Serenity - Operative ending

[Avilan the Grey]

...So, I watched Serenity again and I am always amazed that so few people pick up the Operative's parting words.

What I mean is that I have seen on several pages and forums (including TV tropes) all kind of things about the movie, and the Operative, but nobody seems to realize what I considers blatantly clear:

The Operative is informing Mal that he will kill himself after Serenity takes off.
The wording of his response to Mal telling him he will kill him himself if he sees him again "You won't. There is noting more to see" is to me very clear.

Am I really the only one who believes this is what he means?

[MammonAzrael]

I agree that this is probably what he means. But it never seemed worth really pointing out because it is so completely in character for him. It fits, and it has plenty of backing in the movie. So...*shrug*...I just kinda figured "ok, that makes sense for his character."

I do think it may have gone over Mal's head, but he didn't seen as much of the Operative as we did.

[Avilan the Grey]

I agree that this is probably what he means. But it never seemed worth really pointing out because it is so completely in character for him. It fits, and it has plenty of backing in the movie. So...*shrug*...I just kinda figured "ok, that makes sense for his character."

I do think it may have gone over Mal's head, but he didn't seen as much of the Operative as we did.

Glad to hear I am not the only one.

The problem I am having is that there is so many people that gush over the movie, and how cool (but monstrous) the Operative is, etc, but takes the last quote as if he is going to go into hiding or something.

[blueblade]

I can explain. You see, listening to anything from Chiwetel Ejiofor sounds so noble and wise that your mind instinctively blanks out the fact that he is openly discussing his plans to commit suicide.

[Math_Mage]

The exact quotation is "There is nothing left to see." The Operative is already dead. Whatever happens to the man that was formerly the Operative is irrelevant. So it may indicate suicide, or it may not. Whedon's being nicely ambiguous about the whole thing.

[factotum]

I'm with Math_Mage on this one; the meaning is not as straightforward as you think. The Operative was saying that this entity known as the Operative no longer existed, because he'd lost the entire purpose of his life; he might well then have gone on to commit suicide, but it's not a given by any means.

[pendell]

I think you're missing the other part as well. The Operative said more than that. He also asked Mal how you go on living when you've lost what you believe in.

Mal's response is not helpful.

I don't think the Operative is saying he'll commit physical suicide. What he's saying is that he, like Mal, has lost what he believed in.

Remember what Book said about operatives: They believe hard. The man formerly known as the Operative doesn't, anymore.

So what does that mean?

Many of the main characters lost their childhood faith, one way or the other.

We don't know what Shepherd Book's past was, but he lost something, and in place of that vanished faith he found a God to believe in.

Mal believed in Independence and he believed in God. He lost that faith at Serenity Valley. Since then he's found faith in his ship, his crew, and himself.

What will the former Operative do? Will he kill himself physically out of despair? Will he undergo a religious conversion and become a shepherd? Will he go reaver? Will he become an underworld criminal like Fanty and Mingo? Will he sign on with a ship and crew much like Mal's, a mysterious figure with a past he doesn't talk about?

If he disappears at the end of the movie, would he reappear as an ally or an antagonist in season 3?

We'll never know these things, becuase the blasted suits cancelled the show. DOGGONE IT!

But in any case, "loss of faith" doesn't necessarily equate to "physical death". He's already dead. The question remains: Will he die physically also, or will he reinvent himself, undergo metaphorical resurrection?

An open-ended question to which, alas, there can be no answer.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Axolotl]

Glad to hear I am not the only one.

The problem I am having is that there is so many people that gush over the movie, and how cool (but monstrous) the Operative is, etc, but takes the last quote as if he is going to go into hiding or something.Firefly fans not accepting that something is obviously dead? Surely not.

[mangosta71]

We don't know what Shepherd Book's past was, but he lost something, and in place of that vanished faith he found a God to believe in.

It seemed fairly clear to me that Book is a former operative. Perhaps The Operative will follow the same path.

[chiasaur11]

Firefly fans not accepting that something is obviously dead? Surely not.

That's not all their fault, considering how hard every other piece of media in existence has drilled "not dead until you see the body" into our meat brains.

[Hopeless]

That's not all their fault, considering how hard every other piece of media in existence has drilled "not dead until you see the body" into our meat brains.

And given the propensity of some not even then!!!

And yes I still don't understand why they cancelled this before it even aired its last episode!

Same goes for the Dresden Files and not even going beyond the pilot for Global Frequency!

Still I didn't notice that comment regarding the operative's future mind you, an interesting idea... pity we won't find out what he actually meant!

Well perhaps I should have said maybe never!

There is talk about a revealing comic on Book's past after all!

[VanBuren]

That's not all their fault, considering how hard every other piece of media in existence has drilled "not dead until you see the body" into our meat brains.

I think that was a jibe at the series itself. As in, Firefly fans not being able to accept that [Firefly] is obviously dead.

[Flame of Anor]

I think that was a jibe at the series itself. As in, Firefly fans not being able to accept that [Firefly] is obviously dead.

FIREFLY IS NOT--

Aw, heck, what's the use?

*sobs quietly*

[chiasaur11]

FIREFLY IS NOT--

Aw, heck, what's the use?

*sobs quietly*

There's still the occasional comic?

[Platinum_Mongoose]

No no no, the Operative gets in his TARDIS, goes back in time a few years, then "wanders" up to a ship in the Eavesdown Docks. When the girl out in front gives her pitch, he introduces himself. "Book. I'm called Book," he says...

How is that not clear?

[Flame of Anor]

No no no, the Operative gets in his TARDIS, goes back in time a few years, then "wanders" up to a ship in the Eavesdown Docks. When the girl out in front gives her pitch, he introduces himself. "Book. I'm called Book," he says...

How is that not clear?

You forgot that he must have killed himself after all, because how besides regeneration could he get a different face? :smallwink:

[Platinum_Mongoose]

You forgot that he must have killed himself after all, because how besides regeneration could he get a different face? :smallwink:

Meh, he just aged some. Side effect of casting. Suspend disbelief. (Because really, what makes more sense?)

[Math_Mage]

Meh, he just aged some. Side effect of casting. Suspend disbelief. (Because really, what makes more sense?)

How about Book being a predecessor of the Operative? You lose the time travel, the unrealistic interaction with Mal, etc.

[Asthix]

If I remember correctly, the 3rd comic about Book was all set to move into printing when the 'great recession' hit and viola, no Book book. :smallannoyed: Unknown at this time if Whedon will ressurrect it.

I had a different take on the end of the movie after watching it several times. Committing seppuku is a fitting assumption considering the operative uses a sword, the culture has a strong Asian legacy.

But I think American heritage would win out on this one and the Alliance would just hire a hitman to take him out. Or send the blue hands. I took his words to mean, "They are so not going to let me live."

[mangosta71]

Seppukku is Japanese, and the culture has strong Chinese influence. The two are not the same, and anyone from either of those countries will hurt you if you try to imply that they are.

However, it's conceivable that his plan is to commit suicide after Serenity takes off. Or that he'll allow Alliance agents to find and kill him (essentially suicide by someone else's hand). Or, given his skillset, he could easily disappear and arrange one of those "never seen again" things we always hear about. You can make yourself pretty unrecognizable by growing a beard, changing your hair, getting a scar or two, changing your wardrobe...

[Nerd-o-rama]

Regardless of the predominant Chinese setting, the Operative has a definite samurai theme to him, which is why honorable suicide seems such a clear implication - the sword, the waxing poetic about honorable death, the absolute dedication to his leaders beyond any personal morality, etc. Never mind the long association between Samurai films and Westerns, which Firefly is even if Serenity isn't.

However, I didn't get a definite sense of impending suicide from the idea. It's implied, definitely, but he could just be planning, rather sensibly, to completely disappear and drop off the grid so that he doesn't get assassinated by another Parliament Operative. I could see either being the case.

[Thufir]

If I remember correctly, the 3rd comic about Book was all set to move into printing when the 'great recession' hit and viola, no Book book. :smallannoyed: Unknown at this time if Whedon will ressurrect it.

Actually, it's coming out in November. (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=25133)

[Asthix]

Ooh! Shiny! I never knew his name was Derrial. Now I know what to get myself for Christmas.

Also a one shot by Patton Oswalt in June?! It will be great, but i just hope that half the text isn't Chinese swear words.

[jmbrown]

Seppukku is Japanese, and the culture has strong Chinese influence. The two are not the same, and anyone from either of those countries will hurt you if you try to imply that they are.

However, it's conceivable that his plan is to commit suicide after Serenity takes off. Or that he'll allow Alliance agents to find and kill him (essentially suicide by someone else's hand). Or, given his skillset, he could easily disappear and arrange one of those "never seen again" things we always hear about. You can make yourself pretty unrecognizable by growing a beard, changing your hair, getting a scar or two, changing your wardrobe...

Falling on one's sword is Roman in origin and I remember him specifically quoting that plus it's part of his "theme" so there ya go. My point being that whatever origin ritualistic suicide is it's still suicide.

I'm in the group who says "He ain't dead 'til we see a body that's lit on fire, burnt to ashes, the ashes drank, crapped out, stuffed in a rocket, and sent to the sun where we see the entire pathway and know the rocket completely burns up in the process." It's just like that bounty hunter from the show's last episode.

Well... here I am.

[mangosta71]

Jubal Early was a great character. Wish we'd gotten to see more of him.

[pendell]

The thing about honorable suicide is the question to what extent the former Operative still buys into that ethos. He's suffered a crisis of faith and of conscience. Does he still believe that stuff about 'older, more civilized cultures' that he said at the beginning of the movie? Or is he now at the point where he doesn't know either what's worth living for or dying for?

'Suicide' is indeed a possible option, but I'm not convinced that's what he's planning. At this stage. I think he needs to sort himself out first, before either re-inventing himself or commiting suicide. The only thing certain is that his past life as an Operative is Over. Finished. Done. What comes after is still up in the air.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Zen Monkey]

I took the operative's words to be about a loss of identity. His whole being was about faith in and dedication to a particular set of ideals. When all that he had lived for came crashing down, there was nothing left of that person that was once 'him.' To him, there is nothing of that past self left to see and if he is to keep living he will have to build a new man that he will become.

And it has been confirmed that Book used to be an operative (to the extent that you take author remarks about plots that never made it to episodes as canon). He actually took his name from a man he killed, but it's never been said what his real name was.

[Platinum_Mongoose]

How about Book being a predecessor of the Operative? You lose the time travel, the unrealistic interaction with Mal, etc.

Lose time travel? That's crazy talk.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Its important to note that while the Operative is standing in darkness, Mal is standing in light.

This represents that he's nothing, he's lost his belief system and is only a shadow. That is what he means when he says "their is nothing left to see"

The operatives belief system would dictate suicide, but the operative is gone everything he was is gone.

Also if he was telling Mal "I'm going to kill myself" I think that have been mentioned in the directors commentary, like how Mal's conversation with Zoe about the ship at the end of the film is really about her.

[Nerd-o-rama]

like how Mal's conversation with Zoe about the ship at the end of the film is really about her.

Except that was so obvious it doesn't really require explaining, and I'm surprised they'd even bother to point it out on the commentary.

[VanBuren]

Crazy thought here, what if all of these theories are legitimate interpretations of a conversation that was left intentionally ambiguous?

[Sholos]

Except that was so obvious it doesn't really require explaining, and I'm surprised they'd even bother to point it out on the commentary.

Interesting point of fact: Nathan Fillion was totally oblivious to the fact that the conversation was about Zoe at the time of filming.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Interesting point of fact: Nathan Fillion was totally oblivious to the fact that the conversation was about Zoe at the time of filming.

...is he just used to Whedon dialog having quirkiness in place of subtext, maybe? Well, non-sexual subtext.

[pendell]

Also if he was telling Mal "I'm going to kill myself" I think that have been mentioned in the directors commentary, like how Mal's conversation with Zoe about the ship at the end of the film is really about her.

Wait, wait, wait. You're talking about the monologue at the end where he's talking about love being what makes a ship fly?

I could have sworn he was talking to River Tam, not Zoe.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Thufir]

Wait, wait, wait. You're talking about the monologue at the end where he's talking about love being what makes a ship fly?

I could have sworn he was talking to River Tam, not Zoe.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

No, he's talking about the conversation Mal has with Zoe immediately after the one with the Operative which this thread is about.

"She's tore up plenty, but she'll fly true."

[JohnOfOrdo3]

No, he's talking about the conversation Mal has with Zoe immediately after the one with the Operative which this thread is about.



Oh god, I didn't realise that until now!

This calls for rewatching Serenity, which is never a bad plan :smallcool:

[monomer]

...is he just used to Whedon dialog having quirkiness in place of subtext, maybe? Well, non-sexual subtext.

It could also be that since movies aren't filmed in a linear fashion, that the context of Zoey's loss was not at the forethought at time it was filmed.

[Sholos]

It could also be that since movies aren't filmed in a linear fashion, that the context of Zoey's loss was not at the forethought at time it was filmed.

Possibly, but everyone else got the subtext. It was just Fillion that didn't.