OOTS #745 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[AlterForm]

Oh, Belkar :smallbiggrin:

And panel 8 couldn't be punnier.

[boj0]

Posters of Lidda
Belkar knows what's up. :smallcool:

[hamishspence]

Belkar's still on form, it looks like. Good rationale for his behaviour.

[whitelaughter]

Disturbingly, he has a point.
"You are sentenced to one day sharing a cell with Belkar" has more deterent value than "you are sentenced to death" - you might be able to appeal the death sentence.

EDIT: And the answer to how many bonuses he gets with that rock is: +3.
+1 For size, +1 for the racial +2 dex, and +1 for thrown/slung weapon.

[someonenonotyou]

oh Belkar you and your awesomely twisted logic.

[WWBelkarD]

:roy:: "Turned over a less bitter leaf"

Hilarious

[The Pilgrim]

Looks like Belkar is getting to understand how our society really works pretty quicky since his "conversion".

And slowly learning that he may fit in the system and like it, after all. :smallbiggrin:

[some guy]

And ofcourse, if Belkar used that pebble as an improvised light melee weapon, he wouldn't provoke attacks of opportunity while his harassers would.

Anyway, nice one.

[Zordrath]

Belkar appears to be scarier with a pebble than Riddick was with a teacup... I can see how that might reduce crime rates in the future.

[Santiago]

Great comic, love the Shawshank Redemption reference. Thanks Giant! :smallsmile:

[Scorer]

Lidda, we all love you :smallbiggrin:

[littlekKID]

finally! a new strip!

and again, :belkar: have a kinda good point there, in he's own, very disturbing way

[Greyskull]

Liked the Shawshank Redemption reference. Belkar is awesome. :smallbiggrin:

[Seventh Dwarf]

Look out! He's got a pebble!

Great sig material!

[Gerion]

Belkar, only serving the society^^

Awesome

[Agi Hammerthief]

the logic would be sound, if it it weren't for the high probability that everyone in there is on a relatively short life sentance anyways.

[Strawfox]

"...you turned over a less bitter leaf."
Aaaargh! Worst..Pun..Ever..Must..Stop..Laughing..
Love it!

[RebelRogue]

As usual, I love Belkar's line of convoluted logic! :smallbiggrin:


EDIT: And the answer to how many bonuses he gets with that rock is: +3.
+1 For size, +1 for the racial +2 dex, and +1 for thrown/slung weapon.
Errr, what? :smallconfused:

[willpell]

Can someone explain the subtext in this one for me? I could probably dig it up if I poked around on Wikipedia for a while, but I'm lazy. :smallbiggrin:

[RebelRogue]

Can someone explain the subtext in this one for me? I could probably dig it up if I poked around on Wikipedia for a while, but I'm lazy. :smallbiggrin:
Rock beats scissors.

[Shale]

Disturbingly, he has a point.
EDIT: And the answer to how many bonuses he gets with that rock is: +3.
+1 For size, +1 for the racial +2 dex, and +1 for thrown/slung weapon.

Now that's just silly. Everybody knows that one plus two plus one plus one is six.

[Vinsfeld]

I'll miss Belkar

[Dancing_Fox]

Rock beats scissors.

Is that all there is to it? I was wondering too if I missed a joke.

I got the "It does beat scissors" was referring to the pebble, as in "rock beats scissors."

But am I missing something more? Is there a scissors joke here?

Like "Pebble beats sissies" perhaps?

[B.I.T.T.]

I've gotta say the "...eaten by a tiger." thing cracked me up.

Great comic.

[thepsyker]

Now that's just silly. Everybody knows that one plus two plus one plus one is six.
The +2 is a haflings racial bonus to dex, that becomes a +1 bonus on ranged attacks such as with a thrown pebble. So its a plus one bonus from size, plus one for dex, and plus one for the thrown weapon bonus.

Edit: Also, did anyone else notice that the gladiator leading the disgruntled mob is the same one standing up to Belkar in this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0736.html) strip.

Edit: Ok, maybe leading is to strong of a word more like the only one not cowering in fear.

[Ricky S]

This strip actually freaked me out for a single moment. I thought that it could be Belkar's time then I realised that is ridiculous because Belkar is awesome.

Long live the sexy shoeless god of war! :belkar:

[DigoDragon]

Belkar makes a valid point. :smallsmile:
Also, I liked the Lidda reference too.

[Terbovus]

Great comic, and also liked the Stephen King reference, but who's Lidda? Haven't kept up with D&D for about a decade and a half, so possibly a chainmail warrior babe I've missed. :smalltongue:

By the way, this is probably the wrong place, but...
Did anyone else notice that on the new posters the Oracle is shown on the EVIL poster? I'd always assumed he was neutral. Does this mean he may have lied..? :smallconfused:

[thepsyker]

Great comic, and also liked the Stephen King reference, but who's Lidda? Haven't kept up with D&D for about a decade and a half, so possibly a chainmail warrior babe I've missed. :smalltongue:

By the way, this is probably the wrong place, but...
Did anyone else notice that on the new posters the Oracle is shown on the EVIL poster? I'd always assumed he was neutral. Does this mean he may have lied..? :smallconfused:

I think Lidda is the female Halfling rouge from the 3.x PBHs.

[Blaznak]

Belkar at least is partly right = Deterrent is one of the four reasons given for criminal punishment.

Also, loved the " and three months later he was killed by a tiger" bit. Too funny!

[Pronounceable]

Belkar keeps getting better and better.

[Baidas Kebante]

Now that's just silly. Everybody knows that one plus two plus one plus one is six.

You're mistaken. It's one plus one plus two plus one.

[Darthteej]

Belkar...actually managed to reasonably figure out something about the philosophy of crime and punishment. Huh.

[Alysar]

Poster of Lidda

That was Awesome :smallbiggrin:

[Killer Angel]

"three months later, he was eaten by a tiger"... LOL :smallbiggrin:


Belkar appears to be scarier with a pebble than Riddick was with a teacup...

Funny how I thought exactly the same thing. :smallwink:

[Kish]

Great comic, and also liked the Stephen King reference, but who's Lidda? Haven't kept up with D&D for about a decade and a half, so possibly a chainmail warrior babe I've missed. :smalltongue:

By the way, this is probably the wrong place, but...
Did anyone else notice that on the new posters the Oracle is shown on the EVIL poster? I'd always assumed he was neutral. Does this mean he may have lied..? :smallconfused:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9295927&postcount=4

[Aerodynamik]

I like the reference to Lidda there. I wish they still used the default characters in 4e.

Great Comic!

[hajo]

I think Lidda is the female Halfling rouge from the 3.x PBHs.

Maybe this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cc/20000626c) Lidda :smallbiggrin:

[Abies]

You're mistaken. It's one plus one plus two plus one.

Even if you were correct, it would be one plus two plus one plus one, not one plus one plus two plus one...

[HalfTangible]

... i don't get the title joke. Possibly because my first thought was 'Elan's running while holding something'

[Terbovus]

Heh, appears everyone else already noticed. :smallredface:

[Belsirk]

it's me or the halfling on giant's world aren't exactly good guys by nature?

Anyway... the worst part... Belkar don't need wait for someone drop the soap :smalleek:

[rewinn]

... i don't get the title joke. Possibly because my first thought was 'Elan's running while holding something'I think the title's not a huge belly laugh, but a smirk at the fact that a rock can be ruled superior to at least one bladed weapon.

Concerning Belkar's disturbingly accurate-in-the-real-world comments in the penultimate and last panels, keep in mind EoB is Lawful Evil.

[Trixie]

Even if you were correct, it would be one plus two plus one plus one, not one plus one plus two plus one...

Three posts, and yet no one caught it isn't six yet :P

[krko]

Three posts, and yet no one caught it isn't six yet :P

Or you know, everybody except you gets the sarcasm... Unless this post is some kind of meta-sarcasm about not getting sarcasm.

[Shale]

Watch Clue.

[Acero]

You know its a good day when it starts with a new strip.

Kibosh is an awesome word (http://www.cracked.com/article_18394_6-slang-terms-with-surprisingly-badass-origins.html)

[Grumman]

Maybe this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cc/20000626c) Lidda :smallbiggrin:
I'm more inclined to think it's the Lidda from page 116 of Dragon #359. You know the one I'm talking about... :smalltongue:

[Scarlet Knight]

Posters of Lidda
Belkar knows what's up. :smallcool:

And it's Belkar! :smallwink:

So many great lines! Well, done , Giant.

[Mike_the_Mystic]

You guy's forgot to carry the seven! WHY?

I wouldn't want to go up against a halfling with a pebble either, getting eaten by a tiger three months later isn't cool yo!:smalleek:

[SensFan]

I think the title's not a huge belly laugh, but a smirk at the fact that a rock can be ruled superior to at least one bladed weapon.
I'm quite sure it is actually referring to the popular game of Rock-Paper-Scissors.

[Baidas Kebante]

Or you know, everybody except you gets the sarcasm... Unless this post is some kind of meta-sarcasm about not getting sarcasm.

Actually, it's a reference to the movie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clue_%28film%29) Clue (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Film/Clue). Which if you haven't seen yet, you really should.

[danielmayer]

Congratulations for definetely one of the best full-page-gags ever!
"three-months-later" and "a hafling with a PEBBLE" are simply priceless and a great homage to any Players' Handbook-Edition and race description.
Thanks Giant, I just had between two difficult meetings a great laugh and got some astonished faces in front of me... :smallbiggrin:

[pendell]

This strip actually freaked me out for a single moment. I thought that it could be Belkar's time then I realised that is ridiculous because Belkar is awesome.

Long live the sexy shoeless god of war! :belkar:

The halfling who butchered who knows how many hobgoblins in the battle of Azure City isn't going to be done in by a mob of nameless low-level mooks. If those men had gone on to attack Belkar, I suspect he would have killed them all in a variety of humiliating ways.

If Belkar is killed in combat, it'll have to be either his follow OOTS or some named high-level character like Xykon or Redcloak.

*Snicker* Glad to see Belkar is a keen student of human nature. He's hilarious.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Can someone explain the subtext in this one for me? I could probably dig it up if I poked around on Wikipedia for a while, but I'm lazy. :smallbiggrin:

Not only a rock-paper-scissors reference, but possibly also a reference to Rich's very own Halfling Rock-Skipping Champion (http://http://www.giantitp.com/articles/CsORDNEyp2GRLIhacLj.html) by the prisoners.

[Themrys]

Anyway... the worst part... Belkar don't need wait for someone drop the soap :smalleek:

I never understood that "drop the soap" thing anyway. Evil people, in general, don't wait for their victim to provide a (bad) excuse for them to attack.

The fact that Belkar is able to come up with an explanation of how he helps "maintain the structure of civilisation" should make people worry whether their law system is okay...if it weren't an lawful evil system anyway.

[herrhauptmann]

EDIT: And the answer to how many bonuses he gets with that rock is: +3.
+1 For size, +1 (for the racial +2 dex at character creation), and +1 for thrown/slung weapon.
Using parenthesis can be very important, even while using straight addition.
And screw the bonuses, Belkar is what, 13th level, higher? V and Durkon should be around 13th just based on spells, and the party is all within the same level or so, minus XP lost/gained by their long separation.
He doesn't need that +3 to hit a bunch of guys who are all wearing loincloths. I'm not sure how much damage he could get out of a single pebble hit, but a halfling skiprock could probably bounce between 2 of the prisoners enough times to kill a typical second level character.

Posters of Lidda, took me a minute to remember her...

[pasko77]

Lidda is the sexiest halfling EVAR.

[Theodoric]

Ah, yes, the legendary halfling skill of lethal rock-throwing. The most interesting bit of the first chapter of The Lord of the Ring. (or was the prologue?)

[zimmerwald1915]

Ah, yes, the legendary halfling skill of lethal rock-throwing. The most interesting bit of the first chapter of The Lord of the Ring. (or was the prologue?)
It was the prologue. Something about passing animals knowing to flee if a hobbit stooped for a stone.


Disturbingly, he has a point.
"You are sentenced to one day sharing a cell with Belkar" has more deterent value than "you are sentenced to death" - you might be able to appeal the death sentence.
ShinyDelusion agrees with you. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165348)

[Morph Bark]

That was a tidbit of fun in my day as usual, but I don't get all the references people apparently are seeing. Stephen King? Shawshank Redemption? Explanation please? :smallconfused:

[Grimly Feendish]

It was the prologue. Something about passing animals knowing to flee if a hobbit stooped for a stone.


Originally from the Hobbit, when Bilbo had to rescue the dwarves from the giant spiders of Mirkwood, he jobbed a lot of them with thrown stones. Admittedly having an ancient elvish dagger and the One Ring to go invisible with at times helped. I think Tolkien was making it clear in the prologue of LOTR that it wasn't just a skill of Mr Baggins, but that all hobbits were good at aiming.

[Shale]

That was a tidbit of fun in my day as usual, but I don't get all the references people apparently are seeing. Stephen King? Shawshank Redemption? Explanation please? :smallconfused:

In the Shawshank Redemption, which Stephen King wrote, Red covers his escape tunnel with a pin-up poster.

[brionl]

In the Shawshank Redemption, which Stephen King wrote, Red covers his escape tunnel with a pin-up poster.

Stephen King didn't come up with that bit, it's been used a zillion times before. I'll bet that in _The Count of Monte Cristo_ the old man covered up his escape tunnel with a poster of Marie Antoinette.

[hamishspence]

I never understood that "drop the soap" thing anyway. Evil people, in general, don't wait for their victim to provide a (bad) excuse for them to attack.

Depends on the type of "evil people". The PHB does suggest some evil people hurt others "if doing so is convenient" rather than actively seeking to hurt others.

So, there may be evildoers who always have some kind of excuse.

[DoctorJest]

I'll bet that in _The Count of Monte Cristo_ the old man covered up his escape tunnel with a poster of Marie Antoinette.

You'd lose that bet.

[Felecies]

wow... this has got to be my favorite strip in like 200 strips :smallbiggrin:

[Morph Bark]

In the Shawshank Redemption, which Stephen King wrote, Red covers his escape tunnel with a pin-up poster.

Ah. While I had seen the movie, I wasn't aware there was a book of it, nor did I get the reference (it's been quite a while since I've seen it, after all).

[RebelRogue]

Maybe this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cc/20000626c) Lidda :smallbiggrin:
Cha 8? No way! The Belkster don't have time for the fuglies!

[Icedaemon]

I had wondered why the halflings are considered deadly, as opposed to merely somewhat of a threat, when wielding stones. Given the prestige class that Mr Burlew had created, there is an obvious answer.

[FoE]

If Belkar really wanted to keep people from looking for his escape tunnel, he would cover it with a poster of Mialee. :smalltongue:

[Bongos]

I wonder if the halfling with a pebble might be a reference to the Halfling Rock Skipping Champion (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/CsORDNEyp2GRLIhacLj.html) class Rich created.

[Drow_Barrlemind]

This strip was so funny I had to register, just to comment.
(In fact, I was typing so fast I didn't realize I'd hit the r's twice instead of the t's. It's supposed to be "Drow Battlemind" not "Drow barrlemind". Is there a Drunken Psionics prestige class?)

Anywho, I just had to say, "Shawshank Redemption" wasn't the first thing I thought of after finishing reading this strip...

no, it was the mental image of Belkar standing in the food line, standing on another screaming innmate as the guards rushed in, yelling out over the roar of the other gladiators, er, inmates, bellowing "YOU DON'T SEEM TO UNDERSTAND! I'M NOT LOCKED IN HERE WITH YOU, YOU'RE LOCKED IN HERE WITH ME!!!!!!"

[unknownmercury]

Did it seem like Belkar's stubble was a bit more... pronounced, I guess? It might just be the almost bright orange against the brown and grey, but it looked like he actually had a good amount of hair on his head.

[Marnath]

Three posts, and yet no one caught it isn't six yet :P


Disturbingly, he has a point.
"You are sentenced to one day sharing a cell with Belkar" has more deterent value than "you are sentenced to death" - you might be able to appeal the death sentence.

EDIT: And the answer to how many bonuses he gets with that rock is: +3.
+1 For size, +1 for the racial +2 dex, and +1 for thrown/slung weapon.

I guess you didn't see his edit. :smallbiggrin:

[JonestheSpy]

Lidda is the sexiest halfling EVAR.

Lidda as drawn in the PHB and other venues is not a halfling. She is a short elf.

And then they made the actual elf chick look really weird and oogly. Go figure.

Loved the Shawshank Redemption reference. Far more interesting stuff out there to reference than Star Wars.

And are there really people here who don't understand what "don't drop the soap" refers to? Ah, innocence...

[Turalisj]

"Personally, I favor corporal punishment. Here, let me show you"


Dear god Rich, the fanshippers are going to be climbing all over this one :smalleek:

[thunderclan]

I thought for a second that the arena was going to run out of gladiators after Belkar pebbled them to death...Maybe later :smallsmile:

[Scarlet Knight]

Lidda is the sexiest halfling EVAR.

I say thee nay and submit for your imspection, Rosie Cotton:
http://browse.deviantart.com/?qh=&section=&q=rosie+cotton#/d2b4utn

[Adeptus]

Ah. bless you Giant :smile:

That brought back fond memories of Master of Magic, where an elite unit of hobbit slingers was something for all to hear. If they had mithril or adamantium slingstones the hail cut down knights like a machine gun. Good times :belkar:

[Ceric]

Edit: Also, did anyone else notice that the gladiator leading the disgruntled mob is the same one standing up to Belkar in this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0736.html) strip.

Edit: Ok, maybe leading is to strong of a word more like the only one not cowering in fear.

:smalleek: I did not, in fact.

[Asthix]

great strip. Definite win. The only thing that could have been better is if he had actually thrown the pebble.

Also, strange thought. I got the notion after reading Belkar's excellent justification for social reform (and others lately showing the 'positive' benefits of his actions) that in the event of his death, he might not end up in the afterlife he thought. It'd be hilarious if he materialized to "Welcome to true neutral afterlife!" and got all pissed, or tried to bluff his way in and mess stuff up.

Also I favor corporal punishment. Here let me show you. (Yep. It works)

[King of Nowhere]

I wonder if the gladiator who stood up to belkar could have some bigger part in the comic. He seems a good guy (get pissed at belkar when he stole bread from someone else), and seems more... something (I don't know exactly what) that other gladiators.

I had the tougth that he may be ian starshine, but he's too young for that.

[Lemur Bear]

I was definitely smirking at the deterrent explanation seeing as no one ever leaves so no one would know how terrible the inside of the prison is. It's not like they get visitors or anything. Occasional sending if the gladiator to be was at a point where he knew a high enough level wizard/sorcerer or had family who could afford a sending spell. Somewhat poignant logic...but corporal punishment it is.

[The Pilgrim]

Even if you were correct, it would be one plus two plus one plus one, not one plus one plus two plus one...

Just fire the revolver.

And aim for the chandelier.

[The Pilgrim]

Lidda is the sexiest halfling EVAR.

Despite having an official charisma score of 8.

[archon_huskie]

I was definitely smirking at the deterrent explanation seeing as no one ever leaves so no one would know how terrible the inside of the prison is. It's not like they get visitors or anything. Occasional sending if the gladiator to be was at a point where he knew a high enough level wizard/sorcerer or had family who could afford a sending spell. Somewhat poignant logic...but corporal punishment it is.

That's why if you are friends with a wizard, you let him tatoo an emergency level 1 spell or two on your back so you can escape later. Or if you are a wizard, on your own skin. Read it, memorize it, and use your magic to unlock the door, cast sending to your allies, or if you don't mind having a large and strange tattoo all over, cast Teleport.

Now you are free to tell everyone how awful being in prison with Belkar is.

[Geno9999]

I lol'd when the prisoners went all scared at :belkar: w/ pebble as if he was holding a gun.:smallbiggrin:

[KoboldRevenge]

If anyone finds some paper he's screwed. :smallsmile:

[brionl]

You'd lose that bet.

That was in the nature of you what call your hyperbole there. Regardless, Stephen King did not originate the "poster covering the escape route" bit.

[archon_huskie]

And oh, for everyone confused on what "it does beat Scissors" means


Rock, paper, scissors is the name of a game of chance. You play against another person. Each of you throws either rock (closed fist) scissors (the peace sign) or paper (open palm)

Winner is determined as follows
Rock smashes scissors
Scissors cut paper
Paper covers rock.

This is also the punch line to strip 424 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0424.html).

[shadowkiller]

Belkar comments that human countries put people in jail, does that imply that halfling countries don't use jails. If they don't is that how Belkar got away with his chaotic evilness while growing up?

[pendell]

I was definitely smirking at the deterrent explanation seeing as no one ever leaves so no one would know how terrible the inside of the prison is. It's not like they get visitors or anything. Occasional sending if the gladiator to be was at a point where he knew a high enough level wizard/sorcerer or had family who could afford a sending spell. Somewhat poignant logic...but corporal punishment it is.

That's why the arena is a public spectacle. Bring the whole family to the gladiatorial games! See blood and limbs hacked off! And by the way, all these people wound up here for breaking the law. If you break the law, this is what happens to you!

There's a certain kind of mentality, common among adolescents, where they won't think and won't listen but will see. The entire Gladiatorial system serves as a public example and visceral warning about the dangers of breaking the law. It also relieves boredom and generates revenue through ticket sales and concessions. All the way round it's a win for the Empire of Blood.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[sasafrazz]

HES GOT A PEBBLE!!!!! :thog:

[plainsfox]

Belkar comments that human countries put people in jail, does that imply that halfling countries don't use jails. If they don't is that how Belkar got away with his chaotic evilness while growing up?

"There may be no Halfling lands"-Belkar panel 6

I think that, like in most settings, halflings have their communities within other societies.

[shadowkiller]

"There may be no Halfling lands"-Belkar panel 6

I think that, like in most settings, halflings have their communities within other societies.

He says "there may be no halfling lands here" which I took to mean on the western continent, not in the world as a whole.

[Ron Miel]

Lidda is the sexiest halfling EVAR.

Nah, that would be Queen Clover Firelight.

[seraine]

I don't get the eaten by a tiger 3 months later.Can someone explain?

[Kish]

I don't get the eaten by a tiger 3 months later.Can someone explain?
One person was hit by a rock thrown by a halfling, and his/her cousin was eaten by a tiger later. Logically, this is a coincidence, but the prisoner is treating them as linked--i.e., halflings are so deadly with pebbles that they can make tigers eat your nowhere-near, uninvolved family members.

[Knaight]

One person was hit by a rock thrown by a halfling, and his/her cousin was eaten by a tiger later. Logically, this is a coincidence, but the prisoner is treating them as linked--i.e., halflings are so deadly with pebbles that they can make tigers eat your nowhere-near, uninvolved family members.

The language used allows that interpretation and the one where the cousin was hit, then the cousin was devoured (less proper in a grammatical sense, but still in serious use) by the tiger. Meaning a touch of death type of effect that may extend to someone else, using big furry felines.

[mootoall]

You know its a good day when it starts with a new strip.

Kibosh is an awesome word (http://www.cracked.com/article_18394_6-slang-terms-with-surprisingly-badass-origins.html)


Actually, it's a reference to the movie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clue_%28film%29) Clue (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Film/Clue). Which if you haven't seen yet, you really should.

Dear god, we've already been linked to both cracked and tvtropes. We won't escape (http://xkcd.com/609/) alive ...

[The Succubus]

I heard a halfling wiped out AN ENTIRE VILLAGE just by throwing a pebble! Admittedly, most of the work was done by the avalanche.

:smalleek:

[Beorn080]

Here I thought dwarves had the monopoly with improbable thrown ballistics. Glad to see halflings are getting in on it too.

[Acero]

Dear god, we've already been linked to both cracked and tvtropes. We won't escape (http://xkcd.com/609/) alive ...

Dude, you caught me on my own link.

One moment it was halflings and rocks, the next I was learning about MCMAP

[AxeD]

Nice, a possible reference to the "Halfling Rock-Skipping Champion" (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/CsORDNEyp2GRLIhacLj.html) template that Rich made.

[The Pilgrim]

If anyone finds some paper he's screwed. :smallsmile:

Oddly enough, he has been screwed for not having papers.

[Shale]

It makes complete sense - if everybody's in prison for not having papers, then a rock is invincible.

[geekwraith]

It makes complete sense - if everybody's in prison for not having papers, then a rock is invincible.

Win. Pure, made-my-face-hurt win.


Incidentally, when Belkar picked up the pebble and everyone freaked, I had a line from an old, old, old movie pop into my head: "Help! There's a peck here with an acorn POINTED at me!" Bonus geek points to anyone who recognizes it without googling. :smalltongue:

[Scarlet Knight]

The only movie I know with pecks is Willow...

[CoffeeIncluded]

ShinyDelusion agrees with you. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165348)

:smallbiggrin: I loved that one. And this comic.

[Hallavast]

Hmm... this may be an insight into Belkar's worldview. See, being an evil little bastard, he knows evil when he sees it. He is able to clearly see the evil inherent in statism. A criminal mind is the best judge of crime, after all. But Belkar can't truly appreciate the brilliant scam that is the state, because he is both jealous that he didn't come up with it first, and frequently an enemy of almost any state he comes into contact with (meaning he's not part of the semi-secret evil club). Thus, his predisposition to anarchy. Marvellous comic.

:smalltongue:

[Tobimaro]

Halfling awesomeness is awesome! And the last panel is made of pure win! :smallsmile:

[Ted The Bug]

HES GOT A PEBBLE!!!!! :thog:

My thoughts exactly. Glad to see I'm not alone in my reaction.

[Whyareall]

Oddly enough, he has been screwed for not having papers.

YYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHH HHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[fwiffo]

I don't get the eaten by a tiger 3 months later.Can someone explain?

I get spam like that from time to time (usually in chain letters). "Bob did not forward this letter to five friends and next Saturday his truck caught on fire. Meanwhile, Jill forwarded it to ten people and a week later got a big raise from her boss".

[blunk]

In the Shawshank Redemption, which Stephen King wroteWelllll... pretty much right (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rita_Hayworth_and_Shawshank_Redemption).

[Boogastreehouse]

You're mistaken. It's one plus one plus two plus one.


Even if you were correct, it would be one plus two plus one plus one, not one plus one plus two plus one...


Actually, it's a reference to the movie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clue_%28film%29) Clue (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Film/Clue). Which if you haven't seen yet, you really should.

Just thought I'd post the actual exchange for the record ('cause it's, y'know, brilliant):

Wadsworth: The game's up, Scarlet. There are no more bullets left in that gun.

Miss Scarlet: Oh, come on, you don't think I'm gonna fall for that old trick?

Wadsworth: It's not a trick. There was one shot at Mr. Boddy in the Study; two for the chandelier; two at the Lounge door and one for the singing telegram.

Miss Scarlet: That's not six.

Wadsworth: One plus two plus two plus one.

Miss Scarlet: Uh-uh, there was only one shot that got the chandelier. That's one plus two plus *one* plus one.

Wadsworth: Even if you were right, that would be one plus one plus two plus one, not one plus *two* plus one plus one.

Miss Scarlet: Okay, fine. One plus two plus one... Shut up! The point is, there is one bullet left in this gun and guess who's gonna get it!

[Kareasint]

Keep in mind that even though they do not know Belkar is a pretty high level Ranger/Barbarian, they will figure it out when the base attack bonuses are added into the attack roll with that pebble.

He may be just as bad as Riddick with a teacup.

[The Pilgrim]

Just thought I'd post the actual exchange for the record ('cause it's, y'know, brilliant):

You might as well warp it in spoiler tags. You don't want to ruin the film to 33% of its potential new viewers.

[Draxonicar]

Ahhh... Halflings and their thrown objects.

Love the "Three months later he was eaten by a tiger!" logic that halflings curse people.:smallwink:

[CelestialMagpie]

Win. Pure, made-my-face-hurt win.


Incidentally, when Belkar picked up the pebble and everyone freaked, I had a line from an old, old, old movie pop into my head: "Help! There's a peck here with an acorn POINTED at me!" Bonus geek points to anyone who recognizes it without googling. :smalltongue:



That would be the classic movie "Willow" - and imagine the damage Belkar would do with one of Willow's acorns *shudder* :smallwink:

[Greenknight 007]

It appears Belkar is reading Mr Feuerbach...

[derfenrirwolv]

To hit:

~14 levels of full bab. +2 halfling dex. +? from dex, +1 halfling racial, +1 size

To damage.

1d2 (small rock) ,+1 precise shot. +3 strength, +6 species enemy bonus (all life)

[The MunchKING]

Despite having an official charisma score of 8.

doesn't that mean not the she's unattractive, she just doesn't know how to use it, and be forward and get what she wants through her looks/charisma??

[MonkeyBusiness]

Hilarious reference to The Shawshank Redemption. Not to mention the pebble ... :smalltongue:

Thanks for bringing a smile to my face on a day otherwise marked by headaches (literal and figurative).

Monkey

[Querzis]

doesn't that mean not the she's unattractive, she just doesn't know how to use it, and be forward and get what she wants through her looks/charisma??

Yes. Its also totally possible to have 18 charisma and be really ugly. Xykon is the most charismatic character in the comic despite being a skeleton after all.

[The Pilgrim]

doesn't that mean not the she's unattractive, she just doesn't know how to use it, and be forward and get what she wants through her looks/charisma??

Still, doesn't helps.

Also, being "sexy" implies you somewhat know how to use your physical atractiveness.

[Hallavast]

doesn't that mean not the she's unattractive, she just doesn't know how to use it, and be forward and get what she wants through her looks/charisma??

Meh. Could mean either.

[Morchaint]

omg. I loled so much I about pissed myself.

a. eaten by a tiger 3 months later OMG WT# thats hilarious.

b. belkar has a valid point about deterrance being a part of this anti crime scenario.

c. I want to have a big poster of a halfling with a rock in his hand with an equal sign to a tiger that just ate something. lol

[sockmonkey]

Belkar's point is a half-truth and thus mostly BS. Sure something like having the death penalty for every crime would be quite a deterrent, but it does more damage than a higher crime rate would. Especially since the courts aren't perfect and people can get falsely accused, framed, or provoked into doing something dumb.

[Swordpriest]

Belkar's point is a half-truth and thus mostly BS. Sure something like having the death penalty for every crime would be quite a deterrent, but it does more damage than a higher crime rate would. Especially since the courts aren't perfect and people can get falsely accused, framed, or provoked into doing something dumb.

Or can just make a mistake. Forget your papers at home once when you're running out for groceries, pay for it with the rest of your life.

And, if you're already going to be executed for anything that goes wrong legally, how is being locked up with a halfling you've never heard of before pending your execution going to more of a deterrant than the execution itself?

Heck, the potential "lawbreakers" don't even know that Belkar exists. Maybe if the EoB handed out copies of OotS comics and put up posters saying "we'll lock you up with Belkar," there might be slight additional deterrent effect. But as it stands, his existence is totally unknown to the population at large at this point.

I'd say his statement is 100% B.S. -- he's just trying to put what he perceives as a "law and order" slant on his detestable behavior, because he thinks that he's being clever and faking character development that way, but is really just ticking Roy off. :smallwink:

[littlekKID]

I'd say his statement is 100% B.S. -- he's just trying to put what he perceives as a "law and order" slant on his detestable behavior, because he thinks that he's being clever and faking character development that way, but is really just ticking Roy off. :smallwink:

maybe...but he always had a problem with geting to the basic of the human law system (remember the scene with the jailer in OtOoPC?)

[calar]

Lol, this was a good one. The Dnd rule jokes are always the best.

[HandofShadows]

Belkar's point is a half-truth and thus mostly BS. Sure something like having the death penalty for every crime would be quite a deterrent, but it does more damage than a higher crime rate would. Especially since the courts aren't perfect and people can get falsely accused, framed, or provoked into doing something dumb.

This has actually been show to be true in history. The Chinese Emporer Chin had very harsh punishments. But it all kind blew up when a bunch of troops where late because of bad weather. The punishment for being late was death, so what did they have to loose if the rebelled? After that things when downhill into civil war and chaos.

[Hague]

Qin, not Chin...

The Rock Throwing Champion is a pretty neat PrC and I'd love to have a character in one of my campaigns use it. Belkar doesn't need to be good with a pebble, he can make intimidate checks with circumstance bonuses based on the belief that all halflings are ridiculously good with throwing rocks.

[Stabber]

Belkar......kicks......butt!

[willpell]

Despite having an official charisma score of 8.

Low Charisma doesn't necessarily mean you don't look attractive, it just means you don't STAY attractive very long. Maybe Lidda is easy on the eyes in a still picture, but you try taking her out on a date and she'll be burping the alphabet and scratching her pits and blurting out embarrasing comments about your wardrobe until you end going home with the half-orc waiter instead.

[The Pilgrim]

Low Charisma doesn't necessarily mean you don't look attractive.

Actually, Yes, it means that. Among other things.

Charisma doesn't necessary means you are beautiful, but it definitely means you look attractive.

There are ways to look attractive beyond being beautiful, but being beautiful definitely IS a way to look attractive.

So, if you are "the sexiest" something in the World, that doesn't necessary implies you have a high Cha score. But it rules out that it can be so low to fall in the "well below average" territory.

...

BTW, just plain game mechanics: A Halfling with Cha 18 has a +4 bonus to a seduction roll(1). A Halfling with Cha 8 has a -1. Guess who wins in a "who is more sexy" contest.

(1) Some players use Bluff for seduction. Others use Diplomacy. Both are governed by Charisma.

[Petrocorus]

Dear god, we've already been linked to both cracked and tvtropes. We won't escape (http://xkcd.com/609/) alive ...

OotS will ruin your life? :smallbiggrin:



. He is able to clearly see the evil inherent in statism.
:smalltongue:

Go ahead, explain what inherent evil is in statism?

[sabremeister]

Heck, the potential "lawbreakers" don't even know that Belkar exists. Maybe if the EoB handed out copies of OotS comics and put up posters saying "we'll lock you up with Belkar," there might be slight additional deterrent effect. But as it stands, his existence is totally unknown to the population at large at this point.

I'd say his statement is 100% B.S. -- he's just trying to put what he perceives as a "law and order" slant on his detestable behavior, because he thinks that he's being clever and faking character development that way, but is really just ticking Roy off. :smallwink:

Belkar doesn't say that the deterrent is being locked up with him, he says, "anything that makes the prison experience more miserable," and then follows it with an example (himself and his behaviour). If he wasn't such an egotist, he might have phrased it as, "such as a tough guy with no morals bullying everyone else". Or something completely disassociated with Belkar and OotS that was unpleasant would have been just as valid an illustration of the principle, such as building the prison immediately downwind of a tannery and slaughterhouse. In the last panel, Belkar is not saying that the prison system is a deterrent to crime because he is currently an inmate, he's saying it is a deterrent to crime because there will always be jerks like him incarcerated.

But I do also think he's saying what he's saying to piss off Roy.

[Rev. George]

Charisma doesn't necessary means you are beautiful, but it definitely means you look attractive.


Well I know all you young whipper-snappers might think that way, and the new-fangled game books might say it now, but WAY back in the day the Man himself (Gary Gygax) wrote:

"Many persons have the sad misconception that charisma is merely physical attractiveness. This error is obvious to any person who considers the subject with perceptiveness. Charisma is a combination of physical appearance, persuasiveness, and personal magnetism. True charisma become evident when one considers such historic examples of Julius Caesar, Napoleon Bonaparte , and Adolf Hitler. Obviously these individuals did not have an 18 score on physical beauty..." Gary Gygax, Advanced Dungeons and Dragons: Dungeon Master's Guide Page 15

-+G

[planswalker]

Charisma doesn't necessary means you are beautiful, but it definitely means you look attractive.


Well I know all you young whipper-snappers might think that way, and the new-fangled game books might say it now, but WAY back in the day the Man himself (Gary Gygax) wrote:

"Many persons have the sad misconception that charisma is merely physical attractiveness. This error is obvious to any person who considers the subject with perceptiveness. Charisma is a combination of physical appearance, persuasiveness, and personal magnetism. True charisma become evident when one considers such historic examples of Julius Caesar, Napoleon Bonaparte , and Adolf Hitler. Obviously these individuals did not have an 18 score on physical beauty..." Gary Gygax, Advanced Dungeons and Dragons: Dungeon Master's Guide Page 15

-+G

very totally a QFT!

amen!

Preach it brother!

[The Pilgrim]

{scrubbed}

[Knaight]

Might want to tone down the hostility a bit, its hilarious in parts, but there is a bit much of it.

[Kareasint]

In older AD&D versions optional rules, we had an additional score in addition to the basic six scores:

Comeliness - physical attractiveness. The score was based off of Charisma. Thus, it was possible to completely beautiful (high comeliness) but socially repulsive (low charisma). The reverse is also very possible (Gygax's examples).

[Dilvish]

And ofcourse, if Belkar used that pebble as an improvised light melee weapon, he wouldn't provoke attacks of opportunity while his harassers would.

Anyway, nice one.

I first read harassers as hairdressers. Might make sense for Belkar in a really wierd way. ;)

[Rev. George]

I have played D&D since first edition, so that remark is unnecesary.

Error #213- Personal attack not found.
If you are recieving this error, your version of humor is missing or out of date. Please consider upgrading to humor 2.0.

Seriously- people take crap WAY too personal on the internet. Most people would agree with that statement, however many of the self-same persons blow up over trivial things. As a general rule, the world would be a more civil place if people, when presented with the question as to whether someone was being offensive, acted under the assumption that they were not, rather than that they were. Not only would retaliatory vitriol be reduced, but the people who get a rise from the response they receive after being offensive might not get that rise.

Just something to think about....

-+G

[Knaight]

The response seemed like more joshing to me, not a serious attack. Really, it was hilarious. Between the original last line "But she still manages to lead the Cheerleaders and have half the school -you included- drooling after her. " and the part that has since been scrubbed it made a wonderful faux-insult and general homage to snarkiness. It just came off as a bit too hostile due to text as a medium and the aformentioned tendency to take insults as if they were actually meant -which happens quite a bit off the internet as well.

{Scrubbed}

[Marnath]

I'd respond as well, but I've never seen anyone dare to add stuff back to a scrubbed post, so I will just say that the thought of Belkar having hairdressers is amusing. :smalltongue:

[Rev. George]

{Scrubbed}

Now that was funny...

[Knaight]

Now that was funny...
I'm just waiting for someone to take it seriously. I didn't put a smiley after it after all. :smalltongue:

[The Pilgrim]

The response seemed like more joshing to me, not a serious attack. Really, it was hilarious.

Thanks. But I was indeed angry by some unrelated real-life issues and I let myself go loose. Therefore I got a dish of well-deserved bad karma. I'll digest it and let's move on. I hate to kill an interesting debate with rude manners, so let me atone by returning to it from a more civic perspective.


CHARISMA AND PHYSICAL ATTRACTIVENESS, THE DEBATE

Chapter I: Sources

Let's begin with some quotes about what Charisma means. First, my last non-scrubbed post:

Charisma doesn't necessary means you are beautiful, but it definitely means you look attractive.

There are ways to look attractive beyond being beautiful, but being beautiful definitely IS a way to look attractive.

Maybe my point would be better understood if I had phrased it as "you are attractive" and not as "you look attractive". Maybe.

Now Gary Gygax's quote:
"Many persons have the sad misconception that charisma is merely physical attractiveness. This error is obvious to any person who considers the subject with perceptiveness. Charisma is a combination of physical appearance, persuasiveness, and personal magnetism. True charisma become evident when one considers such historic examples of Julius Caesar, Napoleon Bonaparte , and Adolf Hitler. Obviously these individuals did not have an 18 score on physical beauty..."

Now the definition of Charisma in 3rd Edition:
Charisma measures a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness. This ability represents actual strength of personality, not merely how one is perceived by others in a social setting.

Finally, the wikipedia definition of Charisma:
Charisma (Greek "kharisma," meaning "gift," "of/from/favored by God/the divine") is a trait found in persons whose personalities are characterized by a personal charm and magnetism (attractiveness), along with innate and powerfully sophisticated abilities of interpersonal communication and persuasion. One who is charismatic is said to be capable of using their personal being, rather than just speech or logic alone, to interface with other human beings in a personal and direct manner, and effectively communicate an argument or concept to them.

Notice that there is no contradiction between my predicament, Gygax's quote, the 3rd Edition definition, or a standard, non-D&D definition of Charisma.

It can be sorted as:
- Charisma is your ability to attract someone to your camp, not by reasoning, but by strenght of personality.
- Charisma is not only about your physical attractiveness.
- But phyisical attractiveness is part of the equation.

So, if your looks are not particulary destacable, you need to make up for it with other traits, like force of personality. But if you are cute, that's about it, you automatically get some Charisma.


Chapter II: Charisma and the Order of the Stick comic

Let's analize how charisma is reflected in this comic strip. I'll use the "Class and Geekery (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131219)" thread as a guide to the character's charisma score.

Good Guys:
- Roy is the leader of the OOTS. He is credited to have decent charisma and good leadership skills. It's reflected in the comic in his ability to keep the Party in order, specially keeping Belkar under check (something Haley was unable to do). Still, he is not the guy with more Charisma in the party, that title belongs to...
- Elan, who has never shown much skill in diplomacy or leadership, but is blonde and cute. End of the line.

Bad Guys:
- Xykon is credited to have a helluva charisma. As a skeleton, his "physical attractiveness" is zero (except for weirdos like Tsukiko). However, each time he appears on screen, everyone drools over his wit and charm. His charisma is reflected in the stip by his ruthless, simple buy yet elegant way to deal with everything.
- Sabine: As a Succubus her base Cha is 26, almost as high as Xykon's. Has never shown any special skill to seduce or lead in the strip. But she needs not to. Succubus. Boobs. End of the Line.
- Samantha: Spoiled child and quite unbearable personality that leads to her own father betraying her. Once again, her Cha stat on the 20's is reflected just by her good set of... perky eyes.

Shappire Guard:
- Miko: Universally depised by everyone, including her fellow paladins, she still has a Charisma of at least 14. Roy drools over her when they first meet because she was physically attractive. Despite the fact that she attempedto kill him, Roy needs a lot of strips and character developement to finally come to depise her.
- O-Chul: We all love him, but Charisma is his dump stat. He, thus, has scars, a quick method to mark someone as not being particulary physically attractive. (1)

(1) I'll not deny that O-Chul's scars are there probably to make him look cooler. But remember that in most RPGs an "horrible scars" trait means "negative modifier to Cha, dude". So it's sorta a "two for one" deal

NPC's :
- Julia: Provides perhaps the best example in comic for the "I'm pretty so I don't need anything else to force others pay attention to me" predicament. She doesn't shows a lot of leadership skill or interesting personality, but she is still credited as the "most popular girl in school" (Pompey, #256). When she fails to make Durkon pay attention to her (#352), she resorts to her ultimate weapon: "Look, Boobs". And is shocked when it fails. (Note that Durkon doesn't pays attention to her because he is communing with Thor, not because her logic was at fault).
- Julio Scoundrèl: Has got it both. While we don't have direct in-comic evidence about his Charisma, we know that the application of his Cha mod to his attack rolls get's him into the Top 100 Swordsmen of the Century (rank 32). He has got the looks ("Sexiest man alive" until they raised Valentino), the personality, the leadership, the grace...

So, in short:
- Characters who are charismatic but don't have destacable looks, have to resort to other traits to justify his Charisma score. They are charismatic because of his force of personality, and the Giant needs to reflect it in comic.
- Characters who are charismatic AND have destacable looks, don't need anything else. They are cute, thus they need to provide no further evidence to justify his charisma.
- And if they got both, then they are Charisma Incarnate.

Chapter III: The source of it all

This discussion comes basically from my comment on Lidda being supposed to be "the most sexy halfling in the world" despite having a Charisma score of 8.

Let's face it. Lidda was not supposed to look attractive. If she does in the Art, it's just due to Athon's Algoritm of Female Adverture Drawing, which The Giant describes masterfully in stip #711 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0711.html).

My comment, thus, was a sarcastic joke about this contradiction.


Epiloge: Gary Gygax was not Always Right.

Gary Gygax was wrong to put Julius Caesar in the "charismatic, but ugly" club (among Napoleon "shorty" Bonaparte or Adolf "funny moustache" Hitler). Caesar was quite handsome; he was a Ladies' favorite and (ripping from the Wikipedia) "Suetonius describes Caesar as "tall of stature with a fair complexion, shapely limbs, a somewhat full face, and keen black eyes."

This of course has little to do with the debate, except to point that even the most sage, loved, admired and never enough revered people were humans and could be wrong sometimes.

...

That's about it. Now you are free to quote-chop, misunderstand, hate, love, disagree, or just ignore it.

[Marnath]

Bad Guys:

- Sabine: As a Succubus her base Cha is 26, almost as high as Xykon's. Has never shown any special skill to seduce or lead in the strip. But she needs not to. Succubus. Boobs. End of the Line.
- Samantha: Spoiled child and quite unbearable personality that leads to her own father betraying her. Once again, her Cha stat on the 20's is reflected just by her good set of... perky eyes.

Shappire Guard:
- Miko: Universally depised by everyone, including her fellow paladins, she still has a Charisma of at least 14. Roy drools over her when they first meet because she was physically attractive. Despite the fact that she attempedto kill him, Roy needs a lot of strips and character developement to finally come to depise her.
- O-Chul: We all love him, but Charisma is his dump stat. He, thus, has scars, a quick method to mark someone as not being particulary physically attractive. (1)
NPC's :
- Julia: Provides perhaps the best example in comic for the "I'm pretty so I don't need anything else to force others pay attention to me" predicament. She doesn't shows a lot of leadership skill or interesting personality, but she is still credited as the "most popular girl in school" (Pompey, #256). When she fails to make Durkon pay attention to her (#352), she resorts to her ultimate weapon: "Look, Boobs". And is shocked when it fails.

That's about it. Now you are free to quote-chop, misunderstand, hate, love, disagree, or just ignore it.

Thanks, I will do some of each of those things. :smallwink:
I bolded parts I fixed. His is masculine, hers is feminine.

[The Pilgrim]

Thanks, I will do some of each of those things. :smallwink:
I bolded parts I fixed. His is masculine, hers is feminine.

Thanks. Corrected. And added Julio Scoundrèl.