Ok... Fallout 1 and 2 [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

The Rose Dragon

2010-09-05, 04:27 PM

Selrahc

2010-09-05, 04:34 PM

Gifted. Take Gifted if you're new to the game.

A lot of character mechanics are derived from traits, but only skills are reduced by Gifted, while the increase in skills due to the increase in traits kind of mitigates this. You will have fewer skill points, but you'll get more than you will probably need in the long run.

Personally, I get high Charisma, high Intelligence and tag Speech, in order to get out of situations without firing a bullet. I also tag Small Arms for when I need to fire a bullet (Energy Weapons are more useful in the long run, but unless you "cheat", you're not gonna get them soon) and Barter because I somehow keep running out of caps.

In Fallout 1 high charisma has almost no mechanical effect whatsoever other than boosting a few skills. Just boost those skills and save the attribute points.

There are maybe 2 dialogues that you can get a bonus option from high charisma. In contrast intelligence affects vast swathes of the game.

The mechanical impact in Fallout 2 is almost the same, but in addition to those negligible effects it also governs how many companions you can take. Plan for that, then pick charisma accordingly.

Barter is nearly useless after the early stages of the game, because you'll be swimming in combat shotguns, assault rifles and other guns which all sell for more money than you'll need.

The Rose Dragon

2010-09-05, 04:39 PM

Barter is nearly useless after the early stages of the game, because you'll be swimming in combat shotguns, assault rifles and other guns which all sell for more money than you'll need.

Were we playing the same game? Because that didn't quite work out for me. Maybe because I was playing a non-combatant (one with Agility 10 and Enclave Power Armor, but still), but I never quite found all these combat shotguns and assault rifles you claim are there. In contrast, I somehow kept needing stimpacks and more bullets, which were also lacking on the battlefields. Anything that saves me money is aces in my book.

Winthur

2010-09-05, 04:40 PM

Actually, high Charisma isn't that much of a buff, and if you're really into making a powerful build, you can put it at 1 (or 2 with Gifted), because in F1, it affects about nothing (maybe except some marginable choices), with the thing really mattering being a Speech check. In F2, you recruit NPCs based on Charisma score/2. High Intelligence is great to have.

Gifted is great, I agree, but I do manage to have some success and fun without it, and there are a few not-so-obvious approaches that can pwn as well.

But Fallout isn't really a game you want to go into with a power gamer approach... I don't, but it's interesting to know the game's limitations, while most of the time you want to play various wild choices.

In F1, Barter is powerful, in F2, less so. My preferred tagset with Gifted is an early game weapon skill like Small Guns/Unarmed/Melee Weapons, then a late-game like Big Guns or Energy Weapons (Energy Weapons being the king of F1), and Speech. If I don't have Gifted, it's easier to free up the Small Guns slot.

Steal is a fun skill if you want to gain some money and are not fond of too much save/load.

You probably won't want Traps, it's marginal at best. Throwing doesn't do a lot due to the scarcity of grenades (and all the other thrown weapons suck), Science and Repair are useful but can be learned through books. Outdoorsman can save you in a dire situation. So can Sneak, to my surprise.

High Luck is fun, because it unlocks a few special opportunties and allows you to see more Special Random Encounters.

In F2, you will probably want to try out Unarmed due to the fun mini-quests in New Reno and San Francisco where the Unarmed skill is much appreciated. You don't use any ammo on it, too, until you get the mighty Power Fist and later its Advanced successor, which own. Of course, you will have to deal your justice up close and personal.

Ozymandias

2010-09-05, 04:41 PM

Small Guns are much, much more versatile (and, in Fallout 2, powerful) than the other two choices. Late-mid game you can branch out to either Energy or Big Guns but Gauss bullets to the eye is always the most efficient way to kill things. I'd also get speech to around 100, and lockpick to maybe 70-90 or so. In 2, you may want to get some points in repair for a couple of quests, but it's not necessary. Steal is useful but only insofar as it prevents savescumming a bit.

You can't go wrong with 10 Agility, and high (8-9) Intelligence is great too. Luck is surprisingly useful. Gifted is the best trait, by far - Good Natured is also pretty good, as are Small Frame and Fast Shot (although I wouldn't recommend it on a first playthrough).

SparkMandriller

2010-09-05, 04:45 PM

A lot of character mechanics are derived from traits, but only skills are reduced by Gifted, while the increase in skills due to the increase in traits kind of mitigates this. You will have fewer skill points, but you'll get more than you will probably need in the long run.

This. If you really want skills you can just use some of the free points from Gifted to boost your Intelligence anyway. Gifted is crazy good.

chiasaur11

2010-09-05, 04:46 PM

High int, high agility and tolerable everything should do you first game.

You'll also want speech, small guns, and one late game weapon as mentioned above, probably.

Barter?

Even if it's low, in the first game you get more combat armors to seel than you'll need. And the best guns can be found in random encounters or looted off corpses.

Oh, and high luck means more entertaining special encounters, probably. Just a heads up.

Winthur

2010-09-05, 04:46 PM

You can't go wrong with 10 Agility, and high (8-9) Intelligence is great too. Luck is surprisingly useful. Gifted is the best trait, by far - Good Natured is also pretty good, as are Small Frame and Fast Shot (although I wouldn't recommend it on a first playthrough).

Fast Shot is generally what you want when you plan on using Burst fire a lot. Protip: You can't aim with Big Guns anyway.

Small Frame, due to the nature of the companions in F1 (they have unlimited carrying capacity) and with the add-on of a car in F2 (it has a lot of room) means that it's a +1 AG well worth the price.

I'd also say Finesse is a great trait.

And if you are out of ideas for a trait, Bloody Mess is always nice. xD

Driderman

2010-09-05, 04:58 PM

Fallout 1 is pretty run-of-the-mill post-apocalyptic: Make sure you have the combat skills to keep yourself alive and pad it with some sort of useful support skill, like first aid or lock-picking or such.

Fallout 2 on the other hand, you got a wide range of choices that will all be useful in some way or another, so as long as you don't tag traps, gambling and barter and dump all your stats to max out luck, perception and charisma, you'll be fine.

Selrahc

2010-09-05, 05:01 PM

Were we playing the same game? Because that didn't quite work out for me. Maybe because I was playing a non-combatant (one with Agility 10 and Enclave Power Armor, but still), but I never quite found all these combat shotguns and assault rifles you claim are there. In contrast, I somehow kept needing stimpacks and more bullets, which were also lacking on the battlefields. Anything that saves me money is aces in my book.

You seriously didn't find yourself overburdened with stuff? A single enclave patrol for example is going to give you around $100000 worth of gear. And that comes late.. but encounters around New Reno or Vault City or Redding or the NCR will give you a big stack of combat shotguns, flamethrowers and other guns. Fighting the raiders or killing one of the new reno families or attacking the enclave compound or other things will give you far more guns than you'll ever need to sell.

I never did any grinding for levels or gear in Fallout 2, but I would get so many guns just driving around the wastes that I could walk into town and clear anything I wanted out of the local shop for the price of a few unwanted flamethrowers or something.

Philistine

2010-09-05, 05:03 PM

Barter is nearly useless after the early stages of the game, because you'll be swimming in combat shotguns, assault rifles and other guns which all sell for more money than you'll needmost shopkeepers have on hand to buy items from you with.
Fixed that for you. :smallcool:

Luck is good to have either very high (for Sniper or the equivalent melee Perk, Slayer maybe?) or very low (if you're not taking either of those) - a real pump-it-or-dump-it stat.

Other stats depend on what you want to do - except that Charisma always sucks, and Gifted is always ridiculously good.

The classic "Diplosniper" build tags Speech, Small Guns, and Energy Weapons, and stats focus on Perception (for aiming at range), Agility (for Action Points), and Intelligence (for Skill Points), largely ignoring Strength, Endurance, and Charisma. This works very well in FO1 (where firearms are available from the very start of the game), but makes the early going tricky in FO2 (where you start with a Spear, and have to play a little while before you get even a crappy gun).

A Melee Bruiser build OTOH tags one of Melee Weapons or Hand-to-Hand, and then likely Heavy Weapons (since you've got the weight capacity to carry them, and you'll want some kind of ranged option) and... maybe Speech again. Stats focus on Strength (obviously), Agility (if anything you need even more AP than a gunslinger, since you use them to run to your targets as well as for your actual attacks), and Endurance (for HP, so that you can survive the whole "running to your targets" thing). FO2 seems to support a melee approach better - not just because melee is necessary for the early game, but also because there are more cool (and powerful) melee weapons in the second game than in the first.

But note that even the high-Speech Diplomat build doesn't strictly NEED Charisma, as a high Int lets you use Skill Points to make up the difference in your Speech score. There are a limited number of places over the coursse of both games where a straight-up Charisma check determines what replies are available in dialogue, or what the results/rewards you receive for a quest, but overall it's the one stat you really can dump.

Ogremindes

2010-09-05, 06:16 PM

...but makes the early going tricky in FO2 (where you start with a Spear, and have to play a little while before you get even a crappy gun).

It's been a while since I've played, but can't you get the Pipe Gun immediately after reaching the first town after Arroyo? The Temple of Trials isn't all that hard.

Winthur

2010-09-05, 06:58 PM

It's been a while since I've played, but can't you get the Pipe Gun immediately after reaching the first town after Arroyo? The Temple of Trials isn't all that hard.

Screw the Pipe Rifle, there's a 10mm Pistol in the sewers filled with rats.

Cespenar

2010-09-05, 11:38 PM

I tried a unarmed-only character once, and found in my surprise that it was almost as easy as any other gun totin' fella. The only difficult (though fun and full of awesome) part was sneak-killing the field turrets in the exterior of Sierra Army Depot with only leather armor and bare hands.

fknm

2010-09-06, 01:07 AM

What's with all of the hating on Barter? With enough Barter, you can literally break the economy and buy every item from every shopkeeper.

Easiest build for FO1 IMO is Gifted, Small Frame (followers can act as pack mules- they don't react if you pickpocket them to get your stuff back), STR 6 (weapon requirements), LUCK 9 (won't explain the exact reason behind this number due to spoilers, although if you're willing to take advantage of glitches, 8 is better), high AGL, high INT, decent PER, low CHA, low END. Tag Speech, Small Guns, and Lockpick. Use the Tag! perk at level 12 to tag Energy Weapons. Bonus Move, Awareness, and Action Boy are other prime choices for perks.

Avilan the Grey

2010-09-06, 01:09 AM

Okay, so basically in FO1 it seems my favorite build (with tweaks of course) from FO3 is the easiest one to start with; the Diplosniper.

Mid STR
Low CHA, but tag Speech anyway
High AGL
High INT
High LCK

Now basically it boils down to three choices:

1. Male or Female? Does it matter in this game? According to some people on line there is a distinct advantage to play female (in both games).

2. Gifted: Yes. But should I pick Small Frame, Finesse or Fast Shooter? Or something else?
Fast Shooter sounds great, but you can't call shots if you pick that, as far as I understand it?

3. Third skill? After Small Guns and Speech. Energy Weapons? Steal? Sneak? Or something else?

I just did a more or less random guy last night and played around for a few hours re-learning the game (Including googling for the "rainbow effect" and finding a BAT file that fixes it for Vista and 7).
Now for some comments that some people will see as blasphemy :smallwink::

First of all, I must point out that I really like the game despite these faults.

All those that makes fun of FO3 because it's "all brown". You know what? FO1 is even browner.

The chosen top-down angle that you see your character in is a very bad one. I constantly feel like they should either have picked one that is more top-down, since so many walls gets in the way and you hide doors etc just by walking behind them. OR a full 3D view, but of course that wasn't on the table back then for obvious reasons.
Being used to modern games, I fought the urge for the first 1½ hours or so to try to rotate the scene to view it from another angle because I can't really SEE anything.

The interface IS extremely clunky and annoying in almost every way. Thank God it's turn based so I don't have to react quickly. It's like they have gone out of their way to make it bad.

Interplay (and Troika) suffers from "random encounters will murder you" disease. Luckily I remembered that from the first time I played and from the times I have played Arkanum: Save before travel. I got ambushed by rad-scorpions out of the blue and got killed just like that twice before reaching Necropolis.

Maxios

2010-09-06, 01:14 AM

give your guy a high charisma, allow me to elbaorate:

Go down to San francisco in F2. Talk to the brotherhood of steel guy there and get his mission. Go to that enclave base, get the plans. give them to the brotherhood guy, you get a BUNCh of XP. Then go to the shi (or whoever didn't have that rocketship) and give them a copy of the plans for even more xP. Plus in that enclave base, you get free power-armor and energy weapons.

VanBuren

2010-09-06, 01:16 AM

Maxios

2010-09-06, 01:18 AM

VanBuren

2010-09-06, 01:33 AM

True, but what's funner then being Level 5 or higher AT THE START with energy guns and power armor, blowing raiders and radscoropions out of the water? Still, it does make the game a little easier for new players to get the ropes of things.

True, but... I dunno. It's not the sort of thing I'd do on a first playthrough. But to each their own.

Maxios

2010-09-06, 01:34 AM

I did it on one of my later files. I never beat the game. That file was the closet I got. I found Vault 13, but didn't find where I could get that thing you trade for the GECK.

JadedDM

2010-09-06, 01:39 AM

I don't think there's really any difference in gameplay in Fallout 1 if you are male or female. There are events in FO2 where being female can come in handy, though.

The only advice I can give you in FO1 is don't give your character any ability scores of 10. Nine is the highest you should go. It's possible to raise every ability score by one point throughout the game, so giving your character a 10 in anything is a bit of a waste.

I'm playing FO1 right now, actually. Started a new game the other day. I'm going with a melee character, because I always play the 'diplosniper' as you guys call it, and I wanted something different this time.

I rather enjoy hitting rats in the groin with my crowbar.

SparkMandriller

2010-09-06, 02:04 AM

All those that makes fun of FO3 because it's "all brown". You know what? FO1 is even browner.

I thought Fallout 3 was meant to be all green.

Avilan the Grey

2010-09-06, 02:33 AM

I thought Fallout 3 was meant to be all green.

Oh no, the hue in the sky makes everything dusty and brown. I tried Fellout for a while but it makes everything unrealistically bright and beautiful.

Anyway, back to FO1:

How about this for an easy-start character?

Strength - 6 (requirements for small guns)
Perception - 7
Endurance - 2
Charisma - 5
Intelligence - 9
Agility - 9
Luck - 9

Treats - Gifted and ? (Finesse / Small frame / Fast shooter)

Skills - Small Guns, Speech, Steal

Philistine

2010-09-06, 08:38 AM

For FO1, I'd shift some of that CHA to END. I might raid STR for one more point as well, boosting either END or PER - the most you need for any Small Gun (http://www.nma-fallout.com/content.php?page=fo-items-smallguns) in the first game is 5*, you will eventually have a chance to boost each of your stats by 1, and Power Armor will give you a boost to this as well. Or leave STR as-is, but steal one point from AGI and take Small Frame.

* You do need STR 6 for some of the better Energy Weapons (http://www.nma-fallout.com/content.php?page=fo-items-energy), but by the time you start getting those you're also close to both stat boosts and Power Armor.

Avilan the Grey

2010-09-06, 08:45 AM

TheEmerged

2010-09-06, 09:17 AM

Protip. Specify in your hints whether you're talking about F1 or F2 :smallbiggrin:

I've finished F2 over a dozen times, with several different builds. I assure you, you can finish it with a lot of different builds.

F1, however, it's possible to gimp yourself.

Traits: personally, I prefer Gifted and Kamikazee. Small Frame is a good choice as well, although you may find yourself cursing that choice later in the game. Fast Shot I usually recommend against. Early to mid parts of the game it will look overpowered. Late game, you will find that it's difficult to burst down all targets.

Tags: I usually recommend Small Guns (you'll use these most of the game), Speech (you'll use this the entire game), and a third skill to your taste. I usually take lockpicking myself. Plan on taking either Energy Weapons or Big Guns at 12 level with the Tag! perk.

Other skill pointers: if you didn't know this, you can get a little extra experience using first aid & doctor skill on yourself. Later on this will be a trivial issue (the amount doesn't scale to level) but early on every bit helps. Barter is a skill you'll want some ability in but not much; ultimately, you'll get most of what you need/want from looting. Similarly, don't completely neglect Thrown but don't put TOO much in it either (one word: grenades).

Perks: *avoid Swift Learner*. I forget where I read this, but someone actually did the math and apparently even if you started out the game it's not worth it. Educated isn't really worth it either.

fknm

2010-09-06, 10:33 AM

Oh no, the hue in the sky makes everything dusty and brown. I tried Fellout for a while but it makes everything unrealistically bright and beautiful.

Anyway, back to FO1:

How about this for an easy-start character?

Strength - 6 (requirements for small guns)
Perception - 7
Endurance - 2
Charisma - 5
Intelligence - 9
Agility - 9
Luck - 9

Treats - Gifted and ? (Finesse / Small frame / Fast shooter)

Skills - Small Guns, Speech, Steal
You might want to swap the END and CHA scores, then remove one from END and add it to PER.

Odd values of AGL don't give you anything. Reduce that to 8, or bump it to 10. Yes, there are ways of raising every stat over the course of the game, but there are also costs of doing this (and not just monetary costs...), so having a skill other than Luck at 10 isn't THAT bad.

I'd choose Small Frame for second perk. Fast shooter is HORRIBLE- you WILL want to make aimed shots if you've got high luck.

Avilan the Grey

2010-09-06, 11:43 AM

fknm

2010-09-06, 11:45 AM

Looking at this... Maybe this instead?

Strength - 6 (requirements for small guns)
Perception - 8
Endurance - 2
Charisma - 4
Intelligence - 8
Agility - 10
Luck - 8

The reason for the insistence on CHA being higher than END is for RPG reasons.

The alternative is to take luck the other way, to 2 and thereby get a load of points extra. However with an extremely low luck (FO1), how do that impact on skill selection etc.
Without spoiling too much, I will say that you want INT to be an odd number. 7 or 9 is ideal. You should be fine removing a point from PER to add to INT.

CHA really does nothing at all in FO1, aside from opening skill points, so I wouldn't invest so many points into it.

Triaxx

2010-09-06, 02:29 PM

My standard genius sniper build, for F2:

S 6
P 9
E 6
C 2
I 9
A 9
L 6

Gifted and Finesse.

Personally I tag Small Guns, Lockpick and Repair.

Then play a female named Buffy until I get the SMG with some leather armor, and then grab a .44 to refit with a speed loader and use Bonus Rate of Fire to empty half the gun and reload every turn. Drop Finesse for Fast Shot and pick up two Action Boy/Girl's and you can empty the gun on the first turn and every other turn there after.

Gun slinger much? Yes, I am.

Avilan the Grey

2010-09-06, 09:56 PM

I now have a number of ideas. One question still remains though. If I go the other route and completely sacrifices Luck... what happens?

chiasaur11

2010-09-06, 10:04 PM

I now have a number of ideas. One question still remains though. If I go the other route and completely sacrifices Luck... what happens?

Less chance of good things happening (Like finding a crashed alien spaceship with an intact death ray), more chance of bad things happening (like your gun exploding and breaking your arm off.)

fknm

2010-09-06, 10:04 PM

Your chances to get a critical hit will be utter crap, you won't get any of the "special" random encounters, and certain in-game situations will change (won't go to deeply here for fear of spoilers, but a high luck stat can REALLY change certain areas).

Also, with high Luck, it's easy to make money from gambling, but with the time it takes, it's probably not worth it.

Avilan the Grey

2010-09-06, 10:09 PM

ok, thanks everyone. :smallsmile:

deuxhero

2010-09-06, 10:15 PM

Wait! Don't forget the high-res patches (and possibly the fallout 1 children patch if you have a EU version).

Philistine

2010-09-06, 10:58 PM

Actually the STR requirement for shotguns and hunting rifles in FO1 is 6. I learned that playing around last night. And since you get your first hunting rifle (without stealing) in Vault 15...

Edit: Oh and about CHA and END: You mean END 3 CHA 4?

Are you playing with mods? Because, seriously: in a Vanilla game of FO1 there are NO Small Guns that require STR above 5.

Re: the Luck question - without a good Luck score, Sniper (or Slayer) is a lot less impressive. Still good, but not "every shot is a crit" good.

Boosting most stats is just a matter of having the caps to pay for the operation. There's also an in-game recovery time of 1 to 3 weeks; but if you're running with the official patch (v1.1), you're no longer on the clock once you get the water chip back to Vault 13.

fknm

2010-09-06, 11:02 PM

Are you playing with mods? Because, seriously: in a Vanilla game of FO1 there are NO Small Guns that require STR above 5.
Sniper Rifle requires STR 6 in Vanilla. I believe that the Hunting Rifle and Shotgun do as well, but it's been a while since my last playthrough, so I could be wrong.

Boosting most stats is just a matter of having the caps to pay for the operation. There's also an in-game recovery time of 1 to 3 weeks; but if you're running with the official patch (v1.1), you're no longer on the clock once you get the water chip back to Vault 13.
Not entirely true. While they removed the ultimate "game over" timer for the post-waterchip part of the game (a bad decision, IMO, but that's not related), there ARE other things that happen if you're late to certain areas, and it affects the ending.

Ozymandias

2010-09-06, 11:14 PM

I really can't recommend anything but 10 Agility in either game for pretty much any character. I don't even remember there being a way to raise it (other than the Gain Special waste of a perk) in either game, and if there was, I'm sure it came far too late to be useful - the best part of having 10 Agility is not having to take a turn out to reload, or getting an extra step into/out of cover with a 10mm or a deagle or getting three shots from a .44 - having an extra point of SPECIAL for the endgame isn't really worth going through the early game (which is tougher anyway) with a bit of a handicap.

Endurance is basically worthless, except maybe for perk requirements. Grabbing Lifegiver isn't a bad idea, however. But in general it's your armor and your ability to kill the bad guys (or good guys - whomever you're directing your bullets toward) that will keep you alive, not having a small amount of extra HP. You'll get enough HP from levelling up that it doesn't really matter much either way.

Strength at 6 is fine for weapon reqs - the hunting rifle and shotgun are great in FO1, but pistols are generally better in 2, so it's not that much of an issue. Charisma is fine to leave up some for roleplaying; it's useful in Fallout 2 but you can also drug up, although that's a bit of an exploit. I seem to recall some decent perks being tied to it but maybe that was Tactics.

Intelligence you want at between 8 and 10 for almost all characters, I'd say. I always just go for 10 but you can raise it by 1 point in-game and there aren't any dialogues that require 10 int (although some require 9).

I disagree with people saying Luck isn't useful if you're not going for Sniper/Slayer - a lot of the random encounters are quite beneficial (especially in Fallout 1) and the passive crit bonus is very nice. Sniper/Slayer do come much too late to be useful, though.

Avilan the Grey

2010-09-07, 12:55 AM

Are you playing with mods? Because, seriously: in a Vanilla game of FO1 there are NO Small Guns that require STR above 5.

It might have been patched since you played it; I play it vanilla, but with the latest patches and both the shotgun and the hunting rifle had a STR requirement of 6 (I noticed it when I got the "you are not strong enough to handle this weapon efficiently" when using the shotgun).

Cespenar

2010-09-07, 01:31 AM

Avilan the Grey

2010-09-07, 04:28 AM

Another believer of the Agility 10 school? Preach it, brother!

I don't care for agility as such, but the action points it generates... :smallbiggrin:

I really have too much RPG:ing going at once.

In ME2 I will continue my main character (dumped the other three, I tend to do that, start 2-4 different characters and only keep the one(s) that are fun to play) and buy and install the Shadow Broker DLC tonight.

My DA:O game is on hold while playing ME2, but I will buy and install the Witch Hunt DLC today too, and hopefully go back to continue my two favorite characters this weekend.

And tomorrow morning before work I will create my Crit-gunner for Fallout:

STR 6
PER 8
END 3
CHA 4
INT 8
AGL 10
LCK 8

Finesse and Gifted
Small Guns, Speech and Steal

Triaxx

2010-09-07, 07:15 AM

Usually I'd sacrifice a point of STR, CHA, or PER for Agility, because those all had a memory module to push them back up, where agility didn't.

Irbis

2010-09-07, 04:11 PM

And tomorrow morning before work I will create my Crit-gunner for Fallout:

STR 6
PER 8
END 3
CHA 4
INT 8
AGL 10
LCK 8

Finesse and Gifted
Small Guns, Speech and Steal

I'd make STR 5, as you can raise it by 5 points during the game. 6 is waste of one point. Same with AGL 10. Maybe make INT, AGL and LCK all 9?

Steal isn't that good, in F1, barter is far better (seriously, you can trade one stimpack for one stimpack + money, thus cleaning the shop quickly, if you have high enough barter).

Having high science help in many areas, too, though that's FO2 more than FO1.

Avilan the Grey

2010-09-07, 07:33 PM

I'd make STR 5, as you can raise it by 5 points during the game. 6 is waste of one point. Same with AGL 10. Maybe make INT, AGL and LCK all 9?

But the STR requirement for all rifles are 6. And you get the hunting rifle within 30 minutes of play, if you don't drag your feet. I want to be able to utilize the guns 100%.

Trazoi

2010-09-07, 07:48 PM

And tomorrow morning before work I will create my Crit-gunner for Fallout:

STR 6
PER 8
END 3
CHA 4
INT 8
AGL 10
LCK 8

Finesse and Gifted
Small Guns, Speech and Steal
That looks pretty good to me. The Endurance looks a mite low, but it's certainly workable for a sniper who keeps his/her distance. And it's been a while since I've played the game; not sure how much each point makes a difference when playing the game to HP, resistance and regen. My snipers usually had END of 4 anyway, so no big diff.

I seem to remember the rifles having a STR requirement of 5 with only big guns requiring more, but I might be mistaken or that might have changed with a patch.

I also agree with the high agility, even up to AGL 10. All those extra AP makes a big difference!

Irbis

2010-09-08, 05:23 AM

But the STR requirement for all rifles are 6. And you get the hunting rifle within 30 minutes of play, if you don't drag your feet. I want to be able to utilize the guns 100%.

Um... the hunting rifle isn't that great. In fact, it's one of the very low middle tier guns. There are far superior guns in both F1 and F2. You'd be better giving it to Tycho or Ian.

In fact, in F1, with high LCK it is possible to nab one of the very best rifles with very low STR requirement as soon as you find 'used car salesman' special encounter.

One of the kids in Shady Sands (on second screen) has a BB rifle on him - steal it, you'll need the 100x ammo later.

Besides, if you're worried you will be unable to utilize guns before you get Str 6, you can always use Buff (or whatever it was called) to raise your Str for a few days.

Avilan the Grey

2010-09-08, 05:54 AM

Um... the hunting rifle isn't that great. In fact, it's one of the very low middle tier guns. There are far superior guns in both F1 and F2. You'd be better giving it to Tycho or Ian.

In fact, in F1, with high LCK it is possible to nab one of the very best rifles with very low STR requirement as soon as you find 'used car salesman' special encounter.

One of the kids in Shady Sands (on second screen) has a BB rifle on him - steal it, you'll need the 100x ammo later.

Besides, if you're worried you will be unable to utilize guns before you get Str 6, you can always use Buff (or whatever it was called) to raise your Str for a few days.

The hunting rifle, as far as I understand it, is the most accurate weapon you will get until you reach the Hub or Necropolis. And accuracy = good for someone who is built for keeping his or her distance.

MickJay

2010-09-08, 06:08 AM

My favourite gun in Fallout 1 was the .223 pistol, which you can get after completing the quest for Irwin in Hub, you only need to be level 5 or 6 for that. It's strictly superior to even the sniper rifle, at least for short-to-medium distances, it's lighter and needs one less AP to fire. And then there's the Red Ryder Limited Edition BB gun, which in terms of speed & power is the best small gun you can get, the only problem is finding it (and the ammo for it)
And yet my most memorable kill in Fallout 1 was with the 10mm SMG, when a single burst managed to kill off three fully healthy raiders who were spread out across the whole game screen (they were in a distance of about 5, 8 and 12 steps from my character, and the two in the back were exactly at the maximum bullet spread range of the SMG).

All small arms require only 5 str to use, and since one of the memory chips can be used to increase it by one (not to mention power armour bonus), it's not really worthwhile to have it higher than 5 at the start.

Jair Barik

2010-09-08, 06:17 AM

Why has nobody recommended bloody mess? Its good fun and alows you to get the 'best' ending.

Tehnar

2010-09-08, 06:29 AM

Fallout 1 is capped at level 20, keep that in mind. While you get power armor relatively late, Im not convinced its worth it to get your STR higher then 5, unless you are going for a melee build.

Each point of strength you are under you suffer a -20% penalty to your shooting skill. In my experience that doesn't matter much since your primary shooting skill will be likely over 150%.

I'm also torn on the finesse perk. I think its bugged and lowers all of your damage, not only your melee. Thus while the increased critical chance is good, finesse decreases the oomph a bit.

Actually you don't need a high luck to crit often; you just require a very high skill. However luck also modifies what kind of criticals you get (up to those instant kills when doing 2 damage in Fallout 2).

MickJay

2010-09-08, 06:50 AM

Finesse isn't bugged - it simply does reduce all your damage by flat 30%, regardless of type, it's how it's supposed to work. If it only reduced melee damage, there would be no trade-off whatsoever for picking it for gunslingers.

F1 levels are capped at 21, which lets you get only 7 perks (or 5 with Skilled trait, which makes it even worse here than in F2).

Bloody mess is fun, and I often pick it - though for the more twinked out builds you usually need the bonus from whichever other trait you decide to pick.

Irbis

2010-09-08, 07:08 AM

The hunting rifle, as far as I understand it, is the most accurate weapon you will get until you reach the Hub or Necropolis. And accuracy = good for someone who is built for keeping his or her distance.

Keep in mind you'll enter the battles from close range relatively often, because the enemies jumped you or because you're storming a building with enemies in the first room. AR (or was the scoped version?) has terrible close range penalties.

And besides, as was mentioned -1 Str penalty isn't that big. Buffs are your friend before big battles.

My favourite gun in Fallout 1 was the .223 pistol, which you can get after completing the quest for Irwin in Hub, you only need to be level 5 or 6 for that. It's strictly superior to even the sniper rifle, at least for short-to-medium distances, it's lighter and needs one less AP to fire. And then there's the Red Ryder Limited Edition BB gun, which in terms of speed & power is the best small gun you can get, the only problem is finding it (and the ammo for it)

Yup. As for the ammo, that's why I suggested stealing it :smallsmile:

Plus, if we're talking F1, Turbo Plasma is the best anyway, so it might be a good idea to Tag energy weapons too, or instead of small guns/stealing.

Fallout 1 is capped at level 20, keep that in mind.

However luck also modifies what kind of criticals you get (up to those instant kills when doing 2 damage in Fallout 2).

And reaching level 21 is impossible anyway, unless you do two last quests in the right order, and unless you farm Deathclaws for XP.

As for these 2 HP kills, they're the best :smallbiggrin:

VanBuren

2010-09-08, 01:13 PM

Definitely give Ian an SMG. It's a great idea, I swear.

Irbis

2010-09-08, 05:01 PM

No no no! Give everyone a minigun! :smallbiggrin:

chiasaur11

2010-09-08, 08:26 PM

No no no! Give everyone a minigun! :smallbiggrin:

I gave Tycho an assault shotgun.

This is the only excusable burst weapon to give a teammate.

To be fair, it works pretty well.

VanBuren

2010-09-08, 08:51 PM

I gave Tycho an assault shotgun.

This is the only excusable burst weapon to give a teammate.

To be fair, it works pretty well.

Lies. Ian never misses his target.
Unfortunately, his target always seems to be you.

fknm

2010-09-08, 08:58 PM

Keep in mind you'll enter the battles from close range relatively often, because the enemies jumped you or because you're storming a building with enemies in the first room. AR (or was the scoped version?) has terrible close range penalties.

And besides, as was mentioned -1 Str penalty isn't that big. Buffs are your friend before big battles.
Eh? No gun in FO1 has a penalty for being too close to your enemy. High accuracy guns at close range are AWESOME, because shots to the eyes have a great chance of a crit.

Using drugs to overcome STR requirements sucks, because it makes addiction virtually guaranteed, and the Chem Resistance trait is awful for other reasons, namely, The Glow.

Plus, if we're talking F1, Turbo Plasma is the best anyway, so it might be a good idea to Tag energy weapons too, or instead of small guns/stealing.
You do realize that if you crit fail a luck check in Adytium, you won't even get the opportunity to get that gun, right? I don't like the idea of staking my entire build on something that can be denied so easily. Also, without metagaming, Adytium comes pretty late in the game- it sucks to have a tagged skill doing nothing for you for 2/3rds of the game. Better to use the Tag! perk to grab that if the opportunity presents itself, IMO.

Ozymandias

2010-09-08, 11:45 PM

And yet my most memorable kill in Fallout 1 was with the 10mm SMG, when a single burst managed to kill off three fully healthy raiders who were spread out across the whole game screen (they were in a distance of about 5, 8 and 12 steps from my character, and the two in the back were exactly at the maximum bullet spread range of the SMG).

I've probably played through Fallout 2 eight or nine times, and I still avoid burst guns because I don't have any idea how they work. Sometimes I'll do 360 damage crits from ten meters away, sometimes I'll empty a magazine on a raider who's one hex away from me and do 6-12 damage.

Eh? No gun in FO1 has a penalty for being too close to your enemy. High accuracy guns at close range are AWESOME, because shots to the eyes have a great chance of a crit.

I'm pretty sure that the "island of accuracy" exists only with the scoped hunting rifle in Fallout 2; I don't think it even affected the actual sniper rifle, although I could be wrong. I agree that the way combat worked in Fallout makes it so that shotguns are reasonably good long range weapons and everything is most effective at close range. I still prefer pistols, though.

Using drugs to overcome STR requirements sucks, because it makes addiction virtually guaranteed, and the Chem Resistance trait is awful for other reasons, namely, The Glow.

It's also a huge pain to find enough buffout, then use it at the first round of combat, then find some more, etc. That said, you can usually deal with a -20% because aimed shots really only become super-powerful in the middle-late game, by which point getting the strength buffs isn't especially hard, and there are enough low STR guns that it's never a huge issue.

You do realize that if you crit fail a luck check in Adytium, you won't even get the opportunity to get that gun, right? I don't like the idea of staking my entire build on something that can be denied so easily. Also, without metagaming, Adytium comes pretty late in the game- it sucks to have a tagged skill doing nothing for you for 2/3rds of the game. Better to use the Tag! perk to grab that if the opportunity presents itself, IMO.
Yeah, but there really isn't a whole lot to spend skill points on after you get small guns to ~140% and a couple of others in the low hundreds. There just aren't enough useful skills that don't give incredibly diminishing returns; lockpick over 70 is useless, but at least every point spent on Energy is giving you some benefit.

fknm

2010-09-08, 11:57 PM

Yeah, but there really isn't a whole lot to spend skill points on after you get small guns to ~140% and a couple of others in the low hundreds. There just aren't enough useful skills that don't give incredibly diminishing returns; lockpick over 70 is useless, but at least every point spent on Energy is giving you some benefit.
Science is pretty solid, especially for a first timer, since a decent Science check is the only way to discover much of the backstory at The Glow. Lockpick over 70 isn't useless, if you play Ironman- IIRC, lockpicking the Mariposa doors with a good success rate takes close to 100. Stealth also lets you do some amazing things if you pump it, although that usually also means going without allies- nothing is worse than having to fight at the Necropolis Pumphouse because Ian decided to walk in front of the Mutants while you were sneaking behind them..

Philistine

2010-09-09, 11:42 PM

But the STR requirement for all rifles are 6. And you get the hunting rifle within 30 minutes of play, if you don't drag your feet. I want to be able to utilize the guns 100%.

No, this is simply incorrect. I'm alt-tabbed out of the game* right now: the Hunting Rifle (from the Vault 15 bathroom) lists "Min STR: 5," nor is my 5 STR Gunslinger Gal suffering any accuracy penalties for inadequate strength. The Double-Barreled Shotgun is even more forgiving, requiring only a Min STR: 4.

Once again: in Vanilla FO1, Rifles only require STR: 5.

* v1.1 (the only official patch) plus the high-resolution mod (without which the game is unplayable due to palette wackiness), but no gameplay or item mods of any kind

Avilan the Grey

2010-09-10, 12:46 AM

No, this is simply incorrect. I'm alt-tabbed out of the game* right now: the Hunting Rifle (from the Vault 15 bathroom) lists "Min STR: 5," nor is my 5 STR Gunslinger Gal suffering any accuracy penalties for inadequate strength. The Double-Barreled Shotgun is even more forgiving, requiring only a Min STR: 4.

Hmm. Might it be a side effect of the "Small Frame" perk? I am 100% sure that checking the stats on the shotgun it said "STR requirement: 6".

SparkMandriller

2010-09-10, 01:13 AM

I haven't got the frst game installed right now, but the shotgun and hunting rifle take 4 and 5 strength in Fallout 2 at least. Don't see why they would have changed it, either.

Small Frame just means you can carry less, it's definitely not that.

chiasaur11

2010-09-10, 01:26 AM

Hmm. Might it be a side effect of the "Small Frame" perk? I am 100% sure that checking the stats on the shotgun it said "STR requirement: 6".

Probably.

Small Frame does make strength more of an issue.

Edit: Or I'm wrong. Figured it would be a thing a mod would do, though.

fknm

2010-09-10, 05:21 PM

http://user.tninet.se/~jyg699a/fallout.html

Don't read this if you haven't finished the game before, but the most highly regarded FO walkthrough on the internet (put together by a nma-fallout.com admin) says that Sniper Rifle builds require a STR of 6.

Philistine

2010-09-11, 01:13 AM

Although the Sniper builds outlined in that guide do show 6 STR, it also states:
A Strength of 5 is enough to handle all small guns. A ST of 7 is sufficient to wield all big guns and energy weapons, and in fact ST 6 is enough for everything but the Minigun. Once you get the Powered Armor you don't have to worry about this.
Guess what category the Sniper Rifle falls under. Go on. Guess.

Yeah, that's right.

At a guess, the higher STR is for carry weight.

SparkMandriller

2010-09-11, 01:41 AM

Avilan the Grey

2010-09-11, 02:37 AM

Probably this. He's using Small Frame, after all.

But as I said, I only got the message that the gun was too heavy to use properly when I was actually shooting things with it.

Cespenar

2010-09-11, 03:31 AM

Weapon list (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_2_weapons) for Fallout 2.

fknm

2010-09-11, 10:14 AM

Even if the sniper rifle did take 6 strength, which I'm pretty certain it doesn't, and even if you weren't just using the .223 pistol anyway, even though it's cooler, and even if you didn't have a decent enough small guns to ignore the accuracy penalty anyway, you're still going to get power armour not that long after the rifle in any case. Power armour that gives you +3 strength.

This seriously isn't an issue.
You can get the Sniper Rifle as soon as you get to the Hub; in fact, it's what most sniper builds do. It's also a much better gun than the .223 pistol because of its MASSIVE hidden accuracy bonus (about 50%). Unless you're metagaming, it's a long way from the Hub to the Brotherhood, and you can lose out on the Power Armor anyways by failing either a speech check or a sneak check

Also, why would you take small frame as a perk when you're going to use that extra stat point (obviously, one extra point in AGL is equivalent to one extra point anywhere) to only partially mitigate its effect? Especially when followers have an infinite carrying capacity?

SparkMandriller

2010-09-11, 10:34 AM

Well, I was just guessing. I dunno, ask the guy who wrote the guide why he picked what he did.

BladeofOblivion

2010-09-11, 07:42 PM

For the record, I prefer Energy Weapons to Small Guns. Plus, Enclave troopers and Super Mutants are very weak to Pulse and Plasma Weapons, respectively. Not to mention that fast shot lets you throw out a lot of plasma or pulse shots per round.

mangosta71

2010-09-13, 09:22 PM

Fast shot also means you can't aim. A sniper rifle (or gauss rifle, once they become available) will one-shot a super mutant or Enclave soldier if you hit them in the eyes almost every time (and the few that survive the first will die to the second). Eye shots can kill, and often do, long before your target's hp reaches 0, and usually do a boatload of bonus damage besides. Each shot may take 2 more AP than someone popping off rounds with fast shot, but you'll fire less than half as many rounds to get the job done.

For the record, I tried fast shot once in FO2. Restarted almost immediately upon acquiring a gun because it took me so much longer to kill anything. Maybe if I'd had a minigun it would have been bearable, but not with a small arms character.

king.com

2010-09-13, 09:29 PM

For the record, I tried fast shot once in FO2. Restarted almost immediately upon acquiring a gun because it took me so much longer to kill anything. Maybe if I'd had a minigun it would have been bearable, but not with a small arms character.

The return of the fast shot investment is made once you get your plasma weapons. High agility + fast shot means you get to repeatedly hose down Enclave troopers, which can be particularly handy, even outdoing Eye shots with the sniper rifle (as often with Enclave your in a closed enviroment).

Also getting 3 shots a round with the .223 Pistol can to serious amounts of damage.

Philistine

2010-09-13, 11:31 PM

Alternatively, two targeted shots - especially to the eyes - take the same AP, are more likely to score an insta-gib crit, and use less ammo. And sometimes one targeted shot is enough, leaving you with AP to spare for things like movement, or reloading.... or trying to insta-gib a second target. :smallamused:

SparkMandriller

2010-09-14, 12:29 AM

For the record, I tried fast shot once in FO2. Restarted almost immediately upon acquiring a gun because it took me so much longer to kill anything. Maybe if I'd had a minigun it would have been bearable, but not with a small arms character.

It's pretty hilarious once you've got Sniper. No need for aimed shots if every attack is a critical anyway, unless you really really hate the torso crits table.

Cespenar

2010-09-14, 01:59 AM

It's pretty hilarious once you've got Sniper. No need for aimed shots if every attack is a critical anyway, unless you really really hate the torso crits table.

Sniper is late late-game.

Besides, even if Fast Shot would somehow be better, aiming is almost all the reason I find the game's combat system enjoyable.

Edit: By the way, Sniper is especially awesome with aiming, because critting on the eyes gives you a much more destructive critical table than the torso.

SparkMandriller

2010-09-14, 02:39 AM

Yeah, Sniper's the point at which everything pays off. Before that it's just burst firing everyone, though that's enjoyable in its way too. Sometimes it's just more fun to shoot a guy a dozen times instead of once, y'know?

And eye crits are good, but I dunno if they're better than two chest crits for the same AP. I guess it doesn't really matter, Sniper means you can kill pretty much everything anyway.

king.com

2010-09-14, 03:38 AM

Triaxx

2010-09-14, 07:01 AM

Actually, if you're willing to put in the effort, Fast Shot, Better Rate of Fire, Better Criticals, and Sniper with 10 luck, means that you can pick up the Bozar and Win. No chance of defeat. Every single round of insanely powerful .223 ammo criticals. Astronomical damage.

My favored perk list:

Awareness
Bonus Rate of Fire
Better Criticals
Empathy
Sniper
Action Boy (2)
Living Anatomy

I suppose for pure damage, you could drop Empathy for More Criticals, but Sniper negates it and I don't bother.

Gifted and Kamikaze are my traits.

mangosta71

2010-09-14, 09:56 AM

And eye crits are good, but I dunno if they're better than two chest crits for the same AP. I guess it doesn't really matter, Sniper means you can kill pretty much everything anyway.
I find that one eye crit is more likely to kill than two torso crits. And what weapon has such a low AP cost that it doubles by increasing it 2 points? Assuming the same weapon, 2 aimed vs 3 fast is more likely, and even more likely is 3 aimed vs 4 fast. 3 eye crits = (probably) 3 dead bad guys, whereas 4 torso crits = (at most) 2 dead bad guys. Every crit on the eye table is an insta-gib, after all. A torso crit is just more damage, and the big guys like Enclave soldiers and super mutants have huge hp pools.

HenryHankovitch

2010-09-14, 11:08 AM

Sledgehammer.

Groin shots only. On everyone.

That's the real way to play the game.

JellyPooga

2010-09-14, 12:09 PM

Sledgehammer.

Groin shots only. On everyone.

That's the real way to play the game.

Preach it brother!

The biggest downside to this particular tactic is waiting for every damn thing you hit to slide across the entire screen every time you hit it...either that or you spend a lot of time running around to get in a position so that the "slide time" is halted by a wall or other obstacle.

Philistine

2010-09-14, 12:23 PM

"Two chest crits for the same AP" as an aimed shot requires a gun that costs only 3 AP to fire in normal mode. You're finding such a weapon... where?

Also, torso hits - even crits - are much more likely to be reduced by whatever armor the target might be wearing. This can be a problem when you start running into Power Armor-wearing baddies; eye hits in general seem to be much more likely to bypass the target's armor.

And for the record: I don't hate the torso crit table, I just find it seriously lackluster compared to the crit tables of almost every other location.

SparkMandriller

2010-09-14, 01:26 PM

I find that one eye crit is more likely to kill than two torso crits. And what weapon has such a low AP cost that it doubles by increasing it 2 points? Assuming the same weapon, 2 aimed vs 3 fast is more likely, and even more likely is 3 aimed vs 4 fast. 3 eye crits = (probably) 3 dead bad guys, whereas 4 torso crits = (at most) 2 dead bad guys. Every crit on the eye table is an insta-gib, after all.

"Two chest crits for the same AP" as an aimed shot requires a gun that costs only 3 AP to fire in normal mode. You're finding such a weapon... where?

Also, torso hits - even crits - are much more likely to be reduced by whatever armor the target might be wearing. This can be a problem when you start running into Power Armor-wearing baddies; eye hits in general seem to be much more likely to bypass the target's armor.

Point the first: .44 magnum/gauss pistol/pulse pistol/alien blaster/a few more guns all take 4 AP. Throw in Bonus Rate of Fire, 'cause I don't think any ranged build ever has skipped that, and we're down to 3. Fast shot takes it down by 1 to 2 AP per shot, aimed shots bring it up by one to 4 AP per shot. So double.
Point the second: if you check out the crit tables, you'll note that two torso crits do indeed do more damage than eye ones. Eye crits do blinding, though, which is better than the typical knockdown from torso crits, but better damage? Nooo.
Not sure where you guys are coming from with the armour bypass and the instant kill crits, though, 'cause they're just as likely for the torso as for the eyes. Head too. They're less likely with arm/leg shots, I guess, but I don't know why you'd be aiming there by the time you've got Sniper.

Fast Shot's pretty good when you're Bozar/P90 bursting things, too, like that other dude said. Those get pretty crazy with Sniper. Like, well, everything.

Triaxx

2010-09-14, 03:05 PM

Disabling crits to the arms/legs are very useful, since it prevents them from using two handed weapons, and in Deathclaws, breaking the left arm prevents them from attacking. At least in F2.

Deth Muncher

2010-09-14, 07:40 PM

Philistine

2010-09-14, 08:01 PM

Try No Mutants Allowed. (http://www.nma-fallout.com/) The high-resolution patches also fix the palette.

Deth Muncher

2010-09-14, 08:02 PM

Try No Mutants Allowed. (http://www.nma-fallout.com/) The high-resolution patches also fix the palette.

Any particular ones there, other than the Hi-Rez one?

Philistine

2010-09-14, 09:31 PM

No idea. I generally just go with the official patches (v1.1 for FO1, and v1.02 for FO2) plus the high-resolution mod.

mangosta71

2010-09-14, 09:35 PM

Point the first: .44 magnum/gauss pistol/pulse pistol/alien blaster/a few more guns all take 4 AP. Throw in Bonus Rate of Fire, 'cause I don't think any ranged build ever has skipped that, and we're down to 3. Fast shot takes it down by 1 to 2 AP per shot, aimed shots bring it up by one to 4 AP per shot. So double.
A small minority of the guns you find take base 4 AP. The .223 pistol has double the range, and nearly double the damage output, of the .44 magnum. The gauss rifle does about 50% more damage than the gauss pistol. Laser rifles have approximately equivalent damage to the pulse pistol, with triple the range. The various incarnations of plasma rifles, while having only double the range of the pulse pistol, deal 10% (standard plasma), 20% (turbo plasma), or 60% (pulse) more damage. So really, only the alien blaster is superior in damage output to other options available at the same point in the game, and it's limited by its ridiculously short range.

Point the second: if you check out the crit tables, you'll note that two torso crits do indeed do more damage than eye ones. Eye crits do blinding, though, which is better than the typical knockdown from torso crits, but better damage? Nooo.
Not sure where you guys are coming from with the armour bypass and the instant kill crits, though, 'cause they're just as likely for the torso as for the eyes. Head too. They're less likely with arm/leg shots, I guess, but I don't know why you'd be aiming there by the time you've got Sniper.
I dunno what tables you're looking at. On the wikia tables (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Aimed_Shot), every critical range for eyes is more damage than torso. Also, you need a 71+ to ignore armor on torso crits, whereas you only need 21+ (guaranteed with better criticals) for an eye crit to ignore armor. Besides, most enemies aren't wearing armor on their heads to begin with, and eye shots automatically ignore armor in those situations.

Fast Shot's pretty good when you're Bozar/P90 bursting things, too, like that other dude said. Those get pretty crazy with Sniper. Like, well, everything.
If you want to spend 15 rounds (Bozar) or 12 rounds (P90) doing the job I do with 1, more power to ya.

tyckspoon

2010-09-14, 09:55 PM

No idea. I generally just go with the official patches (v1.1 for FO1, and v1.02 for FO2) plus the high-resolution mod.

I don't remember if the official patches include a timing fix; if they don't, you'll want to grab that, because otherwise the internal game clock (as used primarily for travel time on the overworld map and finding random encounters) will be horribly off, because it's one of those seemed-like-a-good-idea things that was timed based on the processors that were current back then. So a modern computer will see you sprinting across the wastelands at hyperspeeds and never running into encounters. Which is nice if you just want to explore the game, but it does tend to mean you're a bit short on XP and gear that you would otherwise loot on your way (for example, there's a pretty common encounter with Slavers that is fairly easy to clear.. but all of the Slavers carry guns, and there's always one with an SMG, which is a really nice early trade good. If you don't ever run into them, you're gonna be broke for a long time and undergunned when you do finally run into storyline/fixed location enemies that have good weapons.)

Philistine

2010-09-14, 10:21 PM

... I never even knew about the timing issue. In fact, I thought that particular programming practice had died out in the 80s.

At any rate, I don't think I've ever had this issue with either game, so I have to assume that the fix is in the official patches.

SparkMandriller

2010-09-14, 10:47 PM

I dunno what tables you're looking at. On the wikia tables (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Aimed_Shot), every critical range for eyes is more damage than torso. Also, you need a 71+ to ignore armor on torso crits, whereas you only need 21+ (guaranteed with better criticals) for an eye crit to ignore armor. Besides, most enemies aren't wearing armor on their heads to begin with, and eye shots automatically ignore armor in those situations.

http://falloutmods.wikia.com/wiki/Critical_hit_tables

I actually didn't realise there was a separate table for aimed shots. Huh. Learn something new every day I guess.

If you want to spend 15 rounds (Bozar) or 12 rounds (P90) doing the job I do with 1, more power to ya.

I dunno, sometimes it takes more than one aimed shot to kill something. Typically doesn't take more than one burst from a bozar.

Avilan the Grey

2010-09-15, 01:28 AM

Hey, uh. Question. I just got both of these games today, from the original disks a friend of mine had. Where do I download the patch and the thing to make the crazy trippy colors go away? Or did I miss that in this thread already?

Try No Mutants Allowed. (http://www.nma-fallout.com/) The high-resolution patches also fix the palette.

This patch will NOT fix the weird rainbow colors if you run the game on Vista or 7!

The reason is that the cause of the problem is the Explorer process (not Internet Explorer, but the actual process that provides the desktop interface in Windows) tries to push the taskbar through the game. Modern games uses a different method than these old ones to stop it from doing so, but the Fallout games just can't do it.

There are two ways of fixing this problem; either turn the Explorer process off (start the game, minimise it, CTRL-ALT-DEL to task manager and kill the Explorer process and then ALT-TAB back into the game) OR create a .BAT file that automatically turns off Explorer, starts the game, and automatically starts Explorer again when the game is turned off. I have done this and I can mail you the BAT Files if you want (when I come home, I am at work now)

Philistine

2010-09-15, 02:28 AM

I installed these two games on my Win7 machine last week. The high-res patch - which also includes an option to set color depth to 8- or 16-bit - completely fixed the trippy colors.

Avilan the Grey

2010-09-15, 02:44 AM

I installed these two games on my Win7 machine last week. The high-res patch - which also includes an option to set color depth to 8- or 16-bit - completely fixed the trippy colors.

...Well it didn't for me. Or I am screwing something up. Good to know that it worked for you. :smallsmile:

TheEmerged

2010-09-15, 11:10 AM

And I've had no problems with it on Vista. I'll sometimes get the trippy colors on the initial menu, but they disappear when the savegame loads.

Tehnar

2010-09-16, 02:53 AM

I would also recommend Killap's patch that added extra content (that was programmed in the game but never made it to the final cut). And it fixes up some things. Its satisfying to find Suliks sister and keep the Ghouls away from slavery.

I found that burst weapons are generally worth it only once you get the sniper perk (aside from the very gruesome death they produce). A lot of the hardier stuff is pretty well armored, called shots really provide the edge you need to take out such targets.

I always found that fast shot was a pretty bad trait. It ended up doing less damage, using more ammo (not so trivial with the caseless and .223 ammo) and most importantly: shooting people in the groin is fun!:smallbiggrin:

Winthur

2010-09-16, 12:53 PM

I always found that fast shot was a pretty bad trait. It ended up doing less damage, using more ammo (not so trivial with the caseless and .223 ammo) and most importantly: shooting people in the groin is fun!:smallbiggrin:

Never enuff daka.

And with Bonus Rate of Fire (15 level) and this trait, you get to burst fire for 4 AP.

That's as many as two times for most characters.

And that's awesome.

It's like a no-losses-trait if you plan on using burst-fire weapons exclusively. Or just Big Guns - you can't aim with any of them anyway.

Triaxx

2010-09-16, 09:25 PM

I've found that with the exception of super powerful big guns, Fast Shot isn't very good.

Except in Fallout Tactics. Then it's beyond all sorts of awesome.

factotum

2010-09-17, 01:47 AM

... I never even knew about the timing issue. In fact, I thought that particular programming practice had died out in the 80s.

A game as recent as Midwinter 2 (1991) still suffers from that problem, so no, it didn't die out in the 80s like it darn well should have!

valadil

2010-09-17, 10:45 AM

Is it possible to play either game without the mouse? I have carpal tunnel problems and am perfectly happy gaming with a keyboard or controller, but the mouse destroys my wrist. So far I haven't found a keyboard only option but I was hoping one of you FO junkies might know something I don't. Don't let my only Fallout experience be #3.

Deth Muncher

2010-09-17, 01:09 PM

Made a d00d in FO1. I think I gave him 9 Luck, 9 Agility and took points from Cha. Also, Small Build, Bloody Mess, and tagged Small Guns, Energy Weapons and SCIENCE! So far, I have 75xp from killing rats and being untouched.

factotum

2010-09-18, 01:47 AM

Triaxx

2010-09-18, 05:55 AM

Might also try a tablet. I knew a guy who had a shoulder injury and used one to play strategy games whie it was healing. He was pretty good.

valadil

2010-09-18, 12:41 PM

I don't know of one, but have you tried using a trackball instead of a conventional mouse?

I did briefly. It wasn't a good fit though and made me stretch my finger uncomfortably high. I'd like to try one of the thumb style ones, but haven't found any to try out in a store. I'm not about to buy another without trying it first.

Might also try a tablet. I knew a guy who had a shoulder injury and used one to play strategy games whie it was healing. He was pretty good.

That's a thought. I wonder if there's a free way to make my iPhone into a bluetooth mouse.