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The Vorpal Tribble
2010-09-10, 09:30 PM
#1. I am playing a were-bird which gives me two primary claw attacks and a secondary bite attack.

I take Green Star Adept which grants me a slam attack (I'm saying I'm giving them some wing-beat down).

In my hybrid state can I also use weapons? It says the hands are prehensile, and I still have clawed feet and a beak for biting.


#2. Would the slam attack be a secondary attack? It says in the text that it deals damage, with a Strength bonus of 1 1/2. Secondary attacks only do half.

Jallorn
2010-09-10, 09:41 PM
Yes, you can still wield weapons, however, any attacks you get with them must be made with a normal BAB attack, you don't get to, say, attack with a primary natural attack then add a weapon strike if you only get one attack from BAB.

And no, the Slam attack is a primary attack that happens to count as two handed.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-09-10, 09:44 PM
Yes, you can still wield weapons, however, any attacks you get with them must be made with a normal BAB attack, you don't get to, say, attack with a primary natural attack then add a weapon strike if you only get one attack from BAB.
I have a base attack of +9, which means I could get a secondary attack if I was using weapons.

Not entirely sure I understand the explanation above.


And no, the Slam attack is a primary attack that happens to count as two handed.
So I can do both a slam attack and two claw attacks as a primary weapon you're saying?

Tyndmyr
2010-09-10, 09:49 PM
#1. I am playing a were-bird which gives me two primary claw attacks and a secondary bite attack.

I take Green Star Adept which grants me a slam attack (I'm saying I'm giving them some wing-beat down).


:smallconfused: I don't know offhand how much LA and RHD is on a werebird, but I can't imagine that plus GSA being very workable.

Cog
2010-09-10, 10:01 PM
Not entirely sure I understand the explanation above.
That explanation is wrong.

These weapons deal damage based on the hybrid formís size. A hybrid may attack with a weapon and a bite, or may attack with its natural weapons. The bite attack of a hybrid is a secondary attack.
You make your normal weapon attacks according to BAB, and you make whatever natural attacks you have available as secondary attacks (at BAB -5, unless you invest in other feats). Even though your were-animal is a bird, your claws are on your hands; you don't get the claw attacks if you're wielding a weapon.

If you do this, the slam would become a secondary attack, and deal only +.5 STR. If you only attacked with the slam, it would go back to +1.5 STR.

Urpriest
2010-09-10, 10:06 PM
You're playing Little Starry Eyes??? Wicked...

To add to the above, if you ignored weapons you could probably choose to attack with either Slam primary and claws+bite secondary or claws primary and bite+slam secondary. Both are primary, but only one counts as primary during a full attack.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-09-10, 10:08 PM
:smallconfused: I don't know offhand how much LA and RHD is on a werebird, but I can't imagine that plus GSA being very workable.
LA is +2, and it's a were-chordevoc. It actually works quite well when used together: Little Starry-Eyes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8888409#post8888409)

Now I'm attempting to play her and running into questions you don't when simply building it.


These weapons deal damage based on the hybrid formís size. A hybrid may attack with a weapon and a bite, or may attack with its natural weapons. The bite attack of a hybrid is a secondary attack.
Ahh, that's what I was looking for. Thanks. Completely skipped over it.


You're playing Little Starry Eyes??? Wicked...
Making the attempt anyways. In a gestalt campaign no less :smallwink:

Keld Denar
2010-09-10, 10:23 PM
Primary natural weapons aren't always primary. If you wield a manufactured weapon, then your primary natural weapons become secondary natural weapons (with the -5 and 1/2 str bonus).

Just about everything that gives you a natural attack specifies that if you are using it as a primary natural weapon, it is at full BAB and 1x str bonus, but if you are using it as a secondary natural attack, you get the -5 and 1/2 str bonus. Since you can't have a primary natural weapon when you are using a manufactured weapon, or already have a primary natural weapon when you gain another natural weapon, that natural weapon always becomes a secondary natural weapon.

Hope this clears things up a bit. GL playing LSE though...grumble grumble grumble...beat my awesome build...grumble grumble grumble...