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Ricky S
2010-09-10, 07:45 AM
I was just thinking about all the characters that I have played over my four or so years in dnd (not really that many) and I wondered what sort of party they would make if I got all of them together in one campaign.

So who would lead your party? How would they interact? What would be their strategy for fighting?

My party would be:
Lvl 6 CG Female Human Ranger
Lvl 6 CG Male Catfolk Rogue
Lvl 5 CG Male Human Fighter (Probably be the leader)
Lvl 5 CN Male Halfling Cleric
Lvl 5 CG Female Halfling Rogue
Lvl 4 CE Female Human Cleric
Lvl 1 CG Male Halfling Rogue
Lvl 1 CG Male Halfling Rogue
Lvl 1 CG Female Human Cleric

Due to the high reliability on skills they would probably rely on ambushing their foes or sneaking past them entirely. In a fair fight this party would surely lose because they lack any sort of close combat or tanking ability. They also might set up a thieves guild purely for theft so no extortion, blackmail or kidnapping because they are almost entirely good people except for that pesky lvl 4 CE cleric. They would probably reside in a large city. They would all work together pretty well because of their chaotic natures and similar ideas and there would definately be lots of partying. The fighter would probably be the leader because he is the most sensible out of all of them and would also be the most comfortable providing a face to the group as he fights in the open albeit still at a distance.

Brendan
2010-09-10, 08:04 AM
Mine would all try to kill each other. Absolutely.
In one campaign I'm playing, each character is a reincarnated version of the same spirit. Also, without the spirit, the characters are evil, impulsive monsters. So yeah. their goals would be:
kill on sight. Especially the one who currently possesses the spirit.
go to bar; find wench
Eat wench. Use bones to make bread.
Eat bread. maybe with jam.
???
Profit!

And I don't think a 1st level paladin could help with that much. Maybe the stoneblessed crusader could stop the fighting, but he'd just as well join in.

dsmiles
2010-09-10, 08:11 AM
I couldn't get my characters into the same party, too many ethical differences, and a severe case of too many leaders/not enough workers. Even trying to get the 'good' aligned ones to work together may prove to be next to impossible. I've played characters with such vastly different agendas and motives that working together is pretty much out of the question.

Sadly, I could probably put together an 'optimum' sized party out of some of the not-so-nice types(5 characters is the most efficient party size, IMO):

Lvl 7 LN Dark Stalker Fighter/Rogue/Assassin
Lvl 8 NE Human Telepath/Shadowmind (3.0 Mind's Eye version, probably the leader)
Lvl 6 CN Human TWF Rogue (probably the party's face)
Lvl 8 LE Human Cleric of Hextor
Lvl 7 NE Human Ranger (bounty hunter-type)

Their ideals and motives are wildly different, but their methods are similar enough that they could probably work together without killing each other.

Ricky S
2010-09-10, 08:12 AM
Brendan: Wow that sounds like a pretty interesting campaign I think I might use that idea when I have to dm next. I guess that the more characters you have played the more conflict there would be. Unless that is you play very similar character (which I do more often than not).

Dsmiles: Yea that is what I suspected would happen if you have played a lot of characters. Well your optimised paty seems pretty awesome and a tad bit scary. You would massacre my party with no problem.

It is interesting though that most people I have talked to have only ever played below level 10 characters. My IRL DM always starts us at either lvl one and we work our way forward or level 5 and we stay there.

kamikasei
2010-09-10, 08:38 AM
Interesting notion. Most of my past characters are from very short-lived PbP games so it'll be a big party...

Joachim, TN Factotum 4, human male
Lyanne, LN Warblade 2, human female
Maredan, TN (shapeshift) Druid 1, human male
Emla, CN Expert 1, human female
Ania, TN Wizard 3, human female
Varech, TN Psychic Warrior 6, human male
Jarel, LE Swordsage 1, human male
Den, CN Beguiler 1, changeling male
Pawn, LN Fighter 5, warforged male-persona
Derham, NG Psion (kineticist) 2, human male
Marcus, LN Wizard/Rogue/Unseen Seer 6, human male
Ortes, CN Binder//Warlock 4, half-elf male

Very low on healers and buffers. You could build a reasonable party around Joachim, Varech, Pawn and Marcus. Most could be induced to work together if a) instructed to do so by superiors, or b) paid.

If levels are equalized at ~6, Lyanne or Varech would probably be good leader candidates, while Ortes has the charisma to get the job but would be bad at it (and probably recognize this). Emla has the charisma and might not recognize her limitations. Most of the other characters with the qualifications would prefer to take a more standoffish role. Derham might have the best combination of smarts and people skills to hold the group together, though.

For non-D&D, I have four Mutants and Masterminds games open at the moment which would actually work reasonably well. PLs 11, 10, 9 and 6, so Margaret would probably not fit in, but Magda, Catriona and Adrian could form a reasonable team (if lacking in defense). Cat would be the heavy hitter, Magda the skillmonkey-skirmisher, and Adrian the face, support, and utility - also the probable leader, having the highest mental stats and best people skills. Personality-wise they could mesh as a team if they had a goal to bring them together, which would be tricky as they're from entirely different settings and none are "adventurers".

Tyndmyr
2010-09-10, 08:45 AM
Er...well, first off, I don't recall absolutely every one. However, the level range is apparently much greater than ya'lls.

The level 21 fighter would probably be the second most powerful, behind the level 15 wizard/Iot7v/incantatrix. There would be a noticable lean towards the chaotic side of things. The earlier characters would be mostly dead weights.

Lets see what I can recall:
Level 21 fighter.
Level 15 Wizard/Iot7V/Incantatrix
Level 8 Sorcerer
Level 4 Barbarian
Level 6 fighter
Level 6 fighter/sorcerer
Level 8 fighter/sorcerer
Level 4 rogue
Level 6 rogue/sorcerer
Level 6 wizard/master specialist/mindbender
Level 4 wizard/master specialist
Level 4 wizard/master specialist

Healing? We don't need no stinkin' healing.

dsmiles
2010-09-10, 08:50 AM
Dsmiles: Yea that is what I suspected would happen if you have played a lot of characters. Well your optimised paty seems pretty awesome and a tad bit scary. You would massacre my party with no problem.

It is interesting though that most people I have talked to have only ever played below level 10 characters. My IRL DM always starts us at either lvl one and we work our way forward or level 5 and we stay there.

I doubt it would be a massacre, numbers count for a lot in mass combat. They would definitely be a scary bunch though, because even the assassin and rogue were fairly evil-leaning on the G-N-E axis. And, yeah, I think I would have an awesome time playing that party, as the assassin and the telepath are easily my two favorite characters ever. (I bought minis especially for those two characters, and the rest of my characters were just, "Hmm, this mini kind of looks like my idea of this character.")

And when it takes 3 or 4 weeks of real time to gain a level (because you only play once a week), higher level characters tend to be a bit more rare. I've only played one character through into Epic levels, an Anthropomorphic Tiger Ranger 7/Druid 7/Lion of Talisid 10.

Ricky S
2010-09-10, 08:51 AM
Ah ha! Finally I meet someone who has played an epic character.

Dsmiles: Well I dunno about that. Your optimised party has 5 characters who are a couple of levels higher than my worst. I have 9 characters and three of those lvl 1 characters could be one hit. Also chances are the magic items your characters have would be far more powerful. It would also depend on how the two parties fought, open ground, indoors, etc. Because the majority of my characters are ranged and useless in combat.

Tyndmyr
2010-09-10, 08:52 AM
Mine didn't start out that way...and he kinda sucked, but he did technically make it into epic levels.

A dual whip wielding fighter. Yeaah.

dsmiles
2010-09-10, 08:56 AM
A dual whip wielding fighter. Yeaah.

That sounds like an awesome concept. If I went whip fighter, it was almost always 'whip and short sword.'

Serpentine
2010-09-10, 08:58 AM
Lets see...

Unknown alignment human-hating half-elf Ranger/Wildrunner with pseudodragon companion.
Unstable CG 3/4 succubus 1/4 elf non-magical 2-weapon Ranger heading towards Tempest (I think) with a fondness for jewellery and a complex relating to the Hells.
Child-like TN? half-orc Rogue heading towards Catlord with a well-developed sense of self-preservation and a fondness for kitties.
CG human Rogue born without vocal chords but with a successful middle-class madame mother.
Brand new TN warforged Ranger with a rockin' bow and few preconceptions about the world.
Exiled recovering alcoholic LG dwarf Knight who just wants to go home.

Hmm... The half-elf could probably ignore the human easily enough. The tiefling could either get frustrated with the half-orc, or take her under her wing. Maybe both.
The tiefling and the Knight will probably have some initial issues, but will have some common ground in the importance of home. So, I'd say they'd have a good bit of antagonism, but underscored with sympathetic understanding.
The Knight would tend to mother the two Rogues, and try to be a good influence on them.
Actually... I think they'd end up with a rather family-like dynamic. The mute Rogue will be the precocious(sp?) and mischievous older sister to the simple-headed half-orc Rogue, leading her into all sorts of trouble. The half-elf Ranger will be the petulant, bitter teenage daughter. The Knight will be the put-upon "always has to be the bad guy" mother, while the tiefling will be the laid-back, "let them make their own mistakes" father - but both ready to unite as protective mother bears at a moment's notice.
edit: Tsk, silly me. The warforged would be the surprisingly powerful baby brother, spoiled rotten by the lot. The mute Rogue would treat it much like the half-orc - a playmate to drag into trouble. It would be a toy to the half-orc. The half-elf would probably largely dismiss it from consideration, but maybe display a small fondness when noone's looking. The Knight will probably treat it as a simple machine until it properly demonstrates that it is a thinking, feeling being. The tiefling will consider it her equal in every way, and would probably come up with tactics taking advantage of their respective abilities.

Yeah... Could be fun :smallcool:

valadil
2010-09-10, 09:07 AM
Mine would say to hell with adventuring and try to found a magical university. They might even conjure up something with four walls and a pile of diplomas, but petty squabbling would take over long before they ever taught anyone anything.

I'm not about to list everything I've played, but lets just say I've run a lot of wizards.

Zaydos
2010-09-10, 09:08 AM
I've mostly DM'd but those I've played as a PC at least once in the last few years:
Zantar (NG): Druid 4/Wiz 3/Arcane Hierophant 10/Homebrewed Arcane Hierophant continuation class 3.
Andoric (NG): Evangelical cleric of the god of healing, only played as a PC once, and then came back as an NPC in another person's adventure. Cleric 15.
Zanar (CG): Warlock 9; fey themed.
Vindalf (LG): Dwarf Crusader with intelligent armor. Lv 9.
Laughing Tom (CG): Crazy Wizard 5/Wild Mage 4 with Practiced Spellcaster allowed (my other concept was a Master Transmuter, this was less scary) and a Pixie familiar (the DM suggested it).

And PbP adds:
Asmyria (CG): Nymph/Paladin (of Freedom) 3//Sorcerer 14/Abjurant Champion 2.
Arthram (TN on his way to C/NE): Binder 3/Totemist 2/Midnight Occultist (homebrewed PrC by Dragoon Wraith; probably my favorite homebrew on the board) 5.
Teres (alignment not used... I'd say a mild LE or NE): Dread Necromancer 5//Hexblade 5.
Gunthbrand (CG): Were-rhino Swordsage 2//Barbarian 4/Fighter 2/Frenzied Berserker 6.
Zillithon (LE): Illithid 8/Monster of Legend 2/Ullithard 4/Psion 1 (using Osclemo's Monster Classes also on these forums)//Conjurer 3/Master Specialist 10/Loremaster 2.
Thorgrim (LG): Dwarf Paladin (modified to be Wis based) 2//Ardent 2.
Raphael (NG): Sacred Healer (my own homebrew, follow link in sig) 3.

Now to actually make these into a party. The difference between levels and gestalt would be troublesome. Alignment might get awkward... and sheer numbers.

A dedicated 15th level healer (if I'd known about it at the time he'd have been a Radiant Servant of Pelor Baldur, since it fits him perfectly).
The most powerful two would be the gestalt casters, followed by the wizard/druid. It becomes interesting in that he had become a god and in my next campaign world (which eventually got DM'd by one of my players for a few adventures) he was reflected/reincarnated as both Zanar (his divine half) and Laughing Tom (his mortal half) so that would be an interesting group.

Tactics? The differences in Gestalt or non-gestalt and level make this problematic. You get the four high level full casters handling everything and the others are just followers. Andoric and Zantar's animal companion become the main melee for the group. Zantar continues his role as buff mage, Zillithon uses BC and Save or Die/Lose (the extra +14 to his Int makes this a more effective strategy), and the nymph uses mostly Save or Lose too.

Leader? Even more troublesome. The nymph has the charisma for it, but haven't played her enough to know if she'd assume that role. Zantar probably would end up taking it. Andoric would call himself it. Zillithon would not adventure in the same party as the rest.

dsmiles
2010-09-10, 09:14 AM
Ah ha! Finally I meet someone who has played an epic character.

Dsmiles: Well I dunno about that. Your optimised party has 5 characters who are a couple of levels higher than my worst. I have 9 characters and three of those lvl 1 characters could be one hit. Also chances are the magic items your characters have would be far more powerful. It would also depend on how the two parties fought, open ground, indoors, etc. Because the majority of my characters are ranged and useless in combat.

Let's see, the Assassin fought with an Angelwing Razor (BoVD) Kukri and a +2 defending kukri and wore a +2 Shadowed/Silent mithril shirt; the TWF Rogue had a matched set of two +2 returning daggers and studded leather +1; the Telepath had a measly +1 power storing staff (usually with a 5-point mind thrust stored in it) and a ring of protection +2; the Ranger had a +2 Unholy Longbow; and the Cleric had +1 full plate, and a +2 morningstar. Not overpowered, and almost underpowered (except the assassin) for most campaigns.
Out of all of them, the assassin was the most deadly in melee, and the telepath was dominate/suggestion heavy (with not-too-shabby save DCs) for some serious battlefield control. The other three were pretty much supporting cast.
On open ground, your ranged combat guys would have the advantage, though in an urban setting, or in an area with lots of LoS obstacles, I could probably pull it off.

Ricky S
2010-09-10, 09:14 AM
Mine would say to hell with adventuring and try to found a magical university. They might even conjure up something with four walls and a pile of diplomas, but petty squabbling would take over long before they ever taught anyone anything.

I'm not about to list everything I've played, but lets just say I've run a lot of wizards.

Haha sounds like they would be better off creating a fraternity at a magical university rather than trying to make their own uni.

JeenLeen
2010-09-10, 09:19 AM
Only played one long (lv 1 - 22 or 23) D&D campaign, but here are the characters I went through in it. The levels I'm sure are off somewhat.

Lv 3 N (leaning evil) Elf Wizard, worships Vecna as god of knowledge and wants to prove that he needn't be evil to serve his family's god

Lv 12 CG Gnome Cleric of Pelor

Lv 14 CG Human Rogue/Slayer of Faerinal (houseruled Eladrin-based Slayer PrC from BoED)

Lv 17 NE Human Duskblade

Lv 16 NG Necropolitan Human Rogue

Lv 18 NG Changeling Totemist/Wildshaper (whatever PrC aids combat for shapeshifters)

Lv 22 NG Gray Elf Wizard (Batman-type with War Weaver to buff)

If in a party, most would work well together, except the Duskblade (who was a spy for one of the BBEG's generals.) The Slayer-Rogue would probably kill the Vecna-worshiper if he found out, but otherwise all of them would be dedicated to the same goal for different reasons. The Necropolitan was a worshiper of Pelor and wanting to repent for becoming Undead in his past.

Assuming the Duskblade dies/flees and the low-level wizard keeps his religion hidden, I could see the team working.

The wizard buffs and does field control. The totemist is up-front melee, with the rogues assisting on the side. The cleric does some healing, field control, and blasting. The low-level wizard tosses a few Grease or low-level buffs to contribute what little he can.

kestrel404
2010-09-10, 09:21 AM
This should be interesting. I'll restrict this to my last 10 games (played), or else this would be a very long list. I will, however, do my best to convert from other systems.

Level 1 LG dwarf artificer (Earthdawn, Weaponsmith)
Level 5 CG human Warmage/Monk (It was a Mage game, I was playing an Akashic)
Level 10 CG half-orc rogue/swordsage (Earthdawn, thief/swordmaster)
Level 6 CN human rogue/scout/unarmed swordsage/illusionist/dragon shaman/chameleon (Earthdawn, Journeyman, which is like Chameleon as a base class)
Level 3 NG warforged artificer (Earthdawn, Obsidiman Weaponsmith)
...Long dry spell in which I ran all the games
Level 4 TN human fighter/scout (Noir, I was playing a detective)
Level 6 LG kalashtar marshal (Conspirpiracy X, I was playing a Major in the army, but with strange unintentional psychic stuff)
Level 10 LG half-dragon paladin (Homebrew)
Level ~30 NE human artificer (Homebrew)
Level 12 NG Pixie Warlock (Earthdawn, Windling wizard)

OK, in all honesty, the entire group would band together to fight off the overwhelming threat - the level 30 evil artificer. Most of them would get on fine, although there might be a bit of tension between the very reckless and the by-the-book rules followers.

valadil
2010-09-10, 09:30 AM
Haha sounds like they would be better off creating a fraternity at a magical university rather than trying to make their own uni.

I think they're all too arrogant for that to work. They'd want to be founders rather than a subset of something else.

Ricky S
2010-09-10, 09:33 AM
Dsmiles: Yea I think that would be true. Nearly all of my characters are ranged except for my lvl 1 cleric and lvl 4 cleric and they can cast spells. My ranger and fighter would be the most damaging. The ranger has a Frost Greatbow and the fighter has a master work greatbow. Both have rapid shot. so that is 4d10+2d6+12 possible damage from them. Then all the other crossbows with sneak attack damage.

But who has ever fought on an open playing field? Not me (not even when I played in a desert campaign). Your rogue types could probably just assassinate my low levels in their sleep and even the odds.

JeenLeen: That would be a pretty powerful party. Except of course for your level 3 wizard :smallwink:

Zaydos
2010-09-10, 09:51 AM
Well just looking at my non-gestalt characters (as they're actually playing the same game).

Zantar would lead; Andoric would want to/claim to.
Those two would be the heavy hitters for the group. 9th level druid spells, and 8th level wizard and cleric spells between them. Also an animal companion (equivalent of a 20th level druid's thanks to Natural Bond) for some good melee.

After them the power level takes a dip to Tom. BC Conjurer with some decent damage spells (a 2nd level dragonlance campaign setting spell that dealt 1d6+10 damage, 5 times with ranged touch, Fort save for half each time) and Draconic Polymorph on an invisible pixie :smallbiggrin:

Then Vindalf (Devoted Spirit gives +8d8 damage attacks), and Arthram (melee totemist/binder gish-theurge thing). Against CR 9 creatures Vindalf's AC was good enough to dodge most attacks (although the 1 time he was played the frost giant got 19, 20, 20 on its attack rolls... it needed a 16+ to hit; he also was a variant dwarf that had its AC bonus versus dragons instead of giants).

Zanar is just hard to kill. Unable to lie (but got a familiar, and was considered to have a feat for the purposes of prerequisites in exchange). He can also reliably ping for damage.

Then we get to Raphael who... can heal them a bit.

Tactics: Buffs from the Wizard/Druid, healing and some melee from the cleric (Harm!), with the animal companion as the front line combatant. Against encounters in their power range Arthram and Vindalf can make some pretty good combatants, dealing it out and with an AC that is still relevant at their level.

Zanar sits back and pings for minor damage, and Raphael heals the injured occasionally but due to being 3rd level sits back and provides out of combat healing... which Andoric still does better with Touch of Healing.