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Ultimate Dragon
2010-09-17, 03:11 PM
Ok, we all know Haley just joined the church of Thor, but to Convert she will have to have had a religion before that. considering she already quit the church of Banjo, what could Haley's old religion have been? (wow, I just realized that sounded like a story problem from a math text book |D )
JoeSkull
2010-09-17, 03:24 PM
Ok, we all know Haley just joined the church of Thor, but to Convert she will have to have had a religion before that. considering she already quit the church of Banjo, what could Haley's old religion have been? (wow, I just realized that sounded like a story problem from a math text book |D )

probably just a generic Pantheon, like Roy.
Cisturn
2010-09-17, 03:41 PM
pantheon, a generic pantheon
Nimrod's Son
2010-09-17, 03:42 PM
probably just a generic Parthenon
I hear they have one of those in Nashville.
Draconi Redfir
2010-09-17, 03:49 PM
maby she was aithiest?
AtlanteanTroll
2010-09-17, 04:06 PM
Maybe it doesn't matter. Its a joke anyway.
JoeSkull
2010-09-17, 04:15 PM
pantheon, a generic pantheon

dam spell check
Coidzor
2010-09-17, 04:25 PM
Maybe it doesn't matter. Its a joke anyway.

Well, yes, but, how does one convert? If it's just by saying you do so, maybe she is.

Fortunately this is not as bad as FR as far as we can tell. So it doesn't really have any real bearing or applicability to have one god or another as patron.
Morquard
2010-09-17, 04:29 PM
Haley doesn't strike me as the religious type, so it was most lilkely a "if I don't insult them too much, they won't piss on me" relationship to the gods. Maybe with the obligatory prayers to the god of thieves in times of need.
apenpaap
2010-09-17, 04:30 PM
maby she was aithiest?

Aithy, aithier, aithiest?
derfenrirwolv
2010-09-17, 04:42 PM
Hmmm.. Haley and elan live, have a bunch of kids and grow old together.

Haley dies old and in her bed surrounded by family... and gets sent to hel because she's technically a worshiper of Thor and didn't fall in battle.
Gray Mage
2010-09-17, 04:46 PM
Hmmm.. Haley and elan live, have a bunch of kids and grow old together.

Haley dies old and in her bed surrounded by family... and gets sent to hel because she's technically a worshiper of Thor.

Except that she isn't really a worshiper of Thor. She lied about being a worshiper of Thor and got hammered (almost twice actually). If being drunk is that's needed for changing religion, I believe that Thor would be the god with the biggest number of followers.
Rae Artemi
2010-09-17, 04:47 PM
Hmmm.. Haley and elan live, have a bunch of kids and grow old together.

Haley dies old and in her bed surrounded by family... and gets sent to hel because she's technically a worshiper of Thor.

But Thor is Neutral good. :smallconfused:
Themrys
2010-09-17, 04:50 PM
Hmmm.. Haley and elan live, have a bunch of kids and grow old together.

Haley dies old and in her bed surrounded by family... and gets sent to hel because she's technically a worshiper of Thor.

I think that was only for men, back then in real life. Don't know how it is in OOTS, though.

@Rae Artemi: Yes, but worshippers of Thor who die in bed go to Hel. That's what Durkon believes. Interesting point...if Thor isn't lawful, how can a rule that applies only to his worshippers and has nothing to do with alignment, make his worshippers go to Hel?
Gray Mage
2010-09-17, 04:50 PM
But Thor is Neutral good. :smallconfused:

He meant because the worshipers of Thor, or at least the dwarven ones, must die in combat or of liver failure from drinking in order to go to the good afterlife. Not that the later isn't possible considering how much she'll need to drink to forget being out-logicked by Elan.
Gift Jeraff
2010-09-17, 05:08 PM
It would be interesting if she was a loose follower of Loki,* considering that seems to be the main religion of Greysky City. (Yeah, she ain't evil, but that doesn't prevent anything.) But general Northern pantheon seems the most likely.


@Rae Artemi: Yes, but worshippers of Thor who die in bed go to Hel. That's what Durkon believes. Interesting point...if Thor isn't lawful, how can a rule that applies only to his worshippers and has nothing to do with alignment, make his worshippers go to Hel?

I got the impression that it went for all dwarves, Thor or not.


But Thor is Neutral good.
Not that it detracts from your point, but says who? I thought the general consensus was that he's Chaotic Good and the one-step-away rule for clerics is different in OOTS (or maybe just a special exception for dwarves and Thor).

*Speaking of which, isn't "Ian is/descended from Loki" one of the "Haley isn't human!" theories?
Themrys
2010-09-17, 05:20 PM
I got the impression that it went for all dwarves, Thor or not.


That's probably because all dwarves are normally worshippers of that pantheon. And there is only one afterlife per pantheon, as far as I know. That only works in real life history, of course. When you start to believe that there are other gods who are gods (not demons) as well, the whole thing becomes complicated.

How does that work in D&D? Is alignment the only thing that matters?
Kish
2010-09-17, 05:25 PM
That's probably because all dwarves are normally worshippers of that pantheon. And there is only one afterlife per pantheon, as far as I know. That only works in real life history, of course. When you start to believe that there are other gods who are gods (not demons) as well, the whole thing becomes complicated.

How does that work in D&D? Is alignment the only thing that matters?
In D&D, it varies by campaign setting.

In OotS, as established by Durkon and Malack's recent discussion, humans and lizardfolk go to the afterlife that matches their alignment, as do those dwarves who die with honor. Other dwarves are lumped together and sent to Hel's plane. Whether dwarves like Hilgya can "opt out" of this and be treated as humans if they've sufficiently distanced themselves from dwarven society is up in the air, as if there is any such escape clause, Durkon is real unlikely to acknowledge it.
Dr.Epic
2010-09-17, 05:29 PM
All I know is a drunken, Thor-worshipping Haley is a major character improvement. I don't even mind her short hair so long as this continues.
derfenrirwolv
2010-09-17, 06:40 PM
I think Thor is so chaotic he simply doesn't bother to follow the rule.
Dr.Epic
2010-09-17, 06:42 PM
I think Thor is so chaotic he simply doesn't bother to follow the rule.

You might be confusing chaos with intoxicated.
NerfTW
2010-09-17, 07:18 PM
probably just a generic Pantheon, like Roy.

Roy worships the Northern gods (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0486.html), the same as Durkon. By extension, Haley most likely worships a Northern god as well. Thor appears to be specific to the Dwarves, so maybe it's more like switching from one god in the pantheon to another.


maby she was aithiest?

Agnostic maybe. But atheism in a world where you can actually physically talk to the gods and prove that they exist is like insisting the world is flat while looking at it from outer space. It requires rejecting reality. It would be like having a character insist magic isn't real. (Paging Mr. Fantastic from that one Fantastic Four story...)
Klose_the_Sith
2010-09-17, 07:38 PM
Agnostic maybe. But atheism in a world where you can actually physically talk to the gods and prove that they exist is like insisting the world is flat while looking at it from outer space. It requires rejecting reality. It would be like having a character insist magic isn't real. (Paging Mr. Fantastic from that one Fantastic Four story...)

I'm not sure even Agnostic is possible, doesn't that mean you think that there might be a God? Cause there is indeed a God. Look at him go!

Atheism would definitely be impossible, though.

Maybe she was just a heretic? :smallamused:
Kish
2010-09-17, 07:58 PM
Agnostic maybe. But atheism in a world where you can actually physically talk to the gods and prove that they exist is like insisting the world is flat while looking at it from outer space. It requires rejecting reality. It would be like having a character insist magic isn't real. (Paging Mr. Fantastic from that one Fantastic Four story...)
Acknowledging the existence of the gods doesn't require worshiping them...or considering them to have any more moral standing than the same number of mortals. There exists at least one definition of atheism which is ruled out by the first, but multiple other definitions of atheism which would be met by doing the first but not doing the second or third.

And that's as much as I'm saying on this subject, and hopefully not too much.
Morquard
2010-09-17, 08:51 PM
I'm not sure even Agnostic is possible, doesn't that mean you think that there might be a God? Cause there is indeed a God. Look at him go!

Yep, Agnosticism is basicly "God may or may not exist, but we can't proof it one way or the other, because of the very nature of the question"
In OotS-verse they can however proof very much that they exist.

I think her attitude was pretty much like Roy explains it here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0490.html)
Bongos
2010-09-17, 10:08 PM
a worshiper at the altar of greed?
Dr.Epic
2010-09-18, 12:31 AM
a worshiper at the altar of greed?

That weird bird deity Thief from 8-bit theatre met during his near death experience?
Prospekt
2010-09-18, 02:24 AM
Y'know, one of the skills in D&D is called "Bluff". Just saying.
TreesOfDeath
2010-09-18, 04:13 AM
Naytheist, belief in the gods, but not worship. Probably the occainsal prayer to the god of theives
SoC175
2010-09-18, 09:07 AM
I think Thor is so chaotic he simply doesn't bother to follow the rule.
Hel might insinst on it nonetheless
Kish
2010-09-18, 09:17 AM
Hel might insinst on it nonetheless
I think you're misreading who belongs to Hel. If Durkon dies in his bed of fever, he belongs to Hel. If he dies in battle, wherever he's going, she has nothing to do with it.

In either case, she has no reason to care who he worships or if he worships anyone at all.
Dr.Epic
2010-09-18, 09:44 PM
Hmmm.. Haley and elan live, have a bunch of kids and grow old together.

Haley dies old and in her bed surrounded by family... and gets sent to hel because she's technically a worshiper of Thor and didn't fall in battle.

Who's to say Durkon just doesn't get so infuriated at her, pulls a Miko, and slays Haley in cold blood?
Gift Jeraff
2010-09-18, 09:55 PM
Roy worships the Northern gods (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0486.html), the same as Durkon.
I think they knew that, but by "generic pantheon" meant that Haley, like Roy, only very loosely worships the Northern gods as a whole.

I hope this doesn't go against the rules, but would going from a loose interpretation of a religion to a specific sect of the same religion count as a conversion?
137beth
2010-09-18, 10:00 PM
Haley didn't really convert, she is just pretending to have converted, and is lying about it to Durkon as well. She DOES have max ranks in Bluff.
Dr.Epic
2010-09-18, 11:11 PM
She DOES have max ranks in Bluff.

Stated where?
Zevox
2010-09-18, 11:19 PM
Stated where?
Panel 7 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0412.html).

Zevox
Knaight
2010-09-22, 09:10 AM
Aithy, aithier, aithiest?

I'm athier than all of you put together!:smalltongue:

More seriously, Haley seems ambivalent towards religion in the comic, generic pantheon worship or no real thought towards the divine seems the most likely.
Swordpriest
2010-09-22, 11:20 AM
Yes, there are a lot of people like that -- religious (in the sense of believing in a religion) but not pious (that is, dedicated to worship and attempting to live up closely to their religion's principles). The fact that our language can distinguish between the shades of religiosity is a tacit acknowledgement of this situation, methinks.

However, I'd say that Durkon is danged unlikely to "pull a Miko" -- his personality is totally different, and he really likes Haley, so I think stern remonstrance is about as far as it's likely to go.