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RationalGoblin
2010-09-08, 10:06 PM
How would I go about making a non-stereotypical dwarf character? I hate the "Viking/Scottish, gruff, loves gold, ale, axes, and fighting, not necessarily in that order, mines and hates elves" dwarf that seemingly everyone makes. I love the Warhammer Fantasy Mesopotamian-like Chaos Dwarfs, and enjoy any non-stererotypical dwarves.

However, in most cases DMs have the normal dwarf as their basic dwarf society, and there's no changing that.

So how do I make a single non-stereotypical single dwarf, or if needed, small society? I'm leaning towards making a dwarven magic-user, so there's that.

Oh, and if you can, please make the non-normal dwarven concepts as generic as possible. I like to be able to use any character in any campaign I choose.

Tiki Snakes
2010-09-08, 10:12 PM
Dwarf-punk.
Loose robes, martial arts and head-shaving. Tired of the staid old customs of his people, our young rebel has taken deliberate directions to distance himself from how everyone sees his people and how his elders expect him to act.

He retains the essential toughness, stubborness and dedicated approach to things that his people are known for, but takes it in a very different (and to other dwarves, possibly inflamatory) directions.

Alternative, you have Dwarves like my old freeform game dwarf. He had been exiled when still young. He was a bow-using necromancer, kept in shape and was polite and well-spoken. He prefered wine to ale, fruit to meat, stuff like that.

gomipile
2010-09-08, 10:13 PM
For some reason this reminds me of Cheery Littlebottom from the Discworld series.

Urpriest
2010-09-08, 10:16 PM
For some reason this reminds me of Cheery Littlebottom from the Discworld series.

This: give your dwarf a chainmail skirt and lipstick, and put a bow in their beard for special occasions.

Tiki Snakes
2010-09-08, 10:17 PM
Or you could go double-bluff and base the Scottish Dwarves on more contemporary Scottish culture and situation, rather than the standard gruff 'Everything Dwarfy is better and perfect'. The idea of a scottish accented lady dwarf who just happens to have died hair and loose morals, or a Dwarf based on Franky Boyle... There's real possibility there.

Lapak
2010-09-08, 10:17 PM
Don't play a cleric. Don't play a frontline fighter. If you want to play against type, play the party face. Go high-CHA.

Make sure you that you use weapons that keep the enemy at a distance, and stay away from axes and hammers. Use a longspear.

Be clean-shaven. Be courteous. Be interested in the cultural history of other races. Don't go clownish; that's become more and more a dwarf thing lately.

So: be a polite, upstanding, free-spirited and cheerful bard, fascinated with the world at large and truly open-minded and adventurous at heart. Seek out the peoples of the world and find out what makes them tick. Have a smile and an intelligent sense of humor. Fight by inspiring your companions and playing the flanker, flitting around the edge of your battle-lines and harassing people with spear-jabs.

cupkeyk
2010-09-08, 10:18 PM
Tiki's example sounds like Grimgnaw from Neverwinter Nights.

My favorite non-stereotypical dwarf is Gisella, the bounty hunter from Kendermore. She shaves, she likes revealing clothing, although short, she is voluptuous. Sort of a flirt too. Very endearing.

herrhauptmann
2010-09-08, 10:27 PM
Tiki's example sounds like Grimgnaw from Neverwinter Nights.

Wasn't grimgnaw an evil monk who worshipped death in that game?
That doesn't really sound like a dwarf with dyed hair and loose morals. Which could sorta be this guy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0239.html)

TheThan
2010-09-08, 10:32 PM
A dwarf with a vow of abstinence, springs to mind. Though a vow of cleanliness (no beards, clean clothing etc) sounds about right. Also in my gaming group a vow of chastity would really make you stand out.

cupkeyk
2010-09-08, 10:36 PM
Loose robes, martial arts and head-shaving. Tired of the staid old customs of his people, our young rebel has taken deliberate directions to distance himself from how everyone sees his people and how his elders expect him to act.

I was referring to this one.

Swordgleam
2010-09-08, 11:17 PM
Instead of scottish, steal from another culture. Can you imagine a stereotypically french dwarf? How about spanish? Maybe canadian?


So: be a polite, upstanding, free-spirited and cheerful bard, fascinated with the world at large and truly open-minded and adventurous at heart. Seek out the peoples of the world and find out what makes them tick. Have a smile and an intelligent sense of humor. Fight by inspiring your companions and playing the flanker, flitting around the edge of your battle-lines and harassing people with spear-jabs.

So basically, be a slightly stockier-than-normal halfling?

Lapak
2010-09-08, 11:50 PM
Instead of scottish, steal from another culture. Can you imagine a stereotypically french dwarf? How about spanish? Maybe canadian?



So basically, be a slightly stockier-than-normal halfling?I don't typically think of halflings as particularly interested in learning about the outside world, but YMMV, certainly. I don't expect you'll find one with a two-handed reach weapon around every corner, either.

That said, a dwarf who acts like a halfing sure isn't acting like a dwarf.

Zeofar
2010-09-08, 11:52 PM
You could take one portion of Dwarven culture - Fine, well wrought craftsmanship - and apply it somewhere else. Rather than building dark, damp, complex mazes of city-mines and forges, they build finely designed Wizard's towers, temples, and other feats of architecture. They are philosophers, and they value self-development of opinion and mind; as such, their social system is not so rigid as typical Dwarves because it constantly gains new infusions of thoughts, ideas, and knowledge. They combine their love of architecture and ideas in what they consider the ultimate study for all prestigious, thinking Dwarves - Arcane magic. So too as their every room, window, arch, and pillar is perfectly made, they devise spells that only a "true Dwarven mind could cultivate." This trinity of ideals holds each other up: the architecture means that every ritual is held in the right space, every thread of magical energy flows perfectly in their world; this mastery of building inspires every Dwarf in his ideas as well. Their love of thinking leads them to new designs in form and function, both in spells and in construction. As each spell is created, it teaches its creator something about the nature of the world, and inspires every doctrine he creates. They translate the intricate magical fields and precise components of magic into intricate art and precise composition of form.

If stealing from any culture, as Swordgleam suggested, this would probably be stealing from the Greeks. I've taken a specific aspect of Dwarven culture to focus on because otherwise, there is nothing similar to anything Dwarfish about them beside stature, and no point in calling them Dwarves beside the desire to subvert their often cliche nature. Might this quite easily overlap with some interpretations of Elvish culture? Sure. But if the Elves are more nature-bound, it gives a different reason for the thin-limbed greenies to be "below" them, if Dwarves consider themselves at all superior. Can this overlap with some straight-up interpretations of Dwarves that are only slightly nonstandard? Suuuuure... I guess. Does this basically turn Dwarves into stereotypical Wizards? Well, maybe, but most cultures aren't completely composed of such high-minded stuff as this. But really, there are a lot of character cliches and you're going to run into one of them considering that there are many and they are all fairly broad.

Tiki Snakes
2010-09-09, 12:16 AM
Oh, if we're going for unusual Dwarven cultures, there's also my Sunday-DM's Persian / Pheonician Horse-Barbarian Dwarven Empire.
Calvary based expansionist above-ground military empire, fond of bright, clashing colours (Usually disgustingly vibrant purples and yellows) who literally drench everything in gold and bling.

The streets of their Holy Capitol were literally paved with actual gold, their walls adorned with actual gems. A thousand economists wept at the damage they must have done to that world's gold-based-economy, as the stuff must have been rendered worthless.
Amusingly enough their Emperor, possibly the most politically powerful entity in the entire setting, had as his throne a simple wooden stool.

Used a system of large teleportation circles to transport their military across their empire (The King's Road) and had a vaguely Pelor-type religious focus, all sun-themed and strongly anti-undead.

Hague
2010-09-09, 12:32 AM
The Akiak dwarves of Sarlona are pretty interesting. A group of dwarves that live with the contemporary enemies of dwarves, the duergar, and live in a communal society. Double-crossed and out of their homeland by the Riedrans, the Akiak dwarves are torn between their new lives and their old, both vengeful and guilty. Mindful of humans they accept the help of nation of nomadic, tribal Shifters.

Rixx
2010-09-09, 01:28 AM
Canadian accent.

ghost_warlock
2010-09-09, 01:39 AM
Giamo Casanunda (http://wiki.lspace.org/wiki/Giamo_Casanunda), the disc's second-greatest lover (but he tries harder).

http://wiki.lspace.org/uploads/5/58/Casanun1.jpg

Ravens_cry
2010-09-09, 01:48 AM
Canadian accent.
Depending on what part of Canada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newfoundland_English), that's fairly close to the Scottish stereotype. The whole aboot, eh, thing would be a good accent for gnomes, in my opinion.

Halaster
2010-09-09, 04:40 AM
I don't think it's necessary to go and turn the stereotype on it's head, because I think that looks too much like a stereotype in itself. The clean-shaven, well-spoken, wine-drinking dwarf is not in itself original, it's just the tired old stereotype inverted.

What I would think of is adding some aspect to the concept. Like, logical dwarves. Sort of short, bearded Vulcans with a spin:
- It's illogical to waste time on personal hygiene, so long as it doesn't harm anyone. Shaving, bathing and all are fine to prevent health problems, but beyond that detract from time for more serious issues.
- It's illogical to bother with politeness. Say what you mean and cut the sweet-talk, so that communication goes over efficiently. Again, saves time, avoids mistakes and makes everything so much easier.
- It's logical to value gold, metal, stone and the like, because of their lasting nature. Fleeting things like beauty can not be valued for objective reasons, thus are irrelevant.

You'd end up having a pretty ordinary dwarf, but for a very different reason, which will show in many of his actions. He will drink wine, provided it's cheaper than ale (usually won't be). He will use magic, if it's the best solution in a given situation. And so on.

Otherwise, try maritime dwarfs. Shipbuilding is a highly advanced craft and sailing and navigating are physical and mental challenges that the dwarfs might like. Take a slice out of 16th-18th century Dutch culture: austere and money-oriented enough to fit part of the stereotype, but mercantile and seaborne rather than mining-based and cave-dwelling.

kamikasei
2010-09-09, 04:51 AM
Take a look at the webcomic Guilded Age. Their dwarf is fairly non-stereotypical, yet could plausibly be from a "standard" dwarven society.

How did the dwarves in your game end up the way they did? (What are the historical roots of their society?) Make a branch which had different influences.

Given the con bonus, a subrace of "plains dwarves" who hunt by endurance could be entertainingly odd. Nomadic dwarves who, instead of mining out vast underground lairs, just reshape all rock above ground level within their territory in to shelters and monuments. Dwarves who live in symbiosis with some other race such as kobolds, gnomes, or hobgoblins in the service of a higher power, such as a dynasty of dragons.

Zombimode
2010-09-09, 05:27 AM
Playing something out of type is easy. You just have mix things togther that are no expected to mix.
But thats cheap and the question arises if your are still playing a dwarf by that time (you have to ask: what counts as "playing a dwarf"? Is the word "dwarf" on your character sheet enough?).

The harder but, at least for me, far more satisfying way would be to take those superficial character/culture traits and build a sophisticated and deep character/culture around them. In this way you could play a dwarf that is more than a word on your character sheet, but is not stereotypical because he is not superficial. Because just being an accumulation of superficial character traits is the real stereotype for dwarfes.

This is also the point which Rich plays with in OotS 602 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0602.html). Its the expectation that any dwarf who not violently plays against type must be one of those swallow figures who is nothing more than a package of traits that all dwarfes share. And in this way beeing ignorant about the sophisticated character of the person in question (in this case Durkon).

Malbordeus
2010-09-09, 05:32 AM
if you like the aztecy feel, you can play a dwarf from foreign lands, or even from another plane if you make your backstory sufficiently accident prone.

or an escaped slave type one - the giants of xendrik in eberon are pretty flavourtastic, you could replace giant with "dwarf" and say there was a liturgical mix-up in the translated history :P

for clases... be a warlock going bloodmagus

Haarkla
2010-09-09, 06:28 AM
How would I go about making a non-stereotypical dwarf character? I hate the "Viking/Scottish, gruff, loves gold, ale, axes, and fighting, not necessarily in that order, mines and hates elves" dwarf that seemingly everyone makes. I love the Warhammer Fantasy Mesopotamian-like Chaos Dwarfs, and enjoy any non-stererotypical dwarves.

However, in most cases DMs have the normal dwarf as their basic dwarf society, and there's no changing that.

So how do I make a single non-stereotypical single dwarf, or if needed, small society? I'm leaning towards making a dwarven magic-user, so there's that.

Oh, and if you can, please make the non-normal dwarven concepts as generic as possible. I like to be able to use any character in any campaign I choose.
I agree with Zombimode. I would go for a dwarven Bard. A lorekeeper of the dwarven people, reciting the epics of the dwarven heroes and searching for lost relics of the dwarven race. He would play a concertina, and a natural 1 on a perform check means his concertina gets trapped in his beard. I would also play him as something of a buffoon. In my opinion a very dwarvish character but far from the stereotypical dwarven fighter.

Kobold-Bard
2010-09-09, 06:39 AM
Dwarven tailor who ties his beard into a ponytail. Take leadership and have his cohort be a halfling who stands on his shoulders so they can get chest/arm measurements.

His weapon is a quaterstaff refluffed as a metre ruler, and the halfling uses a sling to chuck tailor's chalk at enemies.

Ernir
2010-09-09, 07:36 AM
I am playing with a guy who had his dwarf take VoP.

I tend to forget he's even a dwarf. :smalleek:

Amphetryon
2010-09-09, 07:38 AM
Aztec-inspired Dwarf Binder. Do eet! Do eet!

Toliudar
2010-09-09, 08:19 AM
Egyptian flavoured dwarf mason/rogue who is obsessed with the creation - or infiltration - of the perfect tomb.

Dwarf druid whose claustrophobia drove him above-ground and into an enjoyment of open spaces.

Dwarf swashbuckling pirate who uses a pet Delver to pull a vehicle behind. An underground Jack Sparrow!

Rastafarian artificer with dreadlock beard who gets tremendous joy from the creation and use of his infusions.

Very, very serious-minded dwarf cross-dresser who finds it very, very frustrating that no non-dwarves can tell the difference when he cross-dresses.

Calmar
2010-09-09, 09:19 AM
What I would think of is adding some aspect to the concept. Like, logical dwarves. Sort of short, bearded Vulcans with a spin:
- It's illogical to waste time on personal hygiene, so long as it doesn't harm anyone. Shaving, bathing and all are fine to prevent health problems, but beyond that detract from time for more serious issues.
- It's illogical to bother with politeness. Say what you mean and cut the sweet-talk, so that communication goes over efficiently. Again, saves time, avoids mistakes and makes everything so much easier.
- It's logical to value gold, metal, stone and the like, because of their lasting nature. Fleeting things like beauty can not be valued for objective reasons, thus are irrelevant.

You'd end up having a pretty ordinary dwarf, but for a very different reason, which will show in many of his actions. He will drink wine, provided it's cheaper than ale (usually won't be). He will use magic, if it's the best solution in a given situation. And so on.

That's interesting. Your model seems to bear some similarities to the view of the original Cynicists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynicism#Philosophy), I think. :smallsmile:

grarrrg
2010-09-09, 10:31 AM
How would I go about making a non-stereotypical dwarf character?

Does not compute.
Does not compute.
Does not compute. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OurDwarvesAreAllTheSame)

Calmar
2010-09-09, 11:10 AM
Where does the 'typical' dwarf originate, anyway? Lord of the Rings? Ok, the mythological dwarves are artisans, smiths and artificers, but that's pretty much where the similarity ends. The dwarves of central and northern Europe are canny, reclusive, often magic-using and most often untrustworthy beings who aren't really known for being down-to-earth, honourable, or warlike. In fact, they're quite similar to France's and Britains faeries, apart from being generally described as rather ugly creatures.

HenryHankovitch
2010-09-09, 11:19 AM
Dwarven Indiana Jones.

Rebellious "teenage" punk dwarf, out to see the world, meet tall women, etc.

Dwarven gourmand.

Dwarven fur trader: a ranger-type that wanders the surface, hunting/trapping exotic beasts for their valuable pelts. Cat-fur hat optional.

Dwarven pirate. Bonus points for burning matches braided into his beard.

Snooty dwarven nobleman, dislikes getting his hands dirty. On "pilgrimage" from his home city due to his unreasonable demands for gem-studded lignite thrones, or what have you.

Ravens_cry
2010-09-09, 11:42 AM
Dwarven thief. Best among the dwarves, and proud of it, but when outcast, he finds there are others that much better.

kabof
2010-09-09, 11:46 AM
A dream dwarf hippie.

RationalGoblin
2010-09-09, 09:45 PM
Dwarf-punk.
Loose robes, martial arts and head-shaving. Tired of the staid old customs of his people, our young rebel has taken deliberate directions to distance himself from how everyone sees his people and how his elders expect him to act.

He retains the essential toughness, stubborness and dedicated approach to things that his people are known for, but takes it in a very different (and to other dwarves, possibly inflamatory) directions.


I like this, and it could work.

Maybe a dwarven monk who is lawful despite disliking his race's culture? Could go with that.



Be clean-shaven. Be courteous. Be interested in the cultural history of other races. Don't go clownish; that's become more and more a dwarf thing lately.

So: be a polite, upstanding, free-spirited and cheerful bard, fascinated with the world at large and truly open-minded and adventurous at heart. Seek out the peoples of the world and find out what makes them tick. Have a smile and an intelligent sense of humor. Fight by inspiring your companions and playing the flanker, flitting around the edge of your battle-lines and harassing people with spear-jabs.

Could go with that. But then, like someone else said, what's the point of being at least vaguely dwarvish? I mean, being non-stereotypical is one thing, but being easily replaced with a human character that's otherwise the same is pointless.

Clean-shaven would be nice, though.



*snip* Awesome averting yet keeping of a stereotype

I LOVE IT! Keeping one bit of the stereotype, but fleshing it out and exaggerating it well! I might go with that. Very interesting idea! A culture based entirely on architecture is fascinating.

If you wouldn't mind, might I ask you to flesh out another aspect of normal dwarven society to focus on?



if you like the aztecy feel, you can play a dwarf from foreign lands, or even from another plane if you make your backstory sufficiently accident prone.

I like Aztecs, and I could do a semi-Aztecy thing with the dwarven ancestors/gods.

Or, I could combine yours and Zeofar's idea, architects with Aztecs. Might be fun.


I agree with Zombimode. I would go for a dwarven Bard. A lorekeeper of the dwarven people, reciting the epics of the dwarven heroes and searching for lost relics of the dwarven race. He would play a concertina, and a natural 1 on a perform check means his concertina gets trapped in his beard. I would also play him as something of a buffoon. In my opinion a very dwarvish character but far from the stereotypical dwarven fighter.

Very respectable as well, quite dwarvish without being entirely stereotypical. I wonder, is there any Bard variant that changes the magic stat from Charisma to Wisdom or Intelligence?


Egyptian flavoured dwarf mason/rogue who is obsessed with the creation - or infiltration - of the perfect tomb.


Also a good idea; and it could be fun to combine the two mini-ideas. Why not have him obsessed with creating the perfect tomb, and infiltrate other tombs to get ideas on how to defend his own?

Gnomo
2010-09-09, 09:52 PM
Play a racist dwarf, one that thinks that the dwarven way of things is the best, that all other races are lesser forms of life, that the dwarven culture is the richest and the one that should rule all others, that anything is accepted as long as it benefits the dwarves, that the rest of the world population are just exploitable tools for the dwarven ever-growing empire. Aim to be the emperor.

kyoryu
2010-09-09, 09:56 PM
Dwarven gangs of marauders - think the Road Warrior and Lord Humongous' gang - with beards.

CoffeeIncluded
2010-09-09, 09:57 PM
My dwarves all have Italian names. They live right next door to the elves and are best friends with them. They like strong drinks, but that's because of the high constitution more than anything else. Many are miners, but that's because they're sitting on top of the largest (And pretty much the only) Divine Diamond deposit in the continent (Divine Diamonds are what's needed to raise the dead in Aequar, my setting in my comic).

However, many dwarves are enrolled in the elven magic academy only a few miles away. The dwarven god, Don, is a Bard/Planewalker who worked with Isarus, the elven wizard god.

claricorp
2010-09-09, 11:03 PM
A dwarven druid was something I was thinking up, possibly a hermit who has no idea about there own culture, possibly feeling more akin to humans or halflings.

Dwarves are strange often either described as stoic and silent or bashful and boisterous. Generally going as either will do fine, though twisting it up a notch is always interesting.

For example having a dwarven character who is quite loud and rambunctious when with the party, but shy and nervous when around others.

Dwarves make great explorer or knowledge hungry types aswell, eager to get away from there mountain homes and see new sites, possibly keeping a diary of his adventures.

Dwarves also make fantastic eccentrics, using a specific weapon despite other better ones available "bacuz it wuz me grandfathas" for example. Actively appraising all of the gems and metal items the party finds and then simply throwing away the ones that are not very valuable or "pretty".

Quincunx
2010-09-10, 01:36 AM
While I would pay good money for a Frankie Boyle take on dwarven culture. . .

Dwarves with a lust for life and experience. Stereotypical dwarves lack a spark; they seem to be moved only by duty. Instead, swap in characters with the spirit Red Bull likes to sponsor, who have tunneled past the crust of the earth just because some bookworm told them it was impossible, then hurled themselves down the mineshaft sans parachute and stopped themselves by slamming their AXES (insert reverb here) into the wall and hanging on with the famous dwarven iron grip. REAL dwarves can stop themselves just far enough off the ground to step down. Also being dwarves, they're dead serious about all this. The gnomes' Mount Nevermind is, in their eyes, lacking in quality control, lumbered with unnecessary machinery, AND gives little opportunity to show off dwarven physical fitness. (Failsafes in the BASE jumping shaft? What are you, some kinda wuss?) Adventuring against other wild beasts comes naturally to the thrill-seeker dwarf.

Ajadea
2010-09-10, 04:02 AM
Dwarves as Druids. Dwarves like earth. Druids like earth. Dwarves do not have a Wisdom Penalty. Done.

As a bonus, gives them something to be Dwarves vs Elves about, without being stereotypical: homebrew racial substitution levels that are rather different in philosophy. Elves are animal summoners, focusing on evocations and summoning. Dwarves are transmuters who need no companion except the earth under their feet.

Frail elves would skirmish and attack from range with flashy evocations like produce flame (they favor wizard, remember?) and focus on animals (who can tank for the elves), but the hardy dwarves would use the subtle, earth-focused, transmutations and focus on their connection with the earth itself. The fire within the core of the earth and the rocks that keep it strong, versus the life on the surface of the earth, and the cycles that make it possible. Maybe dwarven druids are allowed to wear metal armor and get some other perks in exchange for their animal companion.

Druidic dwarven cities would be marvels of stone and metal, and yet they would not be cold and lifeless, they would have life and beauty. Verdant dwarven cities, with waterfalls and large underground gardens, brimming with magic, contrasting with the web of cramped tunnels where they would live.

kamikasei
2010-09-10, 04:12 AM
Dwarves as Druids. Dwarves like earth. Druids like earth. Dwarves do not have a Wisdom Penalty. Done.
I'm surprised I didn't think of this earlier as it's an idea I've had rattling around for some time: dwarven earthbenders.

hamishspence
2010-09-10, 04:45 AM
Yes- "Doo-dad" type dwarven druids like Pikel Bouldershoulder aren't really necessary if the druid is a druid of the underdark.

The idea of druids integrating with their societies and being fundamental to them, rather than misfits, is an interesting one.

FelixG
2010-09-10, 04:58 AM
There are a few fun non stereotypical dwarf ideas in Dragon Age.

Tiki Snakes
2010-09-10, 10:01 AM
There are a few fun non stereotypical dwarf ideas in Dragon Age.

"Oh noes, I'mma fall into the sky!"
[insert rage here]
Carry on.

HenryHankovitch
2010-09-10, 11:16 AM
Dwarves also make fantastic eccentrics, using a specific weapon despite other better ones available "bacuz it wuz me grandfathas" for example. Actively appraising all of the gems and metal items the party finds and then simply throwing away the ones that are not very valuable or "pretty".
Actually, one of the things I really want to play someday is a dwarf who makes a big deal about wielding his forefathers' ancestral weapon...and then every time he picks up a new/better weapon, he starts referring to that as his ancestral weapon.

Kind of like how Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser were constantely losing and acquiring new weapons, but always gave them the same names.