5 Self-Sufficient Core Builds

[Jack Zander]

So I just started playing my old Temple of Elemental Evil game and since it's a video game I can't ask my DM for cheese. The game limits itself to core only and there are no magic shops (though there are shops in general and some of them have some nice magic items). You get to create a five member party and most of your gear will either be found or crafted yourself.

That said, how would you make your team?

[Quirp]

Druid, Druid, Cleric, Wizard, Bard
I really like this team and you get all the power you want. Items are just a bonus.

[Tyndmyr]

Cleric, Wizard, Wizard, Wizard, Bard.

Im not a big druid player, but I like wizards. They'd all specialize in different things, obviously, but lets just say that between them all, it will be comparatively little effort to learn every core spell, and craft everything the party could possibly need.

[Jack Zander]

Cleric, Wizard, Wizard, Wizard, Bard.

Im not a big druid player, but I like wizards. They'd all specialize in different things, obviously, but lets just say that between them all, it will be comparatively little effort to learn every core spell, and craft everything the party could possibly need.

I like this one better than the double druid team. If I could find a way to get healing I'd probably make a team of five wizards who specialize in something different.

How would you set up each character though? What should they each focus on?

[Veros]

I like this one better than the double druid team. If I could find a way to get healing I'd probably make a team of five wizards who specialize in something different.

How would you set up each character though? What should they each focus on?

One wizard with Arcane Disciple? Or instead of one of the Wizards an Archivist?

[Gavinfoxx]

Are you using the Circle of Eight modpack 5.8.1?

http://www.co8.org/forum/

What I do is focus on Crafting and Spiked Chains. It's a very tactical game, make it work like that -- do lots of AOO, 5 foot steps, tactical positioning, charging, buffing, battlefield control, etc. Most classes (except the Wizard...) get a level of Fighter, at least.

Here is what I'm running:

BardX/Fighter1, ClericX/Fighter1, RogueX/Fighter1, WizardX, BarbarianX/Ranger2/Fighter2. The Cleric is Sun and Good, for crafting.

[herrhauptmann]

One wizard with Arcane Disciple? Or instead of one of the Wizards an Archivist?

The game came out in 2003 I think, I don't think Archivist or Arcane disciple existed back then.

Haven't actually played the game, but how about the Horizon Tripper by Saph? Or was the HW nerfed by the game engine?

[Tyndmyr]

Probably a conjurer, an enchanter, and an abjurer. I want to work in an evoker in for classic blastings sake, but an enchanter is too good to pass up in a multiple wizard party. Making friends with the monsters and making them your melee team is too good to pass up.

[Gavinfoxx]

One wizard with Arcane Disciple? Or instead of one of the Wizards an Archivist?

Reread OP. Video game!

However, IMO, it is the most 3.xe videogame of all the 3.xe video games, with the POSSIBLE exception of D&DO, since I haven't played it... being actually really turn based, with charging and stuff.

I'm not even sure if the game implemented Prestige Classes...

[Jack Zander]

Are you using the Circle of Eight modpack 5.8.1

I'm using the 5.9 beta actually. And I like the spike chain idea. I wasn't sure how viable it was with all the limitations the game gives you.


I'm not even sure if the game implemented Prestige Classes...

Nope. Forgot to say that. No prestige classes available.


Probably a conjurer, an enchanter, and an abjurer. I want to work in an evoker in for classic blastings sake, but an enchanter is too good to pass up in a multiple wizard party. Making friends with the monsters and making them your melee team is too good to pass up.

Couldn't I make my bard an enchanter?

[Gavinfoxx]

Oh, the spiked chain thing is viable... IF the group is crafting focused.. It takes a while to get a lot of Masterwork Spiked Chains (for everyone but the Wizard...), but it's doable.

[Tyndmyr]

Couldn't I make my bard an enchanter?

You certainly could. I'd make my bard rather diplomacy focused. Bring them in via enchantment, make friends. Armies are awesome. Of course, the bard could then provide buffs for the lot.

[Eldariel]

Druid/Druid/Cleric/Wizard/Wizard (with Rogue 1/Assassin 1/Arcane Trickster - Trapfinder is always nice)

You could sub one Druid for one more Wizard but I prefer multiple Druids since they've got lots of stuff they can cover; they can handle most of the facework and casting and fighting and healing and such.

[shadow_archmagi]

I remember ToEE!

My game ended when I got a bug that meant all my characters had Grease forever. Every battle involved constant falling over.

[Gavinfoxx]

The Bard should *definitely* focus on social skills, so that you have most of the options in the text parts of the game... even so far as to cross class social skills...

And those with issues on the bugs:

That's why you get the CoE modpacks!

[Jack Zander]

I remember ToEE!

My game ended when I got a bug that meant all my characters had Grease forever. Every battle involved constant falling over.

Yes, those were the good old days. When casting magic missile corrupted all your save files and you couldn't loot the bodies until they decayed to nothing.

They have a lot of patches out now that make the game playable once more. Plus they've added some new quests and spells and such.

[jiriku]

Do you mean the RToEE game? I've had good luck in that one with barbarian/fighter using a reach weapon, as it's fairly easy to tank in the game by occupying chokepoints.

Take a good-aligned cleric and grab the Good domain and Craft Arms and Armor, so you can enchant Holy onto the weapons of everyone in the party -- it's a big help in the lower levels of the temple. If you decide to craft, it's important to think waaay ahead and ensure that your crafter will have the necessary spells to make the items you want to make. Clerics are best for crafting since you have your whole list available.

As mentioned, a bard with maxed social skills is super awesome for unlocking conversation options with the NPCs.

Also, don't neglect the hireable NPCs -- the hill giant and the sleeping king with the sword of true striking are real brutes in combat.

[Gavinfoxx]

I'd personally stay away from hireable NPC's. Lots of those are made to make the game playable with non min/maxxed parties. I would personally rather have a bunch of customized, min/maxxed PC's than be with a bunch of NPC's with arbitrarily high stats / level / crazy weird rule breaking magic items.

[Jack Zander]

I went with:

Rogue: Party Face and Trap/Lock Buster
Fighter: Spike Chain Build
Cleric: Buffer and Sword and Board Melee
Conjurer: Summoner and Battlefield Control
Transmuter: Buffer and Debuffer

All the mages will grab various crafting feats. I may multiclass the rogue and fighter but not sure what to multiclass them into (barbarian for the fighter probably, maybe bard for the rogue)

[jseah]

Druid, Druid, Cleric, Wizard, Bard
I really like this team and you get all the power you want. Items are just a bonus.
Very close to my team.

I had Sorceror, Druid, Cleric, Wizard, Bard/Rogue. With the Druid NPC.

My wizard spends her time being small in one corner. Since bringing out the wizard CC is overkill. Even against Temple Guards. (Doing it the hard way, without the cloaks)

Also, the game (without mods) doesn't have PrCs. No Fly either and Invisibility got nerfed. (you can see the location of invisible enemies, and they can see you. 50% miss chance is still pretty good)

Fighters kind of get screwed over in that game. Low magic items, small areas and always being massively outnumbered makes fighters pretty horrible.
CC is King in the game. One solid fog + entangle and bam!, my druids get to use their call lightning to kill the enemies while everyone else is reduced to Ready vs Approach. In really large fights, the sorceror drops a fireball or two.

[Soranar]

Don't overthink it too much, I soloed the game with a cleric using that strangely powerful cleaver weapon (you can pwn most crowds with a few feats: cleave + great cleave). You end up critting every other hit.

The spells pump you enough to get it done (make sure you give yourself the proper immunities) and you can heal plenty between fights

With a decent armor and shield nothing except the last boss should even be able to land a dangerous hits.

[ericgrau]

Cleric, Wizard, Wizard, Wizard, Bard.


The groups suggested so far remind me of my favorite final fantasy I party: Red Mage, White Mage, Black Mage, Black Mage. It wasn't the strongest party b/c in FFI Fighter trumps every other class, but it was still up there in power and it was a blast to play. The group went boom and fights were over quickly.

I dunno about doing the same on a D&D computer game though. As said there's no way to get cheese through, and the characters are low level. EDIT: And given the above post strategy may be completely different from pen and paper because there are different things to exploit.

[Jack Zander]

Oh, I've gone through the game with a solo wizard before and then an all fighter team (nothing but straight classed fighters). However, I was hoping to make everything a pushover. So far I'm not having any luck. The massive groups of bandits you face at low levels are overwhelming. I think they expect you to hire a few meat shields in town and let them die instead of your characters.

So how can I optimize my spike chain fighter?

Str 14
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 8

He's a human so at level two I have EWP (Spiked Chain), Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise, and Improved Trip. Should I take barbarian the rest of the way or are there a lot more feats that I still need?

[ericgrau]

Like I said I dunno about computer games but generally crowds are best handled with cleaving and area spells. The wizard (or sorc) can transition from sleep to glitterdust to fireball. The fighter (or other melee) could probably trip and cleave. Druids have some crowd control too. Lower levels favor melee classes more. If the swarms come at you from far away it's also generally better to use a bow or sling and switch to melee as they get closer, especially at low levels where there's not as much advantage to specializing.

[jiriku]

Yeah, Cleave is such a power feat in that game, because you're constantly surrounded by crowds of fairly accurate, low-hp mooks. With some barbarian rage to get your damage up, you'll score an extra hit (and often an extra kill) again and again and again.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Oh, I've gone through the game with a solo wizard before and then an all fighter team (nothing but straight classed fighters). However, I was hoping to make everything a pushover. So far I'm not having any luck. The massive groups of bandits you face at low levels are overwhelming. I think they expect you to hire a few meat shields in town and let them die instead of your characters.

So how can I optimize my spike chain fighter?

Str 14
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 8

He's a human so at level two I have EWP (Spiked Chain), Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise, and Improved Trip. Should I take barbarian the rest of the way or are there a lot more feats that I still need?

Core? Not really. Cleave, of course, and Great cleave, for which you need Power Attack. Two more Fighter levels nets you this by level 4. After that, ditch and go into Barbarian. Weapon Focus at 6 and Improved Critical at 9. If you want to go ahead and get Weapon Specialization at 12, by all means, there aren't many other feats you'd like, and you have the requisite 4 levels in Fighter.

[Endarire]

First, I highly advise you get the Circle of Eight (Co8) Mod Pack (http://www.co8.org/forum/). Enjoy my character, Ronald Rynnwrathi!

Second, your party's build depends if you want to trounce the game or go through it mostly as intended. In a party of 5 Evokers, we trashed everything once we got fireball. Until then, the game was a grind.

[Jack Zander]

First, I highly advise you get the Circle of Eight (Co8) Mod Pack (http://www.co8.org/forum/). Enjoy my character, Ronald Rynnwrathi!

Second, your party's build depends if you want to trounce the game or go through it mostly as intended. In a party of 5 Evokers, we trashed everything once we got fireball. Until then, the game was a grind.

Of course, it would be evokers who dominate a video game wouldn't it?

[Eldariel]

Of course, it would be evokers who dominate a video game wouldn't it?

In my experience, that's only true for easy games and they only "dominate" them because you don't need any competence to finish them. This applies to...almost all D&D video games, among others. Efficiency simply isn't much of an issue when almost all enemies you face are mere sacs of HP that don't really pose a threat and you get huge advance warning and perfect information on the more difficult ones...along with artifact-level gear generally. ToEE is, of course, a tad different. But yeah, when you normally face hordes of weak enemies, it's a bit faster with fireballs than otherwise.

[ericgrau]

Not just faster, fireballs simply have a larger area of effect than the non-damage spells. It is easily the spell of choice for large swarms video game or not. For fewer numbers of enemies crowd control spells that take a few opponents out of the fight often fare better. That's probably also why cleave is the uber feat in that game, whereas normally it's not so hot.

In the case of final fantasy I all the insta-death and such spells were to failure prone against any worthwhile enemies to be worth getting. And all the defensive spells too weak versus just killing some of your attackers. Not counting some stacking exploit with ruse (or was it fog?) to get 100% miss chance with multiple castings IIRC. So really it depends on how the game balances the different spell types against eachother.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Not just faster, fireballs simply have a larger area of effect than the non-damage spells. It is easily the spell of choice for large swarms video game or not. For fewer numbers of enemies crowd control spells that take a few opponents out of the fight often fare better. That's probably also why cleave is the uber feat in that game, whereas normally it's not so hot. I direct you to Slow, which also is the same level, and severely cripples opponents. Also, Stinking Cloud, which does the same. Both have the same, or greater, area effect as a Fireball.


In the case of final fantasy I all the insta-death and such spells were to failure prone against any worthwhile enemies to be worth getting. And all the defensive spells too weak versus just killing some of your attackers. Not counting some stacking exploit with ruse (or was it fog?) to get 100% miss chance with multiple castings IIRC. So really it depends on how the game balances the different spell types against eachother.

Not quite true. Sure, the insta-gib spells mostly didn't work reliably, but when you get Invis2/Shield2 to get higher evasion and higher armor on the whole party... it became worthwhile to cast. Also, cripple spells, like Slow, worked quite well, even if it was single-target. Very nice against mobs that hasted themselves, certainly. Haste and Sabre were two buffs which I always stacked on my 'beatsticks' on any major/boss fight. The additional damage output was just staggering.

[Thurbane]

For the ToEE CRPG, my usual team was:

1. CG Fighter/Barbarian type (to wield Fragarach). Greater cleave, Combat Reflexes, Whirlwind Attack - in the game, it ignores the rule that Whilwind Attack doesn't stack with Cleave, so if you get surrounded by a bunch of mooks - and this does happen in ToEE quite a bit - Whirlwind Attack can really decimate them, especially with Fragarach :smalltongue:
2. Elf Rogue (archer type) - to open lock, and spot secret doors. Also, face man is very important - enough ranks in Bluff, Intimidate, Diplomacy and Sense Motive open up extra dialogue with NPCs that otherwise wouldn't be available
3. Wizard (item crafter - usually human or dwarf)
4. Cleric (1/2 Orc, Kord or Heironeous) second melee type, plus some crafting
5. Druid (crafter) - AC is good, but wild shape in the game kinda sucks, and isn't the melee monster that it is in a pen & paper game

[Starbuck_II]

Cleric, Wizard, Rogue 2/Wizard X, Barb (or Fighter), and then either another warrior type like a Fighter if have a Barb or another caster (Cleric, Bard, Sorceror, etc).

I found battle field control/buffing/save or lose made a good Wizard.
Magic missile is awesome later though since each counted for SR (unlike D&D where it counred once for SR),