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Doomboy911
2010-09-12, 10:23 PM
Well the campaign I'm running has reached an odd point in which if the group wishes to reach an artifact they must cross a lake of lava. The problem is we have one level two warforged barbarian , a changeling rogue (same level), am artificer and a druid (all the same level two. So with these resources how would you cross it?

Reynard
2010-09-12, 10:28 PM
What level.

Also, universal solution: Druid turns into an animal that can solve the problem -> problem solved.

Mystic Muse
2010-09-12, 10:29 PM
What level.

Also, universal solution: Druid turns into an animal that can solve the problem -> problem solved.

doesn't get wildshape until fifth level.

Doomboy911
2010-09-12, 10:32 PM
They're all level two.
Bear in mind there is a store outside that they can reach so if you can think of a useful item that would work.

Reynard
2010-09-12, 10:32 PM
Ah, couldn't see that in the OP.

Well, how big is the distance between where the party is and where they need to be?

Lord Raziere
2010-09-12, 10:33 PM
its a lake right? can't they just walk around it?

dgnslyr
2010-09-12, 10:34 PM
Create Water to cool the lava and make Obsidian? Given that your druid is only level 2, this may not work so well, with only 4 gallons per casting.
*sigh* too much dwarf fortress...

Fax Celestis
2010-09-12, 10:36 PM
Dungeonscape, pg. 36. Lava stones. Alchemical items that make platforms in lava that last for 3d8 minutes. Balance check to stay on, and they're 24gp each. Got a more expensive version that costs 114gp, but you shouldn't need those since you don't have any Large creatures.

There's even a picture.
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/dungeonscape_gallery/102755.jpg


Create Water to cool the lava and make Obsidian? Given that your druid is only level 2, this may not work so well, with only 4 gallons per casting.

Wouldn't make obsidian anyway. Cooled lava makes igneous stone. Obsidian requires other circumstances that just pouring water on it wouldn't likely create.

Reluctance
2010-09-12, 10:37 PM
If the artifact is small enough, the druid can summon a hawk to pick it up and fly it back.

Otherwise, the artificer is probably the key to this. We'd need to know more about the artifact and the location itself. Scroll to Alter Self into something flying is my first impulse, but there are probably complicating factors.

Gavinfoxx
2010-09-12, 10:47 PM
Does everyone have one rank of UMD, and the artificer has a masterwork tool of UMD?

Artificer makes one potion of one of the skill augmenting spells that let people use a skill untrained, for the warforged and the changeling. Artificer makes a scroll of Alter Self for each person but the Druid. Artificer hands the UMD masterwork tool to the first person, who uses the potion and a scroll to alter self into a winged creature, and then to the next and the next. Artificer with maxed UMD doesn't need a potion to alter self into a winged creature. They all fly across.

The druid doesn't have to do this, he just casts Winged Watcher and flies across. If the bird for Winged Watcher is big enough or the artefact is small enough, they could ignore the artificer shenanigans to retrieve the object.

Lhurgyof
2010-09-12, 10:50 PM
The ambient heat would be enough to kill either, plus the poisonous gasses... It'd require more than the stones or summons.


Does everyone have one rank of UMD, and the artificer has a masterwork tool of UMD?


... O.o

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-09-12, 10:51 PM
Let's hear about the artifact.


Dungeonscape, pg. 36. Lava stones. Alchemical items that make platforms in lava that last for 3d8 minutes. Balance check to stay on, and they're 24gp each. Got a more expensive version that costs 114gp, but you shouldn't need those since you don't have any Large creatures.

There's even a picture.
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/dungeonscape_gallery/102755.jpg
Gah... what I hate about that, is the foot is still 'inches' from the lava. Anyone using those stones should be incinerated in seconds even if they were feet away. Do they have any heat dampening properties?

dgnslyr
2010-09-12, 10:52 PM
Wouldn't make obsidian anyway. Cooled lava makes igneous stone. Obsidian requires other circumstances that just pouring water on it wouldn't likely create.

Like I said, too much Dwarf Fortress. You'd get something not lava, anyway, which is a start. Lavastones look interesting, but is the party in a position to go out and get any?

Gavinfoxx
2010-09-12, 10:52 PM
This is fantasy guys! Everyone knows that lava isn't more dangerous than boiling beeswax!


Like I said, too much Dwarf Fortress. You'd get something not lava, anyway, which is a start. Lavastones look interesting, but is the party in a position to go out and get any?

There's an ARTIFICER in the party... everyone just attempts to aid another, the artificer uses infusions for skill bonus, maybe the artificer crafts a quick tool to give him a +2 masterwork bonus specifically to create lava stones (ie, he wouldn't need a complete alchemy kit, but making some tools specifically to make this item? Plausible...), and then he alchemies them up.

Lhurgyof
2010-09-12, 10:54 PM
This is fantasy guys! Everyone knows that lava isn't more dangerous than boiling beeswax!

I'm pretty sure that there's even rules for taking damage within close proximity to lava.

Doomboy911
2010-09-12, 10:55 PM
The artifact is in the center so walking around is out, it's on a small pedestal and once it's removed it will cause the lava to rise so they have to leave quickly. The artifact is made of gold weighing twenty pounds.

kjones
2010-09-12, 10:57 PM
I believe that D&D follows these rules (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ConvectionSchmonvection).

Gavinfoxx
2010-09-12, 10:57 PM
SRD:

"Extreme heat (air temperature over 140° F, fire, boiling water, lava) deals lethal damage. Breathing air in these temperatures deals 1d6 points of damage per minute (no save). In addition, a character must make a Fortitude save every 5 minutes (DC 15, +1 per previous check) or take 1d4 points of nonlethal damage. Those wearing heavy clothing or any sort of armor take a -4 penalty on their saves. In addition, those wearing metal armor or coming into contact with very hot metal are affected as if by a heat metal spell. "

"Lava Effects

Lava or magma deals 2d6 points of damage per round of exposure, except in the case of total immersion (such as when a character falls into the crater of an active volcano), which deals 20d6 points of damage per round.

Damage from magma continues for 1d3 rounds after exposure ceases, but this additional damage is only half of that dealt during actual contact (that is, 1d6 or 10d6 points per round).

An immunity or resistance to fire serves as an immunity to lava or magma. However, a creature immune to fire might still drown if completely immersed in lava. "


Also, the artificer can craft heatsuits of various sorts, there are some here and there...

EDIT: Just saw the thing that described the artefact. Here ya go:

Ah okay. Artificer crafts a scroll of Alter Self. Everyone but Artificer gets to a safe distance. Artificer Alter Selfs into an Avariel. Artificer flies to artefact, retrieves it, flies to party. Party celebrates.

HunterOfJello
2010-09-12, 10:59 PM
Artificer can use a scroll of that one arcane spell that builds a bridge. I forget what it's called

*edit*

The spell is called Dark Way and can be found in the Spell Compendium. It wouldn't go very far or last very long though.

Fax Celestis
2010-09-12, 11:04 PM
Gah... what I hate about that, is the foot is still 'inches' from the lava. Anyone using those stones should be incinerated in seconds even if they were feet away. Do they have any heat dampening properties?

3d6 fire damage/round. Drink a potion of fire resistance.

Gavinfoxx
2010-09-12, 11:04 PM
Artificer can use a scroll of that one arcane spell that builds a bridge. I forget what it's called

*edit*

The spell is called Dark Way and can be found in the Spell Compendium. It wouldn't go very far or last very long though.

Use my suggestion! What is the race of the artificer, OP?

avr
2010-09-12, 11:05 PM
Depends a bit on what the lava's like and how much of it there is. If it's movie lava or a narrow strip, you just need to fly. If it gives off unbreathable gases and roasts anyone who gets close, you'll need fire resistance and an air supply or filter.

If it's safe to approach you might be able to cross using stilts - even molten stone is very stiff.

Bob the Urgh
2010-09-12, 11:08 PM
Darkway. It's a second level spell in Spell Compendium but I don't think it will reach.

edit: nevermind.

Lhurgyof
2010-09-12, 11:11 PM
Get Gas Masks from savage species, get some fire resistance, and get the lava stones... That's all I can think of. Hope to hell there's no magma elementals/golems.

Gavinfoxx
2010-09-12, 11:18 PM
Just checked, Winged Watcher does not last long enough at all...

Okay, get the Artificer to make some heat resistant clothes, a mask for the gasses, and for Fharlanghn's sake, make sure the heat resistant clothes don't have metal in them, and have Wing holes in them.

The artificer then makes a scroll of Alter Self. The artificer changes into an Avariel, quickly puts on the clothes with the help of the party, and the party starts running to high ground. The artificer flies to the artefact, picks it up, and flies to the party.

Malakar
2010-09-12, 11:41 PM
FYI, all you need is a potion of fire resistance.

"An immunity or resistance to fire serves as an immunity to lava or magma." Note that it doesn't say "serves as an immunity or resistance" only as immunity.

So, Alter Self into something with Fire Resist, or drink a potion of Fire resist.

Trudge across the lava, grab the artifact, and be sure to keep a second potion handy for it taking a long time to get out. No need for lava stones at all.

mobdrazhar
2010-09-12, 11:42 PM
FYI, all you need is a potion of fire resistance.

"An immunity or resistance to fire serves as an immunity to lava or magma." Note that it doesn't say "serves as an immunity or resistance" only as immunity.

So, Alter Self into something with Fire Resist, or drink a potion of Fire resist.

Trudge across the lava, grab the artifact, and be sure to keep a second potion handy for it taking a long time to get out. No need for lava stones at all.

There is still the problem of drowning in the lava... would a potion of water breathing work for that?

Chrono22
2010-09-12, 11:46 PM
I'd have feather fall cast on the lightest member of the party.
One trebuchet launch later...

sentaku
2010-09-12, 11:46 PM
1. Attach one end of long heat resistant rope near exit.
2. Walk around the lake and so that rope passes over artifact, and tie it as high as possible so that it' still passing close the artifact.
3. Use zip line and grab* artifact on the way down.

* grabbing the artifact might result in loss of zip line over lava precede with care.

Gavinfoxx
2010-09-12, 11:51 PM
To me, this is obviously meant to be solved with Flight. Does anyone think this *can't* be solved with Flight for any particular reason?

mobdrazhar
2010-09-12, 11:51 PM
I'd have feather fall cast on the lightest member of the party.
One trebuchet launch later...

they float slowly down into the lava from the overshot

Skorj
2010-09-12, 11:57 PM
Note that the density of lava is around 2.5, so you wouldn't have any chance of sinking or drowning, but it would be a real mess to trudge through - you'd sink to where 40% of your body is immersed. Those lava stones would probably help a lot in getting across, with the fire resist meaning the balance checks aren't really that important.

avr
2010-09-13, 12:03 AM
Density isn't what'd keep you out of the lava if you stepped on it. Stiffness is. Rock isn't happy about bending even if it's molten ...

JeminiZero
2010-09-13, 12:05 AM
1) Buy/Make Potion of Resist Energy: Fire
2) Buy/Make Potion of Alter Self
3) Feed both to Warforged, have him transform into any fast flying construct that can carry 20 lb.
4) The Warforged can fly over lake without concern of suffocation (since he doesn't need to breath), or heat damage (since he has fire resist).
5) Both potions last 10 minutes/level, or 30 minutes at the mininum level needed to make them. Hopefully enough time for the Warforged to go in, grab the artifact, and come back. If it isn't, make more than 1 set of potions.

Forged Fury
2010-09-13, 12:11 AM
Exactly how far is it from where you are to where the artifact is located? That would be very important.

The easiest way to solve this is to have the artificer UMD a Summon Monster I scroll and bring a fiendish hawk into being. Caster level of the scroll would be dependent on how far away the artifact is from your location. The fiendish hawk has a strength of 6, which means light load caps at 20 lbs.

You have to be able to communicate with it, which could be problematic depending on how the rules are interpreted. Gaining the Fiendish template makes the hawk a Magical Beast and gives it an Intelligence score of at least 3. Unfortunately, that would make Speak With Animals cast by the druid useless. As a DM, I think I'd rule that a creature with the Fiendish template could understand, if not speak, either Common, Infernal, or Abyssal.

The SRD kindly points out that any creature with an intelligence of at least 3 can understand at least one language. In the absence of a listing, Common is the default.

So, it ultimately depends on how far away the artifact is from your present location. Fiendish hawks have a fly speed of 60'.

jmbrown
2010-09-13, 12:29 AM
DMG II gives advanced rules for lava and you have to contend with the heat of simply approaching it, the heat of flying over it, and the poisonous gas it emits. Granting fire resistance is an option but I don't expect level 2 characters to spend 1/3 of their likely wealth on a one-use item just to advance the story.

mootoall
2010-09-13, 12:44 AM
Well, considering a 20 lb. hunk-o-gold with magical properties is probably going to net them a rather big reward ... I'd say it's worth it.

chiasaur11
2010-09-13, 12:59 AM
Grapple hooks.

If Legend of Zelda taught me anything, it's that grapple hooks solve most lava based jumping puzzles.

Chrono22
2010-09-13, 01:10 AM
they float slowly down into the lava from the overshot

It's a win-win situation, either way.

Shyftir
2010-09-13, 01:56 AM
Um it's an environmental effect right? Wouldn't a simple endure elements go along way to improve your ability to deal with the situation?

And wouldn't a golden artifact that close to lava be in danger of melting from the ambient heat?

Final Fantasy solution: Go run around in the forest 'til you level up from random encounters then use wildshape.

Nihb
2010-09-13, 06:05 AM
Endure Elements is limited to "normal" environments, such as deserts and tundra.

A scroll of Summon Monster wouldn't work as the summon only remains for a round. Being 2nd level characters, I doubt they could summon a creature themselves.

Obviously, you can't hire a spellcaster high enough. Mage Hand is too short. I like the trebuchet idea, but how would you come back?

If there are high ledges, I'd try to put a rope from up there. But there ware probably no ledge.

Heliomance
2010-09-13, 06:17 AM
Wouldn't make obsidian anyway. Cooled lava makes igneous stone. Obsidian requires other circumstances that just pouring water on it wouldn't likely create.

DWARF FORTRESS LIED TO ME?

RebelRogue
2010-09-13, 06:22 AM
Um it's an environmental effect right? Wouldn't a simple endure elements go along way to improve your ability to deal with the situation?


Endure elements doesn’t provide any protection from fire or cold damage, nor does it protect against other environmental hazards such as smoke, lack of air, and so forth.
So it has little to no effect here, unfortunately.

Myth
2010-09-13, 06:39 AM
Go away and level up. Take 10 levels in Elemental Savant: Fire. Fire immunity and no need to breathe, at the cost of two caster levels :smallbiggrin:

I just love suggesting this PrC.

On a serious note: How close is the Druid to leveling? At lvl 3 he can cast Summon Nature’s Ally II, which will let him summon a Small Fire Elemental. Problem solved provided 18 seconds of duration are enough - 50ft. speed is pretty decent.

Jack_Simth
2010-09-13, 06:51 AM
On a serious note: How close is the Druid to leveling? At lvl 3 he can cast Summon Nature’s Ally II, which will let him summon a Small Fire Elemental. Problem solved provided 18 seconds of duration are enough - 50ft. speed is pretty decent.Could also convince the party Artificer to make a Scroll of Summon Nature's Ally II at... what, caster level 4? ... at present. Or, you know, there's a shop like, right there, and such a scroll would run... what, 200 gp?

Forged Fury
2010-09-13, 06:57 AM
A scroll of Summon Monster wouldn't work as the summon only remains for a round. Being 2nd level characters, I doubt they could summon a creature themselves.
The required duration entirely depends on how large this lake is. Duration of the spell will depend on the caster level of the scroll they purchase (1 rd/level). Better yet, if the artifier can reasonably hit the UMD checks for a 2nd level spell, make it a scroll of Extended Summon Monster I, which would last for 6 rounds (CL3 required). The artificer can already emulate Summon Monster I using the Spell-Storing Item infusion at 2nd caster level with fairly reliable success. Again, it all depends on how big this lake is.

I like the trebuchet idea, but how would you come back?
Given the resources of a 2nd level party, how would they acquire a trebuchet and move it into the area?

Morph Bark
2010-09-13, 07:38 AM
I once had my two-player party encounter a lava river. The solution was to pull a lever, which triggered a concentrated micro-earthquake, which caused the cavern wall to split open all the way to the lake it was situated beneath. Cue giant torrent of water and the players needing to make Swim checks for dear life.

Perhaps try what Hercules did, and work to redirect a river into the cave?

Lhurgyof
2010-09-13, 07:44 AM
To me, this is obviously meant to be solved with Flight. Does anyone think this *can't* be solved with Flight for any particular reason?

Updrafts, toxic gas, and super intense heat?
This isn't like in star wars, where character don't spontaneously catch fire because they're ignoring physics until they get their limbs chopped off. :smallsigh:

FMArthur
2010-09-13, 11:54 AM
1) Buy/Make Potion of Resist Energy: Fire
2) Buy/Make Potion of Alter Self
3) Feed both to Warforged, have him transform into any fast flying construct that can carry 20 lb.
4) The Warforged can fly over lake without concern of suffocation (since he doesn't need to breath), or heat damage (since he has fire resist).
5) Both potions last 10 minutes/level, or 30 minutes at the mininum level needed to make them. Hopefully enough time for the Warforged to go in, grab the artifact, and come back. If it isn't, make more than 1 set of potions.

What constructs could you transform into for this?

Fax Celestis
2010-09-13, 11:55 AM
What constructs could you transform into for this?

Expeditious Messenger homunculus, for starters.

shadow_archmagi
2010-09-13, 11:57 AM
FYI, all you need is a potion

why waste time with a potion when the artificer can just hit someone's armor with an infusion?

wormwood
2010-09-13, 12:41 PM
If the shiny is within 30' of the side of the lava you are on, Mage Hand. You'll take damage from getting that close if you aren't protected, but that'd let you grab it.

Ormagoden
2010-09-13, 12:55 PM
I have spoken! (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#decanterofEndlessWater)
That is all...

Tyndmyr
2010-09-13, 12:59 PM
If the shiny is within 30' of the side of the lava you are on, Mage Hand. You'll take damage from getting that close if you aren't protected, but that'd let you grab it.

Too heavy. So, er, greater mage hand. A level 1 spell should still be adequate.

If it's too heavy for that, we have Tenser's floating disk. That reduces the need for mage hand to "shove it on".

Forged Fury
2010-09-13, 01:14 PM
Too heavy. So, er, greater mage hand. A level 1 spell should still be adequate.

If it's too heavy for that, we have Tenser's floating disk. That reduces the need for mage hand to "shove it on".

Greater Mage Hand should be able to pick it up. Weight limit is 40lbs, IIRC and I believe the OP said it weighed around 20lbs. Range is medium, so as long as it is within 110 feet and the caster isn't suffering any environmental damage or other things that could cause loss of concentration, should be good to go.

SirLagsalot
2010-09-13, 02:24 PM
Artificer to the rescue!

Make scroll of tenser's floating disk
Artificer casts Lesser Armor Enhancement (Fire Resistance 10) on warforged
Float over lava riding disk
Grab artifact
Float back over lava riding disk

Telonius
2010-09-13, 02:34 PM
Three options, as far as I can see it.

1. Attempt to ford.
2. Caulk the wagon and float it across.
3. Hire an Indian.

I'll go with option #3. A passing Warlock with Fell Flight offers to ferry the party across one by one, for a price.

Forged Fury
2010-09-13, 02:53 PM
Artificer to the rescue!

Make scroll of tenser's floating disk
Artificer casts Lesser Armor Enhancement (Fire Resistance 10) on warforged
Float over lava riding disk
Grab artifact
Float back over lava riding disk

Problems:
1) Weight, depending on what kind of body feats the warforged has. The CL2 scroll of Floating Disk the artificer could craft would only hold 200 pounds. You could buy a more expensive scroll at a higher CL that would hold more, but...

2) The spell indicates the disk winks out of existence if it exceeds the spell's range. The spell's range is short (25' + 5'/2 levels). That would be an unhappy experience.

With that said, by RAW, it seems you could simply infuse Lesser Armor Enhancement (Fire Resistance 10) on the warforged and they could walk along the bottom of the lake. Does this protect equipment as well? The armor ability says it is similar to Resist Energy which does say it protects equipment.

It seems there may have been an oversight in the text stating "immunity or resistance to fire serves as an immunity to lava or magma". Seems like they forgot the words "or resistance" between the second "immunity" and "lava". Seems just a bit too powerful to me... It's also interesting to note that the same protection isn't extended to someone dunked in acid, at least according to the SRD.

The Glyphstone
2010-09-13, 03:53 PM
There are official 3rd-party rules for Lava, Magma, and such substances in the renounced renowned supplement Fire and Brimstone (http://www.yourgamesnow.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1938)...

Tyndmyr
2010-09-13, 04:04 PM
Official 3rd party?

Seems like an odd way to phrase something.

Gavinfoxx
2010-09-13, 04:08 PM
Official 3rd party?

Seems like an odd way to phrase something.

Yea, that includes the books that were licensed by WotC, or went through one of their subsidiaries. There were a few books like that for D&D 3.5e...

hamishspence
2010-09-13, 04:28 PM
I think Dragonlance and Kingdoms of Kalamar were the two main examples. Maybe Ravenloft- weren't they done by Mongoose Publishing?

dgnslyr
2010-09-13, 11:46 PM
DWARF FORTRESS LIED TO ME?

EEZ NOT POSSIBLE!

Quellian-dyrae
2010-09-14, 12:30 AM
You mentioned a nearby town as an option so assuming time isn't hugely pressing, the druid can release its animal companion, use a 24-hour ceremony to call a bird animal companion, then release it and call one of its previous type back. You might still need the fire protection and all, but that would get you the flight with as much duration as you need.

Zaeron
2010-09-14, 01:10 AM
Clearing up a couple misconceptions about lava.

Lava is EXTREMELY dense (it's molten stone). You would not have to deal with the 'problem of sinking into the lava' unless your PC weighs an awful lot.

Second, it's actually possible (wearing shoes) to run across a lava flow safely. Your shoes will melt, but lava doesn't instantly murder anyone even NEAR it. (watch a documentary - notice how close some of the manned cameras get to lava flows - literally inches away at times - if lava had some kind of magical aura that did 3d6 of fire damage a round, that camera would instantly melt.)

This is just to debunk the people leveling realism arguments against stuff - real world lava is actually far less dangerous in the short term than DnD lava.

Thajocoth
2010-09-14, 01:26 AM
Why are you thinking of a solution? You're the DM. That's the party's job. They think of a solution. You ignore most of what's wrong with it, allowing their idea to turn this major problem into something possible, even if still dangerous.

Player3
2010-09-14, 02:29 AM
Zaeron, the guys that deal with lava wear special suits, and those boots only last for a few seconds on contact with lava. The cameras are also designed to withstand the temperatures for short durations.

I don't know where 3d6 came from. Contact was 2d6, only twice as dangerous as non-magical fire. Being near lava in a closed environment would be an environmental hazard from the heat and gasses, but being directly above would probably cause 1d6 fire damage a round as if in non-magical fire.

ryzouken
2010-09-14, 03:40 AM
Step 1: Have one party member agree to die for the cause.
Step 2: said party member invokes Pazuzu thrice, causing the great beast to appear
Step 3: Said party member creates a pact with Pazuzu: their immortal soul for the retrieval and delivery of one golden dingus
Step 4: ???
Step 5: Profit, and find a new party member. I recommend a Kobold Wizard.

Doomboy911
2010-09-14, 07:16 AM
Why are you thinking of a solution? You're the DM. That's the party's job. They think of a solution. You ignore most of what's wrong with it, allowing their idea to turn this major problem into something possible, even if still dangerous.

I'm coming up with a solution to make sure I haven't doomed my players from reaching what they need.

onthetown
2010-09-14, 07:23 AM
Endure Elements and Lava Stones sounds about right. Just being near lava can melt the face off of people, so you really really really want a few scrolls or an item that can cast Endure Elements.

From D&D standards, though, it's probably fine. The Lava Stones seem like a great idea for whoever is the most acrobatic -- I'm guessing the rogue. So they just need access to the stones, which the shop may hold because I would imagine a shop near a lake of lava would have those sorts of items.

Edit: Looking at the post about realistic lava, maybe the shop holds a pair of boots that give you the ability to run across the lake without them melting.

Selrahc
2010-09-14, 09:33 AM
So I might be missing something here.. but why not just lasso it and drag it across? Get as high above the artifact as you can, get a chain with a hook on it or some such and just drag it away. It seems like the obvious solution.

Forged Fury
2010-09-14, 10:14 AM
I'm coming up with a solution to make sure I haven't doomed my players from reaching what they need.

The solution to this problem is almost entirely dependent on how far away the artifact is from the players. Generally speaking, the further away it is, the more resources are going to be needed (in CL-appropriate spells, gold, or whatever).

Is the distance from the PCs to the artifact 30'? 60'? 100'? 300'? It really is important to determine and I don't remember it being mentioned in a previous post.

Duke of URL
2010-09-14, 10:19 AM
Scroll of telekensis will do the trick quite nicely. Long range is a bonus. The artificer will have to UMD it, so it's not a total slam-dunk.

Making a lesser telekensis spell that has lower weight limits (say, 5 lbs/level as opposed to 25 lbs/level) could drop this down to a 3rd or 4th level spell, making it wand-capable.

Cogidubnus
2010-09-14, 12:30 PM
Find a lake. Throw (several) dusts of water into it. You get 100 gallons of water in a pebble for every 850gp you can spend. Though I forget if a level 2 character would have any chance of affording that...

Urpriest
2010-09-14, 07:14 PM
As the DM, you get to decide whether to use the optional rules for lava in DMG II or the less "realistic" ones in the DMG. Which ones are you using?

Doomboy911
2010-09-14, 09:50 PM
I'm ignoring the poisonous gas as they have to go to the volcano and killing them off with that wouldn't be fair. They can approach the lava but not touch it.

Jack_Simth
2010-09-14, 09:57 PM
I'm ignoring the poisonous gas as they have to go to the volcano and killing them off with that wouldn't be fair. They can approach the lava but not touch it.
So anyone flying would be safe, the grappling hook on a rope from a long distance and a nice height would work, and so on?

Well, they've got some solutions, then.

Gavinfoxx
2010-09-14, 10:25 PM
Is it Pahoehoe lava or A'a lava? This matters! Remember, with the right equipment, some types of lava flows CAN be walked across... IN REAL LIFE. The stuff is thick!

Knaight
2010-09-14, 10:44 PM
Mundane solution time.
1) Get four ropes, and tie them together so that a loop that can be tightened is in the center. Lower this carefully over the object. Tighten. Move sideways and out.

2) Get shovels. Reroute a river into the flow. This is much, much easier to do with magic.

3) Assuming the golden thing is shaped right, a long pole with a hook. The entire party holds on one end and up the side, so leverage isn't too huge an issue.

Magical solution time.
1) 1 rope with another coiled around the center. Animate the center coil so it ties the artifact up, then move sideways and out.

Ranzear
2010-09-14, 10:50 PM
Dragging the artifact through the lava would melt it. It can be presumed that the pedestal it's on protects it from the ambient heat (a wizard did it).

The zipline idea got passed over a bit too readily, but it gave me a better idea:

I'm sure theres an application of rope trick that would allow one end to be held, the other end (keeping it taut) walked around to the other side of the lake, and a specially looped knot that would close on the artifact when both ends are pulled. Could even perform two rope tricks to drop a 20lb weight onto the pedestal at the same time it picks up the artifact to prevent the lava rising.

Isn't this some ancient egyptian puzzle solved in much the same 'walk around the lake/slippery bowl/bottomless pit with a stretched rope' way?

Edit: Ninja'd, though I provided the requisite skill and noted that the lava will rise with the artifact still dangling over it.

OracleofWuffing
2010-09-14, 10:51 PM
How wide across is the lava and how tall are the PC's?

There's probably a foolproof way to cross the laval without buying anything. It won't backfire at all, either. (http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/5790/planb.png)

Forged Fury
2010-09-14, 11:29 PM
<Sigh>

Multiple people have requested multiple times for the dimensions of this lake of lava. I'm not sure why we can't get an answer to this question. I'm giving up for now. We could be dealing with a Walden Pond or Lake Michigan. Without knowing the dimensions of the lake, none of our answers work.

Malakar
2010-09-14, 11:41 PM
<Sigh>

Multiple people have requested multiple times for the dimensions of this lake of lava. I'm not sure why we can't get an answer to this question. I'm giving up for now. We could be dealing with a Walden Pond or Lake Michigan. Without knowing the dimensions of the lake, none of our answers work.

Not true. Becoming an Elemental Savant (Fire) always works.

Also, go find a Fire elf commoner or whatever. Same thing.

Forged Fury
2010-09-14, 11:49 PM
Not true. Becoming an Elemental Savant (Fire) always works.

Also, go find a Fire elf commoner or whatever. Same thing.

Correction: None of our answers working within the 2nd level party paradigm that don't involve possibly non-existent races work without knowing how big this lake is...

ryzouken
2010-09-15, 12:01 AM
Correction: my answer functions fine within the given parameters AFAIK. Pazuzu responds to his name being invoked thrice (hazy on this point), and the retrieval of an object within sight isn't beyond his immense powers. That one of the party members must pay an impossible price? Just good RP fodder... at least, until he dies anyway.

I imagine that the rest of the party could spring for a decent burial of the newly created corpse... is that in excess of the WBL for 2nd level characters?

Forged Fury
2010-09-15, 12:08 AM
Pazuzu responds to his name being invoked thrice (hazy on this point), and the retrieval of an object within sight isn't beyond his immense powers.

Unfortunately, we're still not entirely sure the object is in sight as we've been provided with no information indicating as such, so it could possibly be beyond Pazuzu's great powers. Burying the dead party member regardless of Pazuzu's success would presumably be within the WBL of a 2nd level party.

Xan_Kriegor
2010-09-15, 12:24 AM
The easiest way to solve this is to have the artificer UMD a Summon Monster I scroll and bring a fiendish hawk into being. [...]

I take your fiendish hawk and I raise you an eagle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/eagle.htm). It has 10 STR instead of 6 and a fly speed of 80' instead of 60'. It can also be summoned using Summon Nature's Ally I (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/summonnaturesallyi.htm), which the druid can spontaneously cast (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/druid.htm) because it's a druid class feature.

Spell duration is still certainly a factor, but the 20' movespeed increase may help.

EDIT: In the Spell Compendium there's a spell Cloud Wings which may help. Range touch, lasts longer that necessary, and increases flying movespeed by 30'. The only snag is it's a Druid 2 spell, so the artificer needs to help for that one.

Cespenar
2010-09-15, 12:25 AM
Obviously, the correct answer is to Tough It Out.

Fhaolan
2010-09-15, 12:40 AM
Yeah, we need to know the basic dimensions of the lava bed, and whether it is possible to walk all the way around it.

I agree that a non-magical solution is perfectly possible in this situation, but it involves some engineering-style knowledge, and a fair bit of cash on hand to purchase supplies. It depends on how you rule D&D lava heat damage will affect cables, whether you are going to bother with calculating arcs for the artifact weight supported by the cables, or if you require the players to build support structures for the cables at either end of the lava bed. Basically, build what was suggested above (or a variant depending on the level of D&D/realism you're aiming for). A rig that will span the lava bed with cables and 'bind' the artifact up in the cables to move it.

DaragosKitsune
2010-09-15, 12:44 AM
Unfortunately, we're still not entirely sure the object is in sight as we've been provided with no information indicating as such, so it could possibly be beyond Pazuzu's great powers. Burying the dead party member regardless of Pazuzu's success would presumably be within the WBL of a 2nd level party.

Actually, for something so mundane Pazuzu, by his description, wouldn't require any kind of sacrifice, especially from a good aligned character (he's a corrupter and summoning him is an evil action). He might be ticked, and he might want something, but retrieving one item would not cost a soul.

Forged Fury
2010-09-15, 01:05 AM
I take your fiendish hawk and I raise you an eagle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/eagle.htm).
The fiendish hawk was originally suggested because of the presumably dangerously hot conditions surrounding a lava lake. The fiendish hawk would be mostly immune, the eagle not so much. Then again, the 1d6 damage is only parceled out once per minute, so the spell would disappear before then. But yeah, the flight speed would definitely improve matters.

My guess is that this is more like a smallish pond of lava and the artifact is within sight. if it is within 100', the Artificer using Spell Storing Item to cast Greater Mage Hand FTW.

Knaight
2010-09-15, 06:33 AM
Dragging the artifact through the lava would melt it. It can be presumed that the pedestal it's on protects it from the ambient heat (a wizard did it).

Edit: Ninja'd, though I provided the requisite skill and noted that the lava will rise with the artifact still dangling over it.

Hmm. The pedestal protects it? Can the pedestal be cut and dragged? That said, my solution for the lava rising with the artifact consists of running, so I'm reasonable sure you improved it quite a bit.

Project_Mayhem
2010-09-15, 07:44 AM
Three options, as far as I can see it.

1. Attempt to ford.
2. Caulk the wagon and float it across.
3. Hire an Indian.

I'll go with option #3. A passing Warlock with Fell Flight offers to ferry the party across one by one, for a price.

Unfortunately the Warforged catches dysentery.

Another_Poet
2010-09-15, 11:30 AM
1. Attach one end of long heat resistant rope near exit.
2. Walk around the lake and so that rope passes over artifact, and tie it as high as possible so that it' still passing close the artifact.
3. Use zip line and grab* artifact on the way down.

* grabbing the artifact might result in loss of zip line over lava precede with care.

Plus One. +1

Doomboy911
2010-09-15, 08:55 PM
I'm sorry I thought I mentioned the artifact is in the center without a area to walk around. You simply head down the path and see a massive room with 60' foot diameter with the artifact on the pedestal in the center. The pedestal doesn't protect the artifact as it won't melt (a wizard did do it) once the artifact is removed the lava will rise and they're forced to flee.

Knaight
2010-09-15, 08:59 PM
I'm sorry I thought I mentioned the artifact is in the center without a area to walk around. You simply head down the path and see a massive room with 60' foot diameter with the artifact on the pedestal in the center. The pedestal doesn't protect the artifact as it won't melt (a wizard did do it) once the artifact is removed the lava will rise and they're forced to flee.

That makes life a little more difficult. Two entrances, or just one?

JeminiZero
2010-09-15, 09:11 PM
You simply head down the path and see a massive room with 60' foot diameter with the artifact on the pedestal in the center.

So the Artifact is 30 ft away then? The Druid could try and cast Wood Wose (SpC 242). This summons a spirit of nature for 1 hour that at CL2, can be at maximum 30 ft from the Druid. The Wood Wose has 15 ft fly speed and can lift 20 lb, enough to carry the Artifact.

Gavinfoxx
2010-09-15, 09:15 PM
Oh its in a ROOM???

Well then. Artificer creates a scroll of Spider Climb as a level 1 spell (its on a few level 1 lists), and takes a rope, a hammer, some pitons that can be anchored in stone, spider climbs up the ceiling, anchors a rope ABOVE the artefact with the pitons, climbs down the rope, quickly grabs the artefact and puts it in his pack, climbs UP the rope, and climbs to whatever exit is available out of the rising lava (there IS an exit even when the lava fully rises, right?)

Doomboy911
2010-09-15, 09:27 PM
There is one exit and as the lava is rising you have a window of oppurtunity to escape.

Gavinfoxx
2010-09-15, 09:31 PM
Flight it is then...

Or just burrow out. That's a ton of level 1 spells for the artificer too. He might want to try burrowing ahead of time, make sure he has a good safe escape route planned.

Once you put into the player's heads that they can BURROW AROUND THE DUNGEON though... be careful at what you unleash...

Fax Celestis
2010-09-15, 10:00 PM
Better idea.

Get a scroll of telekinetic sphere.

Hamsterball your way in, hamsterball your way out.

Doomboy911
2010-09-16, 02:22 PM
Telekinetic sphere has a 1 foot diameter to take a small person across. Once you get them across they grab the artifact and cast the spell again but the range is twenty five feet.

Fax Celestis
2010-09-16, 02:24 PM
Telekinetic sphere has a 1 foot diameter to take a small person across. Once you get them across they grab the artifact and cast the spell again but the range is twenty five feet.

1 foot/level, not 1 foot. Get a CL 10 scroll.

Forged Fury
2010-09-16, 02:48 PM
I'm sorry I thought I mentioned the artifact is in the center without a area to walk around. You simply head down the path and see a massive room with 60' foot diameter with the artifact on the pedestal in the center. The pedestal doesn't protect the artifact as it won't melt (a wizard did do it) once the artifact is removed the lava will rise and they're forced to flee.

60' diameter? So 30-40' from the party?

Easy. Artificer FTW (as usual). Whip up a Spell Storing Item of Summon Monster I at CL2 to get a fiendish hawk that can fly to the artifact, pick it up, and fly back in two rounds (it has a 60' fly speed and should largely be immune to the heat due to its Fire Resistance 5). Alternately, a CL1 Greater Mage Hand that should easily handle the issue, although there may be issues with line of effect, concentration, how fast the lava rises, and whether you allow Spell Compendium.

Cespenar
2010-09-16, 03:22 PM
Buy six 10 foot ladders. Nail them together to get one big 60 foot mega-ladder. The lightest person will be on the tip. The rest of the group will hold the ladder horizontally, then charge down the path. The tip of the ladder will reach the artifact, the guy on the tip grabs it, then the group charges back.

Gavinfoxx
2010-09-16, 04:15 PM
Buy six 10 foot ladders. Nail them together to get one big 60 foot mega-ladder. The lightest person will be on the tip. The rest of the group will hold the ladder horizontally, then charge down the path. The tip of the ladder will reach the artifact, the guy on the tip grabs it, then the group charges back.

They'd have to be made of something that has a higher melting temperature than rock...

onthetown
2010-09-16, 04:34 PM
If you're in Pathfinder and they have a Wizard or Sorcerer, they could use the Elemental Body spell. I don't recall seeing it in D&D.

mikau013
2010-09-16, 07:00 PM
I'd say let the artificer use personal weapon augmentation to give his weapon the flying property, because that is a +1 property and let it fly you across. But sadly it is slightly too expensive

Knaight
2010-09-16, 07:34 PM
1 foot/level, not 1 foot. Get a CL 10 scroll.

Sounds like enough to fire just about straight down, at a slight offset. Then its just a matter of lower rope though hole, animate rope, pull rope up, run.

Christopher K.
2010-09-16, 08:18 PM
Buy a space car and drive it up to the artifact. [/ridiculous]

So far I'm thinking it DOES come down to the Artificer.

Doomboy911
2010-09-16, 09:19 PM
Buy a space car and drive it up to the artifact. [/ridiculous]

So far I'm thinking it DOES come down to the Artificer.

Couldn't the warforged just run across the lava and take less damage than the humans and than run back?

Malakar
2010-09-16, 09:23 PM
We've already established that the Artificer has an ability to just straight up make the Warforged Immune to Lava, and the Warforged can walk right across the top.

Yay, we win.

Use resistance to fire infusion, have Warforged run over and grab it while everyone else runs over to entrance, then Warforged runs back across. It only needs to last like a minute tops.

Forged Fury
2010-09-16, 09:32 PM
I think the concern was how dense the lava was compared to the mass of a warforged (which tend to be heavier, and likely more dense, than a human). If he had to "swim" in the lava, the artifact would likely be very damaged by its exposure. Then again, he should be able to throw that thing more than 30' from the island when he got over there.

Forged Fury
2010-09-16, 09:33 PM
Couldn't the warforged just run across the lava and take less damage than the humans and than run back?

Dunno, you're the DM. Can it?

Tyndmyr
2010-09-16, 09:35 PM
60' diameter? So 30-40' from the party?


Alternatively, if it's a mere 30' from the party, there's always jump checks. It's a mere DC 30. Take your strongest guy, and have him strip off his armor.

Expedition Retreat(level 1 spell) will give you a +12 to your check, and Jump(nother level 1 spell) will give you +10.

Plus, there's the possible ranks in jump, and/or a synergy bonus from tumble.

Easily doable in core, with nothing particularly special.

Doomboy911
2010-09-16, 10:10 PM
Well the strongest guy is the warforged he's a barbarian with the highest HP.

D Knight
2010-09-16, 10:57 PM
I'd say let the artificer use personal weapon augmentation to give his weapon the flying property, because that is a +1 property and let it fly you across. But sadly it is slightly too expensive

dude you do know that the flying quality is a armor and shield only. Right? zip line sounds good just change it to work. as followed shoot an arrow with a pulley tied to it. of course the rope is threaded through said pulley and animate it. tie a second rope on and animate it as. well now command the first to wheel the 2nd above the item. command 2nd to grab item but not lift it. have 1st start back to you. and finish now all you have to do is run from the lava.

Doomboy911
2010-09-17, 03:57 PM
I'm thinking since they've yet to actually come upon the room (they're near it) I may change the room so it has no lava and once they remove the artifact a small fire elemental will appear.

Gavinfoxx
2010-09-17, 04:09 PM
I'm thinking since they've yet to actually come upon the room (they're near it) I may change the room so it has no lava and once they remove the artifact a small fire elemental will appear.

Oh, don't be afraid to give them lava, just don't make the lava 'raise', and make SOME of the lava illusionary (ie a path to the artefact at a particular angle), and when they pick it up, a fire elemental appears. And make it the darker lava, that they COULD just run across! And give the room more features on the walls and stuff. The idea is to freak them out, and create an obstacle to overcome, not an insurmountable barrier!

MarkusWolfe
2010-09-17, 07:47 PM
I suggest finding a river, and redirecting it to the lava lake. It should cool the sucker right down, though you may want to what a few hours for the rocks to cool off.

firemagehao
2010-09-18, 04:33 PM
You could get scrolls or potions of fly and resist energy(fire), costing 525gp(scroll), or 1050gp(potion). Both a very good deal for an artifact.

Siosilvar
2010-09-18, 05:11 PM
I take your fiendish hawk and I raise you an eagle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/eagle.htm). It has 10 STR instead of 6 and a fly speed of 80' instead of 60'. It can also be summoned using Summon Nature's Ally I (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/summonnaturesallyi.htm), which the druid can spontaneously cast (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/druid.htm) because it's a druid class feature.

Spell duration is still certainly a factor, but the 20' movespeed increase may help.

EDIT: In the Spell Compendium there's a spell Cloud Wings which may help. Range touch, lasts longer that necessary, and increases flying movespeed by 30'. The only snag is it's a Druid 2 spell, so the artificer needs to help for that one.


I'm sorry I thought I mentioned the artifact is in the center without a area to walk around. You simply head down the path and see a massive room with 60' foot diameter with the artifact on the pedestal in the center. The pedestal doesn't protect the artifact as it won't melt (a wizard did do it) once the artifact is removed the lava will rise and they're forced to flee.

30 feet to the artifact? 2 rounds of an eagle will indeed work. Eagle flies 30 feet, picks up artifact, flies back next round and gives artifact to the party, then *poofs* away.

Forged Fury
2010-09-18, 05:17 PM
30 feet to the artifact? 2 rounds of an eagle will indeed work. Eagle flies 30 feet, picks up artifact, flies back next round and gives artifact to the party, then *poofs* away.
Just make sure you have some way to communicate with it, otherwise it only attacks, per the spell. For that reason, I think a CL2 Summon Monster I fiendish hawk would be better since it, by RAW, at least understands Common and can still carry 20 pounds in flight.

Dilvish
2010-09-19, 02:19 PM
I'm wondering what the Gilligan's Island or MacGyver solution would be. This is basically an engineering problem. Magic isn't even necessary, if the party doesn't have the access to the proper magics.

Build something like a teeter-totter, with the warforged as the counterbalance (or the whole rest of the party). Similar to that would be a derrick with a bridge or crane that reaches to the island.