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TechnOkami
2010-09-05, 11:37 PM
So, I have one particular question that applies to two different characters of mine: How would you role play such a person?

1. The first character is a Lawful Evil Samurai (very Bushido bound) who rides around on a Winter Wolf.

2. A True Neutral Druid Pirate, who might also be a Witch and ride around on a giant turtle.

note: Both of these are in a completely separate system from the standard D20, so I don't want this to turn into a discussion on how much these classes suck. I would really appreciate it.

And with that, let the discussion begin.

KillianHawkeye
2010-09-05, 11:45 PM
I would roleplay each according to their personality. I see you've neglected to give any information about their personalities....

(A character is much more than a race/class combo and an alignment. I need a bit more to go on.)

TechnOkami
2010-09-05, 11:50 PM
Argh... they don't quite have defined personalities yet, I'm just looking for ideas which might help me build them, because conceptually I really like the both of them... ...I'm just not sure how I should RP them.

(the Samurai has been RP's before [made him act like your typical samurai warrior, fighting for and fully submitting to his lord], but not the Druid Pirate)

Zaydos
2010-09-05, 11:55 PM
Just from what you've said.

Samurai: Honor before reason. Death before dishonor. No mercy, no compassion, no kindness. If his honor demands you die, you die. If his honor says he obeys you, he will obey to the end of the earth. A myrmidon with a strong sense of loyalty to his lord.

Druid: This one is harder. True Neutral means they are more likely to take captives than kill and attempt to be as bloodless in their raids as possible, along with targeting people who can afford to take the loss over those it will ruin (although these also tend to be the most dangerous targets). As a druid and a witch they also are likely to have a strong desire to protect the balance of the sea, and may dislike large fishing fleets. May even stake out a portion of the sea as their domain and ban fishers from it entirely.

Vangor
2010-09-05, 11:57 PM
1. The first character is a Lawful Evil Samurai (very Bushido bound) who rides around on a Winter Wolf.

What does "Bushido" bound mean, really? Is this why he is considered lawful, or is this simply on the battlefield, or is he in all ways meant to be honorable? And is he conquering or cruel? My initial thought would be a warrior who leads a band in the taking of villages and raiding of caravans, but never do they rape or slay the unarmed or burn crops and similar. Combat is simply face-to-face, and this is the only means of intimidating others he will employ is word of mouth of his sword skill.

As for the true neutral druid pirate, probably a character who both smuggles and uses clear differences in power, and eventual namesake to thieve from merchant ships who will surrender, lose a portion of the cargo, and continue on. The smuggling helps keep the ship supplied and is a time for gathering knowledge useful for protecting the oceans. Perhaps too big of fishing fleets need to be disabled or something? He doesn't flatly protect nature, but when such activity would threaten nature he could react.

TechnOkami
2010-09-05, 11:58 PM
Just from what you've said.

Samurai: Honor before reason. Death before dishonor. No mercy, no compassion, no kindness. If his honor demands you die, you die. If his honor says he obeys you, he will obey to the end of the earth. A myrmidon with a strong sense of loyalty to his lord.

Druid: This one is harder. True Neutral means they are more likely to take captives than kill and attempt to be as bloodless in their raids as possible, along with targeting people who can afford to take the loss over those it will ruin (although these also tend to be the most dangerous targets). As a druid and a witch they also are likely to have a strong desire to protect the balance of the sea, and may dislike large fishing fleets. May even stake out a portion of the sea as their domain and ban fishers from it entirely.

Of course I forget to mention this... my bad. One of my first thoughts with her was because she is a neutral Druid Pirate, she strives to create balance by preying on other pirates, so effectively she's a privateer, but more or less a pirate.

The_Admiral
2010-09-06, 12:04 AM
You can just play the samurai like the Japanese Occupation

TechnOkami
2010-09-06, 12:07 AM
You can just play the samurai like the Japanese Occupation

...sadly that works.

swagmanabz
2010-09-06, 12:23 AM
So, I have one particular question that applies to two different characters of mine: How would you role play such a person?

1. The first character is a Lawful Evil Samurai (very Bushido bound) who rides around on a Winter Wolf.

2. A True Neutral Druid Pirate, who might also be a Witch and ride around on a giant turtle.

note: Both of these are in a completely separate system from the standard D20, so I don't want this to turn into a discussion on how much these classes suck. I would really appreciate it.

And with that, let the discussion begin.

Well lets begin with the first one:

Lawful Evil is a very interesting alighnment but can be played properly and samurai is a good choice for that. Samurai generally are more honorable and such even if they have evil intentions. You would want to avoid breaking the code of honor and laws you have choosen to follow but feel free to work around certain ones and make sure to take advantage if it doesnt use EXACT wording.

Now the second:

True Neutral is a great choice since druids are big on (or used to be) balence and nature. The pirate/witch addition could be a problem (a big one) beacuse both those lean on being more choatic (pirate) and more evil (the witch). The key to roleplaying this charector is to switch sides often (normally the loosing) and have the charector keep to thereself and not talk much as to avoid upseting the alighment and creating a mystery about them (since you said they MITE be a which, why give the other players and more certainty about that). Make sure your DM is okay with all this too.


hope i helped XD

TechnOkami
2010-09-06, 01:07 AM
True Neutral is a great choice since druids are big on (or used to be) balence and nature. The pirate/witch addition could be a problem (a big one) beacuse both those lean on being more choatic (pirate) and more evil (the witch). The key to roleplaying this charector is to switch sides often (normally the loosing) and have the charector keep to thereself and not talk much as to avoid upseting the alighment and creating a mystery about them (since you said they MITE be a which, why give the other players and more certainty about that). Make sure your DM is okay with all this too.

I agree with what you said on the Druids being neutral, but not so much on the witches necessarily being evil or pirates being chaotic. More than likely this is true in the sense of a traditional witch/pirate, but my character is far from traditional. The Pirate aspect of her is more because its her living to pillage those who pillage, while the Witch part is because I think it would be really cool if she were a witch and not necessarily evil, because not all witches are (think the Good Witch of the East vs the Wicked Witch of the West, therein being alignments of both good and evil must mean that a neutrally aligned witch must too exist, it just hasn't made itself apparent).

Serpentine
2010-09-06, 02:02 AM
Copy-pasta'd cuz it's easier that way:
My cheat sheet, always growing (repeated who knows how many times on here, sorry to bore any previous readers):
- Fear: Full-blown phobia, a constant dread, a general dislike, or an "that's icky".
- Fetish: Full-blown philia, something you have a "thing" for, a general like, or generally attracted to.
- Virtue: The character's major strength, and/or something they will always respond to.
- Vice: The character's major weakness, and/or something they have trouble resisting.
- Alignment priority: What part of your character's alignment is most important to them? e.g. is a Lawful Good character more concerned with good deeds or upholding the law? What does their alignment mean to them?
- Short-term goal: What are they striving for currently?
- Long-term goal: What do they want to do before they die?

Once you've got those (think I've come up with more, too...) you can start adding "why?" to each of them.

Lev
2010-09-06, 03:58 AM
So, I have one particular question that applies to two different characters of mine: How would you role play such a person?

1. The first character is a Lawful Evil Samurai (very Bushido bound) who rides around on a Winter Wolf.

2. A True Neutral Druid Pirate, who might also be a Witch and ride around on a giant turtle.

note: Both of these are in a completely separate system from the standard D20, so I don't want this to turn into a discussion on how much these classes suck. I would really appreciate it.

And with that, let the discussion begin.
1. I'd play him as someone who's already broken his code, he is still lawful but because of the conflict between his morality and his past actions he is distraught. This would open up the ability to play the samurai somewhat like a fallen paladin (bound by a code, following it yet only for his own sake since the code is already broken in his mind), you could then branch out into a barbarian-like class as an outlet for the rage born from sorrow and repressed inner conflict. EASY melodrama.

2. What?

Serpentine
2010-09-06, 05:03 AM
For funsies, I'm gonna try to apply my cheatsheet to these characters in question.
1. The first character is a Lawful Evil Samurai (very Bushido bound) who rides around on a Winter Wolf.
- Fear: Phobia of water. Dreads the day he will have to grieve for a loved one.
- Fetish: Has a thing for birds and avian-like humanoids. Is fond of cabbage.
- Virtue: When someone he cares about's wellbeing is in jeopardy, he is braver than a lion.
- Vice: He finds it hard to resist smacking protruding bottoms. Any protruding bottom.
- Alignment priority: He is a hateful, spiteful little bastard, but his code is his ball and chain.
- Short-term goal: Revenge.
- Long-term goal: Despotism.

Jon Wei was just one of his master's dozen or so Samurai. His parents had put him in the order when he could barely even walk, and he had been bound to his master ever since. He was a little cruel - his jokes tended to be quite mean-spirited - but he was slow to anger and devoted to his cause.
One day, he was riding along a mountain stream on an errand for his master. Coming around a corner, he saw a lithe-bodied woman bent over picking herbs by the side of the road. Unable to resist the bobbing orb, he rode up behind her and gave her a great smack on the end. She straightened up in shock, revealing, not a lovely maiden, but a horrible hag. She gave a screech and a wave, and his horse reared up, jumped back, and then came down in the river, the rider trapped underneath.
The horse twisted its neck as it landed, and Jon Wei struggled to gasp at air while he tore desperately at the stirrups. He was catapaulted downstream, through the rapids. At some point he heard a crack and then he couldn't move his shoulder properly, but there was another crack at his head before the pain could set in. He had flashes of light and shadow in his eyes, when a toothy maw clamped down firmly but gently on his arm.
The rescuer, a young Winter Wolf, dragged him to the shore. Once he was safe there, the Wolf gave a long, low howl. A few minutes later, a wild young woman emerged from the trees. Her clothes were all hand-made from materials straight from the woods, and her jewels were bones, teeth and interesting nuts. Her eyes were big almonds, her skin pleasantly bronzed, and her ears tapered elegantly up the sides of her head. She caressed her Wolf, and gave him a kiss on the nose, before looking over the Samurai. She spoke in words he didn't understand, then heaved him with surprising strength onto the back of the Wolf.
She took him into her home - a small, dry cave by a billabong - and treated his wounds. He remained there, healing, through the end of the summer until the end of winter. His head wound was infected and threatened to turn into a nasty fever, but she nursed him through it. At some point she went out with the Wolf, and returned with fresh horse meat and hide - the horse washed up to shore not far from where Jon was rescued.
Over the months, Jon learnt some of her tongue and the ways of the natural world. He taught her his own language, and some weaponry skills. As the first daffodils poked their heads through the melting snow, he was well enough for them to make love for the first time.
Unfortunately, by that point, the tug of his honour had become irresistible. It was too late for his errand, but he was still in his master's service. The Wolf went with him, as a substitute until he could find a new horse.
The journey home was uneventful, but the moment he stepped into civilised lands he realised it no longer was his home. He was in his master's service again for only a few weeks until he approached him to be released from his services. He had served him faithfully for a full twenty years - the required amount was only 15. The master argued, threatened, pleaded, offered greater rewards - no Samurai had ever left his service so long as he still lived, and this was a record of which he was proud - but to no avail. Jon Wei had a new home, and a new duty - a child on the way. Eventually the master renegged, and let him go with his blessings.
Jon Wei returned to his rescuer with the Wolf, and they lived happily for several months. He built around the cave, forming a cosy home with several small rooms. She caught and trained beautiful birds, and when they needed money, Jon would take some to town to sell as pets. One of his favourite things was to sit in the sun with her, and watch as she lured down the birds, one crumb at a time, to tame them and teach them beautiful tricks. Predictibly, because this is a character background, this did not last.
The woman was getting heavy enough to prevent her from walking as easy as she used to, and Jon Wei could tell it was time to start preparing for the baby. He took a few of the prettiest birds and set off with the Wolf to sell them. When he came home the next day, he could not throwing up for an hour. Someone had done unspeakable things to his love, before dismembering her and scattering the parts about their home. Her stomach held pride of place, before the doorway.
The next days were a blur for Jon. He threw up, he cried until he was dry, he screamed, he begged, he cradled his love's head. If it weren't that the Wolf forced him to eat the raw meat it caught, he would have died. Finally, one day, as the warm sun beat down on his face and a pretty little bird poked around his fingers for crumbs, he opened his eyes, and they were clear and dry. He did not look around at his defiled home. He just told the Wolf: "Seek." And they hunted.
They found every person who had been there that day. They hunted them down. They killed them in their sleep, or in single combat. They killed their wives as they begged for the lives of their children, and then they slaughtered them. Jon Wei stared into the eyes of every one, as the Wolf tore them apart as their menfolk had done to his love.
Eventually, there was only one man left. This man had no family. Jon Wei was oddly disappointed. This man did not beg. At least, not until the Wolf had torn off his arm. Then, he screamed. But before he did that, he told Jon: it had not been a random attack. No samurai had ever left the master's service, not while they breathed. It was an insult that could not stand.
And so Jon Wei and his Wolf hunt.

That was fun :smallsmile: Now, what can I do with the other... After that one I'm feeling kinda lazy, so this will be more dot-point.

2. A True Neutral Druid Pirate, who might also be a Witch and ride around on a giant turtle.
- Fear: Phobia of being on dry land. Dreads ecological disasters.
- Fetish: Has a soft spot for children. Enjoys storms.
- Virtue: Is willing and able to listen to and try to accommodate all points of view.
- Vice: Has no patience for buffoons, fools, blow-hards and the arrogant - or those perceived as such.
- Alignment priority: Is a bit of a balancer - believes the ocean itself is above and more important than mere quibblings of ethics and morality, although given the choice she enjoys the company of the Chaotic more.
- Short-term goal: Booty.
- Long-term goal: A united pirate force that not only seeks booty under her direction, but is an army against the enemies of the ocean.

Born on the sea, to an unnamed woman who died of a fever before reaching land. Not knowing if there was anyone looking for her, the captain of the vessel decided to keep her. She is a slave, more or less, although she is unofficially fully able to choose with whom she travels and for whom she works, and few would be able to stop her if she decided to leave, even were they willing. If asked, she would say she belongs to the sea. As a child she worked as a general deckhand and sailor, but as she grew older a deep connection to the watery world around her developed. As she exercised this connection, she became in high demand as a weather witch.
She has only stepped onto land once, in her early teens - an adventure that very nearly resulted in disaster at the hands of some over-zealous drunks and a harem scout. Since then she has kept her hair short and her clothes baggy, and her feet firmly planted on a good solid deck.
The turtle is one of several survivors of a clutch that she insisted on rescuing when the trading vessel her pirate crew attacked started leaking Alchemist's Fire all over their hatching ground. She dived into the stinking, flammable ocean to retrieve the ones she could. Some were lost, some eaten by opportunists, and some were too poisoned to survive, but some half-dozen thrived under her care. When it came time to release them again, one refused to go.

Um... Not sure where to go from there. Think it worked pretty well, anyway :smallsmile:

Vangor
2010-09-06, 05:52 AM
The key to roleplaying this charector is to switch sides often (normally the loosing) and have the charector keep to thereself

While I don't see what keeping to yourself in terms of forging relationships has to do with neutrality, true neutral characters do not switch sides often but maintain a balance by pursuing neither good nor evil. Destroying good is always evil whereas destroying evil is not always good. In this instance, you are being selfish by gaming the cosmic axis by performing good deeds to rebalance the scales weighted with evil which you've done; without the motive, the cosmic axis does not shift for you, though your reputation may certainly increase. On the other hand, performing evil in order to maintain neutrality because perhaps you let slip a little too much good just demonstrates how sociopathic your character is.

Plenty of video games use such rigid systems because of limited options. While the DM does not exactly know your motives, you do make them clear via actions in the campaign.

Serpentine
2010-09-06, 10:02 AM
Oh yeah, missed that. Yeah, "switching sides often" is not Neutral. It's insane. More Chaotic, really. Helping your party drive of marauding goblins, but restraining them from wiping them out entirely because they serve a role in the world? Sure. Deciding that, at this particular point in time, in this particular place, there is too great a concentration of Evil that needs to be dealt with before it overwhelms all Good? Could be. Philosophically considering the constant opposition of Good, Evil, Chaos and Neutrality to be an intrinsic and natural part of the workings of the universe, but recognising that it doesn't need a mere mortal's help to keep it in balance, and so spending your life observing its operations while participating as you please in the ultimately miniscule and meaningless quibblings of the dust in the cosmic gears? Absolutely.
Fighting off a bunch of ogres and then turning against your own party when you start to win? That's just mental.

big teej
2010-09-06, 10:29 AM
huge uber example post


Serpentine.... ye amaze me

did you just sit down and crank that out on a whim?

Serpentine
2010-09-06, 10:31 AM
That's a pretty good description, yeah. I was quite pleased how that came out. It's been a long time since I've written anything - months since I even wrote an idea for anything. All the answers to my cheat sheet were picked out of the air, too :smallsmile:

TechnOkami
2010-09-06, 10:22 PM
I must say thanks to Serpentine for the long possible description for my character.

Now that I've actually read the whole samurai description, I must say that for the most part (except the smacking of the posterior to ANYTHING), I really liked the Samurai character description. With a slight tweak for personal preference, I am seriously considering using this as my Samurai's background story.

The Pirate one wasn't as good, but I really appreciate the effort. Though I must ask for the samurai:


Long-term goal: Despotism.

Why despotism?

Serpentine
2010-09-06, 11:33 PM
Why not? Seems like a Lawful Evil Samurai thing to do, carving out his own little kingdom to grasp in his iron fist...
And pft. What's wrong with a bit off bum-smacking? :smalltongue: It's integral to the story!

The_Admiral
2010-09-07, 01:42 AM
Yes it is a LE thing to do but a samurai style of LE includes following orders and torture

Serpentine
2010-09-07, 01:59 AM
So? :smallconfused: What does that have to do with having a long-term goal of having an iron grip on a little nation of one's own?

The_Admiral
2010-09-07, 07:06 AM
Got if and i think you can throw bushido out of the personality of this samurai

Serpentine
2010-09-07, 07:59 AM
Again: why? Admitedly I don't really know anything about Bushido, but he was - and still is, at least in a twisted way - an honourable man. He sought to be relieved if his duties according to proper protocol, and then when he was betrayed, he sought revenge appropriately. Unless Bushido specifically dictates that they have to be under someone's command... In which case, part of his short-term goal might be to find a master who is willing to help him enact his revenge.

The_Admiral
2010-09-07, 08:06 AM
Seven virtues of Bushidō

The Bushidō code is typified by seven virtues:

* Rectitude (義, gi?)
* Courage (勇, yū?)
* Benevolence (仁, jin?)
* Respect (礼, rei?)
* Honesty (誠, makoto?)
* Honor (名誉, meiyo?)
* Loyalty (忠義, chūgi?)

Associated virtues

* Filial piety (孝, kō?)
* Wisdom (智, chi?)
* Care for the aged (悌, tei?)
I dont think a lot of the virtues are evil

Kantur
2010-09-07, 08:20 AM
As a possible alternative, The Legend of the Five Rings game has a set of tainted Samurai who follow a twisted bushido (http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/Shourido) that may work well for a LE Samurai with these virtues:

* Control - Allows one to manipulate circumstances so that there may be only one outcome.
* Determination - Seeing a thing through to its conclusion.
* Insight - The ability to see the truth behind facts. It brings foresight.
* Knowledge - The basis of right thinking. Knowing the facts of a situation.
* Perfection - The encompassing goal that surrounds and envelops all other actions.
* Strength - Acting upon knowledge with insight and control brings strength, and thus victory.
* Will - Will is the force which causes one to take the actions that they must.

Serpentine
2010-09-07, 08:25 AM
Well, you're basically that you cannot have an Evil samurai, then. Aren't there whole genres of those sorts of villains? But aside from that:
1. The class Samurai is a metagame concept, distinct from the group of people samurai. This character may have been both a Samurai and a samurai, but upon removal from service stopped being a samurai but remaining a Samurai.
1.a) This solves your problem because he remained all those things you listed until he left his service. He's still a Lawful Evil D&D (or whatever roleplaying game it was) Samurai, he's just no longer a retained samurai.
2. The only one of those that he might not adhere to is Benevolence, and there's no particular reason why he can't. I would have to find out exactly how the Samurai were expected to typify that virtue, and moreover just how often they actually did.
3. Finally, Bushido is actually a modern codification of what was for a long time poorly and variably defined. There is no particular reason for a game character to adhere to a specific codification from the 19th century, except personal preference.

edit: To be more specific...
* Rectitude (義, gi?): He is full of righteous fury.
* Courage (勇, yū?): He is as brave as can be.
* Benevolence (仁, jin?): He performs his required roles in society, and will seek to rectify any illegality he sees.
* Respect (礼, rei?): He will respect those worthy of it until the end. Theirs.
* Honesty (誠, makoto?): He will not lie.
* Honor (名誉, meiyo?): He considers his honour intact. His crusade is a matter of honour above all things.
* Loyalty (忠義, chūgi?): He is honourable to those to whom he pledges it until released from their service.

Associated virtues

* Filial piety (孝, kō?): He is doing it for his family.
* Wisdom (智, chi?): No reason why he can't have it.
* Care for the aged (悌, tei?): He has learnt the hard way that it is best to respect one's elders.

TechnOkami
2010-09-07, 05:56 PM
So, I have a few responses.

1. The rump-smacks are not happening. However, my character is Narcoleptic, so I'm just gonna say he fell asleep on his horse, slipped off, and fell into the water.

2. This isn't a D&D system I'm playing, so I won't be able to use that. If anyone cares, I'm playing Hack Master.

darkpuppy
2010-09-07, 06:16 PM
Wait, what? You're playing Hackmaster and concerned about character? Okay, different strokes for different folks, I s'pose. In which case, yeah, the whole lawful evil samurai thing is perfectly acceptable. Although... Narcolepsy? Oh, you poor person... that flaw is a ticket for Instant-DM-Rapage.

TechnOkami
2010-09-07, 06:30 PM
Wait, what? You're playing Hackmaster and concerned about character? Okay, different strokes for different folks, I s'pose. In which case, yeah, the whole lawful evil samurai thing is perfectly acceptable. Although... Narcolepsy? Oh, you poor person... that flaw is a ticket for Instant-DM-Rapage.

Don't worry, I have a monk who has all except chronic nightmares when it comes to quirks involving sleep. So he's rather surprised when he wakes up and is fighting a bear.

And as per the building of character, it applies with me to any game I pretty much play. The concept might be cool, but if my character doesn't feel like an actual person, I tend to lose interest very fast.

Zeofar
2010-09-07, 11:06 PM
Okay, I'll admit, I skimmed this thread and only just read all the OP's posts to determine if he answered my question. I'm rather interested in the Samurai character.

Now, my main question is this: what exactly is the character's code of honor? I'm not terribly familiar with Bushido, but is it literally the code that traditional samurais held themselves to? If not, what are the main tenets? Does this apply to all people, or are dealings with commoners different? How strict is it? How is it policed? How large a role does "honor" play in his culture's dealings? Is it only important among the nobility, or do all people have a strong sense of honor? To whom does this samurai answer?

TechnOkami
2010-09-08, 12:07 AM
He hasn't actually adhered to the Bushido Code for a good time, until he ran into a drow who called himself royalty (one of my quirks was that I believe someone in the party is royalty and treat them as such), so he effectively became my new lord sort of speak and I gained my samurai powers back.

Serpentine
2010-09-08, 01:02 AM
You can change your character however you like :smalltongue: It was mostly just an exercise in actually putting my cheat-sheet into real use, that ended up a bit of a creative writing adventure. I like my bum-smacking :smalltongue: but mostly I just couldn't think of anything else.

TechnOkami
2010-09-08, 06:19 PM
I know, but I liked a lot of the story you wrote, so I intend to keep a vast majority of it.