the good guess, he can get females..

[unosarta]

I can see where your coming from, we just stand to have didn't viewpoints. I think of Dispater as someone who plans and schemes his way through everything. He is the one with a backup for every possible outcome. He sits in his fortress and plans the downfall of all those around him.. To me, that's intelligence and cunning.. I can see the whole making new allies, and distancing old allies.. Trying to sustain control of what is his though, isn't being a coward, it is maintaining control of the situation.
But he does have paranoia in the bucketloads, and that is sort of what I was basing it off of. I think that it really is more of a personal thing about the hiding in the fortress being cowardice or hard planning. But, according to the description, all he does in his fortress is plan on how to keep his realml; he doesn't actually use any cunning against others for the purpose of gaining more territory; he doesn't even care about that. And when he is trying to use too much control, it seems like paranoia and fear.


Belial, well I still don't see that one.. Sorry. He is the devil of pleasure, pain, and perverse intentions.. I don't have the book to see while I type this, but I thought it made clear his lust of woman. I also thought it said something about him being attractive to all women due to his looks.. His features forming an allure unknown to them. Also doesn't the book just make mention of his daughter being the face, while he is the real ruler with the power. Glasya hasn't taken over his daughter, that may happen in time, but I don't remember the book saying such things. The book even says that their relationship may be more then that of father and daughter... I mean, I would venture the good guess, he can get females..

From what I can remember, it says specifically that his face is scarred and twisted; not as bad as Asmodeus, but that is what I remember it saying. I remember nothing about being of lust or passion. As far as I recall, all it mentions is that he is the "power behind the throne" so to speak.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

You know what, there's a ton of lore on unicorns too. In fact, I hear that they ride on silver moonbeams, and that they shoot rainbows out of their ass! - Dean Winchester

Rough draft of the Monstrumologist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9392507#post9392507) posted.

Working on a couple more abilities, as well as appropriate feats for the researcher specialty ability.

Debating on what direction I want to go for it's capstone.

[MoleMage]

Vorpal, that is a really awesome class, but doesn't it seem sort of...overly complicated? Also, a more appropriate skill list might be something like the Human Paragon class, where you pick any ten skills as class skills (plus Heal, Knowledge (all) to keep the base flavor). Just my two coppers. Yes, I am aware of the irony of suggesting that the class is too complicated and then suggesting that you add another level of complication.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Which bits in particular?

Assuming the dissection/vivisection is part of it, but boiled down it's not too bad. I just have to fill it to bursting with specifics and elaborations so that folks don't try to abuse it or misunderstand it.

Also, its meant to give a great number of abilities to counteract how they're not receiving spells or powers, but that they can gain equivalents, but only through certain methods.

As basically none of his abilities are supernatural in nature, but usable at pretty much any time, its a little more complicated to balance it, but also because he has to work harder at it than just waving his hand and speaking a mystic phrase that can then be dispelled, spell resisted or whatnot.


Also, a more appropriate skill list might be something like the Human Paragon class, where you pick any ten skills as class skills (plus Heal, Knowledge (all) to keep the base flavor).
I'm basing it after the Factotum skills, which he is meant to emulate. I want someone who can research 'any' skill so as to prepare and use it against the impossibly vast variety of creatures and abilities that he'll have to face.

[Fable Wright]

Which dominate spell is on the spell list? Person, animal, monster... what? I'd personally recommend limiting all spells to third level or below. That's the normal limit of the spell level that can be stored in a potion.

[unosarta]

Goodness! The monstrumologist is very cool, but I do have a few questions.

There is a random [center] tag after the prerequisites. Not sure why that is there.

I do not think that you really need the “Even exotic” mentioning with the Proficiencies. It is pretty obvious that you mean any weapon.

For the vivisection abilities; I am fairly sure that vivisection can only be used upon those who are alive. Otherwise, it is an autopsy. Or at least, that is what I remember from the Wikipedia article (strangely enough, I remember seeing it on the Random Banter sub-forum; weird how that works). How long does the Monstrumologist gain the sneak attack and other features gained from Knowledge from the Knife ability? If it is permanent, that leaves a lot of room for powerful combinations. Maybe he can only hold the information of one creature at a time, and multiple if he has something like a monstrous encyclopedia? It seems to reason that if he reads his notes, he can change what creature he gains the bonuses against.

For focused study; when does he gain the benefits? If it is not in the morning, or if it is possible during combat, what is the action type? Is it possible to turn off?

For giver of life, the physical portion; what if the creature does not have a head, or other discernable anatomy? Also, with other, I assume this is intentional, but the Monstrumologist makes a great torturer. They vivisect a creature, and as soon as it dies, they bring it back to life, heal it up, and then vivisect it again. That is just twisted. :smallbiggrin:

Otherwise, looks great! I really like the concept, and some very, very twisted characters could come out of this.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Which dominate spell is on the spell list? Person, animal, monster... what?
I keep forgetting that in the bloody spell version you have to choose. Psionic dominate covers all of them, you just have to ramp up the power points to affect different ones.


I'd personally recommend limiting all spells to third level or below. That's the normal limit of the spell level that can be stored in a potion.
Well, was attempting to go for potions that have non-magical equivalents.

Get a pufferfish and some roots and you got yourself a potion of dominate person.





I do not think that you really need the “Even exotic” mentioning with the Proficiencies. It is pretty obvious that you mean any weapon.
Except you 'know' someone is gonna ask.


For the vivisection abilities; I am fairly sure that vivisection can only be used upon those who are alive. Otherwise, it is an autopsy. Or at least, that is what I remember from the Wikipedia article (strangely enough, I remember seeing it on the Random Banter sub-forum; weird how that works).
Yes... vivisection is when they are very much alive. I made special note of that the first time it's mentioned:

"If he vivisects a creature, studying it's internal structure while still alive, he may, in addition to the above, determine its feats, spell-like and supernatural abilities, as well as it's race's standard HD. "

That's that reason he can only learn how to use certain abilities by vivisection, by triggering them in the creature and exploring the organs as they move. That's why the vivisection, as mentioned in the DM note, is Evil when used on a sentient creature.


How long does the Monstrumologist gain the sneak attack and other features gained from Knowledge from the Knife ability? If it is permanent, that leaves a lot of room for powerful combinations. Maybe he can only hold the information of one creature at a time, and multiple if he has something like a monstrous encyclopedia? It seems to reason that if he reads his notes, he can change what creature he gains the bonuses against.
It is permanent but only works on one creature's race. He' be able to use the knowledge on a goblin for instance, but not a hobgoblin, or a blue goblin. It's stronger, but less broad than, say, a ranger's favored enemy. He'd have to dissect a hundred creatures to get the equivalent of the ranger's.

Also, the Sneak attack only goes up to 4d6 by level 8. You're doing a total of 12 points of damage by a minimum of 13th level. That's not an impressive amount.


For focused study; when does he gain the benefits? If it is not in the morning, or if it is possible during combat, what is the action type? Is it possible to turn off?
How does normal once per day abilities work? He can change to a new study at least 24 hours after he chose the last. And no, can't turn it off, its his focus for the day.


For giver of life, the physical portion; what if the creature does not have a head, or other discernable anatomy? Also, with other, I assume this is intentional, but the Monstrumologist makes a great torturer. They vivisect a creature, and as soon as it dies, they bring it back to life, heal it up, and then vivisect it again. That is just twisted.
He can't bring something to life if it doesn't have a head or discernible anatomy. Just won't work. Unless you mean, doesn't have a head naturally. If that's the case, it can't require something it never had and is thus not of concern.

And yup, purposely meant it so he can keep bringing it to life after he's knocked it out. Twisted you can be :smallwink:

That is also why I put the stipulation that you can only gain the abilities of the creature once. Don't want him to vivisect it to death so he can bring it to life and take another ability.

You can be very, very evil with this, but good-aligned can also use it, they just keep their standards.


Otherwise, looks great! I really like the concept, and some very, very twisted characters could come out of this.
*bows*

[MoleMage]

I'm just thinking of the character sheet for a Monstrumologist; when he starts off it's not so bad, but for every creature he vivisects or autopsies, he's gonna have to add the line 'Sneak attack +1d6 against X'. For vivisection he's gonna get supernatural or spell-like abilities on top of that (some of which are permanent and some of which aren't). Change his focused study every day. Researcher Specialty is a somewhat clumsy by its sheer size. Furthermore, is Researcher Specialty a one-time thing or do you change it each day like Focused Study? It's unclear.

What do you mean by potion DC? I can understand for potions of Poison and such, but potions of Neutralize Poison that does nothing against. Besides, doesn't drinking a potion deny you your save on the spell that potion contains by default?

Focused Study's bonus to AC: do you have a penalty as well? What about weapon damage rolls? It seems like no, you don't for these cases, but clarification never hurts.

On second readthrough, it's not as complex as I originally thought, but keep in mind that if someone takes levels in this, they're gonna have a lot to keep track of that can change every 'day'. Main things for simplicity: just keep the supernatural or spell-likes limited to one per experiment; take out the clause of learning the others for only a limited time. Clarify Researcher Specialty and the potion DCs (I can't find anything that specifically states they're denied a save; though they are counted as the caster of the effect stored in the potion they drink). Clarify Focused Study.

While I'd love to be one of these, I'd never want to keep the huge list of creatures I'd taken apart. And keep in mind that like the wizard, the only limit on what abilities they can acquire is whether they can find them. This makes them extremely powerful (a clever one of at least 17 HD can get wish Int mod/day) in the wrong hands.

EDIT: What book is Factotum in?

[unosarta]

First off; metaquotes are not your friend. :smallannoyed:


Except you 'know' someone is gonna ask.
Well, yes, but it is still pretty obvious. Not necessarily something all that important.


Yes... vivisection is when they are very much alive. That's why he can only learn how to use certain abilities, by triggering them in the creature and exploring the organs as they move.
OK. That is so very wicked. :smallbiggrin:


That's why the vivisection, as mentioned in the DM note, is Evil when used on a sentient creature.
If you are using the alignment system. I like that you added that into the note, because honestly it has never made any sense to me. A society of basically all Monstromologists would be fun. :smallbiggrin:


It is permanent but only works on one creature's race. He' be able to use the knowledge on a goblin for instance, but not a hobgoblin, or a blue goblin. It's stronger, but less broad than, say, a ranger's favored enemy. He'd have to dissect a hundred creatures to get the equivalent of the ranger's.
I would say that this is a bad idea. For the purposes of fluff, if a character were premade with this class (starting at level 6 or higher), they could say that they have made thousands of vivisections, and the DM would have almost no basis for argument. The character would then essentially have a huge head start as compared to others who started this class out in game, and that seems unfair. As I mentioned above, one way that I was thinking could work would be to have the Monstrumologist only be able to have the knowledge of one race at a time, but be able to take notes on others. Also, it would make it imperative that the Monstrumologist take lots of notes, which would lead to all kinds of fun. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BadassBookworm) Just a suggestion, understandable if you don't want to.


Also, the Sneak attack only goes up to 4d6 by level 8. You're doing a total of 12 points of damage by a minimum of 13th level. That's not an impressive amount.
Even so, the idea that the Monstrumologist can remember all of that stuff about any race seems a little far fetched. Also, my problem is with the idea, not necessarily the power of it.


How does normal once per day abilities work? He can change to a new study at least 24 hours after he chose the last. And no, can't turn it off, its his focus for the day.
OK.


He can't bring something to life if it doesn't have a head or discernible anatomy. Just won't work. Unless you mean, doesn't have a head naturally. If that's the case, it can't require something it never had and is thus not of concern.
Yes, that is what I meant. OK.


And yup, purposely meant it so he can keep bringing it to life after he's knocked it out. Twisted you can be
I have and healthy respect for your ability to be twisted, as of right now, Mr. Tribble. :smalleek:


That is also why I put the stipulation that you can only gain the abilities of the creature once. Don't want him to vivisect it to death so he can bring it to life and take another ability.
That would be a problem.


*bows*
:smallbiggrin:

Also, it seems funny how much the people of this forum are suddenly able to get inspiration when the topic at hand is being twisted and evil. Compared to the rate at which the prestige classes were posted for the last contest, it becomes even more apparent. :smallwink:

[MoleMage]

Also, it seems funny how much the people of this forum are suddenly able to get inspiration when the topic at hand is being twisted and evil. Compared to the rate at which the prestige classes were posted for the last contest, it becomes even more apparent. :smallwink:

I meant to participate in the last one but still wasn't comfortable with my homebrewy-ness. Now I'm slightly more so; so now I intend to be a repeat customer.

[unosarta]

I meant to participate in the last one but still wasn't comfortable with my homebrewy-ness. Now I'm slightly more so; so now I intend to be a repeat customer.

Ah, that is understandable. It is just that during the last contest, I think we had three entries up in the day. In this one, we have eight. :smallwink:

[Fable Wright]

PEACH (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9384042&postcount=3), please. I updated some of the abilities, and added in some opening fluff. Critique on the monster entries and invocations would be appreciated. I realize that it's not done (I at least need to give all of the class abilities some more fluff...), but it would be appreciated if someone could critique what I had so far. :smallsmile:

[The Vorpal Tribble]

I'm just thinking of the character sheet for a Monstrumologist; when he starts off it's not so bad, but for every creature he vivisects or autopsies, he's gonna have to add the line 'Sneak attack +1d6 against X'. For vivisection he's gonna get supernatural or spell-like abilities on top of that (some of which are permanent and some of which aren't).
I personally don't see any problem in keeping a list of creatures. To obtain most will require quite a bit of work, and should stay fresh in his memory.


Change his focused study every day.
He can, but if he's on the trail of a creature for days, or even weeks, he should be able to keep it indefinitely.


Researcher Specialty is a somewhat clumsy by its sheer size. Furthermore, is Researcher Specialty a one-time thing or do you change it each day like Focused Study? It's unclear.
No, you pick a single creature type and specialize in it.


What do you mean by potion DC? I can understand for potions of Poison and such, but potions of Neutralize Poison that does nothing against.
If the potion doesn't have a DC then it doesn't apply.


Besides, doesn't drinking a potion deny you your save on the spell that potion contains by default?
I just looked over the potion to make sure, but I've never heard of that, and it doesn't mention it in what I can find.


Focused Study's bonus to AC: do you have a penalty as well? What about weapon damage rolls? It seems like no, you don't for these cases, but clarification never hurts.
No, no penalties to those. Clarified in the text.



Main things for simplicity: just keep the supernatural or spell-likes limited to one per experiment; take out the clause of learning the others for only a limited time.
Mmm, suppose could do that.


While I'd love to be one of these, I'd never want to keep the huge list of creatures I'd taken apart.


And keep in mind that like the wizard, the only limit on what abilities they can acquire is whether they can find them. This makes them extremely powerful (a clever one of at least 17 HD can get wish Int mod/day) in the wrong hands.
Heh, there is that. Was just hoping all that would make up for not having psi/spell progression of any kind.



EDIT: What book is Factotum in?
Dungeonscape.





I would say that this is a bad idea. For the purposes of fluff, if a character were premade with this class (starting at level 6 or higher), they could say that they have made thousands of vivisections, and the DM would have almost no basis for argument. The character would then essentially have a huge head start as compared to others who started this class out in game, and that seems unfair.
Well, except you can do the same thing with Wizard or Archivist spells as well. It's a DM's decision how to keep it balanced. I personally would make the player keep to only creatures that he could have conceivably ran across via his backstory.


As I mentioned above, one way that I was thinking could work would be to have the Monstrumologist only be able to have the knowledge of one race at a time, but be able to take notes on others. Also, it would make it imperative that the Monstrumologist take lots of notes, which would lead to all kinds of fun. Just a suggestion, understandable if you don't want to.
If he only could recall one however it'd strip so much needed power from him.

Also, how does an alchemist keep in his head the thousands of mixtures? Or a sorcerer all the needed mannerisms and such. Spells tend to be at very complex.

I'd leave the method up to his fluff. He could say he remembers it through Autohypnosis, notes, or an obsession with the creature. That last is enough for some.

I just don't want to underpower him and force on a mechanic that could be explained through alternative RP.


Even so, the idea that the Monstrumologist can remember all of that stuff about any race seems a little far fetched. Also, my problem is with the idea, not necessarily the power of it.
How does the rogue keep in his head the vital organs of every single type period that has them, not just those he studied? Mine is at least realistic.


I have and healthy respect for your ability to be twisted, as of right now, Mr. Tribble.
Don't ever doubt me.
Stupid quote not registering as typed text...

[unosarta]

HURGH, more metaquotes.


Well, except you can do the same thing with Wizard or Archivist spells as well. It's a DM's decision how to keep it balanced. I personally would make the player keep to only creatures that he could have conceivably ran across via his backstory.
Except, a DM could say that the character had to pay for the spells they scribed into their books; no sane spellcaster is going to give away stuff for free, and if the wizard were to try to force, he would likely have to pay reparations for destroying things, or simply pay for the assault charges that are sure to come.

Since a Monstrumologist has no such way to keep it realistic. One could say that they were part of an organization, which allowed them to commit hundreds of thousands of operations, or as a mortician. Really, there isn't much of a way to rationalize that.


If he only could recall one however it'd strip so much needed power from him.
Why? If he could change it at any time (especially if given notes), it seems to me that he wouldn't lose much. Also, if you increased the benefits from his abilities, that might give him some more oomph.


Also, how does an alchemist keep in his head the thousands of mixtures? Or a sorcerer all the needed mannerisms and such. Spells tend to be at very complex.
Alchemists are trained specifically for alchemy, and must make a skill check in order, partially, to show the fact that they must recall exactly how a potion or mixture works. A failure means they misremembered. Honestly, an alchemist is a bad example, simply because those skills make no sense based on verisimilitude. Compare this to the Sorcerer; he knows his magic innately. It is not something he has learned, it is something he just knows. Those gestures; he knew them from birth. Was he necessarily able to apply the power? Not necessarily. However, this does not change the fact that his magic is innate. The Monstrumologist does not gain his power from innate magic. He gains it from the study of the biological structures of monsters. And if you were to use Alchemy as a basis for example, than the Monstrumologist knows about every single monster already, but has to make the check to remember things about them, in the same way that Alchemists apparently know all mixtures and potions, but simply have to do the check to remember them, or do them correctly. That just seems ridiculous. Basing something off of a broken precedence, does not a good verisimilitude make. :smallwink:


I'd leave the method up to his fluff. He could say he remembers it through Autohypnosis, notes, or an obsession with the creature. That last is enough for some.
Obsession with, say, every creature if he starts out already in this class? :smallannoyed:


I just don't want to underpower him and force on a mechanic that could be explained through alternative RP.
I do not see how it would necessarily be underpowered. And allowing him to do it with every creature in a game that starts above ECL 6 doesn't seem very nice either. Just saying.


How does the rogue keep in his head the vital organs of every single type period that has them, not just those he studied? Mine is at least realistic.
He doesn't. As far as I can tell (and this may not apply, since almost nothing has been written about D&D biology), all creatures share the same major biological structures. Those he cannot sneak attack, do not have these biological structures, and the rogue cannot hit them. Honestly, not enough has been explained about how sneak attack works for that to really be justification, in my mind.


Don't ever doubt me.
I won't. :smalleek:

Is it me, or did that sound like a threat? I kind of want to start doubting you, just to see what sort of eldritch horror would appear. :smallwink:

[MoleMage]

Alright, I no longer feel it's too complicated. Plus, in character, it would be entertaining to maintain a creepy medical journal of all the things I've taken apart and what I learned from each one. Maybe I would play one of these after all.

One other nit-picky thing that I just saw, Tribble: inflicting a Deformity feat on someone should probably give them that feat as a bonus feat; mainly a specifying it so it's not abused thing (capture someone and force them to take a feat which they just can't use as one of their level-up feats isn't much of an abuse but still someone will come up with a way to do it).

I don't have Dungeonscape, so anything I say here is completely based off of what is before me.

EDIT: I have added some fluff for the Mental Reaper, as well as another class ability (I can't believe I didn't give these guys a bonus on saves against death effects before now). Still trying to decide whether to stat out Madman and give a sample encounter using him.

[BladeofOblivion]

Okay, you can't really PEACH my creation without the Pacts, which make up the bulk of the class, but what do you guys think so far of my (Evil) Creation. I even managed to think of a way to build a Nonevil character with a seemingly Evil-only class!

[The Vorpal Tribble]

@Uno


Except, a DM could say that the character had to pay for the spells they scribed into their books; no sane spellcaster is going to give away stuff for free, and if the wizard were to try to force, he would likely have to pay reparations for destroying things, or simply pay for the assault charges that are sure to come.
Assault charges... hmmmm.

I would really rather him be able to keep the knowledge in his head if he has one though.


Why? If he could change it at any time (especially if given notes), it seems to me that he wouldn't lose much. Also, if you increased the benefits from his abilities, that might give him some more oomph.
How do you mean change it at any time?

If its once per round, that'd be fine, and be pretty much what he already has. Is unlikely he'd face several completely different types at the same time. In fact, he'd still be retaining the knowledge.



Alchemists are trained specifically for alchemy, and must make a skill check in order, partially, to show the fact that they must recall exactly how a potion or mixture works. A failure means they misremembered.
That was just the first thought that came into my head. But remember, this guy has had years and years to practice. How about a veterinarian who has many dozens of animal's anatomies in their head, from dog and cat to rodent bird and horse?


I do not see how it would necessarily be underpowered. And allowing him to do it with every creature in a game that starts above ECL 6 doesn't seem very nice either. Just saying.
Any DM worth his salt would be able to figure out how to lower it from infinity.

If you say a wizard or archivist had to pay for scrolls, why not say he had to pay for his corpses (or live samples)? Or bribe money to be allowed into the mortuary.


As far as I can tell (and this may not apply, since almost nothing has been written about D&D biology), all creatures share the same major biological structures. Those he cannot sneak attack, do not have these biological structures, and the rogue cannot hit them. Honestly, not enough has been explained about how sneak attack works for that to really be justification, in my mind.
You can chop off a cockroach's head and it will live for days. Chop off a lizard's tail and it will grow it back. Rip out most of a human's liver and it'll regenerate.

Just in the normal world we don't come close to sharing the same structures.

In D&D they are incredible different. Look at the difference between a Beholder and a Kobold, a Trumpet Archon and a Giant Scorpion, Warforged and a Will'o'the'wisp. In fact, most aberrations are wholly different even from each other. Lords of Madness goes into detail on a number, as does the Draconimicon.

No logical reason a Rogue should be capable of this. But it's cool and it's in the game.

I mean, I know where you're coming from, but though I'm trying to keep this relatively (pseudo)scientifical, I think to push it farther down that road will see us running over catgirls.



Is it me, or did that sound like a threat? I kind of want to start doubting you, just to see what sort of eldritch horror would appear. :smallwink:
Two Words: Megaquote Golem.

In igpay atinlay.

See if I won't.

[unosarta]

@VT



Assault charges... hmmmm.
... for a moment there, I thought you had written "mmmmmm." And it didn't even surprise me. :smalleek:


I would really rather him be able to keep the knowledge in his head if he has one though.
Um, this sentence makes me so confused. In his head, if he has one? Who are you talking about, the wizard, archivist, this class? Why wouldn't they have a head? What? :smallfrown:


How do you mean change it at any time?
As in, they take a full round to study their notes, and can change the race against whom they have Knowledge from the Knife. If they complete a vivisection without notes, they manage to hold the information until they get a chance to write everything they have noticed down, I.E., they keep the benefits until they change it, and then they loose it forever, until they vivisect/dissect another creature of that race, or unless they manage to take notes on it.


If its once per round, that'd be fine, and be pretty much what he already has. Is unlikely he'd face several completely different types at the same time. In fact, he'd still be retaining the knowledge.
See above. Also, from what I can tell from the wording, it is permanent, against all creatures of that race. So, if you vivisected/dissected an elf and a human, you would not have to choose who you gained the benefits against. You automatically gain them against both. If that is not what you are saying, please correct me.


That was just the first thought that came into my head. But remember, this guy has had years and years to practice. How about a veterinarian who has many dozens of animal's anatomies in their head, from dog and cat to rodent bird and horse?
Um, I have no doubt that they would still keep an encyclopedia handy, especially when risking a patient over something like that. This brings up the question. What if the Monstrumologist misremembers? Do they really want to take the risk of harm to their allies, if they are unable to kill the monster? Even for evil characters, if you have been working with a party long enough to get to at least level 6, it stands to reason that you would want to be as accurate and effective as possible. If a patient dies on you as a veterinarian because you misremembered something and went ahead with a procedure anyway, how will you be able to handle the guilt? If I were a
Monstrumologist, I know I would never, ever trust my memory for something like that.


If you say a wizard or archivist had to pay for scrolls, why not say he had to pay for his corpses (or live samples)? Or bribe money to be allowed into the mortuary.
Maybe you should mention this somewhere in the class then? Like, "If you implement this PrC before actually starting play, it is generally a good idea to add a cost per race vivisected/dissected equal to X gp per HD the race possesses." Or something like that.



Just in the normal world we don't come close to sharing the same structures.
Well, I disagree slightly here. The major weak spots are pretty much uniform across most phyla, and even most kingdom, except for bacteria, plants, fungi, protozoans and other smaller than accessible by the naked eye kingdoms. Also, there really needs to be a sort of book of biology for D&D, if only so as to reduce confusions created in situations like this (it has always surprised me that WotC actively suggests that DMs homebrew, but then doesn't cover their bases with all of the homebrew possibilities. :smallsigh:).


In D&D they are incredible different. Look at the difference between a Beholder and a Kobold, a Trumpet Archon and a Giant Scorpion, Warforged and a Will'o'the'wisp. In fact, most aberrations are wholly different even from each other. Lords of Madness goes into detail on a number, as does the Draconimicon.
If I remember correctly, aberrations are immune to sneak attacks anyway. And since biology is almost never covered within D&D itself, it can be argued that they should be sneak attackable anyway, seeing as there is not reason as to why they cannot have their own versions of the major organs. For instance, Beholders have mouths. Why? They need to eat and breathe, assumably. So, from this, we can hypothesize that they also have a digestive system. If they do, that means that they also have some sort of waste disposal area. If they do, and the rogue finds it, it is almost guaranteed that it will be less defended from outside harm that other areas, seeing as it allows for direct damage to internal tissues. At the very least, it will make it very hard for the Beholder to poo for a while. :smallbiggrin:
Really, this can be applied for almost any creature, since the artists and creators created them mostly on living structures.


No logical reason a Rogue should be capable of this. But it's cool and it's in the game.
See above. During an encounter, it can be assumed that the rogue is making such logical connections. They have huge amounts of combat experience, and they make heavy use of it.


I mean, I know where you're coming from, but though I'm trying to keep this relatively (pseudo)scientifical, I think to push it farther down that road will see us running over catgirls.
I know I should care about the catgirls, but I honestly stopped after I found the picture of Youko from Gurren Lagann as a catgirl. I think a little bit of me died that day.


Two Words: Megaquote Golem.

In igpay atinlay.

See if I won't.

:smalleek::smalleek::smalleek::smalleek:
Please, please! For the children! FOR THE CHILDREN!
*Sobs*

[Demons_eye]

VT have you read The Monstrumologist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monstrumologist) by Rick Yancey by any chance?

Edit: I don't think that came out how I would have liked it. If you haven't read the above I would suggest it for as it has a mundane feel of your monstrumologist. Maybe you fine a nice capstone like a worm that makes you life forever.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

VT have you read The Monstrumologist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monstrumologist) by Rick Yancey by any chance?
Yup, saw the description of it sometime back, and it looked right up my alley. It inspired the name in fact, though I've had the concept in my 'D&D Ideas' folder since long before I read it. Haruspicy was the only ability I'd written for it before this contest came up.

Geeze... looks like my oldest idea in there is over 8 years old.


Maybe you fine a nice capstone like a worm that makes you life forever.
HA! :smallamused:


@Uno


... for a moment there, I thought you had written "mmmmmm." And it didn't even surprise me.
*grins*


Um, this sentence makes me so confused. In his head, if he has one? Who are you talking about, the wizard, archivist, this class? Why wouldn't they have a head? What?

As in, they take a full round to study their notes, and can change the race against whom they have Knowledge from the Knife. If they complete a vivisection without notes, they manage to hold the information until they get a chance to write everything they have noticed down, I.E., they keep the benefits until they change it, and then they loose it forever, until they vivisect/dissect another creature of that race, or unless they manage to take notes on it.
To keep the information in his head so he didn't have to lug around an entire library is what I meant.

I mean, at least a spell only takes up so many pages. An entire creature would fill a book on its own.

I just don't see the mainstay of this build being lowered like that. The one thing everything else is built around. It'd be far worse than a Ranger's Favored Enemy as he can only choose a race instead of a type.


See above. Also, from what I can tell from the wording, it is permanent, against all creatures of that race. So, if you vivisected/dissected an elf and a human, you would not have to choose who you gained the benefits against. You automatically gain them against both. If that is not what you are saying, please correct me.
That's what I originally had it as. I'm thinking maybe he has to make a Successful autohypnosis check to recall everything about it... except that just makes it all the more complicated.


Um, I have no doubt that they would still keep an encyclopedia handy, especially when risking a patient over something like that. This brings up the question. What if the Monstrumologist misremembers?
Yeah, btu again, he just can't lug around a library. There are equally unlikely abilities... like Favored enemy.

How does he recall enough about them to gain all his benefits from every single monstrous humanoid? Centaurs and Merfolk are completely different in every regard, yet he knows how to handle them.

Or what about an Archivist. He remembers secrets and weaknesses of all creatures of 'two' different kinds, and he doesn't require a book (that's merely for his spells).

There has to be a balance between realism and usability.


Well, I disagree slightly here. The major weak spots are pretty much uniform across most phyla, and even most kingdom, except for bacteria, plants, fungi, protozoans and other smaller than accessible by the naked eye kingdoms.
Only roughly. Except for the brain we may have organs completely different from others, and in different places. When you have to make a precise blow, you need to know where it is within inches.

Good luck trying to strike a fish in the lungs for instance, or a snake in the heart.


If I remember correctly, aberrations are immune to sneak attacks anyway
Nope, they aren't immune.

Constructs, Elementals, Oozes, Plants, and Undead are the only ones.

And how do rogues figure out Outsiders? They don't even eat or sleep. That means a utterly different internal system, but they obviously have one.


If they do, that means that they also have some sort of waste disposal area. If they do, and the rogue finds it, it is almost guaranteed that it will be less defended from outside harm that other areas, seeing as it allows for direct damage to internal tissues. At the very least, it will make it very hard for the Beholder to poo for a while.
Actually, Lords of Madness goes into that exact subject. You know all that oozes it's constantly dripping? Yeah, that's its waste material. Beholders literally talk sh*t :smallamused:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/lom_gallery/88101.jpg

Can find some more aberrations innards here:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ag/20050415a

[unosarta]

@VT



*grins*
Oh, you cheeky devil, you! :smalltongue:


To keep the information in his head so he didn't have to lug around an entire library is what I meant.
Ah. Well, it seems thematic to me. Or maybe a magical item that allows him to store a lot of information without all of the pages, and also gives the user a search function amongst the information? You could call it Gugal. :smallbiggrin:


I mean, at least a spell only takes up so many pages. An entire creature would fill a book on its own.
Maybe, maybe not. If the Monstrumologist has an incredibly good memory, then all he would need would be a few descriptions and a drawing, even a sketch.


I just don't see the mainstay of this build being lowered like that. The one thing everything else is built around. It'd be far worse than a Ranger's Favored Enemy as he can only choose a race instead of a type.
Again, you don't even need an entire book. Maybe, if you were to add bonuses to cultural checks, or social interactions, I could see it. Otherwise, I doubt that most creatures are that biologically complex.


That's what I originally had it as. I'm thinking maybe he has to make a Successful autohypnosis check to recall everything about it... except that just makes it all the more complicated.
Why does it make it more complicated? At least that way it actually mechanically shows that he has memorized it, and needs to access his memory. I would have no problem with that. It is just that for every creature he has ever vivisected/dissected? That requires a lot of bookkeeping and a lot of ridiculous verisimilitude breaking going on.


Yeah, but again, he just can't lug around a library. There are equally unlikely abilities... like Favored enemy.
Just because there is a precedent of a bad ability doesn't mean you should limit yourself to it. Favored enemy requires that the Ranger focus on that creature type. They know the ins and outs of it, and having it down pat. If they try to learn another creature, they won't be so great with it. It is reflected mechanically. With this class, it isn't. If they have done it before, they automatically gain the bonuses. :smallconfused:


How does he recall enough about them to gain all his benefits from every single monstrous humanoid? Centaurs and Merfolk are completely different in every regard, yet he knows how to handle them.
Um, how so? How are they different? Both are vaguely humanoidal, and both have a very, very similar upper-body structure, where most of the major important organs are located. I do not see your point.


Or what about an Archivist. He remembers secrets and weaknesses of all creatures of 'two' different kinds, and he doesn't require a book (that's merely for his spells).
I don't know. I know that the archivist gains that ability through Dark Knowledge. It might have something to do with that. Honestly, I don't think enough is said about that particular ability for it to be accurately accounted for.


There has to be a balance between realism and usability.
Hopefully there is. It seems to be hiding pretty well though. :smallwink:


Only roughly. Except for the brain we may have organs completely different from others, and in different places. When you have to make a precise blow, you need to know where it is within inches.
Do you? From the PHB I have right in front of me, the reading for sneak attack says that "she can strike a vital spot for extra damage." In what way does that constitute "within an inch"? I see no mention of inches or centimeters. It is incredibly vague. Basing class features on other, vague class features is in most cases not the best of ideas.


Good luck trying to strike a fish in the lungs for instance, or a snake in the heart.
The fish has discernible gills, and the snake has an intestinal opening on its underside to the back. I see no problem here. In no way, from what I can tell from an admittedly vague ability, does "vital spot" always mean organ. I have been defining it as so, because that makes a lot of sense for the constructs, plants incorporeal creatures and undead. However, from a strict reading, it is not only organs. I guess you could consider that one my bad for referencing organs most of this time, however that still doesn't change the fact that those have discernible anatomies that can be found fairly easily, especially the larger they get, and when they are most small, almost any opening on the snake or fishes part could be deadly for them.


Nope, they aren't immune.

Constructs, Elementals, Oozes, Plants, and Undead are the only ones.

And how do rogues figure out Outsiders? They don't even eat or sleep. That means a utterly different internal system, but they obviously have one.
I think that is just a really stupid mistake on WotC's part, or at least, I hope it is.


Actually, Lords of Madness goes into that exact subject. You know all that oozes it's constantly dripping? Yeah, that's its waste material. Beholders literally talk sh*t :smallamused:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/lom_gallery/88101.jpg
What? And no one simply waits till they are excrement spewing before sneaking up from behind and killing them by stabbing through their outer layers of skin and into almost completely terribly placed internal organs? Seriously, who planned that out, and why does any being have all of it's internal organs perfectly positioned so as to be hit the easiest? :smallsigh:
And I am sure that you can't crit oozes anyway.


Can find some more aberrations innards here:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ag/20050415a
Interesting, although, to be honest, from what I can see, they have completely standard biological structures, the Aboleth looking almost exactly like a mammalian fish, if such a thing existed. Actually, yeah, pretty much all have at least standard, and maybe a little bit different organ structures, but not different enough that I would say that a skilled rogue wouldn't be able to use logic to find weak spots, which is exactly what sneak attack is anyway.


UGH, I was writing the Dread Cabal before this, and their banality is almost physically painful. :smallyuk:

[Edit]: Now that all of the fluff is done, barring the sample NPC, does anyone have any comments on balance or fluff?

[Zom B]

The basics for the Reaper, one of the weirdest PrCs you will ever see, are up. Yes, the BAB and saves are supposed to be outside-the-box in progression. It's new territory for, I think, everybody here, so it's still a WIP for me. If anyone wants to chime in, feel free.

[MoleMage]

If you're referring to the dying as a capstone Zom, this is only the second prestige class I've seen with that trait. The first was the Reaper's good counterpart: Risen Martyr, in Book of Exalted Deeds.

If you mean non-standard BAB and Saves, I can't think of any. Can't say I've ever seen any classes that grant an experience bonus either.

[Golden-Esque]

"Yo Zom B, you have an intriguing class, and I'mma let you finish talkin' 'bout it, but Risen Martyr did the "kill yourself as a capstone" thing first."

Sorry. I couldn't resist :smallamused:.

Any who, I plan on critiquing some more of the classes on Wednesday / Thursday and I also want to get another look at the fixed up Hellforged Artifcer, so expect that in the next couple days from me. Gotta stay on top of my PEACHing or it'll overwhelm me.

In the meantime, if anyone has any more comments on my class. the Myr'Shejae, I'd really appreciate them.

[Magicyop]

Okay, so it's my first time entering in the contest... I hope I didn't do too poorly! Please PEACH (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9395447#post9395447) my Nightbeast. :-P

I'm not done with the sample Nightbeast (Frothor) but while I work on that, I'd like some critique. Other than that the class is basically finished unless I need to change something.

ALSO! If anyone has any pictures they think would fit the class I'd be very grateful. I couldn't find any. Thank you so much for helping a newbie to the contest. :smallbiggrin:

[Zom B]

If you're referring to the dying as a capstone Zom, this is only the second prestige class I've seen with that trait. The first was the Reaper's good counterpart: Risen Martyr, in Book of Exalted Deeds.

If you mean non-standard BAB and Saves, I can't think of any. Can't say I've ever seen any classes that grant an experience bonus either.

And the experience bonus is probably going to be removed. I know that levels 2-4 don't really give the reaper much beyond some more hit points and so accelerating them through that seems harmless, but I can see someone using it to get extra class levels. Of course, the rate of reaper recruit is ultimately up to the DM, so if he or she believes that the reaper is being abused, they can create a drought of recruits.

And going into this, the inspirations were pretty much Risen Martyr and Dead Like Me. Of course, the class is kind of an immortality pyramid scheme as is.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

@Uno
Well, I'll think on it is all I can say. You think one, I think another...

Any third party wanna weigh in and help close this Triangle of Critiques? :smallwink:



UGH, I was writing the Dread Cabal before this, and their banality is almost physically painful. :smallyuk:
Naw, the interest is simply in what each fiend gives you.

I'll look over entries here and there tonight. Maybe help give me an idea for a capstone.

Leaning towards him getting a certain special reputation, but haven't thought of any actual 'abilities' to go with it.

Thought for a time that none of the afterlife locales would take him because of their fear of him using the opportunity to ply his craft or raise up and challenge the high uppers. But then realized that really wouldn't be fair to the good-aligned.

Another possibility is he starts to study the gods and gets like a single divine rank because of it.

[Fable Wright]

I'll critique yours if you critique mine...

[unosarta]

@Uno
Well, I'll think on it is all I can say. You think one, I think another...

Any third party wanna weigh in and help close this Triangle of Critiques? :smallwink:
Yeah, our rhetoric was getting kind of cyclical.
As long as you think on it, and are sure exactly of what you are doing, I have no real problem with it. :smallsmile:



Naw, the interest is simply in what each fiend gives you.

I'll look over entries here and there tonight. Maybe help give me an idea for a capstone.

Leaning towards him getting a certain special reputation, but haven't thought of any actual 'abilities' to go with it.

Thought for a time that none of the afterlife locales would take him because of their fear of him using the opportunity to ply his craft or raise up and challenge the high uppers. But then realized that really wouldn't be fair to the good-aligned.

Another possibility is he starts to study the gods and gets like a single divine rank because of it.

:smallconfused: I was talking about the organization that most Cabalists of the Heinous Realms work for, the Dread Cabal. And banal as in, the amount of paperwork and bureaucracy they have to deal with is practically physically painful.

I would shy away from the idea of a divine rank. Usually, you have to get past epic before that even becomes relevant, and if it is before epic, than it makes the character really, really powerful (some Salient Divine Abilities are insane!)

Maybe something like, he knows the exact weaknesses every race has, and against those he gains the bonus against, he can force a save or die once or twice every encounter? It might work.

[Fable Wright]

Peach for VT:
Frankly, this class may get to be a bit powerful against anything it's ever fought before. Especially in any game centered around an individual race. However, my views on this aside, here are my critiques:
Dissection: Frankly, you are giving them alot with this ability the second they get it; I can forsee a rogue getting a one level dip in this class, and then loading up on special powers. And here's what happens: She dissects a human, elf, and dwarf. Now, whenever she fights against a common race, she now gets the wounding and keen properties in most fights against humanoids, and with it doubling twice from an improved critical feat, she now has a critical multiplier on her rapier 12-20/x2 or higher, depending on where she puts her feats. All I suggest is that you stagger all of the other benefits of dissection out along the table, perhaps labeling them, "Dissection (1d6), Dissection (Improved critical)", representing the training required to apply the knowledge accurately. It also prevents that rogue from dipping with a single level. I really like this ability, but what I don't like is the lack of representing the sneak attack damage on it in the table, and the sheer amount of power that it gives up front.

Vivisection: May want some notes on the details, here. For example, also noting that it takes an hour long process up front, and giving the details of it. Does the target have to be unconcious or helpless? What kind of damage does a vivisection do to a creature? It's not specified if it's taking damage each round, or what happens if the creature dies during the vivisection. One last thing I'd like to mention is: What do you mean that it "Increases the number of times per day you can use this ability"? Does it mean that they can use that particular spell-like ability more often, or do they have a cap on the total number of powers they can possess. Also, what happens if the creature has spellcasting power that it gains from racial abilities? Like dragons or mind flayers. Do they gain the ability to use some of those spells as SLAs, or does their vivisection have no effect on that, or what? Lastly, what kind of damage is done after the vivisection is complete? Is there permanent stat damage, or just HP damage that can be recovered from? This may determine whether or not an ally chooses to be vivisected by the monstrumologist voluntarily, albeit with a cleric overseeing the operation, so that the monstrumologist can gain additional powers against their race (Like humans. There are alot of human villains, and it can be hazardous to vivisect a human being held against their will in a town. If a human ally volunteers to be vivisected, as there is only temporary stat damage and possibly only little risk of death, it is less likely that the law will come into play, and it grants the monstrumologist bonus powers.)

Obsessive concentration: I like the ability, it ties well into the fluff, but what do you mean, "He gains a +10 bonus to Concentration checks to avoid being distracted. He also does not have to make a Concentration check due to receiving damage." Why would he need to make a concentration check for receiving damage, and what would he be distracted by? Do those play a part in other class abilities? If so, please specify.

Also, the bonus seems a little high. I would consider lowering it to +5 at first level, possibly an additional +5 at 5th level. Likewise, with the bonus against fear, I would consider lowering that to a +5, possibly an extra bonus later on. Also, with the immunity to sickened, you might want to make a note that any nausea that the character might feel instead only makes them sickened (against which this ability does not apply). Other than that, the ability seems good.

For the 'focused study' ability, I really like this feature. I only have one question- of they specify a mage, manifester, etc. as their chosen focus, what qualifies as the "Same type of creature" for the purposes of the beings who did not gain the penalty or the bonus. Is it all humanoids? Or what? Also, since creatures like dragons have spellcasting progressions, do they count as a target for the 'Mage' profession? One last question- how long does it take to change focus after the 24 hours? I'm asking this in case the monstrumologist wants to change the specialty in combat- which could be very useful, depending on the circumstances.

Also- Secret piercer- I like the ability, but a permanent true seeing effect pretty much neuters all hidden surprises a DM might want to throw at a party. At 14th level, they get immunity to illusions, the ability to remain unsurprised by invisibility or other things, etc.. I would really consider dropping that "continuous" thing. I'd personally recommend having it so that it's at will, and lasts as long as the monstrumologist concentrates. This way, they can still be ambushed unless they suspect it, and it places less limits on the DM. I would also recommend doing the same with the permanent see invisibility power, by making it use-activated.

Haruspicy: I like it; not too overpowered, but it does grant some useful abilities when they're needed.

Induce vomiting: good. This is a situational power, but it's really useful when it comes up. However, it's not too overpowered.

Sneak attack: I'd recommend having the progression increase somewhat, if only by +1d6 at 8th level or so.

Elixers: I recommend setting a universal DC for these; it stops people from spamming dominate person potions at social occasions, dominating all of the castle guard. Setting it at 14+Int mod sounds good; they still have use,l but it won't be too overpowerful.

Live to fight another day: +10ft base land speed: good. Run feat: overkill.

If the right eyestalk offend thee...: I like this power; it's pretty good, level-based, and it does have alot of use, but is not too overpowerful.

Research specialty: It's fine, considering the level you get it. But perhaps only giving them one feat, but allowing them to change it each day like the chameleon's ability fits with the class better.

Giver of life: good power; I like it.


And there's my peach. I like the class, but some of the abilities need rewording.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

I'll critique yours if you critique mine...
I was already going over it, so good deal :smallwink:

This is a really cool class, though I could have sworn I've read this before. Krimm maybe?

I'm worried about it being far too strong for the level however.


The four grades of draconic invocations, in order of their relative power, are least, lesser, greater, and dark.
Draconic invocation?


This ability leaves behind hellsteel; up to 5lb/extra d6 of damage.
5 'pounds'? :smalleek:

That's... a lot of hellsteel. That much molten metal should kill them though. How about ounces?

Also, where does it come from? If he can do it with any steel, I'd mention he has to pick it up or something.


Reforge: At third level, whenever a hellforge artificer deals enough fire damage to a construct, or group of constructs, that he made to destroy it, he may instead reforge the construct(s).
Why would he be destroying his own constructs? :smallconfused:


Soul powered (Ex):
Thinaun blade (Ex):
Destruction of a soul is pretty powerful, especially as a 3rd level ability, as you can't resurrect them or anything.

These are like a stronger version of Soul Bind, which is a 9th level spell. A sorcerer can't even cast that until 18th level. You can do it at 11th... every single death.

I know it's what your class is based after, but seriously, that's some pretty rawly epic stuff going on. Maybe mention the soul isn't destroyed, its simply 'used'. Once its energy has been drained it can leave.

Then at a later level let them kill the soul itself. That'd be a good addition to the capstone in fact.


Undead fusion: ... he can fuse the animated corpse of one if his undead to any of the hellforge artificer's constructs.
corpse of one of his undead?


Soul Effigy
A 42 HD, CR 18 construct by 18th level... that's stretching some overpowering as well, but I'd have to see it in action.

Mechanum

Mainly nitpicks:


Speed: 40ft
40 ft. (8 squares)


Armor Class: 16 (+1 Dex, +5 Natural, +1 Size), touch 11, flat-footed 15
Armor Class: 17 (+1 Dex, +5 Natural, +1 Size), touch 12, flat-footed 16


Attack: Slam +5 melee (1d6+3)*
Full Attack: 2 Slams +5 melee (1d6+3)*
+6 melee
(+2 bab, +3 str, +1 size)


Base Attack/Grapple: +2*/+2*
Though I know it'd usually be the same as the master, Grapple would be +1 (+2 BAB, +3 Str, -4 size)


Special Qualities:
Though obvious, needs 'construct traits' mentioned.


Myrron


Hit Dice: 4d10+10 (26 hp)
Would be 32 hp.


Speed: 30ft
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)


Armor Class: 19 (+3 Dex, +5 Natural, +1 Size), touch 14, flat-footed 15
flat-footed = 16


Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+3
Grapple would be +4
(+3 BAB, +5 Str, -4 Size)


Attack: Slam +8 melee (1d6+5)
Full Attack: 2 Slams +5 melee (1d6+5)
Both would be +9 melee (+1 size mod)


Special Qualities:
Construct traits


Lifeclasp


Speed: 40ft
40 ft. (8 squares)


Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+8
Grapple is -10
(+1 BAB, -3 Str, -8 size)

I'd just give it a Grapple bonus in its drain ability. +4 grapple bonuses are standard for particularly grapply creatures.


Attack: Bite -1 (1d2-1 plus drain)
Full Attack: Bite -1 (1d2-1 plus drain)
Bite +0 melee (1d2-3 plus drain)

(+1 BAB, +2 size, -3 Str)


Soul Effigy


Hit Dice: 42d10+40 (205 hp)
271 hp

(42 x 5.5 + 40)


Speed: 30ft
30 ft. (6 squares)


Attack: Slam +47 Melee (4d8+15)
Full Attack: 2 Slams +47 Melee (4d8+15)
31 BAB + 15 Str - 2 size = +44 melee


Special Attacks: -
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60ft., Damage reduction 15/-, Low-light vision, Soul assimilation, Spell immunity
Soul Assimilation would best be placed as an attack I think.

Construct traits in special qualities.

[Fable Wright]

I was already going over it, so good deal :smallwink:

This is a really cool class, though I could have sworn I've read this before. Krimm maybe?

I'm worried about it being far too strong for the level however.


Draconic invocation?


5 'pounds'? :smalleek:

That's... a lot of hellsteel. That much molten metal should kill them though. How about ounces?

Also, where does it come from? If he can do it with any steel, I'd mention he has to pick it up or something.


Why would he be destroying his own constructs? :smallconfused:


Destruction of a soul is pretty powerful, especially as a 3rd level ability, as you can't resurrect them or anything.

These are like a stronger version of Soul Bind, which is a 9th level spell. A sorcerer can't even cast that until 18th level. You can do it at 11th... every single death.

I know it's what your class is based after, but seriously, that's some pretty rawly epic stuff going on. Maybe mention the soul isn't destroyed, its simply 'used'. Once its energy has been drained it can leave.

Then at a later level let them kill the soul itself. That'd be a good addition to the capstone in fact.


corpse of one of his undead?


A 42 HD, CR 18 construct by 18th level... that's stretching some overpowering as well, but I'd have to see it in action.

Mechanum

Mainly nitpicks:


40 ft. (8 squares)


Armor Class: 17 (+1 Dex, +5 Natural, +1 Size), touch 12, flat-footed 16


+6 melee
(+2 bab, +3 str, +1 size)


Though I know it'd usually be the same as the master, Grapple would be +1 (+2 BAB, +3 Str, -4 size)


Though obvious, needs 'construct traits' mentioned.


Myrron


Would be 32 hp.


Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)


flat-footed = 16


Grapple would be +4
(+3 BAB, +5 Str, -4 Size)


Both would be +9 melee (+1 size mod)


Construct traits


Lifeclasp


40 ft. (8 squares)


Grapple is -10
(+1 BAB, -3 Str, -8 size)

I'd just give it a Grapple bonus in its drain ability. +4 grapple bonuses are standard for particularly grapply creatures.


Bite +0 melee (1d2-3 plus drain)

(+1 BAB, +2 size, -3 Str)


Soul Effigy


271 hp

(42 x 5.5 + 40)


30 ft. (6 squares)


31 BAB + 15 Str - 2 size = +44 melee


Soul Assimilation would best be placed as an attack I think.

Construct traits in special qualities.


Huh. Didn't think anyone used this name before... Thank you for correcting the copypasta and typos. I'll go make it so that they cannot actually destroy a soul... yet...

The main reason he would blow up his constructs would be to reforge Myrron or Hellfrills (New monster I put up while you were PEACHing) that have low HD, into more powerful creatures granted from higher level invocations.

Also, may I note that not all of the hellsteel covers the opponent. There is a spash factor going on there... not all of it sticks. Also, it's incredibly dense; it's an indestructible metal harder than adamantine. (Note: The metal itself is indestructible, but it it's possible to bend it. This allows for the destruction of the constructs, as well as the DR.) I'm going to add this in once I make the fluff for the abilities, but the fluff is that they take restless souls out of the planes with the ability. These souls, through the fire, are bound together into a mesh of powerful metal. This metal, once cooled, turns into a solid object that cannot be unmade or reforged under normal circumstances. When it is shaped while it is still molten, sufficient power enough to bind the souls into a shape, such as through the invocations, can make them into a construct or other form. As I said, I'll add this in with the fluff (Adding in on the next edit), but that's what it is right now.

Lastly, soul effigy is not too overpowered; I believe that it is CR 18-ish. I based it off the greater stone golem, CR 16. I had it give up it's breath weapon, and gave it +4 strength, +3 dex. About even. And then the soul assimilation added about +2CR, by my guesstimate.

[Cidolfas]

Sculptor of the Damned - Marshal of the Eternal Army makes you a construct at 5th level in the PrC? For balance reasons it generally makes sense to have an type changes occur late in the PrC, generally at the last level. Also, does this impact aging or the like? Also, please add a column for spellcasting so it clear that they get that from just looking at the table.

Sorry for the lateness in this reply. The lack of the spellcasting part of the table was a formatting error on my part in making the table. It was intended to be in there and for some reason my computer gives me an error message every time I try and edit it. So I'll try again later.

As for the placement of Marshal of the Eternal Army, I agree that the standard model is normally to have it be the capstone, but as it stands the abilities afterwards don't really make sense for a living person. Sand Man was based off of the swarmshifter template from Libris Mortis, which can only be taken by undead. Having a living being burst into a cloud of dust didn't make sense, so I decided to put it at level 5 to pave the way for The Bone Collector, which is a better fit for a capstone in my opinion because it gives you a way to cheat death in a Tier 1 manner (which the class is supposed to fit, since it was modelled after the Tome series).

Plus, Marshal of the Eternal Army also makes you stop aging and erases any previous penalties you may have.

[Glimbur]

And the experience bonus is probably going to be removed. I know that levels 2-4 don't really give the reaper much beyond some more hit points and so accelerating them through that seems harmless, but I can see someone using it to get extra class levels. Of course, the rate of reaper recruit is ultimately up to the DM, so if he or she believes that the reaper is being abused, they can create a drought of recruits.

There are things to do with experience besides use it to level up. Things like crafting magical items and casting powerful magic spells.

[Fable Wright]

Internet is going now, so I'll just post it quick: Although I did not finish the fluff, what do people think of it (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9384042&postcount=3)?

[The Vorpal Tribble]

I had absolutely all of this responded to, push submit, browser freezes, blue screen of death. I swear I'm going to vivisect my PC...


Peach for VT:

Dissection: Frankly, you are giving them alot with this ability the second they get it; I can forsee a rogue getting a one level dip in this class, and then loading up on special powers.
Good point and wounding happens at 3rd, keen at 5th.


Vivisection: May want some notes on the details, here.
Details to sate any appetite added.


One last thing I'd like to mention is: What do you mean that it "Increases the number of times per day you can use this ability"? Does it mean that they can use that particular spell-like ability more often, or do they have a cap on the total number of powers they can possess.
They can use any specific spell-like ability up to 3/day. Say they vivisect a gnome and learn speak with animals. He gets it 1/day. He gets a 2nd, then a 3rd gnome. Each gnome lets him do it an additional time per day. However, the cap is at 3/day. Gno matter how many more gnomes go under his gnife, he can still only do it 3/day.


Also, what happens if the creature has spellcasting power that it gains from racial abilities? Like dragons or mind flayers. Do they gain the ability to use some of those spells as SLAs, or does their vivisection have no effect on that, or what?
See the text again. Added painful details.


Obsessive concentration: I like the ability, it ties well into the fluff, but what do you mean, "He gains a +10 bonus to Concentration checks to avoid being distracted.
Elaborated. Basically many abilities require concentration, such as a spell or power, bardic music, etc. If you are damaged, loud noises nearby, caught in a swarm, you have to make concentration checks. For damage, you have to make a DC of 10 + damage dealt to maintain the spell.


I would consider lowering it to +5 at first level, possibly an additional +5 at 5th level. Likewise, with the bonus against fear, I would consider lowering that to a +5, possibly an extra bonus later on.
Makes sense.


For the 'focused study' ability, I really like this feature. I only have one question- of they specify a mage, manifester, etc. as their chosen focus, what qualifies as the "Same type of creature" for the purposes of the beings who did not gain the penalty or the bonus. Is it all humanoids? Or what?
Basically as it is divided in Favored Enemy. If you are focusing on hobgoblins they get the bonus, goblinoids get no penalty or bonus, and everything else takes a penalty.


One last question- how long does it take to change focus after the 24 hours? I'm asking this in case the monstrumologist wants to change the specialty in combat- which could be very useful, depending on the circumstances.
Whatever the specifics are for all 1/day abilities mentioned in D&D. Basically 24 hours after you chose your last focus. When do you get your first focus? The moment you level up to gain it.


Also- Secret piercer- I like the ability, but a permanent true seeing effect pretty much neuters all hidden surprises a DM might want to throw at a party. At 14th level, they get immunity to illusions, the ability to remain unsurprised by invisibility or other things, etc.. I would really consider dropping that "continuous" thing. I'd personally recommend having it so that it's at will, and lasts as long as the monstrumologist concentrates.
I don't think it neuters at all or really overpowers, but I like the fluff of him having to concentrate and making more use of his Obsessive Concentration power so I'll change it.


Appreciate it!

[Demons_eye]

I had an idea for a drunken master that drinks a ghost in a bottle and gains ghost like ability's but then you had to post that VT :smallyuk:, thinking up something else.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

I had an idea for a drunken master that drinks a ghost in a bottle and gains ghost like ability's but then you had to post that VT :smallyuk:, thinking up something else.
That's way different, and funny as hades :smallbiggrin:

Do it!

Edit: You can't even dissect a ghost... or with a ghost-touched scalpel could you? Hmmmmmm...

[Fable Wright]

I had absolutely all of this responded to, push submit, browser freezes, blue screen of death. I swear I'm going to vivisect my PC...

Ouch. :smallfrown:


They can use any specific spell-like ability up to 3/day. Say they vivisect a gnome and learn speak with animals. He gets it 1/day. He gets a 2nd, then a 3rd gnome. Each gnome lets him do it an additional time per day. However, the cap is at 3/day. Gno matter how many more gnomes go under his gnife, he can still only do it 3/day.

So... is there any limit to the number of different SLAs you can have?



Basically as it is divided in Favored Enemy. If you are focusing on hobgoblins they get the bonus, goblinoids get no penalty or bonus, and everything else takes a penalty.

That didn't answer the question. I choose Mage as my focus group. Wht is the group I don't get a bonus or penalty on?



Whatever the specifics are for all 1/day abilities mentioned in D&D. Basically 24 hours after you chose your last focus. When do you get your first focus? The moment you level up to gain it.

No. You say "At any point after 24 hours, you may change the group." A monstrumologist is getting killed by a grue. They, in combat, specify that they want to shift focus. By the wording of this ability, they can do so as long as it's been over 24 hours since the last change. There is no universal action time for this; how long does it take?


I don't think it neuters at all or really overpowers, but I like the fluff of him having to concentrate and making more use of his Obsessive Concentration power so I'll change it.
Fair enough.



Appreciate it!
No problem. :smallbiggrin:

[MoleMage]

Does a ghost have organs? You could probably take one apart with a ghost-touch scalpel, but would you really learn anything? Probably they have ghostly organs of the creature they were before all ghosty.

Anyone have anything to say about the Mental Reaper? Who would like to see Madman stat'd out?

[Magicyop]

Ditto for if anyone has anything to say about my Nightbeast... As I said earlier I am relatively new to homebrewing, but please be completely honest. If you have any picture suggestions, that too would be great.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

For Magicyop
While very flavorful I think the class is just a bit weak. Continued levels of a Shadowcaster I think could give it the needed boost.


Special: Must undergo a complex ritual taking 48 hours in a place of complete darkness. If any light gets in at any time, you must start the ritual over. Must be evil.
Evil would be under it's own heading like so.

Alignment: Any Evil


The Nightbeast's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Intimidate (CHA), Hide (DEX), Move Silently (DEX), Bluff (CHA), Knowledge(any) (INT).
Skills are alphabetized.


Sightless (ex):
Cool ability. I'd make mention that they are now immune to gaze attacks.


Teeth In The Night: Your aura is home to many indistinct creatures of the night. These attack anything in your aura, dealing 1 damage per turn. You may opt to not attack certain things. You may take this ability more than once, increasing the damage by 1 each time.
Ooh, make it like a swarm so that you also have to make a concentrate check to cast spells.

Here's the standard formula:
Distraction (Ex): Any living creature vulnerable to a swarm’s damage that begins its turn with a swarm in its square is nauseated for 1 round; a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 swarm’s HD + swarm’s Con modifier; the exact DC is given in a swarm’s description) negates the effect. Spellcasting or concentrating on spells within the area of a swarm requires a Concentration check (DC 20 + spell level). Using skills that involve patience and concentration requires a DC 20 Concentration check.

I'd just make the save DC 10 + half your class level + your chosen modifier.


Tainted Transportation: Shadow has no form, no substance. For 1 min. per point of charisma modifier per day, you may gain one movement speed of your choosing at 50 ft.
How about rephrasing it like this:

'Once per day, for a number of minutes equal to your charisma-modifier, you may increase 1 movement speed of your choosing to 50 feet. '



Everywhere in the Darkness (su):
Take a look at the Shadowbody (http://dndsrd.net/psionicPowersQtoW.html#shadow-body) power.


Death of Light:
I like this. Maybe say at 10th level its not just a certain object, but an area of up to 10 feet that remains in permanent darkness.

Or maybe a 'Dark Sketch' ability where you can 'paint' shadows. That way you could say make ladder going up to a place, or a hole in the wall. You can then paint on on the opposite side, allowing you to pass between them.

Also kind of expected an Eclipse type ability. Maybe make it a weakened version of the epic spell (http://dndsrd.net/epicSpells.html#eclipse).

All in all I think it's a flavorful class, but it just seems to lack that extra little bit of spice.

For DMOfDarkness


So... is there any limit to the number of different SLAs you can have?
None. Just a limit to how many per day. I think its balanced by the fact that the more powerful the SLA the more powerful the creature you have to subdue and render helpless.


That didn't answer the question. I choose Mage as my focus group. Wht is the group I don't get a bonus or penalty on?
Elaborated. Mages don't have an associated being. Bonus for mage, penalty to everything else.


No. You say "At any point after 24 hours, you may change the group." A monstrumologist is getting killed by a grue. They, in combat, specify that they want to shift focus. By the wording of this ability, they can do so as long as it's been over 24 hours since the last change. There is no universal action time for this; how long does it take?
I'm saying an hour. Enough time to get your mind off your current one, and start remembering all the figgled details of the other's anatomy.




Does a ghost have organs? You could probably take one apart with a ghost-touch scalpel, but would you really learn anything? Probably they have ghostly organs of the creature they were before all ghosty.
I have no idea if they have organs or not. There is a feat though that lets you sneak attack even the undead, so technically you might be able to get something out of it.


Am going through entries by those requested at random.

[Zom B]

The more I think about it, the more I think I'm not too happy with the way the reaper works. I'm thinking of turning it into something a bit more literal, but after posting it I noticed the similarly-named Mental Reaper, and am now wondering about putting up something entirely different.

[Magicyop]

For Magicyop

While very flavorful I think the class is just a bit weak. Continued levels of a Shadowcaster I think could give it the needed boost.


Evil would be under it's own heading like so.

Alignment: Any Evil

Thanks, I'll change that!



Skills are alphabetized.

Ah, thanks.


Cool ability. I'd make mention that they are now immune to gaze attacks.
Good idea! I'll change that.



Ooh, make it like a swarm so that you also have to make a concentrate check to cast spells.

Here's the standard formula:
Distraction (Ex): Any living creature vulnerable to a swarm’s damage that begins its turn with a swarm in its square is nauseated for 1 round; a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 swarm’s HD + swarm’s Con modifier; the exact DC is given in a swarm’s description) negates the effect. Spellcasting or concentrating on spells within the area of a swarm requires a Concentration check (DC 20 + spell level). Using skills that involve patience and concentration requires a DC 20 Concentration check.

I'd just make the save DC 10 + half your class level + your chosen modifier.

Oh, perfect! Thank you very much.



How about rephrasing it like this:

'Once per day, for a number of minutes equal to your charisma-modifier, you may increase 1 movement speed of your choosing to 50 feet. '


Take a look at the Shadowbody (http://dndsrd.net/psionicPowersQtoW.html#shadow-body) power.
Ah, that will work well. I'll somehow adapt it to be a version of the Shadow Body power then.


I like this. Maybe say at 10th level its not just a certain object, but an area of up to 10 feet that remains in permanent darkness.

Or maybe a 'Dark Sketch' ability where you can 'paint' shadows. That way you could say make ladder going up to a place, or a hole in the wall. You can then paint on on the opposite side, allowing you to pass between them.
That might be cool. Would add some luster to the somewhat lackluster transformation into shadow at 10th level.


Also kind of expected an Eclipse type ability. Maybe make it a weakened version of the epic spell (http://dndsrd.net/epicSpells.html#eclipse).

That's what I was trying to do with:


Hour of Supreme Shadow(requires Death of Light): You may block one light of your choosing, despite its level of power. This stops the light from hitting an area of radius 100 ft. * your charisma modifier. This remains for 10 minutes per point of charisma modifier. You may do this 1/day. You may even affect the sun. If blocking the light leaves you in darkness, your shadow specialist bonuses apply.

I intended that to mainly be for use on the sun. You can only get it as your midnight ability at 9th level. Should I make it more powerful, or specify for use on the sun?




Thank you very much for the critique. I will try to add that luster and 'oomph' to turn it into a better class.

EDIT: What do you mean shadowcaster? Is that one of the weird Tome of Magic classes?

[BladeofOblivion]

Now that there are a few pacts up, what do people think of the Faustian Knight? I plan to include 20-30 pacts in the finished product, but I intend to keep them at that rough power level.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

EDIT: What do you mean shadowcaster? Is that one of the weird Tome of Magic classes?
D'oh, totally passed by the mention of it affecting the sun. Good stuff.

And yeah, Shadowcasters can do some pretty oddball things with the lack of light.

[Golden-Esque]

Now that there are a few pacts up, what do people think of the Faustian Knight? I plan to include 20-30 pacts in the finished product, but I intend to keep them at that rough power level.

I haven't taken a lot at it yet, but 20-30 sounds like a bit of overkill. You might want to cut that number down a little bit .... :O

[BladeofOblivion]

I haven't taken a lot at it yet, but 20-30 sounds like a bit of overkill. You might want to cut that number down a little bit .... :O

You can only take one per level. They are like Invocations, but with a cost.

[MoleMage]

Yeah, and you've only got 10 levels. 20 should probably be your high end; so long as there's a good amount of variety. I've not looked at it either, but for example the Core prestige class Heirophant only has 9 options for 5 levels. Archmage only has 7 for 5. Loremaster 10 for 5. Having three times as many options as you can pick is still slightly overkill. Aim for between 1.5 and 2x.

[BladeofOblivion]

Yeah, and you've only got 10 levels. 20 should probably be your high end; so long as there's a good amount of variety. I've not looked at it either, but for example the Core prestige class Heirophant only has 9 options for 5 levels. Archmage only has 7 for 5. Loremaster 10 for 5. Having three times as many options as you can pick is still slightly overkill. Aim for between 1.5 and 2x.

So 15 to 20? I'm almost at that point already. That gives me more time to work on the more strange parts of the class, like the Soul Market.

[JoshuaZ]

I'm running into a similar issue with my Dancer of the Threshold class (I'll try to post a decent draft by Sunday). They learn one new Dance at each level and right now I've got 24 dances (unfortunately, I've been thinking on and off about this PrC for a while so I've had lots of ideas for what they might be able to do). I'll probably post them all and then see which people think should be removed.

[Golden-Esque]

You can only take one per level. They are like Invocations, but with a cost.

Oh. Change the name then. "Pact" implies Binder vestiges. You threw me off :P.

[Magicyop]

How do you guys find the pictures for your classes? I couldn't find any free-to-use photos using google. Is there some database that you favor, or something? Your help is much appreciated, thank you. :smallsmile:

[The Vorpal Tribble]

How do you guys find the pictures for your classes? I couldn't find any free-to-use photos using google. Is there some database that you favor, or something? Your help is much appreciated, thank you. :smallsmile:
DeviantArt is my go to place. Especially the 'photo-manipulation' category.

In fact, meant to look for you a pic. Let's see here...

Possibles as I find them:
http://gabrieldevue.deviantart.com/art/Creation-of-fear-3929218
http://extranticeprints.deviantart.com/art/Twilight-creature-87406724
http://eyelessentity.deviantart.com/art/Shadow-Shape-123726783
http://aliceindeadland.deviantart.com/art/In-the-Mirror-33230752

[Magicyop]

Ooh, that third one is perfect! Thanks very much! Next time I will remember DeviantArt. Thank you so much for your help, I can't say how grateful I am. :smallbiggrin:

[classy one]

I was thinking of putting in an entry based on FLCL, where the PrC would pull stuff out of it's head using an N.O. Channel (a metaphysical portal made by conflicting emotions/concepts).
It's an idea floating in my head for a while but I'm not sure this is the right theme for it. Maybe a lurk who drains metaphysical essence and mixes it up in her head and uses it to trap outsiders?
The fluff (the important stuff) is already a mess..... I mean who the he'll really what FLCL was all about to begin with?

[BladeofOblivion]

Oh. Change the name then. "Pact" implies Binder vestiges. You threw me off :P.

It's kind of Integral. I could go with "Pact Inferni," but that's a bit of a mouthful.

[Fable Wright]

ErrantX, is it OK if I delete the class and repost it later down the page, next to the invocations?

[BladeofOblivion]

Is it OK if I delete the class and repost it later down the page, next to the invocations?

It should be. Either it's OK, or Cabalist of the Heinous Realms is disqualified...

[unosarta]

It should be. Either it's OK, or Cabalist of the Heinous Realms is disqualified...

I was about to mention that. :smallwink:
I think it also happened last class contest, and it honestly makes no sense that it wouldn't be allowed, and if it weren't, it would be in the contest rules.

[Fable Wright]

Alright, thanks. I deleted it, and am now asking for PEACHES...
Links for the lazy:
Class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9406299&postcount=13)
Invocations (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9406313&postcount=14)
[In completely unrelated white text, I got post number 13 in a contest about darkness. Does anyone see the ominousness/irony, there?]

[Vaynor]

Ok so I'm working on my class and I'm having the hardest time finding a good picture for it. The basic idea for the class is someone who has been possessed by a ghostly spirit of some kind, but has overtaken the possessor and used their power to his advantage. The spirit manifests itself as a ghost-like head protruding from the possessed person's head, connected by some kind of ghost-like energy (like a strand) in between. If anyone has a picture that would work, that would be awesome.

[BladeofOblivion]

Ok, I added a bit more to the Faustian Knight, Including a new Pact Infernus that is possibly some of the worst Nightmare fuel I have ever unleashed upon the world. Worse than Belror's Rude Awakening from the Potpourri Contest. You have been warned. That said, does anyone want to try to PEACH this 95% finished class? All I really need are the last few Pact Inferni and the class skills. The rest is primarily composed as the Soul Market, which goes in the "Adaptation" section, and the sample character.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Name choosing time...


Mortitome Scrivener: Carries a great tome, entitled "Le Libris Mortis," in which is chronicled the life of every living thing that has ever lived, or is currently living. The Mortitome Scrivener uses this tome to see the past and the present, end lives with a stroke of a pen, and rewrite the fate of his opponents.

Choirmaster of the Voiceless: A bard who leads the voices of the dead in song. Surrounded by undead minions and a ghostly chorus, he is the symphonist of souls, and his haunting melodies strip the life from his foes.

Discordant Symphonist: A bard whose unearthly melody channels the Far Realms, tearing apart reality with songs to horrific for mortal ears (or minds) to handle.

Black Sanguinist: A Soulknife variant, who slices his own soul apart, bleeding out the worst aspects of the human soul and turning them into a weapon of questionable morality.

MYSTERY NAME!: An as-of-yet-undetermined class that instills horror and fear...this is the whisper in the dark of night, the figure appearing next to you in a flash of lightning, only to vanish into the darkness once more. The spectral figure revealed as the curtains blow aside...

[Vaynor]

I like Discordant Symphonist.

[JoshuaZ]

Name choosing time...


Mortitome Scrivener
Choirmaster of the Voiceless
Discordant Symphonist
Black Sanguinist
*MYSTERY NAME!*

Choirmaster of the Voiceless sounds cool.

Hmm, so there will be two musical themed PrCs in this context. Should be interesting...

[Divayth Fyr]

Black Sanguinist - if only because it reminds me of vampires, blood magic and the like :smalltongue:

[unosarta]

Name choosing time...


Mortitome Scrivener
Choirmaster of the Voiceless
Discordant Symphonist
Black Sanguinist
*MYSTERY NAME!*

I think it would really depend on the class theme. It appears to be a dark and/or evil bard, so something like "Symphonist of the Black Dawn" would be interesting, depending, again, on the theme. That name seems to evoke the image of a silent violinist standing on a huge hill, overlooking her army of thousands upon thousands of undead, who slowly sway in turn with the music, as a giant black sun rises over the horizon. :smallbiggrin:

I wish I was an adequate artist so I could actually put that into a drawing. :smallfrown:

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

I think it would really depend on the class theme. It appears to be a dark and/or evil bard, so something like "Symphonist of the Black Dawn" would be interesting, depending, again, on the theme. That name seems to evoke the image of a silent violinist standing on a huge hill, overlooking her army of thousands upon thousands of undead, who slowly sway in turn with the music, as a giant black sun rises over the horizon. :smallbiggrin:

I wish I was an adequate artist so I could actually put that into a drawing. :smallfrown:

They all have different themes, actually. :smallbiggrin:

[unosarta]

They all have different themes, actually. :smallbiggrin:

Hm. Well, I honestly have no idea how to deal with the name problem unless I can see the class, which is fairly redundant. :smallsigh:

Can you give a short(ish) overview of the idea or theme of the class? I guess you could use any of the above names, but I am kind of intrigued as to what my name would be for a concept as compared to others'. :smallamused:

[DragoonWraith]

My thoughts so far are basically things that only make sense as NPCs; they'd make awesome BBEGs or Dragons, but not heroes, or even villainous PCs - the effects would have to be too subtle and gradual to be useful to a PC... meh.

Anyway, the idea was going off of the oft-repeated line "All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." - a class that slowly leeches the motivation from those around it, leading to apathy and to good men doing nothing, freeing the way for evil. It sounds more like a Devil than a Prestige Class, though. It'd make a pretty sweet monster but a lame PC, I think.


EDIT: As I wrote this, I had another idea. I think Vaynor will like it especially. Likely image to go with it:
http://www.clivebarker.info/carrionl7.jpg

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Hm. Well, I honestly have no idea how to deal with the name problem unless I can see the class, which is fairly redundant. :smallsigh:

Can you give a short(ish) overview of the idea or theme of the class? I guess you could use any of the above names, but I am kind of intrigued as to what my name would be for a concept as compared to others'. :smallamused:

Sure.

Name choosing time...


Mortitome Scrivener: Carries a great tome, entitled "Le Libris Mortis," in which is chronicled the life of every living thing that has ever lived, or is currently living. The Mortitome Scrivener uses this tome to see the past and the present, end lives with a stroke of a pen, and rewrite the fate of his opponents.

Choirmaster of the Voiceless: A bard who leads the voices of the dead in song. Surrounded by undead minions and a ghostly chorus, he is the symphonist of souls, and his haunting melodies strip the life from his foes.

Discordant Symphonist: A bard whose unearthly melody channels the Far Realms, tearing apart reality with songs to horrific for mortal ears (or minds) to handle.

Black Sanguinist: A Soulknife variant, who slices his own soul apart, bleeding out the worst aspects of the human soul and turning them into a weapon of questionable morality.

MYSTERY NAME!: An as-of-yet-undetermined class that instills horror and fear...this is the whisper in the dark of night, the figure appearing next to you in a flash of lightning, only to vanish into the darkness once more. The spectral figure revealed as the curtains blow aside...



EDIT: As I wrote this, I had another idea. I think Vaynor will like it especially. Likely image to go with it:
http://www.clivebarker.info/carrionl7.jpg

Christopher Carrion? I approve. :smallbiggrin:

[MoleMage]

How do you know if it's okay to use a picture from deviantart? Do they default to okay to use if you can see them or what's up with that?

[Fable Wright]

My opinions:


Mortitome Scrivener: Carries a great tome, entitled "Le Libris Mortis," in which is chronicled the life of every living thing that has ever lived, or is currently living. The Mortitome Scrivener uses this tome to see the past and the present, end lives with a stroke of a pen, and rewrite the fate of his opponents.
Deathnote meets Sylvan Scribe.


Choirmaster of the Voiceless: A bard who leads the voices of the dead in song. Surrounded by undead minions and a ghostly chorus, he is the symphonist of souls, and his haunting melodies strip the life from his foes.

Very cool. I like it.


Discordant Symphonist: A bard whose unearthly melody channels the Far Realms, tearing apart reality with songs to horrific for mortal ears (or minds) to handle.

Kinda cool, but Choirmaster is better.


Black Sanguinist: A Soulknife variant, who slices his own soul apart, bleeding out the worst aspects of the human soul and turning them into a weapon of questionable morality.

Meh.


MYSTERY NAME!: An as-of-yet-undetermined class that instills horror and fear...this is the whisper in the dark of night, the figure appearing next to you in a flash of lightning, only to vanish into the darkness once more. The spectral figure revealed as the curtains blow aside...
...Cool-ish, but I'd go with Choirmaster.

[MoleMage]

Agree with DM, choirmaster.

[unosarta]

Sure.

Name choosing time...
:smallbiggrin:


Mortitome Scrivener: Carries a great tome, entitled "Le Libris Mortis," in which is chronicled the life of every living thing that has ever lived, or is currently living. The Mortitome Scrivener uses this tome to see the past and the present, end lives with a stroke of a pen, and rewrite the fate of his opponents.
I hate to say this, but Deathnote, or any stereotypical necromancer. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deathnote) This sounds quite frankly boring, plus the idea that they hold a book full of every single living creatures' name is quite hard to handle for me, just thinking of the possibilities. Honestly, that breaks a lot of realism (as much as truly can be broken in a fantasy game), considering that if they were really a scholar, they would simply spend most of their time discovering or reading the book. Why would they adventure? They can kill anyone, from anywhere.


Choirmaster of the Voiceless: A bard who leads the voices of the dead in song. Surrounded by undead minions and a ghostly chorus, he is the symphonist of souls, and his haunting melodies strip the life from his foes.
I like this idea. The possibilities, the ideas... they are pretty sweet. It is a not very often done idea (and the only thing that sounds close to this is from WoW, so... :smallconfused:). The image sounds incredibly sinister, and if they could get their ghosts to possess others, and then rape their souls, while they stole their very thoughts and actions... :smallbiggrin:


Discordant Symphonist: A bard whose unearthly melody channels the Far Realms, tearing apart reality with songs to horrific for mortal ears (or minds) to handle.
This is another interesting concept. Actually, after consideration of the name itself, it appears to be a partial contradiction. Discordant is chaotic or unformed, and symphonies are not chaotic in the least, and the amount of careful planning required is insane, especially for the better ones... but it also does give another great image, of a bard, singing a strange hypnotic song, as his young assistant scribbles down the notes of the song, even as his ears bleed.


Black Sanguinist: A Soulknife variant, who slices his own soul apart, bleeding out the worst aspects of the human soul and turning them into a weapon of questionable morality.
Meh. There is already a soulknife class up, and for me personally, it makes it really hard to vote at the end of the contest, because often times the classes are similar enough that it makes me hesitant to vote for either. Also, that sort of class would require a lot of work in order to bring up the power level from that of the Soulknife. :smallconfused:


MYSTERY NAME!: An as-of-yet-undetermined class that instills horror and fear...this is the whisper in the dark of night, the figure appearing next to you in a flash of lightning, only to vanish into the darkness once more. The spectral figure revealed as the curtains blow aside...
Meh. Honestly, doesn't smack as much of evil to me, even compared to first name choice, which didn't feel very evil to me. Compared to the Discordant Symphonist and the Choirmaster of the Voiceless...? I don't think so.

Although, that might be the inner bard lover in me speaking, but the Discordant Symphonist and the Choirmaster of the Voiceless seem like the most interesting concepts to me personally.



Christopher Carrion? I approve. :smallbiggrin:
YES. :smallcool:

Abarat definitely needs to be a D&D setting. :smalltongue:

[Edit]: Damn, ninja'd twice. At least my reasoning was longer, I guess... :smalltongue:

[Golden-Esque]

It's kind of Integral. I could go with "Pact Inferni," but that's a bit of a mouthful.

Isn't your class based on the Nine Hells? Why not call it Devil's Deal or Deal with a Devil instead of pact? Both of those are perfectly acceptable terms that you can use without confusing people such as myself.

Covenant and Contract are good ones too. I especially like covenant, given its strong religious implications.

[Vaynor]

EDIT: As I wrote this, I had another idea. I think Vaynor will like it especially. Likely image to go with it:
http://www.clivebarker.info/carrionl7.jpg

That. Would. Be. Awesome. I am jealous I didn't think of it first.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c83/Vaynor/Carrion1.gif

Chris says hello.

[DragoonWraith]

That's awesome.

I'm not going to make Christopher Carrion, per se - I do want to have some originality. But it will be a class such that, were I to stat up Christopher Carrion in D&D, I'd probably use levels in this class.

[unosarta]

That. Would. Be. Awesome. I am jealous I didn't think of it first.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c83/Vaynor/Carrion1.gif

Chris says hello.

That is both adorable and highly disturbing at the same time. :smalleek:

[Golden-Esque]

I love the Black Sanguinist, Djinn, but I don't know if you want to use that since I'm pretty sure there's definitely one, perhaps two, Soulknife classes in this contest. Still, you shouldn't let a little thing like that deter you from one of your awesome class ideas, and I think of the lot, this one has the best name, making it the one I am most interested on hearing you expand on.

[MoleMage]

I can vouch that there is at least one (seeing as I made it): the Mental Reaper, a Soulknife who went insane at the image of Death (or a hellish afterlife) and has a lot of abilities dealing with attacking his opponents psyche or avoiding death/Death/afterlife.

The Black Sanguinist would deal with his own soul instead; there's a lot of room for differentiation.

[DragoonWraith]

Personally, I do like the idea behind the Black Sanguinist, but honestly almost wish you'd use anything other than Soulknife for the base. Take another class that does something more interesting than "I has a magic sword" and give it "I has a soul-tearing blood-dripping magic sword of evul" as a class feature of the PrC.

[unosarta]

I can vouch that there is at least one (seeing as I made it): the Mental Reaper, a Soulknife who went insane at the image of Death (or a hellish afterlife) and has a lot of abilities dealing with attacking his opponents psyche or avoiding death/Death/afterlife.

The Black Sanguinist would deal with his own soul instead; there's a lot of room for differentiation.

But not quite enough that I would feel comfortable making it for a contest like this. For an individual thread? It sounds amazing. Of course, that is personal opinion.

Also, I just realized why Abarat is so awesome; the only parts in the real world are in my home state. :smallbiggrin:

[Vaynor]

That is both adorable and highly disturbing at the same time. :smalleek:

That's the idea. :smallbiggrin:


That's awesome.

I'm not going to make Christopher Carrion, per se - I do want to have some originality. But it will be a class such that, were I to stat up Christopher Carrion in D&D, I'd probably use levels in this class.

Kind of like the Nightmare Spinner, but more Lord of Midnight-y? :smallwink:

[DragoonWraith]

I forgot about the Nightmare Spinner, so I'd have to check, but I'm not sure I'm going with a spellcasting PrC here.

[unosarta]

That's the idea. :smallbiggrin:

You cheeky devil, you. :smallbiggrin:

[Vaynor]

I forgot about the Nightmare Spinner, so I'd have to check, but I'm not sure I'm going with a spellcasting PrC here.

I was going to ask about that. Chris "casts" some "spells" in the books, but I'm not sure if those could be contained in a class feature. Although, I'm not sure what other classes would go into this, unless it's more of a generic nightmare using thing.

[DragoonWraith]

I have... thoughts. They are not fully fleshed out.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

I like the Choirmaster of the Voiceless. Brings to mind one of the ways priests of 'The Gurgling God' deity I wrote communicate with their deity. Slitting the throats of their victims and modulating the death rattle.

Added Dim Mak as a 9th level ability of the Monstrumologist but still can't quite piece together a worthwhile capstone. Just gonna keep scrolling through everyone else to see what I could make that would kill them :smallwink:

I'll critique anyone that has all the abilities done.

[unosarta]

I'll critique anyone that has all the abilities done.

Critique, please? :smalltongue:

[MoleMage]

I like the Choirmaster of the Voiceless. Brings to mind one of the ways priests of 'The Gurgling God' deity I wrote communicate with their deity. Slitting the throats of their victims and modulating the death rattle.

Added Dim Mak as a 9th level ability of the Monstrumologist but still can't quite piece together a worthwhile capstone. Just gonna keep scrolling through everyone else to see what I could make that would kill them :smallwink:

I'll critique anyone that has all the abilities done.

Mental Reaper is finished up VT. Until some critic critiques it and criticizes something critical.

[Vaynor]

Ok I have two ideas, and I'm not sure which to use. One is my previously posted spirit idea (person gets possessed by a ghost-like spirit but overpowers them and uses the spirits power to their advantage; spirit manifests as a floating ghost-head-thing connected to the character's head, gains special power for the head but loses power for its own body) and the other is a binder/psion class (similar to the first idea, binder attempts to bind a spirit that's too powerful and gets taken over by the spirit (acts as if the vestige was permanently bound), you have to maintain over your body control each day (just like normal for other vestiges) but this one has worse side effects if you fail the check, but you gain psionic abilities and other special powers to make up for it).

Thoughts?

[DragoonWraith]

...my main thought is that the latter would be a very interesting way to take mine... which kind of biases me on the vote.

[Lord_Gareth]

*Sigh* I've been dodging doing work because I hate doing the damn table T_T

I'll have some stuff up soon. Ish.

Gid, get on YIM, ya bastahd!

[Golden-Esque]

*Sigh* I've been dodging doing work because I hate doing the damn table T_T!

I'm just thankful this is a prestige class contest and not a base class contest. Making a table of 20 rows takes so much more time .... T_T

[Hyooz]

My prestige class FINALLY posted. Hopefully the Slender Man isn't too obscure a reference to base a class around, but if you are unfamiliar, I highly recommend Googleing around. Marble Hornets is an especially interesting webseries based around the creature.

All credit for the Harrowed base goes to Lord Gareth, of course.

[Magicyop]

Okay, I made some of the changes you suggested to the Nightbeast, how does it look now? I'm trying to work out how to do a 'painting shadows' ability at level 10 or make the class have that extra bit of pizzazz. I added half spellcaster progression, too (at levels 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10).

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Critique, please? :smalltongue:
I had the whole flippin' thing commented on and then browser died again.

*rewrites in the blood of his ire*

[DragoonWraith]

Am I the only one who doesn't find creating a table tiresome? I really don't think it takes much time or effort at all... Hah, maybe I should start offering to create tables for people.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Cabalist of the Heinous Realms critique

Pact of the First Lord (Ex): Starting at second level, the Cabalist of the Heinous Realms grows in power, able to access the pact of the First Lord, Bel, and bind his Avatar.

Soulbound (Ex):
Strike those. Reverse'em.

Souldbound is a 1st level ability, Pact the 2nd.



He must choose a type of devil, and gains powers associated with that devil depending on his level, as shown in the table below:
Oooh, add a Cerebrillith to the list.



Influence: Belial desperate hates women,
Desperately I'm assuming you mean.

As a side note, I have seen that pic once before, and I do not thank you for the repeat viewing of his fiendish BDSM jockstrap.


Granted Abilities: Glasya gives you the power to change shape, to be more charismatic, to paralyze others with a touch, and to send a gaze of fire.

Devil Princess’ Seduction: You may change your shape as a swift action, assuming the form of any medium or small humanoid.
I know when you take the features of a binded creature that true seeing and similar still see these features because they've become real, but what about this ability?


Final question, do these devils allow you to bind them plus other vestiges? Binding of 'lesser' creatures in the same host just seems like something they'd not care much for.

Then again, fiends are pervs, some may not mind :smallwink:


Am I the only one who doesn't find creating a table tiresome? I really don't think it takes much time or effort at all... Hah, maybe I should start offering to create tables for people.
At first it was hard because I had no idea what the code was for it, but once its shown it's pretty easy.

[ErrantX]

My prestige class FINALLY posted. Hopefully the Slender Man isn't too obscure a reference to base a class around, but if you are unfamiliar, I highly recommend Googleing around. Marble Hornets is an especially interesting webseries based around the creature.

All credit for the Harrowed base goes to Lord Gareth, of course.

I gotta say, this is really, really cool Hyooz. Great flavor to this class. Your abilities aren't overpowering but seem to be pretty well good. I'd consider changing the Shadowmental touch damage away from evil (because they could never harm evil creatures with half of it), instead either doing say... negative energy or acid perhaps? But that's really all I've got. Your fluff for this class is incredibly fun, and I find stuff like the Slender Man to be incredibly creepy and awesome. Makes for great horror campaigns.

-X