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Bugbeartrap
2010-09-12, 04:43 PM
Hello playground! I was hoping to get some advice/ideas for a character I'm making (Finally, I get to be a PC!). We are playing gestalt rules with LA taking up only one side of the build and one free level of LA. All books are legal with Dragon stuff on a case by case basis. Prerolled stats used by whole party: 18, 15, 14, 12, 10, 9. I'm starting at level four.

The party consists of:
Necropolitan Druid4//Sorc4 with Charisma to HP as a feat
Aasimar Cleric4//Scout4 travel devotion, zen archery... yada yada
Dragonborn Human Knight4//Bard4 or Marshal4 he hasn't Gestalted yet

My character concept started as a debuffer type (hexblade4/paladin of tyranny3//???) to help my caster buddies. I got Unseelie Fey approved which fits the theme mechanics but I still need some LA. I would prefer a template I could apply on top of human but I'm not dead-set on it. Fluffwise, Jinx is the lone survivor of colonizing force sent to North America Terra Nova; it is here that he meets the rest of the party.

My first thought was to choose sorceror for the other side and take advantage of my tasty aura's, but charisma caster's don't seem to get nice things like Int caster's do. Can anyone think of something fun to slap onto this? or change my mind about charisma caster's?

Da Beast
2010-09-12, 05:02 PM
Sorcerer is fine if you PrC out. It's not as good as wizard, but not as good as wizard is hardly the same thing as bad. Consider the ACF from PHB2 that replaces your familiar with improved meta magic utility and now you really have no reason to stay in sorcerer. As for good PrCs, anything with full casting is neat-o. One idea I've been wanting to try is wildmage with practiced caster. Wildmages lose 3 caster levels but get to roll 1d6 to add to caster level whenever they cast a spell. Practiced spellcaster gives you back those three caster levels and just gives you +1d6 caster level all the time. For your other side, consider just dipping into anything that gives you +cha to something. With enough dipping you can get charisma to saves multiple times, AC, attack, damage, various skills, and probably some other things. Google "X stat to Y bonus" and go from there.

Ernir
2010-09-12, 07:23 PM
Charisma is a stat that tends to be very easy to add to anything. Especially in Gestalt.

So you could start as something like... Paladin of T/Hexblade/Marshal//Bard, and make charisma-based skill checks, charisma-based attack rolls, charisma based damage rolls, charisma-based trip attacks, charisma*2 based saving throws, charisma-based initiative checks, charisma-based AC and charisma-based charisma, too. (And no, I am not kidding on the last part, look at the Marshal's Motivate Charisma ability.)

If you want some more "ash nazg gimbatul" action on your caster, there's the Doomspeak feat in Champions of Ruin.

avr
2010-09-12, 10:09 PM
Binder/KotSS uses CHA and gestalts with a debuffer/meleer fairly well.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-09-12, 11:58 PM
First of all, take a look at Half-Fey (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a) from the Fiend Folio. That gets a +2 LA, so one point would be free and the other would take one level of gestalt. I'd use Gnome for the base race for the small size and Con boost, and if possible take the feat Magic in the Blood from PGtF to make all of your 1/day spell-like abilities usable 3/day instead. If you can't use that feat, use Illumian from Races of Destiny for your base race with the Naenhoon runeword, and with four Paladin of Tyranny levels you'll be able to spend turn attempts to persist two of your Sorcerer spells every day. Another option would be to use Desert Kobold (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#desertKobolds) as the base race, you can use the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) to boost your Sorcerer spellcasting, and even get Dragonwrought with Loredrake if you want that much cheese.

Note that given the savage progression, you could hold off (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a) on gaining the second point of level adjustment until later on in the build. That way you would be able to get it without losing any spellcasting or BAB. You should give up your familiar for the PH2 ACF to be able to use metamagic feats and rods without increasing the casting time of spells. Note that you won't have to use this with any spell that has a Swift Action cast time, as the rule only says spells with a standard action cast time or greater. You can cast Wraithstrike with a Lesser Rod of Extend so it lasts two rounds and it will still be a swift action.

For a Half-Fey Gnome build I'd go something like this:
1. Paladin of Tyranny 1// Sorcerer 1, Magic in the Blood
2. Paladin of Tyranny 2// Sorcerer 2
3. Paladin of Tyranny 3// Sorcerer 3, Power Attack
4. Paladin of Tyranny 4// Sorcerer 4
5. Spellsword 1// LA +1
6. Spellsword 2// Sorcerer 5, Combat Reflexes, Divine Might
7. Spellsword 3// Unarmed Swordsage 1
8. Spellsword 4// Sorcerer 6
9. Spellsword 5// Unarmed Swordsage 2, Ascetic Mage
10. Spellsword 6// Sorcerer 7
11. Spellsword 7// Unarmed Swordsage 3
12. Spellsword 8// Sorcerer 8, Arcane Strike
13. Spellsword 9// Unarmed Swordsage 4
14. Spellsword 10// Sorcerer 9

At this point, the rest of the build is completely open. You could just finish with Sorcerer//Unarmed Swordsage, go Sorcerer//Crusader, or anything else you feel like taking. You could even switch out Combat Reflexes and Divine Might for Cleave and Improved Sunder, and go Blackguard//Sorcerer from 11-20. In that case I'd be sure to get Divine Might later on, since there's nothing better to spend those rebuke attempts on. Other good feats to pick up would be Extra Readied Maneuver, Adaptive Style, and Extra Granted Maneuver if using Crusader.

You can also use a full spellcasting prestige class and pair it with Crusader or Swordsage, but it would need to have few or no feat prerequisites. One good choice is Divine Oracle, which requires Skill Focus: Kn: Religion. You can start out with that for 2,000 gold instead of spending a feat on it by saying you've visited the Frog God's Fane detailed in Complete Scoundrel, in which case the gp cost presumes you succeeded in making the Int check to gain the feat. That grants Uncanny Dodge and Evasion, definitely useful abilities to have. You could finish with Divine Oracle//Crusader from 11-20, which would actually be a really good finish.


If you want to go Half-Fey Illumian (Naenhoon) I'd recommend the same level build, but your feats would be different. Get Extend Spell (1), Persistent Spell (3), Power Attack (Spsw2), Extra Turning (6), Ascetic Mage (9), and Arcane Strike (12). The rest of the build including later feats should be the same as the gnome build. If you can get a Night Stick you can put Arcane Strike at 6th level instead of Extra Turning, if you can get more than one Night Stick you should get Divine Might later on as well. Your persistent spells early on could be Shield, Wraithstrike, Bladeweave, or Displacement. Later on you'll be able to just cast those persistent and spend your two Naenhoon uses on higher level spells, such as Ray Deflection, Greater Mirror Image (PH2), and Arcane Spellsurge (DM). Definitely get the Sorcerer-only spells Wings of Cover and Wings of Flurry from Races of the Dragon, who says Int-based casters get all the good stuff? Another great spell to have later on is Heroics since you can use it to gain Martial Study and/or Martial Stance and temporarily gain access to an extra maneuver or stance. Definitely get Whirling Blade, and you should get Cloudkill to use with your Spellsword Channel Spell ability since it will become a targeted effect which deals 1d4 Con damage per round for a minute per caster level.

Your items should include a Circlet of Rapid Casting in MIC. You should also get a few Lesser Rods of Extend for your low-level buffs. A Lesser Rod of Sculpting (CA) is also good to use with Whirling Blade, change its area to four 10 ft. cubes and stack them all on the same four creatures so you'll get four attacks on each one, with Wraithstrike and Power Attack and Arcane Strike and Divine Might on every attack. The Raiment of the Four set in MIC is good to have, and Runestaves in MIC will greatly expand your list of available spells. You'll get your Cha bonus to AC when wearing light or no armor later on, and with Spellsword you can wear Mithril Breastplate with no drawbacks apart from the standard armor check and max dex. A Spell Storing weapon would be useful, get a Lesser Rod of Maximize to put a Vampiric Touch into it.

kestrel404
2010-09-13, 09:06 AM
Cha Gestalt Debuffer:

Race: Draconic Star Elf
Alignment: LE
Attributes: Str 18, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 9, Wis 12, Cha 22

Side A: Cleric 1/Hexblade 19
Side B: Paladin of Tyrrany 4/Ordained Champion 5/Warpriest 10/x 1
Feats: Draconic Aura (Fire Shield) (DrM 16, PHB2 13) @1, Empower Curse (DragMag 339 p93) @3, Power Attack @4, Various others

Cleric options: Cloistered Cleric, Diety Hextor, Domains War and Destruction,
Paladin options: (Un)Holy Warrior - give up spellcasting, get bonus feat at 4th level.
Hexblade options: Take the Dark Companion from PHB2 (replaces hexblade familiar), it helps with debuffing.

What you need: You need the War domain from cleric as well as Knowledge(religion) 7 to get into Ordained Champion. You'll need Combat Casting and a few skills to get into Warpriest. Unfortunately, none of your stats except maybe int can be considdered dump stats.

What you get: Ordained champion lets you burn turn attempts to do a non-aligned smite. You get a bonus to attack equal to your turning level - which is always your character level -2 from when you get it (at 6th level) until 20th. You get full Hexblade Curse progression. You get 9/20 cleric casting - not great but nothing to sneeze at either. Full Base attack bonus, good For & Will saves.