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View Full Version : Need a Class for Healing and Combat Ability -- But Not a Cleric!



wayfare
2010-09-15, 09:08 PM
Hey all. Playing my first D&D game in ages, and I'm wondering what I should play to Mix up Decent combat ability with Healing ability. Any suggestions are appreciated, though the following details are important:

0) 3.5 rules
1) My GM is starting us off at level 1
2) Only core races are allowed
3) I would like to keep to one class, if possible.
4) My GM is spotting us a feat

Thoughts?

WarKitty
2010-09-15, 09:10 PM
Druid. You can still cast healing spells, but you have wild shape now! For pre-wildshape levels, you have an animal companion.

Zaydos
2010-09-15, 09:19 PM
I second Druid.

If you want something that's not a druid.
Crusader (you hit things, allies heal).
Favored Soul (sorcerer equivalent of cleric; lighter armor means worse in combat).
Duskblade with the Arcane Disciple feat who spends a spell known on CLW (not optimal at all but it is possible).

The Glyphstone
2010-09-15, 09:20 PM
Seconding druid. Your animal companion is almost as good a combatant as a Fighter would be, and you've got healing spells (if slightly behind a Cleric's progression). If you're allowed non-core feats, Spontaneous Healer takes Wis 15 (you should have 16 at least) and lets you convert any spell to a Cure Wisdom bonus+a few times per day. Once you hit level 5, you've got Wildshape and you'll be a melee machine combined with your companion.

Thurbane
2010-09-15, 09:22 PM
For a slightly left of center answer, you could try a Binder - although, their healing ability won't kick in until they can summon Buer.

Starbuck_II
2010-09-15, 10:16 PM
Dragon Shaman adds some healing, but only up to 1/2 max. But at will.

Doomboy911
2010-09-15, 10:18 PM
Ranger for great fighting skills if you find some healing scrolls you're set.

Gavinfoxx
2010-09-15, 10:25 PM
Or just be a Mystic Ranger. Those are great.

HunterOfJello
2010-09-15, 10:36 PM
Crusader with a 1 level Cleric or Druid dip so you can use low level healing wands



In Combat - Great Fighting along with Healing Maneuvers

Out of Combat - spam Lesser Vigor

Eldariel
2010-09-16, 06:28 AM
Simple Cleric is a fine option too; they can be great warriors if that's the reason you didn't want one. But Druid is easier to make a combat monster, and just about the best at anything anyways so there.

tenshiakodo
2010-09-16, 06:34 AM
Dragon Shaman needs a little op fu to really shine, but yeah, that healing aura is really damn nice! I thought that there was another class that could get Draconic Auras as well, but I'm not finding the book at the moment.

Frozen_Feet
2010-09-16, 06:35 AM
Tomb-tainted Dread Necromancer? Bribe other players to be undead or something.

Malbordeus
2010-09-16, 07:14 AM
what do you mean bribe? just turn them into undead :P

be a bard :) they have healing

Aotrs Commander
2010-09-16, 07:21 AM
Archivist is another option, provided you can blag your DM into reasonable scroll access. That gives you the druid's spells for offense and the cleric's for a few of the buffs at higher levels (e.g. Divine Power) and for that vitally important Restoration which isn't on the Druid list! (And that's the bit I found most problematic when the party I was running for only had a druid for healing.)

Shenanigans
2010-09-16, 08:36 AM
If you do go with Archivist, consider grabbing Touch of Healing for a feat. It's a nice, resource-effective way to do out-of-combat healing, especially if you have more than one front line melee character in the party.

Eldariel
2010-09-16, 09:16 AM
Archivist is another option, provided you can blag your DM into reasonable scroll access. That gives you the druid's spells for offense and the cleric's for a few of the buffs at higher levels (e.g. Divine Power) and for that vitally important Restoration which isn't on the Druid list! (And that's the bit I found most problematic when the party I was running for only had a druid for healing.)

We just used Wand of Restoration; it has an expensive component anyways so the additional Wand-cost isn't that big and then it's always available. Given Restoration has very few Caster Level dependent uses, it tends to be plenty. Just have someone with UMD.

Aotrs Commander
2010-09-16, 09:23 AM
We just used Wand of Restoration; it has an expensive component anyways so the additional Wand-cost isn't that big and then it's always available. Given Restoration has very few Caster Level dependent uses, it tends to be plenty. Just have someone with UMD.

To be fair, that time being the first we'd ever done without a cleric, and the adventure being Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth, no-one (even me, the DM) had thought about Restoration. (We'd actually not twigged that bit wasn't a druid spell until they needed it!) And, obviously, them being isolated in the wilderness made it problematic. Especially when the druid and one of the other characters got petrified, and they had to trek back to town to get some scrolls! (Sadly, that fight was about the only one in the entire campaign that remotely challenged them, even with them being a level below the supposed range. Dread Necromancer's skeletons+ Shadow Sun Ninja = unlimited out of combat healing...)

Ruinix
2010-09-16, 09:30 AM
favored soul and later take the PrC Radiance Servant of Pelor.

almost forgot. build the progresion to take persist spell. the PrC grant TU for fuel it, and go 24/7 on Divine Power ^^

Urpriest
2010-09-16, 10:50 AM
favored soul and later take the PrC Radiance Servant of Pelor.

almost forgot. build the progresion to take persist spell. the PrC grant TU for fuel it, and go 24/7 on Divine Power ^^

How are you planning to get the Sun domain? Taking a level in Contemplative means you can't finish Radiant Servant, and it comes late.

aeauseth
2010-09-16, 10:51 AM
With a healing belt (MIC) and a Rod of restoration (MIC), you should be in pretty good shape. Neither of these have class restrictions, so pick a class you would have fun with.

Need a bit more healing? Get a second belt of healing, or a third. They are only 750gp and do 2d8 three times a day.

I'd recommend every player have a belt of healing. This allows them to do their own "touch ups", leaving the serious healing to the cleric.

Eventually (level 13 ish) you will find the lack of Greater Restoration a problem (level drains). A divine scroll or a trip back to town are reasonable solutions. This means someone in your party needs group teleport or the ability to read the scroll. With some creativity you might think of other ways to deal with level drains.

Personally I love the Cleric. I've played a healing cleric, battle cleric, and now I'm playing a cleric/warlock/eldritch disciple. They are the jack of all trades and master of many! You don't just have to be a healer waiting in the back lines for your fighter to get an owie. My Eldritch Disciple uses DMM and lesser vigor mass so the party is always topped off, so I only dedicate a single spell to healing.

Draz74
2010-09-16, 11:13 AM
Ardent is another option, though it takes some pretty careful optimization to make it good at both healing and fighting.

Shenanigans
2010-09-16, 11:33 AM
With a healing belt (MIC) and a Rod of restoration (MIC), you should be in pretty good shape. Neither of these have class restrictions, so pick a class you would have fun with.

Need a bit more healing? Get a second belt of healing, or a third. They are only 750gp and do 2d8 three times a day.

I'd recommend every player have a belt of healing. This allows them to do their own "touch ups", leaving the serious healing to the cleric.
Second. I almost never play a lower to mid-level melee type without at least one or two.

Seriously, the healing belt is the only MIC item I let characters take without my approval. It's convenient and not game-breaking. In fact, I encourage them to take it. :)

UnChosenOne
2010-09-16, 11:38 AM
Some classes that fit the desription:
Favorite Soul (Suffer from slight case of MAD)
Druid
Sprit Shaman (Also suffers from slight case of MAD)

Shenanigans
2010-09-16, 12:17 PM
Favorite Soul (Suffer from slight case of MAD)
From now on this is what I am calling them. ;)

Eldariel
2010-09-16, 12:18 PM
To be fair, that time being the first we'd ever done without a cleric, and the adventure being Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth, no-one (even me, the DM) had thought about Restoration. (We'd actually not twigged that bit wasn't a druid spell until they needed it!) And, obviously, them being isolated in the wilderness made it problematic. Especially when the druid and one of the other characters got petrified, and they had to trek back to town to get some scrolls! (Sadly, that fight was about the only one in the entire campaign that remotely challenged them, even with them being a level below the supposed range. Dread Necromancer's skeletons+ Shadow Sun Ninja = unlimited out of combat healing...)

Oh, btw, Druids do get access to Restoration; just not before level 17. Then they get two different Restorations; Shapechange SLA Restorations and SNAIX Celestial Charger Unicorns with their Cleric-casting. :smallbiggrin: Panacea and Heal also cover lots of stuff though missing out on Ability Drain healing until 17 really hurts.

Last Laugh
2010-09-16, 12:52 PM
Dragon Shaman needs a little op fu to really shine, but yeah, that healing aura is really damn nice! I thought that there was another class that could get Draconic Auras as well, but I'm not finding the book at the moment.

any level 3 character can take the Draconic Aura feat to gain this ability. (+1 for non dragonbloodsed. dragonblooded characters have a slow aura progression.)

The Dragon lord Prestige class from....Draconomicon is painfully easy to get into. (Ba +6 or Intimidate +9) and grants a much faster aura progression than the Dragon Shaman.

tenshiakodo
2010-09-16, 02:15 PM
Ah yes, thank you. I like the idea of the Dragon Shaman, I just wish they hadn't been so afraid of the class when they wrote it. "ZOMG, limitless fast healing and a breath weapon you can use every 2-5 rounds, we better hamstring this class!"

And then they made the Dragonfire Adept. :smallannoyed:

Curmudgeon
2010-09-16, 02:19 PM
Favored Soul, specifically of Kossuth. Kossuth's favored weapon is the spiked chain. You get as class features the following feats:

Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain)
Weapon Focus (spiked chain)
Weapon Specialization (spiked chain)

wayfare
2010-09-16, 02:48 PM
Thanks for all the advice!

I think I'm going druid. I was wondering if you all might help me out with a some role-playing stuff.

I want to play a Druid who we might call a bit more "scientifically minded." He respects nature, but sees it in everything -- in cities, in the wide open country, even in parched wasteland.

His magic use is also a bit more philosophical -- rather than calling on natures might, he sees his magic as applying his will to natural energies, thus creating "supernatural" effects.

Obviously this requires high intellignce (going with a 15 there). Are any of these ideas counter to being a druid, or is the concept workable?

Eldariel
2010-09-16, 02:53 PM
Thanks for all the advice!

I think I'm going druid. I was wondering if you all might help me out with a some role-playing stuff.

I want to play a Druid who we might call a bit more "scientifically minded." He respects nature, but sees it in everything -- in cities, in the wide open country, even in parched wasteland.

His magic use is also a bit more philosophical -- rather than calling on natures might, he sees his magic as applying his will to natural energies, thus creating "supernatural" effects.

Obviously this requires high intellignce (going with a 15 there). Are any of these ideas counter to being a druid, or is the concept workable?

I don't see why not. Druids can afford high mental stats since Wildshape will cover for their physicals anyways, and while the archetypal "Nature's Fury" Druid is of course easiest for the class, as they don't have to worship any divinities, their philosophy is kinda open. As long as they revere nature, they're fine.

Nothing wrong with seeing nature everywhere or everything as a part of nature or a logical continuation of the natural cycle. It's not a commonly present angle in D&D since there's so little for Druids to be aligned against otherwise, but I'd say it's fine.


Just don't forget your Wisdom; prioritize it and cram the rest in Int and you should be fine. It's a fine way to build a Druid anyways; get some Con and Dex for your early life and you're fine.

wayfare
2010-09-16, 02:55 PM
Favored Soul, specifically of Kossuth. Kossuth's favored weapon is the spiked chain. You get as class features the following feats:

Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain)
Weapon Focus (spiked chain)
Weapon Specialization (spiked chain)


That seems awesome! Is Kossuth worshipped on Greyhawk?

WarKitty
2010-09-16, 02:56 PM
Thanks for all the advice!

I think I'm going druid. I was wondering if you all might help me out with a some role-playing stuff.

I want to play a Druid who we might call a bit more "scientifically minded." He respects nature, but sees it in everything -- in cities, in the wide open country, even in parched wasteland.

His magic use is also a bit more philosophical -- rather than calling on natures might, he sees his magic as applying his will to natural energies, thus creating "supernatural" effects.

Obviously this requires high intellignce (going with a 15 there). Are any of these ideas counter to being a druid, or is the concept workable?

I don't see an issue. I'd say you'd do well with a NG druid. "Everything, even humanoids, are part of nature. The city-dweller and his house-building are still from nature. It is part of the natural order to impose our own will on nature, whether it be through magical energies or the use of mundane tools. As long as you respect the rest of nature and do not do unnecessary harm, I have no issue."

Gavinfoxx
2010-09-16, 02:56 PM
Thanks for all the advice!

I think I'm going druid. I was wondering if you all might help me out with a some role-playing stuff.

I want to play a Druid who we might call a bit more "scientifically minded." He respects nature, but sees it in everything -- in cities, in the wide open country, even in parched wasteland.

His magic use is also a bit more philosophical -- rather than calling on natures might, he sees his magic as applying his will to natural energies, thus creating "supernatural" effects.

Obviously this requires high intellignce (going with a 15 there). Are any of these ideas counter to being a druid, or is the concept workable?

Well, just call him a 'natural philosopher', and have him talk about the residual natural energies left by fey, plants, animals, elemental creatures, benign natural ghosts, and how the powerful entities that shape those energies require specific rituals to show that they are committed to the cause those natural energies embody, and are required to follow the traditions of those that have shaped those energies in the past; it's not so much you believe in those rituals, that you respect those that have gone before you and the path they have opened...

Darrin
2010-09-16, 03:08 PM
That seems awesome! Is Kossuth worshipped on Greyhawk?

Not particularly (FR-specific.)

However, Tsolorandril (Living Greyhawk Deities v2.0 (http://www.wizards.com/rpga/downloads/LG_Deities.zip) p. 171) has a following on Oearth. Zoser (Sandstorm p. 45) also has spiked chain as a favored weapon, and is not tied to a specific campaign world.

Shenanigans
2010-09-16, 03:10 PM
I think this type of druid is definitely viable. For cities, you see nature in the use of building materials, the pulsing cycle of life within the city. (I'm thinking of some of the flavor conversation on Nar Shadaa in KOTOR 2) With extra Int, you can afford to cram in all kinds of fun flavor skills, which will be even easier if you grab the Able Learner feat. You could even choose an Animal Companion and Wild Shape forms from all types of environments, including cities (dog, cat, rat).

I know there's an Urban Ranger variant in Unearthed Arcana, maybe that could be adapted to an Urban Druid?

Coidzor
2010-09-16, 05:03 PM
Dread Necromancer's skeletons+ Shadow Sun Ninja = unlimited out of combat healing...)

How'd that work?


Some classes that fit the desription:
Favorite Soul (Suffer from slight case of MAD)
Druid
Sprit Shaman (Also suffers from slight case of MAD)

If you can get Dragonlance material though (it's not tied in with the fluff, it just appears in one of the setting books, so YMMV), the 1st level feat Dynamic Priest sets highest spell level castable and extra spells per day to Charisma, which is what both of those MADcasting classes do with Wisdom, IIRC.

Thurbane
2010-09-16, 05:17 PM
I know there's an Urban Ranger variant in Unearthed Arcana, maybe that could be adapted to an Urban Druid?
There's a full Urban Druid class in the Dragon Magazine Compendium.

That seems awesome! Is Kossuth worshipped on Greyhawk?
I'm a huge fan of the Favored Soul...

If you're looking for some tips, here's a thread I started a while back: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152070

Draz74
2010-09-16, 06:10 PM
I want to play a Druid who we might call a bit more "scientifically minded." He respects nature, but sees it in everything -- in cities, in the wide open country, even in parched wasteland.
Curious: How does he feel about undead?


I know there's an Urban Ranger variant in Unearthed Arcana, maybe that could be adapted to an Urban Druid?

Cityscape also has some ACFs for Druids.

Aotrs Commander
2010-09-17, 04:32 AM
How'd that work?

Shadow Sun Ninja's 1st level ability is Touch of the Shadow Sun, which allows you to deals unarmed damage+Wis bonus negative energy damage; which as it itself points out, heals Undead. (And this Shadow Sun Ninja was an Unarmed Swordsage to start with). The next round, you can touch another creature and deal the same amount of positive energy damage. It is supposed to be a kind of stealing-positive-energy-from-the-bad guy and then giving-it-to-your-mate sort of power...right up until Undead enter the equation.

So, slap skeleton, heal skeleton. Six seconds later, slap living person. Infinite out-of-combat healing, with a rate not far removed from Lesser Vigour Wand spam. Of course, to be any (ab)use, you need either a Dread Necromancer (or anyone else) with Tomb-Tainted Soul, or a Dread Necromancer/Pale Master (which is what they had), for free animated Undead every day. (As, of course, the Pale Master's Animate Dead SLA...doesn't have a material cost, since it's a SLA.)

wayfare
2010-09-17, 11:57 AM
Curious: How does he feel about undead?



Cityscape also has some ACFs for Druids.

Depends. If he has Knowledge(the Planes), he might recognize positive and negativ energies as an essential part of the world. Natural undead provbably wouldn't bother him, though those created by spells would trigger his "thou art upsetting the balance" mandatory-druid-thing.

sadly, the Charles Darwin Druid has been nixed by the DM. Any tips on playing a non-traditional druid. I'm thinking of trying to do something similar to the Druids in the Terry Brooks Shanarra Books.

Many thanks, ITPers.

--wayfare

Ruinix
2010-09-17, 04:11 PM
what about warlok with the healing touch attack ???

Greenish
2010-09-17, 04:38 PM
sadly, the Charles Darwin Druid has been nixed by the DM.Aww, it sounded really fun.

If you can gain access to it, ECS has several different druidic sects (with corresponding initiate feats):

Children of Winter: they're sort of social darwinists, and believe that a long winter is coming, which will kill the weaklings and leave only the strongest to rule the world. (Their feat allows a druid to summon vermin with SNA.)
Ashbound: they are firm believers of Rousseau's "back to nature". They abhor arcane casting and civilization, and think that sentient races should live as a part of the nature. (Their feat doubles the duration of SNA.)
Wardens of the Wood: they too believe that sentient species should live in harmony with nature, but are not opposed to civilization and agriculture per se. (Their feat adds climb and jump to druid's skills and a number of defensive spells on their spell list.)
Gatekeepers: they seek to combat the unnatural, namely aberrations, but also undead and outsider, to stem the interplanar influences on the material plane. (Their feat adds Know: the planes and a number of defensive/offensive spells against specific targets.)
Greensingers: they're affiliated with the fey, and often capricious or whimsical. (Their feat adds bluff, hide and perform, as well as a number of enchantment spells.)

Those are, of course, only examples on how druidic worldviews may vary. I often use them as an inspiration for "druidic" flavoured characters even in non-Eberron games.

Coidzor
2010-09-17, 06:57 PM
sadly, the Charles Darwin Druid has been nixed by the DM. Any tips on playing a non-traditional druid.

Well, if he won't allow British Naturalists, how does he feel about French?


I'm thinking of trying to do something similar to the Druids in the Terry Brooks Shanarra Books.

What in particular with the similarities?