4e assassins or monks and Accurate Daggers

[cupkeyk]

Assassins and monks can use any weapon they are proficient with as a ki-foci. They are proficient with daggers; can they get the feat superior weapon proficiency(accurate dagger)?

[mobdrazhar]

I believe that Assassins are proficient in Daggers (so they can)but i'm not sure about Monks

[Nu]

It's a "Superior Implement Proficiency (Accurate Dagger)," actually, and I believe such daggers were in a Dragon magazine issue.

[Urpriest]

Assassins and monks can use any weapon they are proficient with as a ki-foci. They are proficient with daggers; can they get the feat superior weapon proficiency(accurate dagger)?

Close. Assassins and Monks can use any weapon they're proficient with as an implement. They can also use ki foci as implements. Thus, they can take Superior Implement Proficiency (Accurate Dagger) (or, indeed, Superior Implement Proficiency (Accurate Staff)) and get +1 to attack while using an accurate dagger as an implement. They won't get this benefit while using a ki focus, however.

[ghost_warlock]

Note, also, that if the power in question doesn't have the [weapon] keyword, they don't benefit from the weapon's proficiency bonus on attack rolls.

If memory serves, some assassin powers have the [weapon] keyword and some don't (generally, the melee powers have it and the ranged do not). So far, I haven't come across a single monk power with the [weapon] keyword, though I haven't looked for it on any powers higher than, say, 9th level.

[Urpriest]

Note, also, that if the power in question doesn't have the [weapon] keyword, they don't benefit from the weapon's proficiency bonus on attack rolls.

So far, I haven't come across a single monk power with the weapon keyword, though I haven't looked for it on any powers higher than, say, 9th level.

And just to clarify further, you're only getting the +1 from Superior Implement Proficiency (Accurate Dagger) on [implement] powers. So you're either doing a weapon power with your normal dagger's proficiency bonus, or an implement power using your superior implement training. Makes sense?

[Tiki Snakes]

And just to clarify further, you're only getting the +1 from Superior Implement Proficiency (Accurate Dagger) on [implement] powers. So you're either doing a weapon power with your normal dagger's proficiency bonus, or an implement power using your superior implement training. Makes sense?

Just off the top of my head, I'm assuming it would make sense to possibly follow up that with the whole versatile expertise thing? I'm not entirely sure, but it should give a further +1 to however you use the Dagger. I'm not entirely sure how reliably it's working in the Character Builder though.

(When I went to check I realised that it doesn't have dagger seperately as an impliment, so you'd have to go with Light Blades, which is both the weapon group and impliment covered. It doesn't seem to seperate weapon and impliment, bit confusing. Effectively if going by the Builder Only, you'd get a free expertise, because Light Blades covers both uses of the dagger, and you can't choose it twice, so you'd be left with an extra one to choose. Clearly, Rai, you'd pick Dagger and Light Blades, right?)

[cupkeyk]

I tried what Tiki said but if i add light blade on the left, the cards only compute the bonus AB to weapon and I put it on the right,the cards only compute them for implement powers. I gues this is a flaw in CB?

[Tiki Snakes]

I tried what Tiki said but if i add light blade on the left, the cards only compute the bonus AB to weapon and I put it on the right,the cards only compute them for implement powers. I gues this is a flaw in CB?

That's pretty much my understanding. The way the feat is described and the way it works via the builder just don't entirely match when it comes to daggers as an impliment. I'd imagine that you'd have a similar problem with Swordmages and their heavy blades.