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The Vorpal Tribble
2010-09-15, 12:17 PM
Ok, so I have a character who from class features has Damage Reduction 5/Adamantine, Silver and Evil

So how does this work? Does it have to be an evil silvered adamantine weapon or can all three be used to bypass it individually?

The former makes it very hard to hurt the character, while the last much easier.

Any official rulings I've missed on stacking damage reduction?

I know they don't all stack to get a DR 15, but some creatures like demons/devils have to be hurt by a weapon that is both good and silvered.

crazedloon
2010-09-15, 12:20 PM
the highest applies. Therefore when 1 would be negated it would logically not be the highest. So you would need the evil silvered adamantine weapon to bypass all the DRs

Starbuck_II
2010-09-15, 12:21 PM
Ok, so I have a character who from class features has Damage Reduction 5/Adamantine, Silver and Evil

So how does this work? Does it have to be an evil silvered adamantine weapon or can all three be used to bypass it individually?

The former makes it very hard to hurt the character, while the last much easier.

Any official rulings I've missed on stacking damage reduction?

I know they don't all stack to get a DR 15, but some creatures like demons/devils have to be hurt by a weapon that is both good and silvered.

Wait, you have DR 5/adamantine + DR 5/evil + DR 5/silver?
Then you have effectively DR 5/- unless it is possible to have a unholy silver adamantine weapon.

If you meant DR 5/adamantine and DR 5/silver and evil then you'd have DR 5 since it still is unlikely they have a silver adamantine weapon.

Esser-Z
2010-09-15, 12:21 PM
"And" means it must be all three. If it said "or", just one would be sufficient. But it says "and". All (non-elemental or force) damage that is not from an Adamantine Silver Evil-aligned weapon does five fewer points of damage to the character.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-09-15, 12:23 PM
Wait, you have DR 5/adamantine + DR 5/evil + DR 5/silver?
Then you have effectively DR 5/- unless it is possible to have a unholy silver adamantine weapon.

If you meant DR 5/adamantine and DR 5/silver and evil then you'd have DR 5 since it still is unlikely they have a silver adamantine weapon.
Yup. Playing a Green Star Adept (Adamantine), Were-chordevoc (Silver), Saint (Evil)

You can buy silvering to put over a weapon though, so its feasibly possible to bypass it if the ruling above is correct. Just not likely. Would have to go out of your way to try to hurt her.

Quirp
2010-09-15, 01:03 PM
I think by RAW there are no weapons that are silver and adamantine since a weapon can only be made from one material. If you buy that item that lets you apply the silvered property to a weapon this weapon transforms from an adamantine weapon to a silver weapon for the duration, but does not go through DR/adamantine anymore.

Fax Celestis
2010-09-15, 01:12 PM
Sure, but isn't there some enhancement (shadowstriking or metalline or something) that overcomes metal-DR either as "whatever it last hit" or "as all of them"? You'd have to watch out for an unholy one of those, but really, how often is that going to come up?

Zaydos
2010-09-15, 01:23 PM
There are some weapons that adept to whatever DR type of a target they just hit with various different rules (some imply they can only be 1 metal at a time, others don't).

Also there is a spell in Book of Exalted Deeds that makes a weapon deal damage as if adamantine for a limited time, and there is one for silver and one for cold iron, but the latter 2 may be Dragon Magazine only. I have seen a familiar companion that dealt Good, Adamantine, Cold Iron, Silver, Slashing, Piercing, Bludgeoning damage with its bite attacks.

jiriku
2010-09-15, 01:46 PM
Yup, your DR is really DR 5/-- for all practical purposes. Differing damage reductions don't stack, but each must be overcome separately. Nice perk.

Gavinfoxx
2010-09-15, 01:52 PM
It's not that hard. The enemies just need an evil, adamantine weapon that they apply some type of silver weapon spell or alchemical effect to, or something that ignores DR (there are a good amount of weapon options that do this).

jiriku
2010-09-15, 01:55 PM
It's not that hard. The enemies just need an evil, adamantine weapon that they apply some type of silver weapon spell or alchemical effect to, or something that ignores DR (there are a good amount of weapon options that do this).

True. But I imagine the number of times that Vorpal Tribble will face enemies with the foreknowledge, means, and inclination to do this will be quite small. And really, with the effort required, it would be easier for most enemies to simply find a way to deal 5 additional points of damage instead.

Gavinfoxx
2010-09-15, 01:58 PM
Or the assassins* threatening that particular character could all come from a school of Ninja that has, as a class feature, an option that negates DR. Doesn't Swordsage have a maneuver that does it? And are there alchemical devices or spells that add 'overcomes adamantine based dr' as well as the silver based or alignment based ones?

*Because it's safe to assume that assassins attacking any powerful D&D character isn't THAT uncommon of an occurrence.

Zaydos
2010-09-15, 02:06 PM
Unholy Silver Weapon and Ring of Adamantine Touch (6000 GP, MiC page 121). It is not DR 5/-.

Greenish
2010-09-15, 02:14 PM
"And" means it must be all three. If it said "or", just one would be sufficient. But it says "and". All (non-elemental or force) damage that is not from an Adamantine Silver Evil-aligned weapon does five fewer points of damage to the character.All damage from spells (/spell-likes/supernatural abilities) bypasses DR.

Icewraith
2010-09-15, 02:19 PM
Actually you'd go with an aligned/holy adamantine weapon and wear Gauntlets of Weaponry Arcane from MIC. If the weapon is ACTUALLY adamantine, it gets the extra hp, hardness, and sundering issues. The gauntlets don't reduce your damage, but do treat any held weapon as silvered and magic for DR purposes.

A lot of DR is actually fairly cheap to get by once it gets ridiculous.

Gauntlets of Weaponry arcane- 6k
Cold Iron Ring- 6k (Forgotten Realms somewhere tho, so may be harder to get/allow)
Item of align weapon 3/day- should be fairly cheap

Adamantine Weapon of choice- extra 8k.
Backup Adamantine Weapon of Choice- 8k (Morningstar if you use slashing, dagger if you use Bludgeoning, otherwise longsword or similar depending on weapon style and feats)

Boom. The only damage reduction you should have to worry about is dr/-. Impractical at low level but very affordable once you start running into dr/15 _______ and _______. The Gauntlets are arguably the best of the bunch for anyone going a two-weapon route since you can usually get one expensive item at fairly low level and it eliminates the need to get magic weapons for quite some time.

Person_Man
2010-09-15, 02:23 PM
Yup. Playing a Green Star Adept (Adamantine), Were-chordevoc (Silver), Saint (Evil)

Wait, what? I'm ashamed to say I have no idea what a were-chordevoc is, other then guessing that it's uses some weird were-not-wolf template from Savage Species. Also, wouldn't you lose your template abilities when you got to Green Star Adept 10 and become a Construct? And given all the mechanical difficulties (sky high LA, possibly racial HD, Green Star Adept suckitude) what do you do in combat other then sit around being mostly immune to stuff (thanks to Saint)?


Also, Gauntlets of Weaponry Arcane: Any weapon you wield counts as silver. 9,000 gp, Player’s Guide to Faerun pg 123.

And any creature which has DR/Whatever bypasses that DR with it's natural weapons. I'm sure there are plenty of templates could be stacked on top of one another to bypass your DR.

Greenish
2010-09-15, 02:28 PM
And any creature which has DR/Whatever bypasses that DR with it's natural weapons.I thought that was only for Alignment or Epic DR.

So, does a zombie's slam bypass DR/Slashing?

Zaydos
2010-09-15, 02:30 PM
In 3.0 DR granted the ability to bypass DR. In 3.5 I thought they changed that to only DR/magic, DR/epic, and DR/alignment.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-09-15, 02:35 PM
Wait, what? I'm ashamed to say I have no idea what a were-chordevoc is, other then guessing that it's uses some weird were-not-wolf template from Savage Species.
Lycanthrope template from the Monster Manual 3.5 using the Chordevoc (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050204a&page=5) from Races of the Wild (also 3.5).


Also, wouldn't you lose your template abilities when you got to Green Star Adept 10 and become a Construct?
Such as and why?


And given all the mechanical difficulties (sky high LA, possibly racial HD, Green Star Adept suckitude) what do you do in combat other then sit around being mostly immune to stuff (thanks to Saint)?
Afflicted lycanthropes are a +2 LA, and included in that is the HD of their base animal (in this case 1 HD), so along with d8's, I get fort and ref saves, 60 ft. fly speed, some nice feats such as fly-by attack, big bonuses to saves, damage reduction, etc etc. For 2 character levels. Good trade imo.

Saint is only +2 LA and I get lots of immunities and reductions and abilities.

Only the saint LA keeps me from increasing. So +2 LA isn't exactly a biggie.

As for what else I can do, here is my entry into the Iron Optimisation Competion: Little Starry-Eyes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8888409#post8888409)

As for what I'm doing with it now, well, it's in a gestalt game. Nuff said?



And any creature which has DR/Whatever bypasses that DR with it's natural weapons. I'm sure there are plenty of templates could be stacked on top of one another to bypass your DR.
No, creatures have to do the same as anyone else to bypass DR.

My question was simply how does it work together class-wise.

Looks like it is agreed it goes a powerful direction, but there are a number of specific, extensive, as well as ridiculous ways to get around it, and all of them require going out of your way to produce. With that I'm content.

Urpriest
2010-09-15, 03:00 PM
Vorpal, you phrased the OP incorrectly, unless I'm much mistaken. Perhaps you can answer this question:

Do you have DR 5/silver, DR 5/adamantine, and DR 5/evil? Or do you have DR 5/silver, adamantine, and evil? These are completely different things.

If the former, you apply the highest relevant DR. Thus a silver weapon fails to bypass DR 5/adamantine or DR 5/evil, but succeeds in passing DR 5/silver. So it deals 5 less damage. The same applies for the other keywords. If someone hits you with an adamatine, evil, silvered weapon, then it would deal full damage.

Hmm...after working through this, it looks like DR 5/silver, DR 5/adamantine, and DR 5/evil really are equivalent to DR 5/silver, adamantine, and evil. However, there may be abilities that distinguish between the two, so it's still best not to confuse them.

Also, I remain amused that you're playing Little Starry Eyes. The impression I got was that she was optimized around sustained survival and combat in outer space...does that come up often in this game?

Person_Man
2010-09-15, 03:03 PM
Such as and why?

At 10th level the Green Star Adept (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20041105a) gains the Emerald Perfection ability. His type changes to a Construct. I've never been a RAW expert and don't claim to be in this situation (I've been playing D&D too long - all the editions end up getting semi-jumbled in my head, especially 3.0/3.5/PF), but if I'm reading the ability correctly it means you lose your previous type. Thus you are no longer eligible for the lycanthrope template, which can only be applied to a humanoid or giant. And you are no longer eligible for the Saint template, which can only be applied to "living" creatures - Constructs are specifically "unliving matter" who are not subject to precision damage, critical hits, healing magic, etc. You also lose any abilities you might have from being a Human or Outsider or whatever. And you lose your Constitution score, and any hit point adjustment for Constitution.

Again, not claiming I'm right. Just seeking clarification.

Jjeinn-tae
2010-09-15, 03:15 PM
At 10th level the Green Star Adept (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20041105a) gains the Emerald Perfection ability. His type changes to a Construct. I've never been a RAW expert and don't claim to be in this situation (I've been playing D&D too long - all the editions end up getting semi-jumbled in my head, especially 3.0/3.5/PF), but if I'm reading the ability correctly it means you lose your previous type. Thus you are no longer eligible for the lycanthrope template, which can only be applied to a humanoid or giant. And you are no longer eligible for the Saint template, which can only be applied to "living" creatures - Constructs are specifically "unliving matter" who are not subject to precision damage, critical hits, healing magic, etc. You also lose any abilities you might have from being a Human or Outsider or whatever. And you lose your Constitution score, and any hit point adjustment for Constitution.

Again, not claiming I'm right. Just seeking clarification.

If you have the lycanthrope template before you're a construct, as Little Starry-Eyes does, you don't lose it. You only need to qualify for it when you take it, otherwise there'd be many type-changing templates that you'd lose as soon as the effects hit.

Chambers
2010-09-15, 04:18 PM
A projectile weapon with the Force special ability (MIC) would bypass all of your damage reduction. So...watch out for archers with glowing bows?

AmberVael
2010-09-15, 04:27 PM
Hmm...after working through this, it looks like DR 5/silver, DR 5/adamantine, and DR 5/evil really are equivalent to DR 5/silver, adamantine, and evil. However, there may be abilities that distinguish between the two, so it's still best not to confuse them.

The easiest way to demonstrate this is to point out that there are some feats and abilities which will increase (and probably some to decrease, but I can't remember them) your damage reduction. If you have three types of damage reduction, it may only be affecting one of them, not all of them, which would mean you're more resistant to certain type of effects.