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Balor01
2010-09-10, 08:14 AM
I am again speculating about something, but I do not know lore of Dark sun enough to get a probable answer on a following question: Say a rift appears between generic, green, hilly and forest-y D&D world and Dark Sun world.

Would Dark Sun inhabitants invade en-masse?

Also, how do you think that traditional prime powers (lvl 20 wizards, druids and clerics and some strong monsters of a generic world) would fare against intruders from Dark Sun? If there would even be a conflict, considering the attitude of Dark Sun inhabitants.

Open for speculation :)

dsmiles
2010-09-10, 08:17 AM
I am again speculating about something, but I do not know lore of Dark sun enough to get a probable answer on a following question: Say a rift appears between generic, green, hilly and forest-y D&D world and Dark Sun world.

Would Dark Sun inhabitants invade en-masse?

Also, how do you think that traditional prime powers (lvl 20 wizards, druids and clerics and some strong monsters of a generic world) would fare against intruders from Dark Sun? If there would even be a conflict, considering the attitude of Dark Sun inhabitants.

Open for speculation :)

In earlier editions, travel to and from Athas was impossible.
Not sure about 4e, but if I lived in a desert world, I would definitely invade a green, foresty, happy place, where adventurers can start a level 1 and don't need character trees.

Tyndmyr
2010-09-10, 08:23 AM
The easiest ways to link them would be A. Sigil, or B. Spelljammer. A direct rift between very different settings generally would require a great deal of explanation. Especially if the list of dieties differ between them.

hamishspence
2010-09-10, 08:24 AM
It's suggested here:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DarkSun

that there was one crossover to Ravenloft, and that Dark Sun Halflings make an appearence in one of the Baldur's Gate Games.

Still, it's pretty rare.

There was also the bit about githyanki trying to invade Athas, being repulsed, and deciding to stay well away.

Zaydos
2010-09-10, 08:25 AM
In earlier editions, travel to and from Athas was impossible.
Not sure about 4e, but if I lived in a desert world, I would definitely invade a green, foresty, happy place, where adventurers can start a level 1 and don't need character trees.

It was all but impossible, but not quite impossible. Magic of Athas actually had rules (extremely deadly though) for using standard plane traveling magic to escape Athas onto the Outer Planes (the Grey usually got you), and in Planescape it did talk about rare portals to and from Athas. There was also hints of a githyanki invasion of Athas but I never read much about it.

Now this still brings up the question of which edition would this be?

2e: Athas wins. They have better ability scores, a higher average level, defilers level up faster than other mages, and the sorcerer kings can cast 10th level spells. Other wizards can't. Also everyone is psychic.

3.5: Closer. It depends upon the individual world they're attacking. The Sorcerer-Kings are still stronger than standard "powers" (they have double 9s without early entry and then epic casting). Athas would still invade or flee and the other world's main hope is that Athas isn't united. I'd have to know how Defiling works in 3.5 whether it's the free metamagic from Dragon Magazine or using some other source. A united front would probably beat Athasians, but the Sorcerer-Kings could possibly tear through the world in days if they wanted to even without uniting.

4e: No idea.

Eldan
2010-09-10, 08:25 AM
An older player once explained to me that during the AD&D era, a lot of Planescape PCs came from Athas, simply because that gave them free psionics.

Anyway, that depends entirely on the world. Dark Sun isn't the only horrible one. But the generic green garden land? They'd probably try to wander over. Maybe some would expect a trap.

If I remember correctly, the Gith invasion of Athas was retconned to be done by a separate Gith species, the Gith pirates, which was a degenerate, Athas-only offshoot of the Githyanki. Or at least I've seen that mentioned on Planewalker.

Zaydos
2010-09-10, 08:31 AM
An older player once explained to me that during the AD&D era, a lot of Planescape PCs came from Athas, simply because that gave them free psionics.

Anyway, that depends entirely on the world. Dark Sun isn't the only horrible one. But the generic green garden land? They'd probably try to wander over. Maybe some would expect a trap.

If I remember correctly, the Gith invasion of Athas was retconned to be done by a separate Gith species, the Gith pirates, which was a degenerate, Athas-only offshoot of the Githyanki. Or at least I've seen that mentioned on Planewalker.

The Pirates of the Gith were a Spelljammer Gith offshoot race.

In the Planeswalker's Handbook for 2e it said that Athasians would close naturally occurring portals suspecting Githyankis to come out. That's the only mention it made of an invasion of Athas, also implies that Athasians can do something that is supposed to be impossible (stop natural portals).

Eldan
2010-09-10, 08:33 AM
Oh, they were in Spelljammer too? I quite distinctly remember them being mentioned regarding Dark Sun as well.

Zaydos
2010-09-10, 08:37 AM
Oh, they were in Spelljammer too? I quite distinctly remember them being mentioned regarding Dark Sun as well.

I don't know, I only had the original Dark Sun box set and the Magic of Dark Sun book. For Planescape it was the box set and Planeswalker's Guide (the latter before the former) and Monstrous Compendiums I, II, and III. For Spelljammer it was the books from the box set (bought separately), the Monstrous Compendium I and II (which had the stats, although they were also in the Monster Manual as a Spelljamming monster), the Legend of the Spelljammer box set, and a few modules. So I never heard about them in regards of Athas but it is completely possible they did exist in regards to it.

As far as Spelljamming is concerned, at least according to the Magic of Dark Sun the crystal sphere is almost inaccessible through the Flow making it slightly easier than passing through the Grey.

Coidzor
2010-09-10, 08:42 AM
The Epic-level defilers would probably try to conquer it and ruin it like they did their world if there weren't Elminster-types running around, because all that life would be too tempting to draw upon for power.

Borys would probably attract the ire of all of dragonkind for being an abomination that's even more powerful than they are, and likely start gathering large number of slaves of the kobold and goblinoid variety once he realized those things would, in large enough numbers create a stable population for use in keeping Rajaat at bay with their reproductive habits.

The low-level people and mooks from Dark Sun would be at a disadvantage against equivalently leveled foes due to the fact that Dark Sun has inferior materials available and less weapon technology available than a standard setting.

On the other hand, everyone from Dark Sun would be ******* insane and ultra-violent by most settings' standards and would surprise even the orcs with their, uh, ferocity and desperation.

But, yeah, pretty much anyone who didn't have some kind of investment in real estate that would still be valuable would try to get over if they at all could, and even in many cases when they couldn't.

I think the beasties from Dark Sun are a lot more vicious and nasty than a garden world's stuff, but I can't recall whether they're *ahem* weak against water or not. Because if they aren't, they'll probably start coming over and ruining the ecology of the green world to bring it more in line with the mess that is Dark Sun.

dsmiles
2010-09-10, 08:54 AM
It was all but impossible, but not quite impossible. Magic of Athas actually had rules (extremely deadly though) for using standard plane traveling magic to escape Athas onto the Outer Planes (the Grey usually got you), and in Planescape it did talk about rare portals to and from Athas. There was also hints of a githyanki invasion of Athas but I never read much about it.

Never had that book, I only had the boxed set for Dark Sun, and I didn't get into Planescape much, except the Blood War CCG.

hamlet
2010-09-10, 09:07 AM
The Githyanki attempted to invade Athas at one point, I believe because there was an outpost of Githzerai there. However, one side or the other set off the fantasy equivalent of a psi-nuke which turned all remaining members of both species on the planet into the degenerate Gith, a right nasty bunch. The Githyanki, scared witless and following the better part of valor, sealed off all portals and declared Athas a no-go zone.

It's detailed in the moderately terrible Black Spine adventure. (frankly, most published mods for Dark Sun were pretty terrible)

Interplanar travel was supposed to be extremely difficult to and from Athas, in 2nd edition anyway. Can't speak for other editions. Those that tried it were routinely destroyed or, if they were lucky, driven mad by the revelation that the planet is a sealed system inaccessible from both standard planar travel methods (spells and portals) as well as Spelljamming. It was intended, originally, to enhance the . . . "tradgedy" of the situation, I suppose, and explain why the most powerful beings on the planet didn't simply magic themselves to green and pleasant lands leaving the rest of the suckers to die horribly in the sand and to make players feel a little trapped.

Of course, it was immediately and routinely ignored by most everybody as demons and planeshopping canibal halflings cropped up everywhere, including an entire neighborhood of them in Sigil.

As for the original question, it probably wouldn't happen. Athas is sealed away by something (either a higher higher power or inadvetaintly by its own inhabitants, but hinted to have something to do with the change in the sun that final time) to wallow in its own misery perpetually. If, however, it were to somehow happen, I imagine that opportunists from the desert world would invade immediately, but I doubt seriously that there would be an en mass emigration/invasion, or that any of the sorceror kings would leave (they're safer and more comfortable where their power base is, new lands equal new, unknown risks).

The bigger risk, of course, would be to people who wandered in from the other land and got trapped. I have a dream about Elminster wandering into Athas and, within 10 minutes, being attacked, slain, and served in a stew to halflings.

Zaydos
2010-09-10, 09:18 AM
Never had that book, I only had the boxed set for Dark Sun, and I didn't get into Planescape much, except the Blood War CCG.

Which reminds me I also had the Bloodwar Box set for Planescape.

@hamlet: So that's how the Gith on Dark Sun came about good to know.

I would say some of the sorcerer-king's (the one from Urik for example) would probably invade, although all of them is unlikely.

And Elminster stew :smallbiggrin: No Mystra to protect you here!