[3.5] How often can a Wizard regain his spells?

[Endarire]

Based on my knowledge, a Wizard need only rest/sleep for 8 hours and prepare his spells for 1 hour. So long as he can do this, he regains all his spells every time.

[lsfreak]

They are called "daily" spells numerous times, such as the table of "Spells Per Day." Thus an argument can easily be made that they can get them no more often than every 24 hours, not counting slots that you've left open for preparing later.

It comes down to "daily" versus the section that talks about regaining spells, which mentions only the 8-hour rest, 1-hour prepare. I doubt you'll ever get consensus about the topic.

[tyckspoon]

They are called "daily" spells numerous times, such as the table of "Spells Per Day." Thus an argument can easily be made that they can get them no more often than every 24 hours, not counting slots that you've left open for preparing later.

It comes down to "daily" versus the section that talks about regaining spells, which mentions only the 8-hour rest, 1-hour prepare. I doubt you'll ever get consensus about the topic.

Especially because 'day' is not a D&D-defined term, and there is particularly no given mark for determining when said 'day' ticks over and allows you to prepare a new set of spells. Whereas 8+1 hours is 8+1 hours; you may or may not consider it abusive to allow spells to be refreshed after any given calm 9-hour period, but you don't have to worry about whether or not it's been 24 hours since the last time you did it with that ruling (or setting your adventuring clock around some arbitrary point of time defined as a new day.)

[Morquard]

The more interesting question is, does a Ring of Sustenance reduce the 8 hour sleep requirement to 2 hours as well?

I think its called "daily spells" mainly because its assumed you sleep once per day, but if you want to spend 18 of 24 hours sleeping and prepping spells... sure why not.

If the players start to abuse it, have the second sleep interrupted by ambushes.
Or "You weren't tired enough and woke up after 4 hours, sorry" After all a behaviour like that is gonna mess with your bio-clock and might have pretty nasty concequences for a few nights.

[The_Admiral]

And thus the 10 minute workday came into being

[Gavinfoxx]

Also, whats with the rest vs sleep thing? What about combining Elven Trance, two copies of that bedroll that helps with sleeping, RESTING not sleeping, and a Ring of Sustenance? Can that improve things?

[Morph Bark]

Also, whats with the rest vs sleep thing? What about combining Elven Trance, two copies of that bedroll that helps with sleeping, RESTING not sleeping, and a Ring of Sustenance? Can that improve things?

Where's that bedroll from anyway?

[Coidzor]

Where's that bedroll from anyway?


If your player really wants something like that, Heward's Fortifying Bedroll from Complete Mage does it in 1 hour once every 48 hours for 3000 gp. Given that, the argument that the Ring of Sustenance does this an unlimited number of times per day every 2 hours falls apart.

Also, remind your player that any spells cast in the last 8 hours still count against the total spells per day, even with the Fortifying Bedroll.

Courtesy of the other thread about the rings and things.

[Greenish]

"Can a magician rest several times a day to regain spells?" Lord Wellington asked Strange.
Strange frowned. He seemed to dislike the question. "I suppose a magician might," he admitted, "but a gentleman never could."

-Freely adapted from Susanna Clarke's Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell.

[Aotrs Commander]

We generally play under the assumption that everyone who casts spells/powers gets them back after 8 hours rest. (If it was good enough for Baldur's Gate (et al), it's good enough for us!) Making everyone wait a day doesn't gain us anything. At the level we play, you can expect either fights where the casters will simply sit back and let the fighters do the work, or they'll need to be going flat out against the enemy, who'll be novaing right back. It would make no difference to us, since 99% of the time, it's going to be either "you rest for 8 hours" or "you rest for 24 hours", neither of which adds much if anything to the game. (I rarely run adventures where time is a critical factor, and when I do, it's usually more "dramatic" timing than actual. Like I say, the way we play, most of the time you need the casters in tip-top condition.)

(You might want to bear that in mind, Endarire, for Dragon Mountain! A lot of the encounters, as you'll see, will expect the PCs at nearly top strength. Most of the rest - well, not so much...)

[DonEsteban]

"Can a magician rest several times a day to regain spells?" Lord Wellington asked Strange.
Strange frowned. He seemed to dislike the question. "I suppose a magician might," he admitted, "but a gentleman never could."

-Freely adapted from Susanna Clarke's Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell.
Can I hug your for this, please!? I love it.

[Greenish]

Can I hug your for this, please!?If you must. :smallwink:

[kestrel404]

From over in the Ring of Sustenance thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9367600&postcount=43).

I found a RAW/RAI answer to the question. You may argue with my interpretation, but I think it's pretty clear.

[Shenanigans]

I'm not going to get into the whole Ring of Sustenance thing again, but the way my buddies and I generally play it is that every eight hour period of rest allows spells to refresh. The problem is that we aren't always in a good place for resting, so we take a risk when we do so. This ruling comes in most handy when the party wants to push through the night, or part of the night, to get somewhere in particular (like a town) and then rests partially into the next day, but the night after, rests at the usual time. This flexibility allows for the group to not have to take an extra day to reset their spellcasting rhythms.

Also, we know that if we really abuse this, many glorious ambushes will be released upon us. :D

[Kaww]

In games I run it's one rest/spell preparation during a ~20h period. Not too strict, casters get to prepare them every 18h-22h of adventuring.

They actually do other things in their 'lives', rather then just boom and go to bed... :smalltongue:

[some guy]

"Can a magician rest several times a day to regain spells?" Lord Wellington asked Strange.
Strange frowned. He seemed to dislike the question. "I suppose a magician might," he admitted, "but a gentleman never could."

-Freely adapted from Susanna Clarke's Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell.
Where's the 'like' button in this forum?

[BeholderSlayer]

A wizard, technically, may do this as many times as they can fit in a 24 hour period. It is generally frowned upon, however.

[jmbrown]

I don't believe in the 8 hour rule purely because clerics pick a time of day that's most holy to them which is when they pray for new spells. If the cleric misses his time to pray the moment it first becomes available to him, he has to wait until the next day. This officially makes wizards the most disgusting class hands down.

So in my games I say straight up "A day is 24 hours. Period." I also tell them that time is relative based on the plane you're on. Even though 24 hours on Plane A might be 24 days in Plane B, you still feel like 24 hours have passed spending a day on Plane A. Only in a truly horrific plane where time speeds up and everyone moves at super fast speeds with crazy effects to their metabolism will time alter or change.

[prufock]

Especially because 'day' is not a D&D-defined term, and there is particularly no given mark for determining when said 'day' ticks over and allows you to prepare a new set of spells. Whereas 8+1 hours is 8+1 hours; you may or may not consider it abusive to allow spells to be refreshed after any given calm 9-hour period, but you don't have to worry about whether or not it's been 24 hours since the last time you did it with that ruling (or setting your adventuring clock around some arbitrary point of time defined as a new day.)

"Hour" is defined no better or worse than "day" by RAW.

[Eldonauran]

I don't believe in the 8 hour rule purely because clerics pick a time of day that's most holy to them which is when they pray for new spells. If the cleric misses his time to pray the moment it first becomes available to him, he has to wait until the next day. This officially makes wizards the most disgusting class hands down.

If I recall correctly, a cleric only needs to pray at a certain time of day, if they wish to choose different spells to cast that day. Their spells per day refresh after a rest period as every other spellcaster.

I am away from my books ATM, but the player's handbook has this information.

[Starbuck_II]

I don't believe in the 8 hour rule purely because clerics pick a time of day that's most holy to them which is when they pray for new spells. If the cleric misses his time to pray the moment it first becomes available to him, he has to wait until the next day. This officially makes wizards the most disgusting class hands down.


Actually, even if they miss that time: they can do the next available time. Look:
If some event prevents a character from praying at the proper time, he must do so as soon as possible.

So the only reason you'd not do it is if you didn't want to.

No sleep needed though.

[Zeful]

The more interesting question is, does a Ring of Sustenance reduce the 8 hour sleep requirement to 2 hours as well?No. You need 8 hours of rest. A ring of sustenance gives you the benefit of 8 hours of sleep after only two. Since spell preparation is not linked to sleep, the Ring cannot allow you to spend less time resting to prepare spells.


If the players start to abuse it, have the second sleep interrupted by ambushes.I just have others do their quests for them, netting them nothing but any initial payment (and if the contractor is greedy enough, he might want that back too). No one's willing to wait beyond what they expect it takes to get the job done.

[Emmerask]

"Hour" is defined no better or worse than "day" by RAW.

this :smallsmile:

[Teron]

Recent Casting Limit/Rest Interruptions
If a wizard has cast spells recently, the drain on her resources reduces her capacity to prepare new spells. When she prepares spells for the coming day, all the spells she has cast within the last 8 hours count against her daily limit.


http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#recentCastingLimitRestInterruptio ns

This rule seems pointless, even self-contradictory, if "spells per day" is taken literally.

As for clerics:


Time of Day
A divine spellcaster chooses and prepares spells ahead of time, just as a wizard does. However, a divine spellcaster does not require a period of rest to prepare spells. Instead, the character chooses a particular part of the day to pray and receive spells. The time is usually associated with some daily event. If some event prevents a character from praying at the proper time, he must do so as soon as possible. If the character does not stop to pray for spells at the first opportunity, he must wait until the next day to prepare spells.


http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/divineSpells.htm#preparingDivineSpells

Pretty straightforward, aside from what counts as a valid reason to delay preparation.

[hamishspence]

This rule seems pointless, even self-contradictory, if "spells per day" is taken literally.


I figure it applies when, though 24 hours have passed since you last prepared spells, you've had to take a break in the middle of the night to cast a spell.

So- it works like this. You prepare spells- you cast spells through the day, but still have some left when you start to rest. Part way through the rest period, you are interrupted and must cast spells. You rest for an extra hour.

So- 24 hours have gone by, you've completed your rest, and you've cast some spells at some point in the last 8 hours.

Hence- those spells can't be prepared again- since they count toward the limit.

[2xMachina]

Nova, teleport back home, entertain guests/study/etc, sleep, wake, prepare, teleport, nova?

You don't really need to refresh spells more than once per day.

[Susano-wo]

not relevant to the main point, but though Hour is just as ill defined by RAW, it is better definted by eEnglish, since there is, metaphorical meaings aside, only 1 definition of hour.
But spells per day could be interpreted as a 24hr cycle ,from memorization to memorization, a period starting at midnight, or a period starting at sunrise. I've never even thought about this, though, since usually is just menas get up whenever, prep spells, done.

I would probably take a middle ground. pretty much you can prep it once per solar day, but I wouldn't make someone wait until 24 hrs have passed. For one thing, that effectively makes it less than 1 per day, since it will be pushed back by at least an hour every day, more if sleeping habits change for some reason

Finally, RE Clerics: they have to do it as soon as they are able. Fighting/running for your life? ok, you can do it later. party wants to push on, eh sorry. unless you can ride in a cart or something, you have to meditate for your hour, or skip refreshing spells. (though I would, as GM, allow for divine intervention in cases where the actions taken were in line with the god, such performing good or evil works that would haev been impossible had they meditated first)

[Thinker]

I don't believe in the 8 hour rule purely because clerics pick a time of day that's most holy to them which is when they pray for new spells. If the cleric misses his time to pray the moment it first becomes available to him, he has to wait until the next day. This officially makes wizards the most disgusting class hands down.

So in my games I say straight up "A day is 24 hours. Period." I also tell them that time is relative based on the plane you're on. Even though 24 hours on Plane A might be 24 days in Plane B, you still feel like 24 hours have passed spending a day on Plane A. Only in a truly horrific plane where time speeds up and everyone moves at super fast speeds with crazy effects to their metabolism will time alter or change.

I personally like to make "day" change based on location and time of year. After all, they say that "days" are longer in summer and shorter during winter. I make it so that spells cannot be prepared until after night. On planes where there are no night times, you don't get to prepare spells. This gives me another flavorful way to tone down wizards.

As for clerics, I like to keep them on their toes by changing the time they need to pray to their deity based on a special calendar. If the cleric can succeed on a Knowledge (Religion) check, he can know the appropriate time for that day (and he'd better hope that the time hasn't passed when he makes the check!). I also like to make sure that the DC isn't too easy so I scale it up as they level (starting around DC 20 at level 1 and going up to around 60 at level 20).

Druids need a little bump so I don't put these restrictions on them.

[Susano-wo]

Druids need a little bump so I don't put these restrictions on them.

Yeah. Why would anyone take a Druid to 20....

[Coidzor]

Ahh, the glories of plane shift.