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CalamaroJoe
2010-09-09, 09:36 AM
Hi playgrounders!

I'm short of ideas for a battle in which I've thrown my players. I would like to hear (read..) what you think about it.
The two sides are:
1. A big super-clan of hobgoblins and goblins (Gobbotopia-style) that seized a mountain pass. There are wolves, a few ogres and/or hill giants, and the BBEG (barghest) with maybe a few helpers (sorcerer, adept, ...)
2. The dwellers of the valley. They can build a fighting force of quite extraordinary magnitude but are more used to skirmishes than to open war (the goblins grew too strong and now they need to put and end to it).

The goblins built a wall and some fences, plus they occupy a small cave nearby.

How would you attack the pass, being on the weaker terrain side?
The PCs could be invited to do something to move the odds in favour of the valley people...

Any tip or idea is welcome.

Whammydill
2010-09-09, 09:38 AM
What does the party consist of?

CalamaroJoe
2010-09-09, 09:42 AM
What does the party consist of?

well..
fighter, paladin, cleric, warmage, rogue, monk
not relly optimized, around level 5

zimmerwald1915
2010-09-09, 10:26 AM
The PCs could be invited to do something to move the odds in favour of the valley people...
Or they could aid the goblins, who are clearly the wave of the future, in battle to cleanse the world of the decadent valley dwellers. :smallbiggrin:

In all seriousness, it would help to know how many mooks there are, and whether they'll be lined up on the wall, or what? The system's not really set up to handle set-piece battles, so throwing an army of valleypeople plus PCs against an army of mooks plus BBEG probably isn't your best option.

shadowmage
2010-09-09, 10:30 AM
I would set up the defenses as you wish and then see what the players plan to do about it. Let them help the valley people come up with an plan, with the PC involved. AS the "battle" progress have the flow of the battle go off how well the PC's are doing. If they are doing well have the Valley force, "off screen" pushing forward and doing well. When the PC's are doing badly the valley forces are held off pushed back.

The PC's do not have to be in the think of the battle. They could have sneaked by some how, sneaked over the walls at night or navigated some caves, to attack strategic points behind the enemy lines.

CalamaroJoe
2010-09-09, 10:56 AM
I would set up the defenses as you wish and then see what the players plan to do about it. Let them help the valley people come up with an plan, with the PC involved.

Yes, this would be the best thing, also in role playing perspective.
The problem is that sometimes the players are not much responsive, and in this case they seem more on the line of "tell us how we can help and we will gladly do" - and I must figure out something...

CalamaroJoe
2010-09-09, 11:11 AM
In all seriousness, it would help to know how many mooks there are, and whether they'll be lined up on the wall, or what? The system's not really set up to handle set-piece battles, so throwing an army of valleypeople plus PCs against an army of mooks plus BBEG probably isn't your best option.

There are 200-300 warriors per side. The goblins can be partially surprised, because they don't expect an assault from that side of the pass.
The have patrols and guards, of course.

Snake-Aes
2010-09-09, 11:14 AM
I'd need the layout of the area and the parties involved to be able to tell much...

How close can the host reach the enemy undetected? Can your players pass for members of either faction? If both are "yes", then replacing scouts becomes a viable tactic to get them as surprised as they can get without any advance scout.

Harris the Ford
2010-09-09, 11:22 AM
Have them do spec ops style missions, there's no reason for them to be on the front line. That would just muddy up game play and trivialize a cool set piece. Large scale battles are a backdrop, not an encounter. Though it does seem like you know this already. Here are some ideas on what they can do to help the big battle:

Sneak around back and take out the garrison of catapults that are raining down boulders on your allies. This mission can utilize stealth and sabotage or brute force and direct combat, whichever thr PCs choose.

Chase down and kill the message runner that is relaying orders from command to the troops. Speed is essential in this mission, catch the runner before he gets back to the BBEG and tells him what's going on.

Hike up the mountain and start a rock slide that will come crashing down on the enemy base/forces. This could be a very cinematic event that you could mark the turn of the battle.

Find and kill the enemy commander! If you aren't planning on making him a reccuring villian than sending your party out to kill him could be a way for them to single handedly win the battle. This would be very risky but in the end would be very rewarding/glorious.


Alternatively, you could give the PCs a choice between one or more of these tasks. Remember to make sure their decisions count and let each action have an effect on the battle raging off screen. Just my 2 cp, I'm a big fan of large scale battles and the PCs role in them. For more information be sure to look up Heroes of Battle (or was it CChamp?) which has a lot of information regarding battles, such as stats for various siege weapons, strategie, and dm tips for running battles.

Snake-Aes
2010-09-09, 11:37 AM
Find and kill the enemy commander! If you aren't planning on making him a reccuring villian than sending your party out to kill him could be a way for them to single handedly win the battle. This would be very risky but in the end would be very rewarding/glorious. No. Organized troops don't suddenly surrender or die just because the commander is gone. That only happens when the commander is the sole reason for their unity, like a merc group or a small army when a game of loyalties is rolling around. The OP said the hobs are there for much more and thus taking the leaders out will not be much of a big deal (rather, whoever's next in rank takes command till the whole deal is over)

Harris the Ford
2010-09-09, 12:03 PM
No. Organized troops don't suddenly surrender or die just because the commander is gone. That only happens when the commander is the sole reason for their unity, like a merc group or a small army when a game of loyalties is rolling around. The OP said the hobs are there for much more and thus taking the leaders out will not be much of a big deal (rather, whoever's next in rank takes command till the whole deal is over)

A valid point for a real world scenario, however DM can make it happen if he so chooses. BTW you are correct, I just worded it badly(posting on my phone, my points are hard to get across) what I meant to convey is that killing the enemy commander would greatly shift the momentum in your favor. In my opinion ot would take a great leader to bring together all the tribe of hobgoblins and some giants to fight under one banner ; seeing this leader go down in combat would be very demoralizing to the enemy.

For the most part even if what I suggest doesn't fit they are still only suggestions, and if he like them he can just re-fluff it to match his scenario. I've ran plenty of battle like this and its a really rewarding experience to be the elite group of fighters that play an enormous role in winning the battle, at least these suggestions are better than playing fetch boy bringing pales of water to the infirmaries :P

Whammydill
2010-09-09, 12:20 PM
The PC's can do some surgical striking behind enemy lines. The wizard can use invisibility 10' radius and infiltrate the party cause havoc in the supplies/food, warmage/wizard can nuke the crap outta things. Rest of party can set traps, steal supplies, kill sentries and leave their heads on pikes to demoralize the troops. Then invisi again and move somewhere else and repeat. The paladin who probably wouldnt like such underhanded tactics can maybe be a problem for it, (hey all is fair in war) might have to find something for him to do, then again maybe not if this war is is chock ful'o righteous justice or whatnot.

Liberal use of invisi, illusions, silence spells and the like can keep them safe as they conduct their raids. Meanwhile the valley troops can launch their offensive while the party is conducting their guerilla warfare. While the goblins are reacting to the turmoil in their camp, their frontlines will be really caught off guard.

CalamaroJoe
2010-09-09, 12:41 PM
Thanks everybody for the useful advice.

Actually, the BBEG is planned to recur.
Nonetheless a direct attack to the commanding person/group would have a big effect on the battle.

Random NPC
2010-09-09, 12:51 PM
Not much to input, but try reading Heroes of Battle. It's an awesome book for situations like these. :smallbiggrin: