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Paganboy28
2010-09-16, 04:51 AM
With LA for characters, does it apply to both sides of the gestalt?

So if I have a level 6 character, could I be... Pixie Fighter 2//Warlock 6?

Or would it be Pixie Fighter 2//Warlock 2?

Is fighter a good idea? I was considering ranger with bow specialty. That way I can make best use of my sniping ability with my bow and arrows, as well as warlock blasts or invocations.

PinkysBrain
2010-09-16, 05:00 AM
It's outside of the rules, depends purely on the DM.

As for how it should be done, we had a thread discussing that here :
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168405

If you were to use my suggestion you would start with 4 class levels on each side, at level 6 (ECL 8) you could buy off one LA for 7000 XP and at level 9 (ECL 10) you could buy off the last LA for 9000 XP.

No real synergy between warlock and archery though ... also your lackluster strength score and small size makes you a pretty poor archer, you don't get the special arrows as a PC.

In fact you'd be better in melee with an Eldritch Glaive ...

PS. I would drop the SR to 10+class level with my gestalt rules, and especially with LA to one side.

PId6
2010-09-16, 07:39 AM
The most often way I've seen of dealing with LA/RHD in Gestalt is to apply it all to a single side. So, a level 6 pixie fighter//warlock can be either a LA 4/fighter 2//warlock 6 or (much worse) a fighter 6//LA 4/warlock 2, or something similar if you multiclass on the sides.

Fighter is pretty unsynergetic with warlock, though Eldritch Glaive has promise. With pixie's Greater Invisibility, you're better off gestalting with something that has precision damage (like rogue) and firing eldritch blast laced with Sneak Attack rather than arrows.

2xMachina
2010-09-16, 08:14 AM
Scout is also pretty good with it. Keep moving, use eldritch blast for skirmish. Have fun detecting it

Duke of URL
2010-09-16, 08:26 AM
Level adjustment in gestalt is strictly a DM call. I've seen everything from "it applies to both sides" (which I dislike because LA is generally over-costed to begin with) to "apply half of LA to each side (odd LAs make one side higher)" to "apply LA to one side".

My personal preference is that all LA, then all RHD, are applied to a single side. Allowing LA and RHD to apply to opposite sides is also reasonable.

As to your specific pixie... if you're going Warlock, you don't need a bow at all. Stick with your Eldritch Blast, and snipe with that (use Eldritch Spear if you need more than 60' distance). I can see using Fighter for the feats -- it would work much better than Ranger -- but that's for a melee warlock.

Precision damage is somewhat hard to qualify for if you're going ranged (although invisibility helps), but Scout or Rogue could work, if you're relying on movement or stealth, respectively.

You can, of course, apply weapon-specific feats (Weapon Focus, Improved Critical, etc.) to your Eldritch Blast, but, why? They won't help much in the long run (you really want to spend a feat to get +1 on a touch attack?) and most of the Fighter bonus feats simply don't help a sniper. The Ranger combat styles don't help a ranged non-bow user.

Monk is surprisingly strong in gestalt because it provides so many passive abilities. With a pixie's DEX bonuses, you're likely not going to wear armor, and so you can add WIS (+4 racial bonus) to AC as well. Good saves, moderate HD; you don't care about BAB because you're making touch attacks. The movement speed bonus is sweet, because it does apply to your fly speed as well (by the way, nab Flyby Attack as a feat ASAP -- great for hit-and-run).

With all that... I'd suggest: Warlock 6 // LA 4 / Monk 1 / Scout 1

Telonius
2010-09-16, 08:37 AM
Ranger isn't terrible, considering it's full BAB with good Fort and Reflex saves, giving you all good saves. I agree with Duke, precision damage is what you're going to want.

Another way of doing it would be Warlock6 // LA4/Rogue1Swashbuckler1. Take the next two levels Warlock2//Rogue2, take Daring Outlaw at level 9, then Warlock/Swash the rest of the way out. You'll have a better attack bonus, Grace will shore up your Reflex save; free Weapon Finesse; Insightful Strike at Swash3 will give you Int to damage; Oodles of skill points and class skills from Rogue; Evasion; Sneak Attack to your Eldritch Blast.

EDIT: If you DM is willing, a level of Binder on the LA side of the gestalt and some Hellfire Warlock on the other would really improve your power.

Duke of URL
2010-09-16, 08:47 AM
Another way of doing it would be Warlock6 // LA4/Rogue2. Take the next two levels Warlock2//Rogue1Swashbuckler1, take Daring Outlaw, then Warlock/Swash the rest of the way out.

I find "multiclassing feats" to be cheesy in gestalt, on par with "dual progression" PrCs.

The main problem with Sneak Attack is that anything that can see invisible foils it. So if going that route, find a way to qualify for Shadowdancer to get Hide in Plain Sight. Seeing invisible doesn't foil mundane hiding, and a pixie will be good at that (size, DEX). With my suggestion to take monk, I'd say go two levels with the Cobra Strike style to get two of the 3 needed feats (Dodge, Mobility) as Monk bonus feats. Monk 2 also gives Evasion, so if pairing it with Rogue or Scout, see if you can get an ACF for Evasion there (maybe even Improved Evasion).

PId6
2010-09-16, 09:41 AM
If See Invisibility is a problem, see if you can buy a wand of Fog Cloud with the Invisible Spell metamagic applied (it's a +0 adjustment, so it shouldn't cost any extra). Just UMD that baby, and anyone able to see invisible things will be in for an unpleasant surprise.

Paganboy28
2010-09-16, 11:56 AM
Meh. The DM is not entirely sure that a PC with Greater Invisibility at will is a good idea and so may nerf it to just invisibility instead.

Surely that would reduce the LA....

Is taking Otto's Irresistable Dance 1/day worth it?


The Hellfire warlock binder cheese I know about and have used on alternative characters and want something different from my usual "mwhwha I am evil demonic blaster".

I was thinking of Unseelie fae sniper sorts. The reason for the bow is themetic if nothing else plus having a quiver of special arrows sounds fun.

As an interesting alternative, not sure how feasible it is but what about something like Artificer to make those uber arrows o'death?

The idea of having a pixie wielding a normal two-handed sword also has appeal though I doubt it works in reality.


Eldritch blast would be my mainstay attack with specialised arrows for sniping or other stuff that is resistant to magic or such.

Scout sounds interesting as an option. Rogue was another choice I was thinking of but again I have been warlock/rogue combo before.

Warlock//Spell-thief?

Warlock//Sorcerer?

Warlock//beguiler?

Telonius
2010-09-16, 12:15 PM
Hmmm... got an idea, but you'd have to be LE.

Warlock//LA/Fighter/Kensai

Signature Weapon is Ray.

Would that work, RAW? :smallconfused: Piggybacking weapon enhancements onto a ray, I mean. I know you can take Weapon Focus on rays, and Kensai only says the signature weapon has to be the one you took Weapon Focus for. If it works, you could add quite a few d6's to your Eldritch Blast. The Kensai stuff is always on, too, so no worries about even meeting movement requirements.

If Ray doesn't work, you can do Signature Weapon as Bow.

PinkysBrain
2010-09-16, 01:45 PM
Meh. The DM is not entirely sure that a PC with Greater Invisibility at will is a good idea and so may nerf it to just invisibility instead.

Surely that would reduce the LA....
Has he said how he would apply LA yet?

Is taking Otto's Irresistable Dance 1/day worth it?
No, regardless.

As an interesting alternative, not sure how feasible it is but what about something like Artificer to make those uber arrows o'death?
Artificers can do anything (better).

The idea of having a pixie wielding a normal two-handed sword also has appeal though I doubt it works in reality.
Anything can be made to work, especially in gestalt ... although you would have to give up on warlock to make this work.

tenshiakodo
2010-09-16, 02:00 PM
I'm not sure if you care, but another thing to consider is BAB and skill points. I really like Ranger in gestalt builds for the simple fact that it gets full BAB and 6+Int skill points; there's a whole slew of classes that are greatly improved by this simple fact.

In addition, you're suffering from an LA deficit, so you need all the full BAB you can get. I further offer up Ranger because of the excellent options presented to the class in Unearthed Arcana and Dungeonscape.

Trading a bonus Track Feat for Rogue Trapfinding just adds all kinds of win to the Ranger alone, let alone Wild Shape shenanigans.

Artificer/Ranger would be a scary gestalt; you can easily crank out magical arrows of all kinds, even nasty spell storing arrows. Alternately, you could take the Two Weapon Fighting style and jump up to Double Wand Wielder and make your DM cry.

And if you really want to mix it up in melee, imagine dual wielding wands of Flame Blade!

Icewraith
2010-09-16, 02:29 PM
If you're considering one of the combo feats, instead of daring outlaw may I suggest swift hunter and a Ranger base +1 level of scout?

This will get you favored enemy and skirmish equal to your ranger+scout class level, so you can advance the ranged full BAB and good fort/ref. It also allows you to bypass precision damage conditions for skirmish when targeting favored enemies. So you can pick up, say, favored enemy oozes, undead, constructs and elementals (plants at epic due to the pixie RHd/LA) and get your skirmish damage to almost everything you hit with your eldritch blast. Move+ snipe, at higher warlock levels drop Chilling Tentacles or Freezing Fog (Complete Mage) and THEN snipe.

If you want a Pixie wielding a large weapon for lols, get all three levels of Titan Bloodline. At higher level, you can wield a Gargantuan Warhammer without penalty!

2xMachina
2010-09-16, 02:37 PM
"I'm an animated Gargantuan Warhammer!

PId6
2010-09-16, 03:22 PM
Meh. The DM is not entirely sure that a PC with Greater Invisibility at will is a good idea and so may nerf it to just invisibility instead.

Surely that would reduce the LA....
The only reason Pixie can ever be worth LA +4 is the Greater Invisibility (and even then, not really). If it's just Invisibility, then it should definitely go down to LA +2 at worst. Don't take it if he wouldn't do at least that.


Is taking Otto's Irresistable Dance 1/day worth it?
Never.