What are the best templates for adding Int?

[Jallorn]

Just as it says in the title. Please help.

[Morph Bark]

Any CR/LA limitations? Half-Fiend comes to mind, but it might be cost-heavy LA-wise.

[BladeofOblivion]

Lich isn't too bad, and comes with other nice bonuses, but +4 LA hurts quite a bit, especially for a caster.

[Jallorn]

Any CR/LA limitations? Half-Fiend comes to mind, but it might be cost-heavy LA-wise.

I have 7 levels to play with, but I'd like to keep the other side of my gestalt clean.

[arguskos]

A really hilarious one is Elder Serpent of Set, but it has two issues.

First, it is Dragon material, meaning many many people will irrationally shoot it down without checking it to see if it's actually problematic (it's not, by the by).

Second, you can only apply the template to a non-intelligent serpent, such as a Viper or some such. It does give you +3d6 Int or something like that though, so it can work out if you roll well. Better is that it gives +2d6 Wis and Cha, and considering that most serpents have a base Wis of 10, that's pretty damn nice. Getting 22 Wis base is a good time. Apparently, serpents make great Clerics/Druids. Who knew?

Not sure how useful you'll find this, but I thought I'd mention it anyways.

[Jallorn]

Make that 5 levels.

[Zaydos]

Apparently, serpents make great Clerics/Druids. Who knew?


Greek myths? They were associated with prophecy and knowing all the secrets of the earth.


Make that 5 levels.

I'm assuming your LA is all on one side. You asked for templates so I'm guessing you already have a base race decided.
Well that gives us:
Half-Fiend (wings, +4 Int, spell-like abilities based on your HD).
Half-Illithid (also +4 Int, telepathy, spell-like abilities, and a bunch of natural weapons... unfortunately +5 LA).
Spellwarped (+4 Int, +3 LA)
and... I don't know Crystal Keep should have a good list of templates and you can search through it for the word Int.

[Jallorn]

Greek myths? They were associated with prophecy and knowing all the secrets of the earth.



I'm assuming your LA is all on one side. You asked for templates so I'm guessing you already have a base race decided.
Well that gives us:
Half-Fiend (wings, +4 Int, spell-like abilities based on your HD).
Half-Illithid (also +4 Int, telepathy, spell-like abilities, and a bunch of natural weapons... unfortunately +5 LA).
Spellwarped (+4 Int, +3 LA)
and... I don't know CK should have a good list of templates and you can search through it for the word Int.
That's an excellent idea, but I should mention that the mods don't really like it when you mention CK.

[BladeofOblivion]

How does Half-Illithid work, anyway? Illithids reproduce... ...Differently.

Lich is still valid if you are a caster above 10th level. +4 LA doesn't really matter in Gestalt, and the undead traits are pretty darned good.

[Jallorn]

I don't think I want to play undead in this game.

[*.*.*.*]

How does Half-Illithid work, anyway? Illithids reproduce... ...Differently.



It says it can be added to any humanoid that isn't human

So I guess Illithid's are only 'true' Illithids when the larvae is put in a human

[Gorgondantess]

Any time you're paying more than +1 LA per +2 intelligence adjustment, you might as well stamp "chump" on your forehead. Lich, Half-Illithid, and Half-Fiend are right out. I believe phrenic is +2 LA for +4 int, or something along those lines, and voidmind is a great +1 LA for +2 int, some great physicals, and other nice goodies- immunity to acid, ability score damage, and mind-affecting. Meanwhile, can anyone say venerable dragonwrought kobold? If you want to be cheesy, if you can qualify as a true dragon the Riddled template found on crystalkeep grants a whopping +6 int for a lovely +0 LA. If you want to be less cheesy, venerable lesser tiefling still works if you can suffer the -6 con.

[Jallorn]

Any time you're paying more than +1 LA per +2 intelligence adjustment, you might as well stamp "chump" on your forehead. Lich, Half-Illithid, and Half-Fiend are right out. I believe phrenic is +2 LA for +4 int, or something along those lines, and voidmind is a great +1 LA for +2 int, some great physicals, and other nice goodies- immunity to acid, ability score damage, and mind-affecting. Meanwhile, can anyone say venerable dragonwrought kobold? If you want to be cheesy, if you can qualify as a true dragon the Riddled template found on crystalkeep grants a whopping +6 int for a lovely +0 LA. If you want to be less cheesy, venerable lesser tiefling still works if you can suffer the -6 con.

Voidmind won't work, but I'm looking into Phrenic.

Phrenic is only +2 Int, so probably not worth it. Spellwarped is nice though, +3 LA for +4 Int. Also throws in SR and a few other handy things.

[BladeofOblivion]

I don't think I want to play undead in this game.

How about Half-Dragon then? +2 Int, +8 Str, +2 Con, +2 Cha, A mostly useless breath weapon, A free Elemental Immunity of your choice, +4 Natural Armor that stacks with other natural armor, Dragon Type, and only +3 LA as opposed to the +4 most of the rest offer.

[Jallorn]

I'm thinking I'll grab Spellwarped. I'm also going to see if my DM will agree to letting me use Greater Phantom. Any suggestions what LA that would go for? I'm thinking +2 for now, but it is more useful in the hands of a PC than an NPC.

[Zhalath]

It says it can be added to any humanoid that isn't human

So I guess Illithid's are only 'true' Illithids when the larvae is put in a human
Hey, there's a picture in Lords of Madness of an illithid implanting a drow. Non-core rulebook does not jive with other non-core rulebook. A rare occurrence indeed.


Voidmind won't work, but I'm looking into Phrenic.

Phrenic is only +2 Int, so probably not worth it. Spellwarped is nice though, +3 LA for +4 Int. Also throws in SR and a few other handy things.

SR is a handicap. It makes you MUCH harder to buff and heal. The benefit of not getting targeted by stuff all the time will be outdone by enemy casters suddenly having Spell Penetration and all sorts of "bypass SR" spells.

That said, I did once make a spellwarped ranger whose purpose in life was to jump really far. I think at 10th level he cleared 60 ft with no temporary effects, just gear and stats. Would've gone straight for Exemplar, but didn't have CAd at the time.

[Jallorn]

Hey, there's a picture in Lords of Madness of an illithid implanting a drow. Non-core rulebook does not jive with other non-core rulebook. A rare occurrence indeed.



SR is a handicap. It makes you MUCH harder to buff and heal. The benefit of not getting targeted by stuff all the time will be outdone by enemy casters suddenly having Spell Penetration and all sorts of "bypass SR" spells.

That said, I did once make a spellwarped ranger whose purpose in life was to jump really far. I think at 10th level he cleared 60 ft with no temporary effects, just gear and stats. Would've gone straight for Exemplar, but didn't have CAd at the time.

I believe that the official rule is that creatures with SR may elect to lower it for a spell. If that's not official, it is a common house rule.

[*.*.*.*]

Hey, there's a picture in Lords of Madness of an illithid implanting a drow. Non-core rulebook does not jive with other non-core rulebook. A rare occurrence indeed.
.

Mind giving another explanation why then? Definitely to the "any humanoid except a human" thing?

[Zhalath]

Mind giving another explanation why then? Definitely to the "any humanoid except a human" thing?

I forgot that sarcasm doesn't come across well in text.

I blame the Lords of Madness author who didn't think of a 3.0 book with a template. Oh, wait, LoM also has a special creature for ropers+half-illithid. The plot thickens.

Maybe there's a glitch with non-humans that causes half-illithids to form sometimes. Therefore, they try to get humans probably over other humans.

[Fax Celestis]

Maybe there's a glitch with non-humans that causes half-illithids to form sometimes. Therefore, they try to get humans probably over other humans.

This is explicitly what the half-illithid template says.

[tyckspoon]

I believe that the official rule is that creatures with SR may elect to lower it for a spell. If that's not official, it is a common house rule.

You can, but you have to use a standard action on it (and, I think, another one to put it back up afterward.) Which is a real pain when you're talking about combat buffs and/or healing, although isn't too big a deal when you're just getting the morning's daylong/six-hour/whatever buffs. Your *own* spells also ignore your SR, so if it's really important you can use any items that consider you to be the caster (primarily potions, but also things cast out of Spell Storing rings and similar.)

[Zaydos]

There's actually an older, Forgotten Realms, version of the Half-Illithid template in the book Underdark that has 2 differences from the Fiendish Folio version.
1) it can be applied to any corporeal (non-construct) creature.
2) no telepathy.

Also in 2e at least mind flayers could make illithids from demihumans and goblinoids. So it's just odd.

[BladeofOblivion]

Sorry for derailing the thread.

[hamishspence]

There's actually an older, Forgotten Realms, version of the Half-Illithid template in the book Underdark that has 2 differences from the Fiendish Folio version.
1) it can be applied to any corporeal (non-construct) creature.
2) no telepathy.

Also in 2e at least mind flayers could make illithids from demihumans and goblinoids. So it's just odd.

Newer, not older. Fiend Folio is late 3rd edition. Undersark is very early 3.5.

Simplest to go with Lords of Madness + Underdark overriding Fiend Folio- being both newer books.

[Malbordeus]

Tiefling? +1LA, +2 int/Dex and darkvision +other stuff.

Drow? not sure if it has int as AFB

Grey Elf? or whatever. no LA and +2 Int

there are otherways of getting Pseudo int - like fiendish familiars (fiend folio) and theres a feat I think.

[Morph Bark]

Tiefling? +1LA, +2 int/Dex and darkvision +other stuff.

Drow? not sure if it has int as AFB

Grey Elf? or whatever. no LA and +2 Int

there are otherways of getting Pseudo int - like fiendish familiars (fiend folio) and theres a feat I think.

Considering the OP mentioned only templates, it can be assumed he already has one of those races.