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View Full Version : Summon: Disposable Minions?



ShneekeyTheLost
2010-09-18, 06:00 PM
Okay, I'm trying to do something to prove a point to one of my gaming buddies. You see, he is of the impression that the 'bag of puppies' trick is not broken because there is a finite number of puppies you can possess at any given time, and when you run out of them, you suddenly have 'horribly nerfed yourself by being unable to take advantage of your only trick'.

So I'm trying to point out the fallacy by building a character who can, in fact, summing lots of cheap, disposable minions to use the trick with. Every round.

For those of you not familiar with the 'bag of puppies' trick, allow me to explain:

The Prestige Class War Mind (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/warMind.htm) has a really nifty ability at 5th level called Sweeping Strike (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/warMind.htm#sweepingStrike).

For those of you who do not imediately see the problem, allow me to elucidate.

So you have a character with a weapon that has a long reach (spiked chain is typically used), who generally is at least of Large size when in combat (Expansion is the general method, due to psionics already being in the build) to have a semi-obscene reach. This character also has Cleave and Great Cleave, and a bag of helpless, cute puppies.

He then proceeds to dump said bag of puppies in front of his erstwhile opponent (either via Unseen Servant, Hand of the Mage item, or other method), then come in swinging.

He swings, not at his Target, but at a puppy. Which dies a horrible, horrible death. Poor thing. With Sweeping Strike, he gets a free shot at his Target. With Great Cleave, he gets a free attack, which he uses on another puppy. Rinse, wash, and repeat until Target is a greasy stain.

So now I'm trying to create a build which not only abuses this loophole, but also is able to produce puppy-esque minions to die horribly for the Cause.

Here's the limitations:

No Dragon Mag and no web-published source. In fact, try to stick to Core + Completes + ToB.
BoED/BoVD are banned, other sources may or may not be accepted, but not guaranteed
No Chicken Infested. Yes, this is technically already covered by the first limitations, but after I showed him an infinite damage loop with chicken infested, it was explicitly prohibited in it's own right.
No Leadership. Minions summoning minions for you doesn't work. Although a Conjurer cohort with Rapid Summoning, Quicken Spell, Empower Spell (1d4+1*1.5 minions per spell!), and Imbue Familiar with Spell-Like Ability would be able to crank out sufficient minions as to prove the concept, our group typically bans Leadership due to cheese allergies all around.

Bonus points for:

*Spamibility. If you can do this all day long, this scores you major kudo points
*Sticking to Core + Completes + ToB

Seffbasilisk
2010-09-18, 07:34 PM
Druids can actually be cracked out as pretty potent summoners, but...that's a bit much.

Normally for disposable minions, I use the Reserve Feat Summon Elemental, but that only gives you one.

Head's up though? The loop breaks if you miss. So even if your attack bonus is enough to hit the puppy or whatever every single time, you still have a 5% chance of missing.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-09-18, 08:17 PM
Druids can actually be cracked out as pretty potent summoners, but...that's a bit much.

Normally for disposable minions, I use the Reserve Feat Summon Elemental, but that only gives you one.

Head's up though? The loop breaks if you miss. So even if your attack bonus is enough to hit the puppy or whatever every single time, you still have a 5% chance of missing.

Eh, there's a hard-cap on how many minions per turn I can use anyways, due to the volume involved. Even with a 20' reach, I'm still looking at a finite number of squares I can fill with minions. I was wanting to, say, increase my number of attacks by a factor of 10 or so.

It would require at least Summon Nature's Ally 3 to be able to summon 1d4+1 critters on the SNA1's list. Maybe a one level dip in Cloistered Cleric (get Knowledge Devotion in the bargain for extra damage) and DMM Quicken Spell? Then due to Druid5 and Wildshape, you can go directly to MoMF and from there Warmind...

That might actually work...