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Dsurion
2010-09-17, 05:41 PM
I've never played a pure magic character before. I usually go for a stealth-based class or other skill-monkey, but I thought I'd give something else a try. My concept is something like a theatric character attempting to fool and harass the opponents, so naturally, I thought of Illusion and Enchantment schools, and I like the versatility of the sorcerer at a moment's notice for these types of spells.

But I have no idea what types of spells to take, or even good feats to use. I don't really want to deal with the hassle of a really optimized character, especially when I'm just taking up the reigns for the first time, just a few suggestions. I don't own any books outside of the core three, but I could get my hands on a copy of most others if they're worth the effort. I also don't really expect our campaign to go anywhere beyond 5th level, if it helps.

Would anyone be willing to offer a word or two of advice?

Greymane
2010-09-17, 05:48 PM
Do you have access to the Players Handbook II? Because if so, Beguiler is EXACTLY what you're looking for.

Edit: I'm a blind, blind man.

Well, if you're lookin' to ease into the role, I might recommend Sorcerer. Less book-keeping to worry about, and you can pick up a lot of the good spells with ease.

The-Mage-King
2010-09-17, 05:50 PM
Try a Beguiler, PHB II.

They can cast any spell on their (pretty good) list if they have the slot, and you'll be able to try the fun of a caster while still staying partially in the Skill Monkey role.

EDIT: Ninja'd.

Starbuck_II
2010-09-17, 05:55 PM
I've never played a pure magic character before. I usually go for a stealth-based class or other skill-monkey, but I thought I'd give something else a try. My concept is something like a theatric character attempting to fool and harass the opponents, so naturally, I thought of Illusion and Enchantment schools, and I like the versatility of the sorcerer at a moment's notice for these types of spells.

But I have no idea what types of spells to take, or even good feats to use. I don't really want to deal with the hassle of a really optimized character, especially when I'm just taking up the reigns for the first time, just a few suggestions. I don't own any books outside of the core three, but I could get my hands on a copy of most others if they're worth the effort. I also don't really expect our campaign to go anywhere beyond 5th level, if it helps.

Would anyone be willing to offer a word or two of advice?

Tasha's Hideouds Laughter is great, but not humanoids (if you are a humanoid) get +4 saves (like a dragon) because humor doesn't transfer across types.
It is like Hold person, but no save every round (ande can't coup de grac them)

Gavinfoxx
2010-09-17, 06:03 PM
It is worth the effort to track down the Player's Handbook II, even though you don't currently have it.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2322

Also, you will want Complete Scoundrel, for skill tricks (Conceal Spellcasting!)

A few other books are good, based on that guide, including Complete Mage, Player's Guide to Faerun, Lords of Madness, Complete Divine, Drow of the Underdark, Cityscape, Magic of Incarnum, Underdark, Spell Compendium (most of your advanced learning spells will come from here), Magic Item Compendium, Tome of Magic, Races of Stone, etc.

Basically, read, digest, and read the many links that the handbook links you to.

Amphetryon
2010-09-17, 06:07 PM
if beguiler isn't doing it for you, get ahold of Complete Mage. Sorcerer/Wild Soul can do the job you're after pretty well.

Dsurion
2010-09-17, 06:07 PM
Hmm, that class does actually look pretty interesting. I might look into one of those instead...

Has anyone used a Beguiler to any appreciable effect before, then?

BeholderSlayer
2010-09-17, 06:09 PM
Hmm, that class does actually look pretty interesting. I might look into one of those instead...

Has anyone used a Beguiler to any appreciable effect before, then?

Beguilers are pretty good. They are very versatile and have a lot going for them...INT based spontaneous casting being the big one.

It sounds like a beguiler would be exactly what you're looking for, to me. Plus you can double as your favorite achetype, and still have a lot of useful skills and stealth.

JonRG
2010-09-17, 06:20 PM
Has anyone used a Beguiler to any appreciable effect before, then?

My beguiler with a one-level mindbender dip actually managed some pretty awesome stuff. I had a dragon charmed until a bad Prismatic Spray roll turned him to stone :smallfrown:, plus I could use my telepathy to act as the party switchboard when our druid shapeshifted or we had to be quiet. One player was semi-unnerved (I was CN :smallbiggrin:) and would usually make the point, once a session or so, that "I am never going to mess with her." The versatility with spell slots is wonderful and you get 6 + Int (primary stat) skillpoints as opposed to 2 + Int (meh stat).

Though, I have to warn. If you're going to go up against a lot of mindless creatures, you may find yourself with little to do (or maybe I just missed some things on the spell list). :smallyuk:

thubby
2010-09-17, 06:26 PM
shadow conjuration/evocation add a LOT of utility to a sorcerer's limited spell list. just don't use them for pure blasting.

color spray is amazing, even at high level being able to stun people on demand is good.

Dsurion
2010-09-17, 06:30 PM
This actually turned out to be even better than what I was going to try. Guess I'll work on getting the PHB II for this. Thanks to everyone for their input! Cheers!

DragoonWraith
2010-09-17, 07:21 PM
Beguilers are awesome. Heartily recommended. Extremely newb friendly, too, which is always nice.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-09-17, 09:29 PM
Beguilers are, indeed, made of win. However, if you cannot gain possession over a PhB II, may I humbly suggest Bard? Illusion and Enchantment, right? That's pretty much a description of most of the Bard's spell list. Plus party buffing (Inspire Courage), plus being able to annoy the party with trivia such as what the average rainfall of the city you are desperately running from is.

JeminiZero
2010-09-17, 10:17 PM
Though, I have to warn. If you're going to go up against a lot of mindless creatures, you may find yourself with little to do (or maybe I just missed some things on the spell list). :smallyuk:

Even against mindless creatures, Beguilers still have some options:

Glitterdust, Slow, Legion of Sentinels, Solid Fog: All work as well against mindless foes as they do against normal foes.
Haste, Displacement, Invisibility (Normal and Greater): Buffs for your allies.
Silent/Minor/Major Image: Illusions are not mind-affecting, and are in fact extra effective against mindless creatures who aren't intelligent enough to tell that the ghost they are fighting isn't really there.

ericgrau
2010-09-17, 11:20 PM
Well enchantments are situational and illusion takes a lot of cleverness to pull off, but... ya it could work. Illusions could be your bread and butter b/c they're more all-purpose with enchantments added on top for the right occasions. A lesser rod of extend spell could help a great deal with a lot of the illusions that are concentration + X rounds for only 3,000 gp.

Frosty
2010-09-18, 12:11 AM
You're not going beyond fifth level you say? Beguiler >>>>>>>> Sorcerer in this case. The Beguiler's 1st through 4th level spells are freaking insanely awesome. No way the sorcerer can hope to compete in terms of versatility and survivability in those early levels. You basically get all the best save or sucks, some no-save-just-sucks, and even a few handy buffs. This all built into a chassis of a INTELLIGENCE-based spontaneous caster. And 6+Int skill points with a GOOD skill list. You will never feel useless. d6 HD and Light Armor proficiency also helps. Never cast Mage Armor again.

Gabe the Bard
2010-09-28, 08:36 AM
Normally, I would recommend a bard, but since you're not going above 5th level, I would suggest a Gnome Illusionist with racial substitution levels from Races of the Stone. You'll be able to cast a bunch of illusion spells at a lower spell level. Silent Image and Ventriloquism will be 0-level spells, Minor Image will be a 1st-level spell, and so forth.