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Edelweiss
2010-09-13, 02:10 PM
A friend of mine has just informed me of a campaign idea he had, it's still in the planning stages but he wants to run gestault characters. I have never played that way before so I thought I would ask you all what some of your favorite combos are. As far as I know anything goes book wise, if not then I shall revise when I find out. Thanks!

Boci
2010-09-13, 02:16 PM
Obviously anything that mixes different aspects. For example, a fighter/swordsage has 3 good saves, full BAB and 6 skill points per level. However, even more poerful is to get a full caster and then add something to make it better, such as passive affect (vestiges/meldshaping) or the factotum ability of extra standard actions and ignoring spell resistance.

The-Mage-King
2010-09-13, 02:16 PM
Psion//Swashbuckler

Druid//Cleric

Druid//Animal Companion Wizard/Incantrix

Warblade//Psion

Wizard//Spell-to-Power (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a) Erudite

Wizard//Erudite

Crusader//Cleric


The list goes on and on... For a stealth character, I'd say Rogue//Sneak Attack Fighter.

Or, for skill monkey, Changeling Rogue/Chameleon//Factocum. Shudder at the skill points.

FuryOfMetal
2010-09-13, 02:30 PM
Personally i really wanna play changeling Rogue/Chameleon//Factotum, but i'm quite fond of the skill monkey types.

I'm trying to find a good Barbarian gestalt combo, i'm thinking maybe Dragonfire Aspirant for great CON synergy and some fun added abilities. Any better ideas?

Snake-Aes
2010-09-13, 02:41 PM
Gestalt doesn't change much in terms of "what you should seek". There's still an overall theme to follow, and these may be added be aggravated:

1) Action economy. An incarnate won't be very flexible in-combat if your other side if a ToB class (swift actions are shagged)
2) Resource output. Having 2 caster classes is fun and all, but you're not likely to burn through all those spells without some serious action economy combo breaker.
3) Synergy. A psychic warrior psion will have an amazing pool and powers known, but relying on two caster stats(one of them which needs to be very high) will break you.

kestrel404
2010-09-13, 02:48 PM
Yeah, depends a lot on what you want to play. Usually your best bet is to choose a mental attribute and go with two classes that focus on that attribute. So choose from:

Intelligence:
Wizard, Duskblade, Swashbuckler, Warblade, Factotum, Beguiler, Psion, Erudite, Artificer, Archivist, etc.

Wisdom:
Cleric, Druid, Swordsage, Psychic Warrior, Monk, Ninja, etc.

Charisma:
Bard, Paladin, Sorceror, Wilder, Crusader, Warmage, Binder, Dread Necromancer, Hexblade, Favored Soul, Marshal, Spellthief, Warlock, etc.

Constitution works better than most physicals, so:
Dragon Shaman, Totemist, Incarnate, Soulborn, Dragonfire Adept, Barbarian, etc.

This way, you get synergy and usually compatible class features, and you can focus on a single attribute as the 'important stat'.

Some fun combos include:
Warblade/Factotum - Mister int-based utility beatstick. He can do anything and he does it with panache.

Binder/Warlock - This is the "I've got strange powers" build. Play up the mystery and oddness.

Swordsage/Psychic Warrior - You win at combat. Plenty of feats, plenty of cool moves, lots of options.

Dragonborn Dragonfire Adept/Dragon Shaman - Take dragon wings from Dragon magic and all of the breath weapon based feats from Draconomicon and name yourself Draco. Also, since you're getting breath weapons from three different sources, you can basically do a different kind each round, meaning you can apply metabreath feats to all of them and still use continuous breath weapons! Requires a bit of juggling but very fun!

Fax Celestis
2010-09-13, 02:50 PM
I like Hexblade//Spellthief/Fortune's Friend/Luckstealer, myself.

Person_Man
2010-09-13, 02:56 PM
Incarnate is my favorite for one side of any gestalt mix. Soulmelds provide large bonuses to a wide variety of Skills and checks, plus an excellent mix of defensive abilities and buffs. Because most of them are passive bonuses or buffs, you rarely have to spend an action to activate them. This is superior to something like a Cleric//Wizard, who ends up "wasting" most of their spells because they don't have enough actions to use them.

Snake-Aes
2010-09-13, 03:06 PM
Incarnate is my favorite for one side of any gestalt mix. Soulmelds provide large bonuses to a wide variety of Skills and checks, plus an excellent mix of defensive abilities and buffs. Because most of them are passive bonuses or buffs, you rarely have to spend an action to activate them. This is superior to something like a Cleric//Wizard, who ends up "wasting" most of their spells because they don't have enough actions to use them.

Incarnates are tailormade for gestalts. I currently play an Incarnate/Psychic Warrior gestalt in a pf campaign, and it's like all kinds of awesome added together and spiced with win. High str, high con, wis 16(for dem powrz), so the stat allocation is nearly unchanged. Ultimate shenanigans, though, would be Totemist//Tashalatora Psychic Warrior. Then you'd get flurry, totemist natural weapons, claws of the beast and form of doom and like PEWPEWPEWPEW.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-09-13, 05:25 PM
My favorite is doing ranger (any variation will do)//Wizard.

It has a great chassis (full BAB, all good saves, great skillpoints, good HD, and decent class features, which cna be awesome if you take the tright ACF/variant, for example a Wildshape ranger//wiz will be awesome if you either take surrogate spellscasting or natural spell)


Stat Priority
Int->Con->Str/Dex->Wis-Cha

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-09-13, 06:03 PM
My two cents on the topic of Gestalting:

Your problem with Gestalting is that you don't have any extra actions, but you've generally got a lot more stuff you can do. This doesn't increase your power as much as possible, unless you take this into consideration

Therefore, there's four things I tend to do:

1) One passive class, which gives benefits which I don't need to blow actions to perform. An example would be a monk-dip. It nets me all three good saves, Wis to AC, and Evasion. I don't need to activate anything to use these traits, they simply come as part of the package. Tacked onto a more 'active' class, like Wizard or Cleric, simply gives you a passive boost in power.

2) Find something that breaks the action economy. If you get more actions, the problem goes away. Factorum is generally the most widely used method of doing this, although White Raven Tactics can also be abused in a similar fashion.

3) Make sure one side is a caster. Because it's hard to be teh ubarz without being able to tell the laws of physics to sit down and shut up.

4) You may only have one PrC at a time, thus you need to make sure that one of the base classes is good enough to use without needing to PrC out of.

To this end, we look at the following examples:

1) Bardarian. Bard/Barbarian. Bard-side will be focusing on Inspire Courage and maybe DFI. As a PrC, grab War Chanter, so you can do both, and boosting the party's BAB. Barbarian side uses ACF for Pounce, and otherwise treat like your typical barbarian charger build.

2) Kung Fu Panda. Druid//Monk. You're a bear. That does Kung Fu. And can still cast spells when not tying up in melee combat. Monk side is, obviously, where you are going to be classing out of, so Tashalora PsiWar is a clear and potent choice to add in more options. Replace Monk with Swordsage for more power.

3) Wildshape Ranger/MoMF//Cloistered Cleric. You've got all the wildshape abilities of a Druid, plus the cleric spell list, and full BAB to go with it.

4) Factorum//Wizard. This is simply 'I win'. You can Incantatrix up all you want on the Wiz side, and have a whole PILE of actions to nove with from Factorum.

5) Artificer//Warblade. Win. Then win harder. Then win more and harder. Artificer can be either passive or active, depending on how you want to do Infusions.

6) True Paladin: Crusader//Cloistered Cleric. You loose nothing by going Cloistered, thanks to Crusader's full BAB. Insane Will saves. D12 HD. Travel and Knowledge devotion are your friends.

Shade Kerrin
2010-09-13, 07:35 PM
I've only played one Gestalt game, but speaking from experience, an Elan Psion/Wizard makes for a deadly combo.
Loosely speaking, each part of the equation is able to cover for the weaknesses of the other parts.

HunterOfJello
2010-09-13, 08:58 PM
Wizard
Psion/Erudite (I regard these as the same for this post)
Warblade
Archivist
Artificer
Factotum
Duskblade


Pick 2

~

Druid
Cleric
Swordsage
Cloistered Cleric
Crusader


Pick 2

~~~~~~

Personal favorites from these formulas include:

Wizard//Factotum - Super Arcane Casting, Great at everything else too
Archivist//Factotum - Super Divine Casting, Great at everything else too
Erudite//Factotum - Super Psionic, Great at everything else too

Note: Factotums gain the ability to spend Inspiration points to both A. gain extra standard actions allowing double casting in a single round and B. Ignore spell resistance. (Yes, that's right. Mr Spellcaster can cast his 2 best super damage spells on the boss while ignoring it's spell resistance with just class features)

Wizard//Archivist (Mr. I-Can-Cast-Every-Spell-In-The-Freaking-Game)
Archivist//Erudite (ditto)
Wizard//Erudite (ditto #2)

Warblade//Artificer - Ultimate self buffing whirlwind of metal and death

~

Crusader//Cloistered Cleric - Not only is this character insanely hard to kill, he makes all of his friends insanely hard to kill too.

Cloistered Cleric//Swordsage - Holy Ninja!

Druid//Swordsage - Holy Nature Ninja! Who has a scary pet! And just turned into a bear!

John Cribati
2010-09-13, 09:00 PM
Monk//Cleric. If you're willing to run around without armor, you can go about punching people with Harm spells and such.

Awnetu
2010-09-13, 09:02 PM
Two combos to watch out for


Bard//Warblade with Song of the White Raven

Rogue//Swashbuckler with daring outlaw.

While neither build is all that awesome outside of combat, those two feats effectively double your characters level for Inspire Courage and Sneak Attack respectively.

So that inspire courage is a level 40 inspire courage, and the sneak attack is a level 40 sneak attack at 20.

One of those is much better than the other in my opinion, and it's not the sneak attack one.


Factotum//Wizard is fun.

Amphetryon
2010-09-13, 09:07 PM
Hexblade 20//Paladin of Tyranny 2/Dread Necromancer 8/Dread Witch 5/Nightmare Spinner is kind of fun. :smallsmile:

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-09-14, 01:11 AM
Two combos to watch out for


Bard//Warblade with Song of the White Raven Not quite. You want Bard/Warblade with Song of the White Raven on one side... you've got an entire other side to play with now.


Rogue//Swashbuckler with daring outlaw. Same issue as above


While neither build is all that awesome outside of combat, those two feats effectively double your characters level for Inspire Courage and Sneak Attack respectively.

So that inspire courage is a level 40 inspire courage, and the sneak attack is a level 40 sneak attack at 20.

One of those is much better than the other in my opinion, and it's not the sneak attack one. IC does not advance beyond level 20, so that's completely pointless. A level 40 Sneak Attack is a pathetic 20d6. Even single-sided Hellfire Warlocks beat that. This is a complete waste of a Gestalt.


Factotum//Wizard is fun.

Yes, it is.

EvilJoe15
2010-09-14, 01:16 AM
Psion(Telepath) 5 / Thrallherd 1 / Warblade 1 / Illithid Savant 6 // Illithid LA+5 / Illithid HD 8

^I am curently playing this abomination in a really high-op 3.5 Planescape game. It has it all:

Action Economy Breakers - Thanks to IS I have two standard actions per round, and have a Schism in effect at all times. Add in Temporal Acceleration & White Raven Tactics, and I can blow through all my PP in no time.

Nigh Infinite PP - Or at least I would if I didn't use my Psicrystal as a psionic battery. Thanks to a combination of Feet leech, and Psionic Talent, I can spend 3pp to gain 30pp.

Flexibility - An ambiguous rule interpritation has granted me the power to know any power of 6th level or lower. That trick is giving the Psicrystal Hidden Talent, Overchannel, and Expanded knowledge. When I Leech the Psicrystal I choose to Leech Expanded knowledge, and therefore learn a new power. Now I only know it for the duration of the power, but that's not a problem with N.I.pp. This is open to interpritation, but my DM is very into Rule of Cool.

I should also say, I'm the second most powerful at the table.

This... Thing should not be shouldn't be played.

Here are some more reasonable combos:

Druid // Unarmed Swordsage
Druid // Psychic Warrior
Psion // Warblade
Psion // Wizard
C. Cleric // Swordsage

Awnetu
2010-09-14, 01:33 AM
Not quite. You want Bard/Warblade with Song of the White Raven on one side... you've got an entire other side to play with now.

IC does not advance beyond level 20, so that's completely pointless.

Oh, that'll teach me to read the Epic Level Handbook, I just assumed it would keep rising.



A level 40 Sneak Attack is a pathetic 20d6. Even single-sided Hellfire Warlocks beat that. This is a complete waste of a Gestalt.

The waste really comes down to how well built some characters are in the party, Ive seen my DM throw books at the rogue because of the Rogue//Swashbuckler.

Of course... that DM does think the defiant is broken...