Relationship Woes and Advice: 15-Love

[Syka]

Previous Thread: Relationship Woes and Advice: A Sleepless Fortnight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8949296#post8949296)

obligatory copypasta


Welcome to the Relationship Woes and Advice thread, home of any questions you may have: romantic or familial or friendship, we'll answer (or try to answer) them all. Three years old and growing. As Pancake says, this isn't a trade economy- feel free to ask if you have a question, even if you haven't ever given advice and don't intend to start. We won't stone you or ignore you or anything. :smallsmile: All we ask is to know how a situation ends up, either in this thread or through a PM.

Here are the basics.

The biggest bit of advice I've seen bandied around is the truest- no matter what else is true about the situation, always be yourself. It's no good to act like someone else, because eventually the true you will come out and the other person will not be happy you hid that from them.

Rules Of Relationships:
#1- Communicate. If you can't talk with your partner, it's probably not going to work.

#2- Be yourself. Admittedly, if you have some really bad habits you should probably try to change them, but be honest about who you are. No one wants to find out they were loving a lie, and no one likes to live a lie (...well, normally).

#3- Accept your partner. In mine, and other people's, experience you have to be able to accept your partner as they are, because they probably won't be able to change. Also, don't change drastically for someone. I've tried it, my friends have tried it, it doesn't work and it doesn't end pretty.

#4- Hints. Do. Not. Work. Or they might, but the chance of that happening is limited. Some people are like me and just utterly oblivious unless it is blatantly stated, others are (also like me) and don't want to assume, and yet others don't care. You won't know which they belong to unless you actually spell out your intentions and/or feelings. I would consider this a corrolery to Rule #1 except that it comes up so often. Do NOT assume someone should know something from hints. Hints, by nature, are subtle. Clue Bats/Crow Bars/Mack Trucks are not. Try hitting them with one of those. ;) (No, not literally. I mean be upfront if you are trying to get someone to know something.)

#5- Don't be desperate. You don't need to be in a relationship and the healthiest mindset is one where you are happy as you are, even if you do not have a significant other. Don't stay in a relationship that isn't good if you aren't happy, just because you want someone. This is detrimental to both parties in the long (and sometimes short) run.

#6- Be a couple. Set aside some time every week to be together. Just an hour, if nothing else, where it's JUST you two. No computer, no others. Just the couple.

#6.5- Maintain the relationship. Ask your partner every now and then how they are feeling, if they feel like the relationship is still going in a good direction, etc. Also, make sure you don't hide it if you have an issue with your partner or a relationship. The only way it can change is if you talk about it.

#7- Let your boundaries be known. This goes for everything from intimacy to what you consider cheating to any other thing you can think of. Pretty much if it's something that would possibly upset you or your partner, let them know BEFORE a problem arises. An example would be letting your partner know you consider kissing cheating. They very well might think only intercourse is cheating. Having that known before anything potentially happens is a good thing.

#8- Know the signs of an abusive relationship. (http://www.broadcaster.org.uk/section1/scenarios/rape.html#abusive) Both men and women can be abusers, and if you recognize the signs early on you are more likely to be able to get out of a bad situation before it gets out of hand. It's never easy, but if you know the general red flags, it can help you to avoid the situation.

Another list (http://www.hiddenhurt.co.uk/Abuser/signs.htm) - courtesy of Pheehelm and arkady

RULES. YOU READ THESE.
-Anything of a sexual nature, please PM to either myself or one of the regular advice givers. If you just want general opinions post something like: "I have this problem, but it is not board appropriate. Could one of you guys PM me?" I know from experience that you will in fact get help.

-KEEP IT NICE. Disagreements are bound to happen, but please don't be rude.

-Joking is all fun and games, within reasons. Please do not get derogatory.

I decided to put this up because, evidently, it was not apparent that these should be followed. I do not want this thread to be scrubbed again, and we were blessed to get it back.

So please - play nice, and if you're not comfortable talking about things over the open board, PM one of the regulars (too many to mention), and I'm sure they'll be willing to lend an ear - or if you're not sure who to PM, post asking for someone to PM you, and you'll soon get a response

-Syka

Previous Thread: Relationship Woes and Advice: A Sleepless Fortnight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8949296#post8949296)

[Syka]

Hey, look ma, first post. :smallwink:


Anyway, just running in to some aggravating Boy problems. Bah. He was all moody and rude to my mom and I last night when we went to a screening of some movies. But he was all talkative and friendly with everyone else. He'd walk ahead of us, wasn't really saying anything to us, etc.

On top of THAT, he tells me Person X agreed to do makeup for his next movie. :smallmad: I like Person X, she's really nice. Anger comes from the fact that TWO WEEKS ago I suggested this at a production meeting with three other people we're working with. He sides with our other friend about not to use Person X, for whatever reason. He was totally against it, then asks/accepts it. Why? "Only person I know who does make up."

No joke, Sherlock. It's why I suggested her in the first place. You said you were going to try and find someone else.

:smallannoyed: So yeah, Syka is in a bad mood. It doesn't help Mom is also upset with him for the reasons listed above. Bah. What is it about me and getting near the three year mark in a relationship?

[Ignition]

Have you tried bludgeoning him with a trout? That helps in my experience; if nothing else it makes you feel better :smallbiggrin:

Seriously, though, there's something else going on there, something core that is manifesting in these stupid passive-aggressive ways. Control issues maybe? It could be he wants it to be his idea, not yours (as dumb as that is). Is he more reasonable when not around your mother, or is he a pratt when he's alone with you too? Just getting a temperature here.

[snoopy13a]

Seriously, though, there's something else going on there, something core that is manifesting in these stupid passive-aggressive ways. Control issues maybe? It could be he wants it to be his idea, not yours (as dumb as that is). Is he more reasonable when not around your mother, or is he a pratt when he's alone with you too? Just getting a temperature here.

Not necessarily. He could have simply been in a bad movie that night. It is certainly reasonable* that someone in a bad mood could be unfriendly to those he is close with but would put up a friendly front towards those outside the inner circle.

If it is a one-time incident, I'd think it would be dangerous to read too much into it.

* I guess "reasonable" isn't the best word choice as that behavior isn't really reasonable. A better description would be "understandable" or "plausible". Still, the important aspect is that people do have off-days from time to time.

[Ignition]

Maybe, but there's "one time incident" and "a pattern of behavior based on certain stimuli", and I'm trying to discern which. I really hope it's just a one-off bad night! But I don't know that for sure, given the information I have in front of me.

[DeadManSleeping]

Sometimes people change their minds, Syka. It's pretty likely his logic behind everything is internally consistent. Did you ask him why he went against your suggestion in the first place? Being your boy-toy does not mean he has to automatically agree with you, despite the fact that popular media tells us that's how the world works. Perhaps, even, after his initial decision, he decided to give extra weight to the case you presented because he trusts you that much. I personally love it when people change their minds to agree with me (well, I would love it in theory). Take satisfaction in being right in the end, don't dwell on the fact that there was a disagreement in the first place.

And, for what it's worth, you can't always get around to socializing with everybody in the same night. Being ignored for a single night should not put him in your bad books. At the absolute worst, you should ignore him for one night (not that revenge of any sort is a healthy relationship move, but it could make you feel better). Stewing in rage about it is simply not good.

I don't want to make it sound like you're completely in the wrong here. I've read a couple of your posts you've written about this guy, and it does seem like he is an imperfect thing that does occasionally give into fits of the jerk. However, nothing you wrote about is anything you should classify as worse than a misdemeanor, like accidentally getting a topping you hate while ordering pizza. If anything's really bothering you, talk to the guy. Otherwise, give him some slack, eh?

[RabbitHoleLost]

Sometimes people change their minds, Syka. It's pretty likely his logic behind everything is internally consistent. Did you ask him why he went against your suggestion in the first place? Being your boy-toy does not mean he has to automatically agree with you, despite the fact that popular media tells us that's how the world works.
Just gonna say, calling him her "boy-toy" implies something I don't think you're going for here. You know, something really offensive, since its a three year relationship and she obviously has feelings for him beyond what the phrase denotes.

I agree partially here, that it may just be a mood, and, if it was, that's not something to really worry over. Granted, I'd be embarrassed if my significant other acted that way to my parent, so...maybe you should ask him about it? Ask him to apologize to your mother?
Otherwise, if this is a recurring thing, just talking to him in general might work, but carefully. Sometimes, getting to the root of an issue causes more problems than it solves.

[prufock]

So, have you confronted him on these issues? "You know, you were a jerk to my mother the other night" should get the ball rolling.

[Dvil]

I'm just going to copy-pasta a post that got a little lost in the 'new thread title' discussions.

Ok then, here goes; I was recently in Glasgow for a sort-of-holiday, including the university open day, and, before said open day, I was discussing my introversion with a friend and was challenged to get talking to someone. Now, I did manage to talk to a complete stranger (go me), and she turned out to be quite a cute redhead. It turns out we get along well, and we have a fair amount in common. I think there's a fair chance there's chemistry. But. She lives in Glasgow, and I live roughly 200 miles away. There are opportunities for me to holiday up there at half-term etc since my dad works up there, but it's still not what you'd call convenient.
So, what should I do? Do I try to develop this into a long-distance relationship? Do I try to keep the chemistry but wait to see if te situation becomes more convenient? Or do I just keep it as a friendship and nothing more, to simplify affairs?


It's also worth mentioning that she's openly acknowledged that I'm flirting with her over the last few days, and she doesn't seem to mind.

[snoopy13a]

So, what should I do? Do I try to develop this into a long-distance relationship? Do I try to keep the chemistry but wait to see if te situation becomes more convenient? Or do I just keep it as a friendship and nothing more, to simplify affairs?


It's also worth mentioning that she's openly acknowledged that I'm flirting with her over the last few days, and she doesn't seem to mind.

Honestly, this one's up to you. If you want to develop a relationship and believe that you'd be happy with a long distance relationship then it doesn't hurt to give it a shot. However, if you don't think that you can or want to have a long distance relationship then you'd be best staying friends. Ultimately, it depends on what you want here.

[Aedilred]

My ex has suggested that we meet in early October. I don't know quite what to make of this. It seems that she delayed contacting me until the last possible minute, and is now trying to delay meeting me until the last possible time too, so I don't really know what she's playing at, especially as she's not usually one for games. The arrangement was "two or three months"; this would be almost four. Moreover, what happens in the meantime? We're back in contact now by email, but we can't see each other for another month... why?

I don't really know what to say to her now. On the one hand it seems a ridiculous amount of time to wait unless there's a very good reason on her part, like that October is literally the earliest time she is free, which I think unlikely. On the other hand I don't want to suggest that we meet earlier for fear of looking clingy.

Everything I said before (that I still love her, etc.) still applies, but I'm starting to feel like she's messing me around, and I don't like being toyed with.

[arguskos]

Aedilred: Occam's Razor dude. The simplest solution is often the right one. If she can't meet, she can't meet. If you are feeling like she's jerking you around, do the simple thing, and ask her about it. :smallwink: Don't get complicated when the situation doesn't call for it, just ask the simple "hey, why the delay? Everything ok?" and see what she says. If she gives you a super vague answer, perhaps it's time to get a bit paranoid. If she says something like "oh, unexpected work crisis" or something, take it at face value. No need to over-think stuff.

[xPANCAKEx]

occums razor rarely applies to people

Dvil

keep the chemistry, but i wouldnt try to make something of it. Use your knew found confidence to start talking to people nearer you. If however, later down the line something DOES develop then consider it then

[term1nally s1ck]

Often, precisely the opposite is true. However, overthinking things is never going to help. I'd agree with just asking about it, seeing what she says. But, wwhatever you do, don't sound like you're accusing her of anything. Just ask as nicely as possible.

[Quincunx]

My ex has suggested that we meet in early October. I don't know quite what to make of this. It seems that she delayed contacting me until the last possible minute, and is now trying to delay meeting me until the last possible time too, so I don't really know what she's playing at, especially as she's not usually one for games. The arrangement was "two or three months"; this would be almost four. Moreover, what happens in the meantime? We're back in contact now by email, but we can't see each other for another month... why?

I don't really know what to say to her now. On the one hand it seems a ridiculous amount of time to wait unless there's a very good reason on her part, like that October is literally the earliest time she is free, which I think unlikely. On the other hand I don't want to suggest that we meet earlier for fear of looking clingy.

Everything I said before (that I still love her, etc.) still applies, but I'm starting to feel like she's messing me around, and I don't like being toyed with.

Playing. . .messed. . .look at your language of entitlement. She's not breaking a relationship contract, here. You're expecting more of her than you asked, for certain, and you're probably expecting the acquiescence of a girlfriend and not the independent timetable of a gal who'll fit you in ASAP but not immediately. You're offending yourself here.

[Serpentine]

Dvil: In my response that apparently got eaten (:smallannoyed:) I suggested that you keep in touch and aim to be good friends, and then later see if you're both interested in developing it further. I pointed out that you don't actually have to make a decision right now, and can just wait and see how it goes.

Syka: doncha hate it when they get in stroppy moods :smallannoyed:

[Innis Cabal]

My ex has suggested that we meet in early October. I don't know quite what to make of this. It seems that she delayed contacting me until the last possible minute, and is now trying to delay meeting me until the last possible time too, so I don't really know what she's playing at, especially as she's not usually one for games. The arrangement was "two or three months"; this would be almost four. Moreover, what happens in the meantime? We're back in contact now by email, but we can't see each other for another month... why?

I don't really know what to say to her now. On the one hand it seems a ridiculous amount of time to wait unless there's a very good reason on her part, like that October is literally the earliest time she is free, which I think unlikely. On the other hand I don't want to suggest that we meet earlier for fear of looking clingy.

Everything I said before (that I still love her, etc.) still applies, but I'm starting to feel like she's messing me around, and I don't like being toyed with.


Playing. . .messed. . .look at your language of entitlement. She's not breaking a relationship contract, here. You're expecting more of her than you asked, for certain, and you're probably expecting the acquiescence of a girlfriend and not the independent timetable of a gal who'll fit you in ASAP but not immediately. You're offending yourself here.

I totally disagree. If she did in fact say "Meet in two to three months" and it's been...well one month over isn't something to fret to much on, but if it stretchs longer...I'd begin to suspect as well. Frankly, ask what's up if she -did- set a two to three month period where you'd meet up around. I also don't feel your being to posessive or clingy either. If there was some agreement at least, which is what it sounds like.

[skywalker]

Anyway, just running in to some aggravating Boy problems. Bah. He was all moody and rude to my mom and I last night when we went to a screening of some movies. But he was all talkative and friendly with everyone else. He'd walk ahead of us, wasn't really saying anything to us, etc.

Doesn't particularly seem to be a big deal... Ask him about it? That seems useful.


On top of THAT, he tells me Person X agreed to do makeup for his next movie. :smallmad: I like Person X, she's really nice. Anger comes from the fact that TWO WEEKS ago I suggested this at a production meeting with three other people we're working with. He sides with our other friend about not to use Person X, for whatever reason. He was totally against it, then asks/accepts it. Why? "Only person I know who does make up."

No joke, Sherlock. It's why I suggested her in the first place. You said you were going to try and find someone else.

Possible he didn't find anyone else? I think it would be helpful to ask yourself "how mad would I be about this if it were any other person not Oz?" and see where that takes you. Maybe nowhere, maybe somewhere good.


:smallannoyed: So yeah, Syka is in a bad mood. It doesn't help Mom is also upset with him for the reasons listed above. Bah. What is it about me and getting near the three year mark in a relationship?

Advice #1: Stop feeding off your mother's negative emotions about the guy.

As for the 3-year mark? Several possibilities occur to me: First, that you have been letting things slide that are now building up to an unignorable point. This is possible for both of you. Could be why you've seemed to be a bit more touchy about him lately (I seem to remember a lot more "Oz did this" posts in the past 6 months than I ever did before). Could be why he was rude to you, too. Could be that you guys have some unreal (or even idealized) expectations of each other that are finally creeping in, or could conversely be that they were always there and are at a point where they can't go unchallenged anymore. It could also be that 3 years is a long time, and there's a certain air of commitment and etc going on.

I dunno. Just some thoughts. Most important point is take your own advice and talk to him. Whether or not it brings around deeper issues or causes more problems than it solves, if you guys can't talk by this point, what's the point even?

[prufock]

Ok then, here goes; I was recently in Glasgow for a sort-of-holiday, including the university open day, and, before said open day, I was discussing my introversion with a friend and was challenged to get talking to someone. Now, I did manage to talk to a complete stranger (go me), and she turned out to be quite a cute redhead. It turns out we get along well, and we have a fair amount in common. I think there's a fair chance there's chemistry. But. She lives in Glasgow, and I live roughly 200 miles away. There are opportunities for me to holiday up there at half-term etc since my dad works up there, but it's still not what you'd call convenient.
So, what should I do? Do I try to develop this into a long-distance relationship? Do I try to keep the chemistry but wait to see if te situation becomes more convenient? Or do I just keep it as a friendship and nothing more, to simplify affairs?

I wouldn't. Long distance relationships require a lot of work (and money!) to keep going. If this had been a pre-established relationship, I would say give it a try, but this is just a flirtation. It's a lot of commitment for someone you just met.

From your own description, you're an indrawn person that probably doesn't meet interesting, attractive people on a regular basis. It seems common that people with such a disposition overattach to the people they do meet. I'd say use what you've learned here to meet more people, and you'll eventually find someone else who is compatible.

That said, by all means keep in touch via e-mail, calls, actual WRITTEN LETTERS (people love those!), but don't overdo it and don't do it with any expectations. If things progress or become more justifiable, then it might be worth a shot.

[prufock]

My ex has suggested that we meet in early October. I don't know quite what to make of this. It seems that she delayed contacting me until the last possible minute, and is now trying to delay meeting me until the last possible time too, so I don't really know what she's playing at, especially as she's not usually one for games. The arrangement was "two or three months"; this would be almost four. Moreover, what happens in the meantime? We're back in contact now by email, but we can't see each other for another month... why?

I don't really know what to say to her now. On the one hand it seems a ridiculous amount of time to wait unless there's a very good reason on her part, like that October is literally the earliest time she is free, which I think unlikely. On the other hand I don't want to suggest that we meet earlier for fear of looking clingy.

Everything I said before (that I still love her, etc.) still applies, but I'm starting to feel like she's messing me around, and I don't like being toyed with.

Write it off.

You aren't going to meet up with her. Stop e-mailing her, except to say you aren't interested in meeting up. Don't belabour the point.

The relationship is over. She will move on, you will move on. You are clinging to a dead horse. If reigniting this relationship was a priority to her, she would not leave you waiting. Accept this now, whether you want to or not.

Writing it off can only be a good thing:
- Clinging to this false sense of hope is not healthy for you. You will recover much faster if you let go.
- Accepting that the meeting won't happen will relieve you of this feeling of being manipulated.
- If by some slim chance a meeting DOES happen, you will go into it without expectation. This will reduce the pressure you might feel.
- It would not be healthy to re-enter a relationship based on one member's neediness.
- Seeing her (and e-mailing her) will only prolong and exacerbate your feelings for her. Not good.

[Dvil]

Ah, thanks guys.I think I'll take the majority advice here and just wait a little longer to see what happens.

[term1nally s1ck]

Dvil:
I'm going to be blunt here. You admit to introversion. Use this girl to break it.

She's cute, there's a little chemistry, but the distance makes it unlikely it will go further. Use this connection to learn to flirt, tease, and generally have fun with someone who you haven't known the majority of your life, it makes taking the step to doing the same stuff with complete strangers a LOT easier, and once you can do it well enough to consistently get the right reaction out of her (For reference, it's the 'Oh my god I can't believe you said that....but I kinda like it' reaction, most often accompanied by a fake 'shocked' expression and a swat on the arm, melting into a big smile. It has become my aim in any situation when I meet a girl to get that reaction, as it always leaves a GREAT impression.), you know how to do it with any other girl, too.

[Lioness]

Don't really want advice here, just looking to let off a little steam.

Some of you may remember that I've been having problems being at my dad's house for a while now. Two weeks ago I didn't go at all. This week I agreed to go because it's my grandma's 70th, and they're having a lunch.

I arrived tonight after everyone was asleep. They obviously didn't expect me. My bed was being used as a clothes rack to dry clothes, and my pillow was, consequently, wet. I assumed they didn't think I was coming and turned around and went back to mum's.

I don't know whether I should've done it, because now there'll be more confusion, but I don't know what else I could've done. I couldn't sleep in my wet bed, and I couldn't sleep on the lounge because of wet covers and missing pyjamas.

So I've gone from being drudgingly willing to spend the weekend there, to not planning to spend time there at all.

[Serpentine]

Do you know why they wouldn't expect you? Did you not say you were going?

[Lioness]

I just talked to mum...apparently they knew I was coming, and had planned transport for the lunch tomorrow based on me being there.

So maybe they didn't expect me to sleep :smallannoyed:

Or maybe dad's suffering from the delusion that I'm sleeping at BF's house, seeing as, you know, I'm there until 11pm. Not so.

Either way, I'm not sure what happened. But I left them a note.

[Serpentine]

Good that you left a note. Sounds like better planning and communication is in order. After all, you suddenly changed the routine two weeks ago. Maybe they assumed the routine was still changing...

[Lioness]

Yeah. Although I'm pretty sure dad's double checked with mum several times this week that I'm coming. And my sisters knew too.

[Serpentine]

But did anyone think to check the time you'd turn up?

[Lioness]

Nope, but that was definitely my fault. I usually text dad saying "be home around midnight" or something similar. Today my phone was flat.

It's likely that because dad didn't get the text, he assumed I wasn't coming until the morning.

[Syka]

The reason it bugged me is it is becoming a bit of a pattern (both the being all moody and stuff to me and no one else in public, and the accepting an idea from someone else but not when I mention it).

And of course we talked about it, I just couldn't at that moment 'cause he was still asleep and I was at school (we did some the night before, but I was pretty tired). :smalltongue: It's mostly that this is the first time that A. it happened in front of/to a family member as well as myself and B. well...it was worse than any other time. But he knows I'm going to call him on it if it happens again, and that he's gotten reign it in in public. I think what bugged me the most was the fact he was actively separating himself from me but no one else when I'd done nothing to warrant that. He even ADMITTED he was actively doing it with nothing beyond a "I was in a bad mood" to back it up.


Skywalker, I was asking about the three year thing because that's around the time my last relationship started it's nose dive, lol. It's just one of those wacky coincidences, though.

Honestly, I think the increase in issues is mostly due to the fact we BOTH have increased stress levels. The last two semesters (current and the one previous) have been/are hell for me. He's currently dealing with a film that won't cooperate, planning another one, and submitting college apps. So...we're both shorter of temper lately. It never lasts long (seeing as I spent the night last night, lol), it's just...I need to vent somewhere. And, because I don't want my mom going all Mama Grizzly, I vent here. :smallsmile: Trust me, he's still a sweetheart 99% of the time. And I'm definitely not perfect, either.


I'd just rather let off some steam here rather than on him, ya know?


Also, I don't expect him to agree with me on everything. It's the "No way am I doing that!" reaction I get, but when someone else says it it gets a "So-and-so suggested this, it's so awesome!" that's annoying. Apparently it is him changing his mind....but without ever acknowledging my role. And yeah, it would irritate me with a friend, too, if they did it regularly.

[Aedilred]

Write it off.

You aren't going to meet up with her. Stop e-mailing her, except to say you aren't interested in meeting up. Don't belabour the point.
Well, see my previous post about how I know all the accepted wisdom on this point and am choosing to ignore it. I know the chances of anything working out are slim; I know that our being able to stay good friends is unlikely, but I have to try. I know myself, and I know that I will never be able to forgive myself if I feel I missed an opportunity here. Which I will. I've put up with three months of anguish and heartache over the issue; I can put up with two more just so that I can reassure myself that I did my best.

Not to mention that it's not just about the relationship, it's about my entire social life. We have so many friends in common that it's really been quite inconvenient over the last couple of months that we've not been able to see each other. By cutting her out of my life I'd also- effectively- be cutting out a large number of my friends. I also have the instructive example of my housemate, who went down the route you suggest, and still- a year on- can't even bear to say her ex's name.

Quincunx, trying to be friends was something she insisted on. All of this- the break, her re-establishing contact, and so forth- came from her. Maybe there is a bit of a sense of entitlement here, but not too much. She said we could start seeing each other again in the allotted time frame; I kept up my end of the bargain and didn't contact her at all. We did run into each other briefly, and it was obvious that I found that rather awkward and distressing... it's not hard to extrapolate from that that re-establishing contact at the agreed time only to delay a personal meeting by a further month is going to be something I find difficult to cope with. I just feel that she's behaving in the way she finds most practically/emotionally convenient for her, and not giving due care and attention to how I might feel about things. I'd never intentionally treat a friend in such a fashion, and it's not like her to do so either, hence why I'm rather confused.

[snoopy13a]

Well, see my previous post about how I know all the accepted wisdom on this point and am choosing to ignore it. I know the chances of anything working out are slim; I know that our being able to stay good friends is unlikely, but I have to try. I know myself, and I know that I will never be able to forgive myself if I feel I missed an opportunity here. Which I will. I've put up with three months of anguish and heartache over the issue; I can put up with two more just so that I can reassure myself that I did my best.



My bet is that towards the end of this month, she'll tell you that she won't be able to meet in early October. You'll suggest November or December and she'll agree. Then in November or December she'll tell you that she won't be able to meet...

Look, my interpretation is that she doesn't want to meet you but doesn't want to straight out tell you that. Instead, she's constantly post-poning things with the hopes that you'll get the hint. I don't think that this women likes you anymore, I think you should cut your losses and moved on.

[Malfunctioned]

Not much really to add for this except that I'm completely over my ex now. I saw her last week at a festival and she was not the girl that I had fallen in love with at all, she had changed completely and not in a good way. So yeah. Even her mum, with whom I get on better than I do with her, agreed with me.

I still miss the girl she used to be but I would not want anything to do with her now.

[Aedilred]

My bet is that towards the end of this month, she'll tell you that she won't be able to meet in early October. You'll suggest November or December and she'll agree. Then in November or December she'll tell you that she won't be able to meet...

Look, my interpretation is that she doesn't want to meet you but doesn't want to straight out tell you that. Instead, she's constantly post-poning things with the hopes that you'll get the hint. I don't think that this women likes you anymore, I think you should cut your losses and moved on.
If that were the case, I can't see why she would have invited me to her birthday at the end of October. Her emails to me have also made reference to wanting to meet up beyond the first occasion; not to mention that (on the rare occasions I've been told anything) our mutual friends have told me that she does genuinely want to see me.

Meh, I'm not really getting anywhere with this. In fact in some ways a later meeting date works in my favour as it gives me more of a chance to work out those issues in my life that still aren't resolved before I have to deal with her again. It just all seems very weird.

[prufock]

Well, see my previous post about how I know all the accepted wisdom on this point and am choosing to ignore it. I know the chances of anything working out are slim; I know that our being able to stay good friends is unlikely, but I have to try. I know myself, and I know that I will never be able to forgive myself if I feel I missed an opportunity here. Which I will. I've put up with three months of anguish and heartache over the issue; I can put up with two more just so that I can reassure myself that I did my best.
It is foolhardy, but you seem to recognize that and still insist on it. If you are committed to this action, there's not much I can say that would change your mind, nor would I care to. If you are making an informed decision, the choice is yours.


Not to mention that it's not just about the relationship, it's about my entire social life. We have so many friends in common that it's really been quite inconvenient over the last couple of months that we've not been able to see each other. By cutting her out of my life I'd also- effectively- be cutting out a large number of my friends.
However, this part doesn't make sense to me. You are saying that:
- you have friends in common
- you see these friends separately
- yet somehow it is difficult to arrange a meeting between the two of you that isn't two months away

I'm trying to bend my brain around this, but it's tough. If you see your friends, and she sees your friends, how is it difficult to see each other? Unless your schedules are completely out of whack, you'd think there would be some overlap there. The only other explanation is that you are actively avoiding one another. If this is so, it makes no sense to try to arrange a meeting!

So, as an addendum to my earlier response:
See your friends when you (and they) want. If she happens to be there, so what? Treat her like you would treat any other acquaintance that happens to be there. Are you sure you aren't making this harder than it has to be?

[Syka]

Do you know from mutual friends what her schedule is like? It could be that in the next 2-3 weeks there honestly isn't much available time left, without digging in to "down time". I love my friends dearly, but they also know that during the semester chances of hang time are very, very low without significant pre-planning and allowance for school emergencies.

[Aedilred]

Ah, perhaps you missed the context. When we split up a couple of months ago we arranged that we'd take an extended break from seeing or contacting each other- at all- (on the advice of her therapist) of duration <expiring about now> and that she would contact me to arrange meeting up again. I haven't been avoiding her because I haven't wanted to see her, but rather because our arrangement didn't allow me to.

It is foolhardy, but you seem to recognize that and still insist on it. If you are committed to this action, there's not much I can say that would change your mind, nor would I care to. If you are making an informed decision, the choice is yours.
I'm pretty sure that I know what I'm doing as far as my own emotional wellbeing goes. In terms of getting over this in the long term, trying and failing would be a lot better than not trying at all. The area in which I don't know what I'm doing is the practical side of it; this would be a lot easier if there wasn't another human variable involved (but then, of course, you could say that in every post in this thread and it would be equally true on every occasion).

Syka- I know she is pretty busy, especially at weekends, and it might be that she has stuff she wants to get out of the way before she starts dealing with me again; I just find it surprising that she can't spare one evening over the course of the next month. I suspect, though, that you're all right, and I'm reading rather more into her actions than there actually is to read.

[Syka]

Well, what does she do? Is she a student, etc?

I know that my midterms begin on Monday, as well as some projects coming due in the next 3 weeks. My good friend is in a similar boat, and this also ignores homework assignments.

[Aedilred]

I doubt work is taking up *too* much of her time, although she does go through patches where it eats up entire weeks on fieldwork (most of the time it's just a 9-5 office job). There are other things that'll be taking up her time, though- I know she had a family wedding scheduled for some time around now which she'll be helping with, and she'll still be trying to buy a house, which will obviously be a time-consuming process too.

[Syka]

...oh god weddings. :smalleek: Yeah, if she's been conscripted, that's likely doing the trick (along with house hunting). I'm the Maid of Honor for my sister and, egads, it's horrible. I'm actually taking the week or so before the wedding off from work so I can help out.

I'd cut her some slack until about the time she said she would hang out. If she bails AGAIN, then I would call her on it. Have you guys set a firm date yet? If not, ask if you guys can. That way it's actually IN her schedule.

[MountainKing]

I've never been to a non-Catholic wedding, so I can't say for certain if they're the *worst*, but I know for a fact that Catholic weddings are BORING AS ALL GET OUT, and if either Aedilred's ladyfriend or Syka have been ensnared into one, I am so... so very sorry. :smallfrown:

[Aedilred]

We have a date now, although we haven't worked out exactly what time or where. I'll see how things go when I see her.

Edit- I can guarantee that it is most certainly not a Catholic wedding, although I suspect it will still need quite a lot of organising.

[Syka]

My sister's isn't Catholic. The ceremony is actually likely in the same place as the reception, even. But it's...arhgsgjpshgb. There is a reason I'm anti-wedding. I'll get married, but refuse to have a wedding unless someone else plans it and just tells me when to show up, lol. I can only imagine as it gets even closer that it'll be worse (what with over 100 guests *sob*).

[Coidzor]

My sister's isn't Catholic. The ceremony is actually likely in the same place as the reception, even. But it's...arhgsgjpshgb. There is a reason I'm anti-wedding. I'll get married, but refuse to have a wedding unless someone else plans it and just tells me when to show up, lol. I can only imagine as it gets even closer that it'll be worse (what with over 100 guests *sob*).

To be perfectly honest, I've never understood the preoccupation with trying to break up the wedding before it starts by having the bride have all of that angst and stress and expectation built up inside of her.

[Pyrian]

Maybe you figure if they can survive the wedding, they can deal with being married? :smallwink: ...Obviously isn't working. :smalltongue: If anything, I think some people go through with weddings they shouldn't on account of all the built up momentum by the time of the event...

[MountainKing]

Maybe you figure if they can survive the wedding, they can deal with being married? :smallwink: ...Obviously isn't working. :smalltongue: If anything, I think some people go through with weddings they shouldn't on account of all the built up momentum by the time of the event...

Now I need to work physics into my future marriage vows. Curse you!

[Pyrian]

"Opposite charge is what brings us together. To entangle and to bond, from this t+, for confirmation or for falsification, for grants received or for pro bono, for classical or for speculative, in publication and in obscurity, to 'philia and to condensate, 'til entropy do us part." :smalltongue:

[Dvil]

Hmm. I think there ought be a QED in there somewhere.

[hawkboy772042]

So I have been out on 2 dates with this girl and they seemed to go well. Unfortunately, they've been spaced far in between since she goes to college two hours away and isn't always here.

Anyways, I've been trying to set up a third date with her, but she hasn't been answering her phone. At one point she answered me, telling me that she's using her dad's phone now since her phone is on the fritz. I asked her to give me the number, but she declined due to the phone being able to be given back to her dad at any time.

She said that she'd be able to see me today, but if she doesn't call me, should I bother with her calling her or just write her off?

[MountainKing]

So I have been out on 2 dates with this girl and they seemed to go well. Unfortunately, they've been spaced far in between since she goes to college two hours away and isn't always here.

Anyways, I've been trying to set up a third date with her, but she hasn't been answering her phone. At one point she answered me, telling me that she's using her dad's phone now since her phone is on the fritz. I asked her to give me the number, but she declined due to the phone being able to be given back to her dad at any time.

She said that she'd be able to see me today, but if she doesn't call me, should I bother with her calling her or just write her off?

You should take a deep breath and settle a little, mate. You guys have had two dates (impressive, given that you're two hours away from each other)... and that's it. She has a legitimate concern about giving you her dad's phone number; were I in her shoes, I wouldn't do it either. If she really is having phone problems, then that's it. Don't write her off just because she can't get a hold of you... but don't waste your time being upset if she doesn't manage to do so either.

[Serpentine]

Find a new communication method. Email, Facebook and/or instant messaging are all the rage.

[xPANCAKEx]

i wouldnt "write it off", but id certainly leave the ball in her court. Its up to her to call you this time, so just chill n wait

[The Vorpal Tribble]

I've been thinking on some things and wondering. Twilight crap aside, are there any basis to the possibility of humans imprinting on another as a mate? May not even like the person, feelings may not be reciprocated, but yet a primal level, that someone is yours?

[MountainKing]

Well, there ARE a lot of hormonal/chemical/neurological bonds that are created when two people have sex. So, it's not just a possibility, it's a very real thing already, it just depends on how much you put into it.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

I meant without sex.

[Serpentine]

I think imprinting is a specific biological phenomenon, usually between parent and child, usually so the child doesn't wander off and get eaten by a grue or some other meme. So, no, I don't think so, but I'm willing to be corrected.

[Lioness]

Don't ducklings or some other small fluffy animals imprint? So it exists, but not commonly in humans.

[Serpentine]

Wait, that's under question? Yeah, imprinting's a real thing. It's just, like I said, at least usually offspring imprinting on parents mostly for safety reasons.

[Moonshadow]

You don't ever really forget the first person you loved, do you? Even if it ended in a very bad way?

I'm just in a very wistful mood right now. It's just, y'know. It's been 18 months or so, and I still can't forget her face, even though the hate that I held for what she did to me has gone.

I'm a little afraid to go to sleep. I don't think I'm gonna have good dreams, being in this frame of mind.

[Lioness]

You don't ever really forget the first person you loved, do you? Even if it ended in a very bad way?

I'm just in a very wistful mood right now. It's just, y'know. It's been 18 months or so, and I still can't forget her face, even though the hate that I held for what she did to me has gone.

I'm a little afraid to go to sleep. I don't think I'm gonna have good dreams, being in this frame of mind.

No, I don't think you do. I still FB stalk my crush of 4 years (4 years ago). And I'm still a sort of awkward friends with my first boyfriend. I'll never forget our first proper date...listening to a symphony orchestra at night in a park, with family, friends, cheese, and drinks (of the non-alcoholic flavour). It was amazing.
Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely over him, and wouldn't date him again, because he's changed so, so much. But that date was amazing.

I'm scared to go to sleep too. I've been listening to "Do You Wanna Date My Avatar" pretty much constantly for the last hour, so I'm pretty sure that Felicia Day will be somewhere in my dreams.

But you never know, eh? Your subconscious might drag up some happy memories for you. It might realise that you're sad and nostalgic, and so make you dream something that makes things better.
It's worth a try. And if it's a horrible dream, then forget it. We seem to be amazingly good at forgetting dreams :smallsmile:

[Malfunctioned]

No, I don't think you do. I still FB stalk my crush of 4 years (4 years ago). And I'm still a sort of awkward friends with my first boyfriend. I'll never forget our first proper date...listening to a symphony orchestra at night in a park, with family, friends, cheese, and drinks (of the non-alcoholic flavour). It was amazing.
Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely over him, and wouldn't date him again, because he's changed so, so much. But that date was amazing.

My first date with T was pretty much my first proper date. We ended up just talking at Camden Lock for about an hour on the first day of 2009. And then she kissed me, which I was quite surprised with. Of course, like you said, I'm completely over her and she certainly changed.


I'm scared to go to sleep too. I've been listening to "Do You Wanna Date My Avatar" pretty much constantly for the last hour, so I'm pretty sure that Felicia Day will be somewhere in my dreams.


Wait....so you're scared to sleep because Felicia Day will be in your dreams? There are few things that would make me want to sleep more....

[Syka]

Nope. Still have some fond memories with Ex despite the disaster that ended up being. And it ended nigh on 4 years ago- longer than we were even together. It doesn't mean I still want to be with him, or even know him, but that I will always care about him in some way.

I also don't think you forget anyone you truly love, though, first or not. I'm fairly certain that if things were to end with Oz and I that I would never forget.

[Lioness]

Wait....so you're scared to sleep because Felicia Day will be in your dreams? There are few things that would make me want to sleep more....

Haha. Well, I have to get up early, and I might not want to get out of bed.

[prufock]

I've been thinking on some things and wondering. Twilight crap aside, are there any basis to the possibility of humans imprinting on another as a mate? May not even like the person, feelings may not be reciprocated, but yet a primal level, that someone is yours?

Mmmmm, not really, to my knowledge. There is something called sexual imprinting, but that's just a fancy way of saying we choose mates that look like our parents and ourselves.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Mmmmm, not really, to my knowledge. There is something called sexual imprinting, but that's just a fancy way of saying we choose mates that look like our parents and ourselves.
Yeah, heard of that, which, in my case, is bull, parent-wise. Those I fancy look and act absolutely nothing like either parent, and for that I am so grateful.

[Jonesh]

So I know this girl who's bright, cute and sweet. Basically everything I'm looking for in a partner. There was chemistry between us when we met and we talk and flirt a lot. So far so good, right?
In a word: No.
She has a (kind of boring) boyfriend since about 1-2 months ago.

She and I still flirt a lot and she wants to come stay at my place, with just the two of us. She doesn't want me to come to Her place because She thinks then Her family might tease her about Her "new boyfriend". She says She loves her boyfriend but She doesn't seem to be so serious about it.
Of course, I'm no expert either but to me it has seemed that 1-2 month relationships are pretty much just dust in the wind and sometimes they just might blow away.

And the one thing that irks me the most is that during the party She and I hung out at (we had talked a lot before that) I was dating another girl who had vaguely said something along the line that we (me and the girl I was dating) shouldn't make out or anything at the party but just enjoy the party. I thought we were dating exclusively so I didn't really mind, but apparently it was code for "We're not dating exclusively" so that eventually went sour.
Obviously, during this party She flirted with me and I could barely flirt back because I misstakenly believed that would be "wrong" against the girl I was dating.
And that party was when She instead found her dull later-boyfriend from Snorestown, Nowhere :smallsigh:

So the way I see it, I could be a jerk and break them up and then shortly afterwards probably get cheated on/dumped, I could be a jerk and damn fool for trying to break up what didn't look like a solid relationship but it really was or I could be lonely. Again. For even longer :smallfrown:

I always miss these kind of chances, I don't know what I'm doing wrong or what I should do with this one? I really like her, I ache all over :smallfrown:
I can never really write these posts in anything resembling a good mood. I'm sorry for ranting like this. :smallfrown:

[MountainKing]

I meant without sex.

Oh, well, erm... I'm sure it's more than possible, with enough psychological conditioning... :smallconfused:

[Coidzor]

I've been thinking on some things and wondering. Twilight crap aside, are there any basis to the possibility of humans imprinting on another as a mate? May not even like the person, feelings may not be reciprocated, but yet a primal level, that someone is yours?
Mmmmm, not really, to my knowledge. There is something called sexual imprinting, but that's just a fancy way of saying we choose mates that look like our parents and ourselves.

I'm pretty sure you're more likely to get what'cha'ma'callit... Westermarck Effect than anything else.

So, yeah.

[Quincunx]

Locking eyes with a stranger across the room? Can be done.
The disquieting "lost puppy" sensation of trailing after someone with no idea why, or what to do once you catch up? Can be done.
Me want sex with you now? Can be done.

Having any claim on anyone just because of the first lines? No. You still need to get to know them person to person, and they may say "no" and overrule your wants.

[thorgrim29]

Well, two of my friends just broke up, don't know yet how or why, after a summer of on and off drama. Not looking forward to my bro duties, I like the girl too (as a friend, she's a bit too mercurial for my taste).

[CynicalAvocado]

Well, two of my friends just broke up, don't know yet how or why, after a summer of on and off drama. Not looking forward to my bro duties, I like the girl too (as a friend, she's a bit too mercurial for my taste).

who initiated the break up, her or him?

[thorgrim29]

No idea, but if I had to guess I'd say him due to reasons related to the drama I alluded to. I'll know more this evening when I call him I expect.

[xPANCAKEx]

thorgrim29

steer clear of the advice giving, just re-inject hassle free fun to his life. If he was one for advice then he would have called it off a fair while before now

Jonesh

balls in her court. so don't be a tool and try to break them up.

hang out, sure, but if she tries to make a move, remind her that she is attached to someone else. If she says its not exclusive then by all means have at it, but otherwise steer clear. Being the 'bit on the side' rarely goes well, so dont think you'll be one of those exceptions. If shes serious about you, she'll do the decent thing and call it off with him first. However, if you dont give a rats behind about cheating then by all means give it a go, but just be aware you WILL be painted as the bad guy if things go south

[thorgrim29]

Yeah that's pretty much what I figured, let him talk if he wants to, just have fun if he doesn't.

[Tonal Architect]

Jonesh, I wonder whether she's not simply waiting for the moment when your feelings will overflow and you'll simply kiss her in spite of everything. I won't overanalyze it, but it gets me wondering.

Truly, was I in your position, maybe I would jump the gun and do this.

[Innis Cabal]

Nope. Still have some fond memories with Ex despite the disaster that ended up being. And it ended nigh on 4 years ago- longer than we were even together. It doesn't mean I still want to be with him, or even know him, but that I will always care about him in some way.

I also don't think you forget anyone you truly love, though, first or not. I'm fairly certain that if things were to end with Oz and I that I would never forget.

I can honestly say 6 months after my ex-fiance cheated on me, the only thing I remember about her is wanting to see her hurt. And I think when I find someone new, I'll forget all about her. Will I forget the fun times over the 5 years we were together? No, but the woman will become a blur as she's becoming now. And when someone comes and actually loves me for who I am, who knows, it might just be that lucky guy or gal that wedges their way into the fond memories from before. But I can say with certainty, that I don't understand caring about anyone whose hurt you so deeply in the past.

[Serpentine]

Relationshipy situation I heard about today:
Two girls and a boy living with each other, in a house owned by the boy - bought for him by his parents.
Boy and girl 1 are engaged.
Girl 1 is a supposedly reasonably strict Catholic, of the no-sex-before-marriage kind.
Thus, girl 1 is a virgin, and (obviously) has not "done it" with boy.
Girl 2 is, if I recall correctly, "polyamorous" (in the harem-keeping strain).
Girl 2 regularly gets it on with boy.
Girl 2 and boy openly display affection towards one another. Girl 1 apparently doesn't mind.

Thoughts?

[Skeppio]

DOES NOT COMPUTE.

I assume there's more to it than that, but yeah.

[Coidzor]

Thoughts?

Silly and I think the fiance girl is sort of ignoring the point of her views viz. her boy making her some form of minor hypocrite.

[xPANCAKEx]

if all are happy with the relationship then kudos for finding a way to keep things going

i have to ask though, what does girl 1 expect of the relationship AFTER getting married to the boy?

[Pyrian]

I predict that marriage will not last. :smallcool:

[loopy]

hang out, sure, but if she tries to make a move, remind her that she is attached to someone else. If she says its not exclusive then by all means have at it, but otherwise steer clear. Being the 'bit on the side' rarely goes well, so dont think you'll be one of those exceptions. If shes serious about you, she'll do the decent thing and call it off with him first. However, if you dont give a rats behind about cheating then by all means give it a go, but just be aware you WILL be painted as the bad guy if things go south

Its amazing how much this applies to my own recent situation.

[Tonal Architect]

I don't think there's too much to think about; sounds peculiar, but well, so does sound a lot of other things... Although, IIRC, catholics believe in strict monogamy, which makes me wonder how come Girl 1 upholds her "no sex before marriage" values and still doesn't mind boy and Girl 2 getting it on.

Sure, one can make all sort of assumptions, but those would only ammount to assumptions, in the end.

[Moonshadow]

Nope. Still have some fond memories with Ex despite the disaster that ended up being. And it ended nigh on 4 years ago- longer than we were even together. It doesn't mean I still want to be with him, or even know him, but that I will always care about him in some way.

I also don't think you forget anyone you truly love, though, first or not. I'm fairly certain that if things were to end with Oz and I that I would never forget.

Thats the part that bugs the hell out of me. I still have the occasional wistful memory of her, and I still carry a bit of guilt, seeing as I never really knew if I caused things to happen how they did or not.

I seem to carry a fair amount of baggage away with me from breakups. Heck, my first ever girlfriend, I don't think I fully got over her until a year and a half after she dumped me, and that was after I sent her an email to apologise for my percieved wrong doings. Dunno if that will work with this one though. Still rather bitter towards her, even if the hate is gone.


Relationshipy situation I heard about today:
Two girls and a boy living with each other, in a house owned by the boy - bought for him by his parents.
Boy and girl 1 are engaged.
Girl 1 is a supposedly reasonably strict Catholic, of the no-sex-before-marriage kind.
Thus, girl 1 is a virgin, and (obviously) has not "done it" with boy.
Girl 2 is, if I recall correctly, "polyamorous" (in the harem-keeping strain).
Girl 2 regularly gets it on with boy.
Girl 2 and boy openly display affection towards one another. Girl 1 apparently doesn't mind.

Thoughts?

My thoughts? Girl 1 may say she doesn't mind, but I reckon that she does. I'm fairly sure I could not handle my girlfriend being all 'affectionate' towards each other in my presence, but then again, I am a bit of a jealous type.

Still, sounds like a bit of a powderkeg to me.

[The Succubus]

Relationshipy situation I heard about today:
Two girls and a boy living with each other, in a house owned by the boy - bought for him by his parents.
Boy and girl 1 are engaged.
Girl 1 is a supposedly reasonably strict Catholic, of the no-sex-before-marriage kind.
Thus, girl 1 is a virgin, and (obviously) has not "done it" with boy.
Girl 2 is, if I recall correctly, "polyamorous" (in the harem-keeping strain).
Girl 2 regularly gets it on with boy.
Girl 2 and boy openly display affection towards one another. Girl 1 apparently doesn't mind.

Thoughts?

I'm calling Fox with a pitch for a new sitcom.

[Quincunx]

The Thoughts of Girl One are designed to stand alone, but may be intertwined.

Thought: Better her than me. Sex. Ick.
Thought: What I see, I control.
Thought: I'll tolerate it for the sake of not having a mortgage.

[RebelRogue]

Relationshipy situation I heard about today:
Two girls and a boy living with each other, in a house owned by the boy - bought for him by his parents.
Boy and girl 1 are engaged.
Girl 1 is a supposedly reasonably strict Catholic, of the no-sex-before-marriage kind.
Thus, girl 1 is a virgin, and (obviously) has not "done it" with boy.
Girl 2 is, if I recall correctly, "polyamorous" (in the harem-keeping strain).
Girl 2 regularly gets it on with boy.
Girl 2 and boy openly display affection towards one another. Girl 1 apparently doesn't mind.

Thoughts?
There's a select few people who are truly polyamorous and want to live their lives like that - more power to them. Most people, however, are not, even if they may think they are. So, there's a chance that this is really an arrangement that all three are ok with, but statistically, I think this is headed for trouble.

[ghost_warlock]

So I know this girl who's bright, cute and sweet. Basically everything I'm looking for in a partner. There was chemistry between us when we met and we talk and flirt a lot. So far so good, right?
In a word: No.
She has a (kind of boring) boyfriend since about 1-2 months ago.

She and I still flirt a lot and she wants to come stay at my place, with just the two of us. She doesn't want me to come to Her place because She thinks then Her family might tease her about Her "new boyfriend". She says She loves her boyfriend but She doesn't seem to be so serious about it.
Of course, I'm no expert either but to me it has seemed that 1-2 month relationships are pretty much just dust in the wind and sometimes they just might blow away.

And the one thing that irks me the most is that during the party She and I hung out at (we had talked a lot before that) I was dating another girl who had vaguely said something along the line that we (me and the girl I was dating) shouldn't make out or anything at the party but just enjoy the party. I thought we were dating exclusively so I didn't really mind, but apparently it was code for "We're not dating exclusively" so that eventually went sour.
Obviously, during this party She flirted with me and I could barely flirt back because I misstakenly believed that would be "wrong" against the girl I was dating.
And that party was when She instead found her dull later-boyfriend from Snorestown, Nowhere :smallsigh:

So the way I see it, I could be a jerk and break them up and then shortly afterwards probably get cheated on/dumped, I could be a jerk and damn fool for trying to break up what didn't look like a solid relationship but it really was or I could be lonely. Again. For even longer :smallfrown:

I always miss these kind of chances, I don't know what I'm doing wrong or what I should do with this one? I really like her, I ache all over :smallfrown:
I can never really write these posts in anything resembling a good mood. I'm sorry for ranting like this. :smallfrown:

If she says she's happy in her relationship and that she loves her current boyfriend, why not take her word for it? Really, she'd know better than anyone else. It might not be what you want to hear, but I'm fairly certain there's a lot going on her relationship that you're not privy to and, therefore, aren't really position to make an assessment on whether or not she's happy. The boyfriend might seem boring to you, but she must see something interesting in him or she wouldn't have started dating him in the first place.

Another thing to consider: some people just enjoy flirting and do so with people they feel comfortable with, regardless of being otherwise in a happy relationship with - even married to - someone else. Flirting can indicate romantic interest in someone, but sometimes it doesn't mean anything and is just a fun way to unwind. I'd advise figuring out whether this is the case with the girl you're interested in before you make any drastic moves.

Personally, I'd wait for her to make the first move (casual flirting doesn't count). But I also wouldn't be waiting around for her to come around - if there's someone else I'm interested in I wouldn't hesitate to explore that relationship. If she's with someone else, I certainly wouldn't be staying single on her account.


Relationshipy situation I heard about today:
Two girls and a boy living with each other, in a house owned by the boy - bought for him by his parents.
Boy and girl 1 are engaged.
Girl 1 is a supposedly reasonably strict Catholic, of the no-sex-before-marriage kind.
Thus, girl 1 is a virgin, and (obviously) has not "done it" with boy.
Girl 2 is, if I recall correctly, "polyamorous" (in the harem-keeping strain).
Girl 2 regularly gets it on with boy.
Girl 2 and boy openly display affection towards one another. Girl 1 apparently doesn't mind.

Thoughts?

Perhaps girl 1 is simply interested in the relationship for the companionship and doesn't give a lick about sex.

Maybe it's more of a marriage-of-convenience and there's something like citizenship or the like involved.

Also, there's a lot I'd personally put up with in lieu of being homeless (although this particular situation, I know from experience, would not be one of them).

Also, polygamous families the world over and throughout time seem to have managed just fine similar arrangements; I don't really see why it can't work for some people in a modern setting.

[Serpentine]

Mmmm... She mentioned looking forward to sex once married (I hope you don't mind if I'm not good at it, but we'll have plenty of practice after we're married!). I don't believe there's citizenship or anything involved. I don't think homelessness is a risk, although I'm sure the situation is very convenient for them all. Finally, I don't think this is... quite a polygamous relationship? More the guy gets it on with one and snuggles with the other, and they apparently are okay with it... rather than a group relationship? Y'know? The "polygamous" woman is the one I mentioned ages ago as my Boy's friend's semi-lady-friend who wants several "boyfriends" but didn't want them having any other "girlfriends".

[ghost_warlock]

So, basically, in order to avoid conflicts with her spiritual beliefs, Girl 1 has adapted to using Girl 2's amorous nature to sate Boy's...physical appetites...on the assumption that this arrangement will end once the marriage takes place.

I, personally, wouldn't be comfortable with this, but people do all sorts of crazy things I wouldn't do so I don't see why this should be any different. :smallwink:

Maybe it'll all work out, but I can't help but think that Girl 1 is a bit naive if she thinks the relationship between Girl 2 and Boy will just vanish once the Girl 1 + Boy marriage is official. Not always the case, but physical relationships tend to reinforce emotional relationships, even codependencies, in the process.

But, I don't need to tell you people that! :smalltongue:

[Syka]

Innis, I don't remember him, per se, but I do remember our time together. I have no idea what he is like now, and he definitely turned in to someone I didn't want to be with by the end of the relationship, but I don't feel this has bearing on how it was prior to the dissolution.

I understand where you are coming from, though. It took me probably a year or more to get over the RAGEHATEANGER reaction. It's only been in the last year or two that I'm able to think of him without it triggering any...upset, I guess.

A new relationship doesn't just erase the old one, either. I'm very happy with Oz and have been for three years now. Sadly, I've still had to battle issues left over from Ex. And the memories of the good times are still around, too. It may be different, but once the feeling of RAGEHATEANGER (founded though the are) subside, and they likely will, you might find yourself more amenable to this.



Serp, that is certainly an...odd situation. You are sure she is aware of the arrangement (stranger things have happened). Or she could be in denial? If she's verbally confirmed she knows, though, I have NO idea. I have a feeling it might be along the lines of what someone else suggested, the "I won't put out, but she's willing to, so...why not? At least I know what's going on." There is an element of control that she might feel she'd lose if he was just forbidden sex altogether.

Have you spoken to her about any of this? I'm curious what all involved actually think.

Personally, I don't think I could do something like that. When I was having...issues though, I did consider it. If the issues were not able to be solved, and I acclimated myself to the idea, it is something I was willing to discuss arranging. So...I can kinda see where she could potentially be coming from?

[Drascin]

Don't see a problem, personally. If all three people are alright with the arrangement, we certainly aren't anyone to predict doom and gloom at them simply because it's "unusual". I figure some people really do have the... maturity, presence of mind? to not be jealous and to be alright with being in such arrangements. I honestly do not even find it particularly hard to believe or something that, imagining myself in Girl 1's position, would be hard to stomach at all. But then, I'm not too experienced on how weird and irrational people apparently get (according to most sources) when it comes to these things, and to be honest sex has always looked to me more like a mildly interesting curiosity that looks nice but that I'm not in too much of a haste to try :smalltongue:. Might be why I prefer to have girl friends than to try and find a girlfriend, so to speak.

[Serpentine]

Oh, it's noone I actually know. All second-hand information from a guy (iirc) who is sorta-dating Girl 2.

[prufock]

So I know this girl who's bright, cute and sweet. Basically everything I'm looking for in a partner. There was chemistry between us when we met and we talk and flirt a lot. So far so good, right?
In a word: No.
She has a (kind of boring) boyfriend since about 1-2 months ago.

She and I still flirt a lot and she wants to come stay at my place, with just the two of us. She doesn't want me to come to Her place because She thinks then Her family might tease her about Her "new boyfriend". She says She loves her boyfriend but She doesn't seem to be so serious about it.
Of course, I'm no expert either but to me it has seemed that 1-2 month relationships are pretty much just dust in the wind and sometimes they just might blow away.

There is innocent flirting and not-so-innocent flirting. She may be engaged in the former, and you are obviously engaged in the latter. She may want to be friends, you want to be more than friends.

Stop flirting. Stop having her stay over. Don't be "that guy." Instead, grab yourself by the grapes (not literally) and tell her something along the following lines: "I really like you, and I'm very attracted to you. I'd like to ask you out, but if you're serious about this other guy it would be better if you didn't stay over any more." Flower it up however you want. Either she will rethink her position or she will rethink the way she behaves with you.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

On the subject of flirting, it's come to my attention that I'm thought to flirt with all girls.

Is friendly and polite the new flirt?

[MountainKing]

On the subject of flirting, it's come to my attention that I'm thought to flirt with all girls.

Is friendly and polite the new flirt?

It's the old flirt, but nobody bothers telling anyone that. :smallwink: I'm in the same boat you are, good sir.

[Malfunctioned]

Well Malfunctioned got a small boost in self-esteem today. :smallbiggrin:

He looked eyes with a VERY attractive girl whilst getting some lunch with some friends just outside college. Repeatedly. As she walked past he even turned to look again and caught her doing the same.

This same girl was also seen to be staring at Malfunctioned from across the floor in college in the break in-between classes. As my friend put it -


"She's either checking you out or she thinks that you're really odd looking."

Personally I'm hoping for the first.

I feel good, hopefully I'll be seeing that girl around college more.

I may even speak to her.

[Jonesh]

Aight, thanks for the advice everyone.
I'll have her over and see how it feels. No matter how it goes, it'll be nice. She'd make a good friend too, so it's a win/win.
But I realize some things quite clearly, e.g. if this works AND we become an item, I won't probably trust her, like ever. But that's fine, since I'm young and it'll fall apart sooner or later. I also realize this is kind of bad behaviour, but if I'm being nice I'll probably get nothing. And considering all the chances I've missed by being nice and considerate to a fault, I think I can handle being a jerk this time.
I talked with my friends about it and some other people too, and the consensus for me is to take the chance.
Mostly since my friends know how much I hate missing a chance and telling me to go for it :smalltongue:

[Pyrian]

I'll have her over and see how it feels.Sounds like a good plan. :smallamused:

[Innis Cabal]

Innis, I don't remember him, per se, but I do remember our time together. I have no idea what he is like now, and he definitely turned in to someone I didn't want to be with by the end of the relationship, but I don't feel this has bearing on how it was prior to the dissolution.

I understand where you are coming from, though. It took me probably a year or more to get over the RAGEHATEANGER reaction. It's only been in the last year or two that I'm able to think of him without it triggering any...upset, I guess.

A new relationship doesn't just erase the old one, either. I'm very happy with Oz and have been for three years now. Sadly, I've still had to battle issues left over from Ex. And the memories of the good times are still around, too. It may be different, but once the feeling of RAGEHATEANGER (founded though the are) subside, and they likely will, you might find yourself more amenable to this.

I can honestly say I'm not really mad at -HER-. Hurt...ya, a whole bunch. I'm more upset with myself for falling into another abusive relationship and not seeing it and letting it ruin alot of the good that was going to happen in my life. Looking back isn't the most constructive thing, but I gave up alot of her when it should have been warning bells all along.

But, I wanted out of the other abusive relationships in my life, I'd honestly thought I found the one person who loved me for who I was, and it'd get better. So, I took the escape route that was thrown to me after 20 yeares of abuse from my family, and even used the route to get some of the more harmful people out of my life as well. I took it to quick though, not really a leap before looking but a slide down a hill where you can't stop yourself and you end up in a cactus patch more hurt then when you escaped. But it wasn't so bad at first, I struggled but she helped out in her own way. But really taking a hard long look at the whole relationship, it wouldn't have lasted in marrige and been messier.

And certainly a new relationship won't heal all the wounds, clearly I make bad choices when it comes to them in the first place for all the wrong reasons. Not to say I didn't love my Ex, I mean...I think I did. It's difficult to tell really given everything. I liked the idea of not being alone, something I'm dealing with now, and I certainly felt affection towards her but did I convey it? I really can't answer, and sure as hell won't be asking -her- since the last time I spoke with her was New Years Eve as I hauled her and the couch she was on out of my apartment. But there are times when I feel maybe I didn't, that I let the fear of being hurt extend to far, and pushed her away when I should have been trying to keep her close. Various Shrink friends have told me I have this problem and tried to adress it, so I really won't refute it as a possibility of the relationship going sour. I'm certainly not blameless, we all make mistakes.

But all said, I really am not ready for a new relationship. I've struggled for years with my sexuality, and it was a rift in my previous relationship when my Ex found out that I was attracted to men...and I can't help but think it led to the eventual split between us in some major ways. And at the end of this long and boring story, I'd honestly prefer a guy. I understand them, I can relate and I'm honestly more attracted to them when I sit down and think hard on it. But it wouldn't be fair to anyone comming into a relationship with me to have to deal with my issues right off the bat, and me dealing with them while trying to overcome them for someone else...that would be to stressful and neither myself or my partner needs to be put through that.

I'll treasure the good times, because they were good. But I won't think fondly or treasure her, because she really didn't facilitate the good times, she just made it easier for me to see that they were possible if I tried hard enough. So I can thank her for that...I suppose, but I can't thank her for the threeish years of emotional hell I had to endure on top of the rest of it.

[Malfunctioned]

Sounds like a good plan. :smallamused:

Did you read that as I read it? Because I feel extremely immature for reading/thinking/laughing at that.

But in all seriousness, good luck dude. I hope you get the outcome you want. :smallsmile:

[arguskos]

...the last time I spoke with her was New Years Eve as I hauled her and the couch she was on out of my apartment.
Ok, I've no dog in the current fight in this thread, but I wanted to let you know that the quoted section of a sentence is the most amusing mental image I've had in days. Thank you for a great 10 seconds right there. :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: @Mal: you are not alone in that dude, trust me.

[Syka]

Innis, that is incredible that you recognize that about yourself. So many people ignore the fact that they have things they NEED to get over on their own, and having a partner would complicate that. I wish you the best of luck. One thing in your favor is that you can recognize the patterns of an abusive or unhealthy relationship and thus take action quicker, now.

Jonesh, I'd just like to say that "not helping someone cheat" is not the same as "nice and considerate to a fault". It is essentially equivalent with "basic human kindness". Just sayin'.

[Jonesh]

Jonesh, I'd just like to say that "not helping someone cheat" is not the same as "nice and considerate to a fault". It is essentially equivalent with "basic human kindness". Just sayin'.

Ah, you missunderstood. I meant that I am usually always nice and considerate to a fault. However, in this unique situation I am willing to stretch my otherwise high morals to do a bad thing but with possibly a nice (albeit completely selfish) outcome for me. Since I've got kind of bad luck when it comes to women.
E.g. just the day before yesterday, while walking the dog a cute girl with her dog says "Hi!" in a very pleasant manner, I didn't even have time to stop and talk but I just had a brainfart by saing "Hi" and keep on walking, realising a few seconds later that "oh, I guess I should have stopped."

The most funny story in that vein was when a girl I fancied for a few months coyly asked me if I had MSN or something. "Oh yeah, but my internet's down so it's no use.". We finish training, wish each other a happy christmas and I NEVER SAW HER AGAIN! :smalleek:
My excuse? Well, my internet was down. And I was 16 goddammit I was completely clueless :smallbiggrin:

I could go on and on and on... But that would be pointless :smalltongue:

EDIT: I'd NEVER EVER do this to a real friend obviously.

[Innis Cabal]

Ok, I've no dog in the current fight in this thread, but I wanted to let you know that the quoted section of a sentence is the most amusing mental image I've had in days. Thank you for a great 10 seconds right there. :smallbiggrin:

Always glad to help :smallsmile:

In restrospect, even I find it pretty amusing. So I guess there are a few things I can look back at that I did with her and laugh.


Innis, that is incredible that you recognize that about yourself. So many people ignore the fact that they have things they NEED to get over on their own, and having a partner would complicate that. I wish you the best of luck. One thing in your favor is that you can recognize the patterns of an abusive or unhealthy relationship and thus take action quicker, now.

Well, thank you. :smallredface:

Unfortunatly, knowing (while half the battle) is only as good as the ability to overcome the issue. Knowing the enemy so to speak is all well and good...but taking a garden hoe to a plot filled with rocks dosn't do you alot of good.

I should have known the signs for the relationship before this, my mother spent the first 15 (After age 5) years of my life teaching me the awful things people can do to one another. Things my Ex seemed to have been jotting down on some mystical ledger. It's true what they way, you look for people like your parents. The idea itself disgusts and worries me...I don't think I could handle a man like my mother.

The statistic that people from abused relationships tend to keep getting into them is sadly true as well, at least in all the cases I've ever seen which is another worry of mine. I don't think I could take another abusive relationship, because that'd be the last time I ever bothered with a relationship ever again.

[Malfunctioned]

Ok, I've no dog in the current fight in this thread, but I wanted to let you know that the quoted section of a sentence is the most amusing mental image I've had in days. Thank you for a great 10 seconds right there. :smallbiggrin:


This actually reminds me of a time just after a break-up with my ex. I was very drunk at a party and ended up making-out with the kind of girl that got me into the situation in the first place. I realised what I was doing and how I didn't want to do it anymore. So I stopped kissing her and stood up.

With that girl on my lap.

Except she wasn't on my lap anymore.

[Copacetic]

This actually reminds me of a time just after a break-up with my ex. I was very drunk at a party and ended up making-out with the kind of girl that got me into the situation in the first place. I realised what I was doing and how I didn't want to do it anymore. So I stopped kissing her and stood up.

With that girl on my lap.

Except she wasn't on my lap anymore.

Bwahahahahahahaha. Most amusing thing I've read all day. Also, good luck with your college chicka. :smallsmile:

[Serpentine]

*WHOMP*
Well Malfunctioned got a small boost in self-esteem today. :smallbiggrin:Malfunctioned needs self-esteem boosts? :smallconfused: :smalleek:
I may have been chatted up a bit by a Saudi boy the other day. Or maybe he was being nice. I did kiss my boyfriend in front of him just a few minutes prior, sooo... But anyway, I got a twix and a mars bar cuz he was giving out chocolates cuz it was the end of Ramadan :smallcool: I think he might've invited me to an end-of-Ramadan celebration, but I get kinda flustered with accents and imperfect English* so I didn't follow it up >.< 'course, I had work too. Anyway, I have decided I shall befriend him :smallcool: ...if I ever see him again :smallfrown:


*Last Saturday I tried to apologise to an African regular for being such a clueless pain the Saturday before, and he inquired as to whether I am hearing disabled >.< I actually did a hearing test thing... but I wasn't paying attention and didn't hear the diagnosis :smallsigh:

[Coidzor]

That's... pretty sad, Serps. :smallfrown: Also, who are you whomping? :smallconfused:

People who use others who are established as being in unrequited love with them for relationship advice are weird.

[Serpentine]

Why sad? I got chokkit :smallcool: And there's no particular reason to think I won't see him again. If nothing else, once I start walking to and from uni again, I walk right past the mosque.
And it was the sound effect that I heard upon reading Mal's story.

[Coidzor]

Why sad? I got chokkit :smallcool: And there's no particular reason to think I won't see him again. If nothing else, once I start walking to and from uni again, I walk right past the mosque.
And it was the sound effect that I heard upon reading Mal's story.

Ahh, I dunno if whomp really goes with a floozy hitting the floor. More like a flumph. :smallamused:


I actually did a hearing test thing... but I wasn't paying attention and didn't hear the diagnosis

[Serpentine]

Heh. Yeah, pretty sad :smalltongue: It's free, though, over the phone, so I'll do it again sometime soon.

[Terry576]

Alright, this is my first post here, and it's about a girl.

You see, I talked to this girl once or twice last year, and then transferred. Turns out, she goes to my new school, and she's really fun, and nice, and sweet.

Of course, I have the problem of being good at talking to girls, and being well known for being sarcastic. This means that if I ask her out, she'll think I'm joking. And then there's the fact that I've got more secrets then a bloody Final Fantasy game, and I've told a total of one person throughout my life.

Help me.

[DeadManSleeping]

If she thinks you're joking when you ask her out (very unlikely unless you make that joke a lot), you just give her a quizzical/hurt look when she laughs. She'll figure you out fast enough if she's got a brain. And possibly feel guilty enough to go out with you even if she wouldn't have normally.

As for the logistics involved with having a lot of secrets when in a relationship, I'm not sure why you're dating someone you can't see yourself opening up to (eventually). Doesn't mean you tell them you murdered someone on your first date (whether you did or not, it's just a bad move), but if you're worried about them ever finding out ever, well...is this someone you really want to carry on with?

[Ignition]

@Terry: A few pointers :smallwink:

Advice the First: You are not required to provide the answers to every 'secret' you have to someone you don't know - regardless of how much you like them. Being 'open' has a lot of grey areas, after all; I know I can be open about some things to some people, and not with other things to those same people. Don't worry about her finding out your secrets, and really don't worry about full disclosure, and odds are it won't be a problem. If you feel comfortable with it, then it'll come out naturally, and if you don't, well, that's your business.

The caveat to Advice the First: If you have a secret that affects her or could affect her - for example, "I like to choke/be choked during sex", or "I killed my last girlfriend for saying the word 'Tomato'" - then that may be worthwhile to bring up as soon as you feel you can trust her with the information. The key word there is trust: sometimes, you have to give it to get it, and other times, it's just a matter of persistence. But if you're really interested in the girl, it would pay to at least attempt to put a little trust in her. If it goes unrewarded, well, come on back and tell us what went wrong :smallwink:

Advice the Second: If you go into asking her out assuming she's not going to take it seriously/as seriously as you want her to, make sure to adjust your delivery. Think of it like method acting, roleplaying; act like you're serious, think serious thoughts, get her attention without resorting to the usual sarcasm and the like. "Hey (Girl's Name), I would like to take you to (activity). Sound like fun?" It's just that simple. If it helps, practice it to another friend or a mirror or something. Make sure you're in comfortable clothes and you're well-fed and not sick; ask in a way and at a time when neither of you will be distracted during the asking, and for God's sake, remember she's just this girl you know, just another human being, it's not the end of the world if she says yes or no :smallwink: . Relax, breathe, and ask her. It'll be fine either way.

Good luck! :smallbiggrin:

[xPANCAKEx]

Terry576

if through conversation you've found out shes fun/nice/sweet then it sounds like you're doing just fine at talking to her

as for asking her out - go for it, just dont make a big deal out of it. If she thinks you're joking, follow up "oh ok... guess i'll just HAVE to take you out now to prove a point"

[arguskos]

Advice the Second: If you go into asking her out assuming she's not going to take it seriously/as seriously as you want her to, make sure to adjust your delivery. Think of it like method acting, roleplaying; act like you're serious, think serious thoughts, get her attention without resorting to the usual sarcasm and the like. "Hey (Girl's Name), I would like to take you to (activity). Sound like fun?" It's just that simple. If it helps, practice it to another friend or a mirror or something. Make sure you're in comfortable clothes and you're well-fed and not sick; ask in a way and at a time when neither of you will be distracted during the asking, and for God's sake, remember she's just this girl you know, just another human being, it's not the end of the world if she says yes or no :smallwink: . Relax, breathe, and ask her. It'll be fine either way.
This is actually really good advice. The saying "all the world's a stage" comes to mind. I'd keep that in mind at all times, but that's just me.

It does help me when in uncomfortable situations to remember that everyone is merely an actor in a grand play, so act like your life depends on it (it may well, after all).

[Delwugor]

This means that if I ask her out, she'll think I'm joking.
Let her determine if she thinks you are joking or not. Don't assume or predict ... especially when it comes to females. :smalleek:

Ask her out, let her say "yes" and then follow the sage advice that Delwugor gives to his boys. "You have no idea how a first date will turn out, so the best thing to do is just relax and have a good time."


And then there's the fact that I've got more secrets then a bloody Final Fantasy game, and I've told a total of one person throughout my life.
Don't worry about being open and telling secrets until you are in a serious relationship with possible commitments.

[Keld Denar]

Huh, so I just got hit on by a rather interesting cougar. She gave me her business card and told me to email her so I did on my phone right in front of her to call her bluff cause most women older than me act all high and mighty but are really all talk. The ball is in her court, I'm curious if she'll dare respond. All I have to say is...lawl.

[Ignition]

Huh, so I just got hit on by a rather interesting cougar. She gave me her business card and told me to email her so I did on my phone right in front of her to call her bluff cause most women older than me act all high and mighty but are really all talk. The ball is in her court, I'm curious if she'll dare respond. All I have to say is...lawl.

I think there's an important question here that you have forgotten to answer. And that question is: how hot is said cougar? :smallbiggrin:

@arguskos: Thanks! Can I quote you on that? :smallbiggrin:

[MountainKing]

I think there's an important question here that you have forgotten to answer. And that question is: how hot is said cougar? :smallbiggrin:

@arguskos: Thanks! Can I quote you on that? :smallbiggrin:

Hot enough to send the email in front of her, instead of pretending? :smallwink:

[Keld Denar]

Surprisingly pretty hot. Not 20 year old cheerleader hot, but she has an alure. I dunno, I think its just funny to call her our on her rather outrageous flirts. Might be kinda interesting to just see how high I can escalate it...got nothing really to lose.

[Ignition]

Surprisingly pretty hot. Not 20 year old cheerleader hot, but she has an alure.

The crowd demands more details, sir. :smallwink:

I do like the slightly disturbing mental images I have of "outrageous flirts", though, so that'll distract me in the meantime :smallbiggrin:

[Tonal Architect]

I was refered to as arrogant, today. I didn't mind, considering whose opinion that one was, and what we were discussing.

You see, it's funny. I feel confortable, relaxed, "on top of my game" when discussing any subject with others. I'm very assertive in those situations, to the point of being intimidating, ocasionally, especially when I'm confortable with the subject at hand and the other parties aren't. In that sense, you could say I really feel at home amidst any sort of debate.

Which just contrasts in a very obvious manner with how shy I am at everything else. I mean... I met a girl this other week, and we're both shy. It never came to my attention how shy I was, though, and but she hasn't... shied away from pointing that one out to me. I feel unconfortable with her in many ways, even to the point where even though she pointed to me it was okay for me to kiss her, I still hesitated. I did kiss her in the end, and it was great but still... By the way, no relationship here. We're very much incompatible in our outlooks of life, so it's just... Err, skin against skin.

Maybe I'm far more of an introvert than I thought I was. Maybe I mistook familiarity with a situation for true outspokeness. I'm far from being as self-assured as I thought I was.

And that seems to be a problem with women. Women seem to enjoy confident men, and really, I might be able to deal with myself better than most, but that would be damage control; I'm still a very vulnerable person, far from a confident and aggressive person.

So yeah, I'm working on my confidence, and with not taking blows to it as seriously as I might have had. Maybe it came to my attention that real people are Not as easy to deal with as ideas are... And becoming familiar with real people, especially women and men in a romantic context, might take a while, I'm afraid.

Last but not least... I've been feeling this weird urge to kiss random people in random contexts. I don't usually go along with that impulse, common sense prevailing, as well as a good deal of shyness; last night, while talking to a friend about the aforementioned girl (whom I was with in the same night, btw), I felt like both our bodies were saying, "go for it", but... Well, I didn't. I don't know why, shyness, fear of rejection, or fear that it would screw up our friendship entirely ( ...friend bin here? :/ ) in case it Did happen, because even though the expression "amoral libertine" could describe my friend in a very precise fashion, I really didn't want to take chances and have that kiss; really, it would have been just for fun, and I can't afford to let go of that friendship. A little fun, no strings attached, would have been nice, though. :X

So... Has anybody felt this urge, too?

[arguskos]

@arguskos: Thanks! Can I quote you on that? :smallbiggrin:
Sure thing man. I've not been sigged in a long while, if that's what you're asking. If not, well... yeah, you can always quote me. :smalltongue:

[DeadManSleeping]

http://xkcd.com/458/

To be more explicit, yes, other people do deal with this sort of thing.

[Malfunctioned]

Okay, so along with 'Incredibly hot college girl' who I caught checking me out, again, today I seem to have attracted another very attractive girl who is into video games, cosplay and animé (specifically her favourite animé character was one who I was planning to cosplay as....).

She also has amazing blue eyes.

This college year is GOOD for Malfunctioned.

EDIT: As a little add-on to the first girl thing, I actually got a proper look at her today; shortish black hair, quite a few piercings and very very cute. My kinda girl. We shared a glance as we were passing each other at the entrance of shop. I turned round to see my friend about to hi-five me as he said "I think she might of just called dibs on you.

Also Dayyuuum!"

[Coidzor]

:smalltongue: Well don't just wait around for them to get bored, establish contact!

[Malfunctioned]

:smalltongue: Well don't just wait around for them to get bored, establish contact!

Well the first girl seems to reduce me to a state of "Harglebargle guh duh bluh" but that shall hopefully be overcome, if I do end up speaking to her, which I shall try to do but I haven't actually seen her anywhere in college except for when she was talking a tutor at one point from halfway across the hall.

For the other girl I have already established contact, we've been messaging online quite a bit and we've already planned to go to the MCM Expo together. I think that's pretty good.

[loopy]

Okay, so along with 'Incredibly hot college girl' who I caught checking me out, again, today I seem to have attracted another very attractive girl who is into video games, cosplay and animé (specifically her favourite animé character was one who I was planning to cosplay as....).

She also has amazing blue eyes.

This college year is GOOD for Malfunctioned.

EDIT: As a little add-on to the first girl thing, I actually got a proper look at her today; shortish black hair, quite a few piercings and very very cute. My kinda girl. We shared a glance as we were passing each other at the entrance of shop. I turned round to see my friend about to hi-five me as he said "I think she might of just called dibs on you.

Sounds like we have a similar taste in women, Malfunctioned. Keep us posted on how it goes. :smallbiggrin:

The biggest rave of the year is on Saturday. I traditionally get the number of at least one cute girl per hour at these events. Thats at least eleven new girls to flirt with outrageously, hurray!

Hopefully that'll be enough to distract me from the one who got away, who will also be at the event. :smallsigh:

[Ponderthought]

So, I have a question.. How exactly dose one judge female attraction? I seem to have the people reading skills of a bear on a tequila bender.

[Coidzor]

So, I have a question.. How exactly dose one judge female attraction? I seem to have the people reading skills of a bear on a tequila bender.

So they all look delicious? :smallconfused:

[Ponderthought]

So they all look delicious? :smallconfused:

You could say that. Imagine if you were a bear and you saw a really tasty human. You try and eat them but they just got out of a bad relationship and have abandonment issues.

Hmm, that's not quite right.

How bout, you eat them and only find out later their full of poison ivy and horse tranquilizers.

Whatever. metaphor fail. :smallsigh:

[Serpentine]

So, I have a question.. How exactly dose one judge female attraction? I seem to have the people reading skills of a bear on a tequila bender.Biologically speaking, physcial attraction can often be explained by evolutionary factors. Symmetry, for example, is a sign of fertility - thus, the more asymmetrical a person is, the less visually appealing they're likely to be. "Average" features have also been shown to be a major factor in beauty - average nose size, average distance between eyes, average face shape, etc. I am not sure if this has been related to fertility or fitness. Body shape, on the other hand, has: a hip-to-waist ratio of 0.9 for men and 0.7 for women has been related solidly with fertility and health, as well as aesthetic quality.
But, biology aside, a lot of it just comes down to personal taste and experience.

How's that? :smalltongue: Or did you mean "how can I tell when a female's attracted?"? Body language, mostly.

[Ponderthought]

"how can I tell when a female's attracted?"

That's the one! See, im very bad at reading body language. Almost catastrophically so. The last two relationships ive been in have begun online, and thus, I came in with some vague knowledge of the situation, thus avoiding this particular hurdle, but now that im back on the market so to speak..well it feels abit like navigating a minefield with intuition and a stick.

[Drakevarg]

Personally, I had no idea my girlfriend was attracted to me until I admitted as much to her. I basically just took a shot in the dark and hoped for the best. As I had said to her, "Well, you haven't recoiled in disgust, so it's a start." :smalltongue:

Speaking of which, this whole 'being in love' thing is kind of new to me. Basically my question is, "is it normal for a grumpy introverted crumudgeon who, after careful consideration, realized he didn't actually love a single person in his life* to suddenly turn into a big lovey-dovey puppy as if a switch had been flipped?"

'Cause that's pretty much what happened and while it's pleasant, it's kinda freaking me out. :smalleek:

*That is to say, the highest emotional value placed on anyone in my life was "respect and loyalty beyond what logic would allow for." Which I would describe as kind of emotionally grey.

[Coidzor]

That's the one! See, im very bad at reading body language. Almost catastrophically so. The last two relationships ive been in have begun online, and thus, I came in with some vague knowledge of the situation, thus avoiding this particular hurdle, but now that im back on the market so to speak..well it feels abit like navigating a minefield with intuition and a stick.

There's your problem. People generally don't like getting sticked very much until after they get to know ya.

More seriously, there are some general cues you can learn to keep in mind, such as mirroring, but anything useful is slipping my mind and it's more practice and getting a feel for handling human interactions than something that can be learned via this medium.

[Serpentine]

Yeah. Biology does weird and primal things to a person.

Hmm. How could you tell if I'm attacted to you...? Lets see... Increased eye-contact. Genuine smile upon seeing you and especial pleasedness to se you. Going out of my way to be around you. Tending to try to be near you in social situations. I might play with my hair or fidget, but that's also a general awkwardness habit. Finding excuses to touch you (caution: offers of massages can be a sign of interest, or of boredom, or of horror movie anxiety (I like to do something with my hands when watching horror), or an excuse to start a massage thing going to open up an opportunity to be near someone else I'm interested in, or a combination of the above).
Note: I sometimes get "favourite people", especially new ones, that doesn't necessarily indicate (long-term) romantic interest. Could lead to it, but many of these signs also apply to, for example, a female friend of a friend who has a boyfriend who I think is an adorable little nerd.

[Drascin]

Speaking of which, this whole 'being in love' thing is kind of new to me. Basically my question is, "is it normal for a grumpy introverted crumudgeon who, after careful consideration, realized he didn't actually love a single person in his life* to suddenly turn into a big lovey-dovey puppy as if a switch had been flipped?"

'Cause that's pretty much what happened and while it's pleasant, it's kinda freaking me out. :smalleek:

*That is to say, the highest emotional value placed on anyone in my life was "respect and loyalty beyond what logic would allow for." Which I would describe as kind of emotionally grey.

Eh, it happens - I was much the same way. And while I still wouldn't say I love many people, and none romantically (in fact, I'd say the one person I really do love is my little sister. After so many years of being an indifferent curmudgeon, finding out that I genuinely wanted to do everything in my hand to make this little noisy munchkin's life better at any cost to myself was a peculiar revelation :smalltongue:), I have definitely gotten a lot mre hopeful and idealistic as I grew up. There's still a bit of the old cynicysm in the backburner, but I've changed rather greatly. It's really kind of funny :smallbiggrin:.

[Drakevarg]

Eh, it happens - I was much the same way. And while I still wouldn't say I love many people, and none romantically (in fact, I'd say the one person I really do love is my little sister. After so many years of being an indifferent curmudgeon, finding out that I genuinely wanted to do everything in my hand to make this little noisy munchkin's life better at any cost to myself was a peculiar revelation :smalltongue:), I have definitely gotten a lot mre hopeful and idealistic as I grew up. There's still a bit of the old cynicysm in the backburner, but I've changed rather greatly. It's really kind of funny :smallbiggrin:.

I'm not talking about a gradual change in outlook. I'm talking about a completely new facet of my personality that has grown in in the last six weeks or so.

("In in." Some things sound perfectly reasonably spoken aloud, but damn if they don't sound stupid typed.)

[Ponderthought]

I'm not talking about a gradual change in outlook. I'm talking about a completely new facet of my personality that has grown in in the last six weeks or so.

Well that's bound to freak you out, but hell, weirder things've happened. If it feels like a positive change, roll with it.


Thanks for the advice, by the way. I'll have to watch out for some "tell's"
(Yes, another way to draw parallels between human interaction and texas hold em.)

[Drakevarg]

Well that's bound to freak you out, but hell, weirder things've happened. If it feels like a positive change, roll with it.

That's the plan. I'm just a bit tossed for a loop at the moment, in the same way that you would if you came home one day and someone had left a giant pile of cash on your bed.

Even if you just roll with it and take the money, you keep getting that nagging feeling that either you aren't supposed to have it, or you'll wake up any second and it'll be gone. :smalleek:

[DeadManSleeping]

(caution: offers of massages can be a sign of interest, or of boredom, or of horror movie anxiety (I like to do something with my hands when watching horror), or an excuse to start a massage thing going to open up an opportunity to be near someone else I'm interested in, or a combination of the above).

Or an excuse to start a massage thing going because her back is killing her seriously (I've seen this happen before).

Anyway, time for a sort-of-romance-related question from me to y'all.

I happen to find myself in the peculiar conundrum of feeling romantically unfulfilled, but I'm not really that interested in anybody I know. Obviously, a good solution is meeting new people, but here comes the problem: I hate parties, I hate bars, I hate clubs (the dancey boozey kind, not the school activity kind), and I'm in all the school activities I can be. But that's where all the new people are. How am I supposed to make new friends and (possibly) find a lady who actually piques my interest?

As a side note, it's not that I have high standards, I just don't get that romantically worked up about any one person. No idea if this strategy could even get around that problem. But hey, I like meeting new people.

[Malbordeus]

So they all look delicious? :smallconfused:

nom nom nom

[MountainKing]

So, I have a question.. How exactly dose one judge female attraction? I seem to have the people reading skills of a bear on a tequila bender.

I love it when people compare themselves to bears. My own personal favorite is telling people that "I have a "bedside manner" that ranges from loving grizzly mama bear to insomniac grizzly mama in the middle of February." :smallbiggrin:

[Ignition]

Can't really help you, DMS; when confronted with that same problem myself, and saw the options "Do things I don't like to meet new people" and "Lament not having people I'm interested in", I chose "Build up a life that does not require other people to make it fulfilling" :smallwink:

I dunno, maybe it's kind of 'sad' or whatever, but romance was never really part of my upbringing. It was never really part of any of the relationships I saw around me or the ones I was a part of, so I don't really understand the appeal or the necessity. But hey, different strokes for different folks!

[Form]

Well, I've developed an interest in another girl again (this time not from work, huzzah!) and I'll most likely be running into her on a regular basis. Making conversation with this girl is far easier than with my previous potential romantic interest and I feel way better than I did a couple of months ago.

Over the course of the next few weeks/months I'll just talk to her from time to time when I see her. I'm not going to ask her out (at least not for a while), but I guess I'm just going to see how things develop.

Right now I'd like some advice/tips on how/when to flirt, signs to look for (both positive and negative) and on what would be a good way to find out whether she's already seeing someone or not. As for the last bit I think I'll probably just have to ask one of her friends about it. Other comments in general are also appreciated if you have them of course. :smallsmile:

[DeadManSleeping]

Can't really help you, DMS; when confronted with that same problem myself, and saw the options "Do things I don't like to meet new people" and "Lament not having people I'm interested in", I chose "Build up a life that does not require other people to make it fulfilling" :smallwink:

There's a difference between "requiring" and "wanting" :smallannoyed:

[Ignition]

There's a difference between "requiring" and "wanting" :smallannoyed:

You want something you don't require? That sounds like the actual problem to me, haha. :smallwink:

There's always "Do something you normally wouldn't with a more positive mindset, and you might be surprised," I guess. That doesn't work out for me all that well, but people do it a lot and are pleasently surprised by the outcome, so maybe it'll work for you. Also "Go looking for something you want to do, and you will meet similar minded people in the process."

[Pyrian]

You want something you don't require?As the Man Show demonstrated by walking juggies past a Buddhist temple, they may be monks but they're still guys! :smallamused:

Anyway, if you've already exhausted the possibilities of the school activities you're involved in, you may have to consider non-school activities, or even simply changing up which activities you attend.

[Ignition]

As the Man Show demonstrated by walking juggies past a Buddhist temple, they may be monks but they're still guys! :smallamused:

Well played, sir :smallwink: Though that probably just means they have either been in the temple too long, or not long enough, haha.

But you are correct, variety is the spice of life, and if doing one thing doesn't help, then something else may; you don't know until you try.

[xPANCAKEx]

form

one piece of advice - dont set a time limit on asking her out. Sometimes the best things in life and romance happen spontaniously (infact nearly all of them do). For instance: if next you two were walking and talking about a classic movie you both loved and was being shown at a cinema, then you'd be foolish to think 'well i wont ask her to go, as its too soon'... But thats just one example

As for how to spot someone in a relationship - most people will mention it casually just in conversation. Couples do spend a lot of time together so she'll soon mention it if shes got someone on the go ;)

if you're getting along already, theres not need to worry about 'how to flirt', but then the occasional cheeky wind up never goes astray. Gentle teasing is one of the basics of flirting.

[junglesteve]

Well I feel like a bad ass! I have been using this okcupid thing and I messaged a woman 190 miles or so away from me, she responded and after a short conversation invited me to a larp! I have never larped in my life but you can be sure I'll be going! Hopefully it turns out alright, if not, at least I'll have some fun larping.

[xPANCAKEx]

junglesteve

190 miles is long distance if anything does start... but before you get into worry about how much of your time will be spent traveling to see this woman, STOP.

the worst thing you can do when going on the charm offensive is think ahead too much

you seem to have the right attitude in going expecting only to have a good time. As a slight heads up, be careful that she may only be trying to lure in a new addition to their larp group and not looking for a relationship

[Coidzor]

Also, make sure someone knows what's happening in case you disappear under mysterious circumstances.

[xPANCAKEx]

Also, make sure someone knows what's happening in case you disappear under mysterious circumstances.

or wake up in a bath full of ice, in intense pain and a note saying "i've taken your kidneys. Call a doctor"

[Ponderthought]

Organ theft is the worst kind of rejection.

[RabbitHoleLost]

Organ theft is the worst kind of rejection.

Is it the worst kind of rejection, or the worst morning after?

[Ponderthought]

Is it the worst kind of rejection, or the worst morning after?

Depends on whether ice and sedatives are involved.

[Copacetic]

Depends on whether ice and sedatives are involved.

What kind of sedatives should play a role as well. Any woman who gives me Vicodin may take an internal organ of her choosing. :smalltongue:

[Marillion]

So one of the girls at work is trying to set me up with someone else who used to work there now that she's single. Someone I actually had a bit of a crush on, and who according to my buddies in the kitchen probably liked me too.

I disagree, of course. I thought she had nothing but utter contempt for me. But then, I think that about most womenfolk. It's always a pleasant surprise when I'm wrong.:smalltongue:

So when my friend brings me up, if her first reaction isn't shuddering in revulsion or laughing uncontrollably, I just might get her number. :smallcool:

[Mary Leathert]

Not exactly a relationship yet, but some possible ones.

Yesterday, I put my information on a dating website for the first time ever. And I already have got seven answers that seem potential on some level (and some inappropriate/nonsense ones, but those I deleted).

The problem is that I don't know how to go from here. (I have never dated, or even tried to date before). What is appropriate? Mostly whether it is acceptable to respond to more than one of the guys (through e-mail type of things)? What about dating, if I actually get to meet anyone in real life? Should that be the point where I "drop" the rest?

I'm just afraid I'll offend someone. And don't even know whether I actually want to go dating any of them, or whether they will respond anymore when I finally get the courage to mail them. But well, blame it on inezperience and nervousness about the realization that someone could actually be interested in me.

[Malfunctioned]

Okay, a small update.

Incredibly-hot-girl-who-for-some-reason-keeps-seriously-checking-me-out is now renamed either Ihgwfsrkscm (pronounced Ig-woof-serk-scum) or Kipling (you get a cookie for figuring out why). I saw her again today sitting with some friends, caught her staring at me as I walked past and out of the college with a friend. I tried to smile at her. I think I did, either that or it ended up as a smirk.

Second girl is still very awesome. She no longer has pink hair but still looks good with strawberry-blond. When she had to leave for a class yesterday we hugged (as I do with most of my friends) though this ended up quite a bit longer than normal. It happened again later but we both pulled out leaving our arms wrapped around the other for a short time. As me and the same friend mentioned before left he turned to and said "Prolonged hugs much?". She is also quite a bit of a geek and I seem to be one of the biggest geeks she knows, if not the biggest, when I mentioned my 'dream' to become the King of Geeks she said that she would make me a video game crown if she got to be the Queen.
:smallredface::smallbiggrin::smallcool:

[arguskos]

I actually have a negligible "hey that's hopeful" moment to share.

So, I'm a member of a certain online dating site (why not, right?) and in my browsing today, I came across a profile that literally made me stop and go "...wow". I read it 4 times, tried to think of something to say, was about to chicken out and just move on, and then I said to myself, "Args, just say SOMETHING, you've got to go ahead and send this girl a message. Anyone that engages you so completely for so long is worth a risk to get to talk to." So I did. I'm really really REALLY fervently hoping she finds me curious enough to message back. *crosses fingers*

Yes, it's minor and all that and whatever but dammit I feel good about all that.

[Dallas-Dakota]

Kipling (you get a cookie for figuring out why)
After the backpack brand name? :O

Also, you go dude!

[Malfunctioned]

After the backpack brand name? :O

Also, you go dude!

Nope, not quite. I'll expect some Britlanders to get the reference.

And thanks. I'm still surprised that females seem to be interested in me this college year. :smallbiggrin:

[MeatShield#236]

First off, good luck with whatever girl you decide to presue.

Secondly: Is it a reference to Rudyard Kipling? (I hope I spelled that right...)

[Coidzor]

White Man's Burden?

Why on earth would you associate that with a woman?:smallconfused:

[junglesteve]

junglesteve

190 miles is long distance if anything does start... but before you get into worry about how much of your time will be spent traveling to see this woman, STOP.

the worst thing you can do when going on the charm offensive is think ahead too much

you seem to have the right attitude in going expecting only to have a good time. As a slight heads up, be careful that she may only be trying to lure in a new addition to their larp group and not looking for a relationship

Well I tried not to get my hopes up I ended up doing it anyway :( (Btw my close friend mentioned she might be trying to lure a larp member to her group..)

Anyway, I ended up doing some larp action (It was more like a roam around this building while we do a game we could have done while sitting) But still I had fun while doing it. Honestly though, like I was saying, I tried not to but ended up getting my hopes up. The lady didn't even show :( Awww well... Back to the ocean.

[Malfunctioned]

First off, good luck with whatever girl you decide to presue.

Secondly: Is it a reference to Rudyard Kipling? (I hope I spelled that right...)

Thanks, again, :smallbiggrin:

And nope, still cold....

[Serpentine]

A Sudanese regular told me that he'd like to take me to Sudan and that they like whites in Africa. Is this a hit-upon y/n? If y, why is it that it pretty much only seems to be Africans and Middle Easterners who do so?* It... it doesn't mean I have a badonkadonk, does it? :smallfrown:^


*Not that I mind. I do like really dark, black skin, and that Saudi fellow was rather pretty... I just struggle with language differences is all, but it's my problem, I'll deal with it. Also I might be somewhat intimidated by the whole "Sudanese refugee who has probably lived in refugee camps for most of his life and could well have been conscripted as a child soldier at some point" thing <.<

^It is well-supported evidence-wise that Africans and people of African descent tend to find large bottoms aesthetically pleasing, more than other groups of people. Something to do with being a sign of good health, and in hot places it being better to have fat stores away from one's organs.

...

Too protesty? :smalltongue:

[DeadManSleeping]

Yes, you probably do have a badonkadonk(donk). But, hey, work at it, and you could be in a rap music video! :smalltongue:

As far as kipling, I've found a few possibilities:

Vaudeville
Mr. Kipling bakery products
An extremely nasty sexual act

That's all I got.

[Malfunctioned]

As far as kipling, I've found a few possibilities:

Vaudeville
Mr. Kipling bakery products
An extremely nasty sexual act

That's all I got.

Getting warmer. :smallbiggrin:

[Serpentine]

Yes, you probably do have a badonkadonk(donk). But, hey, work at it, and you could be in a rap music video! :smalltongue::eek:
Do not want!

[DeadManSleeping]

Getting warmer. :smallbiggrin:

Sadly, it's impossible to get any closer, as almost all baked goods can be used to refer to women.

Tart
Slice
Cupcake
Cherry pie

And that's just the beginning

[Malfunctioned]

Sadly, it's impossible to get any closer, as almost all baked goods can be used to refer to women.

Tart
Slice
Cupcake
Cherry pie

And that's just the beginning

It's their slogan really.

"Exceedingly Good".
Yay for anti-climaxes!

[xPANCAKEx]

:eek:
Do not want!

liar!


junglesteve

dont bother to even ask her for an explaination as to why she didnt turn up. Its up to her to get in touch and explain and also to make amends for it. And considering you traveled 190 miles for a no show, i'd probably not even entertain the idea of allowing her the opertunity to make up for it

[junglesteve]

liar!


junglesteve

dont bother to even ask her for an explaination as to why she didnt turn up. Its up to her to get in touch and explain and also to make amends for it. And considering you traveled 190 miles for a no show, i'd probably not even entertain the idea of allowing her the opertunity to make up for it

Yeah, even though I was really trying not to over think and get excited, the entire thing left a very bad taste in my mouth. I think I lost another point in humanity.

[xPANCAKEx]

Yeah, even though I was really trying not to over think and get excited, the entire thing left a very bad taste in my mouth. I think I lost another point in humanity.

well not to rub salt in the wound, but the first mistake was agreeing to drive 190 miles to meet a woman you've got a vague romantic interest in, that you've never met face to face, in a social setting unlikely to gain you any real 1-on-1 time to get know other... ESPECIALLY considering its larp so you would both have been pretending to be other people.

maybe not the wisest move?

but keep your chin up. learn from mistakes and dont repeat them

[Malfunctioned]

Okay, I think I might just go for the second girl. :smalltongue:

She's a massive gamer but stopped playing Halo: Reach for the first time just to speak to me on MSN (not that big but still....) and I just found out that she plays the same MMO as me. :smallcool:

I can actually hold a decent conversation with her without constantly wondering if I'm going to stick my foot in my mouth not to mention that she is very attractive. She also was asking me about my plans for tonight. Because of my Jewish family I spent tonight in a synagogue and at my grandparents house whilst I could of been with her if I read it right. :smallfrown:


And she likes my glasses. :smallcool: :smallredface:


I've also discovered something from one of my ex's friends who I've recently come back into contact with. The day after we broke up I went to talk things over with her. From that point there are two different versions of what happened.

My memories: We talked on the phone beforehand and I asked if I could see her. She said okay. I took an hours train and bus ride to get to her house arriving at about 8 PM. When she opened the door she said "You actually came..." (she had always thought that I wouldn't actually come to her if she needed me) and hugged me. We went up to her room and talked things over quite calmly, smiling and laughing quite a bit. We ended up lying on the bed and almost kissed before backing away. Then when I went to leave she grabbed me by the collar and kissed me. We then waited together outside her house before my lift home arrived.

What I've heard: (This is quite a bit shorter since I've only heard what he's said and he didn't want to get involved in it) I apparently was incredibly angry at my ex. Forced my way into her home and began arguing with her for about an hour. I also apparently tried to kiss her forcefully.

Yeah. :smallfrown:

[xPANCAKEx]

Malfunctioned

crappy news about the ex - but dont get too involved. Some people just cant help themselves when it comes to talking out of their ass and painting themselves as the victim. Those people who genuinely play the "oh you turned up when i needed you" card (and not the people just feigning it out of politeness) show either you really didnt give a rats ass about them or they're so caught up in their own little fantasy of how you feel their oblivious to the truth of the situation and so their 'memories' of events are usually sketchy and unreliable at best, outright fabrications at worst. If anyone ever asks you about you being ****ty to her, dont rise to it, dont get defense. Just give them a sigh, say something to effect of "yeah i heard she was talking some rubbish about me. pretty sad" and leave it at that.

As for the second girl - your unnavailability is not neccisarily a hinderence. Girls dont dig guys who are available 24/7. They like the chase too. Depending on how you play it, your commitments on the sabbath could be a bonus in your favour.

Suggest an alternative night and see what she says

[Serpentine]

liar!But... I don't want a big bottom :smallconfused: :smallfrown: Made only worse by the fact I've put on more weight this last week :smallsigh:

That sucks, Mal :smallfrown: How long ago was this? It is quite impressive how much one's memories can twist or even be invented whole cloth over time. Thinking of her memories, there, by the way.

[Ponderthought]

But... I don't want a big bottom Made only worse by the fact I've put on more weight this last week

There's nothin wrong with having abit of an ass. Asses are nice, for the most part.


Oh, an Mal, dont worry, shes obviously just has a case of Heinous Bitch syndrome. It tend's to affect memory.

[Serpentine]

Eh, donkeys are okay, but they really get gipped in D&D

:smalltongue:

[arguskos]

There's nothin wrong with having abit of an ass. Asses are nice, for the most part.
*breaks out the non-regulation extending 12-ft pole, looks at it, shakes head*

Naaaah, not gonna approach that comment. :smalltongue:


Oh, an Mal, dont worry, shes obviously just has a case of Heinous Bitch syndrome. It tend's to affect memory.
Imma roll with that though. Looking at it, I'm betting neither of you has a perfect story, but I'm certainly betting it didn't go down the way she thinks it did, just cause you seem pretty chill and I somehow don't get the "forces kisses" vibe from you. :smalltongue: Just ignore her and inform people that, no, you didn't do those things, and no, you're not a scumbag. Should all blow over.

[junglesteve]

well not to rub salt in the wound, but the first mistake was agreeing to drive 190 miles to meet a woman you've got a vague romantic interest in, that you've never met face to face, in a social setting unlikely to gain you any real 1-on-1 time to get know other... ESPECIALLY considering its larp so you would both have been pretending to be other people.

maybe not the wisest move?

but keep your chin up. learn from mistakes and dont repeat them

Lmfao, yeah, that was pretty much a bad plan. WELL! Onward, to glory, I guess.

[Skeppio]

Lmfao, yeah, that was pretty much a bad plan. WELL! Onward, to glory, I guess.

There ya go! Chin up, things'll go better next time. :smallsmile:

[Malfunctioned]

Imma roll with that though. Looking at it, I'm betting neither of you has a perfect story, but I'm certainly betting it didn't go down the way she thinks it did, just cause you seem pretty chill and I somehow don't get the "forces kisses" vibe from you. :smalltongue: Just ignore her and inform people that, no, you didn't do those things, and no, you're not a scumbag. Should all blow over.


Thanks guys. :smallsmile:

And I'm in no way saying that my memory is perfect but that is what I remember and I know that I'm not the kind of person that does that sort of thing. Those who know me know that me and anger just don't mix. At all.

About the girl, I would of suggested something else but our conversation lasted until about 2AM and by then it was too late. I'm seeing her in college tomorrow though, so perhaps then.....

[Coidzor]

But... I don't want a big bottom :smallconfused: :smallfrown: Made only worse by the fact I've put on more weight this last week :smallsigh:

As long as your ass isn't measured in axe-handles, you're ok.

If it is. Well. *coughs and hands a pamphlet on Alaska*

Forces kisses? Haha.

That reminds me of a stupid accusation leveled at me by one of my exes. She apparently had decided to kiss me on the cheek, only, she was being fairly obvious about it and I was looking at her so she was leaning in for a kiss while our faces were pointed at one another.

[junglesteve]

As long as your ass isn't measured in axe-handles, you're ok.

If it is. Well. *coughs and hands a pamphlet on Alaska*

Forces kisses? Haha.

That reminds me of a stupid accusation leveled at me by one of my exes. She apparently had decided to kiss me on the cheek, only, she was being fairly obvious about it and I was looking at her so she was leaning in for a kiss while our faces were pointed at one another. She was a bit flustered by that at the time, but apparently she griped about it a fair bit to my friend over AIM. Which is why it was especially fishy, in hindsight that she tried a second time and ended up catching me on the lips just because I turned to look at her and she had closed her eyes for it. Both of us actually tripped because of that one.

Never actually breathed a word of dissent about it until she was lambasting me for not being psychic and knowing she was really a lesbian and not bi like she had said she was.

And then she started dating my friend after openly stating to the both of us that she was a lesbian. I still have not gotten out of him what he actually said in response to this.

That sounds like one confused individual.

[Deathslayer7]

i need to talk to people, preferably multiple people so i can get an opinion on things. :smallsigh:

[xPANCAKEx]

i need to talk to people, preferably multiple people so i can get an opinion on things. :smallsigh:

as long as you seek advice rather than to vent then feel frr to drop me a pm

[Elentari]

My PM box is always open Deathslayer7.

[Pyrian]

Mine's open, too*.

*: results not guaranteed

[Odentin]

Same here, feel free to message away.

((Yes, I know I've been lurking.))

[Marillion]

So when my friend brings me up, if her first reaction isn't shuddering in revulsion or laughing uncontrollably, I just might get her number. :smallcool:

It was uncontrollable laughter.

Also, I am always receptive to people PMing me, Deathslayer7.

[MountainKing]

Same here, feel free to message away.

((Yes, I know I've been lurking.))

Gosh darn it, Odentin stole my response.

Well, I'm also available on MSN, and less frequently on AIM (I seldom run AIM, but I do have it.).

[Iferus]

Not exactly a relationship yet, but some possible ones.

Yesterday, I put my information on a dating website for the first time ever. And I already have got seven answers that seem potential on some level (and some inappropriate/nonsense ones, but those I deleted).

The problem is that I don't know how to go from here. (I have never dated, or even tried to date before). What is appropriate? Mostly whether it is acceptable to respond to more than one of the guys (through e-mail type of things)? What about dating, if I actually get to meet anyone in real life? Should that be the point where I "drop" the rest?

I'm just afraid I'll offend someone. And don't even know whether I actually want to go dating any of them, or whether they will respond anymore when I finally get the courage to mail them. But well, blame it on inezperience and nervousness about the realization that someone could actually be interested in me.


Since nobody else has responded to this, let me share my thoughts.

Contacting multiple men to get to know them better is perfectly acceptable. The moment you keep only one and dump the rest is when:
a) You fall in love. Always take your chances when you are in love.
b) You have agreed on a second date. Not the "I'll call you" type, but one that is almost definitely going to take place.



I actually have a negligible "hey that's hopeful" moment to share.

So, I'm a member of a certain online dating site (why not, right?) and in my browsing today, I came across a profile that literally made me stop and go "...wow". I read it 4 times, tried to think of something to say, was about to chicken out and just move on, and then I said to myself, "Args, just say SOMETHING, you've got to go ahead and send this girl a message. Anyone that engages you so completely for so long is worth a risk to get to talk to." So I did. I'm really really REALLY fervently hoping she finds me curious enough to message back. *crosses fingers*

Yes, it's minor and all that and whatever but dammit I feel good about all that.

Congrats. That took some courage. Has she sent a message back?

[arguskos]

Congrats. That took some courage. Has she sent a message back?
No. I've been very cautious to not check her profile again to see if she's even been online, since that is visible to the profile's owner, and I have no desire to appear over-eager or desperate. Instead, I am simply waiting. After a few more days, should nothing be returned, I'll write it off as a loss (what I'm expecting actually, easier to expect bad and be pleasantly surprised than to expect good and be disappointed, IMO).

[Malfunctioned]

I was talking to the girl today and noticed that she had something drawn on each of her knuckles. I looked down and saw what there were.

In order: Navi, Rupee, Heart Container and the Triforce.

She's also going to be getting a Triforce tattoo as soon as she turns 18.

Also, after I had to leave the group, as we generally gather in a big corridor section of our college known as 'The Street', to go my class another friend, whom is essentially considered my sister by the friend group, turned to her as said "Wow. He really likes you." I wasn't told how she reacted to that, only that she asked my closest friend there "Has he said anything to you?" and stuff like that.

I'm not sure about whether to consider that last bit a good thing or not, but the first part has certainly attracted me even more. :smallcool:

[xPANCAKEx]

Malfunctioned

firstly - tell your sister to shut her mouth. Blabber mouths blowing the game like that before you decide you're ready can make things awkward.

secondly sounds good

thirdly... sound good apart from the triforce tattoo. Neither original nor cool. If she got a zelda sleeve however...

[DeadManSleeping]

Am I allowed to share woes even if I know exactly what to do? I hope so, 'cause here we go.

I met a girl who is very much interested in the nerdy activity I do. She is new to the area, so she doesn't exactly know anyone...and now she does: me. She's a nice girl, and it seems she's a little, well, attached to me. That's fair, I hate not knowing anybody. It was pretty rough when I moved here, so I don't mind. Here's part one of the issue, though: I can't really tell if she's flirting with me or not. I'm not good at telling these things: normal compliments and flirty compliments all sound the same to me! But, hey, I can deal with it. But here comes part 2 of the problem: she's in a...let's call it an open relationship. Basically, she has license to be in a casual relationship with anyone while she's here, but she can't get into anything serious. I'm a bit worried that she'd be interested in doing this sort of thing with ME, and, well...I'm not interested in a casual relationship. I'm a very "Let's just have a traditional, monogamous relationship" sort of guy. I tried the sort-of-open thing once. Not emotionally fulfilling. So, as fun and nice as this girl is...if she wants something more than friendship, I have to shut her down.

It sucks. Girls aren't normally interested in me at all. Almost two years after the last one, the only potential one is someone I can't date? There is a cosmic force behind this, and I want to punch it in the face.

[Malfunctioned]

Malfunctioned

firstly - tell your sister to shut her mouth. Blabber mouths blowing the game like that before you decide you're ready can make things awkward.


The thing about this is that I don't actually mind about her saying it. My sister is better friends with her then I am (me knowing her all of less than a month) and could actually help somewhat.

ION: The girl is a cosplayer. This is all good. :smallsmile:




Am I allowed to share woes even if I know exactly what to do? I hope so, 'cause here we go.

-snippy-


If I was in that situation I would see how things play out. If she does turn out to want more than just the friendship then I would explain to her that you aren't looking for anything casual and if she wanted to be with you then she would have to leave this other relationship.

I hope that helps at all.

[xPANCAKEx]

DeadManSleeping

do the right thing... use this new found flirty friendship to make other girls 'jealous'. Competition is a major factor in attraction for people. They feel validated knowing their choice is one also favoured by others and therefore 'right'

[DeadManSleeping]

Didn't help me any last time I was in a relationship, but I'll give it some consideration. It's not like I'm going to discourage any flirting, I just have to turn her down if she wants a fling with me. But, hey, I can hope that you're right.

...

No, I really can't. I'm all for optimism, but not when it flies in the face of experience. 2 girls in 20 years is not going to suddenly start picking up just because one of those is pretty go-getting. And that's supposing it IS flirting, which I can't say for sure. :smallsigh:

[Deth Muncher]

Hm. So...let's see. Last time I checked in here, I had just landed myself this great girlfriend. One would THINK that after 2ish months, all would be good, right?

No.

See, thanks to the wonders of alcohol, my girlfriend loosened up so as to facilitate conversation last night, and given the amount she had had, she was feeling VERY talkative. Through this conversation, not only did it come out that I actively avoid love (And I do, because you know who has two thumbs and hates having his heart broken? This guy. Nice ta meetcha.), but also, although she didn't say it explicitly, I think she loves me. Which I am not okay with.

Furthermore, and I know this is going to sound stupid, but I really hate outward displays of affection. Like, I don't hold hands with her, especially not in public. And what did she want me to do last night to her in her drunken state? Get your minds out of the gutter, kids - she wanted me to give her a hickey -which I am ALL sorts of against. Now, my girlfriend is kind of scary and forceful when she's drunk, so I obliged her, and...well, she got what she asked for. And also like she asked for, she got people staring at her today - which she fails to see as awkward - for me, that is. See, I had told her I didn't want her to give her a hickey because all of our friends would see them on her, and, to quote myself, "I try to pretend that the most I ever do with anyone is hug them, and I really don't want proof to the contrary for people to see." And so it turns out today, something like 8 of our friends saw her and gawked at the two giant hickeys on her neck, and these friends are huge blabbermouths, so now, I'm betting most people at her school (we go to school about 45 min away from each other, btw) we're both friends with know about this.

I don't understand why I'm so angry about this, but I am.

[RabbitHoleLost]

Deth: Its simple why you're angry; she hasn't respected your comfort zone at all. Well, I mean, she DOES KNOW that you don't like PDA and obvious signs that denote such, right?
Because if you hadn't made her aware, than I can't say I'm very sympathetic. She can't read your mind.
But, assuming you've been clear with her on where you stand on such a situation, I can't say I much blame you for being angry. Drunk or not, the fact that she was unwilling to consider your feelings about such a thing shows that she's a tad bit selfish.
Try talking to her about it again? Lay down some lines. Tell her distinctly what you don't like, and make absolutely sure she understands.
If she doesn't, well...maybe it just won't work out?
But, I guess that's just the blunt way I feel. If someone I'm with doesn't respect me enough to cooperate with my comfort zones, I usually kick their ass to the curb, so to speak <<

[Deth Muncher]

Deth: Its simple why you're angry; she hasn't respected your comfort zone at all. Well, I mean, she DOES KNOW that you don't like PDA and obvious signs that denote such, right?
Because if you hadn't made her aware, than I can't say I'm very sympathetic. She can't read your mind.

Oh, I've been perfectly clear. But it's to the point that I wonder if maybe I'm being too uptight, y'know?

[RabbitHoleLost]

Oh, I've been perfectly clear. But it's to the point that I wonder if maybe I'm being too uptight, y'know?

I don't understand where personal comfort comes in to being too uptight. If that's the way you feel, man, that's the way you feel.
Some people are perfectly okay with flaunting their relationship to the world, and that's fine.
Other people are more conservative, and that's fine too.
The only problem is mixing the two together, because someone always gets hurt or becomes bitter.

[Coidzor]

Boy howdy. Being in a relationship with both positions being separated by any kind of wide margin on PDA or affection outside of the bedroom or absolute and utter privacy sucks.


I was talking to the girl today and noticed that she had something drawn on each of her knuckles. I looked down and saw what there were.

In order: Navi
Navi
NAVI (http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=42)

I'm...I'm sorry. :smallfrown:

[Malfunctioned]

Boy howdy. Being in a relationship with both positions being separated by any kind of wide margin on PDA or affection outside of the bedroom or absolute and utter privacy sucks.



I'm...I'm sorry. :smallfrown:

I'M WILLING TO OVERLOOK IT. *twitch*
:smalltongue:

[xPANCAKEx]

Deth Muncher

the proverbial damage has been done on this one. The fact that youre against PDAs will get people interested, so how you react to this will shape public opinion. Simply put, throw a hissy fit and you'll draw all kinds of attention.

Part of your anger is definately down to your girlfriend pushing your comfort zone, but it will also be down to anger at yourself for letting yourself be manipulated into a situation where youre not happy - it takes two to tango, and you cant exactly force someone to give you a hickey without serious threats of violence or some such

as for how to deal with the situation... yeah, loosen up a little and you'll ride it out just fine. No one wants to be known as "that guy who spazzed out because he gave his girlfriend a hickey and she showed it off". Besides as a young girl in school dating a guy not into PDAs im sure her friends have questioned the relationship enough (yeah, they'll do that) - so let her have just this one thing to say to people 'ha! see - we get it on".

and how to deal with anyone who asks you about it - just give them a smile, a wink and say "mind you're own ****in business" and waltz off.

really - all in all its not a MASSIVE deal, although the girlfriend being pushy needs to be dealt with, so dont get too bent out of shape about it and just relax and you'll be fine

[Quincunx]

Oh, I've been perfectly clear. But it's to the point that I wonder if maybe I'm being too uptight, y'know?

Well. . .now you have less of a reason to be uptight. The fear that "people might find out that I'm. . .affectionate--ack, my image is questioned!" has been wiped out by the event actually happening and so you can stop projecting future embarrassment into the current embarrassments of PDA (just focus on comfort zones instead of worrying about what other people think). This could work out well for general stress reduction. Live in the moment, etc.

[Ignition]

@Deth: I guess it's a matter of priorities; is your reputation as an unaffectionate person more important than getting affection from her? What do you have to gain from remaining "uptight", as you call it? What's happened in the wake of having your comfort zone breached, with public evidence of same?

I mean, if you've reason to distrust her - and if she's 'forceful' when she's drunk, that may be a bad sign, since I've had similar situations - then that's one thing, unless you're just naturally distrustful - and I certainly can't blame you there :smallwink: .

If she's really not compatable with you, or if you don't feel the same way about her that she does about you, you really should re-evaluate your relationship with her and see if it's really what you need/want. But in my personal opinion, based on what you said there, I think you're still stuck on nursing your old wounds to the point that it's paralyzing your ability to enjoy what you have in the present.

And to be really honest? I'm in the same place.

[MountainKing]

Am I allowed to share woes even if I know exactly what to do? I hope so, 'cause here we go. *SNIPSNAP*

Hey, Woes is right in our name. Heck, it's the first part. :smallsmile: I think you should try to loosen up a little, and get that casual relationship anyway. Growing and pushing your boundaries go hand in hand, and all GOOD relationships start out at the casual level. At least, I've never once seen a relationship just START with sloppy makeouts, Iloveyoumores, and awkward sex in back rooms at parties (I'd say these are all things that are either more in-depth than typical casual stuff, or have direct analogues in casual stuff), and go on and on in the fashion that you want to see out of a relationship.

You want long term? That's fine. How do you even know if she's the kind of girl, deep down, that you WANT a long-term relationship with if you don't *know* her "5 AM Side"*? I say, put your expectations aside a little bit; don't throw them away, just nudge your priorities around first. Who knows? Maybe you'll be the guy who gets her to "stick"? I won't say that's a certain outcome, but hey; this is love and relationships. There is no spoon. :smallwink:


DeadManSleeping
do the right thing... use this new found flirty friendship to make other girls 'jealous'. Competition is a major factor in attraction for people. They feel validated knowing their choice is one also favoured by others and therefore 'right'

>_> You know, your bar for "the right thing" kind of scares me. It's very Machiavellian. It doesn't make you less right, just... very The Prince of you. Well played, you frightening person. :smalleek:


Oh, I've been perfectly clear. But it's to the point that I wonder if maybe I'm being too uptight, y'know?

In a word? YES. It's a simple fact that physical skin to skin contact causes chemical reactions in the brain that trigger feelings of love and closeness. Humans *need* that contact to maintain a healthy, loving relationship. To me, and this is possibly how your SO is seeing it as well, you're acting like you're *ashamed* of that need for physical closeness. It gives the feeling that there's something wrong with her; if there wasn't anything wrong, surely you'd be willing to show people that you care about her. Even just holding her hand is a wonderful step; I think you, like DMS, need to loosen up a bit and try to push your boundaries a little. :smallsmile:


I'M WILLING TO OVERLOOK IT. *twitch*
:smalltongue:

Good man, Mal. That's one hell of a bullet to stand and take, but I too know a girl I'd gladly take that bullet for.

...lucky for me, she hates Navi with a burning passion that equals mine, so, I don't have to. :smalltongue: BUT I STILL WOULD!

EDIT: OH yeah, the asterisk. * - The "5 AM side" of a person is what they're like at 5 AM, having just woken up. Their hair is a wreck, they've got sleep-goop in their eyes, their breath is weird, they're scratching their junk (even if they don't HAVE junk!), stretching and making weird noises... At that ugly, 5 AM level, when people are dead on their feet and nowhere near awake yet... THAT'S when they're the most out of tune with their personal slew of neurosis and problems. It's when they're at their grossest, most natural (awake...ish...) state.

We're all familiar with the 5 AM side, I think, so it probably didn't actually need clarifying, but... I did it anyhow. I put the asterisk there, I felt obligated.

[Deth Muncher]

@Pancake: You are right, of course. I take solace in the fact that I'm basically an hour away from her and our friends, and they won't randomly see me on campus and be like "HASSLEHASSLEHASSLE."

@Quin: The sad part of that is that the whole "Affection? Me? Noooo." is pretty well spot-on. You are also correct, in that now that it's happened, I don't have to worry about it if it ever happens again, since people won't react the same to it. (I think that's where you were going? Maybe I muddied together you and Pancake.)

@Iggy: In order - being affectionate with her takes priority, nothing, and also nothing as of yet (though if I go back home this weekend, there may be some hassling).

I don't really have any reason to distrust her on anything - though I am kind of a distrustful person to begin with, as you correctly surmised.

And it's not that she's...FORCEFUL when she's drunk...I mean, it's not like she's choking me and telling me to give her a hickey or anything (though I'm not knocking it if you [being the ubiquitous you, by the way, not just Iggy] happen to be into that sort of thing)...she's just...intense, I guess? She actually said to me yesterday "Sorry for developing a personality when I'm drunk."

And you, also, are right in that I need to reevaluate what's going on.

EDIT: @MountainKing - Maybe I don't want to be close? And I'm not saying that snarkily, but rather as an honest rhetorical question. Maybe I DON'T want to be close. I don't know. I think I'm afraid of being close. Past experiences and all that. I need to sit back and look at this for sure, though.

[MountainKing]

EDIT: @MountainKing - Maybe I don't want to be close? And I'm not saying that snarkily, but rather as an honest rhetorical question. Maybe I DON'T want to be close. I don't know. I think I'm afraid of being close. Past experiences and all that. I need to sit back and look at this for sure, though.

Oh for sure, mate. That too is a possibility, but it goes back to what I said. Growth comes with pushing boundaries. Right now, you've got (metaphorically) a box. It's big enough for two, but the last time you had this size box, a rabid raccoon got into it. Terrifying. So you get a smaller box; it's much less inviting now, and that's all well and good... but now, a happy looking puppy wants to live with you. And it's a cute puppy, so you tentatively let it in, but you don't feed it.

Over time, the puppy grows, and soon, you're thinking "Man... this box is way too small... what should I do?"

That's the point you're at; you're absolutely right that you need to sit back and think a little bit. My question for you, though, is this:

Is it nicer to have the puppy in the box with you? Or would you rather wait until it leaves you for somebody who'll feed it?

[Ignition]

I like the box, racoon, and puppy analogy, MK :smallbiggrin: Very well stated.

But yeah, Deth, I totally understand having barriers up between you and getting close to her. I've tended to take the reverse approach of MK - which is to say, rather than drop my defenses and push my tolerance for other people, simply built a life and an emotional/moral system that does not require them - and fully admit to, on occasion, regretting it. Not enough to change direction, mind, but as I stated before, it is both valid and necessary to re-evaluate your positions every once and awhile, to be willing to hold none of your previous decisions as sacred or absolutely perfect and metaphorically slay the golden calf to try something new.

I will hope for the best for you both :smallbiggrin:

[DeadManSleeping]

Hey, Woes is right in our name. Heck, it's the first part. :smallsmile: I think you should try to loosen up a little, and get that casual relationship anyway. Growing and pushing your boundaries go hand in hand, and all GOOD relationships start out at the casual level. At least, I've never once seen a relationship just START with sloppy makeouts, Iloveyoumores, and awkward sex in back rooms at parties (I'd say these are all things that are either more in-depth than typical casual stuff, or have direct analogues in casual stuff), and go on and on in the fashion that you want to see out of a relationship.

You want long term? That's fine. How do you even know if she's the kind of girl, deep down, that you WANT a long-term relationship with if you don't *know* her "5 AM Side"*? I say, put your expectations aside a little bit; don't throw them away, just nudge your priorities around first. Who knows? Maybe you'll be the guy who gets her to "stick"? I won't say that's a certain outcome, but hey; this is love and relationships. There is no spoon. :smallwink:

Hm. It seems I failed to communicate my intent clearly.

I have no problem with a "casual" relationship in the sense of "who knows where this is going let's just make out a lot". I have no problem with "I sort of like you but let's just hang out extra and not really call it anything yet because I'm not sure of anything". I DO have a problem with "casual" in the sense of "it's like a relationship but there is absolutely no future in it don't even try it". I did mention that she HAS a boyfriend, right? Basically the deal is that, since it's sort-of-long-distance, when they're not in the same place, they have free range of it, but once they're back in proximity all other things are expected to be dropped like they are hot. Not exactly my idea of fun.

Besides which, the LAST relationship I was in was all split-attentiony, and I didn't like it, so I don't want to do it again. And at least that time it was with someone else I knew, trusted, and liked (and found sexy :smalltongue: ), so we could talk about it when necessary and avoid as much pain as possible. I think it would be even more awful if the 3rd person was some dude I didn't know anything about.

I know EXACTLY what I'd be getting into. It's not new territory. It is old territory that I have surveyed, and I have no taste for it. I'm sure not pitching my tent there, in any sense of the phrase.

I'm hoping that the natural order remains undisturbed and she's NOT attracted to me. That would make life much simpler, and it wouldn't require me to go through that annoying cognitive dissonance. I hate cognitive dissonance.

[MountainKing]

Hm. It seems I failed to communicate my intent clearly.

I have no problem with a "casual" relationship in the sense of "who knows where this is going let's just make out a lot". I have no problem with "I sort of like you but let's just hang out extra and not really call it anything yet because I'm not sure of anything". I DO have a problem with "casual" in the sense of "it's like a relationship but there is absolutely no future in it don't even try it". I did mention that she HAS a boyfriend, right? Basically the deal is that, since it's sort-of-long-distance, when they're not in the same place, they have free range of it, but once they're back in proximity all other things are expected to be dropped like they are hot. Not exactly my idea of fun.

Besides which, the LAST relationship I was in was all split-attentiony, and I didn't like it, so I don't want to do it again. And at least that time it was with someone else I knew, trusted, and liked (and found sexy :smalltongue: ), so we could talk about it when necessary and avoid as much pain as possible. I think it would be even more awful if the 3rd person was some dude I didn't know anything about.

I know EXACTLY what I'd be getting into. It's not new territory. It is old territory that I have surveyed, and I have no taste for it. I'm sure not pitching my tent there, in any sense of the phrase.

I'm hoping that the natural order remains undisturbed and she's NOT attracted to me. That would make life much simpler, and it wouldn't require me to go through that annoying cognitive dissonance. I hate cognitive dissonance.

Oooooooooh... OH. Well. That's my bad. Totally dropped the ball on reading comprehension there. I'm sorry. :smallfrown: Well, still... I can appreciate the desire for a monogamous experience (I myself identify as strongly monogamous when in a relationship; the way I invest my emotions simply would NOT be fertile ground for poly seeds)... I just totally misinterpreted what you were driving at.

Well, still... if she does find you attractive, the least you could do is have a little fun while you're looking... "Two out of three ain't bad."


I like the box, racoon, and puppy analogy, MK :smallbiggrin: Very well stated.

And I rather like your new avatar, sir (or... madame? I... you've mentioned that before right? I'm just losing my mind?), I think it's very fitting for the impression I have of you. :smallbiggrin: Fear not; it's a good impression. I've a feeling you and I could ramble at each other for a good long time, which is a benchmark of mine for a good (non-lovey) relationship.

[Ignition]

I'm a Spah Spy, I can go both ways :smallwink:

[Coidzor]

I take solace in the fact that I'm basically an hour away from her and our friends, and they won't randomly see me on campus and be like "HASSLEHASSLEHASSLE."

...That's a silly paranoid delusion to have. At least get something more interesting if you're going to have them. I mean, either A. you need new friends in the first place or B. who has time to worry about two people who are adults and in an established relationship?


EDIT: OH yeah, the asterisk. * - The "5 AM side" of a person is what they're like at 5 AM, having just woken up. Their hair is a wreck, they've got sleep-goop in their eyes, their breath is weird, they're scratching their junk (even if they don't HAVE junk!), stretching and making weird noises... At that ugly, 5 AM level, when people are dead on their feet and nowhere near awake yet... THAT'S when they're the most out of tune with their personal slew of neurosis and problems. It's when they're at their grossest, most natural (awake...ish...) state.

We're all familiar with the 5 AM side, I think, so it probably didn't actually need clarifying, but... I did it anyhow. I put the asterisk there, I felt obligated.

Maybe I've just been lucky or it isn't so bad during the teenage years, but I've never really minded that. :smallconfused: I'd say flatulence is probably worse because there's no way to get acclimated to someone else's without something on the level of a fetish going on. :smallyuk:

Actually, most of that seems like stuff that you hold your tongue about due to the fact that either hanky panky is going on the first times you're exposed to it or because you're trying to go back to sleep and if you stay with them regularly you get mostly desensitized to it.

Granted, there's only really been two, maybe three scenarios in which I've had cause to wake up at 5 AM if I've been sharing a bed with a lover. One of which has me rushing to the bathroom to puke/staunch the bleeding.

[Syka]

...staunch the bleeding? o.o Do you sleep with knives or something?

Sorry...curiosity got the best of me and I don't really have anything else to add, lol.

[Ignition]

Maybe her dad walked in and shot him in a non-lethal place :smallwink:

[arguskos]

Update2: Online girl decided I was of interest to respond. We're sharing messages slowly, as she is pretty swamped with life apparently, but, it's a good start IMO. Now, to keep my hopes down and just see where the ride takes me, no need to get all worked up just yet. :smallcool:

[Coidzor]

...staunch the bleeding? o.o Do you sleep with knives or something?

I have a broken septum in my nose, at least that seemed to be what the medical opinion was last it was brought up, so I'm much more susceptible and prone to nosebleeds than most other people I've known.

So, occasionally I'll wake up with my face covered in blood and have ruined t-shirts or pillow cases.

Thankfully nothing that bad's ever happened while sleeping with someone else, but I have gotten nosebleeds which woke me up.

[Ignition]

Perfectly reasonable explanation.

Bah, my story was more interesting :smallwink:

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

I'm...I'm sorry. :smallfrown:

This was awesome.

[Deth Muncher]

So, had a brief conversation (and by that, I mean I sent her a Facebook message because that's the easiest way to get all my thoughts out and let her view them at her leisure, and then she responded in kind) with my girlfriend about the whole deal.

Basically, she apologized for the whole business. She's been sort of unofficially blaming her new birth control meds for her sudden upwelling of clingyness/etc, since she, like me, is fairly emotionally neutral towards most things, but she said today that the meds are actually seriously screwing with her brain, and she's gonna see if she can reduce her dosage the next time she goes home. Also, she apologized for teasing me about people finding out about the hickeys, since she knew I hated it anyway and such. While she partly blames the booze + hormone combination, she still realizes she shouldn't have pushed the boundary. In fact, to quote her exactly, "The next time I drunkenly demand that you give me hickeys, please just say something along the lines of "Shut up, scary drunk bitch, hickeys are bad. Get over it."

So all is well, I think, with the exception of my aversion to love, which depresses her, but she's not upset about it.

[Ignition]

Ouch, yeah, meds plus alcohol rarely equals anything except bad times. Hopefully she can get some that won't disagree with her chemistry so much.

I'm glad you, and she by extension, are working to figure things out, rather than letting the difficulty get in the way of what could/should be a happy relationship for you both.

[Syka]

I can second the hormones-from-birth-control. When I upped my dosage to a normal level of estrogen, from the low-dose I had been on, in an attempt to ward off cramps...whoa boy. For about six months I felt like I was insane. I was clingy and jealous and moody and just all around RAWR CRAZY CHICK. It was...bad. I switched back to a lower dose and haven't had a problem since.

Do you know what dosage she's on? Suggest she talk to her doctor about a low-dose. Also, if she's on a triphasic pill, that can cause issues too. Instead of the one steady dose through out the month that monophaisics give, triphaisics give varying levels each week which can mess with hormones even more. Ortho-Tri is the main offender from what I've seen.


I'm glad to hear that you guys are generally on the same page. That points to this probably being a transient issue. Also, I love her response of "Shut up scary drunk!" x.x She sounds like a good one, if she can admit to her mistakes and suggest ways to prevent it.

[Fax Celestis]

This is going to be a wall of text, so I apologize in advance.

Sep. 17th, 2010: My wife posts a list on her baby blog (http://makin-haikin.livejournal.com/5733.html). It is broadly abbreviated. My mother reads the schedule, gets offended about being referred to as "the in-laws", and sends my wife a message on Facebook indicating that she should change it to my mom and dad's full names. My wife, not wishing to be censored and in an effort to protect my family's identities, declines to alter the schedule.

Sep. 18th, 2010: I call my parents that evening to check how large something is that I'll be picking up from them the next day. My mother gives me attitude over the phone, and after getting the measurements I ask why I'm getting the attitude. This spirals into an hour-and-a-half long argument in which my mother attempts to guilt-trip me into dropping the argument because my father just went through surgery to remove cancer a week ago and is still in recovery. I refuse, and instead interrogate them about why (a) this is a big deal at all; and (b) seek out things to complain about my wife about. My parents (since they're both on the phone now) counter with "you're not a caring person" and "we raised you better than this." Dinner on the 19th is called off. My pinched nerve in my shoulder and my twitching cornea is further aggravated from stress and from being on the phone for that long.

Sep. 19th, 2010: At 5:40 PM I get a three-part Facebook message from my mother detailing how one tiny part of my entire argument (how my parents shouldn't be intimidated by my wife because they have a better house, a better car, better jobs, better education, etc. etc.) is invalid because 'they were poor once', completely missing the point: that my parents should not be intimidated by my wife period. I give a noncommittal response. My wife receives a similar message in her email (entitled "just checking to see how dis-owned I am"), to which she replies with a multi-paragraph dissertation as to why she is so hurt by my mother's actions and concludes with a statement about how she shouldn't contact her anymore.

Sep. 20th, 2010: At 7:20 AM, I get a message on Facebook from my mother asking if my wife will attend the baby shower she had planned for November and some other events. I do not reply, since I am at work and haven't had a chance to speak with my wife. At 1:30 PM, I get a reminder message on Facebook asking to again answer the questions. At 4:30 PM, I have still not replied, so I get an insistent message that boils down to "I'm calling everything off, ever, yes, even that," to which I reply "Jesus Christ give me a bit, I haven't been able to ask yet." I get a reply that amounts to "you should feel guilty instead of aggravated because you kept me up until 4:30 AM and stressed me out." I do not reply.

Sep. 21st, 2010: At 9:30 AM, I reply and answer the questions. Mom seems to have missed the part where I said my wife won't be attending the baby shower and instead repeated the question, as if the answer would change. Then she utters this line:


The more Dad and I think about all of this, it has been percolating for a long while. I am sorry that you are in such a painful and awkward situation/place.

yesterday i thouigth about taking all of my ambien and xanax and just getting out of everyone's life and then you could all be happy.

I just about have an aneurysm. What the **** do I do now? Yes, she's a raving loon, but she's my mother.

[Syka]

I....wow. I don't even know. I thought I had it bad with the tiff Oz and I my mom had a couple weeks ago. :smalleek: My solution was to finally get them to talk instead of being a middleman, but it doesn't look like that's your problem.


Now...question...why were they upset by the in-law comment? Why were they threatened?


Also...how serious do you think the threat is? I mean, it should always be taken seriously, but is it "Get authorities involved" or "Encourage to see a professional" serious?

[Fax Celestis]

Now...question...why were they upset by the in-law comment? Why were they threatened? Because it was 'depersonalizing'. Which was the entire point: the whole list is depersonalized. They apparently felt that "the in-laws" was discriminatory in comparison to things like "Grandma P", and as such she was explicitly giving preferential treatment to her own family. This is not the case (and even if she were, who gives a damn? This is a calendar on her baby blog.).


Also...how serious do you think the threat is? I mean, it should always be taken seriously, but is it "Get authorities involved" or "Encourage to see a professional" serious?

Mom's been on psychoactive medications as long as I can remember, but she's never attempted anything in my memory. So frankly, I dunno. I do know she already sees a professional.

[Ignition]

I have two answers for this, one's completely hateful and would probably get me shot in the street, and one's actually responsible and is the one I would encourage you to actually do. I'm sure you can figure out on your own which is which.

The first answer that comes to mind is "Call her bluff". My maternal grandmother (actually her and my paternal grandmother as well) constantly threatened suicide with varying degrees of seriousness during both my mother's formative years, and later on in life during my formative years. They both had the means to do it, and found various colorful ways with which to threaten us into submission to their various demands. Neither of them have ever attempted to harm themselves on purpose, despite their threats. Odds are, this is just a final twist of the knife to attempt to re-establish control over you and your wife.

I, personally, have called both of my grandmothers to task for just this same thing. And my father. And various other people of varying degrees of blood and social relation. None of them ever did anything to harm themselves after I called their bluff. Hopefully that's all you will need, to push back harder than she can, and re-balance the clear power skew that exists in this relationship. If not, well, I'm sorry.

The second answer, however, from the "trust but verify" school of advice, is to contact someone with a level of medical or psychological/psychiatric credentials to get ahold of your mother and prevent her from making good on her threat. You're under far more stress here than anyone has a right to expect you to take on your own shoulders. Get backup and get her out of this position where she can harm herself. If your dad's pulling the same act, then get him the same treatment.

Let me repeat, though, the core of this second piece of advice: You Are Not In This Alone, or if you are, Get Backup. Clearly, one way or another, she does not seem to be in a state to respect your wishes and your words, so find someone in a position of authority and use that leverage to make said wishes and words stick. It doesn't matter why she's doing this, what she's doing is wrong. Make her understand that, and make her understand there are more constructive ways of handling this situation than threatening suicide.

I wish you the best of luck in this situation, and in general. Hopefully this advice helps, but I understand I can come off as jaded or worse, so please realize I'm trying to help.

[arguskos]

Hey Fax, have you spoken to your FATHER separately from your mother? Perhaps he can shed some insight into what the hell is going on and how best to handle it. If that fails, if your parents are religious, perhaps speak to their pastor/religious authority and try and get some help to deal with this issue. Beyond that, I'm coming up fairly empty.

[Coidzor]

Bah, my story was more interesting :smallwink:

Haha, yes.

Actually, my ex-fiance's father did joke about getting a tracking device implanted in me...

[Fax Celestis]

The first answer that comes to mind is "Call her bluff".My mother is the kind of person who might go through with it just out of spite, unfortunately, so I am sort of at a loss as to the success possibility of such an endeavor.


The second answer, however, from the "trust but verify" school of advice, is to contact someone with a level of medical or psychological/psychiatric credentials to get ahold of your mother and prevent her from making good on her threat.I just wish I had her psychologist's information.
You're under far more stress here than anyone has a right to expect you to take on your own shoulders. [...] Let me repeat, though, the core of this second piece of advice: You Are Not In This Alone, or if you are, Get Backup.I know. I've got my wife to depend on, but she is just as hurt and fuming as I am, and is frankly at the point where she would be perfectly happy never speaking to my parents ever again.


Hey Fax, have you spoken to your FATHER separately from your mother? Perhaps he can shed some insight into what the hell is going on and how best to handle it. If that fails, if your parents are religious, perhaps speak to their pastor/religious authority and try and get some help to deal with this issue. Beyond that, I'm coming up fairly empty.

I can't, really: dad's under her care right now as he recovers. He just had surgery last week. And no, they're Christmas-and-Easter churchgoers.

[Ignition]

Haha, yes.

Actually, my ex-fiance's father did joke about getting a tracking device implanted in me...

Check for un-explained scars in your joints or the base of your neck, that's usually where they stick 'em :smallwink:


My mother is the kind of person who might go through with it just out of spite, unfortunately, so I am sort of at a loss as to the success possibility of such an endeavor.

I just wish I had her psychologist's information. I know. I've got my wife to depend on, but she is just as hurt and fuming as I am, and is frankly at the point where she would be perfectly happy never speaking to my parents ever again.

Like I said on the first point, it works for me because I have little problem using my size and my intelligence to intimidate people who are attempting to intimidate me, and generally speaking when someone does this sort of stunt, it's just that, a stunt, not a serious threat. I apologize if the suggestion is not helpful, and doubly so that your mother would do this out of spite.

Regarding the second point, however, can you go to her place and check out her medications, or do they live too far away? Alternately, would it be possible to call a paramedic to send to her place to get her checked in somewhere overnight, like an Emergency Room to make sure she's not having a weird reaction to some of her meds? I'm not sure if that's really possible, but it's worth a shot.

[arguskos]

My mother is the kind of person who might go through with it just out of spite, unfortunately, so I am sort of at a loss as to the success possibility of such an endeavor.
So... your mother is ALWAYS this vitriolic and horrific? Cause, this is some terrible behavior from a parent, and frankly I'm impressed you can handle it. You're stronger than I am in this respect.


I can't, really: dad's under her care right now as he recovers. He just had surgery last week. And no, they're Christmas-and-Easter churchgoers.
Damn. Well, what authority figures DOES she respect and listen to? Any? If yes, contact them and talk to them!

[Syka]

Reading through, I get the impression that her relationship with your parents has been strained for a while?

Have you guys ever sat down and hashed out the problems?


And I'm just not seeing it as any more depersonalizing as "sister" "mom" or "grandma", even with the modifier "P". I mean...you and her best friends are the only ones I even saw referred to with their actual names.

All that aside, congrats on the spawn. :)

[Fax Celestis]

So... your mother is ALWAYS this vitriolic and horrific? Cause, this is some terrible behavior from a parent, and frankly I'm impressed you can handle it. You're stronger than I am in this respect.It comes and goes.


Reading through, I get the impression that her relationship with your parents has been strained for a while? Have you guys ever sat down and hashed out the problems?Quite some time, yes. We've tried, but it inevitably boils down to "oops sorry let's sweep it under the rug and call it a day also it won't happen again" before happening again in three months.


And I'm just not seeing it as any more depersonalizing as "sister" "mom" or "grandma", even with the modifier "P". I mean...you and her best friends are the only ones I even saw referred to with their actual names. I know. It makes no sense.


All that aside, congrats on the spawn. :)Thanks.

EDIT: And now she's sending me messages like nothing is wrong. I told her I have a Kaiser appointment to see a psychiatrist to get ADD medication (since it's gotten to the point where I don't feel like I can self-medicate anymore with caffeine), and she says, I quote, "okey dokey, thrive and be well @Kaiser!"

:confused:

[xPANCAKEx]

Fax Celestis

you need to stop feeding your mothers attention seeking behavior. Thats all im saying on the matter.

[Rawhide]

Fax Celestis:
How serious do you feel she is with her threat to commit suicide and, less importantly, how has she expressed that thought to you (in writing, including electronic?).

If you feel that she is in imminent danger of self harm, you should write out a diary/timeline, print off all of your relevant communications (email, Facebook, etc.) and go to the police immediatly. They will organise an intervention that might include a short time under observation.

If there is no danger of self harm, then you should research if there is anything similar to the "Justices Examination Order" we have here. JEOs allow a doctor or authorised medical practitioner to examine a person involuntarily. The brocure for what a JEO is and how it works can be found here (http://www.health.qld.gov.au/mha2000/documents/jeo_brochure.pdf). It is a very good idea to know what options are available to you, should you need to take steps to protect her health, even if you never need to use them.

The brocure suggests that the following steps be taken first:
Before making an application for a JEO, you should explore other assessment options for the person concerned. You can contact your local mental health service for advice. If the person is a friend or family member, you may be able to discuss your concerns with a GP. You can apply for a JEO if the situation is not resolved through these other avenues.

[Fax Celestis]

Fax Celestis:
How serious do you feel she is with her threat to commit suicide and, less importantly, how has she expressed that thought to you (in writing, including electronic?).Electronically. And I have no idea.

[snoopy13a]

Update2: Online girl decided I was of interest to respond. We're sharing messages slowly, as she is pretty swamped with life apparently, but, it's a good start IMO. Now, to keep my hopes down and just see where the ride takes me, no need to get all worked up just yet. :smallcool:

Yeah, it can be a delicate balance. You don't want to come on too strong. On the other hand, you don't want to drag it out too long.

Does she live relatively near? If so, you could ask to meet for coffee in a little bit. I think it's also good to try and meet sooner than later. After all, you don't want to make an emotional connection and after you meet for the first time that one of you doesn't find the other person physically attractive*.


*This is actually one of the reasons I don't pursue on-line relationships.

[arguskos]

Yeah, it can be a delicate balance. You don't want to come on too strong. On the other hand, you don't want to drag it out too long.

Does she live relatively near? If so, you could ask to meet for coffee in a little bit. I think it's also good to try and meet sooner than later. After all, you don't want to make an emotional connection and after you meet for the first time that one of you doesn't find the other person physically attractive*.

*This is actually one of the reasons I don't pursue on-line relationships.
Same city. Beyond that, I couldn't say. She has made it pretty clear she would prefer to talk for awhile online and then go from there, something I'm actually quite fine with. If it turns out she has some personality issue I cannot stand, then better to find out online than in person (I'm bad with awkwardness in situations).

Also, luckily, there is a picture on her profile, and three on mine (none are really great on mine, but they are a variety of hair styles, facial expressions, two different poses, and a few kinds of beards).

And yeah, it's a tough balance. I figure after maybe 5-6 messages each or so, asking to meet face-to-face isn't a deal-breaker. At that point, I feel such has been warranted. Let's see how it goes.

[Fax Celestis]

http://tshirtgroove.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/but-wait-theres-more-billy-mays-tshirt.jpg

Got an email a bit ago.


I am sending the bedding etc. for Athena's room to your house. Athena's stroller will also be delivered from Toy's r Us. I am also shipping the clothes that I purchased for her, if they are not to your liking please donate them to the charity of your choice. I will also ship your little rocking chair that Granny and Grandpa gave you and a few of your favorite childhood books. We are trying to locate the cross stitch picture that Grandma [on your dad's side] made for you and will send it when we locate it. Hopefully this will save you some gas and time if I ship stuff to you.

Please let Athena know that she has another set of grandparents that would like to meet her when she is 18, providing we are still alive. I hope this makes life easier for all. You won't have to worry about us at holidays or birthdays juggling where to go etc. and life will just be simpler. [Your wife]'s stress level should drop with us out of the picture...I only worry about [your sister], but she only has 3 years until she is 18 and then she can do what she wants.
Love,
Mom
...passive aggressive much?

[Coidzor]

So, she just disowned you? :smallyuk:

...Where's your dad in this equation?

[Serpentine]

Fax, did either you or your wife actually make any attempts to explain why they were "dehumanised" in the calendar, or did you both just dismiss her hurt feelings as "ridiculous"?